POSC 371 Immigration Teach-In Fall 2018

Meet the Students!

(From left to right) Dr. Wylie (she/her), Nancy (she/they), Jack (he/him), Claire (she/her), Kathryn (she/her), and Liza (she/her), and created and hosted the Immigration Teach-In on Monday, November 5th 2018 as part of their community engagement project in Social Movements in the U.S. and Abroad (POSC 371). This page is a culmination of the work they produced!

Immigration and immigrants’ rights have always been a relevant topic around the world, due to the fact that migration is a human constant and human right, especially if a person is being persecuted by the nation they reside in. In an increasingly polarized society, the understanding of the cultural and legal implications of asylum-seekers, refugees, and immigrants has been forgotten and replaced with bias that dictates an understanding of the topics at hand. In order to bring awareness to various influential cases across the world, and locally, in the Harrisonburg community (which has a thriving immigrant and refugee population itself), students in James Madison University’s POSC 371 class (Social Movements in the U.S. and Abroad) held a Immigration Teach-In on November 5th, 2018, from 11am-3pm in the campus Student Success Center. The goal of the teach-in was to provide an informal location and space to raise consciousness among JMU students surrounding the national narrative on immigrants in the United States, look at case studies across the world for comparative purposes, and look at the national and local policy that affects millions of lives everyday.

 

EVENT SCHEDULE
WHEN WHAT WHO
11:00 am – 11:30 am Introduction

Community guideline overviews with review on inclusive language terms to use (undocumented person, not all Latinx people are Mexicans, not all undocumented people are Latinx)

 Dr. Kristin Wylie and Nancy Haugh
11:30 am -1:00 pm Tabling Portion

Table presentations on refugee crises in

  • Colombia
  • Eritrea
  • Germany
  • Jordan

Local policy review and discussion of national legislation (DACA, current status of acceptance of refugee acceptance/asylum seekers)

 Team members:

Jack Hales

Nancy Haugh

Claire Hietanen

Kathryn Walker

Liza Vanyan
12:45 pm -1:30 pm CWS Presentation

  • Discussion of the work CWS does in the Harrisonburg community
  • Description of the process for a typical refugee placement
  • Harrisonburg refugee history and demographics
  • Presentation of resources and volunteer opportunities
Church World Service (CWS) AmeriCorps Rep:

Kiley Machart
1:30 pm – 3:00 pm Tabling Portion Team members:

Jack Hales

Nancy Haugh

Claire Hietanen

Kathryn Walker

Liza Vanyan
2:45 pm – 3:00 pm Closure

Invitation to join the TPS Journey for Justice discussion in Madison Hall

 Team members
3:00 pm – 5:00 pm Temporary Protected Status (TPS) Table Talk in Madison Hall Local TPS chapter and the TPS Journey for Justice bus riders  

Explicit goals of day – By the end of the day . . .

  • Educate attendees about immigration policy and social movements in:
    •  Eritrea,
    •  Colombia,
    •  Germany,
    •  Jordan,
    •  The United States, and
    • Harrisonburg
  • Inform attendees about ways that they can get involved in the immigration rights movement in the Harrisonburg area
  • Participants will understand the role that they have in influencing the immigrants’ rights movement through such acts as voting, allyship, volunteering

 

Implicit goals of day – By the end of the day . . .

  • Engaging the JMU community and the larger Harrisonburg community over these ideas of immigration policy, movements, and framing in a positive and healthy way
  • Attempt to reframe the way people think about immigrants, specifically with the writing on the wall (“undocumented” versus “illegal”, etc.)
  • Attendees will recognize the similarities and differences between immigration policies and movements in the US and abroad
  • Attendees will achieve a better understanding of the immigrant community in Harrisonburg

 

Objectives of wall writings:

  • Inform attendees about the topics at each table
  • Explain any pertinent acronyms/terms
  • Provide general guidelines about inclusive language
  • Offer a space for people to interject their own ideas

 

Objectives of tabling portion:

  • Inform attendees about the immigration policies and movements in:
    •  Germany and Jordan,
    •  Colombia and Eritrea,
    •  The United States, and
    •  Harrisonburg
  • Engage attendees in impactful and interesting conversations/activities
    •  These will vary between tables, and activities will be used heavily at the US/Harrisonburg tables

 

Objectives of speaker portion:

  • Provide professional views on the current immigration policies/movements in the US as well as Harrisonburg
  • Expose attendees to avenues through which they could get involved with the two organizations represented
  • Showcase the barriers/circumstances of the lives of immigrants in Harrisonburg

 

Timing Process Who?
11:00-1:00 Tabling Portion – SSC 1075

·       Attendees can move freely through the room to the different tables we have set up and learn the information we’ve collected for them

·       Attendees can engage with our ideas on the walls, and add their own perspectives

 Group Members:

Jack Hales

Nancy Haugh

Liza Vanyan

Claire Hietanen

Kathryn Walker
1:00-2:00 Julio Reyes

·        Challenges of dealing with the immigration process – serious backlogs, expenses, and paperwork; no way to become a legal permanent resident if you become undocumented on your own

 Julio Reyes – Immigration Program Coordinator at New Bridges
2:00-3:00 Kiley Machart

·       Speak about the demographics of the refugee population in Harrisonburg

·       Give information about CWS and what they do

·       Talk about the process refugees go through before coming to Harrisonburg

·       Discuss refugee camps

 Kiley Machart – AmeriCorp Representative at Church World Service
3:00 Close-Out of Teach-In and Invitation to join us at the TPS Journey for Justice Information Meeting Jack Hales

The style of the Teach In as a World Cafe, as opposed to presenting on immigration in general as a lecture style, allowed us more room to engage our audience because the audience had to actively seek out the information we presented on by traveling to the tables. Additionally, being in SSC 1075 allowed us the opportunity to fully utilize the white boards present in the space. On these white boards, we were able to allow participants to write down questions they had about the presentations that we could answer at a later time, engage other participants in what they found to be the most impactful part of the presentations, reflect on what the word “immigrant” means to them, share where their family immigrated from, and see both resources as well as next step/action pieces for staying engaged with the subject after the event was over.

In terms of the topics we chose, we wanted to focus on both current events as well as issue-specific political opportunity structures that existed within our topics/countries that would lend themselves to meaningful discussion. For our country specific, comparative tables, this meant that we looked at Colombia specifically because of the relevance the Venezuelan migrant crisis lends to the topic of immigration; for Germany and Jordan, this was the Syrian refugee crisis and a desire to provide an academic discussion about immigration policy as a response; for Eritrea, this meant recognizing that the demographic of refugees in Harrisonburg includes a significant portion of Eritreans, thus making them a necessary component of local immigration policy; and for the U.S. policy table, this meant considering the migrant caravan and capitalizing off of the conversation the caravan garnered. As a result, we were able to look at these opportunity structures and realize that talking about these countries and policies specifically would be most in line with our learning objectives for the event.

 

During the Teach-In, we provided resources for our participants and would like to extend these resources to our website viewers. These opportunities are locally based in the Harrisonburg community and Shenandoah Valley. The local Congressional representative is Ben Cline (R) – 6th District; Senators Tim Kaine (D) and Mark Warner (D).

You can utilize the US Capitol switchboard by calling (202) 224-3121 and requesting to speak with the desired representative and Senator. If you’re uncomfortable making phone calls, you can text ResistBot at 50409 with the message “RESIST” and they will let you text a message to your representative. 

Church World Service, CWS, offers plentiful volunteer opportunities for anyone looking to assist the refugee community or to facilitate their transition of movement into the Harrisonburg community. Driving families, cultural orientation class assistance, childcare, office volunteering, and donations (clothes, toys, furniture, and food) are just a few of the options offered. You can go to their website, here.   

NewBridges Immigrant Resource Center (NBBIRC) is located in Downtown Harrisonburg between Beyond and Cuban Burger. The Center assists immigrants in the community with their USCIS paperwork along with other documentation, and helps ease the process of adjusting status’ (TPS, DACA, work authorization, citizenship). NBBIRC connects immigrants to social services they seek such as health and hospital bill forgiveness and community resources.

If you are looking to get involved on campus and raise volunteerism and activism on campus check out the following groups!:

  • JMU Latino Student Alliance (LSA)
  • JMU African Student Organization (ASO)
  • JMU Women of Color (WoC)
  • JMU Students for Minority Outreach (SMO)
  • JMU Center for Multicultural Student Services (CMSS Madison Union 207)

Immigration & Refugees in the Shenandoah Valley/Harrisonburg

Immigrant Harrisonburg Presentation Overview

Eritrea and Colombia Table Presentation

Germany Table Video Presentation

Jordan Table Video Presentation

In-Class Issue Update Presentation

Interview with Madiha Patel

Interview with Madiha Patel

by John Kinney and Raven Archer

Discussing issues of cultural dissonance, civil instability, Muslim treatment after 9/11 etc., Madiha Patel shares her experiences during and after her transition from Pakistan to the United States at age 12 – conducted by John Kinney and Raven Archer

Interview Summary and Analysis
Madiha Habeeb Patel
The overall immigration platform has come a long way in terms of attitudes, reception, border policies and perceptions. Owing to the increasingly popular cultural diversity, and cultural competence engendered by globalization, the United States natives and systems are becoming more accommodating of other cultures. Further, people are moving away from the overt racism setup that discriminated upon and disregarded immigrant’s races. Things are looking up as border policies and life chances are becoming better. In Harrisonburg, where the immigrants make up 9.7 percent of the population, respectively 33.6 percent are naturalized and 12.5 percent and employed (New American Economy 1). This paper analyses an interview conducted on one such immigrant, Madiha Habeeb Patel; whose transition from Pakistani to American citizenship has been commendable. This paper seeks to explore some of the social, economic, and labor factors that have been vital to the settling in of the immigrant families. It also looks at the assimilation process that Madiha Patel went through and the changes in perceptions of immigration throughout her transition; such experiences that paved the way for second generation immigrants like her 4 daughters and also shaping sentiments among the welcoming Americans. Lastly, the paper explores the changing attitudes between the two communities involved, to understand the assimilation barriers involved in the process. While some Americans still have problems with immigrants, most do not harbor any ill – will against them. In fact, some feel that immigration is a plus for the country as it expounds the labor market and the United States economy in general. This interview also seeks to establish that, poor economic opportunities underly most of these movements as most skilled immigrants flee unemployment, and poor wage jobs in their countries to better-paying jobs in United States. The attitudes of the people in the receiving country, as well as racial relations, affect integration and come in handy when cultivating a willingness to become American.

Migration
The actual immigration process for Habeeb Patel was almost a dream come true for any kid in a war-torn country like Pakistan. Habeeb Patel moved to America in 1998 in the company of her parents and her siblings. The main reason behind their fleeing their home country of Pakistan, was the civil instability in their hometown of Karachi. The political instability was a source of insecurity, and only a small percentage of Pakistani natives who were financially capable, were able to escape to the United States to secure their futures. An added advantage that aligned with their movement goals was that the family was sponsored by her grandparents and did not have to apply for asylum or come as illegal immigrants in the United States. This sums up some of the push factors in the home countries that forced people to relocate to the United States. It also supports the idea that Africa, Asia, and Latin America have been the biggest sources of the United States and Europe based immigrants.
The fact that Madiha already had family who were already living in the United States indicates some of the immigration trends that have existed for many years. Although sponsored by her grandparents, her aunt accommodated them for almost 3 months until they could move to their own apartment comfortably. As long as they were on sponsorship, they were legal and had the freedom to seek education and employment in the United States. Her argument that the parents were able to get on their feet and find their employment provides the evidence that at that time, the United States policies of ethnic distinctiveness and third-rate treatment of immigrants were fading away. From her attitude and confident tone, we learn that the systems instilled confidence in them because they were fair to all the immigrants. For instance, she says that her father did not take long to land a good paying job which enabled him to provide for his family. Overall, the social and economic integration framework accommodated immigrants at that time.
Several factors came into play when it came to Madiha Patel. To start with, Pakistan was unstable and crime-ridden at that particular time so people had to flee the country and seek asylum elsewhere. Another economic factor that came into play was the high unemployment rates as well as the low-income earner jobs. Despite college education, the job opportunities were still limited, and the parents had to look for a country that could absorb them even for the limited wage scenario. The scenario is actually quite desperate in Karachi as there was little to no room for advancement or even improvement in the future. As she said, her dad was still supporting family back at home even after years of being in America. This situation reflects that the prevailing economic scenario in the developing countries is still unfavorable for many citizens.
The factors, on part of the United States, was the chronic and the dire need for low wage rate employment. Being a world class economy comprised of manufacturing and practical related work, it had a large number of opportunities for employment for immigrants, whether documented or not. According to Massey, “employers wanted employees who viewed bottom-level jobs as means of making ends meet other than the source of prestige” (39). The interview confirms the recent statistics of the United States Economic and employment sector. As of 2012, 12.5 percent of the immigrant population of Harrisonburg was in the employed forced labor (Flum 1). The United States values the immigrants with technical specialty especially in mathematics, technology and sciences and for that, these immigrants scoop key positions in the manufacturing, transport, and other technology sectors for an above average wage.
Several resources, social ties and legal procedures came in handy towards boosting the application and the acceptance of such naturalization status. As concerns the law, Pakistan had kept very commendable standards when it came to complying with the international immigration policies. Because of that, it was fairly easy for Habeeb Patel and her family to navigate to the United States. Furthermore, the regulations were fair and did not discriminate against people based on policies. They also favored the immigrants and increased the acceptance chances for her. On the social scene, the family survived due to its connections with relatives here in America. Without such support, the process of settling down and navigating across the country would have been much more difficult for Habeeb Patel and her family. Additionally, the training and the financial support received from her grandparents and aunt as sponsors came in handy when getting settled in.

Integration
In regards to fitting in, the economic and the social front were quite favorable to Habeeb Patel. It appeared that it was quite easy for her to assimilate into the economic culture of the United States. The interview indicates that she came to the states as a minor and started middle school in Ellicott City, Maryland. The fact that the application for citizenship was successful proves that the system in the United States was more open for the skilled labor that came from these immigrants. The economic climate favored immigrants too as it offered everyone an almost equal chance of getting into a good school based on academic merit, as well as an employment opportunity thereafter. Her Indian husband was admitted to medical school, and even after graduating, it was possible for him to get employment in most parts of the south. This means that the economic situation allowed for the vertical mobility of the skilled immigrant labor. As for her, she had an opportunity to acquire a job even without training. This proves that the labor system was accommodating and gave people from outside of the United States a chance to practice and be better at the particular job.
Additionally, Madiha’s children grew up experiencing assimilation differently, being second generation immigrants. Particularly looking at cultural assimilation and demonstration, Patel explains her oldest daughter as being very in tune to her Pakistani culture while still also noticing an amount of assimilation. Patel states, “Once I moved here just the adapting and then just having the culture shock of how everything different it was not like, nobody told me that it would be so difficult and that it would take forever kind of to get used to.” In a sense, Patel paved the way for her daughters to be able to be express their Pakistani culture while also claiming their American identity. “You know like in fact my daughter it was just so funny she came down in a Pakistani outfit like the traditional outfit and that’s how she went where I was fighting to not choose to wear that and she is so comfortable and proud of it and she wanted to wear that and it was just so interesting for me to process that you know the confidence that she had to present or to express her culture and yet I was having such a I was kind of ashamed of it.” Like to the TEDTalk with Aziz Ansari, we see this idea of immigrant parents facing difficulties that their American born children may not experience, or experience differently.
Lastly, the entry into institutions like schools and social groups seemed structural and civic, as there appeared to be no power struggles in play. Overall, this segment proves that both the immigrants and the host are adopting a new perspective when it comes to assimilation. The visitors are more enthusiastic and determined to attend schools and compete for the top-notch job positions. This fact proves that the system and the attitudes foster self-determination and confidence among the people.
In regard to reception and social integration, every area felt like home right away. In the interview, Habeeb Patel states that her peers and the teachers at the schools were extremely kind and supportive of her endeavors. Even though a few people victimized her Muslim status following the 9/11 attack of the United States, it appears overall, the reception was warm and inviting. Even after moving from Maryland to Harrisonburg where the cuisine, customs and the routines slightly differed, she adopted and made friends. This segment cites that American’s attitudes towards these problems were changing and becoming more accepting. Never once did she ever feel rejected or the need to move back to her homeland.
In regard to the relationship with other people, Habeeb Patel blended in because she had shed the aspect of ethnic distinctiveness. That is why she had no trouble marrying an Indian immigrant; as she stated in the interview, Indian and Pakistani cultures differ. However, even though their cultures and norms differed a great deal, they found common ground for their children because, at that point, their personal cultures were not a factor anymore. She says that even though they valued the languages, customs and traditions of their original cultures, they have moved from many of them and are now focusing on building an American home for their children. The attitudes of such individuals towards the American culture are positive. Her situation indicates emotional maturity seeing as she can identify with both cultures with time. More importantly, her willingness to associate with the American people is evident, as her interest was to live in a city whose housing system allows for proximity between members. This aspect proves that she has already established a sense of identity in the new setting.

Experiences
Learning the English language was also fairly easy for her seeing as she was enthusiastic to do so. She says that she had an advantage of attending an international school in Karachi where she had the opportunity to learn basic English. When she arrived in Maryland and started school, she took ESL classes and familiarized herself with the language and its basic requirements. However, she went out of her way to listen to the lyrics and sing along with American music CDs to become fluent. More interestingly, her pace of picking up English was much better when compared to that of her parents seeing as her generation was characterized by intense schooling and exposure to online and media platforms which sped up the learning process. In the interview, she says that her parents are still not as confident or strong in the language as she is. However, her fluency and prowess in the subject are impressive. This overwhelming difference between the prowess marks the separation of generations. Prior to the 2000s, the learning of such language was not as vigorous as it is in the information era.
On the other hand, her experience in school was pleasant. Even though she experienced some culture shock, she learned at the same time. The styles, preferences, and norms differed on every level and while she did experience culture shock she eventually became comfortable with the environment. Some of the culture shock she experienced was the dating relationships. In America teens dating in high school for fun was a normal occurrence, but in the Pakistani culture, it was not something that was done. Another area in which she experienced culture shock was clothing. The clothing styles were very different in the United States than in Pakistan. In Pakistan, the outfit of choice was the shalwar kameez while the Americans preferred casual body-hugging attire like jeans. However, this posed much more of a problem for her father than it did her.
As for the social and political assimilation, the American systems were fairly welcoming to these immigrants. Habeeb Patel gives a detailed chronology of the events that led to her full citizenship status. First, they scored an immigration slot thanks to the sponsorship program. After completing the required years, her parents applied for naturalization status, passed the test and became citizens. Habeeb Patel became a citizen by virtue of being a child of naturalized parents. This process reveals that during that time, the boarders were generally willing to absorb any individual who qualifies for the naturalization status legally; versus the now restricting immigration policies.

