Culture Shock
Culture Shock
In this episode of Harrisonburg360, our group discusses the experiences of two women as they immigrated to the United States in 2001. Paloma Saucedo immigrated to the U.S. from Mexico with her then-partner, while Jinky Knox immigrated by herself from the Philippines in order to continue a relationship with an American man she had met. Although Jinky and Paloma first arrived in different areas of the country, eventually they both settled in Harrisonburg, VA. This episode analyzes Jinky and Paloma’s initial perceptions of the United States and how those perceptions were challenged and changed by their experiences. Throughout this podcast, we compared and contrasted the immigration narratives from these two women in order to highlight the intensity of being exposed to an unfamiliar culture from another country. In conclusion, we highlight how the theme of community transcends both Paloma and Jinky’s stories, highlighting how cultural differences do not hold individuals back from seeking out and forming new connections.
Notes continued for those interested:
A reference to Valley Aids Network, as mentioned by Paloma: http://www.valleyaidsinfo.org/
A reference to the changing immigration laws for the year Paloma and Jinky migrated to the United States: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/post-911-policies-dramatically-alter-us-immigration-landscape
“Culture Shock” Show Notes by Corinne Landrum, Kevin Hennessey, Olivia Comer, and Caroline FitzGerald
This episode was made possible by Dr. Fagan of the JMU English Department, Paloma Saucedo, Jinky Knox, and Hannah Moses. Special thanks to JMU’s Special Collections, especially Kirsten Mlodynia.
Interview with Katherine (Kate) Small
Interview with Katherine Small
Kathrine Small is a student attending JMU for one year before returning back to England to finish her degree. She was born West Sussex to Methodist parents. During her childhood she gained an idea that every person should be able to try new things, leading her going to university after finishing school. Her job back in the UK working at a summer camp for kids during the summer.
Though she has been here for a short time, she has already viewed the city of Harrisonburg in a good light, remarking that it is friendly and
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Speaker 1: Hello this is. My name is Dylan Shafer and I am with
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Speaker 2: My name’s Catherine small. I’m 20 years old and I’m an exchange student from the UK.
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Speaker 1: Where is your family from in the UK?
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Speaker 2: Both my parents are Scottish and then they moved on to England with me and my brother were both born.
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Speaker 1: Is there anything you want to talk about from your childhood or any experiences.
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Speaker 2: I have a good childhood. Yeah, I went to a primary school in my village.
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Speaker 2: I was in school all the way through to 18.
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Speaker 2: I went to university in the UK to study history.
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Speaker 1: Are you religious?
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Speaker 2: Yes I was christened when I was a baby and I’m still Christian. I believe in Christianity.
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Speaker 2: I’m part of the Methodist association
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Speaker 1: I’m a Methodist too. How did you come to America? You came as an exchange student?
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Speaker 2: Yes. So, this is my first time here. I came by myself. No one else in my family has been to the US before. So yeah, I’m here studying for a year as part of my university degree.
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Speaker 1: Um do you want to explain more a little bit more about your town here.
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Speaker 2: So, I’m from the county of West Sussex.
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Speaker 2: It’s in the south of England. The various outfits on the English Channel which borders funds got near Plymouth.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well or somewhere. Well it’s Portsmouth. Yeah, it’s the others. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: It’s the other side. Yeah, it’s really nice mm. What was your first impression of Harrisonburg?
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Speaker 2: It feels very like communal right. There seems to me like in a strong sense of community here and I felt safe pretty much straight away which was a concern of mine because it’s such obviously America’s so big that I and I come from an area which is really small that I was concerned about but not instantly felt welcomed and safe.
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Speaker 1: And have you seen any changes in the short time you’ve been here in Harrisonburg.
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Speaker 2: Not really. Like I guess that when I came here I everyone was really friendly, and I immediately felt welcomed and that hasn’t really changed.
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Speaker2: Like I haven’t noticed any difference
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Speaker 1: I think I already know the answer to this one, but have you even met a significant other.
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Speaker 2: No.
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Speaker 1: Do you have a job here.
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Speaker 2: No, I’m not allowed based on my student visa.
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Speaker 1: Do you work back in the UK.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I work in the summer holidays like kids summer camp. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Okay.
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Speaker 1: And do you have like a business or organization you’re involved with here on campus or in Harrisonburg.
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Speaker 2: Not really. I’m involved in sort of being an ambassador for my university about Come here. If that makes sense so trying to get students to do a semester abroad at my university in.
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Speaker 1: And so what are your future plans.
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Speaker 2: Finish their share and go home. I’ll do my final year and then hopefully go into politics in some way either through journalism or work and so in office.
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Speaker 1: What changes do you think you would like to see in Harrisonburg and we are going to save the world, in terms of foreign nationals.
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Speaker 2: I think in terms of the world I think people should become a lot more tolerant of those that are foreign coming into that country. I know being from the UK it’s also a contentious issue that I personally think everyone should be welcomed everywhere. Yeah I just I think I’d like to see people become more tolerant unless scene phobic.
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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah.
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Speaker 1: What do you think of the rhetoric used in immigration both here and abroad.
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Speaker 2: I think it’s one to try and make people scared and to try and make people fear. People coming into the country and make them see them as a threat as opposed to someone that could help in which the culture already. I think it’s a shame. I think it should be the other way around.
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Speaker 1: But what what do you think students should learn about immigration and foreign nationals having.
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Speaker 2: During my youth but now I personally think it’s something that if possible every student should try and do. It’s been a really enriching experience for me in terms of learning about a new culture and sort of learning to embrace as much as possible and I think it’s something lots of students would benefit from if they could make it.
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Speaker 1: That’s all I got so that’s going to be and be the end of the interview.
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Open in new tab Interview with Evelin Gonzales
Interview with Evelin Gonzales
MIGRATION
Evelin Gonzales was born in 1983 in Nicaragua, and lived in the countryside near the Costa Rican border with her parents and grandparents until she was a year old and her family moved to the country’s capital city, Managua. She discusses living and and growing up in Nicaragua, specifically in the city, and the overall limited educational resources:
“Nicaragua is very limited in education resources. So, what I just remember if you wanted to– the main thing for me, I really enjoy reading. And so if you wanted to read the good books you– I remember walking like a mile and a half to get to the library or more…from my high school there was a government building and they had a good library. So, but then you have to walk back home and it’s dark. I remember going after classes and spending maybe an hour, hour and a half, but you cannot check out books. So you can only read there, so you will be like, okay, ‘I’m finishing my page, 146, I’ll pick it up tomorrow’, so you have to be very disciplined.”
Evelin lived in Managua until her immigration to the U.S. 5 years ago after meeting her husband, an American citizen. Evelin met her husband while he was doing 4 years of service work for the Mennonite Central Committee in Nicaragua. After dating for three years, the couple got married in Nicaragua two months after Evelin graduated college in 2006 with a degree in accounting. During her 5-year accounting degree program, Evelin was very involved; she was a member of the student union, and did a lot of networking and research on international trade agreements and their impact on education and the lives of women. Evelin and her husband both lived and worked in Nicaragua for 12 years.
Before ultimately agreeing to move the U.S., Evelin had substantial reservations about living here. Her perceptions were based on her experiences of violence and turmoil growing up in Nicaragua’s unstable political climate, and informed her overall negative sentiments of the U.S.:
“So I was born in 1983, so we have a very long history with the United States and, the US finance– help to set and finance a dictator for 45 years in Nicaragua. So finally the Nicaraguans were able to organize a revolution until that happened in 1979. But then since the revolution there were a lot of, pretty much they wrote a new constitution and there were like more rights given to women and uh, there was uh, there was a lot of social changes and changes in the distribution of wealth too, uh, but there was also more war financed by the United States. So we had the revolution in 1917 and 1879. And then we have 10 more years of war, and so like that I can definitely remember like bombs, airplanes dropping bombs and stuff like that.”
Evelin honestly did not want to come to the U.S. She and her husband “had a long three years negotiation” about moving here. She recalls thinking, “I didn’t want to come to the US. I think that if I ever thought about marrying somebody, how that was for sure…So, um, it was really difficult to think about coming to the United States.” After she and her husband had a discussion about their personal differences and their country’s cultural differences, Evelin and her husband made an agreement to get married and move to the U.S. so her husband would be able to do work in the community, and so Evelin would have an opportunity to meet the people that “didn’t bomb [her] country” and who were “pretty much against that”.
Evelin and her husband lived with her family for 2 years in Nicaragua after they were married. Evelin describes getting her visa as “a really easy process”, because she felt she got lucky by her parents sharing a connection with the interviewer (they both attended the same university). Evelin also acknowledges that her relatively smooth immigration process, that was finalized in 30 days, was definitely unlike most cases, which often take years.
When Evelin came to visit the U.S. for the first time, she stayed for about a month and then returned to Nicaragua. She had both of her two children in Nicaragua, and came back again when her youngest child was seven months old, and her oldest was two. Five years ago, Evelin and her husband moved to Harrisonburg, her husband’s hometown, in order to be closer to his parents and his side of the family, and have been here ever since.
INTEGRATION
Evelin’s integration was a very unique case. She came to America because of her husband’s status and his family is over here. She said, “We mostly moved because we wanted the kids to be close to their grandparents for the side of the family in”. Her economic integration included her multiple visits to America. She has been back and forth for many years. Her second trip to America she got a job at a daycare:
“He came to the US, he could get a job. So we came on a Friday. He started working on Monday and um, yeah I, after two weeks I’m like, dear, I’m ready to go back home so or I get a job or I’m leaving. And so, but then I went to OCP. They had a community activity and I met a lady in She asked me, I saw a little boy walking in and he could be cute. So the lady was like, “do you like kids?” So I’m like, “I don’t know what she’s trying to say” with my husband and interpret for me and he’s asked your girl. And so she’s like, um, she was the director of program (Roberta) Webb Child Care Center and she’s like, “if I have an opening I will let you know”. And so she called me that same week and they had an opening”.
They decided to go back to Nicaragua and get married. One they had two kids and decided to move back to America after an ongoing debate and counseling. Now they have been in America for five years since their last visit. Evelin wanted to get a job quickly just like the last time since she needed her independence too. She started to work at Bowl of Good while she was looking for something more permanent. “wanted to work because I’m very independent. I go nuts with kids and home and just baby talk grownups and know I cannot be in home. I started working for a few hours and a bowl of good. So I was helping in the kitchen”. Evelin started to get a little bored so she was looking into First Step which helps those who have been in abusive relationships, specifically women. Since Evelin had experience working with a women and domestic violence prevention she thought that would be a perfect choice. Her husband suggested Everence down the street from Bowl of Good since she has an accounting background so she applied to both companies. She heard back from First Step but turned it down. “I get a phone call from the other place, offered me the job for working in First Step as a case manager. But then I’m like, no, I want to try the financial figures and do something different”. Evelin now serves as the Branch Manager for the Everence Federal Credit Union branch located in Harrisonburg. She joined the Everence team in 2015 by helping to meet clients’ needs through loans and other credit union services for individuals, families and small businesses.
Evelin talked a lot about the attitudes she received from the Harrisonburg community. When she first came to America she did not speak a word of english and was only here for a couple of months. People thought she was very nice and sweet at first. When she started to learn more english and question some things the Mennonite church was doing her friends changed their views. When she came back the second and third time the church community were not a fan of her views and reservations.
“So I feel like my first visit to the US, it was kind of a honeymoon. You don’t actually talk you’re so quiet. You’re so cute, you know, like you don’t actually express yourself because you don’t know the language. And so the second time that I came then I wasn’t that great anymore because you start seeing how are the church dynamics and how are the politics and you were like, oh, but I don’t agree with that and what is the church doing and how. And so then people were like, Oh, let me tell you how we Mennonites do it”.
Other than her few struggles with the church Evelin had a smooth transition to regular life in America. Her sister moved out to be closer to her and she started a family with a westerner as well. The process for her to get her papers were very easy. She actually applied back in Nicaragua thinking it would take a long time, enough time that she could still live in Nicaragua for a couple of years. It actually only took a couple of months so she decided to decline the order so she could stay in Nicaragua longer. We did not ask specifically about the Nicaraguan community and if she had a part with them if there was one.
Going off experiences learning English and going to school were interesting. She told us she learned English by means of work since her husband was her main translator and many did not speak Spanish at the time. “I learned English mostly by work pressure and so I enrolled into the MBA program at EMU a one year, a year ago. So I’m completing my first year”. Going into her educational experiences, Evelin got her bachelor’s accounting degree in Nicaragua and just enrolled in EMU’s Masters degree in business as she said in the previous quote. Since she had a college education before coming to America it made the whole job process and reception much easier.
Evelin spent a great deal of time talking about her preconceived ideas of America. Her political incorporation was a pretty big deal. When she was young there was a lot of conflict with the Nicaraguan government and the U.S. ideals. Nicaragua had a dictator at the time and of course America is/was against those types of power structures. The U.S. sent lots of troops and warfare to Nicaragua which affected Evelin’s perceptions of Americans. She saw them as these negative people who destroyed her homeland with bombs. Those events had a lasting effect until adulthood and resentment was very prevalent.
“So we had the revolution in 1917 and 1879. And then we have 10 more years of war and so like that I can definitely remember like bombs, airplanes dropping bombs and stuff like that. And even coming to the U.S. it’s funny because sometimes I meet people and they were like, oh yeah, “I was in Nicaragua in the eighties and I was working in the aviation”. I was like, yeah, maybe you were one of those dropping bombs, those bombs that I still remember”.
Evelin’s integration was/is very different than most stories we have looked at in our class. She came over here because of marriage and family while many did it because they wanted a better life. She had a great life and plans to return to Nicaragua very soon.
MEMBERSHIP
Overall, Evelin’s attitudes about moving to the U.S. and the U.S. in general were not favorable. To this day, and especially under our current administration, Evelin still has her reservations about living in the U.S. She discusses,
“I didn’t want to come to the U.S. because I’m like, what kind of people live in that place? What kind of– what are their values? Really? I just didn’t want it. I don’t have any desire of coming to the U.S….After the these elections I told my husband, this is exactly the country that I thought it was…”
Despite these doubts, Evelin is now a citizen of the United States. She discussed a little about the lengthy bureaucratic process and mentioned that a spelling mistake was made on her naturalization certificate and how she is currently waiting for that to be fixed, “I got my citizenship like a month ago. But my certificate, my naturalization certificate, my name was misspelled. And just to fix that it’s going to take like close to $600 and maybe between 6 and 13 months and they haven’t even sent me a letter saying that they had received the papers and I, I sent it back overnight so I know they got the papers…”
Evelin doesn’t really go back to Nicaragua for visits with her family because she doesn’t have an American passport yet, but her parents do visit once a year and stay for about a month. However, she does anticipate going back to Nicaragua with her family to potentially do a 3-5 year service term. Her two sons are both bilingual in Spanish and English, and are both enrolled in dual-immersion programs, which are offered in most Harrisonburg public schools. She also mentioned that her sons always say their evening prayers in Spanish as her mother and sister taught them.
To conclude the interview, we asked Evelin if she had any advice for her younger self, to which she answered with words I think we all have needed to hear at one point or another,
“Just be adaptable and wherever you are, just be yourself, learn the culture, it takes several years, and be open and be adaptable. I think an open mind–and I have to adapt so much in this job and in this culture, what do you say and what you don’t say and what the rituals and yeah, just be open. Um, there’s nothing that will prepare you for, you know, the different scenarios you’re going to face, but take it easy. Always take it as a learning experience. Even when I get really upset, I’m like, ‘ah, I’m definitely learning something from this one’…Everything is different and every person, I don’t know, has a way of expressing themselves and that’s not just about you, it’s about a lot more than that. And so I learned not to take anything personal and to always try to learn something from your experience and yeah, don’t let it get to you. Learn something from that experience.”
