Culture Shock
Culture Shock
In this episode of Harrisonburg360, our group discusses the experiences of two women as they immigrated to the United States in 2001. Paloma Saucedo immigrated to the U.S. from Mexico with her then-partner, while Jinky Knox immigrated by herself from the Philippines in order to continue a relationship with an American man she had met. Although Jinky and Paloma first arrived in different areas of the country, eventually they both settled in Harrisonburg, VA. This episode analyzes Jinky and Paloma’s initial perceptions of the United States and how those perceptions were challenged and changed by their experiences. Throughout this podcast, we compared and contrasted the immigration narratives from these two women in order to highlight the intensity of being exposed to an unfamiliar culture from another country. In conclusion, we highlight how the theme of community transcends both Paloma and Jinky’s stories, highlighting how cultural differences do not hold individuals back from seeking out and forming new connections.
Notes continued for those interested:
A reference to Valley Aids Network, as mentioned by Paloma: http://www.valleyaidsinfo.org/
A reference to the changing immigration laws for the year Paloma and Jinky migrated to the United States: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/post-911-policies-dramatically-alter-us-immigration-landscape
“Culture Shock” Show Notes by Corinne Landrum, Kevin Hennessey, Olivia Comer, and Caroline FitzGerald
This episode was made possible by Dr. Fagan of the JMU English Department, Paloma Saucedo, Jinky Knox, and Hannah Moses. Special thanks to JMU’s Special Collections, especially Kirsten Mlodynia.
Interview with Evelin Gonzales
Interview with Evelin Gonzales
MIGRATION
Evelin Gonzales was born in 1983 in Nicaragua, and lived in the countryside near the Costa Rican border with her parents and grandparents until she was a year old and her family moved to the country’s capital city, Managua. She discusses living and and growing up in Nicaragua, specifically in the city, and the overall limited educational resources:
“Nicaragua is very limited in education resources. So, what I just remember if you wanted to– the main thing for me, I really enjoy reading. And so if you wanted to read the good books you– I remember walking like a mile and a half to get to the library or more…from my high school there was a government building and they had a good library. So, but then you have to walk back home and it’s dark. I remember going after classes and spending maybe an hour, hour and a half, but you cannot check out books. So you can only read there, so you will be like, okay, ‘I’m finishing my page, 146, I’ll pick it up tomorrow’, so you have to be very disciplined.”
Evelin lived in Managua until her immigration to the U.S. 5 years ago after meeting her husband, an American citizen. Evelin met her husband while he was doing 4 years of service work for the Mennonite Central Committee in Nicaragua. After dating for three years, the couple got married in Nicaragua two months after Evelin graduated college in 2006 with a degree in accounting. During her 5-year accounting degree program, Evelin was very involved; she was a member of the student union, and did a lot of networking and research on international trade agreements and their impact on education and the lives of women. Evelin and her husband both lived and worked in Nicaragua for 12 years.
Before ultimately agreeing to move the U.S., Evelin had substantial reservations about living here. Her perceptions were based on her experiences of violence and turmoil growing up in Nicaragua’s unstable political climate, and informed her overall negative sentiments of the U.S.:
“So I was born in 1983, so we have a very long history with the United States and, the US finance– help to set and finance a dictator for 45 years in Nicaragua. So finally the Nicaraguans were able to organize a revolution until that happened in 1979. But then since the revolution there were a lot of, pretty much they wrote a new constitution and there were like more rights given to women and uh, there was uh, there was a lot of social changes and changes in the distribution of wealth too, uh, but there was also more war financed by the United States. So we had the revolution in 1917 and 1879. And then we have 10 more years of war, and so like that I can definitely remember like bombs, airplanes dropping bombs and stuff like that.”
Evelin honestly did not want to come to the U.S. She and her husband “had a long three years negotiation” about moving here. She recalls thinking, “I didn’t want to come to the US. I think that if I ever thought about marrying somebody, how that was for sure…So, um, it was really difficult to think about coming to the United States.” After she and her husband had a discussion about their personal differences and their country’s cultural differences, Evelin and her husband made an agreement to get married and move to the U.S. so her husband would be able to do work in the community, and so Evelin would have an opportunity to meet the people that “didn’t bomb [her] country” and who were “pretty much against that”.
Evelin and her husband lived with her family for 2 years in Nicaragua after they were married. Evelin describes getting her visa as “a really easy process”, because she felt she got lucky by her parents sharing a connection with the interviewer (they both attended the same university). Evelin also acknowledges that her relatively smooth immigration process, that was finalized in 30 days, was definitely unlike most cases, which often take years.
When Evelin came to visit the U.S. for the first time, she stayed for about a month and then returned to Nicaragua. She had both of her two children in Nicaragua, and came back again when her youngest child was seven months old, and her oldest was two. Five years ago, Evelin and her husband moved to Harrisonburg, her husband’s hometown, in order to be closer to his parents and his side of the family, and have been here ever since.