Membership
Madiha Patel’s attitudes towards United States citizenship were a bit unclear at the start, but nine years later, it is evidently positive. Leading to the end of the transitional process she confesses that she could not have been more proud of her United States nationality. She naturalized after her parents took and passed the naturalization examination. From there, she went through the assimilation procedure until she internalized the values shared by any American – born citizen. Even though she was not born in the United States, she feels as comfortable with the American culture as she does the Pakistani. Indeed, she says that lately, she rarely goes back to Pakistan as she misses her family back home. To her, America is home. These feelings could only come from a person who fought hard to be where they are. From her high spirits and her affinity to America, one can conclude that she feels American as opposed to being foreign. Even her attitude throughout the culture shock phases and the occultation was admirable and positive. For instance, post 9/11 when everybody sneered at her for being a Muslim, she kept the attitude that stress and grief pushed the people to such lengths of being awful. With time, she discovered and appreciated the diversity in the United States, found her footing, and fit in like any other American.
Many of her relatives are fortunate to be living in the United States so she feels no obligation to go back to Pakistan. Although her uncle, his wife and children still live in Pakistan, there are many factors at play that hinder her from returning, including financial restrictions and a decreasing desire to go back. She says that her father sends money to her uncle and aunt in Pakistan but that is as far as it goes. She does, however, donate to a charity in Pakistan that performs philanthropic work. One can conclude that the determination that she has towards remaining in America and failing to visit her home is a direct source of being a proud American citizen (Massey 40). As long as one feels at home, there is nowhere else to feel at home other than America.
Madiha Patel appreciates the fact that she has two cultures that she can identify with. She also feels proud to be a member of the American social, economic, and political society. Even though she still upholds the Pakistani values, she finds a way to balance them with the American ones. She also confesses that the social system has adapted her; as it has introduced new delicacies which cater to the vastly diverse population of Harrisonburg.
Conclusion
The immigration scenario in the United States is taking a new shape. As opposed to earlier times where the immigrants were third-rate and took only the slave job positions, the scenario is changing by the day. The interview of the Pakistani immigrant, Madiha Patel, concludes that immigrants are an integral part of the United States economy, which can be seen by the natives help with assimilation. Also, when it comes to ethnic distinctiveness in all the spheres of operation in the United States, most people value it less. Madiha Patel’s narration proves that the pull and push factors, based on the segmented labor market theory of economic assimilation because the recipient country, is in dire need of skilled immigrants from these low wage countries. The interview also indicates that the assimilation zone is swiftly changing, as different cultures are moving towards integration and diversification. The attitudes of the natives towards the newcomers and vice versa are improving. Immigrants are determined to overcome the cultural barriers like culture shock and assimilation blocks and are quick to learn English and find lucrative jobs, just like their American – born counterparts. When all is said and done, she feels American and accepts her naturalized citizenship. Patel succeeded in her acquisition of American citizenship because factors of economic integration, attitudes, as well as reception were paramount towards engendering a naturalized citizenship in Madiha Patel.

Works Cited
New American Economy. New Americans in the Harrisonburg MSA; A snapshot of the Demographic and the Economic Contribution of Immigrants in Rockingham County, the Harrisonburg Metro Area. 5 April 2012. 28 November 2018 .
Flum, Alex. Chris Jones and Sal Romero Jr. win Harrisonburg City Council seats. 6 November 2018. 28 November 2018 .
Massey, Douglas. “Why does immigration occur? A Theoretical synthesis – a chapter in the book, the Handbook of international migration: the American experience.” Hirschman, Charles and Philip Kasinitz. Handbook of International Migration, The: The American Experience. New York: Russell Sage Foundation, 1999. 35-45.

SOCI 318
John Kinney
Raven Archer

Interview Project
“Immigrant Harrisonburg”