CONNECTIONS TO CLASS
In the second half of the class we talked a lot about receptions and Evelin had a good amount to say about this topic. She was well received at first but when she began discussing her personal opinions her truth came to the surface. Since then she has felt like Harrisonburg is her second home. Her sister is about to live in the house right next to her and has started her own family. In the Washington Post article by Andrew D. Perrine, you can definitely see signs of a positive reception. One even said, “This support shows us the community is standing with us. This makes us feel like we are all Americans”. What we have previously seen in Evelin’s story is very different to the stories we have mainly studied. She was not undocumented for that long and was very privileged when trying to obtain citizenship. In Roberto G. Gonazales’ “Learning to be Illegal” we saw the struggles of being an undocumented teen. Evelin says that she understood the struggle others had and because of that she would take her kids to all of the local marches surrounding immigration. She wanted to show them the other side of immigration that she fortunately did not have to go through. In the Massey reading, “Why Immigration Occurs” we see how Evelin’s marriage and connections with her husband’s family is what ultimately brought her to the United States. In fact it was the only reason why she would come over since she had reservations about America to begin with especially its government policies.
Sophie: Yeah. Do you want to just start off about talking about like where you were born and just like the background. Yeah.
Evelin: What kind of background?
Sophie: Like um, so you were in Nicaragua, correct. So just Kinda just talk about your childhood and stuff like that, if that makes sense?
Meghan: Well I guess we could start with like where and when you were born. Let’s start with something specific.
Evelin: I was born in Nicaragua, the and um, I live with my grandparents and parents until I was one year old and we were born umm. I was born in the countryside and then my parents decided to move to the city and so I grew up in Managua, the capital.
Meghan: Okay.
Evelin: Yup.
Meghan: Um, what is your like education history like? Where did you go to school? In Nicaragua or did you do that when you came to the US?
Evelin: No, I went to, um, I didn’t, I have an accounting degree and so I did that in Nicaragua
Meghan: Okay.
Evelin: And so, um, when I came to the US we came five years ago.
Meghan: Okay.
Evelin: And so, um, I learned English mostly by work pressure and so I enrolled into the MBA program at EMU a one year, a year ago. So I’m completing my first year. Oh, the MBA.
Sophie:Nice. And then when you said we, was it just you coming over or was it your family, your husband?
Evelin:Yeah, I met my husband in Nicaragua. He was an MCC, MCC is a Mennonite Central Committee. He was a service worker for the Mennonite church and so he went, to Nicaragua for four years of service, so we met there and we dated for three years and then we got married and he started working in Nicaragua, a local worker for the same organization. And so he pretty much ended up being there for a total of 12 years.
Meghan:Oh Wow.
Evelin: And um, yeah. And so we got married in 2006, I was just talking with some friends and I just got married like two months after I after i finished my college. like thats too much.
Meghan:Yeah, that’s definitely a big change.
Sophie: Yeah, for sure.
Meghan: So you said that you grew up like on the countryside and then moved to the city. What was your experience like growing up in the capital and like what was that like being there.
Evelin: You know, so growing up actually I was from like maybe one year old when we moved from the countryside.
Meghan: Okay.
Evelin: So living in the city it was, Nicaragua is very limited in education resources. Okay. So what, I just remember if you wanted to, the main thing for me, I really enjoy reading. And so if you want it to read the good books, you um, I remember walking like a mile and a half to get to the library or more and um, yeah, or uh, there was um, and from my high school there was a government building and they had a good library. So, but then you have to walk back home and it’s dark. And so, um, so I remember going after, um, after classes and spending maybe an hour, hour and a half, but you cannot check out books.
Meghan: Oh really?
Evelin: So you can only read there, so you will be like, okay, finishing my page 46. Oh, pick it up tomorrow.
Meghan: That’s crazy
Evelin: So you have to be very disciplined.
Sophie: Right. So, um, how has your, education, you said you got your degree in accounting. So how was that process like going to like college in Nicaragua? Is there any conflicts or anything, anything like that?
Evelin: Um, you know, it’s. So the, I went to a public school, a public university, and actually in accounting, the public university was the one that was pretty hard to get in. Um, it was cheap. The problem in Nicaragua is not that you cannot afford, you can only not afford college because you, your family needs your income, so you must do work. It’s not that it’s expensive. Um, but my parents were very supportive, so I applied for the university. You have a test that you have to pass and it’s very competitive. But um, I got in accounting and it was a five year program, um, and I really enjoy kind of studying in networking and so I got into, into the student union and so I did a lot of networking in research for international trade agreements and so all their student unions, we’re also focusing on that. And so we were working like in the Central American region doing education about the impact of international trades like CAFTA
Meghan: yeah.
Evelin: Yeah, because it had a lot of impact in education and women.
Meghan: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Wow, that’s really fascinating. Um, was there like a, a culture of migration, like where you were from? Like, did you know a lot of people that like either left Nicaragua to go somewhere else or like people that went to the US? Did you know, a lot of people that left or?
Evelin: I knew a little, not in the city and the city I guess, there was a lot of migration, internal migration from, uh, the north or the countryside to the city.
Meghan: Okay.
Evelin: Um, but yes, I remember a lot of migration from my hometown because that’s close to the Costa Rican border. And so a lot of people you will know that half of my, my aunts and uncles are in Costa Rica and it is, it is very common, that kind of migration.
Meghan: Yeah. Yeah
Evelin: But I didn’t know a lot of people moving to the United States. Nope.
Meghan: Okay.
Evelin: Most people migrate in Nicaragua, most people migrate. And um, to Costa Rica and if you see it right now, if you see a with Nicaragua is struggling politically right now, but they you don’t hear about Nicaraguans and the Immigration Caravan that is coming to the US right now.
Meghan: Right, Right
Evelin: They still migrating, but they like to stay closer and I guess we don’t have the language barrier and so people just cross the border and go to Costa Rica when things settle they go back or they back and they go back and forth.
Sophie: Okay, nice. Um, so before moving to the US we’ll talk more about that, but did you have any like preconceived ideas about the US and your like perceptions?
Evelin: Definitely! We have a lot. Um, so I was born in 1983, so we have a very long history with the United States and like, the US financed, helped to set in finance a, what is it called, what is the word that I’m looking for? Dictator for 45 years in Nicaragua. So finally they (Nicaraguans). Were able to organize a revolution a until that happened in 1979. But then since the revolution there were a lot of, pretty much they wrote a new constitution and they were like more rights given to women and, there was uh, there was a lot of social changes, and changes in the distribution of wealth to but there was also more war finances by the United States. So we had the revolution in 1917 and 1879. And then we have 10 more years of work and so like that I can definitely remember like bombs, airplanes dropping bombs and stuff like that. And even coming to the US is funny because sometimes I meet people and they were like, oh yeah, I was in Nicaragua in the eighties and I was working in the aviation. I was like, yeah, maybe you were one of those dropping bombs, those bombs that I still remember. Wow. And so, so when I met my husband, we had a long three years negotiation because I didn’t want to come to the US. I think that if I ever thought about marrying somebody, who was not from the United States that was for sure. So it was, it was very interesting because I, and even agreeing can now, talking about getting married. I’m like, yeah, but we can live here, right? We don’t need to go to the United States. So, um, it was really difficult to think about coming to the United States. Uh, we even have like a counseling sessions.
Meghan: Oh really?
Evelin: It was, so they call it, like the, it was some friends that were doing a masters in psychology. And so they have, they call it family constellation. So you are in a, you have like an audience and there were like 20 people in the room. And then you are the couple, they’re used to do the counseling, so each of you is invited to choose for the audience who is going to represent your family. So you were like, okay, you can you be my sister? And could you be my? And so they asked you to arrange your family. And so I chose my mother, my father, my brother, my sister, my country. And so I put them my idea, my mom, my dad, my brother and sister. I’m the middle child and then my country in front. So my husband chose his mother, father, sister, him (himself) and the country was big, tall guy from Italy. And so I remember that. Then they ask you to introduce your fiance to the family and you go. And my husband is, he went and did a big bow to the family and to the country. And then they asked me to do the same. And then for me that was the end is it wasn’t conscious that I was standing there and thinking, I’m like, I’m just going to move my head too, you know, that’s a recognition. That’s a reverence to the country. Ten minutes later my body didn’t move and then they asked me like, hey, this is over, I can do this. And then I turned back to the guy representing the US and my body for another five minutes didn’t move. So then there was like the breaking point. There were obviously a big difference between us like are countries would have been. Yeah. So we, we discuss about that and that was when we made an agreement. Okay, okay. He was like, you know, I’m from the US but I’m [inaudible recording] I put a lot of energy and time and community development and making my community a better place. So I think that I would like you to come to the US and meet the family the people that you know, didn’t bomb your country, that didn’t finance the war. They were pretty much like against that. And so we made that agreement and that was when we, okay, we can get married now. And so we live with my family for two years after we get married and then we came to the US and we lived with his parents and his community and we went to church and I met all these other people and then we went back to Nicaragua.
Meghan: So you said five years ago you came?
Evelin: Yes, but I guess five years since we have our kids, I came that first time and yeah, we can now get to know his family. I can know Harrisonburg and pretty much like the Mennonite community. And, and then we moved back to Nicaragua.
Sophie: And how long were you back in Nicaragua?
Evelin: Five Years.
Sophie: Ahh five years again. Okay. And then how was that transition coming back into the US? Was it intended to be permanent or did you think?
Evelin: No, I don’t think this is permanent. I think I wanted to get my citizenship because that’s the other part about immigration. It’s not once you are a US resident is now that you can just go back to your country and stay there. So you will have some legal immigration status that you can, have to protect. And so were in Nicaragua for five years, but we have to do a letter like a special permits. And so when we came back I knew that I couldn’t go back to Nicaragua for many years because I needed to because I didn’t have any. If I was, if I decided to go back to Nicaragua, just to visit, I was taking the chance of not being able to come back to the US.
Evelin: And so, uh, my only choice was to stay solid, um, in the US for four years and then apply for a citizenship. And so I did that. I didn’t, I didn’t travel or do anything. Um, and then I applied for citizenship. I just got my citizenship like a month ago.
Meghan: So you got your citizenship, like separate from being married to your husband or was there like something about like him being a US citizen, because I know that there’s like the K-1 visa thing where like people can come over and like get married here or like there’s like different, like routes you can kind of take. Like were you just kind of like on your own? Like, do you know what I’m saying?
Evelin: Yes. I know what you were saying. umm I think it wouldn’t be the case. It would have been the case. I got married in Nicaragua we didn’t get married in the US.
Meghan: Right, right
Evelin: Sometimes it’s difficult when you get married outside the US, it’s better to do the fiancee visa to the US and get married. That’s the easy one. Some people like in our case, like I wasn’t thinking and coming to the United States like right away or anything. They told me that my visa was going, my, my paperwork, it was going to take between six months and a year in a half hour. So I get married soon after I finished college, then, um, then I applied for that and they give it to me in 30 days.
Meghan: Oh Wow.
Evelin: And then I was like, oh, I’m starting a new job. I’m excited about my job and I don’t want to go to the United States. Right. So I have to. And so they told me, okay, you can deny your residency and apply again. And so I didn’t have any other choice. I came, it was a really easy process and I, I can easily identify what happened. My parents went to Nicaragua, they went to the embassy, they sign in Nicaragua, the affidavit of support and she (worker at the embassy) made a special connection with the person interviewing us. They went to the same college and I don’t know what happened there, but something made everything easier after that. So we got everything, um, finalized it in 30 days and that wasn’t usually the case. Right. And so, um, so that was my experience and, and I do acknowledged that that’s the best way for most of the case.
Meghan: That’s just one that I’ve heard of, you know, the most like…
Evelin: And some I have had some other friends that they got married in Nicaragua and then the husband was in the US trying to bring her.
Meghan: Right.
Evelin: It didn’t work. Yeah. I have another friend that it was the same and NCC service worker married over there for more than a year and she’s still there trying to get her papers.
Meghan:Wow
Evelin: It was pretty it sometimes when you think about immigration in some cases about of luck, there’s no pretty much the person interviewing you decide, how is the process going to be.
Meghan: Exactly. Yeah. Um, so I know that you like with the whole story about like kind of like counseling sort of thing. You did like obviously you had reservations about leaving.
Evelin: Yeah
Meghan:What were some of like, I don’t know, like your fears and concerns, like specifically like, I don’t know, you’re leaving your family or like adapting to like a completely new, you know, culture.
Evelin: I wasn’t even thinking about that. I was just like the image of international image of the US is about, especially as in Jamaica, like the damage that the United States have been doing with a financing wars and it’s an economic strategy. You know, if you control what they eat, you control their people.
Meghan: Yeah
Evelin: If you control every time that something big, major umm war happen in Nicaragua or happened in Central America. Then as soon as everything is okay, the US gain more power or the companies, it’s not. Think about it. the big corporations, they the one, they create the, the crisis and then they gain markets, ensuring the markets. So I didn’t want to come to the US because I’m like, what kind of people live in the US?
Meghan: Yeah.
Evelin: What kind of, what are their values? Really?
Meghan:Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Evelin: I just didn’t want it. I don’t have any desire of coming to the US. I’m like, I just, I don’t know. We had three years of negotiation.
Meghan:Are you still kind of dealing with that? I mean, are you, do you feel like, I don’t know, like better? or?
Evelin: I feel like when, when, um, after the these elections and I told my husband, this is exactly the country that I thought it was, um, like all these, you know, I don’t, I don’t blame it on the people that are working for US CIS, but it must be really hard when you were working and we are used to following rules and policies and be ethical and your behavior and comply with everything at your job. But then the law is changing.
Meghan: Yeah
Evelin: and you are processing paperwork that is sending people away and divided families. So is that about you? or is it about a system? So if you were the person that you used to send a letter saying, hey, by the way, you know, we still need these other three documents for your case and now the, the new regulations says that instead of saying you need more paperwork, they get a letter saying present to the court because you are in a deportation note. And so it is pretty hard to differentiate the people that work in the system and their ethics and the system itself. So It’s still pretty hard. I feel like with all these changes right now, this is the country that I didn’t want to come to.
Sophie: Yeah, I think we all have. Yes. Mutual feelings. Um, I would love to talk more about you coming here for the second time, which is like the time now. Um, if you would like to talk about, um, did you end up here in Harrisonburg when you came over with your husband?
Evelin: Yeah, my husband’s family from Harrisonburg. So in now we have two kids. Um, when we came, my youngest child was seven months old and my oldest child was two years and seven months. And so, uh, we mostly moved because we wanted the kids to be close to their grandparents from the side of the family and my husband only has one grandmother alive, so we wanted them to meet them
Meghan: Ohh okay.
Evelin: And um, so we came to Harrisonburg and, you know, looking for jobs and all that stuff. But what do you do when you have kids that are so little? So it was pretty difficult and I didn’t want to leave them or send them in a childcare for me it feels like um too much. And so, um, we, we played the immigration game, um, so, but I want it to work because I’m very independent and I go nuts with kids and home and just baby talk. I really need grownups and no I cannot be in home. Isn’t that healthy for me. So, um, I started working for a few hours at A Bowl of Good. Okay. So I was helping in the kitchen. I’m like, at least this is getting me out. So my husband was working for New Bridges, immigrant resource center and so as soon as he came home a few nights a week I was working there, then I’m like, no, this is boring let me find something different. And so I, I, I, I applied for a note for a job at First Step because most of my work experience, um, it was working with a women and domestic violence prevention or women and empower men or women, so a fair trade and all that stuff. Um, so I wanted to work on that field, but um also, my background is accounting. So my husband told me about a job in Everence and so I’m like, I’m look like. So I, I, I grabbed the phone and I call this office and they were like, are you available? I’m like, yeah, come now for an, from to get the paperwork. And it was actually an interview and they were like, okay, here are the paperwork apply and I am like hmm, but the same day I get a phone call from the other place, offered me the job for working in First Step as a case manager. But then I’m like, no, I want to try the financial field to do something different. And so, um, I applied, took a while to get it, but I, I got the job, I got, I was an MSR member service representative for three months and then they offered me the branch manager position.
Meghan: Cool. So when did you start here?
Evelin: Four years ago.
Sophie:Four years?
Evelin: So I was pretty new. I have learned a lot.
Sophie: Um, I would love to talk more about your kids. So you said they were born in Nicaragua, how was that process? I’m dealing with documentation and stuff like that was pretty easy?
