Jose “Pepe” Rojas

Interview with Jose "Pepe" Rojas

by Callie Carlstrom and Westley Smith

Summary
Jose “Pepe” Rojas was born in Santiago, Chile and lived as an only child with his mother. He grew up in a dysfunctional family. His father, while very smart and artistic, was lazy, drunk, and violent. He left Pepe’s and his mother when was five years old. His fondest memories of Chile were playing football with his many friends. As a young adult, Pepe became heavily involved in drugs. However, his whole life turned around when one of his friends invited him to attend church. At first, Pepe had no interest in church but reluctantly decided to attend after his friend’s invitations. It is here, where he discovered the power of Jesus and Christianity. He later met a woman in the church who would become his wife, and they went on to have three kids. Due to his love for justice, he proceeded to become a missionary and moved to Brazil to receive training with Youth with a mission, Y1. He worked with them for many years, moving to Africa, Honduras, and finally the United States. He currently is a pastor at Grace Covenant Church and continues to preach his message of acceptance

A Citizen of the World

Pepe Rojas spent a significant amount of his life outside of the US before finally migrating here. Pepe has traveled a significant amount already and lived in numerous places and countries. This lifestyle of frequent traveling makes it so that he would not have any apprehensions about traveling far away, and possibly would be aiming to travel somewhere regardless, if not the US.  As a result of this, he doesn’t have any social ties that are holding him down into any one place. Pepe does feel like he’s a part of this country, but he also doesn’t feel bound to a specific country either. In that way, yes, he does seem to feel a part of America, but no, he doesn’t seem to feel “American” any more or less than he feels Brazilian, African, etc. despite this, he has mentioned applying for citizenship back in Denver many years ago, so he has likely gone through the naturalization process and is an American citizen. When asked what he felt that he left behind in Chile and Brazil he replied:

…because I was living in so many places, I didn’t have the, the strong connection with the country. I was, I feel like I’m I am a citizen of the world… Some people are very connected with the country and my food, my bread, or the weather or I am not, I’m completely different.

Giving Back

The factor of his immigration was an invitation to be a part of a conference called Mercy Ministries. After becoming a Christian, he wanted to train to be a missionary and volunteer in humanitarian efforts throughout the world. His involvement with youth with a mission, aka Y1, led him to aid in Equatorial Guinea, Africa. The organization that was organizing this conference considered his work to be a “mercy ministry”. They were curious about his ministry, so he flew to Tyler, Texas to meet with them. This was his first exposure to America.

Eight years later, after finishing aid in a relief effort for Honduras resulting from a hurricane, he and his family believed it was time to move on. How they actually made the decision to come to the US not a normal pull factor compared to what we learned in class. When asked why he came to the US he replied,  “we asked to the Lord ‘what is next, where we go’? And we feel that the Lord says go to the United States” This just contributes to what makes Pepe’s immigrant experience so unique. 

A Man of Faith

The primary pull source of his migration to the US was the international Christian mercy ministry known as Y1. He had been working with Y1 in various countries for very many years at this point. He knew that he could move to the US with Y1 as he has done in many of these other countries. Y1 would provide him and his family housing through an affiliated organization. This organization was well acquainted with Y1, and provided housing to him and other members for a very low cost. In summation, his housing was provided to him because of the very good relationship between Y1 and this housing org. He also had a pre-established social group through Y1. He had made friends through volunteering, and some of those members he had befriended lived in the United States. His friends helped support him while he was volunteering in the US and could not be paid a salary. He also had Y1 as a whole, as a social group. It could act as a community, or common ground with other members he did not know, that was already established in the US. He had many resources to get him to the US, and to establish himself with, as well as a social group. The only hindrance was the lengthy process of acquiring permanent residence, and his not having a salary.

Integration

Another important concept to discuss and reflect against this interview is an immigrant’s experience with integration. Pepe’s experience was slightly alternative to the norm in this category as well. He didn’t have to navigate a new labor market. Because he was brought here through Y1, he was given an occupation as a volunteer, eventually as a pastor in the church, and provided assistance in various forms, including through friends and acquaintances he had made years earlier who had since moved to America. He also didn’t face as much discrimination as others around him due to his good English and position in the church, which I’ll go into later.

What was similar about Pepe’s immigration to the immigrant experience we learned in class was his struggle for a visa. He could not yet legally be paid a salary on account of him not having a permanent residence. He applied for a religious worker visa, being told the process would take six months. It ended up taking about five years. This exemplifies that coming to the US for any type of reason can be a long and difficult process.

Reception in America

He received a considerably warm reception when he moved here. There were a few contexts of reception that lent favorably to this. One, he settled in Denver, Colorado. In Denver, the public has both a positive perception and attitude towards Hispanic people. In Denver, there’s a large Latino influence. For example; the largest Cinco de Mayo festival in the country is held there.  People have embraced the Latino community there, so there’s much less hostility or aloofness. When moving to Harrisonburg it was definitely a different environment but similar to the O’Neil and Tienda study, he didn’t notice an overwhelming amount of hostitially. Just like this study, this is mostly likely due to the influx in the immigrant population in recent years..

Another context is that he was living in a community with other immigrants here to work for the church. They shared similar experiences and were either in the same process of integrating or had already integrated previously and he could learn from them. They were all from many different countries, likely including Chile, so they could learn from each other’s individual cultures, while not feeling like the odd one out since they’re all from separate countries. He is already relating with other immigrants now, as well as friends he had made in the past who are native to America, and the local population was very accepting of Latinos.

The third context of reception, which I noted before, is that he spoke English. Pepe learned English in high school, and had been speaking it regularly for years now in other countries he was aiding in. This bridges the initial language barrier between many immigrants and the locals. He was now largely involved on social services as well, with humanitarian efforts from the organization he’s a member of. A question that often pops up is how immigrants experience political incorporation when integrating. In Pepe’s case, it didn’t seem to change his view any. He attributes this to his having a very high sense of justice already before coming to America, and this is likely to be true, considering that he has based so much of his life around traveling the world to give aid to the poor and the wronged.

Immigrant Harrisonburg

It sounded like integration for him was a bit more challenging than in Denver. Harrisonburg did not have the strong Latino culture or acceptance that Denver had. Pepe said that when he “moved to Harrisonburg, Virginia. The people here is very polite, very polite, but in some way  in my opinion very hypocritical. They don’t express really, they, they kind of smile at you, but they are no smiling really” Pepe recalled being surprised that Harrisonburg is known to some by the motto of being “the friendly city” :

There is people, really, there is people who really, really, really embrace others, but there is other people that are still, no. And I understand. This, this is, confederate land. One of the things that when when, that I noticed when, when, when we moved four years ago here, here in this place, I saw more confederate flag than any ever in my 14 years before.

Fortunately, there was already a large network of Latino people in Harrisonburg, and since he was involved with the Latino church, he was very directly plugged into it. Zarragh noted the influx in the Hispanic population in Latinization of the Valley and Pepe even noted a difference in the 4 years he’s been here. He even mentions a neighborhood that he calls the “United Nation, because there is people from everywhere…United States is a melting pot and like I say to other people before, this melting pot-pot is changing from White to Brown”

This gave Pepe something to learn back on. He make friends very easily so this has likely helped a lot as well. Unfortunately, he still has experienced some discrimination. He recalled that he had “suffer some discrimination. Yeah. Yeah. Um, maybe less than other people, um, because [he] am no the typical Latino. [He’s] tall, [he] can speak English.”

Struggles

Other than mentioning it prior, he didn’t give much detail on what sort of discrimination, maybe because he didn’t want to dwell on it too much, or maybe because we didn’t ask for him to elaborate. He did, however, give one specific example, to give us an idea of what he experiences:

“No long time ago I was in a restaurant with my family and people was coming later than us and they was served first. For example. And I notice! They came 20 minutes later than us and they serve to them. Th-Th-That’s to give you some ideas and other, and other things too. But yeah, it’s no easy. Has no easy.”

 

Creating Change

He visits his home country about once a year. He goes with a dentist from his congregation who wants to help the poor and needy by providing free dental services. So, Pepe’s motivations for going back seem to be more about doing humanitarian work and less about visiting for pleasure.

Pepe made mention of how so many people have been saying to “make America white again”, but that is not possible. He says with all of the increases in Hispanic yearly birth rates and major growth of the Hispanic population, America is becoming brown. He says that this is inevitable and a turning point.  The answer to this isn’t intolerance but to embrace and accept that “everyone will be a minority”. This can be interpreted as commentary toward Hispanics being larger members of US society going forward and that he likely feels a part of this society through association.

Conclusion

Pepe Rojas immigrated, worked as a volunteer through an organization while applying for citizenship, got to know a community of people, many of them immigrants, with values similar to his own, and built a network of many friends. He’s since moved here to Harrisonburg four years ago and is a firmly established member of its community.  He’s been here in the United States for fourteen years now. His story is one of trial and self-actualization. He’s an enriched person, having lived a lifetime of culturally enriching experiences. Naturally, someone like this is difficult to sum up in so few words. Here stands a person with charity. He has placed himself in so many different countries and cultures, going through this same process of integrating into their communities, with so many social, cultural, and bureaucratic hoops involved, all for the purpose of giving them aid, sending a message, or making a connection.

 

Westley: Okay, so what is your name?
Jose Pepe Rojas: My name is Jose Pepe Rojas
W: when and where were you born?
J: I born in Chile. Santiago, Chile
W: Uh, can you tell me about your family, like mom, Dad, siblings, etc.?
J: Yeah, Sure. Um, I’m coming from a very (pause) eh dysfunctional family. My mother wasn’t a hard worker. My father was a lazy guy, very smart, very artistic, very gifted with the hands, but very lazy and plus very violent and drunk and uh I don’t have brothers or sister. Um, and um, my father leave home when I was five years old (pause) and, he never come back.
W: Um. tell us a little about Chile, like, what was your life like in Chile growing up?
J: Um, uh Chile is, it’s a very, very unique place is, is, is in the continent, but in some ways like an island. Uh, we have the Pacific Ocean from one side and the Andes cross all the country in the other. That means we are very, in some way very isolated in some way, uh physical. It’s a very it’s a very rich country in natural resources. Um, uh, we produce a lot of fruits and veggies. Uh, the country is very diverse from north to south. North is the driest desert on the world, is in the north. And the center is like, um, like California in some ways, very fruitful. South, is, is a rainy, but it’s still a lot of agriculture. Um, a lot of animals, um, all the milk in the products, the, the, the area produces in south of the country and in the corner this part is very close to the Antarctic and it’s very, very, very diverse. Very long too. If you put the country here in the United States, let’s see, it’s something like from New York to California maybe that long.
W: Wow
Callie: Wow
J: but very, very skinny. Very, very skinny. And um, right now we have- the population is growing, maybe 17, 18 millions around that? Yeah.
W: What were your, like, fondest memories from Chile?
J: Um, um, pause), let’s see. I think soccer. So sorry, but it’s football, okay? Football, football.
W: (laughs)
C: (laughs)
J: Like (if) I say Soccer, I can offend some of my, uh, people. Yeah, football. That was the most fun thing. My friends too. I grew up with a lot of friends. I make a lot of crazy things when I was young.
W: Mm
J: Um, yeah, very good friends and so good, good memories.
W: That’s excellent. (pause) Uh, what kinds of crazy things, do you mean?
W: (laughs)
C: (laughs)
J: There is some that I can give you. An other are off the record obviously,
W: (laughs)
C: (laughs) Yeah?
J: but um, (pause) um, I was in many trouble in my young age. I was involved in drugs. I was involved in drinking. Crazy, uh, years of my life. I didn’t make nothing I just drugged
W: Hmm
J: and that was, wasn’t good, wasn’t good. I think, (pause) um, I make so many things so bad, that, just to give you (chuckle) an idea, when, in my country and that years in the seventies, the go to the army was mandatory. Mandatory. Well, I was in the army for maybe a week and they kicked me out
W: Oh.
C: Oh my goodness
J: because I wasn’t a (pause) good person.
C: Wow
J:In the army, they, they don’t, they don’t even think, “well, we can fix this man.” They kicked me out (snaps fingers) “get out.” Yeah. Many different things, not doing well.
C: That’s crazy
J: that time, bad decisions.
W: Wow, Um, how old were you when you decided to immigrate out of Chile?
J: Um, how old was, um, (long pause) I leave for the first time with my family in 86. I was 31 years old.
W: Okay
J: That was the first time I moved with my family, from Chile to Brazil
W: Mhm
J: That I, I have been living in many, many different countries and um, but that was the first time. 31 years old, I moved with my wife and my three kids to Brazil.
W: So you grew up in Chile, you and your mom and umm, you liked to play soccer a lot, had a lot of crazy years going when you were young
J: Yeah
W: and then, uh, could you tell us about settling down and having a family in Chile?
J: Yeah. Um, well I, (pause) I, I became Christian. Um, and that was really for me, that was my salvation because I was (pause) having too much drugs in my body that I was a little crazy. I was turning crazy. Um, even without drugs I have, I have, (in the past during this time in his life) I been hallucinating and all the time that was my mother was thinking, “I need to take you to the psychiatric because I can’t manage you.” Eh, I can, I don’t live with my father, I don’t have brothers. I live with my mother and my grandma (pause) and I was crazy. And, one friend of mine invited me to the church. At the beginning I thought, no way, no way jose, I’m not going to the church. You are crazy.
W: (laughs)
C: (laughs)
J: What? Jesus and uh what? No, no way. But at the end, I went with my friend, with several other friends, all these guy was doing exactly the same thing: drugs. We went to the church, in my case I became Christian. And that was my (pause) salvation really. In all sense, okay? My spiritual, my life, everything, and I meet this sweet girl at the church.
W: Mhm. At the church
J: Yeah. And (pause) I married with her and everything changed.
W: Wow. All because of the church
J: Because of the church. Yeah. All because of the church.
C: That’s crazy
W: Do you remember what….like say, you said, “oh, I don’t know about this”. Like, do you remember what the turning point was where you were like, “wow, I’m going to become Christian now.”?
J: Yeah. Um, the, the turning point was during this, one of the first service, first or second service that I attend the church, the pastor make an invitation to people to come to the altar. And, the idea was pray for them and that is all. But, because I was very macho, I don’t want to go to the front, I don’t want it to be there. And the pastor says in the moment, I know that someone here in this building don’t desire to come to the front. Let me tell you something. You can pray wherever you are. You can pray. You can pray in the bus, walking, in the bathroom, sit(ting) in the toilet. You can pray. And I was thinking “Okay, when I leave from the service, from the church, from the point of the church to my house takes maybe 50 minutes, one hour, by bus. And I will sit.” I remember very clear by the window and all my friends over here making noise. You know, guys, 17 years old, 19, 20, crazy. I was there and I looked out the window, say a small prayer, very simple. I say “I don’t know you, but the guy in the church says that if I talked to you, you can help me and I need your help. I’m open.”
J: That was all. Nothing more, nothing- (mimics heavenly noises and says “hallelujah!”)
W: (laughs)
C: (laughs)
J: No, nothing like that. Nothing. Very, very, very simple. When I (pause) when I arrived to my place, just get out of the bus, I was completely different. At the point when I arrived home, I opened, I live in an apartment. I opened the door of my apartment and my mom looked at me and she says “Now, What kind of drug is this one?”
C. (Gasp)
J: And I say “Mom. It’s no drugs. Nothing. I have, I’m clean.” “And what’s going on?” I say “Well, I’m a Christian.” “What?!” “I’m a Christian.” Everything changed.
W: Was your mom and grandma, were they Christian or?
J: My grandma. My mom was (pause) in French como si como sa.
W: Mm.
J: I don’t know, but yeah, that was my turning point.
W: Wow. That’s really powerful.
C: So, you said you first moved from Chile to Brazil.
J: Yeah
C: What was your experience there?
J: Um, uh, I was pursuing (to) be a missionary. I was looking to do, um, to do something. I, I, I(pause) I want to help others, but I recognize that I need some training in order to do this. And this was the reason. We moved to Brazil to get training with an organization called youth with a mission. Y1. And I met with them and I spend, we spend with my wife maybe 14 years of our life (pause) working with them.
C: So when did you eventually come to the US?
J: Um, I came several times. Um, I came-the first time was in 1992. At that time I was living in Equatorial Guinea, Africa and I received an invitation to be part of an uh, conference called mercy ministries. And because I was working in Africa and living in Africa, they consider what we were doing there was, um, mercy ministry. They want to know what kind of ministry was this, and I flew to Texas. Tyler, Texas. That was my first time. Um, later came other time, and at the end, um, in 1999, I moved from my family, from Chile to Honduras. And at the end of October, 1998, there was a big hurricane who almost destroy(ed) Central America and Honduras. Honduras was the, the worst country in Central America. And I went to visit what, what, what was the reality of the country, come back to Chile, share with my wife and my kids, and take the decision, “lets move to Honduras and help to the people in Honduras”. And I live in Honduras for two years. 1999 until 2000. At the end of 2000, we built 52 houses for people who lost everything during the hurricane. And when we finished the project there, we asked to the Lord “what is next, where we go”? And we feel that the Lord says go to the United States. And we moved to Denver, Colorado and we spent (pause) lets see, 14 years in Denver and four years ago I moved, we moved to Virginia.

W: What was the process of getting to the US. Like did you have to, like how, how hard was it to become an, uh, I guess, did you have like your, uh, like your green card or umm?

J: Yeah, permanent residence. Is- that is a long story.
W: Okay
J: But I try, I will try to make the short version. Um, I was, um, pastor in a church in, in Colorado, and with the (pause) being under the cover of this church, I get my religious worker visa, but in order to get that green card, I went, I moved to Chile to get the, the visa in Chile in order to get this work permit. It’s a long process, it’s a very expensive process. Very, very complicated. Very bureaucratic. Yeah. Takes years and thousands and thousands of dollars to get a uh, work permit.
W: One -just a simple question. How many years do you think that took you to uh, get the permit?

J: Um, It’s very interesting (pause) because they say for get the permanent residents, um take or the permit. I don’t remember right now. What is the permit or the um, whatever. That one of the things take in the law, If you read the law for a religious worker visa, they say, immigration says these things take six months. Well, in my case, take I think four or five years to get (permit)
W: Wow. That’s a long time

J: Take a long time. Take a long time.

W: What do you feel like you, uh, left behind in uh, Chile and Brazil and such. Did you feel like (when) you moved to the US, did you have to say goodbye to any family or any people or anything?

J: Yeah. Well, my family, my particular family is very small. Um at this moment I have just one cousin. He’s third or fourth grade, I don’t have any relationship. Was wasn’t very difficult for me. In other way too um, I, because I was living in so many places, um, I didn’t have the, the strong connection with the country. I was, I feel like I’m I am a citizen of the world. I am no, you know. Yeah. Some people are very connected with the country and my food, my bread, or the weather or I am not, I’m completely different. No.
W: That’s very freeing.
J: Yeah. Yeah.

W: Um, was there anyone in here in America waiting for you when you got here?
J: To what?
W: What- was anyone here in America that you knew, that was like waiting for you here?

J: Yeah. I have some friends, some friends. Especially in my years working with Y1, youth with a mission. I meet a lot of people. I met a lot of people in Chile. I met a lot of people when I live in, in, in, in Africa and um, I’m very, I am a very social person and I can make friends (snaps fingers) very easily. And when I came here, yeah, I got some of my good friends.
W: Um, when did you start learning English?
J: Um, I started learning English in high school in Chile. Its its its mandatory, its very basic, but for me it was good. I learned, I learned easily.
W: Did you start really using it like when you left Chile or was it more like when you came to the US you started really using it?

J: Oh No. During my years living in Chile and work, working with Y1, I use a lot of English to communicate with the other missionaries and yeah.

W: Um, when you got here to the US like uh, (pause) setting up, what was your first job, like how’d you start making money?