INTEGRATION
Evelin’s integration was a very unique case. She came to America because of her husband’s status and his family is over here. She said, “We mostly moved because we wanted the kids to be close to their grandparents for the side of the family in”. Her economic integration included her multiple visits to America. She has been back and forth for many years. Her second trip to America she got a job at a daycare:
“He came to the US, he could get a job. So we came on a Friday. He started working on Monday and um, yeah I, after two weeks I’m like, dear, I’m ready to go back home so or I get a job or I’m leaving. And so, but then I went to OCP. They had a community activity and I met a lady in She asked me, I saw a little boy walking in and he could be cute. So the lady was like, “do you like kids?” So I’m like, “I don’t know what she’s trying to say” with my husband and interpret for me and he’s asked your girl. And so she’s like, um, she was the director of program (Roberta) Webb Child Care Center and she’s like, “if I have an opening I will let you know”. And so she called me that same week and they had an opening”.
They decided to go back to Nicaragua and get married. One they had two kids and decided to move back to America after an ongoing debate and counseling. Now they have been in America for five years since their last visit. Evelin wanted to get a job quickly just like the last time since she needed her independence too. She started to work at Bowl of Good while she was looking for something more permanent. “wanted to work because I’m very independent. I go nuts with kids and home and just baby talk grownups and know I cannot be in home. I started working for a few hours and a bowl of good. So I was helping in the kitchen”. Evelin started to get a little bored so she was looking into First Step which helps those who have been in abusive relationships, specifically women. Since Evelin had experience working with a women and domestic violence prevention she thought that would be a perfect choice. Her husband suggested Everence down the street from Bowl of Good since she has an accounting background so she applied to both companies. She heard back from First Step but turned it down. “I get a phone call from the other place, offered me the job for working in First Step as a case manager. But then I’m like, no, I want to try the financial figures and do something different”. Evelin now serves as the Branch Manager for the Everence Federal Credit Union branch located in Harrisonburg. She joined the Everence team in 2015 by helping to meet clients’ needs through loans and other credit union services for individuals, families and small businesses.
Evelin talked a lot about the attitudes she received from the Harrisonburg community. When she first came to America she did not speak a word of english and was only here for a couple of months. People thought she was very nice and sweet at first. When she started to learn more english and question some things the Mennonite church was doing her friends changed their views. When she came back the second and third time the church community were not a fan of her views and reservations.
“So I feel like my first visit to the US, it was kind of a honeymoon. You don’t actually talk you’re so quiet. You’re so cute, you know, like you don’t actually express yourself because you don’t know the language. And so the second time that I came then I wasn’t that great anymore because you start seeing how are the church dynamics and how are the politics and you were like, oh, but I don’t agree with that and what is the church doing and how. And so then people were like, Oh, let me tell you how we Mennonites do it”.
Other than her few struggles with the church Evelin had a smooth transition to regular life in America. Her sister moved out to be closer to her and she started a family with a westerner as well. The process for her to get her papers were very easy. She actually applied back in Nicaragua thinking it would take a long time, enough time that she could still live in Nicaragua for a couple of years. It actually only took a couple of months so she decided to decline the order so she could stay in Nicaragua longer. We did not ask specifically about the Nicaraguan community and if she had a part with them if there was one.
Going off experiences learning English and going to school were interesting. She told us she learned English by means of work since her husband was her main translator and many did not speak Spanish at the time. “I learned English mostly by work pressure and so I enrolled into the MBA program at EMU a one year, a year ago. So I’m completing my first year”. Going into her educational experiences, Evelin got her bachelor’s accounting degree in Nicaragua and just enrolled in EMU’s Masters degree in business as she said in the previous quote. Since she had a college education before coming to America it made the whole job process and reception much easier.
Evelin spent a great deal of time talking about her preconceived ideas of America. Her political incorporation was a pretty big deal. When she was young there was a lot of conflict with the Nicaraguan government and the U.S. ideals. Nicaragua had a dictator at the time and of course America is/was against those types of power structures. The U.S. sent lots of troops and warfare to Nicaragua which affected Evelin’s perceptions of Americans. She saw them as these negative people who destroyed her homeland with bombs. Those events had a lasting effect until adulthood and resentment was very prevalent.
“So we had the revolution in 1917 and 1879. And then we have 10 more years of war and so like that I can definitely remember like bombs, airplanes dropping bombs and stuff like that. And even coming to the U.S. it’s funny because sometimes I meet people and they were like, oh yeah, “I was in Nicaragua in the eighties and I was working in the aviation”. I was like, yeah, maybe you were one of those dropping bombs, those bombs that I still remember”.
Evelin’s integration was/is very different than most stories we have looked at in our class. She came over here because of marriage and family while many did it because they wanted a better life. She had a great life and plans to return to Nicaragua very soon.