Evelin: pretty easy when they were born in Nicaragua, and the US because of their father, they get immediate citizenship. So we just went to the embassy and, completed the paperwork. They were kind of mean in the interview. Whenever they have power they can use it. So they were like, why did you waited five years to have a baby? Did you have any abortions? They were awful. But anyway, after the interview they gave the paperwork and um, for the second child it was actually even easier. They didn’t ask any questions
Meghan & Sophie:[Laughed]
Evelin: And they just give them the paper where they even got their passports. The US passport faster than the Nicaraguan passport in a month they had everything.
Sophie: Oh Nice.
Meghan: Okay. Um, so is all of your family back in Nicaragua or are there any family members in the US?
Evelin: My sister came, so the way that I arrange ahh arrange, childcare it was that my mom came to take care of the kids for six months and then my sister came and helped me with the kids because I wanted to keep them in the home and with family and so, so they can still have that connection.
Meghan: Yeah.
Evelin: So my sister finally met some, her husband here and they got married and so now they live together.
Meghan: They live here in Harrisonburg?
Evelin: Yes, three blocks from my house. Then the house next door.
Meghan: Oh really? That’s picture perfect.
Evelin: Families to stay together.
Meghan: So let’s see, was there any like initial kind of like, when you first arrived, was there any kind of culture shock or anything? Did you experience any like “firsts”?
Evelin: Like when I came with the kids or when I came by myself?
Meghan: Yeah.
Evelin: Yeah, definitely. Like I didn’t speak the language and I knew nothing. My husband, as soon as he came to the US, he got a job. So we came on a Friday. He started working on Monday and um, yeah, I, I, after two weeks I’m like, ‘dear, I’m ready to go back home so I get a job or I’m leaving’. And so, but then I went to OCP, they had a community activity and I met a lady and she asked me– I saw a little boy walking, little baby oh so cute. So the lady was like, do you like kids? So I’m like, I don’t know what she’s trying to say, my husband interpret for me, and so she’s like, um, she was the director of program Webb Childcare Center and she’s like, ‘if I have an opening I will let you know’. And so she called me that same week and they had an opening. And so, um, I practice, my husband was asking me all these questions and I was answering, like what is your name, where do you live… So anyway, when I went there I couldn’t say anything. I was so shy and so red. And I couldn’t say– it’s like she knows everything, they were very nice and they were like, yeah, go and see the job, come over tomorrow and work the entire day. If you like it, you can, that’s your job, you know, you can do it and if you don’t like it, that’s fine. So I went there and I liked working with the kids and I learned a lot and, and I really wanted to work with kids because they say if you want to learn the language, work with kids and they don’t have any problem in letting you know that. So yeah, I did that. It was fun. I really enjoy. So it was close from home so I was able to ride my bike two point six miles and then come back.
Meghan: Were there any like negative experiences? Like maybe, like we’ve talked about, like kind of like a negative reception. Like when immigrants come to like there’s like stereotypes, things like that. People have given you a hard time about…
Evelin: No actually I have a different experience. So I feel like my first visit to the US, it was kind of a honeymoon. You didn’t actually talk, you’re so quiet, you are so cute, you know, like you don’t actually express yourself because you don’t know the language. And so the second time that I came, then it wasn’t that great anymore because you start seeing how are the church dynamics and how are the politics. And you were like, ‘oh, but I don’t agree with that and why is the church doing this and how do–’ And so then people were like, ‘Oh, let me tell you how we Mennonites do it’. I’m like ‘hmm, cool, you were so open and so different’. But when somebody is questioning the way that you do something, um, and yeah, so I think it has been the cultural shock has been more the second part when I can talk and understand and express myself. And I had different interests than just learning, and I knew I was leaving. And this one, I know that I’m leaving, but I know that I’m staying a little bit longer and that, you know, if this is not fair for me, it should not be fair for my kids either. So let’s make some changes. And so I joined like, um, there is an activity– its called Hope for the Future, is pretty much leaders of color in the Mennonite church asking for changes and not just in the church. Also in the church agencies, like Everence is one of them.
Meghan: Um, so would you say that like the reception in Harrisonburg of immigrants, maybe not just with your, like unique experience, would you say it’s like overall positive? Like do you feel like it’s an accepting place to come? I guess elaborate on–
Evelin: You know, I have a lot of privilege, I have education. Um, I have a legal status and now I’m a citizen. I get a job that I’m pretty sure that the first thing, engagement for all, or the first thing for this job was a, they knew my husband, they knew my husband’s family. Um, you were very well seen when you come from service outside the country serving for the Mennonite church. So I get a lot of benefits that I don’t think other people have. And um, yeah, I don’t think that I’m not a good person to compare with the other cases. I know a friend that I’m trying to help her and she has three daughters. She has a deportation order but nobody does anything about it, you know, it’s like, so nobody has asked any team to a lawyer or any other way to, I dunno. I feel like people in Harrisonburg are very nice and very kind and they are very um, willing to help if they connect with other people but they are not very open to people are not that. So it is confusing. It is complicated. Like if I think about the members in my church, you know, they’d go to all the marches, they have a different way of thinking, and if they knew a need they will try to help them. But then they only relate with white people that doesn’t need any help. So I’m like hmm that’s the double side of, I don’t know, it’s complicated, but anyway, maybe I’m not explaining it correctly…
Meghan: No, that’s actually a very fair point. Like we’ve been talking about how overall, receiving communities, or even people in general are more– like if they know someone who was an immigrant or if they like– instead of like “othering” people I guess would be the best way to describe it. Like a lot of people sort of like, see difference rather than seeing similarities. Like they’re, they’re not very “like me” in terms of their language or their culture or whatever. So like I’m going to separate myself from them. You know what I mean? So like, I mean that’s exactly what you were mentioning.
Sophie: Um, have you talked to your kids about your immigration story at all? Does that ever come up?
Evelin: You know, it’s, it’s amazing what kids learn, and how they interpret everything. They know about immigration just because we have this friend that has three kids and they know that, you know, things are difficult. We don’t have tv at home, so whenever they hear news or they hear stuff, they really pay attention. I remember that they went to visit their grandparents one night and my parents in law have a TV and they watch the news and so my oldest child, this was last year. He was watching the news and uh, they were listening, oh, about immigration and all these changes and all that. And they knew that my mother was coming and so he started crying and crying, woke up crying. Like, ‘Mimi’s not white, Mimi’s not from the US, they’re not going to let her come in. Mommy, I would never be able to see my Mimi.” So they get it. They know it. And yeah, there is no way that you can avoid that, you know? And sometimes they come and say, “so their parents don’t speak the language”, you know, “they don’t speak Spanish or they don’t speak English, and so are they going to be deported?” Or, “they are not white, are they going to be deported?” And so they repeat all these stereotypes from the schools, right. Or what they see or what they learned in the schools and um, yeah it is, it is– there is almost no point. They come with us to all the immigration stuff because we don’t usually leave them behind. But um, you know, I try to respect that they are kids and that they are learning and whenever they come up with questions we try to answer and the best way possible in trying to, you know, don’t scare them but tell them what’s going on. But I don’t feel like my situation has not been anything difficult and so it has not been that stressful.
Sophie: So like talking about like a multicultural family, has that influenced anything like in the schools? I know Harrisonburg’s are unique because they have a lot of languages spoken there. Is there any like anything different that you find in the schools when you have like a multicultural family like that?
Meghan: Like with the community, maybe like the other parents or teachers or anything like–
Evelin: You know I’m, I’m really bad because with this master, like I, I rely on my husband and how he connects. He works for the school system and so he takes the kids with him in the morning and he bring them– he comes with them in the afternoon. He’s pretty much the one who is in charge of that. I think the first year that Sammy was in Waterman, the way you know, I grew up with my parents coming to see me in school and bringing me like a snack at 10:00 AM. So I used to see my parents every day during school, and so I did that for, sent me the first year I went to have lunch with him every single day at 11:30 I was in the school. I will warm up his lunch and the microwave and I will jump in the car and be there. It’s so close, you know, it’s like four minutes away, that um, I get to know a lot about the teacher. I think that the teachers were kind of annoyed to have a parent there every single day, but I was able to see how they interact with the kids and set some boundaries with the teachers and with myself and expectations. Maybe they don’t get that kind of interaction with other parents. But for me, it’s like my parents did it for me. Why should I, if I’m able, why shouldn’t I do it for my kids? Um, yeah, I, there were a couple of things that I didn’t like it and I name it right away and she’s like, if you ever need to talk to– you know, she was referring in that very loud voice for child. And I’m like, okay, by the way, here I am. If you’re referring to the way that he’s communicating to me, why don’t you communicate with me and talk with the child and a different tone. Like don’t do that. So anyway, it was um– but I don’t quite relate with a school system, just because I just don’t have time. I leave work and I go to study. I sometimes have classes until 10.
Meghan: Oh 10 at night? Oh Wow. Um, let’s see. How does Harrisonburg compare with the capital back in Nicaragua? You know, big city, I’m assuming so. And then coming to Harrisonburg is relatively small…
Evelin: This is small but Nicaragua is also small and the city is not that big. I feel like the main issues– public transportation is awful. If you don’t have a vehicle you just… So I ride my bike, I walk because I was better off walking then waiting for the bus. So when I came here the first time, if I wanted to take the bus, I will have to walk a lot and then wait for the bus and then the bus will take forever. Actually I was able to get home in 15 minutes and it will take me an hour to ride the bus. So public transportation– I don’t enjoy driving. I hate it. If I can catch a ride or go with somebody else, I would love that. But um, yeah, public transportation, that was a big thing. The other is that the city is not, is not very welcoming, and doesn’t have like a main place where people can get together. Like in Nicaragua in the main cities you have like a, a park in front of the church. But people interact, and they have a common place, and in Harrisonburg downtown, if you’re not in a restaurant where are you? Like there is not a place with benches and a water fountain or something pretty where you can sit down and enjoy being with friends. I don’t see that.
Meghan: I guess was there like a– Did you, I guess observe or experience like a rich culture of um, people from Nicaragua or like I guess like Latinos in this community? Like did you see that? Did you experience it?
Evelin: You know, I experienced fear actually. Like I didn’t have– As I can say, you know, I have a lot of privilege and I can easily not worry about a lot of stuff. But working here, there was a nice lady that I was explaining to her, you know, sometimes I’m not here, can somebody else help you? And, and she was like, can you, you know, teach me how to, can I say deposit? And so I told her how to say deposit, she repeated. Withdrawal, and I say, do you know that in the library there is a nice program that you can use to learn a second language? And I use it, and she’s just like library? She didn’t know. She has been in the US for so many years. And I say, yeah, I will be in downtown today. I say, can we meet? It was like they would– we were going in circles around the town. They couldn’t find it, the library. So we finally met I think like um, close to community mennonite church, and then we walked down to the library. Then I took her to the library and we get our library card, and she’s like, ‘my son can use thi? and how much do you pay?’ So it’s not a membership it’s free. And we went and download Rosetta stone and the app on her cell phone and I explained everything. Then, she called her husband to pick us up. And then we– I remember seeing some bright lights flashing. And um, I thought, oh there must be an accident. It took, we were in the library maybe for an hour, an hour and 15 minutes. And then when we were– when her husband was coming to pick us up, those bright lights, those bright lights were– do you know Community Mennonite on 42? So the following entrance takes you through, close to the ice house and all that. So that was blocked. There was a police checkpoint. And so, um, her husband didn’t have any documents, and so he was coming to pick us up and then we got the phone call, and he starts saying, you know, I think this is a checkpoint. And then I remember the lights, then you connect everything. And I was like, oh my goodness. And he’s like, and I cannot go back because when you are in that strip, how can you go back? So he finally realized that he can turn into, I don’t know how that road, it’s more road, spangler sister, I don’t know, is a store. And so he, he went there and he even walked. It was a nightmare. It was a nightmare. I ended up like trying to find him. Then we found him. Then I say stay here or go pick up at the vehicle. I got pick up the vehicle. By then I didn’t have a citizenship. I was just a resident. I’m like, what if they stop me and I don’t know whose vehicle this is, you know, realize, I don’t know anything about his vehicle. Then I was in trouble. Finally, thank goodness, I found a way to the back road that connects that road with 42. Then I was looking for them. The main point is- those people almost got deported for going to the library. So my easy going experience with all the benefits and going wherever I want and travel wherever I want, it’s not the same. Then all the immigrants and the community that can– that’s why they just go to the poultry plant and work and go back home, because even going downtown sometimes can be risky.
Meghan: Yeah, it’s terrifying and totally unfair. Um, do you speak Spanish at home with your children?
Evelin: Both, yes. Sammy’s pretty good. Both of the kids are very, pretty bilingual and yeah, we uh, we usually go back and forth.
Meghan: Are there any other kind of cultural connections that you keep with them? Like keep at home?
Evelin: Uh, they always do their prayers in Spanish for like going to sleep and stuff like that. Um, because my mom and sister taught them that and so they had like (unintelligible). I dont know they sometimes, they talk to my mom and text her in Spanish and say this was a good day, you know, and writing in Spanish and stuff like that.
Sophie: Do they um– I know some of the schools do like the, they do like the classes in Spanish. Do you have them in those classes?
Evelin: Yeah. They’re both in the same program, in the dual immersion program.
Meghan: Cool. Um, do you, I mean obviously I’m sure you still communicate with your parents and all that. Do, do they come and visit often?
Evelin: Mhm. They come every year and stay one and a half month or so.
Sophie: And then do you ever visit them?
Evelin: I almost, no, because I, I have been in the US with the purpose of getting my citizenship. Now I got my citizenship like a month ago, but my certificate, my naturalization certificate, my name was misspelled. And just to fix that it’s going to take like close to $600 and maybe between six and 13 months. And they haven’t even sent me a letter saying that they had received the papers and I– I sent it back overnight so I know they got the papers. And so I’m stuck in this country for the next 13 months without a passport. And then whenever I get it I’ll have to get my passport. Yeah, I was going to Costa Rica for a, one of my classes and I had to do something else. Cannot leave the country without a passport.
Meghan: So you do have intentions of, I mean obviously traveling, but going back to Nicaragua?
Evelin: Yeah we don’t know yet if we’re going back to Nicaragua. We’re going to do like, um, service term and that’s usually between three and five years in one country. So we prefer to go to South America maybe. Yeah, we pretty much value the– for the kids to know that service is important.
Meghan: Yeah. And I’m sure it’s just like a really enriching experience like all around like, you know.
Evelin: Yeah. I think so.
Meghan: Yeah. I mean travel is so important I think. But um, let’s see. I guess, do you have any– I like this question. Do you have any like, advice for your younger self maybe before you came to the US? Is there anything that maybe now after living here for however many years, being married for almost 10, over 10 years. You said 2006. Yeah so 12 years. Is there anything that you would say, to you know, college grad, like to yourself, I guess. Any advice?
Evelin: Once again?
Meghan: Um, so I guess like after all this experience, you know, leaving your country and all these changes, is there any, anything you’ve learned, any advice that you’d give to your younger self?
Evelin: Just to be adaptable and wherever you are, just be yourself, learn the culture, takes several years, and be open and be adaptable. I think an open mind–and I have to adapt so much in this job and this culture, and what do you say and what you don’t say, and what the rituals– and yeah. Yeah, just be open. Um, I– there’s nothing that will prepare you for,, you know, the different scenarios you’re going to face, but take it easy. Always take it as a learning experience. Even when I get really upset, I’m like, ‘ah, I’m definitely learning something from this one’. Yeah, don’t take it personal. I’m like, sometimes I’m like, I should do anthropology, like learning cultures and study them. Um, everything is different and every person, I don’t know, has a way of expressing themselves and that’s not just about you, it’s about a lot more than that. And so I learned not to take anything personal and to always try to learn something from your experience and yeah, don’t let it go to you. Learn something from that experience.
Meghan: Very well put. I don’t think I have any more questions for you. Is there anything else you want to share? Anything specifically?
No, I hope that I didn’t go, you know, from the– too far away from the questions, say too many things…
Evelin: Yeah, I, I had um, I was helping with this research of about first and second generation of women in the United States, uh, and how they relate with healthcare and how they can identify sexual abuse or domestic violence in their house, especially with pregnant women. Those were fascinating interviews because it is just so difficult. You don’t have any resources or –Who do you talk to?