J: Uh, um, my, my first job here in United State was like a volunteer because I couldn’t, I couldn’t work. They, they don’t allow legally. Um, and, and I’ve worked with the same organization that I work at in Honduras. They move the office, uh, the headquarters from Hawaii to Denver, Colorado and I work it with them like a volunteer. That means I have some support. I didn’t get salary, but I have some support from friends. That, that was my first thing; friends who support me.
W: So when you moved, did you, um, (pause) did you feel like there was like a community of like a supportive community around you? Maybe of uh, a lot of Chileans or say people who are also immigrants kind of?
J: Yeah. I-I live in an organization. This wasn’t a housing program
W: Oh.
J: for people of low income. And very interesting, many, many of them were Christian, but many of them too was foreigners like me. Um, there was Ukrainians, Russians, a lot of Russians, um, Africans, um, people, a few people from Europe I remember very well. And these organizations provided housing but in very, very low cost and that was very, very affordable for us. And the other thing, too is, these organization was- have a very good connection with Y1. And there was a Y1 based in Arbada. What is northeast or northwest Denver, and they have a very good relationship. And when they know I was coming, they helped me.
W: That’s great.
J: Yeah.
C: It’s nice that you had like, a lot of communities everywhere.
J: Yeah, Yeah. A lot of people was there trying to help.
W: Uh, what did you do for recreation in uh, when you moved, I guess?
J: Umm, recreation, let’s see.
W: Like for fun, you know?
J: Yeah, yeah
W: Yeah
J: Yeah. Um, you know, I spent a lot of time at the church, with people. Um, again, I’m very social and, um, our home was always open with- for people. Um, we don’t have any problem if somebody came *knock knock knock*s (knocks on desk with hand) and knocked the door without invitation. You are very welcome. And if we are, if that was during lunchtime, “Oh, come on! Let’s move! Move the plates and you are welcome.” You know? Um, I love that thing. I love, I love movies. I love um, uh I’m very sport guy. I love (to) play. I’m very competitive. Um, if you invite me to play tennis, even when I’m no good, I will try to beat you.
W: (laughs)
C: (laughs)
W: I like that.
J: Yeah.
C: Yeah um, So you said you’ve uh, held like a lot of jobs, um, based on Y1? Is that what you’re saying?
J: Yeah
C: Um, so is that what brought you to Virginia?
J: Yeah. Well, um, let me go a little bit, a little back.
C: Yeah.
J: Um, I get my green card
C: Ok
J: in Denver, Colorado and I started my application for my citizenship. Okay? Um, some of my, two of my kids was living very close to here, one was living- is living in, in, in Baltimore, in an area of Baltimore, and at that time my oldest daughter was living in dc. And even when we have a nice church, a lot of friends, a lot of friends, um, something was missing, and was my family. Um, my youngest daughter at that time was living in India, uh, with her husband and I was- we were again, a nice place, very good friends, but the family was very important for me and for my wife too. Um, we want(ed) to be close with our grandkids. My grandfather was a very, very special man for me, um, because I didn’t have a father. He became in some way my father and always have in my heart the desire to replicate in some way with my grandkids, what I have received with my grandpa. And, and we moved here. We found that this church was looking for another Latino pastor to take care of the Latino church, the Latino congregation and, and we move and we connected very well and I’m here
C: that’s great. (clears throat) So did you find it was easy to acclimate to Harrisonburg or the US in general, like did you have any troubles with it or…
J: What kind of trouble?
C: Um, anything like uh, getting used to the weather as you said earlier or like discrimination-
W: Or culture shock.
J: Ohh
C: Culture?
J: Oh, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. I think if, if, um, if I look back to Colorado, Denver, Colorado and um, Harrisonburg, Virginia is, is, is, is a big difference.
C: Umhm
J: Big difference. Um, very broadly the uh, Colorado have a big Latino influence, a big, big Latino influence and the people are, if, if we can say more liberal uh, sometimes when, when we use the term liberal is, is the connotation is little. I don’t know little different.
C: Yeah
J: Maybe I can say is more humanitarian,
C: Mmhm
J: maybe sounds much, much better. Um, uh, for example, just to give an example, Cinco de Mayo, uh one of the biggest Cinco de Mayo celebration in United States is in Denver, Colorado.
C: Oh!
W: Wow
C: I didn’t know that
J: Yeah
W: Me neither
J: is huge.
C: (laughs)
J: Huge. Why? Because the white American has embrace, the Latino community in-in a very good manner, very good way.
C: Yeah
J: I moved to uh, Harrisonburg, Virginia. Uh, the people here is very polite, very polite, but in some way in my opinion very hypocritical. They don’t express really, they, they kind of smile at you, but they are no smiling really.
C: Yeah
J: Um, I have uh suffer some discrimination. Yeah. Yeah. Um, maybe less than other people, um, because I am no the typical Latino. I am, I’m tall, I can speak English
C: Mmhm
J: maybe not very well
C: (laughs)
W: (laughs) What?
J: but I can speak.
C: You speak fine.
W: Yeah, it’s perfectly fine.
J: with a little strange accent, but I can do this. But I still I suffer some, some discrimination. Just to give you some ideas. No, no, no, some, no long time ago I was in a restaurant with my family and people was coming later than us and they was served first. For example. And I notice! They came 20 minutes later than us
C: Mmhm
J: and they serve to them. Th-Th-That’s to give you some ideas and other, and other things too. But yeah, it’s no easy. Has no easy. It’s very interesting that my senior pastor, my pastor says one of the first time, you know what the motto of Harrisonburg, the friendly, the friendly city?
C & W: Mmhm
J: Uhhh, I don’t know.
C: (laughs)
J: I don’t know.
C: Yeah
J: I have some. There is people, really, there is people who really, really, really embrace others, but there is other people that are still, no. And I understand. This, this is, uh, confederate land. One of the things that when when, that I noticed when, when, when we moved four years ago here, here in this place, I saw more confederate flag than any ever in my 14 years before.
C: Has living here made you more interested in politics? Or have you always…
J: No, no,
C:MUmhm
J: It’s nothing new for me.
C: Ok.
J: Um, no. Um, the, the reason is (clears throat) for me, I, I have a high sense of justice.
C: Mmhm
J: Um, could be from when I was a child. Uh, the situation that I suffer with my father. I don’t know. Th-There, I was very poor too. I live in a very, very poor neighborhood. I grew up in a poor neighborhood and my family was the poorest of the poor. And, I don’t know too if maybe it’s a mix of things. My mother in law, um, she was a poor lady, but years before she was a very well educated, living in one of the most richest families in Santiago. She lost everything. And, and she have a heart for the community and I learned, I learned something from her. Is, is nothing new.
C: Mmhm
J: I love justice. I and, yeah.
C: So did you feel, um, moving to Harrisburg you said it was very different. Do you still feel that your received okay? Did, did you find um, Harrisonburg had a nice community? Um like of immigrants and stuff like that?
J: Yeah, I think, um, things are changing.
C: Mmhm
J: We have, uh, Sal Romero in, in the city council.
C: Yeah.
K: We have an African American lady too.
C: Mmhm
J: Um, back of, back of our church here. We have a, a, a neighborhood that I call United Nation.
W: (laughs) I like that.
J: Um, because there is people from everywhere.
C: Yeah
J: Um, these, uh, let me put this in this way. United States is a melting pot and like I say to other people before, this melting pot-pot is changing from White to Brown. And this is something that is irreversible, is, is, is not possible when somebody says, uh, “Make white America again”. Sorry, no.
C: (laughs) Yeah.
J: It’s, it’s not going to happen. Can be happen if you are take the guns, the weapons and create on a, I don’t what, um, but it’s not going to happen. Really because this melting pot is changing, is changing to be more brown than white. Um, if I remember well four or five years ago, I go in this country for first time in the history, more Latino babies born in one year than white babies. That, that is, pay attention of this. This is something that is, it’s not turning point, is. And, we need to live with that.
C: Yeah.
J: We need to accept this. This is the reality.
C: Yeah
J: Even they close the door. If they shut the door completely. Still with the people living here, the number says, and I’m not saying this, I’m very bad mathematic, for math, I’m terrible. But the people who knows says maybe 2030, maybe 2035, there is no going to be majority in the country. Everybody’s going to be minority.
C: I’ve heard of predictions even as early by 2020.
J: Look at that.
C: Mmhm
W: Mmhm
J: Very soon.
C: Yeah, very soon
J: Very soon. That means-
W: Exponential growth, you know?
J: Yeah. The thing is, with that reality, are you continue it fighting against other who are- no man! This is the time to start to embrace because we are going to be here in the same boat. All of us.
C: Umhm. Yeah. Would you say that your, your overall experience in the United States has been a positive one then?
J: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
C: That’s good to hear.
J: Very positive.
C: Um, what has been the most difficult part about living in Harrisburg- like Harrisonburg specifically? Is it because you didn’t have, don’t have like that big of a culture as you did in Denver or is it something else?
J: You know what I, again, I don’t have.I think the most difficult thing for me is when I interact with people who, who have a different opinion about me just because the color of my skin or my face or my, uh, my broken and poor English. That is the only thing. That is my biggest conflict. My… But it’s, it’s no me too, it’s them. Because if they know me, maybe very probably they can find in me a good guy and a very good friend. I’m, no, uh, yeah.
C: That’s nice to hear. Um, so what has it been like working, um, at this like church? Um, do you find that because you’re in a real- like involved in the religious community, people have been more accepting? Um, or what has just been your over-overall experience?
J: Yeah, I think ,yeah. Um, it’s very interesting here in this country. Many people call themselves Christian,
C: Mmhm
J: but really, uh, many of them are no really good Christian. They are, I don’t know, fans?
C & W: (Laugh)
W: They go to church on Sunday, fair weather fans, yeah.
J: Yeah, but Christian, no. But, still they have some respect when somebody says I am a pastor and um, yeah, you know, working in this church, yeah.
C: It’s good to hear that. Um, would you say that being where you are, like involved with this covenant has given you a different perspective on Harrisonburg and then maybe other people um involved in like different situations or no?
J: Well, uh, the good thing for me is to be in this church is, is this is a church who is embracing every single one. We’re no making any difference. Um, the Latino Church of this con- this church has been here for 31, 32 years. This was the first Latino church in all Harrisonburg. This one.
C: Oh my goodness.
J: That was the first one.
W: Wow
J: That speak very strong. That here, the people of this church have a commitment with this group of people even when they don’t speak language, their language. Some, some of them are undocumented. I don’t mention illegal because I don’t like that word,
C & W: Mmhm
J: but undocumented.
C: Mmhm
J: They are here and they are welcome here in this church. Um, we, some of our series, we, we bridge by series for four weeks, six week, whenever. I remember we put a banner outside with the new series. We put the title of this series in English and in Spanish and Arabic for our community over here. Um, when we open, when we have programs here, like, uh, harvest, party, uh, Easter, we have all kinds of people here. Muslim, Christian, non Christian, non Muslim. Everybody’s welcome. I love that because for me this is the, this is the church is the best platform to speak to others about how we can work, how we can live, how is the way to love other people. This is the best, the best way.
C: It’s a really good message, your- you’re spreading.
J: Yeah
W: I agree, yeah
C: That you should be accepting everyone. Um, so have you been, visited Chile ever since you’ve moved to the United States?
J: Yeah, yeah.
C: Do you go back often?
J: (clears throat) I go to Chile almost every year,
C: That’s nice
J: (clears throat) every year, um, um, in the last three years, four years, March is the time when we go to Chile, um, there is a dentist here in the city, very well known is, uh, Smile Makers.
C: Mmhm
J: The doctor is Greg Johnson and he’s part of our congregation. And when I arrived here, he says to me, I want to go back to Chile. I have been in Chile many times and I want to go back to Chile, but I want to go to another place I’m going to go to Puerto Montt, is a city maybe 1200 kilometer from Santiago, and I want to take a dental team and go and help poor people in, in that area. And we have been doing this for the last four years. Um, if I put the number I can say thousands of people has been blessed by Greg and other dentists, other, uh, hygienist helping, cleaning fillings. Everything. And it’s free.
C: (whispers) That’s awesome.
J: And in the last two years, um, we add a construction team because the church is building a new facility for children. This is going to be an hogar, a house for children, little one, and we built this past march, we built one of the unit is going to be a big facility with four or five buildings. We built one in March and we are thinking to go back now in next year, February with another team. Yeah. I go back to Chile. Uh, but always with the, I’m not going to, I’m not going to vacation. We go to serve, to help people.
C: Do you specifically go in March and February for a reason? Is it like the best time…?
J: Um, it, that was the best time for, for Greg,
W: Oh
C: Got it.
J: um, because he have a perfect window of time. Ten days, 12 days. That was the reason.
C: Got it
J: And for the construction team, uh, I’m thinking in February or Mar- March is a good time because there’s no raining.
C: Ohh
W: Hmm
J: Puerto Montt is, if you take away, uh, from the equator line to the south, it’s the same distance from the equator to north. That means it’s going to be Oregon or Washington state.
C: Mmhm
J: That means a lot of rain and the window of time work best for construction is during summer.
C: Got it, I see. So, do you, um, think that any of your views or values, um, about living in the US has changed since you’ve been living here or or did you like have a different view before you moved here?
J: Um, no, I think it’s- (pause) well, let’s see. I moved from, from, uh, Honduras. I always lived in countries of the third world. Coming to the United States, yeah, you find another dynamic. You find another way. Um, uh, for example, Latinos, we are masters of improvisation. Uh, Americans: Planification. Is making plans. We don’t make no plans, but we are very good improvising, um, in coming to this country and put together both. I enriched my life because I’m good in this, but this other thing is good too.
C: Yeah, It’s cool to see how those mesh
W: Interesting.
C: So, so far, what would you view as the happiest or best time in your life?
J: Being with my kids.
C: Anytime, that that is?
J: Uh, yeah, for me is the best, I think. I have three kids. Um, it’s not easy to meet together. Like I said before, the youngest years ago was living in India. Uh, she moved from India, from Kolkata, India to Seattle. Um, later, the oldest who was living in D.C, she moved to Luxembourg.
C: Oh my.
J: and is quite complicated
C: (laughs)
J: to meet together, but when I meet together is, is heaven for me. I love it. I love to be with my kids. I love to be with my grandkids.
C: Mmhm
J: I have um, uh, we have a very good communication with our kids. We talk even when they live very far. We talk almost every day with them. Yeah.
C: That’s great.
J: How many times you talked with your parents?
C: Definitely not as much as that (laughs)
J: No?
C: No.
W: And you?
W: Uh, somewhere in like every three or four days, you know.
J: Yeah
C: Mmhm
W: (I) Just try to do that every day
J: Yeah
W: or something
J: Yeah. Good.
C: It’s probably cause we take for granted how close we are to our family.
W: Yeah, you’re right.
J: Yeah. Okay!
C: (Laughs)
J: Next question.
C: Um, the last question I have is, um, what historical events have had an impact on your life?
J: Say again.
C: What historical events have had an impact on your life? So I think specifics, so you mentioned the hurricane, um in Honduras, that had a big impact. Has anything else had a really big impact on your life?
J: I can think a couple of things. Um, first of all, I think, uh, Jesus Christ for me was really
C: Mmhm
J: impact my, my life. He changed my life completely. He saved my life. Um, 19, 1994, I was in, in Goma in Zaire, Zaire, at that time, during the Rwandan War and visiting some of the feeding camp. That was the most shocking things for me. But at the same time was kind of shaking my life when I saw that reality. Um, see human beings in that condition was, gave me something that I never experienced before. Um, most of these was children. That was the most. Yeah, um, the magnitude of this tragedy was overwhelmed. Uh, at that time in Goma, there was easily a million and a half, maybe more, refugees living in, in, in a poor area. The condition was so extreme in, in everything. Food, water, bathroom, uh, medicine. Um, that was incredible for me. Um, for example, I didn’t know that there was an organization on the world. Not many people know this organization, but this one NGO who work there specific work is to remove bodies from, from the camp
W: Wow.
J: because they need to move (snaps quickly) quick these body because, uh, prevent sickness and other thing. And that, that was, if I think about something that impact my, that that place was, yeah.
C: Wow, that’s crazy. Well, those are all the questions we have for you.
J: Yeah?
C: Yeah. But it was very nice talking to you.
W: Very powerful, yeah
J: Yeah

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Interview with Carlos Maldonado

Interview with Carlos Maldonado

by Joel Ferrel

Carlos Maldonado is an immigrant from Honduras, who now attends James Madison University. Carlos is a rising senior and is a sociology major with a business minor. He is 23 years old, and he came to Honduras when he was around 9 years old around

Republic of Honduras

2005. He didn’t really have any dreams or aspirations because he was just a child upon entrance, but he did have visions of what America would be like through movies and pop culture.

He has worked with his dad in landscaping jobs and has been in American school ever since 4th grade to now. He struggled all through elementary and middle school communicating with people, since English was his second language. But in high school he really flourished and began to communicate with friends and teachers, making connections and social networking.

Around 11th grade Carlos was thinking about life, to either finish school and go right into working with dad or to go to college, but the question was how, he was an immigrant? He was starting to give up on his and his father’s dream of him going to university, but thankfully, When Barack Obama was still president, he came out with something called DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals) in June 2012. This gave him “hope,” like Obama campaign message!

Ever since he applied for DACA and got accepted, he’s applied to JMU and got accepted, got his license, and has a worker’s permit; all thanks to this program. He’s been involved with numerous clubs on campus as well, Carlos began to become very incorporated with the school; he joined LSA (Latino Student Association), Environmental management club, Madison Motors, and played intramurals soccer. He joined LSA to make a voice for the Latino community within JMU, he would attend events like the Silent Protest for DACA and TPS, where they walk around campus and discuss immigration issues like these. He also liked to go volunteer and plants tree within the community, to give back, with Environmental management club.

Although at first, Carlos didn’t like his experience in the USA because of occasions of being in a detention center for 2 weeks and not being able to communicate. Now, Carlos loves the US and couldn’t imagine being anywhere else.

 

TRANSCRIPT

(0:00 – 0:34) Joel: Alright, I’m here with Carlos Maldonado, resident here in Harrisonburg. Interviewer myself, Joel Ferrel, I’m here to conduct an oral history interview about his come a bout in Harrisonburg, and in the United States and how he impacted Harrisonburg, or since he’s young, how his parents impacted Harrisonburg and how it all came to be. So, to start off, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself, Carlos.

(0:35 – 0:49) Carlos: I’m a current JMU student, I’m a rising senior, and I’m a sociology major with a business minor and a concentration in business.

(0:50 -1:04) Joel: Alright, so we can definitely relate because I obviously go to JMU too so, yeah, what country are your parents or you originally from?

(1:05 – 1:08) Carlos: We’re from Honduras.

(1:09 – 1:12) Joel: And how long have you lived in Honduras for?

(1:13 – 1:28) Carlos: I lived over there until I was 9 years old, then I made my journey over to the US, and ever since I’ve been here for 13 years. My parents about 15-16 years.

(1:29 – 1:46) Joel: What made you guys want to leave Honduras? Was it because of that Hurricane that happened there, Hurricane Mitch in 1998? Or was it because of other reasons like work or money?

(1:47 – 2:05) Carlos: Just work and money. And we had some family over here, so my parents thought there were way better opportunities; so, we were just chasing the money and a better life and a better future for the whole family

(2:06 – 2:22) Joel: So, for whole family, like, does that include aunts and uncles that came with you. Or were there friends and families that went with you or were there friends or family waiting for you in a certain area that you came to?

(2:23 – 3:05) Carlos: To a certain extent. My parents came here first, like I mentioned. Around 2003 or 2004 I believe, and same with some uncles, 3 uncles if I recall. Then we came here in 2005 me myself and 2 brothers. But as of now its just the close family, my brothers and my parents. My uncles, they all left to Honduras, they didn’t like it so-

(3:06- 3:35) Joel: So, you guys are not about your culture and stuff or, did you bring your culture here to USA like the cooking and dressing or did you guys accustom to United State- burgers and fries and JORTS. Did you bring a taste of Honduras with you?