MEMBERSHIP
Overall, Evelin’s attitudes about moving to the U.S. and the U.S. in general were not favorable. To this day, and especially under our current administration, Evelin still has her reservations about living in the U.S. She discusses,
“I didn’t want to come to the U.S. because I’m like, what kind of people live in that place? What kind of– what are their values? Really? I just didn’t want it. I don’t have any desire of coming to the U.S….After the these elections I told my husband, this is exactly the country that I thought it was…”
Despite these doubts, Evelin is now a citizen of the United States. She discussed a little about the lengthy bureaucratic process and mentioned that a spelling mistake was made on her naturalization certificate and how she is currently waiting for that to be fixed, “I got my citizenship like a month ago. But my certificate, my naturalization certificate, my name was misspelled. And just to fix that it’s going to take like close to $600 and maybe between 6 and 13 months and they haven’t even sent me a letter saying that they had received the papers and I, I sent it back overnight so I know they got the papers…”
Evelin doesn’t really go back to Nicaragua for visits with her family because she doesn’t have an American passport yet, but her parents do visit once a year and stay for about a month. However, she does anticipate going back to Nicaragua with her family to potentially do a 3-5 year service term. Her two sons are both bilingual in Spanish and English, and are both enrolled in dual-immersion programs, which are offered in most Harrisonburg public schools. She also mentioned that her sons always say their evening prayers in Spanish as her mother and sister taught them.
To conclude the interview, we asked Evelin if she had any advice for her younger self, to which she answered with words I think we all have needed to hear at one point or another,
“Just be adaptable and wherever you are, just be yourself, learn the culture, it takes several years, and be open and be adaptable. I think an open mind–and I have to adapt so much in this job and in this culture, what do you say and what you don’t say and what the rituals and yeah, just be open. Um, there’s nothing that will prepare you for, you know, the different scenarios you’re going to face, but take it easy. Always take it as a learning experience. Even when I get really upset, I’m like, ‘ah, I’m definitely learning something from this one’…Everything is different and every person, I don’t know, has a way of expressing themselves and that’s not just about you, it’s about a lot more than that. And so I learned not to take anything personal and to always try to learn something from your experience and yeah, don’t let it get to you. Learn something from that experience.”
CONNECTIONS TO CLASS
In the second half of the class we talked a lot about receptions and Evelin had a good amount to say about this topic. She was well received at first but when she began discussing her personal opinions her truth came to the surface. Since then she has felt like Harrisonburg is her second home. Her sister is about to live in the house right next to her and has started her own family. In the Washington Post article by Andrew D. Perrine, you can definitely see signs of a positive reception. One even said, “This support shows us the community is standing with us. This makes us feel like we are all Americans”. What we have previously seen in Evelin’s story is very different to the stories we have mainly studied. She was not undocumented for that long and was very privileged when trying to obtain citizenship. In Roberto G. Gonazales’ “Learning to be Illegal” we saw the struggles of being an undocumented teen. Evelin says that she understood the struggle others had and because of that she would take her kids to all of the local marches surrounding immigration. She wanted to show them the other side of immigration that she fortunately did not have to go through. In the Massey reading, “Why Immigration Occurs” we see how Evelin’s marriage and connections with her husband’s family is what ultimately brought her to the United States. In fact it was the only reason why she would come over since she had reservations about America to begin with especially its government policies.
Sophie: Yeah. Do you want to just start off about talking about like where you were born and just like the background. Yeah.
Evelin: What kind of background?
Sophie: Like um, so you were in Nicaragua, correct. So just Kinda just talk about your childhood and stuff like that, if that makes sense?
Meghan: Well I guess we could start with like where and when you were born. Let’s start with something specific.
Evelin: I was born in Nicaragua, the and um, I live with my grandparents and parents until I was one year old and we were born umm. I was born in the countryside and then my parents decided to move to the city and so I grew up in Managua, the capital.
Meghan: Okay.
Evelin: Yup.
Meghan: Um, what is your like education history like? Where did you go to school? In Nicaragua or did you do that when you came to the US?
Evelin: No, I went to, um, I didn’t, I have an accounting degree and so I did that in Nicaragua
Meghan: Okay.
Evelin: And so, um, when I came to the US we came five years ago.
Meghan: Okay.
Evelin: And so, um, I learned English mostly by work pressure and so I enrolled into the MBA program at EMU a one year, a year ago. So I’m completing my first year. Oh, the MBA.
Sophie:Nice. And then when you said we, was it just you coming over or was it your family, your husband?
Evelin:Yeah, I met my husband in Nicaragua. He was an MCC, MCC is a Mennonite Central Committee. He was a service worker for the Mennonite church and so he went, to Nicaragua for four years of service, so we met there and we dated for three years and then we got married and he started working in Nicaragua, a local worker for the same organization. And so he pretty much ended up being there for a total of 12 years.
Meghan:Oh Wow.
Evelin: And um, yeah. And so we got married in 2006, I was just talking with some friends and I just got married like two months after I after i finished my college. like thats too much.
Meghan:Yeah, that’s definitely a big change.
Sophie: Yeah, for sure.
Meghan: So you said that you grew up like on the countryside and then moved to the city. What was your experience like growing up in the capital and like what was that like being there.
Evelin: You know, so growing up actually I was from like maybe one year old when we moved from the countryside.
Meghan: Okay.
Evelin: So living in the city it was, Nicaragua is very limited in education resources. Okay. So what, I just remember if you wanted to, the main thing for me, I really enjoy reading. And so if you want it to read the good books, you um, I remember walking like a mile and a half to get to the library or more and um, yeah, or uh, there was um, and from my high school there was a government building and they had a good library. So, but then you have to walk back home and it’s dark. And so, um, so I remember going after, um, after classes and spending maybe an hour, hour and a half, but you cannot check out books.