Sophie: If you don’t have a community, yeah that’s really hard.
Evelin: Yeah and, and, and I guess you, you are so vulnerable.
Meghan: Right you’re so dependent.
Sophie: Oh yeah.
Evelin: And when you don’t have immigration on your side, you, you even feel afraid of asking for help outside and all the police. What if they get to deport you? I don’t know. It’s just I have many lessons and included immigration because I have never had to struggle with them. With those. Yeah. Yeah. There’s so much privilege in my– Yeah.
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Ali Barranghi’s Story
Interview with Ali Barraghi
Introduction:
Everybody has a story to tell. With project, Immigrant Harrisonburg, it is our job to magnify those stories of immigrants. The following project is the story of Ali Barraghi. A Kurdish-American who immigrated with his family from Iran to Harrisonburg. We, Colette and Andriana, have listened to his story and have created an analysis of his experience. In the following paper we will present our methodological issues and insights, Ali’s departure, settlement and attitude toward his immigration process, and lastly Ali’s story with connections to our Sociology of Immigration class content.
Methodological Issues/Insights:
We scheduled to meet Ali at the Barnes and Noble on Burgess Road. When he walked in we greeted each other by shaking hands. From the start, it seemed that interviewing Ali was going to be like getting to know a new friend; you could tell that he was comfortable going into something that most people would be hesitant to do. The two of us, Colette and Andriana, originally chose to sit at a table, but Ali suggested that we find a corner that was more private and comfortable. After he introduced himself, we exchanged a few words about how he knew Professor Trouille. When we told him we were going to begin the interview, he even yelled “Testing 1-2-3, hi David!” into the microphone. You could tell he had a light-hearted attitude, and a sense of humor. Once we got into it, we first asked him about his family dynamic and where he was born. We originally created a list of questions to guide us through the interview, but once we got a conversation going, the list became unnecessary. The interview had a natural flow, similar to your everyday conversation. Around ten minutes into the interview, we were interrupted by a man who worked at the Barnes and Nobles who Ali actually knew. They greeted each other and exchanged a few words. Through this interaction, along with what we learned in the interview, it was clear that Ali had created friendships with many people in Harrisonburg. If you said his name to anyone, many would probably know who he was. As the interview went on it was clear that he enjoyed telling his story, because he had so many impactful moments in his life to share with us. Ali would sometimes mention something about his life that one of us could relate to in our home life. Every so often, we would spend a minute or so making small talk on the side whenever we found we had something in common. For example, when we asked Ali if he spoke english at home he said, “No, because my dad didn’t want us to forget our culture.” Since Andriana had a Thai mother, she noted that she also didn’t speak english at home, because her mother didn’t want her to lose the language being an Asian-American. Ali’s ease with telling his story was contagious. The more he would speak, the more comfortable we felt asking him questions. The interview ran for about 48 minutes. Once the microphone was off, we had a small conversation with him about his current soccer team before he left. In this way, it is clear that we took a strong but relaxing approach to this interview. We can both say, that his story was eye-opening and we enjoyed being able to hear it.
Departure Findings/Questions:
Ali’s departure story was fairly intense. Him and his four brothers at the time, were born in Tabriz, Iran. The family was made up of 5 boys, his mom and his dad. He noted that he was only in second grade when him and his family had to leave Iran. We questioned the word “had,” because in many immigrant stories, the family wants to leave their home country. This was not the case for Ali, and he explained that the primary “push” factor was that,
“My dad was on death row because he was a political figure. And since I’m Kurd, Kurdish people, we don’t have our own country, so he spoke out against the government and they caught him. And then, in Iran, if you’re on death row in Holidays they let you go back home to visit the family before, you know. And my dad decided just to all run away. And so we left.”
We were interested in how this process felt because he was so young. He explained that because he was so young, he had no idea what was going on and was just doing what he was told. After fleeing Iran, the departure only became more difficult. Ali and his family couldn’t use any of their vehicles to leave because that would draw attention; they also couldn’t use their passports. There only option was to leave on foot; so Ali, with his little brother in his arms and his family following ran through the mountains to Turkey. We couldn’t imagine having to go through something like this at a young age, but Ali with a lighthearted attitude said,
“we were getting chased by the government. And all I remember is running and getting shot at. So that was that. It was fun.”
Once they arrived in Turkey, he mentioned that things didn’t get any better due to the backlash that Kurdish people received from Turks. Although the context of reception was rather negative; Ali and his family settled there for two and a half years. During this time period, Ali and his brothers weren’t allowed to attend school due to the fact that they were Kurds. When we asked him what he did for the two and a half years, he indicated that there wasn’t really much that they could do. He noted that,
“everywhere we went we were labeled as a Kurd, we couldn’t work because we were Kurd. So we couldn’t have a job. And working wise, I was shining shoes, like polishing shoes. So that’s what I did. Stole gum, stole cigarettes; sold em. So yeah, that was Turkey.”
Although he and his brothers couldn’t work and go to school, he did mention that his parents were able to find work through small Kurdish establishments in Turkey. Besides the shoe polishing, his dad was able to get a job as a translator for the time being. Turkey would be Ali and his families last destination before their departure to America. While the description was slightly vague, Ali told us that because his father worked against the Iranian government the U.N. acknowledged that their family needed help finding a place to settle, and fleeing from the perpetual Kurdish backlash. We asked Ali how he and his family decided to choose America over other possible countries to come to, and he said,
“Well we didn’t have an option. The UN is like a lottery. We picked it and the US came up.”
Just like that, the U.N. would aid in getting Ali and his family on a plane and to America in the year 2000. From this point on, they would be starting their new lives as Kurdish-Americans, as soon as they touched down in Harrisonburg, Virginia.
Settlement Findings/Questions + Attitudes Findings/Questions:
Ali and his family, first came to the United States early in the year 2000. When they stepped off the plane life got a lot easier for eleven year old Ali. He comments upon their arrival that ‘a lot of weight was off our shoulder’ and that they felt welcomed when they first got to Harrisonburg, Virginia. They didn’t know anyone in Harrisonburg, but were connected with other Kurdish families from the moment they stepped off the plane, ‘when we came here there was a couple families at the airport waiting for us because the UN lets the refugee department here know and they send a Kurdish family’. When Ali first arrived in Harrisonburg there was a total of 80 Kurdish families within the city for them to connect with. The Kurdish community, along with other factors made life smoother; ‘I mean overall the life here was different. So it’s like, it was easier to adapt to and there was nothing to be scared of.’ However; a year after the families arrival, ‘9/11 happened, so it was even worse’. Ali was suddenly faced with discrimination; ‘for your teachers and friends to turn around and look at you like, why is your people doing this?’, life became hard in the face of segregation once again. Hard for Ali, and hard for his parents,
‘It was hard for us to watch them (Ali’s parents) go through that process again. Cause that’s like almost my whole life they went through it. So it was a new beginning for us to come here and than bam. All over again….And all these people are looking at us everywhere we go because she (Ali’s mom) has a traditional hijab and stuff on. It was like everywhere we went we would hear this aisle camera focus you know, so it was hard.’
Ali says none of his friends were caucasian by the time he reached high school due to this backlash. Even after all these unfortunate events, Ali keeps things positive, ‘I mean its life, you get used to it. You adapt to the situation. Which we were used to.’
Ali and his family soon moved to the ghetto of Newark, New Jersey for a year; ‘we lived in the middle of the ghetto. So its like there were shootings, stabbings, crackheads doing business on the stairs in the hallway doing drugs.’ However again, Ali stays positive about Newark by seeing it as ‘another life experience you adapt to.’ From Newark, they then moved back to Harrisonburg just in time for Ali to start high school. Ali went to Harrisonburg High School. Here, he was the President of the Kurdish Club and played football his senior year. He tried out for the soccer team his first three years; however, still receiving backlash from 9/11, he was cut from the team, ‘The coach wasn’t too open to Muslims. So yeah I got cut’. He received discriminatory treatment within social and sports life as well as academically. One example of this, was his unawareness of having to take the SAT in high school; ‘Everybody else knew cause the counselors would tell ‘em. But it was the foreigners who had no knowledge of anything.’ On top of this common treatment; the school had no programs to help Kurdish speaking children adapt to the different language and culture. Ali knew no English when he arrived. He was forced to learn English from cartoons such as Dragon Ball Z and the Looney Tunes, then apply the dialogue into the real world. In order to further adapt to the language, he asked all his Kurdish friends to speak only English around him; ‘we had lots of Kurdish friends and I told them not to speak to me in Kurdish. So it’s like, I could break out of my bubble and get comfortable. So like start speaking English. You know, so I got better at that.’
Once Ali graduated high school, his father moved the family to Portland, Oregon where they had extended family. It was here that Ali’s father opened the families first business; selling windshield wipers. This was a significant change in jobs as both his parents first got jobs at Harrisonburgs Cargill Turkey Factory. In Portland, they did well with the business but only stayed for two years. Inevitably, they moved back to Harrisonburg and began their first Hookah business called Brooklyn’s, and again they did well; ‘ we did very good cause we had to sell that place and open up a second place which was a lot bigger; which was Vibe.’ Eventually, they sold Vibe as well. Now, the family has a Hookah bar called Social, which was originally opened by Ali. Ali now runs Social, is an assistant coach for EMU men’s soccer and works as a fitness nutritionist. Ali is content with where he is now and has many options for his future; “I don’t know, there’s still so much to do…I’m trying to still figure it out”.
Conclusion:
In class, we discussed theories on push and pull factors as to why immigrants migrate. In contrary to many immigrants, Ali faced no pull factors for him coming to Harrisonburg. However with that being said, him and his family faced a huge push factor. There were structural changes within the Iran government which resulted on Ali’s father acting against the government. This ended in him on the list for death row, which inevitably pushed the family to flee their country. After listening to his story, we concluded that ideally, Ali and his family would have stayed in Iran for the rest of their lives if not for the push. They had jobs, family and a good life; and no reason to be pulled to America. Ali also identifies first with his Kurdish culture, and second with his American culture. Him and his family still speak Kurdish at home. Ali was president of the Kurdish club in high school and currently owns a hookah bar in town. So he is still involved in the culture of his previous country.
On top of them being pushed out of their country; they weren’t exactly welcomed with open arms to America. A little pushing from caucasian Americans occurred in America after 9/11. They experienced backlash in there country of migration, which isn’t uncommon. One thing that did create more comfort though was the Kurdish community in Harrisonburg. There were Kurdish families here to welcome them to the community and make the transition easier to manage. They didn’t know anyone at first when they came which contradicts theories in migrant networks. But knowing that there were families which shared similar experiences as them in the Kurdish community created a psych comfort.
Envitabally, Ali and his family pulled their extended families to Harrisonburg. He had a uncle who had migrated to Oregon, but who eventually brought his family to Harrisonburg to be with them. From stories like this is why the Kurdish community in Harrisonburg has rose since Ali first immigrated here; from 80 families to over 1,000 families. Social networks is typically a big pull factor; such as how Ali’s uncle came to Harrisonburg. This networking occurs in almost all other cultures as well. Many friends and family members will move if they know of people in a area. Social networking is a huge reason as to why Harrisonburg is such an immigrant hub.
In conclusion, although Ali faced many harsh changes from a young life, he keeps his outlook positive and his Kurdish culture close to heart. Ali follows his passions and leans into them wholeheartedly. A characteristic clearly attributed from his father who spoke out against their previous countries government for what he wholeheartedly believed. Although Ali isn’t risking his life for his passions, he is pushing his personal limits to what he can achieve. He owns a hookah bar, coaches and plays soccer, provides services as a independent nutritionist specialists while keeping close to his family and friends. Ali believes in being good and doing good; he truly adds greatness into the American melting pot.
Interview of Ali Barranghi
By Andriana Mesmer and Colette Toma
November 19, 2018 at 3:00 p.m.
COLETTE:
Where were you born and what was your family dynamic?
ALI:
Okay, I was born in Tabriz, Iran. A long time ago. There’s 5 brothers, no sisters. Um family dynamic; poor. I came from a very poor family. So it’s like everything we did in life was like hard work to get where we are now. I’ve been working since I was 14, no, 13. And everybody in the family has been working since then. And now we’re here now. After our fourth store.
COLETTE:
Fourth store? Okay, I guess, how long were you in Iran for?
ALI:
I was in Iran till second grade and then we had to leave.
COLETTE:
Okay, and why did you have to leave?
ALI:
My dad was on death row because he was a political figure. And since I’m a Kurd, Kurdish people, we don’t have our own country, so he spoke out against the government and they caught him. And then, in Iran, if your on death row in Holidays they let you go back home to visit the family before, you know. And my dad decided just to all run away. And so we left.
ANDRIANA:
Wow, that’s intense.
COLETTE:
So it wasn’t a hard decision for him to make, it was just like alright, I’m about to die Im coming back to my family, lets get out of here.
ALI:
I mean it was hard. Yeah the thing was him and my older brother ran away first. And then we all had to run away.
ANDRIANA:
So you didn’t all go together?
ALI:
No, cause like they found out that they had run away so they came after us. And I was in second grade.
ANDRIANA:
So how old were you?
ALI:
Six/Seven. And then, my little brother who was like three/four. Cause we’re all three years apart, so if I was seven, the other one was like four and the other one was one. So it’s like, we couldn’t take any vehicles with us cause we so we couldn’t use a passport to run away. So its like we ran, like running over mountains and shit. And then we were getting chased by the government. And all I remember is running and getting shot at. So that was that. It was fun.
Colette: It was fun..
ANDRIANA:
Like adrenaline rushing you mean?
ALI:
To be honest I don’t remember the adrenaline, I was just running. I was running. My mom had to carry my younger brother.
ANDRIANA:
So you were on foot?
ALI:
Oh yeah, we were crossing the mountain, yeah. And then I had to carry my younger brother. I mean, that’s too much for a seven year, old you know? And then we went to Turkey. Which was worse. Cause the Turks, Turkey doesn’t like the Kurds. So we lived there for two and a half years. I wasn’t allowed to go to school cause I was a Kurd. So its like two years of no school. And everywhere we went we were labeled as a Kurd, we couldn’t work because we were Kurd. So we couldn’t have a job. And working wise, I was shining shoes, like polishing shoes. So that’s what I did. Stole gum, stole cigarettes; sold em. So yeah, that was Turkey.
COLETTE:
So did you do that when you were like what, seven; you said you were there for two and a half years so like seven to nine years old.
ALI:
Basically, yeah. Well, ten. Ten and a half.
COLETTE:
Okay, and how were you labeled as Kurd? Was it how you looked?
ALI:
Language. Cause I mean, we didn’t know the language. So when we go there…
ANDRIANA:
People automatically know…
ALI:
They would know that your Kurd because Kurdistan is part of Iraq, Iran, Turkey and Syria. So it’s like when you go to Turkey, they know your a Kurd you speaking. So it’s like, they knew who we were. So yeah we couldn’t do anything.
COLETTE:
Was your dad and brother there too? Is that where they went?
ALI:
The whole family was there, yeah. They got there before we did, set everything up, and they were working. Just like the same way I was working, but they weren’t polishing shoes, there were other Kurdish establishments that were hiring so they were working there. So yeah, so my dad was a translator over there.
COLETTE:
And why did your dad originally go to Turkey? Did you all know other people that went to Turkey?
ALI:
No, no that was the closest. And Iraq during that time, we couldn’t go cause Saddam was still in power. So we couldn’t run there and Syria was too far so Turkey was the closest place to go.
COLETTE:
Okay and were did you all go after Turkey?
ALI:
We came here. We came in through the UN.
ANDRIANA:
What year? How old were you?
ALI:
Early 2000. 11, yeah I just turned 11. Cause we got here January so December I turned 11.
ANDRIANA:
What was the biggest deciding factor for your family to finally come here?
ALI:
Well we didn’t have an option. The UN is like a lottery. We picked it and the US came up.
ANDRIANA:
Did you come straight to Harrisonburg?
ALI:
Yeah, straight to Harrisonburg.
ANDRIANA:
Was it easy?
ALI:
I mean…
ANDRIANA:
How exactly did you guys get here?