(3:36 – 4:00) Carlos: Oh yeah definitely, at home yes. We kind of prefer the Latino restaurants, especially my parents. I don’t mind it much, neither do my brothers; my dad still, he actually wants to back soon in 2-3 years. My mom, she’s not very fond of that.

(4:01 – 4:02) Joel: She doesn’t want to back?

(4:02 – 4:09) Carlos: No, she doesn’t want to back. She actually likes it here, but he, he wants to go back; he kind of misses it.

(4:10 – 4:27) Joel: Do you send remittances or like do you send your own money to help out you family or friends in need back to Honduras?

(4:28 – 4:56) Carlos: Yes, they do that, my mom and dad, so they either send it to my uncle or grandma. My dad is building stuff over there, he’s building stuff, he built 2 houses. He’s got a lot of cows, so it’s like a farm over there, he cultivates things, you know like corn and beans.

(4:57 – 5:08) Joel: So, the economy is essentially good over there? Well, I know there’s a lot of poverty and stuff, which I guess made you guys move to make more money, but as of now, is the economy better?

(5:09 – 5:42) Carlos: I wouldn’t say the economy is better, but it’s, you know how it’s a third world country, were still back in the bartering things and cultivating, so if you have animals, land, and tractors you pretty much can grow your own food and sell it. Compared to other people who don’t have that, are the ones who suffer if you ask me.

(5:43 – 5:54) Joel: So, how did you journey to here happen. Through boat or through Mexico? How did you to USA?

(5:59 – 6:18) Carlos: I made it through land, and through vehicle. So, from the beginning I recall one morning waking up, my grandma she woke us up. And we didn’t know about it.

(6:19 – 6:21) Joel: So, the kids didn’t know you were leaving, you and your brothers?

(6:22 – 7:19) Carlos: NO, we didn’t know. It was like 5 in the morning. And she was like “oh you guys are leaving to the US.” You know I was confused because you can’t just throw- I think I was 9, I’m the middle one by the way, I got 3 siblings. I was 9, my big brother was 10 and a half, and my little one was 6 years old. They woke us up, put us in a pick-up truck with an aunt so we then made it over here. I believe we crossed Guatemala, el Salvador, then Mexico. We shared a tractor-trailer.

(7:20 – 7:23) Joel: Like a big truck, filled with other people?

(7:23 – 8:06) Carlos: Yeah, they smuggled us in one of those, then we went to the safehouse. Then we crossed the river, The Rio Grande, The Grand River. So, once we crossed that, immigration caught us, so then after crossing swimming through the river we got caught. We went to this shelter. What are they called? Where they house the immigrants?

(8:07 – 8:09) Joel: Homeland security?

(8:10 – 8:25) Carlos: Yeah, it’s a part of homeland security. Yeah, but they keep the minors there, and they deported my aunt that came with us, but they let us stay because we were minors. Then our parents-

(8:26 – 8:30) Joel: Sorry, you went with your aunt and your parents and you 3 brothers?

(8:31 – 8:45) Carlos: No, no, just my aunt. My parents came over here 2 years prior. They had to come over to make the money to you know to save for us.

(8:46 – 8:47) Joel: Make a foundation for you guys

(8:48 – 8:49) Carlos: Yes, yes exactly.

(8:50 – 8:58) Joel: So, your aunt got caught, then you 3 just went, how did you go about, how did you find your way? I would be scared as a kid.

(8:59 – 9:10) Carlos: We all got caught, the thing is, since we were minors, they kept us, actually they kept us jailed, feeding us burritos for 2 weeks at least.

(9:12 – 9:13) Joel: Was it good at least?

(9:14 – 9:43) Carlos: They were pretty decent, you know, I would just go to Walmart and I would see those things and they would give me those things at school. Just the whole time it would remind me of the whole experience, we were pretty much jailed for about 2 weeks, a detention center. Feeding us burritos, until our parents showed up. Then our lives came about.

(9:44 – 9:48) Joel: You parents were on the US side coming to get you?

(9:49 – 10:00) Carlos: Yes, they were already in the US, and we were in Texas actually, so they drove from Virginia all the way to Texas to pick us up.

(10:01 – 10:02) Joel: All the way from Virginia to Texas?

(10:03) Carlos: Yes

(10:04 – 10:14) Joel: So, how long was your journey, in hours? From Honduras to Virginia? Or where ever your final destination was?

(10:15 – 10:41) Carlos: Honestly, I couldn’t tell you, because it took days, close to a week. And like I said, we were inside a tractor-trailer. So, there’s no sense of time, plus we were young, so its hard to make sense on it.

(10:42 – 10:50) Joel: So, when you came to Virginia, what part did your parents settle in?

(10:51 – 11:08) Carlos: We came to Harrisonburg, we’ve been in Harrisonburg since 2005. I went to half of 5th grade I believe, and then all the way to college here in Harrisonburg.

(11:09) Joel: So, you’ve just been staying local?

(11:11) Carlos: Yes, I’ve been local.

(11:13 – 11:22) Joel: How have your parents contributed to the economy of Harrisonburg, or work-wise what do they do around here?

(11:23 – 11:34) Carlos: It’s hard to contribute towards the economy and society when they’re immigrants themselves, they’re really limited-

(11:35 – 11:37) Joel: So, they couldn’t really get good jobs? Or careers?

(11:38 – 12:21) Carlos: Yeah, they couldn’t really get a career because of their status. But my dad he owns a landscaping company, so he still pays taxes through his tax payer ID, he can do taxes, so they tax his company and all the revenues and profits he does. He works locally, he also travels outside-

(12:22) Joel: Outside of Harrisonburg? Like all of Virginia, DC, northern Virginia too?

(12:29) Carlos: Yes, yes

(12:30 – 12:47) Joel: Let’s backtrack a bit, what was your first impression of USA? Like you said, that Walmart with the burritos, it makes you remember the burritos you had. What was your impression of all these stores, all these roads, how different was it from Honduras?

(12:48 – 13:17) Carlos: Very different, at the beginning I couldn’t get used to it. It’s a different culture, different language, different people. It hard to make sense of it, even the food. But you come to like it, and its nice now.

(13:18 – 13:23) Joel: Your initial impression was not so good, but how has it changed now?

(13:24 – 13:51) Carlos: I just really miss my family, Like I said, they dragged us out of bed at 5am without saying anything; pretty much it was a bad start from the beginning. If it would’ve been planned differently, I would have had hopes and aspirations on what to expect, but I just came to a random land and I wasn’t fond of it.

(13:52 – 14:07) Joel: So as kid you said you had hopes, what were you hoping for when you came to America? What did you expect of all this?

(14:08 – 15:03) Carlos: Pretty much, popular culture, you know just watching movies you see all the Americans having fun, hanging out with friends, socializing, going to king’s dominion/six flags all those types of things. But as an immigrant you can’t really do all that, you’re not just limited yourself, but your parents too. They can’t drive much because of license problem. Like you mentioned, the roads and stores, this and that. You can’t read the road signs, you can’t make sense of the money, its hard to put yourself out there.

(15:04 – 15:21) Joel: Were you treated differently since you were an immigrant or where you grew up or where you were at, were there more immigrant people or white people. How were you treated?

(15:22 – 16:00) Carlos: I used to think that people would treat me differently. But I think that’s just psychological, it really depends on your personality and how you go about yourself. I don’t think I was treated differently, but for sometime I felt like I was, but that is because of my barriers; of not being able to communicate or make sense of the environment and the people around me. But no, I wouldn’t agree with that.

(16:01 – 16:23) Joel:  Did watching American movies fulfill your expectations? Or were you expecting something way more? Like you said you couldn’t go to kings dominion. Was your idea of America the same as it was in your reality or was it different?

(16:24 – 18:01) Carlos: I would go in between, thinking about it now, its life you got to take care of bills. I understand now why my parents wouldn’t go out on a lot of adventures/trips. But if you have the means to do all that, definitely I would have said it met my expectations, but I came to a country where my parents had to build the foundations of my family and take care of us from scratch. When my dad came and my mom, they had to be housed by my uncle I think, that was already here. You know, they came over here with nothing; a bag behind their back, clothes on them, pair of shoes, maybe a few dollars on them; but that’s it, you gotta start from scratch. And If you don’t have anyone to house you, your pretty much homeless, so it all starts from there.

(18:02 – 18:10) Joel: What was you experience like in middle school and high school?

(18:11 – 20:14) Carlos: I really liked middle school a lot, made a few friends moved on. My English wasn’t the best, but by 9th I got pretty good at it, I was pretty smart, good grades. Then it was 10th grade I started thinking about life, I started working with my dad in his landscaping company. In my off days, I wasn’t fond of them, I didn’t really like them. Then there was 11th grade, junior year, I was like wow, one more year I’m either going to be a full time worker or go to college. I thought about it, how am I going to go to college? Carlos: There was no way of going to college because I was an illegal immigrant. So, all those years of studying, trying to get good grades, and get through high school. It really challenges you, your mind and everything. Because you do all that, and at the end of the day, you just graduate high school and you’re just going to be another immigrant working in either construction or landscaping. Just getting paid minimum, because you can’t make a career of yourself, or get employed legally.

(20:15 – 20:22) Joel: And most of the time be paid under the table, if your employed by a corporation.

(20:23) Carlos: Right

(2:24 – 2:37) Joel: I guess you worked for your dad, and he had his company. When you got out of high school, your choices were work and study. Which one did you choose and why?

(2:28 – 2:40) Carlos: My dad he always supported education, he didn’t get an education himself. So, I didn’t really get a choice, he always wanted me to study. Just the means to get the education was challenging because illegal immigrants don’t get FASFA, federal aid; we do get scholarships though. Most of the immigrants they just slack off, and at the end of the day they don’t get FASFA. So, you got to pay everything out of pocket, and you can’t get loans because you don’t have a valid social security. You can’t get FASFA or loans, because you don’t have social security. However, back in 11th grade, in high school, that’s when Obama put out DACA, deferred action for children in America. So what DACA did, it provided any children of illegal immigrants. It provided them driver’s license, the ability to work legally, a social security, and you could also go to college! So that’s when my world came about. That’s when I got excited about life, you know I felt that all those years and the journey and sacrifices were not in vain because I was finally going to do what they wanted me to do.  We were finally living our dream and changing the history of our family, because no one in my family went to college prior that. This was a big come about for us.

(2:41 – 2:55) Joel: You applied for DACA and everything, and you got your way in to college. What made you want to choose JMU?

(2:58 – 25:06) Carlos: I just feel that being a resident of the Harrisonburg community, I heard a lot about JMU, even though there aren’t a lot of Latinos in here. It’s a really nice institute, always driving in the streets, I imagined myself as one in the crowd. Backpack on, walking through campus, walking the quad, as an actual student, not just visiting. I remember the first time I saw it, I was amazed by it. And you know I was amazed and at the same time sad, because I thought I was never going to experience it. Because of my previous immigration status, but like I said, when DACA came around that changed.

(25:11 – 25:19) Joel: Alright, how has JMU, or Harrisonburg, shaped you as a person?

(25:20 – 26:42) Carlos: It’s definitely made me see things from a different perspective. For example, people don’t have it as easy as I imagine, its JMU a hard school, its very difficult. Everyone who’s here earned their way in, their acceptance. How it shaped me is, I can really see how people feel about the community by being a part of it. I see why the choose JMU, there’s a lot of Virginia residents, they really want to shape the community. Volunteering and joining clubs; the students are doing amazing things here and like I said, I’m glad to be accepted into it, and I try my best.

(26:43 – 26:49) Joel: So what organizations and clubs have you been involved with around here?

(26:54 – 27:54) Carlos: Right now, I’m in LSA which is Latino Student Alliance. And Environmental Management club, and I also play intramural soccer. I was also a part of Madison Motors, which was a club for car enthusiasts. I’ve tried to join other things, not a lot of things get my interest. I’ve gone to the thing where they show all the clubs.

(27:55 – 28:00) Joel: The interesting meeting?

(28:01 – 28:19) Carlos: I can’t recall, I feel like every time I go there the interesting clubs aren’t there. Either that, or I feel like there are too many female-related clubs.

(28:20) Joel: Sororities and stuff?

(28:21) Carlos: Yeah, rather than just, co-ed type of things.

(28:31 – 28:36) Joel: So, what made you want to be involved with LSA and EMC?

(28:37 – 30:41) Carlos: LSA, you know the whole Latino Community here in JMU and how there’s been a lot of things going on within the Latino community, ever since Donald Trump. So, I just wanted to stay inform and attend their meetings. Support the community, for instance, last year we were highly involved. I think we did about 3 walks around campus. Like, Silent Protest for DACA and TPS and another one. I forgot what the other one was for, but the reason for those protest, a silent protest, we just stand against the decisions made by the legal system; hence Donald Trump and all the decisions he’s been making. Especially on how he was trying to abolish DACA and the same with the TPS, which is Temporary Protected Status. Both of those services, what they do, they pretty much make illegal immigrants gives them the right to work and gives them driver’s license. And it just takes away their illegal status and their allowed to work. They help the community by working, and buying stuff, owning property and stuff like that.

(30:42 – 30:51) Joel: How did you apply for DACA? What papers did you have to go through and what did you have to turn? Was there a type of fee?

(30:52 – 32:14) Carlos: Yes, the way they do it, there’s like a certain criteria. I believe you have to arrive to the US prior being 29 or 30 years old, before 2001 I believe, and not have any criminal record. Also, yes there’s a fee, I think its about 500 or 600 dollars. The way you apply is, you either get a lawyer and they do all the applications and you can also do them yourself. After the application, you send it by mail and you wait around a month/a month and a half, they send you an interview. Not an interview, yeah, they send you something, so you can go take your fingerprints, after the run their records, their background check on you. They either decide if you qualify or not.

(32:15) Joel: And so, you qualified for everything?

(32:16 – 33:59) Carlos: Yes, I qualified back in 2011, and the way they do it is, that it expires every 2 years. So, every 2 years, since 2011, I’ve applied 3 times. Yeah, I’ve applied 3 times, all those 3 times it’s the same process. You send your application, you send a check for 500 dollars I believe and then you go for you biometrics appointment and then you wait for the month of their reply; whether they accepted or not.

(33:00 – 33:36) Joel: Under Obama’s presidency there was the Dreamers Act, DACA, all that he provided for illegal immigrant type students. But now that Trump under presidency, its been said that he terminated DACA and that he said he was going to send everyone back home. How does someone still renew their DACA or is still under being appealed?

(3:37 – 34:13) Carlos: The way how that goes is; he did try to revoke it, but you know both houses of congress didn’t let him do it. However, it did get revoked for a little bit, for about 2 weeks I believe. Can you refresh the question?

(34:14 – 34:29) Joel: Like, I guess it’s been said that Trump terminated DACA program, and you said only for a little bit. How does someone still renew their DACA or is still the same process now?

(34:30 – 34:57) Carlos: Oh yeah, it’s the same process pretty much, but its been rumored that this is the last renewal that people are going to get. But I haven’t heard anything about it being completely revoked; however, there is rumors that this is the last two years that it will run for.

(34:58 – 35:03) Joel: And can someone get denied their DACA by any chance?

(35:04 – 35:58) Carlos: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, they say its discretionary decision. Depending on your record or anything like that, your background or whether the immigration agent who’s with you and your application, if he feels that anything doesn’t look right or if he’s in a bad mood. Then he can say no, and just stamp it and deny it. It’s a tough process, an agent being a in bad mood can determine the outcome of whether your legal or not.

(3:59) Joel: So, is it a bit like getting a Visa?

(36:05 – 36:21) Carlos: Yes, just that Visas tend to run longer, 5 years. The difference is just that DACA is 2 years.

(36:22 – 37:29) Joel: I have a cousin, his name is Dennis, and he came here on a vacation VISA. He was supposed to leave around December and even while he was on the vacation VISA he was still working, just getting paid under the table or getting paid under my uncle’s name, who is a legal resident of America. For someone that has DACA and its been repealed or denied now, like they had DACA they could study and whatnot which makes them a legal student under the eyes of the government. If you’re under DACA, you’re from Mexico you can study and get a license but let’s say they do something bad and they deny their DACA. What can that person do or are they seen as illegal immigrant, or can I support them?

(37:30 – 38:15) Carlos: Definitely when they make your sign, fill out applications and fingerprints. They ask for you addresses, for example me, they have my JMU address and my residential address. If by any case my application gets repealed/denied in anyway, ICE can show up any day at my doorstop and send me back to my country.

(38:20 – 38:34) Joel: Now that you’re here in JMU, under DACA, do you have any plans on bettering the community. What’re your plans after graduating.

(38:35 – 39:50) Carlos: After graduating well, what I’m trying to do with my degree, like I said I’m sociology with a business minor with concentration in markets and culture. I definitely want to stick around either work Human Resources or non-profit. I can go either way, or I can do any business-related type of work. But definitely local and I’d really like the non-profit way because it’s more centered towards helping the society/community, those around you. Either that or go towards the green center and renewable energy type of thing. Anything that betters the environment and the community around me.

(39:56 – 40:24) Joel: Alright, so, in the community of Harrisonburg what do you think about the whole immigration deal here in Harrisonburg, VA. Do you think they affect Harrisonburg in a good or bad way or does it affect the economy? What do you think on them?

(40:27 – 42:57) Carlos: I think it’s a positive thing to have, I never really liked the idea of not having different—I really liked the idea of having different groups of people together. It shapes the community differently I believe in a positive way. They used to say, this was the melting pot of cultures, people, this and that. That was an interesting topic in history and I really liked it. I still believe that its still a thing, it just brings about different perspectives, you just don’t know what’s going to happen, but I believe positive things are going to happen. Just because we got different minds, different backgrounds, different cultures; so, you know were all borrowing from each other, we learn. Immigrants in the community are a good thing, plus, it’s really easy to get rid of them, when they do something. All of their records, everyone is required to get an ID, identification card. Either going out, getting a drink, or getting anywhere. Most people, they just get a DMV ID card, or license. So, if an immigrant does anything bad, they’re not shaping the community in a positive way; sadly, ICE will come and get them, so there’s a solution for those who are not helping the community grow.

(43:00 – 43:24) Joel: Back to your parents, because like you said you a full-time student since you got here in elementary, middle school, high school, and college. How did your parents rise up in terms of their job status, in terms of their job status, where did they start off as, working wise and how did they get to the level they are now?

(43:25 – 44:09) Carlos: I would say hard work, knowing how to save money, not have any debts; they never went to college, when they arrived here, they started over in Florida, they were picking oranges and apples, you know any type of fruits doing manual labor. One day my dad came over to Harrisonburg to drop off someone and—

(44:10) Joel: He saw that there was business here and more work?

(44:14 – 44:27)Carlos: Yes, he saw that there was more landscaping here, Florida, I’ve never been there, but from the looks of it there’s no landscaping here, there’s a lot of retired people—

(44:28) Joel: Too many Cubans…

(44:24 – 45:50) Carlos: Yeah, that’s pretty much, that’s the city. Over here there’s more farmland. Like I said my dad did landscaping, and there was more landscaping over here, he liked it and it was better paid. Less stressful, the workload wasn’t that heavy, so from there he came over here, he saved up a little bit. Bought some tools and just started his own landscaping company. You know from there, things just got better for him. We can put it as that he’s a good businessman, he knows how to manage his tools, his money, and he knows how to be effective without an education. It’s surprising

(45:51 – 46:05) Joel: Yeah, same, my dad started from nothing and now he owns his own business, and it’s crazy how they did this without education, but that was back in the day where everything was cheaper, and everything was different.

(46:06 – 46:23) Carlos: True, I can see that too. Now there’s even more competition, there’s a lot of competition in landscaping and in all types of businesses.

(46:24 – 46:46) Joel: Your mom, was she more of a stereotypical housewife? How they put it in Latin America, you know when they grow up, they all got to learn how to cook and clean and that their life. Or when she came here, she came to work too or was it different?