Meghan: Oh really?
Evelin: So you can only read there, so you will be like, okay, finishing my page 46. Oh, pick it up tomorrow.
Meghan: That’s crazy
Evelin: So you have to be very disciplined.
Sophie: Right. So, um, how has your, education, you said you got your degree in accounting. So how was that process like going to like college in Nicaragua? Is there any conflicts or anything, anything like that?
Evelin: Um, you know, it’s. So the, I went to a public school, a public university, and actually in accounting, the public university was the one that was pretty hard to get in. Um, it was cheap. The problem in Nicaragua is not that you cannot afford, you can only not afford college because you, your family needs your income, so you must do work. It’s not that it’s expensive. Um, but my parents were very supportive, so I applied for the university. You have a test that you have to pass and it’s very competitive. But um, I got in accounting and it was a five year program, um, and I really enjoy kind of studying in networking and so I got into, into the student union and so I did a lot of networking in research for international trade agreements and so all their student unions, we’re also focusing on that. And so we were working like in the Central American region doing education about the impact of international trades like CAFTA
Meghan: yeah.
Evelin: Yeah, because it had a lot of impact in education and women.
Meghan: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Wow, that’s really fascinating. Um, was there like a, a culture of migration, like where you were from? Like, did you know a lot of people that like either left Nicaragua to go somewhere else or like people that went to the US? Did you know, a lot of people that left or?
Evelin: I knew a little, not in the city and the city I guess, there was a lot of migration, internal migration from, uh, the north or the countryside to the city.
Meghan: Okay.
Evelin: Um, but yes, I remember a lot of migration from my hometown because that’s close to the Costa Rican border. And so a lot of people you will know that half of my, my aunts and uncles are in Costa Rica and it is, it is very common, that kind of migration.
Meghan: Yeah. Yeah
Evelin: But I didn’t know a lot of people moving to the United States. Nope.
Meghan: Okay.
Evelin: Most people migrate in Nicaragua, most people migrate. And um, to Costa Rica and if you see it right now, if you see a with Nicaragua is struggling politically right now, but they you don’t hear about Nicaraguans and the Immigration Caravan that is coming to the US right now.
Meghan: Right, Right
Evelin: They still migrating, but they like to stay closer and I guess we don’t have the language barrier and so people just cross the border and go to Costa Rica when things settle they go back or they back and they go back and forth.
Sophie: Okay, nice. Um, so before moving to the US we’ll talk more about that, but did you have any like preconceived ideas about the US and your like perceptions?
Evelin: Definitely! We have a lot. Um, so I was born in 1983, so we have a very long history with the United States and like, the US financed, helped to set in finance a, what is it called, what is the word that I’m looking for? Dictator for 45 years in Nicaragua. So finally they (Nicaraguans). Were able to organize a revolution a until that happened in 1979. But then since the revolution there were a lot of, pretty much they wrote a new constitution and they were like more rights given to women and, there was uh, there was a lot of social changes, and changes in the distribution of wealth to but there was also more war finances by the United States. So we had the revolution in 1917 and 1879. And then we have 10 more years of work and so like that I can definitely remember like bombs, airplanes dropping bombs and stuff like that. And even coming to the US is funny because sometimes I meet people and they were like, oh yeah, I was in Nicaragua in the eighties and I was working in the aviation. I was like, yeah, maybe you were one of those dropping bombs, those bombs that I still remember. Wow. And so, so when I met my husband, we had a long three years negotiation because I didn’t want to come to the US. I think that if I ever thought about marrying somebody, who was not from the United States that was for sure. So it was, it was very interesting because I, and even agreeing can now, talking about getting married. I’m like, yeah, but we can live here, right? We don’t need to go to the United States. So, um, it was really difficult to think about coming to the United States. Uh, we even have like a counseling sessions.
Meghan: Oh really?
Evelin: It was, so they call it, like the, it was some friends that were doing a masters in psychology. And so they have, they call it family constellation. So you are in a, you have like an audience and there were like 20 people in the room. And then you are the couple, they’re used to do the counseling, so each of you is invited to choose for the audience who is going to represent your family. So you were like, okay, you can you be my sister? And could you be my? And so they asked you to arrange your family. And so I chose my mother, my father, my brother, my sister, my country. And so I put them my idea, my mom, my dad, my brother and sister. I’m the middle child and then my country in front. So my husband chose his mother, father, sister, him (himself) and the country was big, tall guy from Italy. And so I remember that. Then they ask you to introduce your fiance to the family and you go. And my husband is, he went and did a big bow to the family and to the country. And then they asked me to do the same. And then for me that was the end is it wasn’t conscious that I was standing there and thinking, I’m like, I’m just going to move my head too, you know, that’s a recognition. That’s a reverence to the country. Ten minutes later my body didn’t move and then they asked me like, hey, this is over, I can do this. And then I turned back to the guy representing the US and my body for another five minutes didn’t move. So then there was like the breaking point. There were obviously a big difference between us like are countries would have been. Yeah. So we, we discuss about that and that was when we made an agreement. Okay, okay. He was like, you know, I’m from the US but I’m [inaudible recording] I put a lot of energy and time and community development and making my community a better place. So I think that I would like you to come to the US and meet the family the people that you know, didn’t bomb your country, that didn’t finance the war. They were pretty much like against that. And so we made that agreement and that was when we, okay, we can get married now. And so we live with my family for two years after we get married and then we came to the US and we lived with his parents and his community and we went to church and I met all these other people and then we went back to Nicaragua.