Raven: Okay, so we just want to start with the beginning but before that can you just state your name for the record?
Patel: Yes. My name is Madiha Patel
Raven: Ok and where are you from?
Patel: I was born in Pakistan
Raven: Ok and when did you immigrant over
Patel: I immigrated in 98. 1998
Raven: OK And what were the reasons for your immigration
Patel: Two main reasons. One being the civil instability taking place in Karachi where I lived and the other reason was my parents were being sponsored by my maternal grandparents so it was just an incentive to kind of escape the civil instability and then move here
John: How did people treat you here
Patel: Really well. Well at least initially. The people would then. So I moved to Ellicott City, Maryland and I was 12? 11, 12. So I started middle school here so my peers were very kind, very inclusive and welcoming. So I had a very good experience transitioning here at that age.
John: Did you have any like major culture shock?
Patel: Yes I did. Oh my gosh um the idea of dating. that was yeah just the fact that people dated in school or just dated for leisure. The idea Um yeah I come from a very or at least back in Karachi, Pakistan around that time, dating was not a thing marriages were arranged. Occasionally people would like you know people would like each other but that was just not a thing so dating was a huge thing. Clothing was a huge culture shock. Food was a huge culture shock so yeah I was very shocked all around.
Raven: Were there any ways in which you would say you assimilated and your parents kind of, not stuck their nose up, but it was just strange to them?
Patel: Oh absolutely, there was a huge push back from my parents because if I wanted to wear certain clothing to them it was me alienating my culture that I was born in so I’ll give you an example. So the traditional dress in Pakistan is called shalwar kameez and my dad insisted that I would go to school in shalwar kameez. I didn’t want to wear that, I wanted to wear a pair of jeans and a pair of shirt. So my dad one morning he was really upset about it and he was insisting for me to wear a shalwar kameez so I kind of challenged him and said Ok fine if you wear a shalwar kameez, because there is a male version and a female version. I challenged him that if you wear the male version of the shalwar kameez to work I would wear the female version of shalwar kameez to school and that didn’t go to well. But It definitely ended there. You know I got grounded and got punished but he didn’t force me to wear it to school so yeah.
John: Who do you identify more with? Like Which Identity?
Patel: Oh my God. Identity to begin with is such so complicated and so difficult and then to have have you know half of my life, back in the day at least. Having my foundation years happen in Pakistan and then to move here and having the second half of my foundation, foundational years to take place here it was very challenging. I definitely I think it just depends depending on my environment so if I’m going to if I’m visiting Pakistan then I can immediately kind of click into it and feel like aww yes. The clothing I’m inclined to wear the traditional clothing and stuff but um it’s just I can identify with both identities my Pakistani identity as well as my American identity but then at the same time it’s never a hundred percent. You belong but you don’t belong it’s this strange space I’m constantly in yeah so
Raven: So how do you navigate that? Like do you have friends from back home and then friends here or do you have like a Pakistani community here that you’ve like identified with or found in Harrisonburg
Patel: So I’ve tried to … I’ve tried to kind of stay in touch with some of the friends from back in Pakistan but I think out of like 30 of them I’m only in touch with one or two and even that it is more of like a Facebook relationship like Oh Ok that’s great you know this is what you’re doing these days but I think all of my friendships are my close friendships and my acquaintances are all in the US and then yeah I definitely have friends that are Pakistani have Pakistani backgrounds and then I also have friends that don’t have any Pakistani roots or anything so
Raven: So how often do you visit?
Patel: It’s been a while I haven’t been back for 13 years yeah
Raven: Wow, so What’s the reason
Patel: I think, there’s lots of reasons. One reason, okay I’ll list it off. Not laziness but just hesitance I think that’s the right term. Most of my all of my family and extended relatives are here so my uncles and aunts from both my mom’s side and my dad’s side are here with the exception of one my paternal uncles he still lives in Karachi Pakistan but as much as I want to go back just the idea of going back into that environment um it’s not scary I’m just hesitant to do it and because I have a choice I choose not to to some extent. I will say this I did about 4 years ago my grandfather, my paternal grandfather was still alive who I used to be very close to. I wanted to visit him and he got really sick and passed away immediately while I was traveling to a different part of the world. When I got back I wanted to go back to Pakistan and kind of pay my respects to him but again there was political instability that was taking place in that area that I belong to so you know my dad immediately put his foot down “you can’t go it’s very dangerous people are being abducted” they were going after specific types of people and I kind of fell into that group of people so my dad was like “do not take that risk” because I have young children so there thing is like you don’t need to right now so that was the last time I really tried. I’d bought my ticket and everything so I couldn’t go then. Since then I just haven’t.
Raven: Wow so you mentioned you have kids
Patel: Yes
Raven: Wow How many
Patel: I have four girls
Raven: Wow and do you see the difference between them and yourself in regard to like your culture and stuff like what they have picked up on and what they haven’t, and stuff like that.
Patel: Absolutely well they love they love the Pakistani and Indian cause the Indian and Pakistani culture is very similar it intersects. They love the clothing they love the food they love the music, the entertainment. The cultural norms traditions when they hear it they are like “what do you mean that just doesn’t make sense why would you do that” I’m like “I don’t know that’s why we don’t value those kind of traditions” and we’ve kind of like moved away from those kind of traditions and norms in my household. But those like food, clothing and music is something that they’ve like grasped and they like hold onto tight. You know like in fact my daughter it was just so funny she came down in a Pakistani outfit like the traditional outfit and that’s how she went where I was fighting to not choose to wear that and she is so comfortable and proud of it and she wanted to wear that and it was just so interesting for me to process that you know the confidence that she had to present or to express her culture and yet I was having such a I was kind of ashamed of it which was I don’t know it made me think so I’m still processing that
Raven: So what was the immigration process like? Like Coming over here. You said you went to Maryland first?
Patel: Yes we moved to Maryland first. It was fairly easy. We did not have much issues because the regulations were not that strict I think it was our laws and our country I think was much more welcoming not as biased I guess in terms of what where the immigrants were coming from so it was a fairly simple. I mean you apply you know you get a response by a certain amount of years then you come you have to make sure you stay here for that period of time then after that you apply once you’ve had your green card for a certain amount of time you apply for citizenship, citizenship date comes if you are I think above 18 you have to take the exam and anybody that is below 18 doesn’t have to take the exam because it’s automatic citizenship from your parents so I didn’t have to take the exam my parents did. They passed and then and so we became naturalized citizens I think that was, It’s been awhile
Raven: So I know you said that it was a rough like political climate in Pakistan when you left so did you what was your status when you came here was it asylee
Patel: No we did not it worked out because we had that sponsorship from my grandparents we didn’t have to apply for asylum or we didn’t have to run for our lives so
John: How much family would you say you left behind
Patel: In terms of like immediate relationships just my paternal uncle, his wife and three children the one’s that I felt the most close to or had a very strong relationship with
John: Was it hard
Patel: Yeah you know my aunt and my uncle they raised me because I lived in a joint family system so it was like three families, my grandparents, my uncle and aunt, their family and then our family in one household so I mean we did everything together like that was your social circle so it was I missed them a lot when I moved here initially and then I guess with time you just kind of move on
Raven: So how did you end up in Harrisonburg? Like from Maryland. Why Harrisonburg?
Patel: I don’t know! Man, that is exactly what I asked my husband. So once my husband finished his training. As he was finishing his training. He is a physician by career or profession and he was just finishing up his residency we had decided like Yes we are going to move out to the west coast it’s a different vibe it’s you know more of our kind of feel and then when you’re applying for jobs of course you’re not going to apply to one job so he just kind of applied to everywhere and Harrisonburg was one of the places that popped up and he just applied he wasn’t serious about it but then when he they offered him a position. And just the position they offered him with the benefits it was just one of those things a no brainer. When you’re coming out of training and med school after that long as students you take what you can you know and like I said it was the benefits that really kind of won us over so that’s why Harrisonburg
John: If you could tell your past self anything regarding immigration and going through what would you tell you
Patel: Like the process or just the post immigration sort of experience
John: Post
Patel: I think like I said so kind of I never felt unwelcomed by my peers or my cohorts or even my teachers and everything in fact I felt they were very supportive. It could have maybe had something to do with the fact that where I settled. Like I said I settled in Ellicott City and it’s a very diverse area so yeah it was pretty good I think not until high school especially after 9/11. I think everybody will echo that like 9/11 changed everybody’s life across the board. And then especially it changed my life because belonging to the group that was kind of blamed for the whole event kind of like blindsided me. It really impacted me because people that otherwise were good friends of mine kind of like created this distance from me and I was only like 9th I was in 10th grade when that happened so you know my peers were kind of like my relationships with certain peers changed I started hearing like really rude and nasty comments about it and then there was definitely a lot of verbal statements that would be made that would just again were just very nasty by people that I never would have thought both those who I knew and those who were random strangers like walking down the street and it was very difficult to process that because I personally lived by this motto that you don’t blame a large group for somebody else’s doing and I so I had a very challenging time but I can see how you need somebody and something to blame kind of like maybe it is part of the grieving process or, not healing process, but definitely grieving process we need something to blame and that’s why so many people kind of went that route.
Raven: Alright so let’s talk about Harrisonburg. Do you like it?
Patel: Now I do. So I’ve been here for 9 years yeah So I’ll tell you the context right when I moved from Karachi to Baltimore, the suburbs of Baltimore which is Ellicott City. You guys have been to Brooklyn, I understand like how populated it is in just like the kind of set up of the city is that’s like where I grew up essentially so like Karachi in Pakistan is like the Brooklyn of the United States. So moving from there to like the suburbs in Ellicott City was just like “What! What do you mean the people aren’t walking around?” Because like the city never shut down right other than when the instability started happening and we started having curfews and it would get quiet in the evening hours but it was always lively so to that to Baltimore it was like a culture shock and finally when I got used to it then I had gotten married and then I moved to Harrisonburg which was another culture shock Like what “There is nobody on the road at like 5 pm” Now it’s different and because I live closer to campus it’s different but so initially I didn’t like it only because I was used to living into populated and densely populated cities coming here where you just had lack of uh the cuisine was lacking in diversity I mean the shopping was lacking and then just in general I was not feeling it was the best way to put it. But I think once as my children were getting older and they went to school I made new friends you know through other with other children’s parents so it started growing on me just because I finally had but its just yeah there’s not enough spaces in Harrisonburg at least when I moved here where you can go and meet people so that kind of hindered me Harrisonburg growing on me but once I started meeting people and nine years later like I can not imagine moving out of here it’s home
Raven: So would you say that Harrisonburg has like adapted since you first got here? Like Are there more restaurants that are like inclusive for you or places for like shopping that you feel like you can go to now
Patel: Oh yeah definitely I mean it’s grown immensely in terms of diversity and then this whole initiative to kind of bring the life back into downtown has really helped with that and it also really helps the fact that you have CWS, are you guys familiar that organization, so people are genuinely kind of in support of that so I kind of lost my thought. It’s definitely much more inclusive you have so many restaurants that are popping up that are more fusion based so they’re introducing several different types of cuisines it just seems much more friendlier and there’s like I said there’s spaces where I go and I feel comfortable being there and enjoying myself. Does that answer the question?
Raven: It does I’m glad that it’s great
John: Is it anything like you’d expected?
Patel: The city or the
John: Yeah or just America in general
Patel: Just America in general. That’s a loaded question
Raven: Did you have an idea of what America would be like when you got here then it was like this is not what I thought.
Patel: So I used to like I mentioned most of my mom’s side family had completely moved here before I moved here so we would visit occasionally you know to me there is so much hype around going to America and like it is so cool you know like the McDonald’s and like the Toys R Us. It was just so appealing and I couldn’t wait to move here because my life was going to change drastically like it was going to be cool I get to be the cool kid on the block in that sense at least in my cohort or at least in my peers in my environment back home. But once I moved here just the adapting and then just having the culture shock of how everything different it was not like, nobody told me that it would be so difficult and that it would take forever kind of to get used to.
Raven: So what are your relations like back to Pakistan? Like do you send money back to your family or do you
Patel: I don’t I definitely, there is an organization there that I feel very that I love dearly for what it stands for and I know its foundation and I’ve always I was exposed to that organization since I was like a toddler like once I could understand things I knew about this organization and I knew the guy who ran the organization he was like very approachable guy on the street kind of deal. He has done some amazing work he’s passed away since then. So that’s one organization it’s called the Edhi Foundation they would have issues over there like babies being abandoned or women being battered or children being abused and assaulted so this guy him and his wife would literally just go around the streets kind of like gathering people and providing that shelter and working in that shelter and working in their organization so they were very transparent with the work they did
So that’s one organization that I try to support as much as possible just because I know how transparent they are with how they expend their funds with what they are doing. That’s about it. I know my parents financially support my uncle and aunt there to some extent because just the job market is very terrible over there is a huge gap, income gap, you have your very you have poverty you don’t really have a middle class and that gap has just been widening until you know you have your elite and then you have your impoverished and then there is like a very small group that would be considered the middle class
John: What have been some of your favorite foods since moving here? Like new foods
Patel: Oh man I have so many but have you guys heard of samosas so it’s like those like puff not puff pastries. It’s like this really thin flat bread like very thin and then you put whatever stuffing you want and the most famous stuffing is like spiced potatoes like spiced mashed potatoes or like minced meat so you like wrap it up in a triangle and then you fry it. Those oh my God I could eat them all day. Biryani that’s like you have whatever choice of meats and then you like cook in this stew thick stew and then you have like parboiled rice and you kind of make those two things separately and then you put them together then you steam it together and its just oh my gosh it’s just beautiful another one of my favorite dishes again I could just eat it all day long. I have a lot but if I had to be stranded on an Island those are the two things I would like take with me.
John: Do you remember anything special about the trip itself over here?
Patel: Oh man That’s a great question. No I just remember being excited and I couldn’t wait to get here but I can’t I don’t have any images in my head of like the plane ride or anything, no. That’s crazy. I can’t you know I haven’t thought about it in years and now that you’ve brought it up I can’t even think of anything. I think the only plane ride I remember coming from Pakistan to the United States was my last time that I had visited back in 2006 no 5, 2005 that’s when I was, last time there and I just remember, I hated it and I couldn’t wait to get back home. I was..so when we would travel back when we would visit Pakistan we would go for the whole summer so you’d go from like school’s closed from June to like August so you’re spending your whole summer there. Initially it was fun but as I got older I did not want to be away from home that long. So that’s one plane ride I do remember It was the most turbulent plane ride. Over the Atlantic is never fun but it was so turbulent that everybody’s food had fallen off and people had gotten their clothes dirty so that’s the one I remember and I was like “I don’t want to get on that plane again”. So yeah.
Raven: So do you remember like what happened when you got here? You just moved in with your family that was here? And then how long did you stay with them until you guys kind of separated
Patel: Exactly so actually when I moved here to Maryland my mom’s sister was the one who kind of supported us. Initially when we moved in my dad was out looking for jobs every single day. He was lucky and blessed in a sense that he was able to find a job right away. As soon as I think we stayed with my aunt for about 2 to 2 ½ months. Both of my parents were very motivated to like we want to be on their own. We don’t want to have, excuse me, this um not only like not be a burden on anybody also not like so anybody would ever say that, “oh we did you a favor” kind of a deal. You know like you only welcome for so long.
Raven: like indebted to
Patel: Exactly even if it’s family it’s just people will only tolerate you for so long. Yeah we moved there we stayed with them for 2 ½ – 3 months then we moved out into our own apartment. And yeah
John: Do you remember your first friend?
Patel: Oh my gosh it was these three girls, Sajel, Ima and Michelle. They were just they introduced me to pop music and bought me my first CD to Backstreet Boys which I loved and worshipped. It was just so awesome. They kind of like helped me like figure out and navigate things “This is what you do, this is what you don’t do” so it was really nice. They would always save a spot for me at lunch and make sure I was just kind of getting situated into my new environment really well. So yeah they were awesome yeah. I’m kind of in touch with them but I keep telling myself that I need to make a genuine effort and like, write a personal letter and kind of like “Hey how’s life you by the way you were such a, you played such an important role in helping me transition into this new environment. And yeah
Raven: What do you think the transition would have been like if you didn’t have like friends that like kind of gravitated towards you from the beginning
Patel: Oh I’m sure it would have been horrible I mean it was so difficult to begin with right even when you have that help it so difficult to get used to the food even the water taste different right like everything taste different it’s hard to sleep Every you notice and observe every single thing that’s around you so If I would not have had those individuals from teachers to certain friends that I made I think I would have had definitely much of a more challenging time and I know it sounds funny to call it trauma but there’s definitely some sort, to some extent, there’s trauma involved that takes a very long time for you to heal from because of not only the cultural difference but like even ideologies and just the way people approach things and practice you know basic etiquette it’s different. You know so yeah
John: Any problems from like learning the language or before
Patel: Um a little bit. So when the kind of school I went to a private school in Karachi Pakistan and it was a British based system so you were taught English and you had to like speak and do everything in English so it gave me that introduction sort of right but then at the same time when I was going home I wasn’t speaking in English I was speaking in Urdu and then another like a not a tribal language but like a specific area where my grandparents had immigrated from so like a couple of generations we were all immigrants in that sense but so I was not doing that English primarily but once I moved here the ESL classes helped a lot back in the day they used to be called ESOL or something or at least in Maryland. So they helped but it’s still one thing learning it and just getting really used to it right because you have to learn to think in English and comprehend in English and like navigate in English so it took a while there were definitely times where even like so like the Backstreet Boys CD that actually really helped for me it used to come with the lyrics so I would play it and just read it and learn it you kind of mimic it right and you practice it that way so that was very helpful it took a while but I got it and that program helped and yeah everybody did their part in kind of like
Raven: Do you think you had a easier time learning than like your parents?
Patel: So my parents my dad did not have too difficult of a time other than just like the cultural parts of communicating in English right like certain things imply certain things right like there’s literal meaning and then there’s like what’s implied when you say something like that so he definitely had a challenging time but I think he’s learned to we all learned together My mom had very low confidence in communicating with it until this day. She’ll, she understands it like the basic communication she understands it and then she’ll communicate like with my children right so she’ll communicate with her grandkids in it but again it’s very basic but when it comes to like being outside and like really taking it she won’t communicate it because of just this she’s conscience about it she’s very self-conscience about it that people will think that what she is saying is not going to make sense and that it is somehow its going to be like aww that poor woman that kind of thing so she avoids situations where she has to put in that position to communicate in English.
John: Was there ever any other like any other country considered for the immigration do you know of that
Patel: No I don’t think we would have moved well I don’t know how bad it would have gotten for my dad right, at that point for him to stay but I don’t think at that point my parents were considering moving to another country they were considering moving to another part of the city which my grandparents were not in favor of at all and if just the way the cultural or the traditions are that you listen it’s like you listen to what your elders say so I think that’s one of the reasons my parents my dad didn’t push it with my grandparents and his thing was well okay we’re going to move out of the country that way my children have better opportunities and we can avoid we can get away from this political instability which was impacting them too but they were able to move past it especially my grandparents because they had already experienced it and they were kind of immune to the instability when they were living in India before Pakistan was created because Pakistan used to be part of India and then in 1947 they separated that’s when my grandparents immigrated to Pakistan because they were dealing with discrimination religious discrimination so
John: You ever wonder how it might be if you hadn’t immigrated?
Patel: Oh man I don’t know I mean I guess I can guess I wouldn’t have had the opportunities that I’ve had here and because I think back there I would have to access certain things or to fight for my rights within internally you know like whether it’s like I think my parents I don’t have a doubt in my mind that my parents would not have allowed me to go to college or anything but like to work in certain areas or be in certain industries have a career in certain industries I would have to fight that not only with my parents but my grandparents too and again we grew up in a very sheltered household because of my grandparents they their intention was to kind of protect us by keeping us as sheltered as possible not realizing that they were just not allowing us to grow and be successful in our lives or just learn you know protection is not always the way in that sense yeah but I don’t think I would have had the opportunities to live my life and pursue my ambitions as much as I’ve been able to being here
Raven: To your knowledge do you know if it’s like a lot of people leaving Pakistan to come here or is it just like a few people when it’s unstable they come over or is it like a constant kind of cycle?
Patel: Whoever can afford it to move to immigrate to one of the western countries they are doing it whoever can’t afford it are not doing it. Are we at the point of where we have groups of people becoming refugees? No we’re not there and I hope we’re not going to get to that point because there’s definitely a rise of the younger generation where those who went away to get educated in the western countries sorry and then coming back into the country to kind of revive it and really lay the foundation down for a strong country, for it to progress in different ways. So Yeah yeah like if people have the opportunity to move they do it but I mean affordability comes into it because it is very expensive
John: When you say affordability like how hard is it really like as far as money wise. Like you either can or you have absolutely no chance like you don’t even think about
Patel: Like let’s think about it in terms of like a ticket right it costs one way ticket from Pakistan to here average we’re not talking about deals that come up you know come up some days like about two grand or so one way two grand is geez a lot when you convert it into Pakistan rupees it’s a lot of money I’m trying to convert it in my head. I want to say $100 is about 10,000 rupees give or take so and to also put it into context like these your average Joe in Pakistan is not making even $10.00 a month that’s how difficult it is so you save you save you save and then you get your ticket after like let’s say so many years but then you also have to save for when you come here who’s going to support you are you know your relatives or friends and stuff so like it’s very expensive so my parents had saved a lot of money my dad had saved a lot of money. He had a very nice position um job back in Karachi Pakistan so to leave that you know I mean he saved a lot from that position and to leave that and come here it was definitely a big adjustment
Raven: Would you say that he had been saving for a long time? I don’t know was it like a thought in his mind “like alright we’re going to leave soon, just give me a second”
Patel: I don’t know if and we’ve never had this conversation it’s interesting you bring up that question. We’ve never had that conversation about like how long he was saving and stuff or even now how much he saves or I know he saves I know he has investments but he doesn’t discuss it with me specially and I don’t know if its because he just doesn’t feel comfortable or that’s just him and his personality right like he just finances discussing that with me has never been his thing but I know that just the way he is he is an accountant by nature so he is just frugal. He just likes to save and always worrying about like that rainy day that might take place so I mean I think that’s why he was able to help has been able to financially support my uncle and aunt to because he’s just really good about saving him and my mom you know if my mom gets like some like monetary present from her dad like you bet will save it she’s not going to go spend it and be like “Oh I’m going to go treat myself” like her idea of treating was “ I’m going to save and if somebody needs it I’m going give it back” so
John: I know here they have like a lot of festivals. Do you attend a lot of that?
Patel: Like here in the …
Raven: Like the International Festival
Patel: I have not been able to attend the International Festivals that have taken place here because
Raven: Oh it’s amazing
Patel: I’ve heard! And every time I have something that I had pre-planned and have to leave town for that but I know like a lot of my friends and acquaintances who are help in the organizing and really actively taking part in it. And It makes me so happy to see it take place and that it’s such a focal point in this community like people look forward to the international week and all these cultures and all these communities that live here are being represented which is just cool. So no I haven’t attended but I am aware and try to support it in whatever way that I can
Raven: Yeah you should definitely go
Patel: I need to I need to
Do you want me to tell you guys about like the weddings
John & Raven: Yeah Sure
Patel: So the Pakistani weddings are like a fricking week affair. Ok I’m exaggerating. It’s definitely at least 3 to 4 days of an affair no joke you’ve gotta have like your 3 to 4 outfits and everyday you wear a different outfit and you like deck out. Like you’re going to some masquerade ball. If you’ve seen it like you’ve got to bring on the jewelry you’ve got to bring on like those heavy embroidered outfits specially for women like they go all out. And then you have all these like traditions so we’ve definitely held on like we as in like the Pakistani and Indian diaspora community to our like you know like the expressive part the art part of our culture and we I mean we go out expressing it when it comes to our weddings. So like you have a day called mehndi it like essentially like a yellow party and you try to wear colors that are in the yellow family so like yellows and greens and oranges and reds. There’s a lot of dancing and not just like free style dancing like friends and family of like the bride and groom they’re going to prepare dances and like dances like weeks ahead of time months ahead of time and there’s like a competition the girl side dances versus the guy side dances and then there’s like a singing party too where you have like the more elderly women of the family will compete the two sides will compete in the songs right and you’ve got like this it’s called a toull it’s like a two sided drum and like that’s like your instrument and then you have all these voices like just singing the songs and whoever sings the longest the hardest knows the most words it’s just so much adrenaline that’s happening that day so that’s your mehndi. And then the day of your wedding it’s traditionally women wear red but then of course you see like now women kind of going away from that but same thing you’ll have like somebody will always try to have that kind of like leave a mark you know one of my family members the guy walked in not walked he rode in with a horse like that was his entrance and like family members and friends are dancing around him and he’s riding into the horse and it’s just like an amazing show except it’s happening and it’s live and it’s right there so that’s kind of carried over to this day and even those who my gen kids or individuals who were born and raised here who might not have been back to Pakistan or ever to Pakistan maybe visited once or twice they have held on to that parts like they want to have their weddings in that manner or express themselves in that manner which is really cool so yeah our weddings are kind of awesome
Raven: So how was your wedding? Was your wedding more traditional or how did that go
Patel: So yeah it was really my wedding was extremely interesting. The guy I married so my husband’s Indian and if you guys know a little bit about the Indian Pakistani politics or at least how it used to be back in the day and to some extent still today they did not like each other they still don’t like each other but I think at least the arts and the humanities people belong are much more welcoming and loving of each more so than those who are more on the politics side. But So my mother in-law and my father in-law they weren’t very happy with my husband’s decision to kind of marry me so I had a very odd wedding like they were all there but they had like this kind of like strange like face put on just to kind of like “oh we’re happy with this and yes we’re going to be supportive about this” and even though so the day of the wedding is thrown by the girls side right so I get to call the shots and even though it’s my event and I was supposed to call the shots I kept being like pressured into making my mother in-law happy she’s very traditional very like you’ve got to do it this way and the guy and the girl can’t sit together until they’re you know exchange their vows officially and I was like what to me that was so stupid but then I had to make her happy and more so than making her happy because I didn’t really care to I was like well if you want to do things your way then you pay for it but because I’m paying for it I’m going to do it my way. My parents felt like obligated to like have they were our guest and to make them happy so it was really this weird I wanted it to very low key and relaxed and stuff and I had to like do things a certain way to make my mother in-law happy essentially so it was really frustrating if I could redo my wedding I would. Totally would
Raven: You would make it more about you
Patel: It would be more about me exactly! I would have like a Barbeque in some huge park and not like dress up a certain and then just be limited to like a space where I just to sit and perform this like weird identity of a bride what a good bride is supposed to be.
Raven: So in that aspect do you see yourself more, more so like assimilated to American I don’t want to say ideas of weddings but it sounds like from what you said it was very traditional and it was kind of like this is extra type stuff
Patel: Yes and I think that’s I think more so well it definitely kind of aligns with the Americans sort of way of doing things but also progressive right like you always have had those certain voices progressive voices even in Pakistan yes they’ve been like kind of like pushed down uh un you’re the minority don’t don’t try to be all whatever but definitely helped to be here because I feel like I’ve been kind of gotten that like sort of power by being in that and being able to say to put my foot down and say no I think I’m going to do it this way or I don’t feel oppressed right because there are different types of oppression and depending on your environment certain oppression is not as oppressive I don’t know if that even if it actually is possible when you compare it to some extent but yeah like I definitely feel assimilated and definitely feel like having the opportunity to like kind of live my way or what I believe in.
John: In sticking with cultural events we talked about weddings what are the funerals like?
Patel: oh man that’s a good one I I mean nobody likes the idea of dying whatever and stuff but I love the way Muslim funerals are that take place because I’m Muslim as well. And they’re very simple they’re supposed to really be grounding and they’re supposed to remind you of the fact that like you don’t take anything back with you like literally nothing back with you. So traditionally as soon as the person passes away you’re supposed to bury them within like a day or two. Kind of a deal So if those funerals are taken back in Pakistan you have somebody pass away you take they’re at home most likely if they passed you wash the body in your bathroom or whatever kind of thing you, you know there’s yeah I mean literally within hours you will have that person’s body ready to go and to bury and everybody just comes together. And then there’s a way of wrapping for a male body you will have two pieces of white cloth that you wrap them in and then for women you have three pieces of cloth you wrap them in White and that’s it. You wash the body. The body is washed by the close family members and if those close family members are not present then the close friends and if not close friends then close relationships so you kind of like go down this like thing. But yeah and so it’s similar over here too that tradition has stayed very true in that regard where like My grandmother passed away earlier this year and she passed away in Houston within like a day everybody all the family kind of just like flew out there was there and then we the women because she had all her like daughters and her cousins here and her granddaughters or grandchildren rather we got together we washed the body there’s like three to four people who kind of lead it because again there’s a like process where you’re supposed to wash the body you start with the head that’s more like tradition it’s not necessarily religious the religious part is to get it done as soon as possible, come together and remind yourself like this is where we’re all headed. The tradition part is like Ok well three women are going to head it versus four women are going to head it. Kind of a deal of who’s going to be there. And the whole time you’re supposed to keep a white sheet over the body. So imagine like this is the sheet this is the body here and you put your hands here you’re not supposed to look but you’re supposed to the point of that is to maintain as much privacy as possible. To give even though that’s a deceased person that they have some respect in that regard they would not like to be kind of like to have their body out in the open in that sense. So yeah we wash the body and wrap it up. And just because the way things work here there’s regulations and rules here. We did it we washed her body and prepared it for burial the night before like Sunday evening then Monday afternoon you did we got together at the mosque prayed together and then immediately head to the cemetery to bury her. It’s very It’s very simple but it’s very like I find it very
Raven: meaningful
Patel: It’s very meaningful it’s very grounding in that sense. To kind of just like let’s get it together
John: Are there any like events for say coming of age like quinceanera, bat mitzvah
Patel: No we don’t it’s just one of those things like everybody comes of age you know men and women and it’s just Ok so that’s great
Raven: Still can’t date though
Patel: Well there certain things like after a certain age like ok so I’ll put it that way this way when I was younger like my parents didn’t care when I was like 10 or 9 if I played with my guy cousins but as soon as I was like 13 or 14 developing a little bit, looking a certain way they were like I don’t think you need to play with that cousin you can go wherever girls should play separately and the boys should stay so its like these unwritten rules that were kind of there and you just understood you know just have to keep separate so even if you weren’t thinking certain ways you have a natural now we split up so that’s the only coming of age thing I know it sucked like I can’t play with my cousins anymore.
Raven: Do you think you like are different in that aspect with like your children? Because you said you have four daughters right? How is that? Like are you do you think you’re more different than your parents? In that aspect of like dating or traditional things for like females.
Patel: That’s a great question. I feel like I try to be different consciously knowing how my parents were like “I don’t want to be like my parents” but then there are certain things that I as my girls get older I kind of just like from experience Oh that’s why my parents did it I just wish they would have explained it instead of just being just like no you can’t go here. It wasn’t like hey I’m actually worried like if you go and like I’m not going to allow you to have sleepovers because I don’t really know that family and even if I knew that family there’s a chance of you being hurt emotionally or physically kind of a deal I wish they would have explained that they never explained that just they were like no that’s it. What I’m trying to do different with my kids is like have that communication line open all the time. Does that mean they don’t question me? Of course they question me that’s the point of the kids to question their parents but I think at least they are able to at least my eldest is able to walk away like initially she’ll get upset and frustrated like why can’t I go on the sleepover then she’ll walk away and I’ll tell her and then she’ll come back oh ok I kind of see your point but you can’t always be fearful of everything you know you’re going to have to let me go one day I’m like I know
Raven: Just not today
Patel: Just not today when you can pay for your own insurance you go for it girl. So my eldest is 11 she’s turning 12 this coming January so we’re definitely crossing that line right like this idea of dating. what can I wear? what can I do? I’m definitely I’m not as strict in terms of dressing as my parents were but you know I’ll tell her you don’t need to wear shorts to middle school you want to wear shorts when we’re out together sure. You know after I hear certain stories in school some girl got whatever of course I’m going to be fearful so I’m like even though I want to have that trust that she should be able to fend for herself I find myself doing certain things that are kind of kind of like what my parents did to some extent so never say never.
John: Where’d you get your first job
Patel: Oh my gosh. My first job like actual paid job right not like an internship. My first paid job was at Rite Aid pharmacy and it was like the best day of my life. And I remember getting my first check. Oh man, I spent it on whatever I wanted. My dad was like “you’re supposed to save your money not spend everything” I was like “It’s my first check” And then my mom was like “You’re supposed to donate to a charity as a thankful thing” I was like “I know but It’s my first check, I swear I’ll do it with the next one” But it was awesome I had to fight for it my parents were not happy with me getting a job. They were like you shouldn’t why are gonna get a job can’t we support you? I was like it’s not about that I just want to learn and have experience. Then the next argument was well why can’t you get a job in an office and I was like you know there’s just no winning. And again, they have very different idea of what a respectable thing to do is and whatever those are just things you have to fight and I think they’ll always exist yeah
John: That’s funny Rite Aid was my second job
Patel: Really I worked from the 11th grade into my senior year into my first semester and a half in college. That was a good paying job at that time and my manager was awesome so I was like I’m just going to stick with it
Raven: So what do you do now
Patel: So currently I’m working part time in the office of Environmental Stewardship and Sustainability. I handle the money for that office. Which is not something I trained for but I’ve learned because it’s very different in a like a government institution to say. So I do that part time and then my other part time I’m working on my masters in writing Rhetoric and technical communication so I do that and then when I’m done doing that I love working in just being part of my local community and the non-profit organizations here so I’ve worked with several different ones but currently I’m working with Faith In Action which is you have about 26 congregations around Harrisonburg come together pick a social justice issue to work on and then use like faith as their driving motivation to work towards that social justice issue. So our current social justice issue that we are working on is criminal justice reform. We’re very passionate about it there definitely needs to be change so it’s just our passion our faith kind of drives us to be part of the larger community and doing good and so yeah
John: One last thing. So how is it intertwining the Indian and Pakistani cultures at home like with your kids.
Patel: It’s so blurry right because Well first of all like yes there are some differences but you can only tell the difference if you’ve kind of grown up in the cultures somebody looking from the outside is like well you kind of where the same clothes and you kind of eat the same foods you know little bit of regional differences like its going to the south versus going to the north and the food is a little more flavorful in the south versus the north it’s like “what is this” so it’s kind of like that with India and Pakistan. But So Riswan, he’s my husband, who he grew up here so again he held on to the clothing and the food but not so much the traditions. If anything he hated half the traditions he’s like they don’t make sense they’re irrational we’re not going to do this. So at home it’s kind of like Indian and Pakistani foods and then clothing on special occasions if there’s like a wedding or one of the religious events that we’ll go to. And it’s funny because I grew up learning mostly Pakistani cooking but then my grandparents and my parents and my aunts they would do certain Indian specialty delicacies but now that I’m here my recipes the little bit of differences between the Indian and the Pakistani cooking are just non-existent now cause like it’s just a mix match in my house
John: My family is Haitian and they like to try to wear, they like to try to mix their American clothes with the Haitian clothes I don’t really like most of it but do you guys try that?
Patel: Absolutely Oh my Gosh So like A very popular thing to do is to have kameez which is the shirt and it’s like, it will come from anywhere, like it will fall anywhere from above your knees to like below your knees and instead of wearing the Shalwar which is the traditional Pakistani or Indian pants they wear it with Jeans. Like that’s like the coolest thing to do. That’s what my husband does all the time and that’s what my daughter did actually today. So she didn’t wear the shalwar but she wore the shirt you know the kameez and she’s like well “I love the jeans, jeans are comfortable”. And then just the top is just like the representative, very colorful piece. So yeah Oh we do that. We even have our music completely at this point. You have your Urdu and English within one song it’s like going back and forth and you’re like how fascinating is that.
Raven: Is that hard to like process or does your mind like, it’s nothing
Patel: When I’ve had good coffee I’m on it. The day’s I’ve not had good caffeine I’m like what can we slow down like pause! What are you saying and what are you trying to say? But it is pretty cool right? The human capacity and the ability to especially when you’re bilingual or multilingual how you can just switch between your thinking ability and the language even but then it’s awesome it’s something I still I don’t think struggle with is the right word but have my days with like I’m really thinking in Urdu right now how do I translate that into English and actually put that down on the paper so people can understand it. It’s fun.
Raven: Yeah it sounds like a challenge. Well, that’s it.
John: Yeah, that’s all I have
Raven: I think those are all of the questions we have.
Patel: Awesome
Raven: Thank you so much for your time
Patel: Oh of coarse, my pleasure
John: This was good
Patel: Thank you for this opportunity. I hope my answers made sense to some extent
Raven: Oh they were great

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Jose “Pepe” Rojas

Interview with Jose "Pepe" Rojas

by Callie Carlstrom and Westley Smith

Summary
Jose “Pepe” Rojas was born in Santiago, Chile and lived as an only child with his mother. He grew up in a dysfunctional family. His father, while very smart and artistic, was lazy, drunk, and violent. He left Pepe’s and his mother when was five years old. His fondest memories of Chile were playing football with his many friends. As a young adult, Pepe became heavily involved in drugs. However, his whole life turned around when one of his friends invited him to attend church. At first, Pepe had no interest in church but reluctantly decided to attend after his friend’s invitations. It is here, where he discovered the power of Jesus and Christianity. He later met a woman in the church who would become his wife, and they went on to have three kids. Due to his love for justice, he proceeded to become a missionary and moved to Brazil to receive training with Youth with a mission, Y1. He worked with them for many years, moving to Africa, Honduras, and finally the United States. He currently is a pastor at Grace Covenant Church and continues to preach his message of acceptance

A Citizen of the World

Pepe Rojas spent a significant amount of his life outside of the US before finally migrating here. Pepe has traveled a significant amount already and lived in numerous places and countries. This lifestyle of frequent traveling makes it so that he would not have any apprehensions about traveling far away, and possibly would be aiming to travel somewhere regardless, if not the US.  As a result of this, he doesn’t have any social ties that are holding him down into any one place. Pepe does feel like he’s a part of this country, but he also doesn’t feel bound to a specific country either. In that way, yes, he does seem to feel a part of America, but no, he doesn’t seem to feel “American” any more or less than he feels Brazilian, African, etc. despite this, he has mentioned applying for citizenship back in Denver many years ago, so he has likely gone through the naturalization process and is an American citizen. When asked what he felt that he left behind in Chile and Brazil he replied:

…because I was living in so many places, I didn’t have the, the strong connection with the country. I was, I feel like I’m I am a citizen of the world… Some people are very connected with the country and my food, my bread, or the weather or I am not, I’m completely different.