(46:47 – 48:19) Carlos: No, she also came to work, what she did was either work for—cleaning houses, working for agencies, I guess not agencies, but also under the table working for other Hispanic people that have a cleaning company. She just tagged along and went out and cleaned, and now she works at a nursery, taking care of plants, planting plants. My dad has always been the, the one who brings the money home, and she just spends that money on food, groceries, clothes for the family; my dad pays for tuition and her money revolves around the family, taking care of us, and my dad takes care of the bills and for our education.

(48:20) Joel: Are your brothers also a part of DACA?

(48:24) Carlos: Yes, they are.

(48:28 – 48:38) Joel: Have any of them gotten in any trouble to have it repealed or are they studying in high school or college right now?

(48:39 – 50:10) Carlos: My younger brother, he’s in community college at the moment, last time I talked to him he was getting ready to apply for new university, you know transfer. Yeah, but he said he wanted to go to VCU, then he was like no I don’t want to anymore. So, I don’t know what his decision was. My older brother he actually dropped out of high school in his junior year, yeah, he didn’t like school, I have no idea why, he was so close to making it. But, yes, so right now its just my middle brother and I who are in college, that’s 2 tuitions my dad has to pay, both coming out of pocket, as previously mentioned, we don’t get any financial aid. Every class, every dollar spent every semester I feel it for him, so I’m out here trying to do my best.

(50:14 – 50:31) Joel: Does your dad in anyway contribute to Harrisonburg with his work or is he a lot about the money and doesn’t care about volunteering?

(50:34 – 53:12) Carlos: I’ll be truthful, he just cares about the money, like I said, he probably wants to go back in about 2 years, back to Honduras, he misses his country. I totally understand where he comes from, because, he came here in his late-mid 30s I believe, you know, to him this isn’t really his community, he wasn’t born and raised. When your born and raised it’s a different feeling, I know I wasn’t either, but I came as a stranger and I still young enough to adapt to the whole feeling of a community, but at his age, still not being able to perfect his English, barely get around with it, I could see why he doesn’t go out or go around his way to help the community around here, because everything, despite being here for around 15 years, it still feels strange, the fact that you weren’t born and raised. But it my conservation, purchasing either equipment, the fact of paying taxes, owning a company, revenue just goes revolves through the whole economy. I would say in a way, that’s still contributing to Harrisonburg and its economy. So, in a way yes, also he bought 2 tractors, he has a whole bunch of working equipment, so that’s also in some type of way contributing to the economy of Harrisonburg, on whole USA as a whole. Wouldn’t you say?

(53:13 – 53:17) Joel: Yeah, the whole macro economy and micro economy.

(53:18 – 53:51) Carlos: Yes, you know your actually doing something and it just revolves and goes back. Your feeding the whole economy of the US when you purchase a vehicle, house, and equipment and tractors like he did. So you know, definitely I would say he was a successful businessman.

(53:52 – 53:59) Joel: Is you dad now, did he apply for his citizenship? Or is he protected under his immigration status?

(54:00 – 55:54) Carlos: No, he hasn’t applied for citizenship, I don’t know if there’s a path for him to have citizenship, but he does have a workers permit and so does my mom. They just received it a year ago. So right now, they have working social securities and valid drivers license and they feel safer now; however, there was, they felt unsafe about giving the government all their information, because they did have to go and place their fingerprints, they had to give up their address, their workplace. So, if anything, out of the blue, if Donald trump decides to place a criteria on certain individuals, previous immigrants under a workers permit, without you know, that don’t have any visas then, visas hold greater power than just a simple workers permit. Because you’re here illegal, and they can take a workers permit anytime. I would say its like a license, and they can take it away anytime. It’s a license that allows you to get a job, lets put it that way.

(55:55) Joel: They’re using it to their full advantage?

(56:00 – 56:31) Carlos: Definitely, you know because, just last week they were going to look for a house, looking to buy a house, which I don’t understand how that connects to the point that he wants to go back to Honduras. But maybe he wants to buy it, and put a down payment and let us finish the payments ourselves or maybe—

(56:32) Joel: He’s making a plan for you guys, giving you guys a place to live?

(56:35 – 57:47) Carlos: Yeah, maybe, he’s actually looking into the long-run, and hopefully he obtains citizenship one day and travel back and forth; since he knows a lot of people that take goods from over here and go over there and sell them. There’s a lot of things going on craigslist that are given away. With this consumption economy, mass production, there’s a lot of things out there in the curve of houses. He knows a lot of people that go around and collect things and take it back to Honduras and sell them and actually make a profit. I think he’s going to do something like that once he gets older and can’t do anymore landscaping and hands-on type of labor.

(57:48 – 58:19) Joel: Now that were under the Trump administration, do you think it’s hard for someone to apply for working visas or visitors visa or even DACA? Do you think its harder for an immigrant to come and work here now? Now than ever before?

(58:20 – 59:06) Carlos:  Like coming from a foreign country? I would say depending on the skills, engineers are always welcomed, but if its physical labor, hands on type of thing, yeah, they’re not going to let them in. I don’t know if you’ve seen the news lately, Trump says any kid born from an illegal immigrant, he wants to strip away they’re citizenship.

(59:07) Joel: That’s not allowed, anyone born here is a naturalized citizen.

(59:11 – 59:26) Carlos: Yeah, it’s a constitutional amendment, but you know, things like that, one day he’s going to find a loophole out of one of his idea, and something might happen, so who knows.

(59:27 – 59:47) Joel: Alright, so, thank you for the interview, this was also for my History 313 class, if I didn’t mention it, and this was the interviewee Carlos Maldonado, and how old are you again?

(59:48) Carlos: I’m 23.

(59:52 – 1:00:08) Joel: So, we just got two students here, one who’s me the interviewer, Joel Ferrel, and Carlos Maldonado. I just want to thank him for doing this with me, and Thank you, and alright goodbye.

TRANSCRIPT-1ousg5q

Nicolas M Iglesias

Interview with Nicolas Iglesias

by Ashley Alderman and Emily Shlapak

Nicolas Iglesias

By: Ashley Alderman and Emily Shlapak

Introduction

My partner and I interviewed Nicolas on Monday, November 26th, at his office in his place of work, Rocktown Realty. Nico was born in Buenos Aires, Argentina in 1974 and lived there until he immigrated to the United States in 2000 at the age of 26.  He currently resides in Harrisonburg, Virginia after moving from Miami in 2015. He works full time as a realtor at Rocktown Realty. We interviewed Nico to find out information specifically about his life in Argentina, what lead him to becoming a citizen of the United States, and ultimately about his life here in Harrisonburg.

Life in Argentina

Nicholas Iglesias is 44-years-old and was born and raised in Argentina. At home in Argentina, him and his father owned a printing company, but the business was not doing well enough to support their family. The lack of success from their printing company is what ultimately pushed Nico to start a life in the states so that he could make a better living. In 2000, he was 26-years-old when he left Argentina to find work in the U.S. What’s important to note is that at the time of Nico’s departure, Argentina was undergoing a severe economic crisis, which was affecting their small printing business. During most of the 90’s, Argentina led mostly all Latin American countries in terms of economic growth. Everything took a turn in the late 90’s due to the country’s currency peg to the U.S. dollar, various fiscal policies, and an excessive amount of foreign borrowing. This left the country in a major currency, debt, and banking depression (The Argentine Crisis 2001/2002).

As seen in the graph, it’s clear to see that Nico left Argentina right before the country was in complete economic disarray. The graph shows the severe dip in the government’s debt as a percentage of GDP. In December 2001, President Rodriguez Saá announced a default on Argentina’s sovereign debt, in which he was forced to resign a few days later. Four different Presidents attempted to take control of Argentina’s economy in December 2001, none of them managed to stay in office (The Argentine Crisis 2001/2002). The volatile economic state of the country coupled with political instability was the “push” from Argentina that justified Nico’s decision.

When asked about any significant event that helped Nico transition to American life, he provided a fascinating response that encapsulates the essence of his “push” from Argentina and his “pull” to America. He said it wasn’t really an event, but the “option to have a future is the big difference.” Nico said that in mostly all of South America you could have an “okay” business but then “in two months, something changes, new taxes… or deflation… You’re gone. You have no idea what’s going to happen. It’s completely unstable.” This brilliant and eye-opening response shed light on the fact a lot of countries current economic/political state does not allow for its own people to have the option of a foreseeable future. Due to Argentina’s state when Nico left, he felt that the country was too unstable to be able to organize himself and plan ahead. That is a luxury that Americans take for granted the ability to make 5 or 10-year plans for the future with the reliance that the government or economy won’t radically decline/shift in an abrupt way. We see our stability as a necessity rather than a luxury. Nico’s response to this question perfectly illustrated his motivation to leave Argentina and migrate to the states.

Change to America

When Nico first arrived in the U.S. he settled in Miami, Florida. A friend he had attended elementary school with was already living in Miami; therefore he saw it as the best option for a place to start. Connecting with this friend allowed him to become part of an already present surrounding Latino community which helped make the move and acclimation to the U.S. easier. He entered the U.S. with a B2 visa, or in other words a tourist visa (Temporary Work Visas). His tourist visa allowed him to stay for 6 months at a time and but did not allow for employment. In Nico’s first year he traveled back and forth from Miami to Argentina 17 times. When asked what he did to make money he explained, “what I was doing is coming in, buying some stuff, buying electronics, buying clothing, going back, selling and trying to start a kind of a business and make a living off that.”  He also worked multiple other jobs to make ends meet, one included making pizza. When traveling back to Argentina he would often get asked about his work, receiving comments such as “Why are you doing it in Miami and not doing it back in Argentina?” when relating to pizza making or he would get ridiculed, his friends constantly asking “why he was going to go and wash dishes for the gringos over there?” and yet these comments didn’t affect his plan. His response would be “Because if I’m doing the dishes, I can live with that money.” His jobs and the opportunities available in Miami were allowing him to save and count on money that wouldn’t have been possible back in Argentina. His employment held in Miami, and the money coming from it showed him a future that he could count on, without the threat that was present in Argentina, that one day he would wake up to it all changing or disappearing.

He received an opportunity to obtain a temporary work visa through his friend who was already working for a cellular company. His friend was able to connect Nico with a job and chance to put down permanent ties in the U.S. While this job created more stability for Nico, he still worked hard, once even holding three jobs at a time. He continued to work for the cellular company for 6 or 7 years until they went under bankruptcy. Due to this he then transferred to another company which also offered him a work visa until he eventually started up his own business. He was able to apply for his green card after 6 years and then worked on applying for his citizenship through his new LLC.

Around the time Nico was applying for his green car, he married his now wife Sandra, in Miami. Sandra was from Columbia and had already been going through her citizenship process when they met. She was steps ahead of Nico and once she was finally a citizen, he was able to expedite his process through her file as well. He and his wife lived in Florida for a total of 5 years after they got married. His business, Pro Arco LLC, a cargo company which specialized in international business, had flourished, however it held a lot of responsibility which was often put solely on Nico. After receiving an offer to sell in 2015, Nico, Sandra and their dog, Shanty decided to complete their mutual goal of moving north. During an annual road trip the trio happened to stop in Harrisonburg where they found everything they were looking for.

Work in Harrisonburg

In September 2015, the family of three packed up and moved to Harrisonburg. When asked why they choose Harrisonburg, Nico responded with one word, “adventure.” Due to the fact that Nico wanted to cut back on working and the original headquarters of Rosetta Stone, the company his wife worked for, was located in Harrisonburg, they saw this as the perfect choice for them. Once settled here Nico planned to take a yearlong sabbatical, however, this ended after just a short 3 months. Previously in Miami, his clients use to ask for and trusted his advice given on investments and properties. With this move, he decided that was what he wanted to continue, but in a more official manor. He got his realtors license in hopes of making a profit on the side of his everyday work, however it ended up becoming a bigger focus than he expected.

“I’m probably not the real, the ideal realtor or, the one that you will figure out that is a realtor,” Nico claimed. Starting out his work mainly focused on investing in properties, calling up those who had asked for advice previously and offering his services officially. His previous work in international business allowed him to create contacts and clients who don’t even live in Harrisonburg, but who now own the buildings. Often times he has sold properties without the client even seeing them. He sees his work as mainly numbers and can convince a client or potential client with only 10 minutes of talking about the logistics of an investment. While he started with a more adviser/behind the scenes approach, his growing connections to Harrisonburg as well as the Latino community are resulting in him becoming a bit more hands on.

Life in Harrisonburg

Nico’s first impression of Harrisonburg is that the place truly encompassed its name of being the “Friendly City.” During Mr. and Mrs. Iglesias’ first Thanksgiving in Harrisonburg, they were completely by themselves and they did not even know where they could buy a turkey. They went to Food Lion and someone that was stocking the shelves took 10 minutes out of their time to explain to them where they could go to buy one and how to get there. Nico recounted that you would never see that type of hospitality in Miami, they’d probably just tell you to “go to the store.” Him and his wife’s encounter with the Food Lion employee was their first symbolic interaction that shaped the way they viewed the city of Harrisonburg. He feels as if he’s acclimated very well to Harrisonburg, especially because it is not a large city. Nico remarks, “I mean I, I know people all around and being here only three years. So that’s the main, the main thing you have friends all over and that helps, really.”

Something important to talk about is the influx of immigration that has occurred in the Harrisonburg community the past few decades. In Harrisonburg and Rockingham County (2017), 16.7% of its citizens are foreign-born, which is bold compared to 10% in the state of Virginia (A Brief History of Immigration in Harrisonburg). More notably there has been a “Latinization of the Central Shenandoah Valley.” Although there are many factors that influenced the surge of immigration in the 90’s, one of them was the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) that was signed in 1992 and took effect in 1994. NAFTA had a negative impact on small Mexican farmers, which caused an influx of Mexican immigrants coming to the U.S. Refugees and immigrants were also drawn to the Shenandoah Valley due to the poultry industry, which mixed the pot of ethnicities that were present in the community (A Brief History of Immigration in Harrisonburg). Essentially, “immigrant recruitment” was occurring in the valley due to the need for workers, notably on farms. The city of Harrisonburg was starting to adapt to the strong presence of immigrants at different levels of the community. According to New Bridges, the Immigrant Resource Center, “by the late 1990s, Harrisonburg City Public Schools provided translation and interpretation support for multiple languages, including Spanish, Arabic, Kurdish, and some Russian” (A Brief History of Immigration in Harrisonburg).

Nico is satisfied with the Latino presence in Harrisonburg because it keeps him socially engaged with the community. Nico says, “We are always getting together for, I would say probably once a month just for fun. Having dinner in different places. We have a group of, I would say probably seven to eight couples, kids, dogs and just get together, have dinner, or probably go to a salsa night in the cross keys vineyard.”

Nico’s Latino friend group is part of his contexts of reception in Harrisonburg because it has helped him adjust the most to life in Harrisonburg. Going from Miami to Harrisonburg certainly entails a form of culture shock, but we think that his Latino connections within the city is what keeps Nico grounded. Nico’s wife was born in Colombia, so this is also a feature of Harrisonburg that she benefits from. As pictured, Cross Keys hosts Salsa Night on a monthly basis, which is a primal example of the city accommodating to the ethnic community. Cross Keys hosting these types of events that appeal to Latinos is another context of reception for Nico, in other words, another way that makes him feel more connected to the community. These types of international events are crucial to a growing, cosmopolitan community that seeks to make its newcomers feel as at home as possible.

Attitudes

When asked if there has ever been bias placed upon him due to being an immigrant in his line of work Nico had a few answers. “Yes and no. I mean, the environment that we have in this company, it’s completely different as you can imagine than any other company that’s, that needs to be said. It’s a complete difference. One of the owners was born in, uh, Netherlands, uh, and lived all over the world, so he speaks like six different languages. We have people from at least 10 different countries working in the company.” Rocktown Realty therefore being a diverse and accepting workplace like a lot Harrisonburg, however he has experienced some issues with his clients. “I get phone calls from a lot of people that I don’t know and as soon as they call me on the phone and get my accent or my last name it’s, “uh, I already have a realtor” or “I’ll call you back later”.” Nico also noted the difference in perceptions in Harrisonburg compared to Miami, “Usually in Florida if they are not really, let’s say, pro-immigrant. They just left you alone. That’s it. Over here, they let you know that they are not willing to let you be basically.”

Nico’s remarks highlight that while Harrisonburg may be called the “Friendly City” and that it has become a lot more diverse over the last few years, there are still people that aren’t as accepting. The context of reception in this case would be that the people and communities in Miami were a lot more willing and/or accepting towards immigrants than in Harrisonburg. We believe this is due to the vast population of diverse people, including immigrants, which are integrated into Miami’s society. If there are any issues, they often aren’t showcased, merely they let it be. While there may be some people against the immigrants in their society, they don’t go out of the way to make people feel rejected or unwanted, they’re merely indifferent. Whereas in Harrisonburg, the “natives” as Nico comments, sometimes aren’t afraid to blatantly show their bias, recalling that “When we moved here, I mean the city was extremely friendly. We know that at the very beginning. But every now and then we, when you hear someone that is really against you– is really against you.”

Conclusion

Nico has been living in the U.S. for 18 years now. He has built a home, strong connections to his community, as well as a successful career and continues to do so.Curious to see his opinion on his journey as an immigrant, we broached the question about if he had any advice to give to others thinking about immigrating to another country, “looking back, I will always try to get a helping hand in advance. Try to know where I’m going to land and if there’s going to be uh plan B, let’s say.”  When we asked Nico to look back at his entire experience immigrating to America, in retrospect, he told us something very humbling: “No, I wouldn’t change anything. I mean, again, that’s basically my way of life. I mean, I did it at the moment, I took my time, I thought about it, I thought this was the best, and if it wasn’t, okay, next.” Venturing into the unknown, not knowing anything besides the fact that the journey will be arduous is a daunting pursuit. What really struck us about Nico was his humility. He was brave enough to take a risk, brave enough to make mistakes, and most importantly, brave enough to learn from those mistakes. He did not judge himself when he messed up, he said “ok, next,” and forged forward. No thinking, just doing. He said he was going to America, and that is exactly what he did. For foreigners to come to America, that long process alone is emotionally and physically taxing. The idea that they can then start a life here and lead a life they are proud of is genuinely impressive beyond words. The resilience of Nico, among thousands of other immigrants, is an admirable quality that we truly need to have more of in America.

Interview with Nicolas Iglesias

By Ashley Alderman and Emily Shlapak

November 26th, 2018 at 4pm

Emily Shlapak (1) : Alright, so if you wanna just start with your name, where you’re from and what life was like, I guess in Argentina,

Nicolas Iglesias(2): What life was like in Argentia ha, well my name is Nicholas Iglesias. I’m from Argentina, i am 44 years old and I started coming to the states when in 2000. Uh, there was a big economic crisis at that time between 2001 in Argentina. I was working with my dad in a project and we own a printing company lets say, and it was not giving us enough money to the both families. Yeah. So I just decided to let him start to stay over there and I’m moved here and start from scratch. But it was easier for me being 20 years old.

Ashley Alderman (3): So you were 20 when you came?

Speaker 2: I was 26

Speaker 1: What was the process like to um, get your visa?

Speaker 2: Extremely hard and difficult. It was, I mean when I first came I came with, uh, what was it, a tourist visa, so it all only allows me to stay for six months, not work for anybody. So what I did was for the first year I traveled back and forth 17 times actually.

Speaker 1: In six months?

Speaker 1: No in a year, a year. Crazy. Let’s say about once a month, let’s say 17 months probably. So what I was doing is coming in, buying some stuff, buying electronics, buying clothing, going back selling and trying to start a kind of a business and make a living for that, uh, after that, I mean, long story short, I started working for a company that sells cellular phones and they offered me to get my visa.I got the visa from them, a work visa, a working visa from them. And that every time that since I started trying to do my own business, what I did was I create my own company and start building my own LLC to get my visa through my company.

Speaker 3: What was your company? Like cellular?