ALI:
Well, airplane. The UN send us here. But when we got here it was a lot easier. A lot of weight was off our shoulder.
ANDRIANA:
It felt like relief…
ALI:
Yes. A lot. But the funny thing is that when we got here the year later 9/11 happened. So it was even worse.
ANDRIANA: Timing…
ALI:
Yeah, so it was like, we left Iran, left Turkey, and then got here. It was more segregation because were Muslim during 9/11.
ANDRIANA:
That’s when like it all sparked.
ALI:
Yeah and like its not; again for eleven and a half cause I was in seventh grade when it happened. For your teachers and friends to turn around and look at you like, ‘why is your people doing this?’
ANDRIANA:
Like they expect you to explain.
ALI:
Yeah, yeah I mean like that’s not even me, that’s the Talibas. Were over here they’re over there. So yeah, fun times.
COLETTE:
Alright, well I guess you said a year after you came is when 9/11 happened; so did you feel welcomed that first year you were here? Was there a large Kurdish community here?
ALI:
Yes. There were at least eighty families, now it’s over a thousand and some hundred.
COLETTE:
Dang did you know some of the families when you came here?
ALI:
No, no.
COLETTE:
Okay so it was purely you pulled from the lottery with the UN, came to Harrisonburg. just because they told you too and you didn’t know anybody here.
ALI:
No, nobody. When we came here there was a couple families at the airport waiting for us because the UN lets the refugee department here know and they send a Kurdish family, whoevers here to come pick us up at the airport.
ANDRIANA:
Just like any random family?
ALI:
Yeah
COLETTE:
Okay, so did you feel welcomed here the first year?
ALI:
Yes
COLETTE:
Okay and was it because of the Kurdish community or was it because of the entire community in general?
ALI:
I mean overall the life was here different. So it like it was easier to adapt to and there was nothing to be scared of.
COLETTE:
Okay so then 9/11 happened and you felt like there was some backlash; or so you said your friends and people were turning to you being like ‘why did this happen?’, so how did that affect you?
ALI:
I guess it made me stronger. Well, I guess I was already going through all this stuff so like I was already used to it. Like as a seven year old your running in the mountains and you get shot at, like what else is left. But the thing was, it was harder for my parents.
ANDRIANA:
Were they getting backlash or was it hard to watch you?
ALI:
It was hard for us to watch them go through that process again. Cause that’s like almost my whole life they went through it. So it was a new beginning for us to come here and than bam. All over again.
ANDRIANA:
It’s happening again in a new country when your trying to like leave it.
ALI:
Yeah. I mean it was tough for my mom. Cause she left her whole family over there and now she’s her by herself other than us. And all these people are looking at us everywhere we go because she has a traditional hijab and stuff on. It was like everywhere we went we would hear this aisle camera focus you know, so it was hard.
COLETTE:
So what jobs..
ALI:
McDonalds.
ANDRIANA:
Was that the first job you got?
ALI:
Yeah, McDonalds than Marshalls, Sheetz. I’ve had a lot of jobs.
COLETTE:
Jobs, so you’ve said you’ve had all types of jobs. I guess you worked at a gym.
ALI:
Well, I used to work out, but the thing is I’m an independent personal trainer. So I go to your gym, I don’t work at a specific gym. So I do my own pricing, they don’t do my pricing for me.
COLETTE:
Okay and when you first got here, what jobs did your parents have?
ALI:
Cargill
COLETTE:
What was it?
ALI:
Cargill, the turkey factory. Cause like to be honest when a foreigner come here, they don’t have any options to go anywhere else, as soon as they get here…
ANDRIANA:
Whatever can get you the money
ALI:
Not even that, it’s like the people around here, they stay to themselves. So if there’s a good job they don’t tell them. They take them to the shitty establishment and bam, you work there.
COLETTE:
Do your parents still work there?
ALI:
No, no not anymore. I’m working now so they’re relaxing now. Cause they took, what, eighteen years taking care of me so its like my turn now. There’s like five brothers, all of us working hard so they just get to relax.
ANDRIANA:
Yeah they get to relax until old age that’s what my dad says too. My dads always like make sure you get a good job so you can take care of me.
ALI:
Yeah so that was highschool life. Cause even highschool life wasn’t that great.
COLETTE:
Yeah just cause it was high school or like why?
ALI:
No cause when you go from seventh to senior year you have no friends other than the foreigners. That’s all we did until senior year i played football. And then I guess I was good so everyone was like ‘oh we’ll be your friends again’
ANDRIANA:
So did you have trouble making friends in high school? Or your only friends were a specific…?
ALI:
All my friends were African American, Hispanics and the Kurds. I had no caucasian friends. Until like senior year. Because they were all looking at me the same way.
ANDRIANA:
Yeah they didn’t warm up to you until…
ALI:
Yeah like they were all my best friends when I go there, sixth through seventh and then as soon as that happened it’s like…
ANDRIANA:
Really? They switched up?
ALI:
Oh yeah, yeah.
ANDRIANA:
Wow I thought you just came, wow thats messed up.
ALI: I mean its life, you get used to it. You adapt to the situation. Which we were used to.
COLETTE:
So your used to change now, how do you take change?
ALI: the same way. Like since my whole life I had to change situations, environments, people so like it’s easy for me now like *snap” like that I change.
COLETTE:
Okay, dang. So I guess you joined football in high school, where you a part of anything else? It didn’t have to be just in school.
ALI:
I was president of the Kurdish Club. I got cut for soccer Freshman, Sophomore…let David know; Freshman, Sophomore, and Junior year got cut.
ANDRIANA:
You got cut, why?
ALI:
The coach wasn’t too open to Muslims. So yeah I got cut.
ANDRIANA:
Wow that’s insane.
COLETTE:
Were you goalie in high school?
ALI:
Yeah my entire life. And then I got cut but then several years later I had two professional tryouts. Like I’m saying that throws you off. Why?
ANDRIANA:
Yeah…like I got cut from my high school team but now these professional teams want me.
ALI:
Yeah and the funny thing is, is I got injured in both try-outs. So like all I do is now, well, I stopped coaching, I used to coach at EMU. I was assistant coach for men’s soccer. So its like maybe I’ll take my skills somewhere else. Bigger school maybe.
COLETTE:
Okay. Did you have any expectations before; I guess we’re now back tracking; but did you have any expectations before coming to Harrisonburg, to America?
ALI:
The thing was back home, we used to see the movies. So its like you know Wild West, Detroit and the shooting New York and stuff so like when we got here it was the opposite, like whats going on this is not the movies we saw. Cause like back home it was illegal to have American channels. So it’s like when the DVDs come everything is censored. Or not DVDs, cassette players, everything is censored. So we’ll see like bits and pieces and then we came here and it wasn’t the same and it was like uncensored, I guess. So it’s different.
ANDRIANA:
So America was like an uncensored movie.
ALI:
Basically, yeah. So yeah, it was different. But it was easy to adapt to.
COLETTE:
Okay yeah cause you’re used to all this adaptations and change and stuff. You said back home, so do you still consider Iran home?
ALI: Well all my families there. Everybody in my family is there. I mean I have two homes; here and there. But like I can’t really go back and live there anymore because well I can’t go back period. Cause my name is on the list.
COLETTE:
Really, so you can never go back?
ALI:
No, the last time I went was before eighteen cause when you turn eighteen in Iran government you have to join the military for two years so if I go back, I have to join the military. And then when I join the military the US would be like why are you joining the Iran military and not the American. So I could lose my citizenship here and my citizenship there.
COLETTE:
So you have Dual Citizenship?
ALI:
Yes.
COLETTE:
Oh wow, okay so you said…before you were eighteen did you go back at all?
ALI:
When I was; 2006. No I lied 2004.
COLETTE:
Okay so you went back once.
ALI:
Yes.
COLETTE:
And what was that experience like?
ALI:
I mean it was very brief. Still had to smuggle myself back and then forth. No really I couldn’t go back.
COLETTE:
Smuggle so like you walked there and walked back?
ALI:
No well this time we had like cousins in Iraq who came with us, yeah so it was easier. I mean it was still horses going across the mountain and stuff but there was nobody shooting at us.
COLETTE:
It was still a little risky so what made you go back?
ALI:
Grandparents. My mother wanted to see them because she hadn’t seen them since, what, ‘97 so she had to go see her parents.
COLETTE:
Has you grandparents or family there ever come visit you over here?
ALI:
They cant. They can’t cause US and Iran don’t get along.
COLETTE:
So they can’t leave at all?
ALI:
We can go visit them but they can’t come here. And then you have to apply for a bunch of crap for them to come here and it takes, what, its been taking like eighteen/nineteen years.
ANDRIANA:
So it’s not worth it.
ALI:
No, no. Cause we applied for it in 2002, no I lied, 2004 we became a citizen. And since then we’ve been waiting on paperwork.
ANDRIANA:
You’re still waiting?
ALI:
Oh yeah, cause US and Iran don’t get along. We’re not best friends. So they can’t come here.
COLETTE:
Okay. You said mostly your mom and her parents, how often does she talk to them like on the phone and stuff?
ALI:
Well, she could go back because she didn’t keep my dads last name she kept her own. So she could go back.
COLETTE:
Oh okay so she has no connection technically to your dad because your dad is the one that was banned.
ALI:
Basically, yeah. Cause I have the same last name. Only my younger brother could go because times have changed so they’re not going to take a little kid and put him in jail. So its like those two could go back. But I can’t go back.I haven’t seen my grandparents since 2004.
COLETTE:
Okay, its 2018 now.
ALI:
Well yeah, ‘19 almost. Next month.
ANDRIANA:
You just made me think of the New Year.
ALI:
I know Christmas in two weeks.
ANDRIANA:
Okay so digging into, I want to know, do you practice any religion currently? Or did you?
ALI:
The thing is, my family is Muslim, we practices Islam my whole life. The thing is I see myself as just do good to people. Cause I see religion as something to hold you back, to keep you in control.
ANDRIANA:
So you don’t have a very specific belief?
ALI:
No, I believe in everything.
ANDRIANA:
I agree, I have like the exact same belief.
ALI:
As long as you have a good heart. I treat people nice. Thats how I see it. And believe in something. So I believe in God. Thats it.
COLETTE:
So you said your whole family is Muslim..
ALI:
Yes.
COLETTE:
So when did you…well, so you don’t practice anymore, right?
ALI:
I mean, to be honest nobody in the family really still does, like they don’t practice. My parents have been mellow since the beginning, they were never forcing us. Cause the more strict you are the more idiot you become later in life, you know?
ANDRIANA:
Yeah that’s true, that’s a good mentality to have.
ALI:
So its like my dad was very mellow, he gave us the opportunity to decide what we wanted.
ANDRIANA:
Thats nice.
ALI:
Oh yeah, cause he gave us the option. He’s like this, this cause like my dad went to school for religion so like he got his masters and everything.
COLETTE:
Okay, so he’s aware of everything, okay.
ALI:
He’s aware of everything. He teaches, he was very mellow about it so its like, ‘you guys are grown make your own decisions’
ANDRIANA:
And do what you want to do…
ALI:
Yeah. Cause like I’m not forcing you to one thing.
COLETTE:
Okay, and then what about language when you came here? Did you all know any English?
ALI:
No, like all we knew was ‘ABC’ and then when we came here; I don’t know have you heard of Dragon Ball Z?
COLETTE:
No.
ANDRIANA:
I have, yes.
ALI:
That’s how I learned my English.
COLETTE:
Dragon Ball Z?
ANDRIANA:
You ever heard of that?
COLETTE:
No…
ANDRIANA:
Did you have the actually ball that you can throw?
ALI:
No, no I didn’t but I’m saying like that’s how I learned my English.
ANDRIANA:
Did you watch the show?
ALI: Yeah cause like that’s how I learned English. The Looney Tunes.
ANDRIANA: That was like your first learning of the language, Dragon Ball Z?
ALI:
Well we used to watch cartoons but not when we got here so like that’s all that was on TV cause I was still young and watching cartoons. That’s how I learned my English. By watching cartoons.
ANDRIANA:
So did you just base it off that and just used that in the real world?
ALI:
Yeah, yeah and just used that. Cause like we had lots of Kurdish friends and I told them not to speak to me in Kurdish. So it’s like, I could break out of my bubble and get comfortable. So like start speaking English. You know, so I got better at that.
COLETTE:
Did the Harrisonburg schools, did they have anything to help you?
ALI:
No, it was shit.
COLETTE:
Okay so you were forced to just use English for like Math and like all these classes you had to take in English.
ALI:
Yeah Harrisonburg schools were stupid. It’s like I didn’t know I had to take the SAT until like a year after I graduated.
COLETTE:
Oh my gosh, okay.
ALI:
No, yeah cause they weren’t telling any foreigners, they don’t tell you anything.
ANDRIANA:
Yeah they want you to figure it your on your own.
ALI:
No, not even that. Everybody else knew cause the counselors would tell ‘em. But it was the foreigners who had no knowledge of anything. So they didn’t tell us anything.
ANDRIANA:
So they subject you basically.
ALI:
Yeah, cause Harrisonburg is a very closed minded city, so everybody in the city..
ANDRIANA:
Yeah, is it still do you think?
ALI:
Some parts.
ANDRIANA:
But do you think it’s gotten, is the school system specifically better?
ALI:
It’s still shit.
ANDRIANA:
…Still shit, damn.
ALI:
Cause I had to tell my younger brother who is in high school now to take the PSAT. And he took it. Cause the counselor didn’t tell him. They still don’t. They still see you as an immigrant. Even though, he was born here. So like they still see you as a different person. They don’t consider you as one of them. Even though like this whole nation was once where immigrants came and started this country.
ANDRIANA:
Yeah I was about to say, we made this country.
ALI:
It’s a melting pot, it’s a melting pot of like every other culture around this world. The Asians came for the railroad, the Irish.
ANDRIANA:
Yeah, where would we be..
ALI:
The Italians. For real.
COLETTE:
Well I guess, your family has like businesses and stuff…
ANDRIANA:
Oh yeah…when did that all start up like how did the idea come up?
ALI:
Well my dad first started up with a windshield business when we lived in Oregon.
COLETTE:
So you lived in Oregon?
ALI:
Yeah, Portland. Well, we we lived, we lived around. We lived in Harrisonburg then to Newark New Jersey. We lived in the ghetto for a whole year. Like it was terrible.
COLETTE:
Yeah Newark is terrible.
ALI:
And we lived in the middle of the ghetto. So its like there were shootings, stabbings, crackheads doing business on the stairs in the hallway doing drugs.
COLETTE:
Yeah Newark was a murder capital.
ALI:
So it’s like, I was eighth grade. Still another life experience you adapt to, so that was that. And then we, my dad, if we would have stayed there we would have been very wealthy.
ANDRIANA:
If you stayed in Newark.
COLETTE:
Why?
ALI:
Business opportunity. So much, so much. But the thing was my dad moved back because of us so we wouldn’t get affiliated with gang members. And that’s what all our apartments were. So it’s like, it was like one two three. The apartment we lived in was affiliated with the Bloods and then right across the street it was the Crips. So it’s like everyday was shooting in the roads and stuff. So it’s like you couldn’t really go out and do anything and there was no school buses in New Jersey so we had to walk to school. Other than transit bus. But transit bus like you have to pay for it so it’s like, we’ll just walk. So it was like, what, five miles a day. Back and forth. Walking. And like seeing people get jumped and fights. Normal stuff.
COLETTE:
Normal stuff. Right.
ALI:
Well to me it is.
ANDRIANA:
Do people like, did you get any backlash there?
ALI:
Not really.
ANDRIANA:
Because there’s just so much more going on.
ALI:
Not even that cause our parents, like, raised us better. So it’s like we had friends who were Kurds as well, but they were getting affiliated with it but we just like step back. So its like you guys do your own thing we’re gonna stay home and play video games. And not affiliate with you all.
ANDRIANA:
Good idea, yeah.
ALI:
So yeah, that was life there. We moved back here, we moved back here my Freshman year. High school. Graduated high school and then my dad decided to move to Oregon because we had family there. We lived in Portland. So my dad opened up a windshield business. That did well, but the weather was terrible. Because like what you have two years of no rain. It’s all sun. And then the rest is live all freezing rain. So it’s like we moved back, my dad opened up his first Hookah bar. It was called Brooklyn’s, downtown. We did well. Well we did very good cause we had to sell that place and open up a second place which was a lot bigger; which was Vibe. Vibe was doing well, and then we sold it. And then when we sold it not even a year they had to shut down.