Giving Back

The factor of his immigration was an invitation to be a part of a conference called Mercy Ministries. After becoming a Christian, he wanted to train to be a missionary and volunteer in humanitarian efforts throughout the world. His involvement with youth with a mission, aka Y1, led him to aid in Equatorial Guinea, Africa. The organization that was organizing this conference considered his work to be a “mercy ministry”. They were curious about his ministry, so he flew to Tyler, Texas to meet with them. This was his first exposure to America.

Eight years later, after finishing aid in a relief effort for Honduras resulting from a hurricane, he and his family believed it was time to move on. How they actually made the decision to come to the US not a normal pull factor compared to what we learned in class. When asked why he came to the US he replied,  “we asked to the Lord ‘what is next, where we go’? And we feel that the Lord says go to the United States” This just contributes to what makes Pepe’s immigrant experience so unique. 

A Man of Faith

The primary pull source of his migration to the US was the international Christian mercy ministry known as Y1. He had been working with Y1 in various countries for very many years at this point. He knew that he could move to the US with Y1 as he has done in many of these other countries. Y1 would provide him and his family housing through an affiliated organization. This organization was well acquainted with Y1, and provided housing to him and other members for a very low cost. In summation, his housing was provided to him because of the very good relationship between Y1 and this housing org. He also had a pre-established social group through Y1. He had made friends through volunteering, and some of those members he had befriended lived in the United States. His friends helped support him while he was volunteering in the US and could not be paid a salary. He also had Y1 as a whole, as a social group. It could act as a community, or common ground with other members he did not know, that was already established in the US. He had many resources to get him to the US, and to establish himself with, as well as a social group. The only hindrance was the lengthy process of acquiring permanent residence, and his not having a salary.

Integration

Another important concept to discuss and reflect against this interview is an immigrant’s experience with integration. Pepe’s experience was slightly alternative to the norm in this category as well. He didn’t have to navigate a new labor market. Because he was brought here through Y1, he was given an occupation as a volunteer, eventually as a pastor in the church, and provided assistance in various forms, including through friends and acquaintances he had made years earlier who had since moved to America. He also didn’t face as much discrimination as others around him due to his good English and position in the church, which I’ll go into later.

What was similar about Pepe’s immigration to the immigrant experience we learned in class was his struggle for a visa. He could not yet legally be paid a salary on account of him not having a permanent residence. He applied for a religious worker visa, being told the process would take six months. It ended up taking about five years. This exemplifies that coming to the US for any type of reason can be a long and difficult process.

Reception in America

He received a considerably warm reception when he moved here. There were a few contexts of reception that lent favorably to this. One, he settled in Denver, Colorado. In Denver, the public has both a positive perception and attitude towards Hispanic people. In Denver, there’s a large Latino influence. For example; the largest Cinco de Mayo festival in the country is held there.  People have embraced the Latino community there, so there’s much less hostility or aloofness. When moving to Harrisonburg it was definitely a different environment but similar to the O’Neil and Tienda study, he didn’t notice an overwhelming amount of hostitially. Just like this study, this is mostly likely due to the influx in the immigrant population in recent years..

Another context is that he was living in a community with other immigrants here to work for the church. They shared similar experiences and were either in the same process of integrating or had already integrated previously and he could learn from them. They were all from many different countries, likely including Chile, so they could learn from each other’s individual cultures, while not feeling like the odd one out since they’re all from separate countries. He is already relating with other immigrants now, as well as friends he had made in the past who are native to America, and the local population was very accepting of Latinos.

The third context of reception, which I noted before, is that he spoke English. Pepe learned English in high school, and had been speaking it regularly for years now in other countries he was aiding in. This bridges the initial language barrier between many immigrants and the locals. He was now largely involved on social services as well, with humanitarian efforts from the organization he’s a member of. A question that often pops up is how immigrants experience political incorporation when integrating. In Pepe’s case, it didn’t seem to change his view any. He attributes this to his having a very high sense of justice already before coming to America, and this is likely to be true, considering that he has based so much of his life around traveling the world to give aid to the poor and the wronged.

Immigrant Harrisonburg

It sounded like integration for him was a bit more challenging than in Denver. Harrisonburg did not have the strong Latino culture or acceptance that Denver had. Pepe said that when he “moved to Harrisonburg, Virginia. The people here is very polite, very polite, but in some way  in my opinion very hypocritical. They don’t express really, they, they kind of smile at you, but they are no smiling really” Pepe recalled being surprised that Harrisonburg is known to some by the motto of being “the friendly city” :

There is people, really, there is people who really, really, really embrace others, but there is other people that are still, no. And I understand. This, this is, confederate land. One of the things that when when, that I noticed when, when, when we moved four years ago here, here in this place, I saw more confederate flag than any ever in my 14 years before.

Fortunately, there was already a large network of Latino people in Harrisonburg, and since he was involved with the Latino church, he was very directly plugged into it. Zarragh noted the influx in the Hispanic population in Latinization of the Valley and Pepe even noted a difference in the 4 years he’s been here. He even mentions a neighborhood that he calls the “United Nation, because there is people from everywhere…United States is a melting pot and like I say to other people before, this melting pot-pot is changing from White to Brown”

This gave Pepe something to learn back on. He make friends very easily so this has likely helped a lot as well. Unfortunately, he still has experienced some discrimination. He recalled that he had “suffer some discrimination. Yeah. Yeah. Um, maybe less than other people, um, because [he] am no the typical Latino. [He’s] tall, [he] can speak English.”

Struggles

Other than mentioning it prior, he didn’t give much detail on what sort of discrimination, maybe because he didn’t want to dwell on it too much, or maybe because we didn’t ask for him to elaborate. He did, however, give one specific example, to give us an idea of what he experiences:

“No long time ago I was in a restaurant with my family and people was coming later than us and they was served first. For example. And I notice! They came 20 minutes later than us and they serve to them. Th-Th-That’s to give you some ideas and other, and other things too. But yeah, it’s no easy. Has no easy.”

 

Creating Change

He visits his home country about once a year. He goes with a dentist from his congregation who wants to help the poor and needy by providing free dental services. So, Pepe’s motivations for going back seem to be more about doing humanitarian work and less about visiting for pleasure.

Pepe made mention of how so many people have been saying to “make America white again”, but that is not possible. He says with all of the increases in Hispanic yearly birth rates and major growth of the Hispanic population, America is becoming brown. He says that this is inevitable and a turning point.  The answer to this isn’t intolerance but to embrace and accept that “everyone will be a minority”. This can be interpreted as commentary toward Hispanics being larger members of US society going forward and that he likely feels a part of this society through association.

Conclusion

Pepe Rojas immigrated, worked as a volunteer through an organization while applying for citizenship, got to know a community of people, many of them immigrants, with values similar to his own, and built a network of many friends. He’s since moved here to Harrisonburg four years ago and is a firmly established member of its community.  He’s been here in the United States for fourteen years now. His story is one of trial and self-actualization. He’s an enriched person, having lived a lifetime of culturally enriching experiences. Naturally, someone like this is difficult to sum up in so few words. Here stands a person with charity. He has placed himself in so many different countries and cultures, going through this same process of integrating into their communities, with so many social, cultural, and bureaucratic hoops involved, all for the purpose of giving them aid, sending a message, or making a connection.

 

Westley: Okay, so what is your name?
Jose Pepe Rojas: My name is Jose Pepe Rojas
W: when and where were you born?
J: I born in Chile. Santiago, Chile
W: Uh, can you tell me about your family, like mom, Dad, siblings, etc.?
J: Yeah, Sure. Um, I’m coming from a very (pause) eh dysfunctional family. My mother wasn’t a hard worker. My father was a lazy guy, very smart, very artistic, very gifted with the hands, but very lazy and plus very violent and drunk and uh I don’t have brothers or sister. Um, and um, my father leave home when I was five years old (pause) and, he never come back.
W: Um. tell us a little about Chile, like, what was your life like in Chile growing up?
J: Um, uh Chile is, it’s a very, very unique place is, is, is in the continent, but in some ways like an island. Uh, we have the Pacific Ocean from one side and the Andes cross all the country in the other. That means we are very, in some way very isolated in some way, uh physical. It’s a very it’s a very rich country in natural resources. Um, uh, we produce a lot of fruits and veggies. Uh, the country is very diverse from north to south. North is the driest desert on the world, is in the north. And the center is like, um, like California in some ways, very fruitful. South, is, is a rainy, but it’s still a lot of agriculture. Um, a lot of animals, um, all the milk in the products, the, the, the area produces in south of the country and in the corner this part is very close to the Antarctic and it’s very, very, very diverse. Very long too. If you put the country here in the United States, let’s see, it’s something like from New York to California maybe that long.
W: Wow
Callie: Wow
J: but very, very skinny. Very, very skinny. And um, right now we have- the population is growing, maybe 17, 18 millions around that? Yeah.
W: What were your, like, fondest memories from Chile?
J: Um, um, pause), let’s see. I think soccer. So sorry, but it’s football, okay? Football, football.
W: (laughs)
C: (laughs)
J: Like (if) I say Soccer, I can offend some of my, uh, people. Yeah, football. That was the most fun thing. My friends too. I grew up with a lot of friends. I make a lot of crazy things when I was young.
W: Mm
J: Um, yeah, very good friends and so good, good memories.
W: That’s excellent. (pause) Uh, what kinds of crazy things, do you mean?
W: (laughs)
C: (laughs)
J: There is some that I can give you. An other are off the record obviously,
W: (laughs)
C: (laughs) Yeah?
J: but um, (pause) um, I was in many trouble in my young age. I was involved in drugs. I was involved in drinking. Crazy, uh, years of my life. I didn’t make nothing I just drugged
W: Hmm
J: and that was, wasn’t good, wasn’t good. I think, (pause) um, I make so many things so bad, that, just to give you (chuckle) an idea, when, in my country and that years in the seventies, the go to the army was mandatory. Mandatory. Well, I was in the army for maybe a week and they kicked me out
W: Oh.
C: Oh my goodness
J: because I wasn’t a (pause) good person.
C: Wow
J:In the army, they, they don’t, they don’t even think, “well, we can fix this man.” They kicked me out (snaps fingers) “get out.” Yeah. Many different things, not doing well.
C: That’s crazy
J: that time, bad decisions.
W: Wow, Um, how old were you when you decided to immigrate out of Chile?
J: Um, how old was, um, (long pause) I leave for the first time with my family in 86. I was 31 years old.
W: Okay
J: That was the first time I moved with my family, from Chile to Brazil
W: Mhm
J: That I, I have been living in many, many different countries and um, but that was the first time. 31 years old, I moved with my wife and my three kids to Brazil.
W: So you grew up in Chile, you and your mom and umm, you liked to play soccer a lot, had a lot of crazy years going when you were young
J: Yeah
W: and then, uh, could you tell us about settling down and having a family in Chile?
J: Yeah. Um, well I, (pause) I, I became Christian. Um, and that was really for me, that was my salvation because I was (pause) having too much drugs in my body that I was a little crazy. I was turning crazy. Um, even without drugs I have, I have, (in the past during this time in his life) I been hallucinating and all the time that was my mother was thinking, “I need to take you to the psychiatric because I can’t manage you.” Eh, I can, I don’t live with my father, I don’t have brothers. I live with my mother and my grandma (pause) and I was crazy. And, one friend of mine invited me to the church. At the beginning I thought, no way, no way jose, I’m not going to the church. You are crazy.
W: (laughs)
C: (laughs)
J: What? Jesus and uh what? No, no way. But at the end, I went with my friend, with several other friends, all these guy was doing exactly the same thing: drugs. We went to the church, in my case I became Christian. And that was my (pause) salvation really. In all sense, okay? My spiritual, my life, everything, and I meet this sweet girl at the church.
W: Mhm. At the church
J: Yeah. And (pause) I married with her and everything changed.
W: Wow. All because of the church
J: Because of the church. Yeah. All because of the church.
C: That’s crazy
W: Do you remember what….like say, you said, “oh, I don’t know about this”. Like, do you remember what the turning point was where you were like, “wow, I’m going to become Christian now.”?
J: Yeah. Um, the, the turning point was during this, one of the first service, first or second service that I attend the church, the pastor make an invitation to people to come to the altar. And, the idea was pray for them and that is all. But, because I was very macho, I don’t want to go to the front, I don’t want it to be there. And the pastor says in the moment, I know that someone here in this building don’t desire to come to the front. Let me tell you something. You can pray wherever you are. You can pray. You can pray in the bus, walking, in the bathroom, sit(ting) in the toilet. You can pray. And I was thinking “Okay, when I leave from the service, from the church, from the point of the church to my house takes maybe 50 minutes, one hour, by bus. And I will sit.” I remember very clear by the window and all my friends over here making noise. You know, guys, 17 years old, 19, 20, crazy. I was there and I looked out the window, say a small prayer, very simple. I say “I don’t know you, but the guy in the church says that if I talked to you, you can help me and I need your help. I’m open.”
J: That was all. Nothing more, nothing- (mimics heavenly noises and says “hallelujah!”)
W: (laughs)
C: (laughs)
J: No, nothing like that. Nothing. Very, very, very simple. When I (pause) when I arrived to my place, just get out of the bus, I was completely different. At the point when I arrived home, I opened, I live in an apartment. I opened the door of my apartment and my mom looked at me and she says “Now, What kind of drug is this one?”
C. (Gasp)
J: And I say “Mom. It’s no drugs. Nothing. I have, I’m clean.” “And what’s going on?” I say “Well, I’m a Christian.” “What?!” “I’m a Christian.” Everything changed.
W: Was your mom and grandma, were they Christian or?
J: My grandma. My mom was (pause) in French como si como sa.
W: Mm.
J: I don’t know, but yeah, that was my turning point.
W: Wow. That’s really powerful.
C: So, you said you first moved from Chile to Brazil.
J: Yeah
C: What was your experience there?
J: Um, uh, I was pursuing (to) be a missionary. I was looking to do, um, to do something. I, I, I(pause) I want to help others, but I recognize that I need some training in order to do this. And this was the reason. We moved to Brazil to get training with an organization called youth with a mission. Y1. And I met with them and I spend, we spend with my wife maybe 14 years of our life (pause) working with them.
C: So when did you eventually come to the US?
J: Um, I came several times. Um, I came-the first time was in 1992. At that time I was living in Equatorial Guinea, Africa and I received an invitation to be part of an uh, conference called mercy ministries. And because I was working in Africa and living in Africa, they consider what we were doing there was, um, mercy ministry. They want to know what kind of ministry was this, and I flew to Texas. Tyler, Texas. That was my first time. Um, later came other time, and at the end, um, in 1999, I moved from my family, from Chile to Honduras. And at the end of October, 1998, there was a big hurricane who almost destroy(ed) Central America and Honduras. Honduras was the, the worst country in Central America. And I went to visit what, what, what was the reality of the country, come back to Chile, share with my wife and my kids, and take the decision, “lets move to Honduras and help to the people in Honduras”. And I live in Honduras for two years. 1999 until 2000. At the end of 2000, we built 52 houses for people who lost everything during the hurricane. And when we finished the project there, we asked to the Lord “what is next, where we go”? And we feel that the Lord says go to the United States. And we moved to Denver, Colorado and we spent (pause) lets see, 14 years in Denver and four years ago I moved, we moved to Virginia.

W: What was the process of getting to the US. Like did you have to, like how, how hard was it to become an, uh, I guess, did you have like your, uh, like your green card or umm?

J: Yeah, permanent residence. Is- that is a long story.
W: Okay
J: But I try, I will try to make the short version. Um, I was, um, pastor in a church in, in Colorado, and with the (pause) being under the cover of this church, I get my religious worker visa, but in order to get that green card, I went, I moved to Chile to get the, the visa in Chile in order to get this work permit. It’s a long process, it’s a very expensive process. Very, very complicated. Very bureaucratic. Yeah. Takes years and thousands and thousands of dollars to get a uh, work permit.
W: One -just a simple question. How many years do you think that took you to uh, get the permit?

J: Um, It’s very interesting (pause) because they say for get the permanent residents, um take or the permit. I don’t remember right now. What is the permit or the um, whatever. That one of the things take in the law, If you read the law for a religious worker visa, they say, immigration says these things take six months. Well, in my case, take I think four or five years to get (permit)
W: Wow. That’s a long time

J: Take a long time. Take a long time.

W: What do you feel like you, uh, left behind in uh, Chile and Brazil and such. Did you feel like (when) you moved to the US, did you have to say goodbye to any family or any people or anything?

J: Yeah. Well, my family, my particular family is very small. Um at this moment I have just one cousin. He’s third or fourth grade, I don’t have any relationship. Was wasn’t very difficult for me. In other way too um, I, because I was living in so many places, um, I didn’t have the, the strong connection with the country. I was, I feel like I’m I am a citizen of the world. I am no, you know. Yeah. Some people are very connected with the country and my food, my bread, or the weather or I am not, I’m completely different. No.
W: That’s very freeing.
J: Yeah. Yeah.