Speaker 2: Uh, yes. It was a generic, buying and selling whatever I can do a basically for export to South America, especially different Argentina. And uh, that was the beginning of it. I worked for three different companies at the moment. The first one was going towards bankruptcy, so I moved to another one, got my visa,  transferred the visa, and then after six years I was able to apply for my green card. At that very moment I got married to my actual wife. She was already a citizen, or getting her citizenship probably a year after we get married.

Speaker 1: Was she from Argentina as well?

Speaker 2: No she’s from Colombia.

Speaker 3: She’s went through the same process kind of too?

Speaker 2: Kind of yeah, she did the basically the same process. We didn’t meet at that time, but she, she could make it faster than me,. So when I could apply for my green card, she was already applied for her citizenship. So I did my green card on her file, let’s say. It was faster for me.

Speaker 1: When you first came here, where did you come to? Harrisonburg?

Speaker 2: No, no that was in Miami. I lived in Miami, uh, 15 years.

Speaker 3 : What made you go to Miami first?

Speaker 2: It was easier. It was the idea to live with some Latino, like community. So Latino community is surrounding, make it easier. One of my biggest friends was living there. Uh, so I moved here, moved there and started working with him.

Speaker 3: So it was people you had previously known?

Speaker 2: Yes. I mean only one, one or two friends that we actually did elementary school together. So I decided to start there. And my always, my goal was to move somewhere, let’s say northern to live really in the states basically.

Speaker 1: Uh, did you guys work together?

Speaker 2: Yes, my friend?

Speaker 1:   Yes.

Speaker 2: Yes, I worked for him. He was working for um, a, a cell phone company and he brought me into the company and we worked together for probably six or seven years. Then when the company was heading to bankruptcy I just moved onto another company.

Speaker 1: Did you like living in Miami?

Speaker 2: Yes and no. I mean it’s a big city, a lot of options, but everything is a, I don’t want to say a mess, but kind of. The worst thing was basically the, the weather weather was too much. Way too much, I mean eighties, at least all year, round around way too much. So again, after we got married, uh, probably five years after we were married, yes, between four or five years, we both have the same idea of let’s move somewhere else and it just happened to be in Harrisonburg

Speaker 3: You came over alone you said?

Speaker 2: Yes

Speaker 3: But did any of your family ever come over?

Speaker 2: Not to live here. They visit at least once a year. Uh, I’m actually going to Argentina next week for 10 days. Uh, it’s my oldest brother, my only brother, 50th birthday, so I’m flying to. I’m going to see him and stay with my family. My mother was here about two, three weeks ago. She usually comes once a year, at least, my brother every now and then. I haven’t even seen my sister in three years, uh nephew’s every now and then. It’s, I mean it’s long trip and an expensive trip,  so it’s not easy for them to come over, especially big families.

Speaker 1: How did you make the decision to come to Harrisonburg, like harrisonburg  specifically?

Speaker 2: That’s uh, Okay. I will, I mean, if I have to say only one word, it will be adventure basically. Uh, I worked for myself for the last 15 years probably, or at least 10. I owned a cargo company in Miami. I was working way too much to be honest. All the records, all the stuff was on my shoulders, all the time. Um, so once a year , for usually holidays we did a road trip. Sandra, my wife, the dog and me, just the three of us driving around somewhere, usually north specially to Canada. I have a friend  who was in elementary school with me yet, so I’m still in touch with him and try to meet each other at least once a year with him. So on one of those trips we happened to stop in harrisonburg. Uh, we liked the city, it was nice, it was friendly, completely different. We were like okay this has all the seasons, you can actually see the changes.

Speaker 1: Yeah that’s why my family moved, cause I use to like in Florida, like West Palm beach area.

Speaker 2: Okay, well the last, my last address in Miami, Florida was um Davy, fort lauderdale?

Speaker 1: Oh okay fort lauderdale! Yeah but I was from Jersey, but we missed the four seasons so we moved back so that’s why. Yeah.

Speaker 2: So, and that trip also I mean, uh, Sandra, my wife works for Rosetta stone, Rosetta stone start here, it started here, the very best big, first beginning of the song encouraged.So, and that also, I mean, uh, Sandra, my wife works for Rosetta stone, Rosetta stone start here, it started here, the very  first beginning of Rosetta stone was in Harrisonburg.

Speaker 1: Oh I was not aware of that

Speaker 2: So she is, a Spanish coach, online coach, so they have to work from certain cities. Usually it’s main cities, Miami, New York, Texas, whatever. And this is one of them being the first one that they had. And we said okay, we can, she can still work from home. And I just, uh, we just decided to move here, one year after we were basically moving.

Speaker 1: What made you transition from the cargo business to realty?

Speaker 2: Uh, I again, was in international business for many years. Most of my clients have too much money in their own countries. They can’t spend it over there because tax purposes or that kind of problems. So they started looking at me for some advisors. So I’m trying to see where they can buy or what they can do with the money. I help them to buy many properties in Miami, but without a license, just telling them what to do or where to buy. When I sold the cargo company, I moved here with an idea of one year of a sabbatical year and do nothing and just wind down. And after two or three months I’d say, okay, I can get my license. I got my license and start exploring a little bit more and started looking at properties. I bought one for myself as an investment. It was too good to be true too. So I get really deep into it. Got into it, got my license and thought okay, I can do something on the side to make a profit and you end up with it being way deeper and bigger than I thought. So I just focused completely on it.

Speaker 1: Do you enjoy being a realtor?

Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. Uh, I’m probably not the real, the ideal realtor or, the one that you will figure it out that is a realtor,

Speaker 3: Like the image?

Speaker 2: The image. Yes. The standard, because for example, I tend or try not to work on the weekends, which is not really a feasible for our standard realtor, but um, most of my clients are investors. 90 percent I’ve focused in investing in properties and I have probably , I can say about 50 properties I have sold, that the buyer didn’t see because it’s just numbers. I mean this is a property, I can do this, I need to do this, do this, and then it is going to be rented at that, okay done, make the offer. So it’s kind of a different approach. But I’m getting lately, probably  for the last six months and in the near future, I’m getting involved really deep with the Latino community so that will make me probably have to move a little more on the weekends. But the last, we just added two new realtors to the team and both speak Spanish and they’re both new so probably all the leads that need more attention and more being taken care of over the weekends, they will help me and do that.

Speaker 3: Has being an immigrant and your previous knowledge of the international trades and all that, has that helped you as a realtor or just ever affected you negatively?

Speaker 2: No, it helped me really. I mean, again, most of my clients, at least my first clients were who I started calling and I saying I can do this instead of a meeting. There’s a big difference buying a condo in Miami for $200,000 and one here for 50.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it’s crazy.

Speaker 2: So calling them with that kind of differences and the rent here, it was even bigger than the one that you can have in the $200,000 in Miami. They were starting calling me back so it really helped me, the knowledge, and I’m a number person. I am. I mean it just comes to me. It’s, it’s easy for me. So all that as a  background really helped me. It probably hurts me in the kind of way that I’m really a, again, linked to investments and that kind of unattached to a property. I mean if it will make me profit, I will give it. If no one will sell it I’ll make you sell it. So every time that, I mean, everybody’s attached to a property or thing that the property is worth more because they grow up there or something that is kind of hard for me because I’m, I see numbers, but uh, other than that, it really helped me

Speaker 1: Have you experienced any bias in the workplace or from potential clients due to being an immigrant, so like people’s attitudes towards you or

Speaker 2: Hm? Yes and no. I mean, the environment that we have in this company, it’s completely different as you can imagine in any other company that’s, that needs to be said. It’s a complete difference. One of the owners was born in, uh, Netherlands, uh, and lived all over the world, so he speaks like six different languages. We have people from at least 10 different countries working in the company. So that’s a different, completely different kind of environment. With customers- yes, I have been, I mean, every now and then we do a lot of investment in advertisement in Zillow. So I get phone calls from a lot of people that I don’t know and as soon as they call me on the phone and get my accent or my last name it’s, “uh, I already have a realtor” or “I’ll call you back later”. Yes. But either investors and they hear me ten minutes about numbers then I can flip them over, but uh, I need to fight it. I need to fight it yes.

Speaker 1: Would you say it’s more so or less than in Miami?

Speaker 2: I’m not in same field that I was in Miami, but I will say probably, you can feel it more here probably, because I’m dealing with a lot of, uh, investors from, I mean from, and I want to, I don’t want to say native, but really American people looking for investors for the investments that it’s a completely different scenario than Miami.

Speaker 1: Miami would probably bring people from all over too.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So they, I mean the, they’re used to it.

Speaker 3: Was it more worse say like when you first got here? Because Harrisburg has  grown to be more of a diverse/friendly place.

Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes. When we moved here, I mean, especially now after three years we have a big group of Latino friends, but uh, when we moved here, I mean the city was extremely friendly. We know that at the very beginning. But every now and then we, when you hear someone that is really against you– is really against you.

Speaker 3: Yeah, there’s no medium. They’re stuck with their older values.

Speaker 2: Usually in Florida if they are not really, let’s say, pro-immigrant. They just left you alone. That’s it. Over here, they let you know that they are not willing to let you be basically.

Speaker 1: Um, was there any like significant event that happened either here or in Florida that helped you transition most to American life? We got the big questions here.

Speaker 2: *sigh* I know ha. Uh, it’s not one. Uh, basically the option to have a future here is the big difference. That, uh, every time that I’ll go back to Argentina and speak with my friends or my family and say I can predict, I can know what I’m going to be doing in the next five years, at least, 10 years. That’s a big difference. Back in South America let’s say,  I mean even, I mean Columbia, Argentina, whatever, we can be, you have no idea how much, the value of your money today or tomorrow, or at two months.You know inflation, deflation,

Speaker 1: So it’s hard to like plan ahead?

Speaker 2: Correct. Yes. Because I could have an okay business in Argentina or Colombia, so any, any country in South America, let’s say, as it is today, Chile out of the question basically it’s more stable. But all the rest of South America, you can have a okay business today in two months, something changes, new taxes or money drops or deflation, whatever. You’re gone. You have no idea what’s going to happen. It is completely unstable. So that was a big difference and that was what made me come to America and say I can start, work hard, but make some progress and say okay, in 10 years I want to do this and being able to.

Speaker 1: So it helped you transition because you could organize yourself and plan ahead?

Speaker 2: Mhm, yes, basically.

Speaker 3: Were you originally planning on staying in the U.S.?

Speaker 2: Yes. That was the plan. I have no idea why. I mean, it was, uh, when I came to the states for the first time when I was 14, when my, when my dad was working for Dupont and one of his trips he just brought me in. Okay. I wanted to live there and it was just on the back of my mind all the time. And again, in 2001 when I started flying back and forth, there was also the option to go to Canada. It was probably easier for me to get the visa, whether a student visa or do something different, but I just happened to be Miami. I mean, just I choose.

Speaker 1: From people back in Argentina, what do you think holds them back from coming here and starting a life?

Speaker 2: Uh, it is probably English will be one of, the language barrier could be one of the options. Uh, I studied English in my, in Argentina for 12 years. It’s not that common, but most of the middle class will at least have a knowledge and be able to communicate. But, I mean the idea of a friendship in the states is completely different than the one that we have in Argentina. And even, I guess, that Argentina is completely different to the rest of South America. Front door of my house was not technically open for security purpose, but any friend that was just walking over and just knock on the door. Come on in. Let’s get a coffee, drink mate, or whatever altogether every time. No, no need to call ahead and make an appointment or other kind of stuff that basically we are used to here. I mean it’s really weird that or really not common for you to go over a friend’s house and just knock on the door here.

Speaker 1: That’s true… you got to call..

Speaker 2: Call ahead, oh you’re going  to be home two hours. I’ll be there. So over there is just, I’m here, let’s do something. So I guess that’s one of the bigger issu es and family, being able to have a family, being content with family, that’s probably one of them.

Speaker 3: Do you have any children?

Speaker 2: No.

Speaker 3: Do you plan on having any?

Speaker 2: We tried, we planned, but it didn’t work. We are not going to be crazy about it. We have a beautiful dog.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw that.

Speaker 2: 6 years old

Speaker 1: What’s his or her name?

Speaker 2: His, its Shanty. He’s a rescue. Yes. Black lab rescue from Miami. He came from Miami with us.

Speaker 1: Does he have a lot of energy?

Speaker 2: Yes. I love dogs. I love animals. I trained him myself. So he knows that inside the house is, it has to be mellow.

Speaker 1: Alright. We have a few more questions then we’ll be closing out. But. So what’s your favorite thing about being part of the Harrisonburg community?

Speaker 2: I would say probably friendly.

Speaker 1: People are so nice here. I’m from Jersey and everyone is so mean up there.

Speaker 2: Again, one particular event that happened when we moved in, uh, we moved in September in 2015. The first Thanksgiving were completely alone. No, we didn’t know anybody. What happened was we drove by on that first trip, a year later we just took one of the cars, putting it on a train, came here.  Getting into this office just randomly, rent the property from them and two weeks after just move all the stuff together here, so we didn’t know anybody. So we’re completed by ourselves. Thanksgiving we went to Food Lion and we were willing to buy a turkey breast because only two person. And the guy that was on the shelves in Food Lion took probably 10 minutes to explain us where to go to get it from, Carlisle, or Geroge, i do not remember which one, the outlet, a business that they have, the store that they have. So he took the time to explain and details, in this this corner this is Sheetz, on the left, whatever it is on the right. They really took care and make sure that we were pointed in the right direction. And that was great.

Speaker 1: You don’t see that everywhere.

Speaker 2: No no, I mean if it was Miami they’ll probably tell you “I mean, go to the store”. In Jersey, they’ll probably just ignore you basically

Speaker 3: Half the time you just get no response.

Speaker 2: So that’s the main thing. Being a basically a small city, you know everybody. I mean I, I know people all around and being here only three years. So that’s the main, the main thing you have friends all over and that helps, really.

Speaker 3: What does your community, do you guys do any game nights like for example, or like getting together for any holidays?

Speaker 2: Yes, yes. Uh, we, we are always getting together for, I would say probably once a month just for fun. Having dinner in different places. We have a group of, I would say probably seven to eight couples, kids, dogs and just get together, have dinner, or probably go to a salsa night in the cross keys vineyard. I don’t dance, but my wife does.

Speaker 1: It’s always just fun to listen to it though. Salsa music gets you up

Speaker 2: Yeah, completely. I mean, again my wife is an immigrant, she’s from Colombia so she dances and she loves to dance. I can’t and I don’t want to learn, but I can take her.

Speaker 1: You definitely could haha

Speaker 2: I probably could, but I know I don’t like it.It’s not gonna happen.

Speaker 1: All right. So we’ll make this our last question for this. Um, so, uh, for anyone I guess that it’s thinking about like leaving their country or wants to make that leap of faith to come to America or any country really, uh, what words of advice would you give to them in making that, I guess, jump? Like looking back on your experience.

Speaker 2: Looking back, I will always try to get a helping hand in advance. Try to know where I’m going to land and if there’s going to be uh plan B, let’s say.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so don’t just like put all your eggs in one basket and then you can’t?

Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes. Try to see, uh, what was, what was going to be the plan. Of course everything can change and going back again. Mostly, I mean, some friends back home will ask you, what are you going to be doing? Uh, I cooked pizza for probably two years here. “Why are you doing it in Miami and not doing it back in Argentina?” Because, well, doing this here, I can live. In Argentina, no. That’s the big difference. From as less as I get paid and what he said, “are you going to go and wash dishes for the gringos over there. Why?” Because if I’m doing the dishes, I can live with that money. I can know that I can pay my rent and keep $100 at the end of the month if I want to. I’m not going to be able to do it or project back in Argentina in South America because it’s, you don’t know what’s gonna happen.

Speaker 1: So have a backup plan, have like the resources here?

Speaker 2: Get something in advanced , get something that you could rely on. And that being,  if you have someone that can point you in the right direction, uh, that will make a big difference. Big Difference.

Speaker 3: Okay wait actually one more last. Is there anything you wish or should have done differently in your process of coming here, becoming a citizen, anything?

Speaker 1: Or no regrets?

Speaker 2: No, I mean, but that’s my way of life basically. I did what I thought it was right at the moment and if I made a mistake, I admit it. That’s it. But it was part of the process,yes

Speaker 1: *interjection* And you learned?

Speaker 2: Yes, of defining where I’m going to go next. *pause* No, I wouldn’t change anything. I mean, again, that’s basically my way of life. I mean, I did it at the moment, I took my time, I thought about it, I thought this was the best, and if it wasn’t, okay, next.  Then try to change it. But, but uh, no, change no, no, no, no. I wouldn’t change.

Speaker 1: You wouldn’t be here right now you know.

Speaker 2: Exactly. Probably wouldn’t meet my wife or get the dog that I have now. I mean you can do a lot of different. I would probably be more smart with money, uh, at   the beginning because, I was doing really good in Miami at one point and living a really good life. I mean I won’t regret I won’t change it, but if I did different I will probably be able to stay on track instead of having to downsize and selling the house, return a leased car, all the kind of things that you see easy when you have the money or,I mean, all the advantages that you have being able to live here. For us coming from the, from, from South America, it’s a bit easier now. Now I can lease a Mercedes Benz for $400 a month. That’s cheap basically. I mean there’s a lot of money, but it’s cheap. Okay let’s get it. I mean, why? I mean if you’re saving $500 at the end of month after paying the car. Yes? Well, okay, you probably can afford it, but if  you are not saving the money? Uh, no, why didn’t you get a Corolla and pay 200? Is it basically the same? So that’s the only thing that I’d probably change. Uh, because as soon as you start, start doing better with money, growing, you usually start to spend more and that’s the end of it. At one point it’s going to be, yes, you’re going to pay for it.

Speaker 1&3: Yeah. True. All right. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2: No problem! My pleasure.

 

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Interview with Prof. H Gelfand from James Madison University

Interview with H Gelfand

by Seth Davis

H Gelfand is a history professor at James Madison University. In this interview, he talks about many of the extraordinary things that happened in his life, as well as the incredible people he’s met. We also talk about H’s career as a professor and as a historian.

First Half (30 minutes)

Seth Davis: [00:00:01] All right. This is Seth Davis. I’m here with H. Gelfand He’s a professor at James Madison University. It is Thursday October 25th at three thirty nine p.m., it is a cloudy afternoon. Would you mind just stating your name age and what you do?

H Gelfand: [00:00:17] Yes hello I’m H and I teach in the history department I also teach interdisciplinary liberal studies and honors.

Seth Davis: [00:00:22] Awesome. What brought you to Harrisonburg?

H Gelfand: [00:00:24] I got offered a job here.

Seth Davis: [00:00:26] Really?

H Gelfand: [00:00:27] Yes.

Seth Davis: [00:00:30] Where do you come from originally?

H Gelfand: [00:00:31] I grew up in northern New Jersey right outside of New York City and stay there until I was 17. Do you want me to tell you the whole story?

Seth Davis: [00:00:39] Yes please.

H Gelfand: [00:00:40] Okay so I was there until I was 17 and I graduated high school then I went to University of Georgia where I got my undergraduate degree. Then I went to the University of Kentucky for a year and a half and got my first master’s degree. Then I moved back to Athens Georgia and I worked for a history professor for two years. Then I got my second master’s degree in history. Then I moved to Tucson and went to the University of Arizona where I got my history PhD. And then I moved for one year to Phoenix where I taught at Arizona State University. Then I moved back to Tucson and taught for two years at year of Arizona. And then I started teaching here.

Seth Davis: [00:01:15] Awesome.

H Gelfand: [00:01:16] In a nutshell that’s the whole thing.

Seth Davis: [00:01:18] What made you get into–

H Gelfand: [00:01:19] (Jokingly) No other questions.

Seth Davis: [00:01:20] No other questions!

H Gelfand: [00:01:20] What got me into history? 

Seth Davis: [00:01:23] Yeah.