ANDRIANA:
Why?
ALI:
Well the shooting happened, somebody died in there. So the shooting, somebody got killed. The thing I noticed is that every business we had, after we sold it, they just crumbled. I don’t know why.
ANDRIANA:
Like any business that started behind you?
ALI:
Yeah, cause like, we sold the business to them so they tried to continue it. I guess because of the culture, cause hookah is part of our culture. So it’s like, if you have no knowledge of it..
ANDRIANA:
You’re not gonna thrive in it?
ALI:
Yeah, it’s like opening a Mexican restaurant, but like, all the cooks are Asian. You know? It’s not gonna succeed, because you have no laws of culture, so you’re just out there blind.
ANDRIANA:
Yeah.
ALI:
The same thing with Vibe, doing great and then we sold it, bam, dude like less than six months, almost a year, opened, and then closed down.
COLETTE:
Who did you sell it to?
ALI:
It was a Caucasian dude.
COLETTE:
Okay
ALI:
Yeah, and then I opened the one right on Neff besides,
ANDRIANA:
Social?
ALI:
Yeah, Social. I opened that place up, cause my dad wanted nothing to do with it. So I was like, I’ll open one up. Just to fix our name, because everybody used to think Vibe was still us. So, I opened the place up to fix our name, and then my dad out of nowhere decided to come out of retirement. He’s at the store working too, so it’s like, I let everybody think he’s the owner so nobody comes to me, he deals with it. I just deal with the paperwork
ANDRIANA:
He does all the dirty work?
ALI:
Well, it’s not really dirty work when I do everything else, behind the books, you know what I’m saying?
ANDRIANA:
Yeah, so he just deals with the people in the front?
ALI:
Yes! The needy people
ANDRIANA:
Yeah the people who need everything right then and there.
ALI:
The ones that come in who are very needy, I’m like, “pops go ahead, you got it.”
ANDRIANA:
“I’ll stay back here”
ALI:
I’ll stay behind the bar.
COLETTE:
So you run the bar, and you’re also an athletic trainer?
ALI:
Okay, I run the bar, i’m the assistant coach, was doing it together, and on the side I was doing personal training, and I’m also a fitness nutritionist. So it’s like three jobs.
COLETTE:
Okay, are you still an EMU assistant coach?
ALI:
No, season’s over, and like I said; I’m probably not going back, cause maybe, I don’t know, I’ll go somewhere else.
ANDRIANA:
Do something else, yeah!
ALI:
Go to a different school, something?
COLETTE:
Go to a different school and leave Harrisonburg? Or go to a different school in this area?
ALI:
In this area, or maybe leave. I don’t know, there’s still so much to do. I haven’t decided. I’m not going to New Jersey, because I’m qualified for the Red Bulls soccer team, youth team. So I can apply to that. I already talked to someone, that said I have an 80% chance of getting hired for the goalkeeper coach. So yeah there’s so much to do, I can open up my own second place, I don’t know.
ANDRIANA:
So many options!
ALI:
I’m trying to still figure it out
ANDRIANA:
What is the year span of the first business to like…
ALI:
Well from 2009 to 2010 was the first time, and then we sold that in 2011. Six months later, we opened the second place up, but then we took a year and a half break from Vibe to Social.
ANDRIANA:
So in that year in a half break what did you guys do?
ALI:
We hustled; I did Uber I did lyft, I was doing personal training.
COLETTE:
When did you go to Oregon? So you went to Harrisonburg, went back to Newark?
ALI:
2008, we went to Oregon and came back 2009.
COLETTE:
Oh, so you were only there for a year, but you weren’t because family was there.
ALI:
Yeah, I know the families here now because they moved here too.
COLETTE:
Oh so you took them back with you?
ALI:
Well 10 years later they decided to move down here. So yeah, that was that.
ANDRIANA:
I wanted to know if the businesses, reflect your culture? Do you think it helped maintain or shows Harrisonburg a little snippit?
ALI:
Well the thing is like it has a culture that people around here, so they know about like Kurds, because like all the stores we opened it up. So they have knowledge of who we are. So it’s like it opened up people’s eyes because like we have customers from Lexington coming like they have no clue, who are the Kurds? Now they know who we are, but people from Crozat near Charlottesville, they come here and they were like, there were hella backward. Now they’re more cultured. They try our food. Yeah. So yeah, it’s helped us a lot.
Andriana: Do you think that the Kurdish community is strong in Harrisonburg?
ALI:
Very, very strong. The thing was like anything we do, we’re all united. Like anything we do..
ANDRIANA:
Reflects on?
ALI:
Yeah, it’s just their image. So it was like anything we do negative look, bam, because that’s how the city is. The Kurds are “terrible” people.
ANDRIANA:
So it’s like one person could do something bad, and it would be like all of you are bad.
ALI:
It’s like that for all of Harrisonburg, like Hispanics do something bad and it’s like, oh, they’re all bad because one person messed up. The Kurds are the same way. Arabs are the same way.
ANDRIANA:
Probably anyone who isn’t Caucasian?
ALI:
Facts, right! Because that’s how the city is.
COLETTE:
So does that make you feel like you have to tip toe a little more, or you have to be cautious?
ANDRIANA:
Or are you used to it?
ALI:
I guess both. I’m used to it because I’ve lived here, but like it’s still different in a way because sometimes you gotta be careful. Plus now I’m the owner of a store so I got to be a lot more cautious.
ANDRIANA:
Yeah because then it will reflect on…
ALI:
Everything. Not just the business, my family, because like anywhere you go like, Oh, you’re Ali’s brother, you have the same last name so we can’t really affiliate with you. So. Yeah.
ANDRIANA:
Do you identify with your American culture?
ALI:
Our pride is so high for Kurdish-American not American-Kurdish, so like the Kurd always comes first.
ANDRIANA:
So you identify with one more than the other, definitely?
Ali: Yes, but either way we’re still American, but like the Kurd always comes first no matter where we go. Because our people, our pride is so high. So it’s like, Kurd always comes first. So even in Iran, we were Kurdish-Iranian. We weren’t Iranian-Kurds,we’re Kurd-Iranians. Like Iraqi, it’s not Iraqi-Kurds, it’s Kurdish from Iraq.
ANDRIANA:
Do speak the language at home?
ALI:
Yes.
ANDRIANA:
Do you speak any English at home?
ALI:
No. Because my dad didn’t want us to forget our culture.
ANDRIANA:
That’s how my mom was, because I’m half Thai. So I would speak only Thai at home.
COLETTE:
So your entire family, like five brothers and your two parents. You all live in the same house?
ALI:
Culture, we all live there, so my brother has his wife and the kid there too, in the basement,
COLETTE:
So it was just going to always be like that?
ALI:
So we built a house next to it, just expanded.
COLETTE:
You had also said that like having a job, you would take care of your parents now even though your dad came out of retirement.
ALI:
Yeah!
COLETTE:
So it’s all just part of the culture?
ALI:
Yes it’s all part of the culture
COLETTE:
You all are staying together no matter what?
ALI:
Yes, no matter what because the family that eats, they all stay together.
ANDRIANA:
You eat together, you know there’s a saying, oh, I forgot the rest of it.
ALI:
The thing is, our culture is like if the family goes hungry, you’re hungry. So it’s like we all eat together.
ANDRIANA:
And if you’re all down, you’re all down together?
ALI:
Yeah, and you all come up together. So if you see my dad struggling, I’m struggling too. So it’s not just on one person’s shoulder, it’s all of us.
COLETTE:
So would you say your culture is kind of like a community, because American culture seems to be very individualistic.
ALI:
Yes, ours is not like that.
COLETTE:
So would you say you’re more community centered rather than?
ALI:
Yes but it’s not really communities, it’s more family centered. It’s all about the family. Family always comes first.
ANDRIANA:
Well you said that Kurdish community here is very strong too, so would you say your “family” is only your blood related family, or would you say you have family outside of that
ALI:
To be honest, if you dig back to ancient history, we’re probably some way related to the Kurds here too. Because like my grandfather and my great grandfather used to go back and forth between Iraq, because the only job you could have had back then, because we were Kurds, they smuggled cigars and cigarettes and stuff. They probably had some kind of relatives there that we have no knowledge of, so it’s possible.
ANDRIANA:
So you’re ancestry is all connected?
ALI:
But the thing is none of us, like if we try to look into you’re not going to find it. Because we don’t have records of it.
ANDRIANA:
You’d have to dig so deep.
ALI:
Not even that, there is none. There is none, it’s not like here. Over here you could date back to anything back in dinosaur ages, whatever it is. Not like that because there were no records of it. Yeah. Everybody was scared of how many kids they had. So there was no records of it.
ANDRIANA:
So do you plan to stay in Harrisonburg? For like the rest of your life?
ALI:
I don’t know yet. I have no clue.
ANDRIANA:
Too Far ahead?
ALI:
Too far ahead. I plan one day ahead because I might not wake up tomorrow.
ANDRIANA:
That’s true. Do you like Harrisonburg?
ALI:
I don’t mind it, I realized I got to sometimes dumb down, because i’m at the Bar, I’ve talked to people, had conversations. I realized that like, I need to mellow down. Act like a “bro.”
ANDRIANA:
Kinda assimilate to other people?
ALI:
Basically. I gotta get down to their level because they have no knowledge of anything in the world. So I’m like all we can talk about is..
ANDRIANA: It can only go so far.
ALI:
To be honest, it can’t really go far, because like they have no knowledge of anything else but America.
ANDRIANA:
So it’s like a hey, how are you conversation?
ALI:
Basically, how is your day? Like what do you go through as you do today? So i’m basically a psychiatrist behind the bar. I’ll listen to your problems and give you advice because you’re not going to listen, but I’m gonna give you advice
COLETTE:
Anymore of your story you want to share?
ALI:
Well my parents are open to marriage outside of culture if that’s important. Because my brother’s wife is Filipino. She’s a Filipino, Roman Catholic. So yeah.
COLETTE:
Yeah, I definitely have a few friends who were raised Muslim that it’s not okay for them to be like..
ALI:
It depends who the parents are.
COLETTE:
Yeah. I guess that’s true. What about not just man and woman marriages and stuff like that. How’s your family with that sort of stuff?
ALI:
They’re open minded.
COLETTE:
Pretty sweet. Okay, cool.
ALI:
I Mean that’s not really my business, like our family’s business. So like if you’re into it, go for it, whatever you’re into.
COLETTE:
What are your political views?
ALI: I really don’t have any. Every time I vote it’s been liberals, because I didn’t care about anybody else. I think the only time I actually voted for somebody was Obama, his first term. And that was it, I don’t really pay attention because it brings negativity to my life and the way the world is going, everybody’s opinions are irrelevant to somebody else, so I can’t really voice my opinion. Someone will be like, oh no, yours was wrong, and then when you say something, I’m like, oh yours is wrong, and then she says, oh yours is wrong. So we can’t really agree on something. The way the society is going, it’s like everybody’s opinion is wrong.
ANDRIANA: Because everyone has such a different opinion.
ALI:
Because like back in the day it was a lot easier, we all agreed on something. Now a days we don’t because of the way social medias going, the news, the President, so like we can’t really agree on anything. That’s why we left Iran, because it was like that then. Because I think America is 25 years behind everywhere else in the world, but people here think we’re so much ahead on everything. We’re behind. The stuff I was going through in Iran, is happening here now at this time when we’re supposed to be so much more ahead of everyone else in the world.
ANDRIANA:
If you had a choice, would you have came to Harrisonburg? Were you too young to decide or does it not even matter?
ALI:
It doesn’t really matter. Everyone we would’ve went it would have been the same thing. The same 9/11 would have happened. Same thing. If I had the option i’d go to Europe.
ANDRIANA:
To Europe, oh my god that sounds great. Just like no America at all?
ALI:
Because half of my dad’s relatives live in Europe. My aunt lives in Finland,Helsinki. My cousin lives in Manchester, I have a cousin that lives in London, I have family in Germany and a family in Italy, which they don’t know we exist because like I dated some stuff back that was actually available. We have a bunch of Italian family that are in Italy now and that dated back to Renaissance ages that have the same last name as we did. They were from a very wealthy family in Fiorentino.
COLETTE:
Did you do one of those like “23 and me,” is that what you mean by dated back, like heritage.com?
ALI:
Yeah, something like that. I was randomly on there and typed my last name and it was like You have all this family in Italy, and there’s a dude on the Italian national team who has a very similar last name to mine and it has the same meaning. So I know we have family around and my grandfather was fluent in Russian, so he could’ve been Russian. I know we’re part German as well, because when that trial came in they went everywhere.
COLETTE:
So you talk a lot about keeping negativity out and bringing positivity in. Sorry, you don’t talk a lot about it but it kind of just seems to be a theme of yours.
Ali:
My whole life has been negative so I try to stay positive.
ANDRIANA:
That’s good because I feel like in some cases, people would have experiences like yours and be down for the rest of their lives.
ALI:
I realized that I don’t even get offended at stuff anymore. Like my friends come and they joke, they make a bunch of terrorist jokes.I just laugh at it.
ANDRIANA:
It doesn’t affect you at all?
ALI:
No as long as parents aren’t involved, I don’t really care. They make a bunch of jokes but it doesn’t really hurt anymore. It used to in the beginning, it was tough in seventh grade.
COLETTE:
When you were in seventh grade, did you stand up to those jokes?
ALI:
I mean there was fights. There was not a week that I didn’t get in a fight, over some students.
ANDRIANA:
Did you think it was going to get better?
ALI:
At the time, no. Then senior year hit I play football, and I’ve gotta sword it seems like. It wasn’t a full ride, but like if I were to play one more year, I would have had a full ride to Tech.
COLETTE:
For football?
ALI:
Yeah. Well I guess that’s when people wanted to start being my friend because people were like, “Oh Ali he’s good enough,” and I was like, “you all suck, get out of my life I don’t affiliate with y’all.” Then I turned to my friends over there, my hispanic friends, and i’m like, “Hey!” This was American football, not soccer.
ANDRIANA:
Yeah, I assumed that.
ALI:
I should’ve played in high school. I could’ve played my senior year and I was like hmm?
ANDRIANA:
What made you not?
ALI:
Because I was scared I’ll get cut again because they didn’t give me a specific reason why I got cut. They just cut me. He didn’t tell me to work on this for next season.
COLETTE:
Did you keep playing soccer outside though? With friends?
ALI:
Yes, everything I learned about soccer was from Youtube, because I didn’t get the training in high school, because I got cut so I was watching Youtube. I haven’t missed a Man United game because I’m a big Manchester United fan. I haven’t missed a game since ‘98. I could wake up at like 7:00 AM to watch the games. So it’s like everything I learned is from watching tv, again, just like English and watching cartoons.
COLETTE:
I guess you got injured for both your tryouts, but what professional teams did you try out for?
ALI:
Well, one was a Scandinavian team, that was like a tier 4 team. The other one was a division 5 German team. At the division 5 German team, I messed up my shoulder, which is still messed up, and then the Scandinavian team, I tore my meniscus. After that I was like, hmm, I guess professionals not for me. So I started coaching. I was coaching at Fort Defiance high school, and then Broadway high school assistant coaches, and then EMU 2 years later for 2 seasons. By coaching a college I realized I could easily make the teams.
ANDRIANA:
Based off what?
ALI:
The talent of the schools we played. Even like watching some JV games, if I had the proper training I would have made it.
ANDRIANA:
The college team?
ALI:
Oh yeah, definitely.
ANDRIANA:
I thought you were talking about professional.
ALI:
Professional, I can see myself not D1, but D2 maybe D3. Also I didn’t get to go to college because I had to work, and I didn’t take the SAT.
ANDRIANA:
So after high school you dove straight into work?
ALI:
Yes, Work.
ANDRIANA:
Was that in the first windshield business?