W: Um, was there anyone in here in America waiting for you when you got here?
J: To what?
W: What- was anyone here in America that you knew, that was like waiting for you here?

J: Yeah. I have some friends, some friends. Especially in my years working with Y1, youth with a mission. I meet a lot of people. I met a lot of people in Chile. I met a lot of people when I live in, in, in, in Africa and um, I’m very, I am a very social person and I can make friends (snaps fingers) very easily. And when I came here, yeah, I got some of my good friends.
W: Um, when did you start learning English?
J: Um, I started learning English in high school in Chile. Its its its mandatory, its very basic, but for me it was good. I learned, I learned easily.
W: Did you start really using it like when you left Chile or was it more like when you came to the US you started really using it?

J: Oh No. During my years living in Chile and work, working with Y1, I use a lot of English to communicate with the other missionaries and yeah.

W: Um, when you got here to the US like uh, (pause) setting up, what was your first job, like how’d you start making money?

J: Uh, um, my, my first job here in United State was like a volunteer because I couldn’t, I couldn’t work. They, they don’t allow legally. Um, and, and I’ve worked with the same organization that I work at in Honduras. They move the office, uh, the headquarters from Hawaii to Denver, Colorado and I work it with them like a volunteer. That means I have some support. I didn’t get salary, but I have some support from friends. That, that was my first thing; friends who support me.
W: So when you moved, did you, um, (pause) did you feel like there was like a community of like a supportive community around you? Maybe of uh, a lot of Chileans or say people who are also immigrants kind of?
J: Yeah. I-I live in an organization. This wasn’t a housing program
W: Oh.
J: for people of low income. And very interesting, many, many of them were Christian, but many of them too was foreigners like me. Um, there was Ukrainians, Russians, a lot of Russians, um, Africans, um, people, a few people from Europe I remember very well. And these organizations provided housing but in very, very low cost and that was very, very affordable for us. And the other thing, too is, these organization was- have a very good connection with Y1. And there was a Y1 based in Arbada. What is northeast or northwest Denver, and they have a very good relationship. And when they know I was coming, they helped me.
W: That’s great.
J: Yeah.
C: It’s nice that you had like, a lot of communities everywhere.
J: Yeah, Yeah. A lot of people was there trying to help.
W: Uh, what did you do for recreation in uh, when you moved, I guess?
J: Umm, recreation, let’s see.
W: Like for fun, you know?
J: Yeah, yeah
W: Yeah
J: Yeah. Um, you know, I spent a lot of time at the church, with people. Um, again, I’m very social and, um, our home was always open with- for people. Um, we don’t have any problem if somebody came *knock knock knock*s (knocks on desk with hand) and knocked the door without invitation. You are very welcome. And if we are, if that was during lunchtime, “Oh, come on! Let’s move! Move the plates and you are welcome.” You know? Um, I love that thing. I love, I love movies. I love um, uh I’m very sport guy. I love (to) play. I’m very competitive. Um, if you invite me to play tennis, even when I’m no good, I will try to beat you.
W: (laughs)
C: (laughs)
W: I like that.
J: Yeah.
C: Yeah um, So you said you’ve uh, held like a lot of jobs, um, based on Y1? Is that what you’re saying?
J: Yeah
C: Um, so is that what brought you to Virginia?
J: Yeah. Well, um, let me go a little bit, a little back.
C: Yeah.
J: Um, I get my green card
C: Ok
J: in Denver, Colorado and I started my application for my citizenship. Okay? Um, some of my, two of my kids was living very close to here, one was living- is living in, in, in Baltimore, in an area of Baltimore, and at that time my oldest daughter was living in dc. And even when we have a nice church, a lot of friends, a lot of friends, um, something was missing, and was my family. Um, my youngest daughter at that time was living in India, uh, with her husband and I was- we were again, a nice place, very good friends, but the family was very important for me and for my wife too. Um, we want(ed) to be close with our grandkids. My grandfather was a very, very special man for me, um, because I didn’t have a father. He became in some way my father and always have in my heart the desire to replicate in some way with my grandkids, what I have received with my grandpa. And, and we moved here. We found that this church was looking for another Latino pastor to take care of the Latino church, the Latino congregation and, and we move and we connected very well and I’m here
C: that’s great. (clears throat) So did you find it was easy to acclimate to Harrisonburg or the US in general, like did you have any troubles with it or…
J: What kind of trouble?
C: Um, anything like uh, getting used to the weather as you said earlier or like discrimination-
W: Or culture shock.
J: Ohh
C: Culture?
J: Oh, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. I think if, if, um, if I look back to Colorado, Denver, Colorado and um, Harrisonburg, Virginia is, is, is, is a big difference.
C: Umhm
J: Big difference. Um, very broadly the uh, Colorado have a big Latino influence, a big, big Latino influence and the people are, if, if we can say more liberal uh, sometimes when, when we use the term liberal is, is the connotation is little. I don’t know little different.
C: Yeah
J: Maybe I can say is more humanitarian,
C: Mmhm
J: maybe sounds much, much better. Um, uh, for example, just to give an example, Cinco de Mayo, uh one of the biggest Cinco de Mayo celebration in United States is in Denver, Colorado.
C: Oh!
W: Wow
C: I didn’t know that
J: Yeah
W: Me neither
J: is huge.
C: (laughs)
J: Huge. Why? Because the white American has embrace, the Latino community in-in a very good manner, very good way.
C: Yeah
J: I moved to uh, Harrisonburg, Virginia. Uh, the people here is very polite, very polite, but in some way in my opinion very hypocritical. They don’t express really, they, they kind of smile at you, but they are no smiling really.
C: Yeah
J: Um, I have uh suffer some discrimination. Yeah. Yeah. Um, maybe less than other people, um, because I am no the typical Latino. I am, I’m tall, I can speak English
C: Mmhm
J: maybe not very well
C: (laughs)
W: (laughs) What?
J: but I can speak.
C: You speak fine.
W: Yeah, it’s perfectly fine.
J: with a little strange accent, but I can do this. But I still I suffer some, some discrimination. Just to give you some ideas. No, no, no, some, no long time ago I was in a restaurant with my family and people was coming later than us and they was served first. For example. And I notice! They came 20 minutes later than us
C: Mmhm
J: and they serve to them. Th-Th-That’s to give you some ideas and other, and other things too. But yeah, it’s no easy. Has no easy. It’s very interesting that my senior pastor, my pastor says one of the first time, you know what the motto of Harrisonburg, the friendly, the friendly city?
C & W: Mmhm
J: Uhhh, I don’t know.
C: (laughs)
J: I don’t know.
C: Yeah
J: I have some. There is people, really, there is people who really, really, really embrace others, but there is other people that are still, no. And I understand. This, this is, uh, confederate land. One of the things that when when, that I noticed when, when, when we moved four years ago here, here in this place, I saw more confederate flag than any ever in my 14 years before.
C: Has living here made you more interested in politics? Or have you always…
J: No, no,
C:MUmhm
J: It’s nothing new for me.
C: Ok.
J: Um, no. Um, the, the reason is (clears throat) for me, I, I have a high sense of justice.
C: Mmhm
J: Um, could be from when I was a child. Uh, the situation that I suffer with my father. I don’t know. Th-There, I was very poor too. I live in a very, very poor neighborhood. I grew up in a poor neighborhood and my family was the poorest of the poor. And, I don’t know too if maybe it’s a mix of things. My mother in law, um, she was a poor lady, but years before she was a very well educated, living in one of the most richest families in Santiago. She lost everything. And, and she have a heart for the community and I learned, I learned something from her. Is, is nothing new.
C: Mmhm
J: I love justice. I and, yeah.
C: So did you feel, um, moving to Harrisburg you said it was very different. Do you still feel that your received okay? Did, did you find um, Harrisonburg had a nice community? Um like of immigrants and stuff like that?
J: Yeah, I think, um, things are changing.
C: Mmhm
J: We have, uh, Sal Romero in, in the city council.
C: Yeah.
K: We have an African American lady too.
C: Mmhm
J: Um, back of, back of our church here. We have a, a, a neighborhood that I call United Nation.
W: (laughs) I like that.
J: Um, because there is people from everywhere.
C: Yeah
J: Um, these, uh, let me put this in this way. United States is a melting pot and like I say to other people before, this melting pot-pot is changing from White to Brown. And this is something that is irreversible, is, is, is not possible when somebody says, uh, “Make white America again”. Sorry, no.
C: (laughs) Yeah.
J: It’s, it’s not going to happen. Can be happen if you are take the guns, the weapons and create on a, I don’t what, um, but it’s not going to happen. Really because this melting pot is changing, is changing to be more brown than white. Um, if I remember well four or five years ago, I go in this country for first time in the history, more Latino babies born in one year than white babies. That, that is, pay attention of this. This is something that is, it’s not turning point, is. And, we need to live with that.
C: Yeah.
J: We need to accept this. This is the reality.
C: Yeah
J: Even they close the door. If they shut the door completely. Still with the people living here, the number says, and I’m not saying this, I’m very bad mathematic, for math, I’m terrible. But the people who knows says maybe 2030, maybe 2035, there is no going to be majority in the country. Everybody’s going to be minority.
C: I’ve heard of predictions even as early by 2020.
J: Look at that.
C: Mmhm
W: Mmhm
J: Very soon.
C: Yeah, very soon
J: Very soon. That means-
W: Exponential growth, you know?
J: Yeah. The thing is, with that reality, are you continue it fighting against other who are- no man! This is the time to start to embrace because we are going to be here in the same boat. All of us.
C: Umhm. Yeah. Would you say that your, your overall experience in the United States has been a positive one then?
J: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
C: That’s good to hear.
J: Very positive.
C: Um, what has been the most difficult part about living in Harrisburg- like Harrisonburg specifically? Is it because you didn’t have, don’t have like that big of a culture as you did in Denver or is it something else?
J: You know what I, again, I don’t have.I think the most difficult thing for me is when I interact with people who, who have a different opinion about me just because the color of my skin or my face or my, uh, my broken and poor English. That is the only thing. That is my biggest conflict. My… But it’s, it’s no me too, it’s them. Because if they know me, maybe very probably they can find in me a good guy and a very good friend. I’m, no, uh, yeah.
C: That’s nice to hear. Um, so what has it been like working, um, at this like church? Um, do you find that because you’re in a real- like involved in the religious community, people have been more accepting? Um, or what has just been your over-overall experience?
J: Yeah, I think ,yeah. Um, it’s very interesting here in this country. Many people call themselves Christian,
C: Mmhm
J: but really, uh, many of them are no really good Christian. They are, I don’t know, fans?
C & W: (Laugh)
W: They go to church on Sunday, fair weather fans, yeah.
J: Yeah, but Christian, no. But, still they have some respect when somebody says I am a pastor and um, yeah, you know, working in this church, yeah.
C: It’s good to hear that. Um, would you say that being where you are, like involved with this covenant has given you a different perspective on Harrisonburg and then maybe other people um involved in like different situations or no?
J: Well, uh, the good thing for me is to be in this church is, is this is a church who is embracing every single one. We’re no making any difference. Um, the Latino Church of this con- this church has been here for 31, 32 years. This was the first Latino church in all Harrisonburg. This one.
C: Oh my goodness.
J: That was the first one.
W: Wow
J: That speak very strong. That here, the people of this church have a commitment with this group of people even when they don’t speak language, their language. Some, some of them are undocumented. I don’t mention illegal because I don’t like that word,
C & W: Mmhm
J: but undocumented.
C: Mmhm
J: They are here and they are welcome here in this church. Um, we, some of our series, we, we bridge by series for four weeks, six week, whenever. I remember we put a banner outside with the new series. We put the title of this series in English and in Spanish and Arabic for our community over here. Um, when we open, when we have programs here, like, uh, harvest, party, uh, Easter, we have all kinds of people here. Muslim, Christian, non Christian, non Muslim. Everybody’s welcome. I love that because for me this is the, this is the church is the best platform to speak to others about how we can work, how we can live, how is the way to love other people. This is the best, the best way.
C: It’s a really good message, your- you’re spreading.
J: Yeah
W: I agree, yeah
C: That you should be accepting everyone. Um, so have you been, visited Chile ever since you’ve moved to the United States?
J: Yeah, yeah.
C: Do you go back often?
J: (clears throat) I go to Chile almost every year,
C: That’s nice
J: (clears throat) every year, um, um, in the last three years, four years, March is the time when we go to Chile, um, there is a dentist here in the city, very well known is, uh, Smile Makers.
C: Mmhm
J: The doctor is Greg Johnson and he’s part of our congregation. And when I arrived here, he says to me, I want to go back to Chile. I have been in Chile many times and I want to go back to Chile, but I want to go to another place I’m going to go to Puerto Montt, is a city maybe 1200 kilometer from Santiago, and I want to take a dental team and go and help poor people in, in that area. And we have been doing this for the last four years. Um, if I put the number I can say thousands of people has been blessed by Greg and other dentists, other, uh, hygienist helping, cleaning fillings. Everything. And it’s free.
C: (whispers) That’s awesome.
J: And in the last two years, um, we add a construction team because the church is building a new facility for children. This is going to be an hogar, a house for children, little one, and we built this past march, we built one of the unit is going to be a big facility with four or five buildings. We built one in March and we are thinking to go back now in next year, February with another team. Yeah. I go back to Chile. Uh, but always with the, I’m not going to, I’m not going to vacation. We go to serve, to help people.
C: Do you specifically go in March and February for a reason? Is it like the best time…?
J: Um, it, that was the best time for, for Greg,
W: Oh
C: Got it.
J: um, because he have a perfect window of time. Ten days, 12 days. That was the reason.
C: Got it
J: And for the construction team, uh, I’m thinking in February or Mar- March is a good time because there’s no raining.
C: Ohh
W: Hmm
J: Puerto Montt is, if you take away, uh, from the equator line to the south, it’s the same distance from the equator to north. That means it’s going to be Oregon or Washington state.
C: Mmhm
J: That means a lot of rain and the window of time work best for construction is during summer.
C: Got it, I see. So, do you, um, think that any of your views or values, um, about living in the US has changed since you’ve been living here or or did you like have a different view before you moved here?
J: Um, no, I think it’s- (pause) well, let’s see. I moved from, from, uh, Honduras. I always lived in countries of the third world. Coming to the United States, yeah, you find another dynamic. You find another way. Um, uh, for example, Latinos, we are masters of improvisation. Uh, Americans: Planification. Is making plans. We don’t make no plans, but we are very good improvising, um, in coming to this country and put together both. I enriched my life because I’m good in this, but this other thing is good too.
C: Yeah, It’s cool to see how those mesh
W: Interesting.
C: So, so far, what would you view as the happiest or best time in your life?
J: Being with my kids.
C: Anytime, that that is?
J: Uh, yeah, for me is the best, I think. I have three kids. Um, it’s not easy to meet together. Like I said before, the youngest years ago was living in India. Uh, she moved from India, from Kolkata, India to Seattle. Um, later, the oldest who was living in D.C, she moved to Luxembourg.
C: Oh my.
J: and is quite complicated
C: (laughs)
J: to meet together, but when I meet together is, is heaven for me. I love it. I love to be with my kids. I love to be with my grandkids.
C: Mmhm
J: I have um, uh, we have a very good communication with our kids. We talk even when they live very far. We talk almost every day with them. Yeah.
C: That’s great.
J: How many times you talked with your parents?
C: Definitely not as much as that (laughs)
J: No?
C: No.
W: And you?
W: Uh, somewhere in like every three or four days, you know.
J: Yeah
C: Mmhm
W: (I) Just try to do that every day
J: Yeah
W: or something
J: Yeah. Good.
C: It’s probably cause we take for granted how close we are to our family.
W: Yeah, you’re right.
J: Yeah. Okay!
C: (Laughs)
J: Next question.
C: Um, the last question I have is, um, what historical events have had an impact on your life?
J: Say again.
C: What historical events have had an impact on your life? So I think specifics, so you mentioned the hurricane, um in Honduras, that had a big impact. Has anything else had a really big impact on your life?
J: I can think a couple of things. Um, first of all, I think, uh, Jesus Christ for me was really
C: Mmhm
J: impact my, my life. He changed my life completely. He saved my life. Um, 19, 1994, I was in, in Goma in Zaire, Zaire, at that time, during the Rwandan War and visiting some of the feeding camp. That was the most shocking things for me. But at the same time was kind of shaking my life when I saw that reality. Um, see human beings in that condition was, gave me something that I never experienced before. Um, most of these was children. That was the most. Yeah, um, the magnitude of this tragedy was overwhelmed. Uh, at that time in Goma, there was easily a million and a half, maybe more, refugees living in, in, in a poor area. The condition was so extreme in, in everything. Food, water, bathroom, uh, medicine. Um, that was incredible for me. Um, for example, I didn’t know that there was an organization on the world. Not many people know this organization, but this one NGO who work there specific work is to remove bodies from, from the camp
W: Wow.
J: because they need to move (snaps quickly) quick these body because, uh, prevent sickness and other thing. And that, that was, if I think about something that impact my, that that place was, yeah.
C: Wow, that’s crazy. Well, those are all the questions we have for you.
J: Yeah?
C: Yeah. But it was very nice talking to you.
W: Very powerful, yeah
J: Yeah

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Interview with Amy Maca

Interview with Amy Maca

by Nancy Haugh

Amy Maca (pictured in the back right) is a first year, Guatemalan-American student at James Madison University. She’s studying Health Sciences on a Pre-Med track with ambitions to go to medical school at Johns Hopkins University. Ultimately, she’s extremely passionate about providing health care those in need.

Journey to the U.S.

In a subversion of immigrant stereotypes, Amy’s physical journey from Guatemala City, Guatemala to Northern Virginia was a plane ride. In 2005, when Amy was 6 years old, her father realized that he had a calling from God to come to the U.S. and serve the Christian Latinx community there. The family had an uncle living in Northern Virginia who expressed that they would be able to stay with him. However, upon arriving in the U.S., those plans fell through and Amy’s family struggled to establish themselves. Fortunately, they were able to find a strong Christian Latinx community in Northern Virginia.

Early Life

Growing up, Amy imagined the U.S. as full of tall, blonde-haired, blue-eyed people that could all go to Disney World. She credits these misconceptions to being a little spoiled by her relatives with toys from the U.S., and depictions of Americans she saw in the media when she was younger. When she first arrived in the U.S., she describes the difficulty she faced assimilating to American culture. Whereas in Guatemala she didn’t face as much pressure to look or even eat a certain way, in the U.S. it seemed like physical appearance dictated morality. Amy mentions the hardships and anxieties she faced public schools in the U.S., citing that middle and high school were especially hard because it felt like she was never able to establish relationships in one place. In terms of life in Guatemala and historic trends of immigration, Amy was largely not directly effected by the Guatemalan Civil War that lasted from 1960-1996. Her parents on the other hand, did grow up during this time of violence and instability.

Life in Harrisonburg

Amy is the first in her family to attend a university and thus faces the pressures that come with such a title. In her interview, she points to the fact that it was especially hard to move away from her family because of how close they are. Despite this, she knew she wanted to attend JMU and was determined to make it happen. Although she’d like to explore a little more of the town, she’s ultimately proud of how far she’s come in getting to JMU. An active member of LSA, Amy loves being able to hang out with her friends during her breaks between studying.

A Message to Her Younger Self

The interview ends with Amy sending a message to her younger self to live freely and openly without the worrying about the criticisms of others. She vividly remembers disliking features of her own body because they weren’t in line with euro-centric beauty standards. Because of this, she wants her younger self to know that it is ok to exist as she is, just do you!