H Gelfand: [00:01:24] So it’s it’s a strange story but I’ll give you the abbreviated version. So in between what I just told you I had graduated from the University of Kentucky and the degree was in diplomacy and the goal was that I was going to work for something called a Foreign Agriculture Service. And the idea was that I was going to go to Africa and attempt to help people figure out more efficient methods of agriculture so that in drought or I guess you would say like areas stricken with some sort of like horrible problem that we would go over and educate them as to how to plant better how to plant more diverse or something like that. And while I was in the process of training for that the federal government eliminated the entire project. So I was left no job and so I was trying to figure out what to do. So I went back to Athens where I knew a bunch of people and I was trying to find a job and I could not find a job and one day I was walking by the history building at the University of Georgia and there was this light on and it was the office of this professor who I’d had when I was a freshman. So we’re talking like six years before that. So it just sort of out of desperation I went up to his office and I was just like… I think he remembered my face but not my name. No idea who I was and I told him my situation and I said “I just need a job. Do you know of anything?” and he said “No.” And as I was shutting the door he said “Wait come back” and I went back in and he made a phone call and he had this conversation. He said “My best friend in this department just found out today that he has cancer, and he’s going to need somebody to organize all of the papers in his world so that all of it can be organized and given to the library before he dies. Could you do that?” And I’m like “Fuck yeah.”

**omitted**

H Gelfand: [00:06:28] So that’s how it happened.

Seth Davis: [00:06:34] All right. Other than teaching what have you done with your a history degree.

H Gelfand: [00:06:40] Well I’ve done a bu– I guess a bunch of things. So when I went out two years of Arizona, I realized that because getting a PhD is really intense that I was going to need something and kind of take my mind off of the intensity. So I don’t know how or why it occurred to me now but one day, Tucson has this enormous air force base in it because all of the planes that the military stores they’re all stored at this Air Force Base and so there’s tens of thousands of airplanes. So there’s very sort of strange facilities all around the city of Tucson. And so one day I just drove to the Air Force Base, this was way before 9/11 when you could still drive on military bases, and I met up with the the base cultural resources manager and I said to her “I’m H I have a Ph– or I’m getting a PhD. I said Do you have something that I could do as a volunteer job” And she’s like “What do you want to do?” And I’m like “I have no idea what needs to be done?” And she said “Well” she said “We have a couple of old airplane hangars that we’re trying to get preserved. You could write the reports on them” and I’m like “Fuck yeah. So every Friday, because they did a class on Fridays, I just go sit in this tiny little like wooden building at this Air Force Base that was built during World War 2. And I would just go over all of these architectural plans and all these logs and I wrote these two reports. And– then one day just by some weird coincidence this other graduate student said to me, **omitted** “Don’t you do something at the Air Force?” and I said “Yeah.” And he said “Oh because I’m looking for a summer job and I saw this in a printed it out for you.” And it was in advertisement for a job working for the Air Force doing historic preservation work which was exactly what I was doing for the Air Force in Tucson. The only problem was that this was like, on, I don’t know it say, like a Wednesday and the due date was on the previous Monday. So I was like (gestures confusingly). So I called the phone number and I said to the guy you know “I realize some company is late. Have you already filled the position?” And he said “Do you have a fax machine?” And the history department had a fax. So I fax in my resume. And five minutes later he calls back he says “I want you to apply right now.” And I’m like “Okay.” So I apply and I get this job and so what it led to is that all the summers of my PhD I was employed by the Air Force.

Seth Davis: [00:09:07] Wow.

H Gelfand: [00:09:07] And so I got to go to all these Air Force bases around the country. (Walks over to bookshelf) So if you look at all of these books here that have these stealth fighters on them I helped to write or edit all of them.

Seth Davis: [00:09:19] Really?

H Gelfand: [00:09:19] And those were all out of an Air Force Base in New Mexico and then I was at an Air Force Base in Virginia down in Hampton, Virginia. I was down there for a while. And then I was at an Air Force Base outside of Tacoma, Washington. That was one summer, and then one summer I said– spent living in Santa Barbara even though there’s not an air force base there. There is a government contracting firm that was doing a big products live there. And so I got all these publications and I got all this expertise in historic preservation. So that’s part of what I do now on the side of– of the teaching part, is I’m the head of a historic preservation organization in New Jersey.

Seth Davis: [00:10:04] Really?

H Gelfand: [00:10:04] And it’s called the Bergen County Historical Society. That’s that certificate up there.

Seth Davis: [00:10:09] Mm hmm.

H Gelfand: [00:10:09] And basically what I do is I am the person who advocates for all these buildings being kept standing around. This is a county that is across the Hudson River from Manhattan. So it’s the greater New York City metro. So there’s as you might imagine a lot of pressure a development because people want to make a lot of money. So right now, I don’t know if I’ve told you this before, but right now the big project that we’re working on is a place called the Van Gelder studio which I did not even know about. We have a professor in the history department named Lamont King who is a jazz musician and Lamont and I talk about music all the time and one day he gave me this uh, this John Coltrane CD. And he said “You should listen to this.” And I’m like “OK.” And I’m reading all the liner notes and I see it is recorded at this place that’s in a town up in the county where I grew up and I’m like (makes surprised expression). So I called them up and I’m like “What is the deal with the studio?” He goes “It’s the most important music studio in the world.” He’s like “How do you not know about it?” And I’m like “I have no idea.” So the next summer I go to New Jersey and I look the place up in the phone book and I call. And the guy at the time was 92.

Seth Davis: [00:11:16] Really.

H Gelfand: [00:11:16] And he had built a studio in 1958. It’s designed by a couple of students of Frank Lloyd Wright. And it’s believed to be the first music studio that was ever designed and built as a music studio, because most of them are just in other buildings like Sun Studios where Elvis– it’s a little just a storefront.

Seth Davis: [00:11:35] Mm hmm.

H Gelfand: [00:11:35] And then NBC and CBS they did all these jazz and rock and roll recordings in New York City but they’re all just news office buildings. So uh– so yes I’ve been the lead person on this big effort to get the building saved. So it’s a really incredible project. Yeah. John Coltrane recorded what a lot of people consider to be the most important recording of all of music which is called A Love Supreme.

Seth Davis: [00:11:59] Mm hmm.

H Gelfand: [00:11:59] In that studio.

Seth Davis: [00:12:00] Wow.

H Gelfand: [00:12:01] Yeah. And then his last recording which came out just after he died, he was a heroin addict and he– he died the year that I was born. And a couple of months later his final CD came out and it’s called Interstellar Space. And that’s the specific recording that if you read Beyonce, Kendrick Lamar, Dr. Dre, all these people they say this is the piece of music that created hip hop.

Seth Davis: [00:12:28] Really?

H Gelfand: [00:12:28] So it’s just kind of interesting that the tail end of his career the beginning and the end is two big recordings are in that studio. Yeah.

Seth Davis: [00:12:34] I’ve just really gotten into Kendrick Lamar so I should try to check that out.

H Gelfand: [00:12:37] You should check– yeah. If you listen to A Love Supreme it’s very very sort of beautiful interesting recording where he attempts to bring in a lot of tribal music from various places in Africa. It’s a very very interesting recording. Yeah. A lot of people have thought about that but Interstellar Space is a totally different ballgame. You might really like that. It’s a little bit out there that sounds kind of fun.

Seth Davis: [00:12:58] So going back to you where you grew up in New Jersey you might tell me a little bit about your childhood?

H Gelfand: [00:13:04] Well I guess the sort of kicker of it **omitted** is that I’m adopted.

Seth Davis: [00:13:14] Really?

H Gelfand: [00:13:15] Which I did not know. So I basically just you know grew up in this very modest middle class household, older sister, parents. My dad was a superintendent for a school system. My mom was the vice president of a company that makes furniture fabric.

Seth Davis: [00:13:29] Mm hmm.

H Gelfand: [00:13:30] And then I just kind of ordinary middle class New Jersey lifestyle you know nothing particularly fancy. You know like a lot of other people you know went to New York all the time to do– for a while my parents really big into go into Broadway musical so we did a lot of that and, just kind of average lifestyle. Yeah. **omitted**

H Gelfand: [00:13:56] Anyway.

Seth Davis: [00:13:57] All right. Let me find another question to ask. I have a lot so don’t worry. Let’s see.

H Gelfand: [00:14:04] You’re welcome to ask all of them.

Seth Davis: [00:14:07] Huh?

H Gelfand: [00:14:07] You can ask all of them.

Seth Davis: [00:14:09] Okay, let’s see. All right. So you mentioned that these books here you helped write, are there any books that you’ve written yourself?

H Gelfand: [00:14:18] Yeah. It’s called See Change at Annapolis. It’s about the Naval Academy. And uh– yeah that– so one of these summers that I had been working for the Air Force I was working at the Pentagon and, sort of a funny story because the woman who is my supervisor just decided from day one to dislike me. So I called the supervisor and I was just like “I don’t know what to do because this woman apparently is not going to like me.” So he then arranged for me to get a job working for the National Park Service for the summer.

Seth Davis: [00:14:49] Really.

H Gelfand: [00:14:49] Doing the same thing just with the National Park Service. So that turned out to be a much much better job. And the woman who is my boss who has incredible title, her title is the keeper of the National Register of Historic Places. So she is like in charge of making all the decisions about what gets listed or not listed in terms of historic purposes. So once a week I had to go to the Library of Congress and get her books for her. And uh the library Congress is not like most libraries. You make a request and then hours later somebody arrives with your books because they have so many books there everything is in storage. So a couple of weeks before, there is this one day that I go, a couple weeks before this friend of mine, his dad is an Air Force general down at Langley Air Force Base in Hampton, invited me to come down for this big party weekend that they were going to have and he said “Is there any way you can on the way down here can you stop in Annapolis and take this friend of ours up?” and I’m like whatever. So this kid went to the Naval Academy which I’d never been to before so I go in and pick him up and then we have like a three hour ride down to Hampton so we’re chatting the whole way and I’m learning all this stuff at the Naval Academy and then I bring him back. And he says “Have you ever gone on a grand tour of the Naval Academy?” and I said no. He’s like “Well then why don’t I show you around?” So look around and I’m like you know very interesting place I know have you’ve been there before. I’ve been to West Point a bunch of times because it’s right by New York City but, so this one afternoon I’m just waiting and waiting waiting for these fucking books at the Library of Congress. And I needed to pick a topic for my dissertation.

Seth Davis: [00:16:27] Mm hmm.

H Gelfand: [00:16:28] And so I just typed into the computer “Naval Academy” and almost nothing comes up. And then you type in “West Point” and it’s like every year dozens of books are written about West Point because all these war generals came from there and so people are like obsessed with West Point. And then all the world war 2 generals. So the next day I call over to the Naval Academy Library I do what you’re not just do I call the reference desk. And I’m like you know here’s who I am and I need a topic. Do you think– you know the woman said you know “What kind of things you’re interested in?” And I said “I’ve been envisioning doing something either deals with race or ethnicity or gender or maybe all three of them.” And she said “What are you doing at lunchtime tomorrow?” and I said nothing she said “Can you say can you drive over here?” and I said yeah. She said “I’ll arrange for a tour of the archive.” and I said OK. Well as it turned out I got the history librarian. And so I get over there and she and the archivist and I were walking through the archive and I don’t know if you ever seen like a documentary archive it’s basically rafters that are filled with boxes from the floor to the ceiling. And this guy says “Well you know we have like these fifty seven boxes about the integration of black people here that have never been opened. So I have no idea what’s in them.” And we go down the next row and he says “This entire wall is papers about the integration of women. These things have never been opened and I’m like (surprised expression). So I called my dissertation advisor back in Tucson I said “I think I have a topic.” There’s like hundreds of boxes of shit that has not been opened. So– so I ended up living at the Naval Academy for two years and the guy who was the admiral who headed up the school was John McCain’s roommate for all four years. And so I subsequently later on got to know John McCain and John McCain wrote the foreword to the book.

Seth Davis: [00:18:17] That’s amazing.

H Gelfand: [00:18:17] Yeah. So it’s sort of like a really fun topic. Yeah fun project. Living in a place like that was a really extraordinary experience.  It was a very interesting thing. **omitted** It was a very very intense and memorable two years in my life. Yeah. And then the dissertation turned into a book.

Seth Davis: [00:19:03] That’s awesome.

H Gelfand: [00:19:04] Yeah it’s very exciting.

Seth Davis: [00:19:05] So you mentioned you knew John McCain.

H Gelfand: [00:19:08] Yeah.

Seth Davis: [00:19:08] And I see there he wrote you a personal autograph.

H Gelfand: [00:19:10] Yeah.

Seth Davis: [00:19:11] Do you mind, uh, sharing a little bit about any encounters you had with John McCain.

H Gelfand: [00:19:14] Yeah. So what happened is um– so one of the nice things about the PhD program at the University of Arizona is that they allow graduate students to teach their own classes so that when we go on the job market we’ve now told our own classes which is basically how I got the job here because by the time I taught here I’d already taught nine different classes and most– mostly at University of Arizona, few at Arizona State. And so one of the classes that I was teaching every summer is the class called Vietnam and the Cold War, it’s a Vietnam War class. And it’s done in what is called The Summer Precession there which is a three week period. So you go to class every day for four hours Monday through Friday for three weeks. So it’s very intense. Students are only allowed to take one class at a time. And what’s really awesome is, because we’re together all day, they– it’s just a very intense learning experience because you’re just sort of living and breathing only this well because it’s also so short. You can’t really assign very long books. So John McCain has this one of his uh– autobiographies which covers the time of Vietnam. So I assigned it. And so the first year I just sent him a letter and I just said you know ” I’m teaching this class they’re reading your book do you want to come here?” Nothing. Second year, same thing nothing. Third year I don’t know why I did it the third year but I faxed the invitation, and– maybe like two weeks before the class. And then on the last week– I want to say it was like on Wednesday, I get done teaching and I’m leaving the building, and one of the history secretaries comes running after me. She’s like “Don’t leave yet don’t leave” and I’m like “What’s the problem?” She goes she has this piece of paper she goes “You have to call this number” and I’m like “What is this number?” she goes “It’s John McCain’s office” and I’m like oh dear God. So I call and it’s his scheduler up in Phoenix. Phoenix is about about an hour and a half to two hour drive from Tucson. So I call the woman says “McCain is coming tomorrow to Tucson. Do you want him to come to your class?” And I’m like fuck yeah. And she’s like “He can only spend 15 minutes” and I’m like if he can spend 15 seconds that’s great. So I’ll tell you this story because it’s actually so funny. So our class is being held in the business school and the College of Business Arizona is this massive thing. It’s very highly ranked. And so they have a building which is sort of like a a big rectangle and there is this huge outdoor atrium in the middle. And it has like all these palm trees and it has like a waterfall and a pond and all this stuff. It’s very beautiful. And our classroom was off of this courtyard. And, uh, but– that sort of sunk it into the ground so to get to our classroom you have to actually enter from the floor above which is facing the street. So I get all dressed up. I’m outside by the street waiting for McCain to show up. I have no idea how McCain is showing because I don’t know what the protocol is for a senator coming into campus. So I don’t know if there’s gonna be like a police escort or a helicopter I have no idea what’s going to happen. So I’m waiting and waiting and all the sudden like 10 cop cars come like, sirens full blast come pull up before the building and these dudes all go running in the building and I’m like holy shit this is awesome. So I said to one of them. I said “Are you here for John McCain?” And he goes “No I’m here for the naked guy.” I have no idea what that means I’m just like OK. And then this Honda Accord pulls up and out pops John McCain and McCain I’d like– I’m like– Seth I’m just like totally dumbfounded because there he is.

Seth Davis: [00:22:52] Yeah.

H Gelfand: [00:22:53] I’d seen it on TV like a million times. And he was a lot shorter and a lot more crippled than I had anticipated he would be. And so I walked up to him and I shook his hand and he said “What’s with all the cop cars?” And I said “I’m not really sure exactly. I thought maybe they’re coming for you.” and he’s like “For me?” and he’s sort of laughing he’s like “I’m not that important.” Like, OK. So we go up these stairs into the building and then down the stairs. And when we are approaching the waterfall part. There’s this homeless dude who just decided to take his clothes off and just go swimming in this pond. So as McCain and I are walking by the guy is like this (mimics being handcuffed) junk out right in front of us. And McCain just stops and he looks at me and he says “You know, I’ve been a guest at Arizona State University many times. They’ve never arranged to have a naked guy to greet me.” I was just like– And at that moment I knew that he was going to be like totally awesome.

Seth Davis: [00:23:50] Yeah.

H Gelfand: [00:23:52] So uh– so instead of spending the 15 minutes he spent the entire four hours with our class.

Seth Davis: [00:23:57] Wow.

H Gelfand: [00:23:57] And his son if you saw, I don’t know if you watched the funeral, the son that was sitting with his wife who is in the Navy now he was graduating high school that night.

Seth Davis: [00:24:05] Oh really.

H Gelfand: [00:24:05] And McCain was late to the graduation because he was in my class.

Seth Davis: [00:24:08] Wow.

H Gelfand: [00:24:09] And he first lectured. And then when he got done lecturing his assistant who drove him she was like sort of hinting that they needed to leave to get on the road back to Phoenix. And he comes up to me he whispers in my ear and he says “Do you mind if I talked to all of your students individually?” And I’m like “I’m sure they would love it.” They all had their books. And so he said at a desk and each one of them came and sat, talked to him face and he asked you know who are you, where are you from, what’s your major, what’s your life plan. He signed your books and up until he just died two of those students were still working for him, one in Phoenix and one in DC. That’s how fucking nice he was. So on the way out he said to me “I didn’t even ask, like, who are you, what do you do?” and I said “I’m a history PhD student.” And he said “What are you studying?” And I said “Well I’m writing my dissertation it’s about the Naval Academy.” And he goes “Do you know that I went there?” and I’m like “Yeah because your roommate is the guy that ran the school for the two years” and he’s like “You know Chuck Larson?” And I’m like “Yeah.” And then he looked at me all funny he was like “Oh..” I was like “…Okay whatever.” And he said if you ever write it up as a book I’ll write the foreword to the book. So he wrote the foreword to the book.

Seth Davis: [00:25:18] That’s amazing.

H Gelfand: [00:25:20] So since this woman from my class got hired as one of his staffers every time he came to Tucson she would email me and say McCain’s gonna be here/there whatever. So I have all this shit with his signature on it. I have books, T-shirts, pictures, all the stuff. So sometimes he was just going to like an Elks Lodge. Sometimes he was going to like speak to some class. Sometimes he was just going to a bookstore or whatever and I would always go. And every time that he saw me. I don’t think he had any idea what my name was. But he would go like this, he would go “You’re the Naval Academy guy I know you!” And I’m like “Yeah!” And he would say, he would always ask the same thing he would say “Tell me a story that didn’t end up in the book.”

Seth Davis: [00:26:00] Really.

H Gelfand: [00:26:01] And then I would just tell him some random story. And so the last time I saw him, which was the last conversation I ever had with him he said “Tell me a story that I don’t know– what was not in the book.”

[00:26:10] And I said well I said your roommate was Chuck Larson and Larson was the admiral who was running the Naval Academy and I said I wrote a letter to Admiral Larson asking if I could come do all this research at the Naval Academy, and in the letter I asked to go through something called the pleeb summer which is like the initial training that all the kids there go through. And I thought it would be as an outsider a really quick and easy way for me to learn everything because it’s simultaneously like a total military indoctrination, a total Naval Academy education, like the whole overview fo the history. And everyday you run like eight miles and you do like eight million push ups and sit ups. And I’m, you know, in relatively good shape and this was also like 20 years ago so I was in much better shape then. And I didn’t hear anything back for like a month. And finally the department head at the University of Arizona she said “Did you ever hear back?” And I said no and she called out there and the next day I got this letter from Admiral Larson telling me you can come and so Larson later told me that the delay was that he thought that the letter was a joke because he couldn’t believe somebody was volunteering to go through the pleeb summer. So he was sharing this letter with all these people as if it was a joke and finally somebody said you know this actually might be serious. And then my boss called and said you know the kid was waiting to find out if you can come out there or not. So I told McCain this whole story. He goes I told you to tell me a story I didn’t know, I already knew that story.” I’m like “You knew that story?” He said “I knew that story the day I met you” and “I’m like you did?” He was like “Because Chuck called me up and said ‘this crazy person from Arizona wants to come here to do research what do I do about this.'” And he read the letter to McCain, and McCain said well he must be serious about it so let him come. So he also inadvertently ended up being in part responsible for my being even able to go there.