ALI:
Well I graduated in ‘06. Yeah, 2006 I graduated high school. I went to Blue Ridge and realized school wasn’t for me; I didn’t want to go to elementary school all over again. That’s what it felt like, and then I saw my parents were struggling so we started working. I started working at Marshalls.
ANDRIANA:
Okay. So this is when you start working at Marshall’s and Mcdonald’s?
ALI:
No, Mcdonald’s was junior year of high school, and then, Marshall’s, and then Sheetz. Walmart for a year, a year and a half because I went back again, and then I’ve been working at the restaurant since then.
COLETTE:
What about your brothers, did they go straight into business after high school too?
ALI:
One is at EMU doing business, and I was his coach for soccer because he plays goalie. One just came back from the Philippines with his wife, he got his bachelor’s in the Philippines for a biochemist, and his wife has a bachelor’s for RN so they could all easily work here. My older brother just graduated for bioengineering at EMU and now he lives in northern Virginia, and he wants to continue school to be a surgeon. Then the younger one is in 10th grade now. So that’s everyone.
ANDRIANA:
Well thank you for letting us interview you and sharing your story.
ALI:
You’re very welcome.
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Hannah Smith
Interview with Hannah Smith
We had the pleasure of getting to interview Hannah Smith, PhD. who was born in London, England and moved to Harrisonburg in 2012. She is a dual citizen and works at James Madison University teaching and researching child development and best practices for working with children. We interviewed Hannah on Tuesday November 13, 2018 at her home. She warmly greeted us and we enjoyed some tea in living room while her 16-month old son played. While getting to know her, we were able to learn much about her experiences coming to the United States and life in Harrisonburg.
Migration
Hannah differs from many immigrants because she has been a dual citizen of both England and the United States since she was born because her mother is from the United States. Hannah was eligible for citizenship because of United States policy that allow for citizenship to be extended to children of citizens if born overseas. Initially this was only if both parents were citizens before being changed to either parent being a citizen. Without this policy in place, Hannah would not have been eligible for citizenship and her migration story would be very different.
Growing up she visited the United States often, spending some summers with her grandparents in New Hampshire. As a teenager she wasn’t sure living in the United States was something that would happen. As she told us, “In that time I remember thinking you know this is a weird place. Mom I don’t know that I want to keep coming back here.” When she finished high school she decided to move to Trinidad where she lived for a couple of years before heading back to England.
It wasn’t until 2012 when Hannah decided to move to the United States. Since she is a dual citizen, her migration process was fairly uneventful in the sense that she already had a legal status that would allow her to permanently reside here. She had some luggage, got on a plane and came to the United States. One of the struggles that she did encounter with her dual citizen status was the difficulty in maintaining a presence in two countries. As she describes when she first moved here:
Living straddling two places in terms of possessions. So I, When I came here [it was] with a suitcase. That has evolved. For a number of years when I was first here. I didn’t have the things of my life that were meaningful to me. Or even some of my clothes or filing system. And so eventually I went back. And so, I have stuff at my mom’s and I packed up and shipped a bunch of boxes.
This is something that Hannah still deals with today. She would still like to live in England again someday which complicates the decision of what to bring over from England and what to leave behind.
The reasons for Hannah coming to Harrisonburg are similar to those for many immigrants, a family network and employment opportunity. Hannah first learned about Harrisonburg because of a cousin who is a professor at JMU. Family networks are a common pull factor for many immigrants. It has become an even stronger factor in the United States since the passage of the Hart-Celler Act of 1965. This legislation made family based immigration the primary factor in determining who could come here. While Hannah already had the legal ability to come the United States, without family here it is unlikely she would have ever moved to Harrisonburg specifically.
Another reason she came here was employment opportunities related to JMU. Prior to coming to Harrisonburg Hannah had been working with children and young adults, specifically underserved populations of children and teens. She found that approaches taken by newly appointed President Alger resonated with her and her interest in applying research to creating policy for how to best serve and help children and young adults.
Membership
When immigrants go to a new country, there are two borders that exist. The first is the territorial or geographic border, crossing this border is the physical act of entering the country. The second border that exists is the internal border of citizenship. The process of becoming a citizen is not the easiest task; it involves collecting legal documents, filling out bureaucratic forms, fees, and an investment of time. Hannah, being the daughter of an American citizen, received citizenship at birth despite being born in England. So when she moved here she had already crossed the internal border. The benefits of already being a part of that inner group has not been lost on Hannah. When asked about when she realized that her dual citizenship was a unique situation she relayed to us:
The magnitude of that position didn’t really hit me until I was here and started to see how much people go through when they don’t have that. So, I left London because I wanted to. Not because I needed to. Not because I was running away from anything. Not because I was in any of the number of challenging or adverse situations that most, many people who immigrate are, whether that’s just a purely economic one or otherwise. And so realizing what a big deal it is, no one’s gonna hassle me about being here in the slightest. I’m already at benefit because I’m middle class, white, and educated so even if I didn’t have a passport, it would be a lot easier for me. It is a lot easier for me. Regardless of whether people know my, my citizenship.
This doesn’t necessarily mean that she is viewed the same as a native local, her accent is a constant badge of her foreign-ness. Hannah has felt welcome and well received in Harrisonburg, even staying here longer than she expected because she enjoys the area and also met her husband here. Even as she begins to feel more connected to the area and more at home, she is reminded frequently that she is a foreigner because of her accent. Hannah describes:
My English accent is something that is pointed out here. And it is never, obviously pointed out in England. And so I am made aware of my Englishness. You know I can phone LD&B insurance and speak to Rebecca and know that she’ll know who I am because she’ll remember my voice for example or meet people a couple of times and they go oh yeah I remember you and I say aw yes it’s the accent that gives me away.
Her accent is novelty in the Shenandoah Valley and as such piques the interest of native residents. She also noted how when she is in New York City, her accent is never pointed out to her, highlighting a difference in the immigrant experience in a large urban setting versus the moral rural Harrisonburg.
One of the interesting results of this focus on Hannah’s accent is an observation Hannah has made about the English accent at large in America. Hannah has taught and worked in some area schools with students and many students would comment on and compliment her on her accent. As Hannah explained to us:
One of the things that I noticed was that students would often say to me that they really love my accent. Implicitly what they were saying was “Your accent is better than mine.” Because people think that you’re smart. You’ve got an English accent, right? There’s a huge assumption there … If those kids are saying your accent’s better than mine, what they’re saying is that “mines not good.” Often if that’s either country accent or Hispanic accents. There’s a whole hierarchy there around assumptions about intelligence, assumptions about worthiness. None of these kids ever said that explicitly but, that’s part of what was going on. I always made a point of saying “Thank you. I like your accent too.”
We both found this to be an extremely powerful insight. The value or meaning assigned to accents is a hugely powerful social factor that carries with it important consequences that need to be evaluated. It is interesting to consider that within Hannah’s experience it can be seen how in a location with a long history and population of immigrants like New York City accents seem to be given less credence or are pointed out as frequently. While in a smaller city with a more recent history of migration, accents are much more prevalent and on the surface.
Connections
Hannah still maintains a strong connection with her homeland via many avenues. She continues to travel home at least once a year to see her friends and family still living in England. Her family will also come to the United States and she is looking forward to her father coming for Christmas so that she can partake in some more traditional English Christmas activities. She is grateful for the many technologic ways that she can stay in touch with her home whether it be through Facebook, Face Time, or any of the other forms of social media. Hannah still likes to enjoy a cup of tea and some traditional English foods she has not found herself playing up any of these symbols of her home. She has noticed that she has begun to adopt some more American practices such as the styles of clothing she wears or the fact that she will now wear baseball caps.
One of the more amusing and benign American customs she has adopted is the high five. After we concluded the interview and were preparing to leave, Hannah told us a story of how she had attempted to give her father a high five after something good had happened. He responded by blankly staring at her, moving his eyes from her face to her upheld palm in a state of somewhat confusion. It is clear to say that the high five is an Americanism not present in other cultures. This small act, while wholly unremarkable, demonstrates how differently cultures can develop in their everyday interactions, even when having many shared cultural norms and mores.
Conclusion
Hannah Smith came to the United States for many of the same reasons that other immigrants do, family networks and employment opportunities. While many of the same pulls led to her migration to the United States, Hannah is also a unique case being a dual citizen since birth. Her status as a citizen before her migration has allowed for a smoother process and given her a level of stability and security, knowing that her place here in the United States is not at jeopardy.
Todd Dubyk: [00:00:08] So, we are here. I’m Todd Dubyk and this is Cabot Martin. We are here with Hannah Smith, talking about her story of immigrated to the United States. So let’s just start at the beginning. Hannah where are you from.
Hannah Smith: [00:00:21] I’m from London England. That’s where I grew up and lived with the exception of a few years. That’s where I lived all of my life before coming here to the States.
Todd Dubyk: [00:00:38] You said six and a half years ago? So thats going to be the beginning of 2012.
Hannah Smith: [00:00:44] Correct. Yeah. June 2012.
Cabot Martin: [00:00:49] What can you tell us about, in our sociology terms, the pull factors. What were the things that made you decide to come to the states. Also, we will ask questions but if you would rather Give us a big introduction or if you would rather go off on tangents at any time, say whatever it takes.
Hannah Smith: [00:01:06] I’m sure that you have really well-designed open ended question. *laugh* I may Be slightly different from some of the other examples of immigrants in the I’m a dual citizen so I am a U.S. citizen anyway. My mom is American and has been in England for close to 50 years and is still there. So my dad is English. My mom is American so I have lots of family here including family in Harrisonburg not just In the country generally. So the pull for coming to Harrisonburg for me at that time was overall. An interest in being somewhere new a bit more of an outdoorsy lifestyle. I’m a city girl and I love that and I love nature and wanted to be somewhere where that would be closely accessible. And I also have a Cousin and his family who live here, He’s actually a professor of JMU which is where I first found out about JMU and professionally I was interested in. Some of the things that were going on at JMU in 2012 the president had just started some of his approaches were resonant for me because I work with children and young people and yet I also have this academic work that I do. I’m very interested in how policy of how we work with young people is informed by research. So I work in this academic field in order to work better with children and training people who are children so the engaged idea with JMU and some of the ways in which those that approach is being applied was appealing to me.
Cabot Martin: [00:03:00] When you say the approach of young people do you mean like children or like the students that you’re working with?
Hannah Smith: [00:03:05] So prior to coming to Harrisonburg. I hadn’t taught in university. I had completed a PHD I had been working in my professional life with children and teenagers. So when I’m talking about Applying research and understanding of how to have best practices for the interests of working with children young people that I’m talking about largely underserved populations of children and teens stay.
[00:03:37] Interesting, so it was like JMU was doing such interesting work with what you were doing![00:03:45] It wasn’t like I researched the whole country and thought JMU that’s the place for me. It was a confluence of having family day being interested in in an outdoorsy life thinking that coming to Harrisburg was actually a step. I didn’t Imagine particularly I would Stay in Harrisonburg. I didn’t think of Harrisburg as being my final destination. The stepping stone. It really it was a confluence of of opportunities and timing for myself. I was a couple years after finishing my PHD and had been working as a social market researcher in London. And wanted to do somewhat more applied. So when I came here I started working with local teenagers in their schools.
Cabot Martin: [00:04:44] What does that mean that you’re working as a social market research. What kind of stuff is that.
Hannah Smith: [00:04:48] So that is an example of what social market researcher would you say market research would be OK. I want to sell this thing. How do I sell it. Social Market Research is about OK. We want to implement behavior change we want to understand How to Influence. OK I’ll give you some examples. So gun crime knife crime among youth. you interview a bunch of youth to work out what’s happening in those Environments and how do you produce government sponsored messaging or programming that will be effective with those young people. I was very interested when the Olympics was going to happen in London. And the transport system. Well what are we going to do. We’re going to have a million more people travelling on these trains that we got. So there was a very long And detailed set of studies into how do we effectively message people to change their behavior so Londoners needed to take different routes so that all the visitors could take the routes on the trains and the buses and be in that be effective means Transport. Which would require me as a regular Londoner to take a different route. So we sampled a whole load of messaging around what’s gonna make me actually change my behaviour or what’s just going to piss me off. And so social market research is around behaviour change and understanding how do people perceive the messaging that they get. What’s effective and what’s not effective.
Cabot Martin: [00:06:35] For the government or also for private companies?
[00:06:38] For a private company would seek to repeatedly win bids to work for the government for these particular jobs. So we have an outside agency you have. That puts a bid in. So this is what we can do. This is how we’re going to do it.
[00:06:56] This is how many hundreds of interviews we’re going to do. This is how we’re going to test the messaging. So it’s whatever whatever they you would be working on possibly multiple projects at the same time. Government initiative to get people cooking more healthy food. You traveled around the country interviewing people about around what are barriers to them you could be healthy. What kinds of messages are effective them. What kinds of recipes are when the government puts out a series of advertisments, local recipe books in supermarkets etc etc that have been tested to know that they’re going to be effective in supporting people to do what the government is trying to get them to do right.
Cabot Martin: [00:07:46] That sounds very applied. You said you be here because you wanted to do something more applied, but that seems like a big world.
[00:07:51] It’s also applied in the sense that if you’re trying to help make a better world that’s one way you can do it. You. Know my particular interest is is in working with children and young people around broad education and wellbeing. So I did someone that was connected with that stuff on gun crime and we we did a lot of projects around them and you use ideas about masculinity and femininity in that. So we started digging into some of those attitudes and experiences and looking at them. From young people to have more healthy attitudes around sex and sexuality. So those are two very interesting.
Cabot Martin: [00:08:41] Kind of like different sides of this issue. You said you came here because you liked the outdoorsy element. Did you ever end up doing that stuff?
Hannah Smith: [00:08:52] Cycling and hiking. And yeah you can see the mountains.
Cabot Martin: [00:08:57] Yeah I live in Charlottesville which is just on the other side of the mountain. Yeah. So it’s kind of comforting to know that home is just on the other side of that.
Hannah Smith: [00:09:05] Yeah that’s cool yeah.
Todd Dubyk: [00:09:08] getting into of you deciding to come over here. Obviously Your mother you said wasn’t American and immigrated. Was there a history of other people in your family people that you knew coming to the US or was that something you even thought would happen.
Hannah Smith: [00:09:27] To answer your last question first. No I hadn’t conceived of moving here. Actually no really. I had come here in The summers with my grandparents as a kid. But really it’s my my grandfather Lived in New Hampshire and obviously that was very outdoorsy. Yeah I’ve had an imagined moving here. Its Interesting. So I remember as a teenager coming here And There are lots of stereotypes about Americans who you come here and. Americans on the surface in comparison to English people are much more friendly. Hi how are you. Have a nice day. They’re also much more overweight. And drive great big huge cars. Walk anyway. These are stereotypes right. But when you come for a brief period of time from a very different culture and you see those things you go it must be true. This is this is strange and this. I’m 43 now. This was Five years ago talking about So in terms of world politics in America’s position And in that time I remember thinking you know this is a weird place. Mom I don’t know that I want to keep coming back to this. I don’t know anywhere that’s not always in place right. That’s true. I’m a teenager I’m kind of getting socially minded and I remember thinking This is a very strange place. In other are people starving in other parts of the world people seriously underserved in other parts of the world. And yet you are. You have this huge is obesity problem here. I just do those sort of connections that you make without much grounding. Then I met more of my family and my cousins and. Realized you know actually good people who do good work just get bored wherever they get bored. America America’s not so bad it’s just it. Was a bit weird in its own way. Yeah. So I remember thinking as a teenager. This is a strange place. I’m not you know. I’m not sure. So my evolution into being interested in moving here. Kind of rational and kind of got. So that was the last question that you had asked.
Todd Dubyk: [00:13:01] Yeah. There’s more family people from growing up but were there people migrated and moving that had maybe influence too? Was getting up and going someplace new something that was a real possibility?