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From Mexico to Maryland: A UVA Student’s Story

Interview with a UVA student

by Eric Keener

This interview was conducted by Eric Keener with an undergraduate student from the University of Virginia who elected to remain anonymous for the purposes of this project. Both of her parents were born in Mexico. She was born in Mexico City and attended a French private school for her first few years of primary education. Soon after, she immigrated to the United States at the age of seven with her parents, brother, and grandmother. The family primarily left due to safety concerns, and managed to settle in Maryland.

The interviewee’s parents are very well educated, so their entrance into the country was smoothly granted. Upon arriving, her mother began to work in the World Bank, while her father found a position as an energy consultant for a private company. He has worked with corporations as well as the United States government.

The interviewee’s experience in Maryland was quite different from what she had been used to in Mexico. She recalls everything seeming so much more green than her hometown, and she mentioned how grateful she was to feel safe while walking around her neighborhood. Because of her lack of English language knowledge, she did not socialize much with the other neighborhood children at first. This was further exacerbated by the fact that she attended another French private school upon arriving, leaving her out of public education for many years. In order to help her pick up English, her parents sent her to a summer camp primarily populated by English speakers. The experience, while stressful at the time, as she recalled, it made speaking English far easier for her. The fear of making mistakes was practically gone at the end of the experience.

Once the interviewee reached high school, she was switched into a typical American public school. This came with several challenges, including navigating a very different form of curriculum from what she was used to. Her math knowledge was somewhat incomplete for the level of math she tested into, which was Algebra II. This struggle encouraged her greatly to study hard and suceed, and was one of the driving forces that led her to pursue a degree in mathematics. After high school, she managed to gain admittance into the University of Virginia, where she is working to gain her ideal degree in mathematics. In the future, she intends to continue her education into a prestigious Master’s program in mathematics.

The student has previously done much volunteer work, including work at her grandmother’s daycare service in Mexico and the Natural History Museum. The volunteer work at the museum eventually led to a job where she gave tours of the insect exhibit. Insects are one of her loves in life, so this was one of her favorite working experiences. She has also completed undergraduate research in the field of mathematics during the summer, and has mentioned continuing to work in the field on a separate project throughout the fall of 2018. The interviewee also participates heavily in on-campus community organizations, including the Native American Student Union (NASU), American Women in Mathematics, and a Christian organization, Chi Alpha. She also attends events held by the Latinx Student Association, although she had to step down from more responsibilities due to a busy class schedule and campus life.

The student identifies prominently with the Catholic faith. As she explains in the interview, her family certainly holds some from of Christian belief, but they are not particularly devout. Her extended family, however, is much more strict. When visiting, she and her immediate family have to be careful to mind all of the important traditions associated with Catholicism in Mexico.

As a fairly young immigrant, she brings a unique perspective on what it is like to enter contemporary America at a young age. Further, we discuss some current political issues to bring a more holistic perspective into the argument.

Interview: UVA student who immigrated from Mexico

[00:00:02] Eric: The date is October 27th, 2018, and I am here in Charlottesville. The time is 11:30. So, to get started, why don’t you just tell me a little bit about your family?

 

[00:00:12] Interviewee: Umm…I live in the U.S. with my dad, my mom, and my brother. My nanny also came with us. Uh…My brother is 2 years younger than. Umm…He’s currently in high school, which is interesting. (laughing) And, yeah, both of my parents are Mexicans and they were raised there their whole lives.

 

[00:00:42] E: So, um, what kind of drove your parents to come to the U.S.? If you know.

 

[00:00:50] I: Insecurity. Like, um…there was an incident with someone breaking into our house, and stealing- like like trying to get information. And my parents were just worried about like potential kidnappings, of my brother and I because luckily we were in school at the time. Yeah it was just like an unsafe environment, and my parents just wanted to. Get out of the.

 

[00:01:26] E: Seems fair to me. Um, so what time were you born?

 

[00:01:31] I: I was born in Mexico City.

 

[00:01:34] E: Woah, Mexico City. Do you have any memories of it? Or was it too early?

 

[00:01:38] I: Yes! No, I lived there until I was seven. Um, so…not too, not too old, but enough to remember quite a bit. Um…(chuckles) I also go back there twice a year for extended periods to see my family. And…(chuckles) that’s always been interesting (laughing).

 

[00:02:04] E: What kind of family still lives there?

 

[00:02:07] Ah, all of my dad’s family lives in Mexico City. All of my mom’s family lives in, um…Oaxaca, Mexico, which is in the southern part of Mexico.

 

[00:02:20] E: So when you go to visit I take it you visit both branches?

 

[00:02:22] I: Yes, one-hundred percent.

 

[00:02:25] E: Interesting! Um…so where did you first go to school

 

[00:02:33] I: Um…In Mexico? So in Mexico there was a French international school Whose name I honestly cannot recall (laughing). But, I started my schooling there from like pre-K up to…first grade. And so I moved here during second grade. Um…

 

[00:02:58] E: What were your first impressions upon making it to the United States? Did anything seem interesting, kind of stand out, or was it just sort of like, “We’re here”?

 

[00:03:07] I: Um, It’s very different because where I moved in Maryland it’s like very green, and it’s like very safe. Like, it’s just the idea that I can walk by myself and, like, not have to be worried. It’s very…like I have grown used to it, which is something that I am definitely very grateful for. Like, all the time. But it’s definitely not a given. Especially not when I was younger. Um…also TV (laughing). I watched a lot of TV when I was younger, and the fact that, when I got here, I didn’t know English, and like I could literally not understand what they were saying was very interesting.

 

[00:03:59] E: So, when you first came here, uh, what kind of school did you go to?

 

[00:04:04] I: I, uh, transferred to a French school in, uh, Maryland because my parents were worried about me going into an American school. Um…and that’s where I stayed…until the end of middle school.

 

[00:04:23] E: So with English, were you explicitly taught it in school, did you pick it up as you went along? How did that work?

 

[00:04:29] I: So technically our school did offer English classes, but the main priority was French classes so you only had English like once or twice a week for maybe an hour. I mostly picked it up because my parents (chuckles) put me in a summer camp with only English speakers. And they were like: (claps) go! (laughing)

 

[00:04:55] E: (Amused) That sounds interesting. Tell me about that experience.

 

[00:04:59] I: (Laughing) It’s more like, if you want to make friends, you gotta pick some stuff up (laughing). Um…And, obviously, my English was not…amazing after that, but it definitely got me to, um, to get out of my comfort zone and like to speak to other people. Um, So I grew very comfortable with English after that because it was like…once, once you go through that, you’re not really afraid of making mistakes anymore, cause you’re like (gesturing and laughter).

 

[00:05:42] E: That’s really cool. Um, so when you first move to the U.S., Describe the neighborhood. What was it like?

 

[00:05:50] I: Oh,um, it’s still the same neighborhood where my parents are still living in. And it’s changed…a bit in the last few,um, in the last few years. Um…I- since I went to the French school, which was a private school, I didn’t really know most of my neighbors at the time or like most of the people in my neighborhood. But, again, it’s like…a very green space with like a lot of like really friendly people. Actually when I first moved in, our neighbors came by and like dropped off brownies, and my parents and I were really freaked out (laughing). Uh, we were like, “Who are these people and why are they talking to us?” Um…so we didn’t talk to them for a couple of months (laughing). But, I Actually- I actually really appreciate them. They’re quite funny. But, Yeah.

 

[00:06:49] E: That’s really cool. Are there any neighbors in your head that kind of stick out as notable?

 

[00:06:58] Well, them, uh…quite frankly because…it’s different. Like you do know your neighbors back in Mexico, but um…it’s not. I mean, also I can’t make generalizations of every single neighborhood. But, in my experience, people don’t tend to like, have their neighbors over for dinner or like, go do stuff with their neighbors or community…like, just like a good sense of community, where you let people inside of your house just because they live next to you, you know. Um…I think that like has to be built on for a very long time before you have access to somebody’s house. Um, Like you can enter. But…that was like very different when we first moved in, where our neighbors were like, “Oh you want to come have dinner, you wanna, like do you want to play, like, basketball together?” You know? It was…very odd. Yeah I don’t- again, I didn’t really talk to most of
my neighbors when I first moved in because I didn’t go to school with our neighborhood kids or like, any of that.

 

[00:08:26] E: (Aside) Alrighty. Um, so when your parents first made it here, what jobs did they pick up?

 

[00:08:32] Um, well my mom, ah, was in the world bank and she still is. So she was able to transfer quite easily. My father used to work at um…at like this, like- He’s also an economist- but, um, it was like this governmental, like it’s not, like, in the government, but it works strongly with the government. It’s like a corporation on oil and energy resources, but when he moved here, like, he like let that go in order to like get us safely, you know. Um…and so, for a while it was like…kind of uncertain. So he started like working for this one company. But…yeah so like it was um, for a while it was like, not super stable, but then it got better.

 

[00:09:31] E: So that means your parents are pretty well educated upon arriving?

 

[00:09:39] I: Yes, yes.

 

[00:09:44] E: Um, alright. So, is religion a big part of the household?

 

[00:09:52] I: (Chuckles) Um, ah, not entirely. Mmm…both of my parents’ families are very religious, but my parents are not as much. So, if we are with the rest of our family, it’s like, very strict (laughing) like what you can and cannot say, but…like within my household, in Maryland, it’s, um….it’s a good time. (Laughing) They definitely encouraged me to like, look into religion and they um, they did go with us to…to mass on Sundays. Um, but they didn’t really push a belief on us, which is something that I appreciate, and has helped me like, make my own decisions about God which is very important. I think in faith like you have to believe. Somebody can’t believe for you.

 

[00:11:04] E: So do you identify with any specific denomination or just a believer?

 

[00:11:08] No, I am…I am definitely Catholic. Um, I’m part of a Christian group here on grounds which is like non-denominational, which has been a very interesting um…experience. Because…I- I had interacted with like, Catholics but also, there was a
lot of Jewish people in my neighborhood. And there was like- and I knew like a fair amount of people in Islam. But um…not other, like, Christians (laughing). Uh…and, yeah, I think it’s been good for me to like…learn about that, uh, cause if you don’t, like, there’s a lot of preconceptions if you don’t have education. So I’m glad for the knowledge.

 

[00:12:10] E: How’d you get involved with the group?

 

[00:12:16] I: My roommate (laughing). Honestly, I thought I was joining- like I- I was not going to join a religious group on grounds because I’d had, like, my own conflicts with religion, um…prior to coming to UVA. And…(chuckles) my roommate was very involved with this Christian organization. And she never like, pressured me to join, by any means. She did extended an invitation to another event and I decided to go, to make her happy mostly. And, um…I really liked it. Honestly, I thought- I thought there were all Catholics (laughing) when I first joined. But…yeah. That was not the case (laughing).

 

[00:13:19] E: Let’s go to some working and volunteering. What have you done in that regards?

 

[00:13:25] I: What do you define as working?

 

[00:13:27] E: Um, any kind of job. Something like that, something you did for an organization or whatever.

 

[00:13:33] I: During university or like in my life?

 

[00:13:36] E: In your life.

 

[00:13:37] I: Oh, okay, cool. Um, (under breath) where do I start? I…the first real job that I had was in high school, where I worked as a paid intern at the Natural History Museum, uh, mostly doing bug stuff (laughing). But, you know, like talking to people and visitors and just explaining a lot of specimens that we had and…just promoting knowledge, which is very important for me. I have done a lot of volunteering in the past. I think the first real volunteer experience that I had was, so my grandma, she, back like in Oaxaca, she and some of her friends started a children’s shelter for, like, children
who are…who the state doesn’t deem it, like, to be safe for them to stay in their households either because their parents are abusive or the families like too poor to actually take care of them, uh, correctly. Which is why it’s completely voluntary like they don’t, like, um…like there is an agreement, if the parents are alive, for them to stay there. And…I, uh, I would tutor the students there from- from everywhere in their elementary school. Um…and just like talk to them and play, because oftentimes I think people tend to forget that they’re still kids and that they still…they’ve gone through like some pretty rough things. But it’s important for them to still feel like normal kids, because their circumstances doesn’t…doesn’t dictate what they can be. Although it does heavily influence, but…that is a society issue not them. Um, And so I was very involved in volunteering all through middle school and high school, um, in organizations…like feeding the homeless, or I volunteered at the Natural History before I got my job. Um, I…picked up trash in a river once which is super interesting because then, like, you find out what people threw in the river and you’re like “I’m sorry, what?” One of the best days of my life (laughing). Clearly. Um, then the REU we did over the summer, and I’m currently working as a research assistant for one of the professors at UVA. Um…Yeah.

 

[00:17:04] E: That’s a good place to transition. So you’re attending UVA right now.

 

[00:17:11] I: Yes.

 

[00:17:12] E: Why did you choose it?

 

[00:17:19] I: That’s a fair question. I think, mostly because- I have known that I wanted to be a math, um, major, since I was in ninth grade. Um, and so one of the…and so I definitely wanted to go to Grad School for Mathematics and get a Ph.D. in that area. And one of the benefits of attending UVA is that there is a lot of, uh, help in that regard. There’s like five different majors within the math department, like different concentrations, right. And one of them is graduate preparation which, um, does put a little bit more emphasis in the classes that you should take before attending grad school. And if you have the- like if you are done with all of your requirements, then it’s kind- like before you have to graduate- then it’s heavily, um…recommended that you take Grad classes, which is something that is offered here, and that I, in the foreseeable future, hope to do. So, yes, mostly because of their concentration, their, uh, dedication to help promote their students to graduate school in mathematics.

 

[00:19:04] E: That’s good reasons. So you mentioned that since you were a freshman you wanted to be a math major. What inspired that?

 

[00:19:12] I: Um, When I first transferred from the French system to the American system like the first grade that I attended in the American system was, uh, ninth grade. I think I kind of hit a low in regards to my math schooling because I had to test into, like, my math class. Um…and so I studied for like a week trying to get all of the Algebra 1 and geometry curriculums down because the curriculum in the French school, in regards to everything including math, is very different than that of the American school. Um…So I technically hadn’t finished Algebra 1 nor geometry because they were done around, like, at the same time. Um…and so…but I wanted to see in Algebra 2 in ninth grade. So I studied in order to get there, and I did. But once I was actually in algebra 2, there was a lot that I didn’t know that…I needed to know in order to understand some of the, um…material that has been taught to us. And I think that was kind of a low in the sense that I was putting a lot of work in, but it was still very frustrating to not understand everything that everyone did simply because of my, uh…lack knowledge. But, it’s then when I realized that, despite the fact that I was, like, clocking in three or four times the hours that the other- uh, my other classmates were, I still really liked mathematics. And…It wasn’t necessarily that I loved it ’cause of the prestige it got me, because I obviously wasn’t understanding it as well as some other people, and it wasn’t that I found it easy so that’s why I liked it. I just- I liked the way things worked, and I honestly couldn’t have seen myself doing anything but that.

 

[00:21:42] E: That’s Really cool. So on campus, What kind of organizations are involved in?

 

[00:21:53] I: So that’s…So at the beginning of the school year, I was involved with a lot more, but I had to- I had to step down because of my classwork and because of…how I was more involved with some organizations. Like, I am vice president of the Native American Student Union which- which means I have to be attending a lot of meetings every two, three days. So that definitely takes away from a lot of time that I would spend on other organizations last year. I’m also, um, exec for American Women in Mathematics, which implies that I have two meetings and work on other stuff, which I’ve been slacking honestly, but (laughing), you know? And I’m part of, um, Chi Alpha, which
is a Christian organization, and that also takes quite a bit of time. Um…as part of my duties in NASU, Native American Student Union, I have to be involved in the MRC, which…I can remember exactly what it stands for but it’s like the minority coalition group. So, I have to be involved in their council, uh, ’cause we all like to get together and we talk about different things that are going on in the university. Um, and those are really my main involvements because I’ve had to step away from the other things while I get every- because I don’t believe in, um…not doing your best in what you’re currently doing. So I didn’t want to…take away the seat of somebody else in the other organizations that I used to be in knowing that I couldn’t commit as much time as somebody else could. But I used to be involved in LSA because we used to have a committee that I was in, but then, like, things got restructured, which is fine (laughing). Um, I still participate in some of their events, but I wouldn’t say that I’m…I’m not part of an, an executive board, which is very similar to a lot of the other LSA, um…organizations that I’m- I don’t consider myself part of, since I’m not in the decision making. But, we all have like a group chat and when there is an event that…needs help, and it’s something that I strongly believe in, I usually go and show my support. But yeah.

 

[00:24:53] E: And, uh, just to clarify the LSA is, uh…

 

[00:24:57] I: Latinx Student Association or Alliance. I’m not sure.

 

[00:25:02] E: Uh Busyschedule, busy schedule. So after you’re done with your education, what are your career goals?

 

[00:25:13] I: Oh my gosh. Um…honestly, I’m not quite sure, uh, given that I definitely want to study a Ph.D. in mathematics, but I personally couldn’t see myself as a teacher, nor as a professor, because I think those two are very challenging, um, in- in ways that are not necessarily my forte. Um, I personally…one of the things with being a math professor is that you have to…your research could take years, and you still couldn’t come up with- like, you might still not come up with a result. Um, and I feel like I need more immediate gratification than that (laughing), because it takes very specific type of people to be able to, like, bang your head against a wall constantly and still keep going. Um…so I’m not quite sure, but I’m still making my mind up.

 

[00:26:33] E: One last question about the university. What do you think about the campus? Are the people friendly, competitive?

 

[00:26:43] That’s a very complex question considering the amount of people that there is at UVA, like, just within my different social groups. Um, the people in each are very different to each other and have different priorities. Um…I would say that I’ve met good people and I’ve met not-so-good people (laughing). As in…I knew where you could go. Um, Unfortunately, I think, um, some of the not so good people seem to have a bigger voice than the general population, who is either neutral or like pro, uh…humanity, I’d like to say (laughing). Although neutral is not necessarily, like, the best stance on that point, but it is the truth. That’s definitely something that…I, Would hope, change Yeah, it’s- there’s good people and bad people everywhere (laughing).

 

[00:28:13] E: Fair, very true. To transition to our last little part, here, um, what are your opinions on the U.S. political climate right now?

 

[00:28:26] I: Um, I think a lot of things are oversimplified, in the sense that…I think media plays a big part in that. That, things have to be spoon fed to the public, and I am, um…I’m not above that, either. I will gladly admit that, at times, I tend to not do my own research, and it is just convenient to read the first article, um, instead of like looking into various. Um, but I do think that’s something that affects dearly what is going on, currently, in the U.S., and everywhere, if we’re being honest. There’s like a very…It’s…it seems like people, ah…think that, since some other people who are more influential are able to say whatever they want, that, that is their god-given right as well, instead of holding others to higher standards, um, and just trying to care for their fellow neighbors. Um…It’s, um, basically, I think a lot of people have been slacking off in, um, in doing their own research and that that also includes only reading things that correspond with your own political ideals. and… fact that, in the U.S., there’s only- there’s really only two main parties, is very much an issue because any issue should have more than two options. Uh, because there’s a lot of intersectionality with everything really. For example, If you have, um, a lot of the environmental issues mostly affect minority races because they’re not able to move away from the situations or they don’t have as big as a, like, a these things happen. And that also goes along with education, like if you’re in a place people don’t want maybe that place also, like, have the best education system,
and it’s just a very big cycle. Um, and people have to realize that any decision that you make will affect something else.