Seth Davis: [00:28:02] That’s amazing.

H Gelfand: [00:28:03] Yeah. So you see now I got really emotional when he died because–

Seth Davis: [00:28:08] Yeah.

H Gelfand: [00:28:08] You know even though he’s not somebody I had, exactly, a personal interaction with on a regular basis– nice enough. And then, Seth uh, like a week after he died his wife’s secretary called.

Seth Davis: [00:28:19] Yeah.

H Gelfand: [00:28:21] And says we’re going through all his papers do you want the papers that have your name on the file and I’m like “My name is on it?” So what they sent me this is a copy of the last version of the book before it got published so that he could read the book and then write the foreword from it.

Seth Davis: [00:28:41] No way.

H Gelfand: [00:28:42] So he literally touched all this, but anyway.

Seth Davis: [00:28:45] Oh my gosh.

H Gelfand: [00:28:46] So it was really funny. So I said yes and then one day one of the secretaries in the department goes “Oh my God John McCain sent you something and he’s dead” and I’m like–

Seth Davis: [00:28:57] From beyond the grave.

H Gelfand: [00:28:57] Yes from beyond the grave I got mail from John McCain.

Seth Davis: [00:29:01] He truly was a once in a lifetime person.

H Gelfand: [00:29:03] Yeah. A really really super guy. I didn’t agree with most of his politics but–

Seth Davis: [00:29:06] Yeah.

H Gelfand: [00:29:07] You know, that’s neither here nor there. He was just at the end of it just a very nice person.

Seth Davis: [00:29:12] Yeah. Sounds like it. So it sounds like you really you know look up to John McCain and draw inspiration from him, are there– is there anyone else that you sort of, you know, connect with, draw inspiration from?

H Gelfand: [00:29:25] Sure lots of people. So Seth, uh do you see that broken door behind the door.

Seth Davis: [00:29:29] Yes.

H Gelfand: [00:29:29] So that door came from the house of a guy named Charles Gatewood, have you ever heard Charles Gatewood?

Seth Davis: [00:29:35] I have not.

H Gelfand: [00:29:37] So do you know, uh, the Indian leader who’s named Geronimo.

Seth Davis: [00:29:40] Mm-mm. Oh wait yes I do.

H Gelfand: [00:29:41] Yeah. So Geronimo very famously kept the American army chasing him for a decade in Arizona, New Mexico, and in Mexico. And there was an Army officer who befriended him he was named Charles Gatewood and befriended him to such a degree that he learned the Cheracow Apache language and used to hang out with Geronimo in Geronimo’s camp.

Seth Davis: [00:30:03] Really.

H Gelfand: [00:30:03] And when it was– the sort of pressure was on for Geronimo to surrender, he’s the individual who rode horseback about thirty-five miles found Geronimo in a canyon and convinced Geronimo to surrender. And that guy was from Harrisonburg.

Seth Davis: [00:30:17] No way.

Second Half (28 minutes)

H Gelfand: [00:00:00] And that door is from his house.

Seth Davis: [00:00:03] Wow.

H Gelfand: [00:00:03] So when the guy who owns it was doing some work in the house he called me up and said “I’m going to get rid of this trashy door do you want it and I was like “Of course.” So there it sits. Yeah. So Gatewood, he’s one of the few people– he was from Harrisonburg, he graduated from West Point, and he never killed an Indian person because he was so religious. I’m not terribly religious but his religious sentiment was such that you love people you don’t kill people. So he went to all this extent to learn the language and then his papers are actually kept at the University of Arizona, so when I was out there one summer I read all of the papers. He was out in all these different little towns in Arizona collecting money for donations for the Cheracowa Apache.

Seth Davis: [00:00:50] That’s amazing.

H Gelfand: [00:00:51] Anyway so that’s somebody who inspires me a great deal. 

**omitted**

H Gelfand: [00:03:42] Yeah. And then I guess you know there’s like this whole host of other people

**omitted**

Seth Davis: [00:09:43] Yeah. So as a– as an historian what do you think is the importance of oral history? Do you think it’s– do you think it’s as credible as written history, and do you think that it should be something that should be looked into more?

H Gelfand: [00:10:00] Well for that dissertation I interviewed 350 people, roughly, at the Naval Academy. So yeah I’m very big on oral history especially where we are today when people don’t write letters anymore and paperwork is just simply not generated anymore. Andrew (Andrew is one of H’s former students who sat in for the latter half of the interview) is sitting over there in front of those two blue containers that are filled with all these photocopies of things that I got from the archives at the Naval Academy. But people don’t print that shit up anymore. So, when you look at today’s world where we are in terms of communication oral history becomes very very important because that is mostly the only way you’re ever going to get to know stories.

Seth Davis: [00:10:39] Mm-Hmm.

H Gelfand: [00:10:39] But the other thing that I really like about it is it really brings a human face into archival material. So for example like one of things I was doing– I was intending to, uh,  to interview all of the people who were in the top two positions at the Naval Academy from 1949 when I started until 2000 when I finished. And when you read people’s papers you know you sort of get a sense of them a little bit but mostly not. Then when you sit one on one with them, it all kind of starts coming together and you sort of get a sense from what people tell you, are they bullshitting you or they’re being serious, do they drink Kool-Aid, you know. You really get an idea of who they are. And so that’s like one of the great joys that I have had as a historian is doing oral history projects because it really allows you to talk to people who can fill in answers to the questions that you have. We can tell you the details that are not written down. Just as an example, like, Gloria Steinem was the first woman ever invited to the Naval Academy. Do you know who Gloria Steinem is?

Seth Davis: [00:11:43] I’ve heard the name.

H Gelfand: [00:11:44] She is a very famous feminist who started the most important women’s magazine it’s called Ms Magazine.

Seth Davis: [00:11:51] Okay.

H Gelfand: [00:11:52] And she was very famous. She– for a writing assignment she dressed up as a Playboy bunny for one of Hugh Hefner’s Playboy Clubs and served as a waitress. You asked about my earlier life, my parents used to take me to the Playboy clubs around New York City as a little child. I can remember the whole thing so vividly. As a little kid it was you know not as much a sexual thing it’s just like there’s women dressed up as rabbits like what’s the deal bringing around drinks and bringing me Shirley Temples and it was all very exciting. I can remember that so vividly. So she did that and then wrote a series of articles that exposed the sexual harassment, the rape that went on with this whole system and then subsequently became this very famous feminist leader. So when I found in the paper that she was the first woman to be invited I sent her a letter and I was like “Is there any way that I can interview you?” And she was like “Of course!” And she was like she called me up and it was the most amazing thing. It’s not very often that I get to interview like super famous people. And she’s like she was laughing she said “In a million years I would never have remembered that I even went to the Naval Academy.” And in order to rile everybody up it’s this very very famous moment in the history of the Naval Academy because they got the entire student body together in an auditorium. And when she saw that it was all guys and there was literally not another woman. The first thing she said it was to get everybody riled up. She said quote “There is no job I can think of that requires a penis or a vagina.” And then there’s just this uproar, people booing like “What the fuck!” and all this stuff.

Seth Davis: [00:13:34] Yeah.

H Gelfand: [00:13:35] And all of the guys who were there very very vividly remember it. The admiral who was the head of the school at the time very vividly remembered the whole thing. And then I interviewed her and she dumps forward all of this information which none of them share with me about the experience and I’m like “Fuck.” And it was great we were on the phone for like two hours. The next day she calls me back again because the conversation just kind of like evoked all these other memories about that day. So I would know none of that without having had done that oral history. And on the other side I got, I think I calculated it was about a 14 percent reply rate to the letters that I sent requesting interviews.

Seth Davis: [00:14:15] Wow.

H Gelfand: [00:14:15] And then as soon as that book got published I– somewhere in the drawer here I have the hate mail file. All these people are like “You’ve got this story wrong!” “Why the fuck did you say this when it was that!” And they were all people that I’d asked for interviews. So I handled them all letters back and I said “I’m sorry that you don’t feel that this is how it happened.” I said, that’s part of what’s in those blue folders I kept carbon copies of everything I sent out, I said “On like April 24th of 1999 I sent you a letter asking for an interview you never replied. So therefore I cannot know this.” So that just sort of underscores how important it is to we get people– now they may or may not be telling you the truth but at least you’re gonna get some ideas.

Seth Davis: [00:14:59] Exactly .

H Gelfand: [00:14:59] Like the very first guy who I interviewed was the the dean of students when women came and he was fairly old at the time he lived in some suburb of D.C. and I drove out to his house and he was very lovely. We sat down on his back porch. He made a sweet tea. And he looked at me and he said “I’ve read everything you sent me and this is what I don’t understand.” And I said OK. With a smile on his face he says “You’re making women out to seem like some big deal. We were told they were coming. We made it work. So why do we have any questions?” And I know damn well women were raped, sexually harassed, the whole nine yards and he’s acting like none of it happened. And I’m like “You really don’t think any of those things happened?” He’s like “If any of that had happened I would have known about it!”

Seth Davis: [00:15:46] All right.

H Gelfand: [00:15:48] So yes I do think oral history is incredibly important but– on its ow, may not help you that much when it’s backed up with archival material, the newspapers then it’s very very useful. Very useful.

Seth Davis: [00:16:01] Only two more questions left. The next one is, as a professor what is one thing that you hope all of your students take away from your class?

H Gelfand: [00:16:11] Now the one thing that they’re not going to take away is any information because they’re all going to brain dump the information. So basically I think at this stage of my teaching career– however many years, the first class I taught was in 2000 so or 18 years in– is to try to encourage people to read and to think for themselves. Those are the two most important things that really I can do. Because most people are not going remember– Andrew took like seven classes with me, Andrew doesn’t remember a single fucking thing that he learned in my classes. I can guarantee you. But, people need to be reminded all the time to keep reading and keep learning. The knowledge base continues to expand exponentially every hour. And in order to keep on top of things you need to keep reading all this stuff. And this is what I would say. This is what is the most helpful thing that I can try to do to encourage people. But I think also, you know, then– as you have probably gathered there are some students with whom I develop personal interactions because they’re just awesome people. And with those people I would say I’m trying to encourage them to live good lives. You know, do interesting things. This is the only thing about my life which has been really awesome, is that most of the time– not all of them but most of the time– when given unusual opportunities I’ve just gone with the flow and just done them. And as a result I’ve ended up meeting a whole bunch of interesting people, interacting with others, having strange and interesting interactions. Because, you know what, when you put yourself out there things happen and that’s an important life lesson it’s the only thing that has really been interesting about my life. When I look back, like if I were to die today and look back at all the things that were interesting, they’ve all been about the moments where I was just like fuck it and just go balls out and do whatever. Because–.

Seth Davis: [00:17:59] Yeah.

H Gelfand: [00:18:00] If you’re given an opportunity and you don’t take it what might happen you know and all sorts of things happen. You meet people who you know have these things take place it’s very interesting. That was not a very good answer.

Seth Davis: [00:18:13] That was a very good answer.

H Gelfand: [00:18:15] I don’t know.

Seth Davis: [00:18:15] Alright so my last question is: What do you want people to take away from your story? What do you want the listeners to hear and get from your story?

H Gelfand: [00:18:22] From my story?

Seth Davis: [00:18:23] Yes.

H Gelfand: [00:18:26] Just keep exploring. Because you never know what you’re going to learn about yourself. And keep talking to people who knew you when you were young and knew you along the way. Because, in the process of the whole thing about finding out about my adoption, I found out, just by asking all the people that were aware of it, things and pieced together a lot more than I knew because everybody had a little tiny pieces. But just keep talking to people because– this is one of the things that I find interesting like this is an example. A few years ago I started talking to people randomly on the subway in New York. Now I do it all the fucking time. And then what you find out is that you have all these unusual things in common with people that you would never know if you didn’t just simply sit and talk to people. And then you end up with people that you interact with later on. This is how– half the people I’m friends with on Twitter or Instagram how I know them. Like I– Seth I’ll give you an example. One last story. OK so I don’t even think I told Andrew this story but so in August I was giving this conference paper at a place called Santa Clara University out in California. And I was gonna be there for enough days that I was going to have to have some kind of transportation. Normally one– if you’re in a big city you just used public transit, if you’re not going to be in a big city you’ve got a car or whatever. You provide a budget to JMU, JMU pays for all of it whatever. So San Jose doesn’t really have very good public transit. And I knew that, because the conference is gonna go late in the day and there’s no real restaurant scene around the campus or I was staying, I was gonna wanna get somehow to the downtown of San Jose to eat at restaurants. So I proposed getting a bike. So JMU finally agreed to let me get a bike. I rented a bike. And it was fucking awesome. And so one of the things that I was just sort of like doing was, everyday as soon as the conference was over I got on the bike– well, I went and changed I got rid of the tie– and then I plotted from (gets up and points at a map of San Jose) basically from Santa Clara to the downtown of San Jose which was about six miles. Plotted a different route each day. The destination was the same restaurant because this restaurant, I was obsessed with, a taco restaurant. It was just so fucking good. And then every night afterward I just went and tooled around in San Jose and just explored. So the last night that I was there it was a Saturday night. I get done with dinner I’m all excited about life. Well, San Jose State University is this huge ca– college campus in the downtown of San Jose. And I’ve taught about it. I’ve read about it. There’s a lot of significant and important people went to school there. For example Gaylord Nelson, the founder of Earth Day, went to school there. A lot of interesting people. So I go over there and I’m just kind of like astounded because the place is stunningly beautiful. So I’m just like on the bike and I’m just like taking it all in. And somebody taps me on the shoulder, and it’s a group of Punjabi kids, and they want to know if I’ll play cricket with them. And I’d like and they’ve got the whole paddle and everything and I’m like “I would be happy to watch you play. But I do not know anything about it” but. Anyway they come watch us. And they barely speak English. They were just students there and they were awesome. And we had this really great time and I was like very stoked about life. So I hang out with them for a little while and then I notice that it’s going to be coming to about the time of the sunset and the bay area is surrounded by mountains and I’m thinking to myself it would be beautiful. So I’m trying to figure out how can I get up high so I can see above the buildings. So I see this parking garage so I hike up with the bike to the top of this parking garage and just watch the sun go down, it’s glowing on all the mountains and I’m like– so beautiful, this place. And I’m hearing this noise that sounds like construction noise and I’m like why would there be construction on Saturday. Well it turns out it’s not construction noise. It turns out it’s this group of about 80 kids half students half alumni from San Jose State who are in this organization preparing for this Ganesh festival. This is in August. The Ganesh festival is in September. So they all have these enormous drums that are made out of steel, like basically like drums. Sort of like Jamaican which is much bigger and they have all of these animal hides that are all covered with Sanskrit and they’re all just like pounding. I’ve never heard anything like this in unison that’s what the noises that I thought was construction was.

Seth Davis: [00:23:01] Wow.

H Gelfand: [00:23:01] So half of them are drumming. The other half are doing this dance which is unlike anything else and I’m just standing there going “What the fuck am I looking at here.” It was like mesmer- it was so loud, because it was in between buildings, that it was making my heart skip. And it was just like I was in a trance and they stopped to take a break. And these kids came over to me and they’re like “We don’t ever have an audience who are you?” and I’m like “I’m just a guy from the East Coast and I’m here” and they’re like “And you came here?” and I’m like “Yeah” and they’re like “What the fuck.” I’m like “I know.” And I’m like “What are you doing?” and they explained the whole thing to me and it’s the only group of musicians that performs this particular thing in North America.

Seth Davis: [00:23:41] Wow.

H Gelfand: [00:23:42] And because they’re the only one and it’s in the middle of Silicon Valley– so it’s all these people from India– they are live broadcast back to India. And I’m like what the fuck is so crazy. So they get done. I go on my way. I go a few buildings over and I come upon this statue and I’m like– I’m just mesmerized you know the famous Black power salute at the 1968 Mexico City Olympics.

Seth Davis: [00:24:07] Yeah.

H Gelfand: [00:24:07] The two dudes who are black were students San Jose State at the time so the center of the campus is this like three-times-larger-than-life statue of them. And it’s amazing. This is so fucking cool. And I’m like standing there and I’m just like taking it in and some dude taps me on the shoulder and I turn around and is this African-American guy. And he goes “Can I ask who you are and what you’re doing?” I’m like Yeah. And I told him. And he’s like “So let me get this straight. You came all the way here. You’ve got a bike. And now you’re just tooling around on our campus?” and I’m like “Yeah.” And I’m like “Who are you?” and he goes “Oh I’m actually kind of doing the same thing you’re doing.” And I’m like “What!” And he goes “Yeah!” And I’m like “What’s your deal?” And he goes “Well I grew up in Tucson.” and I’m like– (makes surprised expression) which is my adopted hometown– and I’m like “What?” And he goes “Yeah I have a computer science degree from the University of Arizona and I work for Intel and I work,” and he points to this building he goes “I work in that building and I look out at this campus every day. And tonight was the night to come after work and kind of tool around on the campus.” So we get into this huge conversation. He has an Instagram account that’s called everyday encounters which is all about exactly what I’m talking about, which is just randomly talking to people. So we sit down on the lawn in front of this big statue of the Black Power statue and he’s doing exactly what you’re doing. Interviews me puts me on Instagram.

Seth Davis: [00:25:30] Really.

H Gelfand: [00:25:30] And then we go on our way. And I’m just like, I’m on the bike and it’s now pretty late at night and it’s Saturday night and I’m just like, this has been one of the strangest evenings of my life. And I’m just trying to like take the whole thing. And so I’m on a side street and I’m about ready to get onto the main street through the downtown of San Jose which is a big city and then ride that back to the campus. So I’m at this traffic light and all of a sudden, this mass of probably two to three hundred people on scooters, skateboards, rollerblades, bikes, all come by. Everybody is wearing like you know those like necklaces that are like neon color. And some people are pushing baby strollers and there’s music blaring and I’m like “What the fuck!” So I have no idea what this is the light changes I pedal as fast as possible I catch up to the end of this mass of people. And I’m like riding alongside of these two women that are in a tandem bike and I’m like “What is thi?” And they’re like “We don’t know we’re just from Germany and we just saw these people riding so we joined them.” I’m like “What the fuck.” So I go further up and this guy says “Oh this is called San Jose Skate Night.” And I’m like “What the fuck is San Jose Skate Night?” And the guy goes “Every Saturday, just, we’re given a– on, there’s a Facebook page you can look it up it’s just called San Jose Skate Night– and the guy who runs it says “Meet at this intersection.” And hundreds of people show up who do not know each other. Some of them are high. Some are not high. Some have babies. Some of them are kids. Some are in costume. Some are like professional cyclists. And just as a communal activity they ride three or four miles together through the downtown of San Jose. It’s always a different route. Never the same people. So I just rode around with them. And everybody was like “Who are you?” I’m just like look at all these people. I got back to the dorm room that night and it was just like, what in the name of God. If I had not gotten this bicycle this entire evening would not have happened. And here just I interacted with people from all over the world in fucking San Jose. It was one of the most memorable nights of my entire life. That’s what I’m talking about when I say be open to when random things happen. Just go with it because you never know what is going to happen.

Seth Davis: [00:27:47] Yeah.

H Gelfand: [00:27:47] Now I’ll probably never see or talk to any of those people ever again.

Seth Davis: [00:27:50] But at least you have the experience

H Gelfand: [00:27:51] But it was a moment.

Seth Davis: [00:27:51] Yeah.

H Gelfand: [00:27:52] You know a moment of interaction with fellow humans.

Seth Davis: [00:27:56] That’s amazing. Thank you very much for sure.

H Gelfand: [00:27:57] You’re very welcome Seth. It has been a pleasure interviewing you.