Meghan: So you said five years ago you came?
Evelin: Yes, but I guess five years since we have our kids, I came that first time and yeah, we can now get to know his family. I can know Harrisonburg and pretty much like the Mennonite community. And, and then we moved back to Nicaragua.
Sophie: And how long were you back in Nicaragua?
Evelin: Five Years.
Sophie: Ahh five years again. Okay. And then how was that transition coming back into the US? Was it intended to be permanent or did you think?
Evelin: No, I don’t think this is permanent. I think I wanted to get my citizenship because that’s the other part about immigration. It’s not once you are a US resident is now that you can just go back to your country and stay there. So you will have some legal immigration status that you can, have to protect. And so were in Nicaragua for five years, but we have to do a letter like a special permits. And so when we came back I knew that I couldn’t go back to Nicaragua for many years because I needed to because I didn’t have any. If I was, if I decided to go back to Nicaragua, just to visit, I was taking the chance of not being able to come back to the US.
Evelin: And so, uh, my only choice was to stay solid, um, in the US for four years and then apply for a citizenship. And so I did that. I didn’t, I didn’t travel or do anything. Um, and then I applied for citizenship. I just got my citizenship like a month ago.
Meghan: So you got your citizenship, like separate from being married to your husband or was there like something about like him being a US citizen, because I know that there’s like the K-1 visa thing where like people can come over and like get married here or like there’s like different, like routes you can kind of take. Like were you just kind of like on your own? Like, do you know what I’m saying?
Evelin: Yes. I know what you were saying. umm I think it wouldn’t be the case. It would have been the case. I got married in Nicaragua we didn’t get married in the US.
Meghan: Right, right
Evelin: Sometimes it’s difficult when you get married outside the US, it’s better to do the fiancee visa to the US and get married. That’s the easy one. Some people like in our case, like I wasn’t thinking and coming to the United States like right away or anything. They told me that my visa was going, my, my paperwork, it was going to take between six months and a year in a half hour. So I get married soon after I finished college, then, um, then I applied for that and they give it to me in 30 days.
Meghan: Oh Wow.
Evelin: And then I was like, oh, I’m starting a new job. I’m excited about my job and I don’t want to go to the United States. Right. So I have to. And so they told me, okay, you can deny your residency and apply again. And so I didn’t have any other choice. I came, it was a really easy process and I, I can easily identify what happened. My parents went to Nicaragua, they went to the embassy, they sign in Nicaragua, the affidavit of support and she (worker at the embassy) made a special connection with the person interviewing us. They went to the same college and I don’t know what happened there, but something made everything easier after that. So we got everything, um, finalized it in 30 days and that wasn’t usually the case. Right. And so, um, so that was my experience and, and I do acknowledged that that’s the best way for most of the case.
Meghan: That’s just one that I’ve heard of, you know, the most like…
Evelin: And some I have had some other friends that they got married in Nicaragua and then the husband was in the US trying to bring her.
Meghan: Right.
Evelin: It didn’t work. Yeah. I have another friend that it was the same and NCC service worker married over there for more than a year and she’s still there trying to get her papers.
Meghan:Wow
Evelin: It was pretty it sometimes when you think about immigration in some cases about of luck, there’s no pretty much the person interviewing you decide, how is the process going to be.
Meghan: Exactly. Yeah. Um, so I know that you like with the whole story about like kind of like counseling sort of thing. You did like obviously you had reservations about leaving.
Evelin: Yeah
Meghan:What were some of like, I don’t know, like your fears and concerns, like specifically like, I don’t know, you’re leaving your family or like adapting to like a completely new, you know, culture.
Evelin: I wasn’t even thinking about that. I was just like the image of international image of the US is about, especially as in Jamaica, like the damage that the United States have been doing with a financing wars and it’s an economic strategy. You know, if you control what they eat, you control their people.
Meghan: Yeah
Evelin: If you control every time that something big, major umm war happen in Nicaragua or happened in Central America. Then as soon as everything is okay, the US gain more power or the companies, it’s not. Think about it. the big corporations, they the one, they create the, the crisis and then they gain markets, ensuring the markets. So I didn’t want to come to the US because I’m like, what kind of people live in the US?
Meghan: Yeah.
Evelin: What kind of, what are their values? Really?
Meghan:Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Evelin: I just didn’t want it. I don’t have any desire of coming to the US. I’m like, I just, I don’t know. We had three years of negotiation.
Meghan:Are you still kind of dealing with that? I mean, are you, do you feel like, I don’t know, like better? or?