 

[00:31:26] E: Yeah, that’s very true. Um…what’s your opinion on this rising kind of anti-immigration sentiment? Is it…

 

[00:31:36] I: Um…I think it’s…very dehumanizing, uh…because, I think, since a lot of things have- a lot of hatred, um….has come about this issue and this unders– like not really understanding where people are coming from, but also the fact that people who seem to understand also…don’t want to, like, listen to people who don’t understand and they don’t want to listen to- there’s a very big breach of communication between…between both sides of the political system. And I think that has harmed very much the immigration policies because it’s no longer seen as people. It’s more seen like a political issue. And, it’s like, “Oh, no, we’re just debating about ideas.” We’re not debating as whether people should not be locked up in camps (laughing). Because these are real people who have real families, and even if they didn’t have families, they’re still people, and they should be treated as such. I think it’s less of a question about the immigration system as much as a question of…how unempathetic are we as a society in regards to, like, and it’s not just how unempathetic are we to immigrants, but how unempathetic are we to people who don’t understand the immigration problem we’re just like, “Oh, you’re just too dumb to understand.” That’s also very dehumanizing because not everyone has the same access to resources and understanding, uh, which by no means means that everyone who does understand must, um…is expected to teach others. You are a person. You have the right to live as you wish, you know? But…it’s two sides of the same coin. If you want respect, you must give respect. And, right now, I don’t really see either side doing that, and the immigration problem is just caught in the crossfires.

 

[00:34:34] E: That’s a very good perspective, I like that. I guess…that about draws down. One last thing about politics: the, uh, DACA. How do you feel about that?

 

[00:34:54] I: Honestly…DACA was only a temporary solution, like, even from when it first was, um…written into law. It was only supposed to be used as a means to get these people to more…stable conditions, and, in that sense, I think that it’s good that it was taken away. But it should have been taken away with, um, without leaving people in
limbo, right, and with providing people with actual opportunities who have contributed to the American society without, even like- ‘cause DACA, recipients, right, it was either people who- it’d been people who lived here their, like whole life, basically- and who had either…who were either studying or working. So they were definitely people who were contributing to the American economy and society. And, even if they weren’t, they’re still people, like- you still deserved to be treated as such and not be treated as…illegal, because that…makes no sense. Like, how can a person be illegal? Like, perhaps your status is, but that does not define you as a person. Uh, and I think that that’s also something that’s happened a lot in our political climate, like labeling. Um…and just reducing someone to one word. And, really, the only word that should matter is that you’re human. But apparently, that’s not enough. Um…so, I think that, yes, DACA has been essentially taken away, but I think that that’s also an opportunity to provide people with a more stable, uh…situation to stay here in the U.S. where they’ve contributed to society and could have their own families but definitely have their own communities.

 

[00:37:30] E: That’s a really nice thought. That’s about the end of this. Are there any closing remarks you’d like to make? Something you’d like the people to know?

 

[00:37:39] I: I think that people should be involved in all of these issues that we’ve talked about, regardless of whether you have…whether you’re part of Latinx community. Um…’cause this is, at the end of the day, like, a people issue, not one section, “I am this by blood so I have the right to speak about this.” Um, so, just empathy and involvement in the political climate regardless of who you are or which community you belong to. It’s more about treating others as humans and not about treating them as a label and a stereotype.

 

[00:38:33] E: That’s a very nice sentiment. So, that’ll be the end of this, so, thank you so much for your time.

 

[00:38:37] I: Yes, thank you.

 

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Jose Carlos Ramos

Interview with Jose Carlos Ramos

by Cortni Potts and Megan Bennett

Jose Carlos Ramos

By Cortni Potts and Megan Bennett

My partner and I interviewed Jose Carlos Ramos to discover his story of where he came from, how he got to the United States, specifically Harrisonburg, and why. Carlos is from El Salvador and came to the U.S. in 1999. He went to university in El Salvador studying medicine, public relations, and even some English. He was one-year shy of graduating when his father had Carlos leave the country and its poor economic situation to instead go work with some people his father knew with jobs in America. He entered the United States illegally by the underneath of a truck, but now holds a legal status through the Temporary Protected Status (TPS) given to El Salvador from the United States government. Carlos first received this status two years after he entered the U.S. and still holds it today.

Harrisonburg has been Carlos’s home here in America the entire 19 years he has been here. He has worked in the poultry industry in Harrisonburg for the entire duration of that time as well. Currently Carlos owns a home here and has two children in school, one of which is his daughter who was born here in America, therefore making her an American citizen. This is a current concern for him as his TPS status is currently being threatened, and if it is revoked Carlos would be deported. Carlos is very active in the local and national politics and very much loves the “marvelous city” of Harrisonburg. He was wonderful to meet and interview, and my partner and I certainly learned many interesting things about him and his life, and even some about our country’s immigration policies.

Methods

Before meeting Carlos, we knew that his English was not the best. I myself (Megan) am a Spanish major and consider myself decent at understanding and speaking Spanish. This was still a difficulty to consider since my Spanish is nowhere near perfect and my partner (Cortni) only had a basic knowledge. We received Carlos’s contact information in class one day and were only given a phone number. The first time I tried to call Carlos, I must have caught him at work because on the other end I heard a faint “hola” and then distant chatter and a lot of background noise. I tried to talk and ask if this was Carlos and explain why I was calling, but I was receiving no answer. After about two minutes of hearing people in the background speaking Spanish and having no one answer me, I hung up. Trying the next day instead I was able to actually reach Carlos and set up a time for the interview. He was very excited to do it and had been expecting to hear from someone in “David’s class.” We were able to set up the interview for the next day, November 7, 2018, at his house at 6PM.

Cortni and I met up a little early the next day to make sure we knew how to work the recording device. Once figuring it out we headed over to Carlos’s to do the interview. Carlos greeted us at the door and after introductions led us to the kitchen. We sat down at the kitchen table and had Carlos sign our agreement form given to us by our teacher to assure that Carlos was okay with being recorded and having this interview posted online to the website. As he did this Cortni and I set up the recording device and made sure to turn it on and see that all the audio levels were reading correctly. The interview itself went pretty smoothly. For the most part we did the interview in English, but there were words that Carlos didn’t know and some questions we asked that he didn’t understand at first. If he didn’t know a word, I attempted to understand what he was trying to say and see if I knew the word. If he didn’t understand our question, I asked it to him in Spanish, which we came prepared with the translations. His daughter did come in towards the end to sit with us, but it did not affect the interview. Overall there were no complications.

A small issue Cortni and I did run into was transcribing our interview as there were times where what Carlos was saying was unintelligible or neither of us understood the word he was trying to use. These spaces are marked as [unintelligible.]

Departure and settlement

Carlos left El Salvador in 1999, shortly after the Civil Wars ended. Along with the damage from the civil wars, El Salvador also experienced two earthquakes that pushed people including Carlos from the county and toward the United States with the hope to gain temporary protected status (TPS). Carlos explains that the economy of El Salvador after the war was “down,” “crime [was] up,” and “poor [was] up,” all of which contributed to his personal motivation to the leave the country. Another major motivation for Carlos to leave El Salvador was “The problem is the business of my father is down right. No have money and I had to take the position to go a United States, immigrate the United States right.” His father being in the fabric industry provided him with a network that Carlos could use in his advantage to immigrate to the United States. Carlos describes his father engaging in these networks by asking

“help me, I need my son to go a United States and immigration. My business is down, I don’t have more money and I need more better future for my son. And these people they say okay, no problem. You send your son I receive here in Harrisonburg Virginia.”

As Massey describes in the section titled “the social organization of migration,” networks play a critical role in the immigration process. Massey identifies three types of networks, one of them being friendships. Carlos’ father utilizes his friendships with immigrants in the United States by asking for support and guidance. Massey describes that “shared experiences create a disposition to exchange favors and provide mutual assistance that benefits both parties in the long run,”(Massey). We see this in the friends’ invitation for Carlos to come to Harrisonburg. Carlos continues to build on these networks as the friends whom “in the similar situation, have no paper” help him since he does not have family in Virginia and does not know anyone else. Carlos was able to continue the friendships and these networks because, as Massey explains, “a series of common experiences, customs, and traditions… permits easy communication and friendship formation,” (Massey).  

Crossing the border illegally, Carlos entered the United States in Phoenix, Arizona. He crossed the border hidden in a tractor trailer, describing the experience as

“the border de (of) immigration you look and it look nothing right, and the deposit is down the floor de (of) the trailer. In this situation I go.”

Once in the United States, Carlos made his way to Harrisonburg, VA where he settled down and has been ever since. He recalls that during his first day in the United States, he “cried” and for the first three months he “only watch[ed] T.V,” as he waited to receive his TPS. The process of assimilating into the United States, Carlos describes as “mental work.” With help from the people whom his father knew and the general community of Harrisonburg, Carlos was able to find his place and begin his new life. He compares Harrisonburg from when he first arrived to how it is now, saying that before there were only two Hispanic stores and now there are “maybe ten or fifteen.” Another change the he describes is the employment opportunities for Hispanic people, saying “they work in different businesses. Example, restaurant and example gas station and example and cleaning, medical cleaning. Before it’s not like nothing.” Regarding his own employment, he began working in the poultry industry since 1999, when he first arrived in Harrisonburg. When asked about the industry, he pointed out scars on his hands as a result of the taxing duties the job entails. He also shares a story conveying the working conditions.

“I had example no have time, example I need to go in the bathroom, el bano, say hey buddy you taking my position? No, I need [unintelligible] maybe one people, no, no, no, not in position, [unintelligible] , you say hey please I need break okay five minutes or two minutes. In two minutes to go to the bathroom. I said pee pee and come back. Right.”

These same harsh working conditions can also be seen in other poultry and agriculture plants around the United States. Workers in the Case Farms chicken plant in Canton, Ohio share experiences such as being disciplined for “leaving the line to use the bathroom, even though [the worker] was seven months pregnant,” (Garbell, 2018) Workers in the poultry industry also experience “carpal-tunnel syndrome at nearly twenty times the rate of workers in other industries,” (Garbell, 2018).  

Carlos still works in the poultry industry as a means to supporting his family and creating a future for his children. He explains how within six months of settling in Harrisonburg he bought his own house and explains how easy it was for him to purchase a car given his good record and ability to provide a down payment. He credits this opportunity to the idea that “the dealer, the restaurant they all tell the business no look in the people, oh no these people is immigrant, no, they look at the money.”

Attitude

It was easy to tell that Carlos loves Harrisonburg. When asked about how he felt received by the community he mentioned things such as “this city is the special city,” “it’s marvelous city, the people is marvelous people,” “the people muy carinoso (very caring),” and “here in Harrisonburg I repeat, the beautiful, the beautiful city.” When looking at the context of reception for Carlos, he seems to describe that the people were very welcoming to him from the very beginning. Of course, assimilation has gotten easier over the years, and the town has become more receptive as well. Since he has been here 19 years, he has seen the city change and adapt to the increasing immigrant population. He notes how he has seen more Hispanic shops and restaurants pop up, even how the roads have changed. His daughter’s school has created the first Hispanic dancing group which for him was a really big deal. This all shows how the town has adapted to its increasing immigrant community in order to better receive them and help with the assimilation process.

When describing his life in general at this moment, he said, “it’s, this state in my life is beautiful, I’m talking to other people. I have the real situation, the immigrants and the American people.” It was very sweet to see how much Carlos loves and appreciates his city as well as how involved in the community he is. Carlos does have some strong opinions on local and national politics, specifically focused on immigration, of course. But he uses this as a way to be more involved in the community. He told us about he and his daughter watched the presidential election together, and even followed the more recent midterm election. This is helping his daughter, who is considered a second generation, assimilate into the community as well.

Conclusion

Carlos’ story of immigrating to the United States conveys the stereotypical immigration story of coming to the United States in hopes to find opportunities leading to financial security, influenced by personal factors. The network system created by his father lead Carlos to Harrisonburg, Virginia. Where the demand for workers in the poultry industry provided him a source of income that he still depends on to this day. Although this line of work is demanding, Carlos appreciates the opportunity as it keeps in Harrisonburg where he can influence the community through political advocacy specifically regarding TPS. Carlos continues his active engagement in TPS as he fights for a better future for immigrants and his family.

 

Works cited

Grabell, M. (2017, May 8). Exploitation and Abuse at the Chicken Plant. The New Yorker. Retrieved from https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/05/08/exploitation-and-abuse-at-the-chicken-plant  

Massey, D. The Social Organization of Migration.  

Interview with Jose Carlos Ramos

By Cortni Potts and Megan Bennett

November 7, 2018 at 6 PM

MEGAN

So you’re from el Salvador

CARLOS

Yes, my country is el Salvador

MEGAN

So obviously you were born there what was the country like when you were born

CARLOS

Alright and I born in February 26 de (of) 1972 and the city is San Salvador City the capital del Salvador. My family no is de (from) capital del Salvador, my family is de (from) San Miguel City the problema (problem) de (of) San Miguel is the city that we vacation in [unintelligible] del Salvador y (and) this area is very hot, right, and the weather is very hot maybe the weather is the 40, 38 degrees Fahrenheit every time. It’s the place that my city and it is dedication a agriculture, and the corn, maiz (corn), cotton, coffee, café (coffee), and cane, sugar cane, cane azucar (sugar). It’s the [unintelligible] the problem is, this area the people the majority of people is poor, es pobre (poor), right. The majority of people poor is the area rural in the country, in el campo (country). Is that most people poor. And the city and living the people in the middle position, right, professional, doctor, and the different professionals in the city in San Miguel City. [unintelligible] the different eating, clothes, ropa (ropa), food, comida (food), and restaurant. The different area de economy, right. My infant is regular right like the play and the different play in my country and I like the soccer, right, play the soccer. Play the soccer in the area in the street in the front of my house, my neighbor and all the children and the had the group, two teams and play the game, the soccer, right. I study in my college in catholic college, right, in the catholic college. My high school in el Salvador [unintelligible] is the institute de (of) commerce de (of) San Miguel. I had my title, I don’t know my titulo (title), the, my high school, high school…

MEGAN

Diploma

CARLOS

Diploma, right, diploma. And in the area natural ciencias (natural science). I don’t know, it’s the [unintelligible] in my life is studying in university right, and I’d been studying medicine, three years, well situation de (of) economic and situation de (of) war in my country, I can’t continue study medicine. And it’s necessary to take position at change other city and the capital San Salvador City and I begin other professional and de (of) relation public. Relation public I study 4 years, right, well the situation economic that my country, I no can’t continue right. My country the problem is that the 1918, 1992, had twelve years, wars, civil wars right. The civil war maybe die 75,000 people right, in el Salvador, right. I don’t know it’s…

MEGAN

So, you studied at university in el Salvador

CARLOS

In el Salvador yes. My English my little English is working now here its studying in el Salvador and received the different model the English, English 1, English 2, English 3, the professional English and the problem is the practice okay in el Salvador no have people to practice the English, right. It’s very different only the English is very grammatical right.

MEGAN

So, when did you come to the United States

CARLOS

The United States I come here um 1999, right

MEGAN

So, after the civil wars

CARLOS

Yes in el Salvador. In el Salvador here. The question is, the 1999 a (to) 2001, I no have paper, yea, I illegal, right, okay. TPS is the program that the government and the disaster, natural disaster, and war and all this situation, in my country, Mr. President George Bush give the TPS el Salvador and el Salvador had two earthquakes, terremotos (earthquakes), earthquakes. The situation, the earthquake, hit [unintelligible] sign the TPS to el Salvador right. The beneficiary el Salvador. De (from) 2001 and this day, I had legal paper in the United States, right. And here the United States, I live in 1999 right, and in 2001 I have the position legal. For 2 year, no have paper. De (from) 2001 a (to) this day, I have the paper, right.

MEGAN

So, what was it like crossing the border without papers? And why did you come up without papers? Como cruzo la frontera? (How did you cross the border?)

CARLOS

Oh okay, the crossing the border had the different [unintelligible] right and the maybe the [unintelligible] maybe crossing in trailer, right, the trailer had the compartment, [unintelligible], I don’t know English, is separate the border de immigration you look and it look nothing right, and the deposit is down the floor de (of) the trailer. In this situation I go.

MEGAN

In the bottom of the trailer

CARLOS

Yea

MEGAN

Okay

CARLOS

In my port of entrance is Phoenix Arizona

MEGAN

Phoenix Arizona, oh okay. So it was after la Guerra Civil (civil war) in el Salvador, so why did you decide to leave in 1999 from el Salvador?

CARLOS

My first city here that I stay or…

MEGAN

Por qué sale el salvador en 1999 por los Estados Unidos? (Why did you leave El Salvador in 1999 for the United States?)

CARLOS

Okay, yes, um, my country had twenty year the war, right. They had finish the war, the economy de (of) my country is down, right. No war, criminal up, the poor up, right. The situation de (of) opportunity de (of) war in this town is not good, right. Um, in this time in this 1999, 1998, is the first years that [unintelligible] de (of) original is the los Angeles California. These people de (of) Angeles California deportation del Salvador y these people trainer old people young right. These people young no living only they living they grandfather or grandmother, why? Because the father and the mother immigration the United States the situation de (of) economic situation. No have money a (to) eating, no have money a (to) study, no have money vestir (to dress)

MEGAN

Clothes, ropas (clothes)

CARLOS

Is very [unintelligible] the problem in my country. My situation is the similar situation. I study in el Salvador and I no have maybe the level [unintelligible] my level in the country is middle, middle level right. The problem is the business of my father is down right. No have money and I had to take the position to go a United States, immigrate the United States right.

MEGAN

Did you know anyone in the United States? ¿Conozco alguien en los Estados Unidos? (Did you know anyone in the United States?)

CARLOS

Yes, in the prior de (from) my father right. My father is administration de (of) fabric. The construction de (of) material de (of) construction in el Salvador. In the area outside the city de (of) San Miguel City. And this area had the different people that live in this area, right. And cerca de (close to) fabrics, the construction. These people immigrate here in the United States maybe 1994, 1995, right. My father talk on these people, say help me, I need my son to go a United States and immigration. My business is down, I don’t have more money and I need more better future for my son. And these people they say okay, no problem. You send your son I receive here in Harrisonburg Virginia. And these people is in the similar situation no have paper, illegal right. These people working in different plants and example, Rockingham corporation, and the Wampler. Now its different name [unintelligible] and the Wampler today the name is VVEC, the corporation right. These people working in this plant, right, illegal, right. These people help me and I know, in this city I no have nothing family. In this area Virginia, I no have nothing family. My family live in Texas and New York. Only I here. My first day here in United States is very [unintelligible] I cry right. Although my preparation no is the physical work okay no mental work. Example, ustedes (you all), your preparation is mental work, right. No is physical work. Y (and) is a big change for me, right. I’m trying my TPS. I wait my social security, I waive my [unintelligible] three months, no work. Only watch TV, [unintelligible] the people that receive the document, they work is very strong. Other situation is, example, the people the other country, el Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, no have more option, right. No have the option to study. No have the option to help the government, right. Only work y (and) work y (and) work right. Example, now, American people had to question, Carlos, you continue to study, no continue to study. My pride in this time is work no is study. It’s a big problem in the immigrant right. Example I, I had my four years, one year more y (and) graduate [unintelligible] Seattle and relation public. And for me it’s the psychological, this time is the big change right. Example I understand that only the study the university gets study in the university old people they say oh its easy, oh its easy. It’s mental preparation, it’s mental. the people no understand the situation, right.

CORTNI

So how did you, you said when you first came to the United States you were in Arizona, how was kind of the like transition from going to Arizona and ending up in Harrisonburg?

CARLOS

The travel?

MEGAN

Yea, de Phoenix Arizona a Harrisonburg, como era la… (From Phoenix Arizona to Harrisonburg, how was the…)

CARLOS

Transportation?