[00:13:18] Yeah. Great question. So definitely a possibility. And so I lived I lived in the Caribbean I lived in other parts of England as a teenager. And while I was studying and so and as did friends of mine and I have family. With the Caribbean and with the states and have always been interested in traveling and grew up in a household. Both my parents had traveled a lot and my mom was on international affairs and so we had people around the world coming through the house and we taught music from around the world and food from around the world and. I was just. I was somewhere the other day and I was with family and I was sitting right there with him and I was just doing something and was whoever I was with said you know that’s even not most Westerners. Can sit in that position. And I saw my mom sit like this as a as a normal position as a kid. Yeah. And people from other parts of the world sit like this. And so I just saw him do that just. Right. So the notion that the world is a place out there that’s interesting and that you can be. More. Than just where you are right now is that you have always been. And I’ve. Worked with many teenagers who are Ah you know 15 16 17. And not only have they not been out of their city they’ve not been out of the area. And they all kinds of reasons for that but I definitely grew up in an environment in which the world was there to be explored. And that was in. I was 18 when I told my mom was going to Trinidad. She said Well that’s a great idea.
Cabot Martin: [00:15:03] That’s huge. That’s really interesting with the idea of being in a household that’s like a global household.
Hannah Smith: [00:15:08] It’s in those things. Yes knowing that’s out there for you. Definitely informative.
Cabot Martin: [00:15:17] Not to talk about myself but I’ve definitely just even going from Charlottesville to here. Thinking about my hometown not as just a place to be from but just a place like everywhere else as a place. It’s possible to go to places other places are different.
Hannah Smith: [00:15:36] And you know you don’t know what’s normal to you until you step out and you don’t know. I think in many ways you. You learn so much of what’s possible in the world and what’s different in the world. And you also learn so much about yourself and your own upbringing and some perspective on. Immediate family culture but also your environment and your social culture that I think is pricey. Often wanted to do in working with children, You know you think you’re hard done by because you have to go to school. Let’s take you to a place where kids are breaking into the school because they’re so desperate to get an education in that sense of fleeting generalized statement. But you know that sort of thing. Up in some film for me growing up in an environment where there was all kinds of contrasts. All kinds of awareness about the world. Yes very.
Cabot Martin: [00:16:41] There’s so many different kinds of being aware to, what you what you think about your education. What do you think by your food compared to what *unintelligible*.
Hannah Smith: [00:16:55] If you if you ever meet people from your 50 meters.That’s Very different from meeting people. Five ten thousand miles away. But also I bet London was a place where there were people from. Oh yeah. Yeah. It’s one of the things that I find challenging actually about being in Harrison but. As much as Harrisonburg is a diverse community it’s not a mixing community experience. I walked down to the International Festival and. That looks like normal life to me. But you never see that any of the rest of the time you’ve been to the International Festival. It’s it’s it’s in September. Do you know about it. I think it’s it’s well worth it because that if you. Buy. Immigration. That’s a context that is being. Generated in order to give some support to acknowledging the value of different cultures from different places. But it means that you will that. You walk around and there are multiple languages. Multiple ways of addressing multiple ways. Using your your body communicating physical ideas about physical touch and space etc etcetc. Yes. London is like that.
Cabot Martin: [00:18:19] I went to my dad teaches at the University of Virginia. He was teaching class in London. He took my mom and I Last spring, I was just shocked by like the like it it feels so much different than New York. She feels diverse in its own way. But just like a few of the cities is like so many things are happening and there’s so many different perspectives.
Todd Dubyk: [00:19:44] Which has been your favorite (vacation)?
Hannah Smith: [00:19:50] London this is great because that’s the opportunity for him to meet everybody like the family. You asked Do I know many people who have moved to other countries. I guess a few. It’s not been a massive Massive exodus. Right. Do I know a lot of people who have done a lot of traveling. I know a lot of people in England who are from other countries. Yes. There was People were moving not necessarily in huge waves but it was certainly something out there. Yeah and it can happen. I could go again. So yes to to and fro. So in London. You know a lot of people from Europe a lot of people from Central and South America.
Cabot Martin: [00:20:44] So you were you’re saying that you were thinking Harrisonburg might be your stepping stone, and then you’re thinking you’re going to go to a different group of people and do something like that.
Hannah Smith: [00:21:03] I think that’s a good likelihood and good possibility yes. Yeah. My husband. I. Met him. He’s from Pittsburgh. Because Of some of those points that we’re talking about in an urban environment. The urban environment that we would choose it would be much more usual to be in a much more mixed environmentally. That’s something that. We both want for ourselves and our kids.
Cabot Martin: [00:22:15] If you’re looking for urban places to live Charlottesville is right there. It’s the best it gets!
Hannah Smith: [00:22:21] So two comments about that one. It’s interesting. You would call Charlottesville a big place, to me a big place has 12 million people here. I’m not saying that that’s the size that I would want. Charlottesville weirdly feels more like a city than harrisonburg because the population is the same sense. And they both have a universe yet that does Not just have different cultural trajectories for how they’ve gotten to where they are right now. And you can feel it. Very much so. And it’s also interesting that you think that where you’re from is the best place I’ve ever. Because this is also part of the benefit of all. Around the world and seeing that people feel attached, theres Benefit to seeing the benefit of different places.
Cabot Martin: [00:23:24] Funny that I say Charlottesville is like a city it’s like not even that much bigger than Harrisonburg.
Todd Dubyk: [00:23:38] I Wanted to dig in a little bit on being a dual citizen. And I think the first question I have is: Did you first realize that was something unique that you had coming up like Oh not everybody is a dual citizen. When was that.
Hannah Smith: [00:24:14] it’s a big deal. Yeah. I think that. The magnitude of that position Didn’t really hit me until then. I was here and started to see how much people go through when they dont have that. London because I wanted. Because I needed to not because I was running away from anything not because I was in any of the number of Challenging situations that most. Many people who immigrate are, whether that’s just a purely economic one or otherwise. Right. What a big deal. That is. No one’s gonna hassle me about being here in this life. It is Really a benefit because I’m a middle class white and educated so now and if I didn’t have a passport. A lot easier for me. A lot easier for me. Regardless of whether people know my my citizenship. I would say. So how difficult it is to not have that but nothing like the lived experience. A huge amount of the population they have.
Cabot Martin: [00:25:52] How little we can take for granted. In this country people give their lives every single day to be able to be here.
[00:26:04] And not just because they feel lucky but it’s a lack of option. There’s no severe threat. I was so scared saying goodbye to the. Little one the other night and I said to him you are safe and you are loved. Could started crying because you see all these people. Leads me to exalt you at the moment is the caravan thats coming. They’ve got kids this age and they’re not safe. They call stay where they are do that. They say they’re moving now safe if they come into this months. But imagine what that’s like as a pair. Don’t. Have control. And to be treated like a criminal. That’s a whole nother debate but yeah. Yeah but you’re asking me about when did I realize what a big deal it is to have citizenship. Not really until I was here. Before that it was a unique factoid to come in and out of the country because I’m also going an American possible run you know so. So I can go for a holiday anytime I like or you know. Yeah. Make it easier. Yeah. Easy.
Cabot Martin: [00:27:38] How often do you go home. Nowadays.
Hannah Smith: [00:27:40] At least once a year so far since I’ve been here.
Cabot Martin: [00:27:43] Is that do you still really enjoy that.
Hannah Smith: [00:27:46] Yeah. I love it and I miss my people when I say my people. I mean my English before I mean my girlfriend right. Family And friends and I’m forever grateful to technology 18 19 20 and living in the Caribbean. We didn’t have WhatsApp who got. A. Video from. And so this is. Something that is has more contact with other immigrants is that because we have technology. People Whose lives are still connected in a way that you couldn’t. Twenty years ago.
Cabot Martin: [00:28:51] When you go back like do you do you feel like being in America makes you look at your family and your friends differently?
Hannah Smith: [00:29:07] I would say yes. I think it does influence you being in a different cultural environment to how you. Experience people when you former. Cheer up. You mean it. Yeah. When I go to England and it gets going you know the weather’s is really shitty.
Cabot Martin: [00:29:37] I’m glad they’re back because we’re cheerful. That’s what makes me feel good about Harrisonburg.
Hannah Smith: [00:29:42] Well it’s interesting. What is our personal disposition and then we’ll watch to see. Or is that a cultural disposition. Right. In the environment. I mean I’ve before I long before I lived in America I would say hello to my neighbors and some of them that you know will get up and down the street in England and for some that would be a surprise for others. Often people who are from other parts of the world that’s not yet another human thing. Say hello. And then you could also say that that’s something that’s appealing about being here because people are more likely to say hello to someone they don’t know without thinking that they were mad or hitting on you. Yeah. So I do think it it lends some perspective. And interpersonally not being in London all of the time. Like the pace of life. The. Is more about this city living the pressure of of how hard you have to work in order to survive in a city.
Cabot Martin: [00:30:46] Did you feel that was there a lot of competitiveness. I’m sure also that university that’s a different. There’s not as much of that because people are in their jobs and they’re not fighting and paying all the money they have for rent .
Hannah Smith: [00:31:31] I think it depends only on the institution as well. And is a very good experience to teach at UVA Ave and to teach at JMU. Right. They’re very different institution. Yeah. So the experience of being that. The cost of living of being in the two places and types of students the expectations you know. Shoo position.
Todd Dubyk: [00:32:05] What are some of the ways that you’ve tried to retain your Britishness. Or have you found there are things that you do now or even more overt to demonstrate. I’m British. Like when we first came in you immediately basically offered us tea. But essential British. Are there other things you find yourself doing to really play that up?
Hannah Smith: [00:32:23] So I deliberately hand out tea because you’re coming to interview me. It’s quite normal that I would offer someone a cup of tea coffee on entry. Or maybe conversely American things that you’ve picked up right. You didn’t do before were you kind of adopted. That’s why I like this American style of doing. I know that my friends tease me on occasion for sounding a bit American or wearing a baseball cap. Well I. I would say probably there is some influence. From just being out of London could be partly being in America. Probably how I dress is probably a bit everyday just by what I see around me. My English accent is something that is pointed out here. And it is never obviously pointed out in England. And so I am made aware of my. You know I can find. And be insurable and speak to Rebecca and know that you know who I am because to remember my voice right for example or meet people a couple of times and they all yell at me and I say aliens is the accent that gives me away you know. The middle schools and the high schools in Harrisonburg in hard rocking County and Paige county other northern. One of the things that I noticed was that students would often say to me that they really love my accent. Implicitly what they were citing. Your accent is better than mine. Because people think that you’re small. You’ve got an English accent Yeah. Theres a huge assumption right which is correct in this make up especially your high school sentence yeah get Susie and I was I was teaching personal responsibility education sex ed right. So say hi boys. We can have sex today. So I have your attention.
Hannah Smith: [00:35:30] If those kids are saying your accent’s better than my. What they’re saying is that mines not good. Often that’s either country. Accent. Or Hispanic accents. There’s a whole hierarchy that. Around assumptions about intelligence assumptions about worthiness. Nina none of these kids ever said that explicitly but. That’s part of what was going on. I always made a point of. Saying thank you. I like your accent too. And I’d say I’ve got an accent. I say Yeah of course you’ve got an accent. You don’t notice it because everyone around you has the same exit right. No one in England ever comments about my accent ever. Isn’t it true that that’s right. And so. I made aware of my accent. Different kinds of ways I think. Different implicit meanings from different people in different environments. When I’m in New York no one ever comments about my Client. There’s so many. Yes. And there’s also. A wariness about highlighting difference because we’re all here. Making a go of it. Let’s not. Right. You know there are different though different implicit things happening in New York than they all here. I do I do things that are more in ritual but hold on to my Englishness.
Todd Dubyk: [00:37:07] Specific holidays that you make sure you celebrate.
Hannah Smith: [00:37:16] There may be some traditions. So for example my dad is coming from London for Christmas. So there are particular foods that we will make. And I will love that because that’s a food that is a is it is. Reminds me. Of being in London. Incidentally funding this is totally to the side but my mother in law late one evening when we’d all been socializing for a while. Talking about Thanksgiving and she asked. How did we celebrate Thanksgiving in England. I said that I made some jokes about the Pilgrims when you. Let me let me refresh myself. I mean a lot Thanksgiving so much I know what Thanksgiving is right then. That’s not something that was a tradition that my mom celebrated for example. So I did grow up even though she’s American and she would have grown up celebrating Thanksgiving that’s not something that she transposed to our life in England. Right. One thing that I am aware of is. So when I am in London I speak differently depending upon who I’m talking to. you adjust to different friendship groups or different types of peers or you know. So I do notice that when I am talking to different people in London I will use vocabulary and speak in ways that I’ve done speak to people here. And my husband and I have an ongoing joke that we don’t know what each other’s talking about half the time because what does that mean. And connected with other use that right. And can you tell when when you’re like. It’s just another part of communication is that the point of communication is that you’re understood. And so you know different ways of using language in different environments just like you want to talk to your.
Cabot Martin: [00:40:31] You said how people in New York don’t notice that as much maybe that’s like indicative of people in New York being more blind to color and being more hip to where people are from
Hannah Smith: [00:40:40] I don’t know. Neither is a blindness or just a the kind of attitude and a. Yeah. And you have to Ask a new Yorker you know about that. I just noticed that when I’m in her makeup and context like that no one ever mentions it. And it’s frequent here.
Todd Dubyk: [00:41:03] Yeah yeah. Here he is it’s still a novelty right for people to get in there. Whenever you’re the third guy. Yeah.
Cabot Martin: [00:41:10] Yes it is. Every day like how late if you talk to 10 new people like how many people will say something about your accent.
Hannah Smith: [00:41:19] A good percentage 80 percent said so
Cabot Martin: [00:41:29] This is. This is great. I feel like I am just totally learning what your story is great your perspective. What is something surprising about the immigration process that was surprising?
Hannah Smith: [00:42:14] Living straddling two places in terms of possessions. So I. I came here with a suitcase. Evolved it’s gotten a little vague about that too. . Number of years when I was first here. Have the things of my life that were meaningful to me. And so I have stuff at my mom’s and I Packed up and shipped a bunch of boxes. There’s something psychologically. When You know you’re making a job application in my life I want my certificate for my undergrad. Well that’s in London. Which file. Well I would ask my mom to try and find it. I was fortunate in that I had somewhere that I could still not stop. She wasn’t best pleased about it all the time. I did have some but I didn’t have my stock when it divested myself. So much at home. See all your stuff always was a strange experience because I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t live in England the game. I didn’t come here thinking that I would be Very open to that. My husband’s my husband as it happens is also a dual citizen American. I drove out. Okay so he’s never lived there but he has an Irish passport. And. Is this kind of strange. I hear enough to make it worse. You’ve been with this stuff Necessarily forever. Being away from my friends forever. Doesn’t make any sense to leave stuff there. You said that. That’s an interesting kind of struggling which I’m sure. Many people experience in different ways not just in terms of possessions but relationships. My feeling is that. If. You’re. A person as I am. Things are Meaningful to me because. The story that is attached to. Oh it’s really important that I have those records because each of those records I know where it came from. Yes or no. Who gave it to me. And what it. Because I’ve written it inside it. Oh. Oh that vase up there is really valuable because that’s given to me by a block that picture that was painted by my grandfather. You know like so so those that association with your history I suppose is what’s interesting about that question it’s not do you think. It’s not just do I have my winter jacket. It’s not just I really like that picture. It’s having having a history through things. Yeah. Meaningful and is around that gives you a continuity even though the environment is completely different. Think about people. My mom’s husband second. Husband was Sri Lankan. It was completely washed away in the tsunami. All of his photos his possessions everything that had that. His books everything that had. In theU.S. for his history he’s got. People who are losing their houses in the fires in California now will people who have who have who are in that caravan and had to flee they got everything in one backpack. Photos no gifts from somebody that was important because of the thing you know so I think that actually that’s incredibly. Meaningful to me and I’m sure. Difficult. Many to be not just separated geographically from what’s familia. From your life in.
Hannah Smith: [00:47:28] That little stool thing now oh my goodness in Brighton on the south coast of England that some Yard sale. Specific set of examples would be the. Right Thing. Oh yeah I remember that Saturday it was raining you know. Yeah yeah.
Cabot Martin: [00:47:50] I mean I haven’t even been alive for many years.!
Hannah Smith: [00:47:53] Is that right. I don’t know if you like it’s not just a testament to the fact that the things can last that long.
Cabot Martin: [00:48:09] Well this is so fantastic. I don’t have any great conclusions but thank you! Thank you.
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