Evelin: I feel like when, when, um, after the these elections and I told my husband, this is exactly the country that I thought it was, um, like all these, you know, I don’t, I don’t blame it on the people that are working for US CIS, but it must be really hard when you were working and we are used to following rules and policies and be ethical and your behavior and comply with everything at your job. But then the law is changing.
Meghan: Yeah
Evelin: and you are processing paperwork that is sending people away and divided families. So is that about you? or is it about a system? So if you were the person that you used to send a letter saying, hey, by the way, you know, we still need these other three documents for your case and now the, the new regulations says that instead of saying you need more paperwork, they get a letter saying present to the court because you are in a deportation note. And so it is pretty hard to differentiate the people that work in the system and their ethics and the system itself. So It’s still pretty hard. I feel like with all these changes right now, this is the country that I didn’t want to come to.
Sophie: Yeah, I think we all have. Yes. Mutual feelings. Um, I would love to talk more about you coming here for the second time, which is like the time now. Um, if you would like to talk about, um, did you end up here in Harrisonburg when you came over with your husband?
Evelin: Yeah, my husband’s family from Harrisonburg. So in now we have two kids. Um, when we came, my youngest child was seven months old and my oldest child was two years and seven months. And so, uh, we mostly moved because we wanted the kids to be close to their grandparents from the side of the family and my husband only has one grandmother alive, so we wanted them to meet them
Meghan: Ohh okay.
Evelin: And um, so we came to Harrisonburg and, you know, looking for jobs and all that stuff. But what do you do when you have kids that are so little? So it was pretty difficult and I didn’t want to leave them or send them in a childcare for me it feels like um too much. And so, um, we, we played the immigration game, um, so, but I want it to work because I’m very independent and I go nuts with kids and home and just baby talk. I really need grownups and no I cannot be in home. Isn’t that healthy for me. So, um, I started working for a few hours at A Bowl of Good. Okay. So I was helping in the kitchen. I’m like, at least this is getting me out. So my husband was working for New Bridges, immigrant resource center and so as soon as he came home a few nights a week I was working there, then I’m like, no, this is boring let me find something different. And so I, I, I, I applied for a note for a job at First Step because most of my work experience, um, it was working with a women and domestic violence prevention or women and empower men or women, so a fair trade and all that stuff. Um, so I wanted to work on that field, but um also, my background is accounting. So my husband told me about a job in Everence and so I’m like, I’m look like. So I, I, I grabbed the phone and I call this office and they were like, are you available? I’m like, yeah, come now for an, from to get the paperwork. And it was actually an interview and they were like, okay, here are the paperwork apply and I am like hmm, but the same day I get a phone call from the other place, offered me the job for working in First Step as a case manager. But then I’m like, no, I want to try the financial field to do something different. And so, um, I applied, took a while to get it, but I, I got the job, I got, I was an MSR member service representative for three months and then they offered me the branch manager position.
Meghan: Cool. So when did you start here?
Evelin: Four years ago.
Sophie:Four years?
Evelin: So I was pretty new. I have learned a lot.
Sophie: Um, I would love to talk more about your kids. So you said they were born in Nicaragua, how was that process? I’m dealing with documentation and stuff like that was pretty easy?
Evelin: pretty easy when they were born in Nicaragua, and the US because of their father, they get immediate citizenship. So we just went to the embassy and, completed the paperwork. They were kind of mean in the interview. Whenever they have power they can use it. So they were like, why did you waited five years to have a baby? Did you have any abortions? They were awful. But anyway, after the interview they gave the paperwork and um, for the second child it was actually even easier. They didn’t ask any questions
Meghan & Sophie:[Laughed]
Evelin: And they just give them the paper where they even got their passports. The US passport faster than the Nicaraguan passport in a month they had everything.
Sophie: Oh Nice.
Meghan: Okay. Um, so is all of your family back in Nicaragua or are there any family members in the US?
Evelin: My sister came, so the way that I arrange ahh arrange, childcare it was that my mom came to take care of the kids for six months and then my sister came and helped me with the kids because I wanted to keep them in the home and with family and so, so they can still have that connection.
Meghan: Yeah.
Evelin: So my sister finally met some, her husband here and they got married and so now they live together.
Meghan: They live here in Harrisonburg?
Evelin: Yes, three blocks from my house. Then the house next door.
Meghan: Oh really? That’s picture perfect.
Evelin: Families to stay together.
Meghan: So let’s see, was there any like initial kind of like, when you first arrived, was there any kind of culture shock or anything? Did you experience any like “firsts”?
Evelin: Like when I came with the kids or when I came by myself?
Meghan: Yeah.