MEGAN

Si

CARLOS

Ah, in this, in 1999, no is problematic, the transport, right. Maybe getting home, maybe the flyer right, no problem. The problem in New York, the [unintelligible] center is more hard transportation de immigrant right. I need more document, I need ID, I need passport, and last time I go, it’s easy right. Maybe you buy the coupon a (to) go to Harrisonburg, I don’t know, maybe you remember before the [unintelligible] have the terminal here in Harrisonburg, now no. Before right, transportation [unintelligible] pass right, the boleto (ticket), here in Harrisonburg transportation.

MEGAN

Por que Harrisburg? Conoce alguien o hay trabajar, de Phoenix Arizona (Why Harrisonburg? Did you know someone or was there work? From Phoenix Arizona…), so why, how did you end up in Harrisonburg?

CARLOS

Harrisonburg, my decision de (of) transportation de (of) Harrisonburg I have a friend de (from) my father, right. There more opportunity Harrisonburg to work, right. This area, the big city is a small city, right. It’s less control the people. More work, no have distraction, no have example, casinos, no have party, no have the different situation, bar, the other big city, right. I look in the city in the first day and I say, oh I like it, the city. Its [unintelligible] problem, have work, right, y (and) I like it, the city. The other situation is I like it okay the city, its similar el Salvador right, it’s similar mountain and the rural country, it’s similar right. Only no similar is the weather (laughter).

MEGAN

So, you’ve been in Harrisonburg since 1999?

CARLOS

Yea, 1999 and 2000 we came here in the United States and we stay here, October de (of) 1999, pero (but), I repeat, de (from) 1999 a (to) 2001 the position is illegal, right. De (as of) 2001, I had the TPS right. The problem is, example, other interview they say, hey, Carlos how many time you live here in the United States. I live here 17 year in legal position with TPS. In the really, I here 19 years, right. In legal position I here 17 years. I don’t know you trying to take it, you trying to take it in 2001, you trying to take it in 1999, I don’t know.

CORTNI

How when you first came to Harrisonburg, how do you think the city kind of like received you, and has that like changed since you lived here a lot more years now?

MEGAN

¿Cómo siente recibido para la comunidad de 1999 o ahora? (How did you feel received by the community in 1999 or now?)

CARLOS

Oh okay, this city is the special city, right. I like it. It’s marvelous city, the people is marvelous people and the first day, the first year here in the United States, I no have American friends, right. Now, I have found the different [unintelligible] the benefits of community I’m talking of all the people American. Example, in [unintelligible] fathers and school de (of) my daughter and it’s [unintelligible] elementary school. It’s the first Hispanic group, it’s the first dancing group, it’s [unintelligible] right. For me, it’s marvelous right. Now have example, the TPS and have the national TPS [unintelligible] right. It’s, this state in my life is beautiful, I’m talking to other people. I have the real situation, the immigrants and the American people. Example, this interview is the [unintelligible] for you and for you and for me, right, why? You say, hey, I listen and then you [unintelligible] to these people, right. He is criminal he is [unintelligible] only bad situation. In the real, anyway, any group have bad people y good people. And the people in Harrisonburg like it, right. It’s the people muy carinoso (very caring), and the people muy (very) [unintelligible], amigos (friends), friendly city. In this area right, yea I like it.

MEGAN

What was the Hispanic community like in Harrisonburg like in 1999? La comunidad hispánico en (the community in) Harrisonburg in 1999 versus now.

CARLOS

Oh, it’s very, very big change. I remember here in Harrisonburg only have two market Hispanic, tiendas hispaña (Hispanic stores), only two. One [unintelligible] in the 11 route [unintelligible] y (and) the other is near the 11 route [unintelligible] y (and) only two market Hispanic. Now, maybe ten or fifteen and Harrisonburg market only the food mart, example, the food mart is for sell the eating product Hispanic. Before, nothing was out. Others market I remember any time buyer [unintelligible] Hispanic say chino. And then…

MEGAN

Oriental Café

CARLOS

Yea, Oriental Cafe. You see the market is very small, in this area you buy example cookie del Salvador and candy del Salvador, coffee del Salvador, different product del Salvador right. Other big change example, the people, they work in different business. Example, restaurant and example gas station and example and cleaning, medical cleaning. Before it’s not like nothing. And now you, I remember example, this is the eating and golden corral. No see people Hispanic, and now all people is Hispanic. Example you visit the [unintelligible] in the night all people is Hispanic. I don’t know maybe the people Hispanic is more in this time pero (but) this situation is [unintelligible] and the economy de Harrisonburg, right. I remember, before have only Walmart, y (and) the Walmart in the situation and now the target, right. But now have 3 Walmart, have one Aldi, have the target have the food lion, have the I don’t know the … here pero (but) the business is more big, more big, more big. Example I remember the street the Linda lane, the finish here y (and) now continue. Y (and) the [unintelligible] at school and this area, before is not only [unintelligible] it’s a good economy de this country, de (of) this city. The problem is now example, in this situation de (of) immigration the people have more fears. No example, the Hispanic people like a change occur every year right. I not happy change occur, why. Okay here maybe one year in the United States, the politic de (of) immigration and… Example [unintelligible] I no have inversion, why? Okay no have [unintelligible] one year living here or no living here. No sé (I don’t know), this problematic is no good but economy de (of) Harrisonburg, right. Wherever you looking oh, the whole [unintelligible] right. Example, I like the change the new [unintelligible]. At first right, maybe I [unintelligible] and you cooking and one year no here. Pero (but), here in Harrisonburg I repeat, the beautiful, the beautiful city and had opportunity the people they like it the work, right. The people no like the work, maybe no live in here in Harrisonburg. I look in maybe in the downtown and the afternoon, the people on the stop, the people on the poster “I am hungry,” “I am homeless.” Y (and) here, all the sites they say that they need people. One thousand [unintelligible] in six month, what? In Harrisonburg have people, Hispanic people. They like it the work, the problem is, no have legal paper, right. And the first days in my company, all the people is Hispanic people, they no have paper, only paper the people they have is the TPS. Y (and), down, down, down, quit, quit, quit, quit in the new people no like the work. Maybe people the other country, or maybe people the United States, porque (because) I’m sorry pero (but) the people the United States, I don’t know maybe the people the problem is [unintelligible] they say I American y (and) they won’t like it no work, no like it no work. No, your decision. Example for professional right, the student they say work no like it, the position I like. Pero (but) had the option cause you a student. You no student, no have nothing position. You say I no understand the people I hungry maybe the exit the route 11 the DMV, maybe in the downtown, maybe here. [unintelligible] Its inside here maybe VVEC o (or) [unintelligible] $500, $1000, or the bond was the had the application the work y (and) these people [unintelligible] y (and) maybe these people is young people, you no understand. I look in maybe Walmart, two people, two men and the one dog. It’s like, oh my god. What happened, this is America, really? What? Is America now is very crazy right, okay, okay, okay. I no understand the situation y (and) these people they say, no Hispanic people lost my work. No, I no lost my work, I work I work I work. Nothing in this is easy or need pay. Example I pay my tax, I pay my, example my daughter born in America. My daughter no have Medicaid, my daughter I have my insurance. Y (and) what happened people say, ah no, these people they [unintelligible] they pay the electric bill, they pay the water bill, they pay the taxes, they pay the Medicaid, [unintelligible] no pay nothing but I need the water.

MEGAN

So, you work in poultry, right?

CARLOS

Poultry right poultry

MEGAN

Did you get into poultry from what your dad sent you to get to America?

CARLOS

Mhm, yea

MEGAN

So you’ve been working in poultry in Harrisonburg since 1999?

CARLOS

Yea, Harrisonburg

MEGAN

What’s the industry like?

CARLOS

What like the poultry?

MEGAN

Yea, como la industria de poultry? (What is the poultry industry like)

CARLOS

Como es? (How is it?) Is very, no easy. Its very hard, maybe you look at my finger, right. My finger had the maybe … right, I had to pay … example you look. Maybe I work every time 15 grades every time, the problem, the beef maybe forty grades anytime very cold. I no had the more option, example in this kind of weather, in the snow in the morning, for me is no good. Why, okay I need maybe levantarme (wake up), wake up, more early, why because

MEGAN

Mas temprano (earlier)

CARLOS

I need [unintelligible] to clean the car and maybe looking oh my god, good or no good driver. The snow in the morning, early, for me, it’s no good. Why. Okay. I need maybe the [unintelligible]. Wake-up more early. Why.

MEGAN:

(Spanish)

CARLOS:

[unintelligible]  need to clean the car, maybe looking. Oh my God, it’s good, I’m a good driver.

Laughs

CARLOS:

it’s very, [unintelligible]  driving in the snow, in the morning, it is slow right. I had example no have time, example I need to go in the bathroom, el bano, say hey buddy you taking my position? No, I need [unintelligible]  maybe one people, no, no, no, not in position, [unintelligible] , you say hey please I need break okay five minutes or two minutes. In town minutes to go to the bathroom. I said pee pee and come back. Right. [unintelligible]  maybe the position the [unintelligible] I don’t know may other positions opposite. They take McDonalds, take the coffee, very different. Why. Example, I used at work every time, you use the book, maybe eight or nine [unintelligible]  home, he say hey [unintelligible] my foot very water, no it’s not water it’s (Spanish) I don’t know english.

MEGAN:

Um like dirty? Or.

CARLOS:

Yeah (Spanish) say oh my God. it’s very hard, very hard. No more options for me. right. maybe option for me, example, my daughter have a better position for me my future. I need work for my daughter. have future more better. example my daughter, she have teacher maybe [unintelligible]  

CORTNI:

Do you have any connections, like to El Salvador? Do you go back there? or talk to people that are still there?

MEGAN:

Al visitar El Salvador o tiene a conexiones en El Salvador?

CARLOS:

Oh, Okay. El Salvador. I had the TPS. Temporary [unintelligible] . You are looking in the finish letter. Not valid for reentry to USA. Right. The homeland security had one option to travel out of my country. Why this option. The option is they [unintelligible]  

MEGAN:

parole

CARLOS:

This parole, I need pay this application maybe, i don’t know maybe four hundred dollar for one year, one year. I need take my fingerprints. I need take my picture. I need to recheck my record. Is there no problem, sign my parole for one year. In one year, no use the parole, no refund the money, no nothing. Had this option to travel to El Salvador, the problem is this parole and the [unintelligible]  had the different [unintelligible]

MEGAN:

Okay

CARLOS:

he say, you this parole no has [unintelligible]  you reenter the United States depending on the officer control the border.

MEGAN:

Okay

CARLOS:

Right. The officer control the border this day no eating or last night maybe the wife (Spanish) is angry, he say oh you no enter the United States. You come back, you can’t. You see the officer he say happy, say oh it’s okay. I like you face, come into the United States alright. I visit my country, last year.

MEGAN:

Last Year?

CARLOS:

Yeah, last year. For one month. Had maybe 18 year, no 17 year no visit to my country. Very very different. Example the children no is man, professor, maybe my family my [unintelligible]  my uncle, my all very different. You look into the street [unintelligible] why. it’s very different. The situation in El Salvador now is different, it’s very dangerous in different areas. not all areas, different areas, alright. [unintelligible]  maybe the [unintelligible] maybe the area of the street. Maybe you look in the, maybe you look in one main, the entrance to one street, you talk to the [unintelligible] said hey these people no live here, you check it out. theres maybe two people, he say hey where do you live. no I live with example my friend live maybe in this house, maybe die or maybe the money. Why this situation. And they call on my friend and say I visit tomorrow, alright. I sit in the entrance they [unintelligible]  no problem he say oh is he your friend, okay go in the country, very very all the situation is the young, the teen year and they exit the school, they say to sell the drug, or they say hey you have part of the gang. I don’t like this, you have part of the gang, no, you no part of the gang? you die or you die for your sister or you die for your mother, or you die for your father. They say okay this part is very very difficult now in my country. maybe you look and you watching tv the caravan of people in central America. These people no have more option. no have no option. and anyway these people have bad people and good people. pero people and the children [unintelligible]  example the old people no have no option right. United States the problem is no have the politic (do not understand) for good. maybe in my country, after the war I need more [unintelligible] in my country. Example, I, he say hey Carlos, you like it work in the United States is small. yes. okay. this is the visa, you work 6 months. in 6 months you come back and all the 6 months you work in the United States, in 6 months you come back. right they say my paycheck no here in the United States, my paycheck, the money in El Salvador. Work in the United States how the economy the United States [unintelligible] the economy of my country, they don’t have this option. Example he say no can the people necessary to travel to the United States [unintelligible]  no have this option. No have, why. Example the administration Obama had the option the people example the children the TPS have the go here, the new administration down, quick, this option. the people don’t have no option. right the United States is the father that all countries America is the big brother they call come to America. These people. example, I working here in America, its [unintelligible] . no [unintelligible] no robbery, and the economy of America. I [unintelligible] economy of America. Right. Example, now I need change my car. I had big credit and good credit. maybe see in Toyota, Honda, hey Mr. Carlos, hey welcome, what do you need. Okay i need this car [unintelligible] they say okay no problem. How money you want down [unintelligible]  down pay. Um maybe 500 dollar. Okay, no problem. And I own, and this day. Carlos have new car. no problem for have good record. The dealer, the restaurant they all tell the business no look in the people, oh no these people is immigrant, no, they look at the money. Right. In this situation not understand this president. Example you say hey, i don’t know maybe you think in the food, the hispanic food, [unintelligible] tacos, you like it , the food. they say oh my goodness, the food is very, very delicious, then American food.

Laughter

CARLOS:

[unintelligible]  They say hey this food is cooking the immigrant people, I don’t care, really like it. Right you like it. you like the food. you like my work. you like my song. now you look in the song Enrique Iglesias, Shakira, Talia, the different song, in english, in spanish, Pitbull, right. You listen to his music. This music of the immigrant. I don’t care, I like it. The problem is in America is made to immigrants, why the different, the different is maybe your beautiful, you beautiful. [unintelligible]  You say, example, your family, why is your grand grand father, what countries, Germany, Poland, Austria. Maybe you visited the college you say the question why is the country that you big big father. Oh my big big father is Poland, my big big father is Norway, my big big father is Germany. Oh my God nothing is America. Yeah it it is real. The people not understood these people not have the example my friend Michael [unintelligible] , the teacher in the Mennonite university he say Carlos you have more American then I, why decent is Germany, you is America [unintelligible]  say why the different the immigrant. The first immigrant in United States traveled in the boat, the big boat, way entrance in New York in the island Coney island in New York and the file, what your name called, okay now United States citizen, United States citizen. Why okay this time they needed people in United States, no have people in United States. Need more people, the people is the [unintelligible] the economy. The whole country. Right. the people don’t understand the situation, the last year 22 thousand people (spanish) in the city de Eastern [unintelligible] .

MEGAN:

Eastern Europe

CARLOS:

(spanish) 22 (spanish) right. El Salvador, Honduras, caravan 3 or 2 thousand people in the [unintelligible] . have 50 thousand solider on the border. these people he say I hope the United States, the United States is the big brother. The problem is the United States no help these people no help my country, and the time the war. The United States send my country 2 million dollar, why can this time, the cold war [unintelligible] , why Nicaragua is the friend the Union Soviet. Nicaragua help the area El Salvador. He say this time Ronald Regan, they send money El Salvador, why because El Salvador de Korea de taken the problem de country South America, take the problem the Union Soviet [unintelligible]  guns, [unintelligible] , fire, [unintelligible] , the war, they say Ronald Reagan maybe have Joe Bush father he say hey 2 million dollar in 10 years I no have solution. I need solution the dialog in the (do not understand) the conflict, nothing win nothing lost. Okay. The [unintelligible] El Salvador, had [unintelligible] .

MEGAN:

Peace treaty

CARLOS:

Alright. Okay. Very Good. Peace. Love and Peace in El Salvador no problem. United States [unintelligible]  other country [unintelligible] more money in El Salvador economy, [unintelligible] no nothing. My daughter. [unintelligible]  It’s a big problem in my country, you know in El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, Nicaragua, alright. Example, Guatemala no have TPS. Only Honduras, Nicaragua, El Salvador. Guatemala no have TPS. maybe you watch the news, I don’t know this year or last year, the volcano (spanish) people dying, maybe, I don’t know how the day maybe ten thousand people die, what happened to TPS, no TPS. Why. I don’t care, Guatemala is (not important) to the United States. Right. El Salvador now is the big problem, no have [unintelligible] . the people need immigrants. Okay Immigrant is the life, the universal life, example you say momma, papa I no like Harrisonburg, I immigrant say Costa Rica, or immigrant other country. Why, yeah it is my decision, okay. You immigrant, okay, you immigrant, your decision. No like it. Oh my goodness, United State very cold, maybe 10, 5, degrees. Oh my God. Right. No have more option. Say this two years old i visit a class, in elementary school, english class, have group people different country. The teacher had the question, how many time you have other partner, student for me. he say how many time you live here in the United State have 15 year [unintelligible]  he say 15 years, you no speak nothing english. Hey say hey I’m sorry I have a question for you, you work? no, I no work, I cooking, I [unintelligible] my children, I clean my home, okay. You have resident? yeah I have resident. In 6 months had my resident okay. Here have 15 year living here in the United States you no have resident. Why. I don’t know its a big question for the government. These people, hispanic people, no here in United States as student here in the United States work, Why. For my children, my children need eating. You maybe don’t have document, and me take it anyway position, maybe to clean the bathroom and to clean the i don’t know. The different paper, no I don’t clean the bathroom maybe work in the station in the restaurant, I don’t know may they say this [unintelligible] why the situation, real situation, the immigrant example in my country El Salvador, right. No work, travel here the United State, they like it, have more option, no more option, the option have the rich people, example the rich people in my country no study in the United States, study in France, Germany, England, United States, no. You like it United States. You look to maybe visit other country in Europe, maybe Germany or other country, it’s very different right. you look at example the street, example the interstate 81, only two lanes. You looking two lanes, one trailer here, one trailer there. Oh my God, right. Its America, in 18 years living here in Virginia, only two lanes. I look example on internet, example in (Holland) the street is plastic, [unintelligible]  no more gas car, the electric car. Why. What happened in the United States. Is the immigrant (Spanish), no the (Spanish). You and You, the future of this country, my daughter the future of this country, the women the future of this country. you know the movement MeTo, right. the MeTo, I like this movement, I like it. United State is necessary the women take it, the real position. The men is no good, the women. Example in the last election, I cried Hillary Clinton no win. What happened. Hillary Clinton had big opportunity and no win, I don’t know.

MEGAN:

Politics

CARLOS:

Politics, right, politics. example, in the JMU maybe no have the real idea the [unintelligible] . I like it the foreign the different, the interview, all people have [unintelligible] . example the country, the midwest have big problem in the war, why. in example my friend de Iraq say hey I have a question for you all right, you say Sudan Husain is a good president or a bad president, no he a good president, they pay [unintelligible]  300 hundred dollar for the people only work 60 year [unintelligible] the pension. right. the gasoline maybe 15 cents a gallon, why. you worry Sudan Husain is the bad people, the [unintelligible] people, no. This the good people. The dying the Sudan Husain taken the power over people now Iraq is down. Other problem is Libya, [unintelligible] in this control Libya. I say I don’t know if this war is very crazy, no, understand. Example my daughter last night she cry, say pap no win in Virginia.

MEGAN:

the election

CARLOS:

[unintelligible]  no hija, no. is Jennifer Lewis is only one represent. This morning the congress come to the (democrats) [unintelligible] . I don’t know. Why do you think?

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