H Gelfand: [00:28:00] And you.

Seth Davis: [00:28:01] Thank you very much.

interview with H-with omissions-1mgdr39

Interview with Amy Maca

Interview with Amy Maca

by Nancy Haugh

Amy Maca (pictured in the back right) is a first year, Guatemalan-American student at James Madison University. She’s studying Health Sciences on a Pre-Med track with ambitions to go to medical school at Johns Hopkins University. Ultimately, she’s extremely passionate about providing health care those in need.

Journey to the U.S.

In a subversion of immigrant stereotypes, Amy’s physical journey from Guatemala City, Guatemala to Northern Virginia was a plane ride. In 2005, when Amy was 6 years old, her father realized that he had a calling from God to come to the U.S. and serve the Christian Latinx community there. The family had an uncle living in Northern Virginia who expressed that they would be able to stay with him. However, upon arriving in the U.S., those plans fell through and Amy’s family struggled to establish themselves. Fortunately, they were able to find a strong Christian Latinx community in Northern Virginia.

Early Life

Growing up, Amy imagined the U.S. as full of tall, blonde-haired, blue-eyed people that could all go to Disney World. She credits these misconceptions to being a little spoiled by her relatives with toys from the U.S., and depictions of Americans she saw in the media when she was younger. When she first arrived in the U.S., she describes the difficulty she faced assimilating to American culture. Whereas in Guatemala she didn’t face as much pressure to look or even eat a certain way, in the U.S. it seemed like physical appearance dictated morality. Amy mentions the hardships and anxieties she faced public schools in the U.S., citing that middle and high school were especially hard because it felt like she was never able to establish relationships in one place. In terms of life in Guatemala and historic trends of immigration, Amy was largely not directly effected by the Guatemalan Civil War that lasted from 1960-1996. Her parents on the other hand, did grow up during this time of violence and instability.

Life in Harrisonburg

Amy is the first in her family to attend a university and thus faces the pressures that come with such a title. In her interview, she points to the fact that it was especially hard to move away from her family because of how close they are. Despite this, she knew she wanted to attend JMU and was determined to make it happen. Although she’d like to explore a little more of the town, she’s ultimately proud of how far she’s come in getting to JMU. An active member of LSA, Amy loves being able to hang out with her friends during her breaks between studying.

A Message to Her Younger Self

The interview ends with Amy sending a message to her younger self to live freely and openly without the worrying about the criticisms of others. She vividly remembers disliking features of her own body because they weren’t in line with euro-centric beauty standards. Because of this, she wants her younger self to know that it is ok to exist as she is, just do you!

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Interview of Paola Iturbide

Interview with Paola Iturbide

by Colby Mocarski

The following interview is between myself and Paola Iturbide, who came to Harrisonburg, Virginia from Guadalajara, Mexico. During our interview we discussed her reasoning for coming to the United States, how her experiences have been while here, and what her plans are when she returns to Mexico. I chose to interview Paola, because she is a younger perspective on immigration in the modern world.

INTERVIEW –

Colby Mocarski: [00:00:00] Hi my name is Colby Mocarski. I am a senior at James Madison University and today I will be interviewing Paola Iturbide. And so my first question is can you tell me your age and something about you?

Paola Iturbide: [00:00:16] I’m 25 years old. I was born in San Diego, California. But I moved to Mexico where my parents lived since I was a baby. My parents used to live in Mexico City. They met there. Then they moved to Tijuana. And they decided to just have me in the United States so I can have more opportunities like in the future. And so I do. I was just born there. But live in Mexico all my life and now I live in the States.

Colby Mocarski: [00:00:50] OK so can you tell me some about your childhood or your education?

Paola Iturbide: [00:00:56] My childhood I grew up in Guadalajara, Mexico. I was in a Catholic school all girls school and my friends were middle high class so they had money to give me the location that I needed and I learned English in school.

Colby Mocarski: [00:01:16] So you said that you went to a Catholic school so that was that your religion growing up?

Paola Iturbide: [00:01:22] Yeah. Because a lot of people in Mexico are Catholic. That’s like the main religion. So I grew up Catholic and I’m Catholic and I was raised in a Catholic school.

Colby Mocarski: [00:01:36] So what made you want to come to the United States?

Paola Iturbide: [00:01:41] The first thing is like there’s no jobs in Mexico because I mean I study a career. But I saw a lot of options but they don’t pay you well. You have to have a connection or know someone in the government to have a well-paid job. And also I did and say I did and I study a lot. Also I had to study more to be someone I think I was a little lazy in school. So that also was the problem. If you put a lot of effort in school you can be successful in Mexico. What a lot of people are lazy and that’s why they come to the United States because they think it’s gonna be easier. But I think you have to work at the same level that you will do it in Mexico or in the States.

Colby Mocarski: [00:02:44] What made you choose Harrisonburg when you came to the United States?

Paola Iturbide: [00:02:47] Because my sister and is in Bridgewater and I came with her and it was easier for me because she knew people because coming to United States not knowing anyone it’s difficult it’s difficult living here it’s difficult.

Colby Mocarski: [00:03:02] What what was your first initial reaction of Harrisonburg? Did you like it right away? Did you feel like you fit into the community right away?

Paola Iturbide: [00:03:20] I think it’s warm because I came from a big city so I prefer big cities. I fall in love withD.C. This is like not for me because it’s like living in a ranch but it’s really pretty. Just like for coming on a vacation I mean and people here are nice. I think there’s a little bit of racism racism. I think there is but I mean it’s it’s ok living here. I’m just not like a country girl.

Colby Mocarski: [00:03:53] So how was it finding a job in Harrisonburg?

Paola Iturbide: [00:03:58] It was so easy. That’s the thing of the United States. It’s really easy finding any job well me because I have papers but I don’t know the people that are immigrants. I work for a week in a restaurant in a Mexican restaurant. The name is El Charo they get it. They they just have immigrants and they treat them like slaves. They made them work all day and they paid them nothing. Just the tips from people and I think people that come here as an immigrant it’s not worth it because they are treated like slaves. You have to have papers to be OK here or on have a decent job. If you don’t have papers is horrible. You are surviving, just surviving and maybe you are living a little better. We maybe in Mexico didn’t have a TV and you have a TV here with you. You have to pay it every month and you work here in the States. People that don’t have papers they work like slaves. They live better but they are their slaves.

Colby Mocarski: [00:05:04] So I know you came here also trying to get a certification to be a translator. Is that something that was offered in Mexico too?

Paola Iturbide: [00:05:16] No I just like look in here and I saw that they have the certification. I just did it.

Colby Mocarski: [00:05:25] So what is like your long term goals? Like what jobs do you want? Do You see you staying here, or going back to Mexico full time?

Paola Iturbide: [00:05:35] I mean if I pass the exam to be a translator. My plan my initial plan was to move here and find a better job, because having a job in Five Guys that mean you earn a lot but if you save it and you go back to Mexico. But here things are so expensive that if you want to leave here you have to have a better job than Five Guys cook. You know what my goal to have my certificate and to work in a hospital and get paid minimum 30 dollars per hour so you can be fine you know because if you have like a job you are not going to leave fine. You’re going to just survive. So while not my plan was coming here study that if I pass it I was going to leave close to D.C. because I fell in love with D.C. But now my ex-boyfriend is talking to me again. We’re going to meet each other and if any if what he proposed I’m going back to Mexico because he has a lot of money so I’m gonna have to worry you know. But if he doesn’t propose in New York I won’t. I’m going to come back and work as a translator in the hospital because in here I will have a decent life. And in Mexico I will be a slave just to survive. Like working in an office eight hours to get paid. I don’t know. Two hundred dollars per month. So it’s nothing. Per day I will get paid like 30 bucks.

Colby Mocarski: [00:07:17] So you said you worked at Five Guys did you ever feel like not being an American has affected you in your workplace?

Paola Iturbide: [00:07:27] No I don’t think so because there’s Mexicans there in five days. I mean Spanish speaking people. There are a lot of Spanish speaking people here.

Colby Mocarski: [00:07:39] So do you think that there are Americans that work in five guys that treat you differently because you are aren’t American?

Paola Iturbide: [00:07:48] No.

Colby Mocarski: [00:07:51] So how is Harrisonburg changed since you moved here. Have you seen any big differences or anything?

[00:08:01] Yeah I mean just because I had a car in Mexico and I have lived with my parents I was fine but what I saw the poor people that live in Mexico is a huge difference here because I’m going to put an example. The bosses here have air conditioner and in Mexico people have to wait in lines to get on the bus and they go squish. They have to walk thousands of miles to get to their jobs. And here is more access to all or it’s more accessible to have a car than in Mexico is impossible because of they because of what they get paid in there. In any job because jobs there if you don’t have a connection or if you know someone if you come from a wealthy family you screwed your whole life! Or you are very smart to become a successful doctor or you know in here you’re not that smart you can work two jobs and you are going to survive and live decently we have to be really smart to stay or to, to do it in Mexico.

Colby Mocarski: [00:09:20] So do you feel like there is a community within a community of immigrants in Harrisonburg because for example JMU has over 200 different countries represented within our campus. So do you think there’s a community within a community of immigrant students or people?

Paola Iturbide: [00:09:45] Yeah. There’s a lot of immigrants here because they told me Harrisonburg is the city that you don’t get deported at deported. I don’t know why. So they call their safe place so that’s why immigrants come here because if you don’t have papers you don’t get deported. That’s why there is a huge community of immigrants.

Colby Mocarski: [00:10:07] So do you feel like that you see a lot of other people reaching out like within that smaller community? Like do you feel like there’s a stronger bond between those people?

Paola Iturbide: [00:10:22] People that I have met makes you can with Mexicans, Chinese we Chinese like they don’t get makes a lot I think because of their racisim, and because of the language maybe they find it difficult.

Colby Mocarski: [00:10:39] So what made you end up working for five guys? Like what made you decide to work there?

Paola Iturbide: [00:10:44] Because it was close to my house and I don’t have a car it is a bad job. But I mean I will love to work in other place but it’s like you so hard to move here because their transportation is horrible.

Colby Mocarski: [00:11:02] So do you see yourself like staying with Five Guys? Are you going and try and look for a new job? Or try to start your career as a translator?

Paola Iturbide: [00:11:15] Yes. I just need the translated stuff I’m just doing my exam if I pass it I think I’m not leaving here because he’s boring. But I’m going to maybe move to Charlottesville, if my ex don’t propose.

Colby Mocarski: [00:11:31] So what Changes would you like to see in Harrisoburg in the nation in general as far as looking at immigrants?

Paola Iturbide: [00:11:45] Transportation people that don’t have cars so difficult. You don’t have transportation you don’t have transportation and Saturday and Sunday. It’s horrible.

Colby Mocarski: [00:11:56] But what about like how our nation views immigrants?

Paola Iturbide: [00:12:02] I think it’s really hard for people that immigrants. So I think they don’t have a decent job. If you are an immigrant you’re screwed. You’re going to leave this in but you’re not gonna live, you’re gonna be a slave. So people here treat immigrants that they don’t have papers as slaves they are slaves.

Colby Mocarski: [00:12:33] As a whole like especially under President Trump he’s been like extremely strict with immigration policies. So like how do you feel about our nation. Like right now he’s shown to appeal the 14th Amendment that says that if you are born in the United States you are a citizen even if your parents are not. So you shine to get that reversed. So like how do you feel about the way that our country is moving towards like a no immigrant population?

Paola Iturbide: [00:13:07] I think is fine if you like if their parents are not from here. I think it’s OK. What they are doing. I don’t know why people come here. They should fight in their own countries to be better and other countries should like fight so that their people have better jobs and not leave their countries. So I think America is doing the right thing not having immigrants here.

Colby Mocarski: [00:13:48] So you said that your family still lives in Mexico so what do your parents do to be successful and have a life in Mexico if finding jobs are very difficult?

Paola Iturbide: [00:14:01] Like I said I was not a very studious person. I didn’t study a lot. I’m kind of I like to study both my parents my parents my parents. My dad he’s he’s really smart so he become a lawyer so like I said if you are smart and you study you can be successful anywhere. But most of the time people are lazy. That’s why they are not successful.

Colby Mocarski: [00:14:30] So what jobs do your parents have in Mexico?

Paola Iturbide: [00:14:33] My father is a lawyer and he runs a call center he’s them. Like their manager of all Mexico. Like all the, the country because they have different call centers in different parts of the of their country.

Colby Mocarski: [00:15:01] And what does your mom do?

Paola Iturbide: [00:15:02] My mom right now she doesn’t work.

Colby Mocarski: [00:15:05] So what do you think about the overall view on immigration? Like what do you think about the American perspective of immigration.

Paola Iturbide: [00:15:34] What Americans think of immigration. I think that right now they’re really racist about immigration and I think they should stop immigration and not let people in. If they are were not born in the United States and or if they are born here and their parents are not from here they should not give them the papers because governments on other countries should fight for better education and everything like that.

Colby Mocarski: [00:16:11] So yeah it’s just America was built on immigration because everybody that’s ever really been here immigrated from overseas from Mexico somewhere. So it’s just like how is how are the times so different now where immigration is viewed as a negative thing and we’re trying to cut it off completely versus we were built on immigration. So like why do you think it’s like completely changed?

Paola Iturbide: [00:16:44] Because back in the days there was they were everything was building it was building like everything was not done yet. So all like Mexico was built because European people move to that country. So now that is overpopulated like they should stop immigration because everything’s done right now like people like countries have their own people so they should stop immigration.

Colby Mocarski: [00:17:17] So what do you think you will take for Mexico to, I guess become more like the United States where it has more job opportunities and higher wages and things like that?

Paola Iturbide: [00:17:30] When they when the government stops robbing has a robbing, because people are really really corrupt. That’s the problem that in other countries government is so corrupt and they steal thousands and thousands of dollars they don’t have the values like Americans have. They have honesty values here and Mexicans, they don’t have that because the government steals. The steals their taxes monies taxes money. So that’s why it’s like a circle, like it repeats repeats repeats the same stuff because if they don’t stop from the government, stealing the government give give them more opportunities. People will stop stealing to have a better life. So the government should start not stealing and have their values like America has more Americans have more of honesty. They are more honest. There is not a lot of crimes like in Mexico because of that because it starts from the government that the government steal. They don’t rob. They don’t commit crimes. So is everything. Start start start from the top like from the government.

Colby Mocarski: [00:19:10] So, with not a lot of job opportunities before you moved to the United States even if it was just for a short period of time. What job did you have in Mexico?

Paola Iturbide: [00:19:22] I was just like Secretary.

Colby Mocarski: [00:19:26] What. What did that involve?

Paola Iturbide: [00:19:30] What do you mean?

Colby Mocarski: [00:19:31] Like what were your tasks to do every day?

Paola Iturbide: [00:19:35] Just type things on the computer. Answer the phone. It was awful.

Colby Mocarski: [00:19:42] So how does that compare to like the salary you made in that job. How does that compare to the salary that you’re making in your current job?

Paola Iturbide: [00:19:51] Yeah it’s way like this is a bad job also. Also that’s the difference. Like I had a bad job over there and they pay me like thirty dollars per day. So that’s, no not thirty dollars like twenty dollars per day. And that was an eight hour shift in here a bad job. You get paid per day seventy dollars so that’s a huge amount of difference. That’s the difference. Working in Mexico than working here and in Mexico you work one day and you you can like if you work in that bad job for the whole month you can just buy groceries and that’s it. You don’t like you. You don’t have money to pay rent and to do other stuff in here. If you work a bad job you can’t pay rent. You can have food and you can live decent. That’s the difference between Mexico and the United States that you can live more decently having bad jobs.

Colby Mocarski: [00:20:55] In the span of comparing these two jobs. There is a difference on how far a dollar goes so even though you getting paid less in your other job your money probably went for the men in the United States because things are more expensive here right?

Paola Iturbide: [00:21:13] Yeah. But you can like, but it depends where you go if you to the dollar family store. It’s really cheap. Well it depends on what you do.

Colby Mocarski: [00:21:25] Yeah because the big thing in America right now is buying organic and buying one freshly grown products and going to farmer’s markets which can all be really expensive. So do you see a culture of like Americans spending more. Just because we have more?

Paola Iturbide: [00:21:43] Yeah. I mean here I can see like this consumerism, comsume. How do you say the word? Like you consume a lot like you just want to consume a lot of stuff. It’s a lot of competition. And because these are first world, first world country like they have everything and more so if you were to a store you just want to buy like everything because you can’t like you see everything it’s like you can buy with your credit card. You’re gonna pay it in, I don’t know six months. So it’s consumerism, you you people are buying and buying and stuff that they don’t need.

Colby Mocarski: [00:22:37] Right. So how are things like talking about stores and groceries and that thing like how are they different in the United States than in Mexico? Like do you see a huge difference, are things helps here in one place or another?

Paola Iturbide: [00:22:54] No it’s just like here. I see also the fruit and everything is really I don’t know the word, it is they made their fruit not natural because they don’t know the orange. It doesn’t have seeds. So I think food here is really processed, and in Mexico. No because of their consumerism. So a lot of competition. So people here the food is not healthy like natural like in Mexico and it’s expensive here also.

Colby Mocarski: [00:23:42] So did when you were coming to the United States did you also see it was harder or easier to find somewhere to live to find friends too?

Paola Iturbide: [00:23:54] Oh yeah. It’s really hard here to find like friends and it’s on where to leave also because they ask you for so many stuff like cosigner any of you don’t know anyone is really difficult. And I think people here live more by, they do everything they own and they find people on apps because they are so involved in just their job and just in themselves that they are not like involved in different stuff like in Mexico because here is expense here I’d like to go to our country club and people don’t do that here because it’s expensive just for rich people. The difference in Mexico is like to go to a country club it’s cheap so it’s more like people hang out more. You don’t have to meet someone like community. Yeah because this is cheaper. Like being middle class can go to our country club in here, middle class they cannot do that, people get more and more together. They have more time to do things with their friends. And here everything needs money and work work work work.

Colby Mocarski: [00:25:26] So what would you like when the public is listening to this interview like what is one main thing you want them to take away from your story?

Paola Iturbide: [00:25:38] To think about twice if you don’t have papers to come here you are going to have a better life. You are going to live decent but if you don’t have papers you are going to live like slaves. You are going to work. I work in a restaurant that they hire immigrants and they work from 8:00 in the morning to 10:00 at night and you are going to have a car you’re going to have more things that you’re going to have in Mexico where you are going to work a lot because here things are expensive here, than down in Mexico makes it you can leave poor but you are going to be free. So think twice. Call me here if you don’t have papers. You are not going to be happy. You marry an American or something like that.

Colby Mocarski: [00:26:29] So are also be students listening to the interview. So what do you think they can learn from your story? Like about your immigration experiences your work experiences your living experiences like what’s one main thing you want people and students to learn from your experiences? People are learning about immigration. So as an immigrant like what do you want them to learn from your experience?

Paola Iturbide: [00:27:04] Like I was. I’m not like kind of an immigrant because I have papers but my my friend that I meet here she was she was an immigrant and she didn’t have papers and she lived like hiding because she had to drive with no license. And she always had to be like hiding from the police. She had to work in a Mexican restaurant that they don’t ask for a social security number and anything. And she worked like a slave. So she couldn’t like anything because she didn’t know they, she she couldn’t go out of the country because her their papers were in process to be American citizen. So if you don’t have papers like is no worth it come in here is worth it. Like coming here for a while and then come back just like save money and then come back because here things are really expensive. So if you work like that as an immigrant you are going to earn money but you are going to spend, spend that all and leave just live by the day. The thing to believe you are an immigrant and don’t have papers work a lot and then go back to Mexico or that place that you are and do something there with that money that you earn here because living here is like you’re going to be living good but you are never going to be free.

Colby Mocarski: [00:28:28] Well thank you for this interview. It’s great talking to you and learning about your personal experiences!

Paola Iturbide: [00:28:34] Thank you! Bye!

 

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