Evelin: Yeah, definitely. Like I didn’t speak the language and I knew nothing. My husband, as soon as he came to the US, he got a job. So we came on a Friday. He started working on Monday and um, yeah, I, I, after two weeks I’m like, ‘dear, I’m ready to go back home so I get a job or I’m leaving’. And so, but then I went to OCP, they had a community activity and I met a lady and she asked me– I saw a little boy walking, little baby oh so cute. So the lady was like, do you like kids? So I’m like, I don’t know what she’s trying to say, my husband interpret for me, and so she’s like, um, she was the director of program Webb Childcare Center and she’s like, ‘if I have an opening I will let you know’. And so she called me that same week and they had an opening. And so, um, I practice, my husband was asking me all these questions and I was answering, like what is your name, where do you live… So anyway, when I went there I couldn’t say anything. I was so shy and so red. And I couldn’t say– it’s like she knows everything, they were very nice and they were like, yeah, go and see the job, come over tomorrow and work the entire day. If you like it, you can, that’s your job, you know, you can do it and if you don’t like it, that’s fine. So I went there and I liked working with the kids and I learned a lot and, and I really wanted to work with kids because they say if you want to learn the language, work with kids and they don’t have any problem in letting you know that. So yeah, I did that. It was fun. I really enjoy. So it was close from home so I was able to ride my bike two point six miles and then come back.
Meghan: Were there any like negative experiences? Like maybe, like we’ve talked about, like kind of like a negative reception. Like when immigrants come to like there’s like stereotypes, things like that. People have given you a hard time about…
Evelin: No actually I have a different experience. So I feel like my first visit to the US, it was kind of a honeymoon. You didn’t actually talk, you’re so quiet, you are so cute, you know, like you don’t actually express yourself because you don’t know the language. And so the second time that I came, then it wasn’t that great anymore because you start seeing how are the church dynamics and how are the politics. And you were like, ‘oh, but I don’t agree with that and why is the church doing this and how do–’ And so then people were like, ‘Oh, let me tell you how we Mennonites do it’. I’m like ‘hmm, cool, you were so open and so different’. But when somebody is questioning the way that you do something, um, and yeah, so I think it has been the cultural shock has been more the second part when I can talk and understand and express myself. And I had different interests than just learning, and I knew I was leaving. And this one, I know that I’m leaving, but I know that I’m staying a little bit longer and that, you know, if this is not fair for me, it should not be fair for my kids either. So let’s make some changes. And so I joined like, um, there is an activity– its called Hope for the Future, is pretty much leaders of color in the Mennonite church asking for changes and not just in the church. Also in the church agencies, like Everence is one of them.
Meghan: Um, so would you say that like the reception in Harrisonburg of immigrants, maybe not just with your, like unique experience, would you say it’s like overall positive? Like do you feel like it’s an accepting place to come? I guess elaborate on–
Evelin: You know, I have a lot of privilege, I have education. Um, I have a legal status and now I’m a citizen. I get a job that I’m pretty sure that the first thing, engagement for all, or the first thing for this job was a, they knew my husband, they knew my husband’s family. Um, you were very well seen when you come from service outside the country serving for the Mennonite church. So I get a lot of benefits that I don’t think other people have. And um, yeah, I don’t think that I’m not a good person to compare with the other cases. I know a friend that I’m trying to help her and she has three daughters. She has a deportation order but nobody does anything about it, you know, it’s like, so nobody has asked any team to a lawyer or any other way to, I dunno. I feel like people in Harrisonburg are very nice and very kind and they are very um, willing to help if they connect with other people but they are not very open to people are not that. So it is confusing. It is complicated. Like if I think about the members in my church, you know, they’d go to all the marches, they have a different way of thinking, and if they knew a need they will try to help them. But then they only relate with white people that doesn’t need any help. So I’m like hmm that’s the double side of, I don’t know, it’s complicated, but anyway, maybe I’m not explaining it correctly…
Meghan: No, that’s actually a very fair point. Like we’ve been talking about how overall, receiving communities, or even people in general are more– like if they know someone who was an immigrant or if they like– instead of like “othering” people I guess would be the best way to describe it. Like a lot of people sort of like, see difference rather than seeing similarities. Like they’re, they’re not very “like me” in terms of their language or their culture or whatever. So like I’m going to separate myself from them. You know what I mean? So like, I mean that’s exactly what you were mentioning.
Sophie: Um, have you talked to your kids about your immigration story at all? Does that ever come up?
Evelin: You know, it’s, it’s amazing what kids learn, and how they interpret everything. They know about immigration just because we have this friend that has three kids and they know that, you know, things are difficult. We don’t have tv at home, so whenever they hear news or they hear stuff, they really pay attention. I remember that they went to visit their grandparents one night and my parents in law have a TV and they watch the news and so my oldest child, this was last year. He was watching the news and uh, they were listening, oh, about immigration and all these changes and all that. And they knew that my mother was coming and so he started crying and crying, woke up crying. Like, ‘Mimi’s not white, Mimi’s not from the US, they’re not going to let her come in. Mommy, I would never be able to see my Mimi.” So they get it. They know it. And yeah, there is no way that you can avoid that, you know? And sometimes they come and say, “so their parents don’t speak the language”, you know, “they don’t speak Spanish or they don’t speak English, and so are they going to be deported?” Or, “they are not white, are they going to be deported?” And so they repeat all these stereotypes from the schools, right. Or what they see or what they learned in the schools and um, yeah it is, it is– there is almost no point. They come with us to all the immigration stuff because we don’t usually leave them behind. But um, you know, I try to respect that they are kids and that they are learning and whenever they come up with questions we try to answer and the best way possible in trying to, you know, don’t scare them but tell them what’s going on. But I don’t feel like my situation has not been anything difficult and so it has not been that stressful.
Sophie: So like talking about like a multicultural family, has that influenced anything like in the schools? I know Harrisonburg’s are unique because they have a lot of languages spoken there. Is there any like anything different that you find in the schools when you have like a multicultural family like that?
Meghan: Like with the community, maybe like the other parents or teachers or anything like–
Evelin: You know I’m, I’m really bad because with this master, like I, I rely on my husband and how he connects. He works for the school system and so he takes the kids with him in the morning and he bring them– he comes with them in the afternoon. He’s pretty much the one who is in charge of that. I think the first year that Sammy was in Waterman, the way you know, I grew up with my parents coming to see me in school and bringing me like a snack at 10:00 AM. So I used to see my parents every day during school, and so I did that for, sent me the first year I went to have lunch with him every single day at 11:30 I was in the school. I will warm up his lunch and the microwave and I will jump in the car and be there. It’s so close, you know, it’s like four minutes away, that um, I get to know a lot about the teacher. I think that the teachers were kind of annoyed to have a parent there every single day, but I was able to see how they interact with the kids and set some boundaries with the teachers and with myself and expectations. Maybe they don’t get that kind of interaction with other parents. But for me, it’s like my parents did it for me. Why should I, if I’m able, why shouldn’t I do it for my kids? Um, yeah, I, there were a couple of things that I didn’t like it and I name it right away and she’s like, if you ever need to talk to– you know, she was referring in that very loud voice for child. And I’m like, okay, by the way, here I am. If you’re referring to the way that he’s communicating to me, why don’t you communicate with me and talk with the child and a different tone. Like don’t do that. So anyway, it was um– but I don’t quite relate with a school system, just because I just don’t have time. I leave work and I go to study. I sometimes have classes until 10.
Meghan: Oh 10 at night? Oh Wow. Um, let’s see. How does Harrisonburg compare with the capital back in Nicaragua? You know, big city, I’m assuming so. And then coming to Harrisonburg is relatively small…
Evelin: This is small but Nicaragua is also small and the city is not that big. I feel like the main issues– public transportation is awful. If you don’t have a vehicle you just… So I ride my bike, I walk because I was better off walking then waiting for the bus. So when I came here the first time, if I wanted to take the bus, I will have to walk a lot and then wait for the bus and then the bus will take forever. Actually I was able to get home in 15 minutes and it will take me an hour to ride the bus. So public transportation– I don’t enjoy driving. I hate it. If I can catch a ride or go with somebody else, I would love that. But um, yeah, public transportation, that was a big thing. The other is that the city is not, is not very welcoming, and doesn’t have like a main place where people can get together. Like in Nicaragua in the main cities you have like a, a park in front of the church. But people interact, and they have a common place, and in Harrisonburg downtown, if you’re not in a restaurant where are you? Like there is not a place with benches and a water fountain or something pretty where you can sit down and enjoy being with friends. I don’t see that.
Meghan: I guess was there like a– Did you, I guess observe or experience like a rich culture of um, people from Nicaragua or like I guess like Latinos in this community? Like did you see that? Did you experience it?
Evelin: You know, I experienced fear actually. Like I didn’t have– As I can say, you know, I have a lot of privilege and I can easily not worry about a lot of stuff. But working here, there was a nice lady that I was explaining to her, you know, sometimes I’m not here, can somebody else help you? And, and she was like, can you, you know, teach me how to, can I say deposit? And so I told her how to say deposit, she repeated. Withdrawal, and I say, do you know that in the library there is a nice program that you can use to learn a second language? And I use it, and she’s just like library? She didn’t know. She has been in the US for so many years. And I say, yeah, I will be in downtown today. I say, can we meet? It was like they would– we were going in circles around the town. They couldn’t find it, the library. So we finally met I think like um, close to community mennonite church, and then we walked down to the library. Then I took her to the library and we get our library card, and she’s like, ‘my son can use thi? and how much do you pay?’ So it’s not a membership it’s free. And we went and download Rosetta stone and the app on her cell phone and I explained everything. Then, she called her husband to pick us up. And then we– I remember seeing some bright lights flashing. And um, I thought, oh there must be an accident. It took, we were in the library maybe for an hour, an hour and 15 minutes. And then when we were– when her husband was coming to pick us up, those bright lights, those bright lights were– do you know Community Mennonite on 42? So the following entrance takes you through, close to the ice house and all that. So that was blocked. There was a police checkpoint. And so, um, her husband didn’t have any documents, and so he was coming to pick us up and then we got the phone call, and he starts saying, you know, I think this is a checkpoint. And then I remember the lights, then you connect everything. And I was like, oh my goodness. And he’s like, and I cannot go back because when you are in that strip, how can you go back? So he finally realized that he can turn into, I don’t know how that road, it’s more road, spangler sister, I don’t know, is a store. And so he, he went there and he even walked. It was a nightmare. It was a nightmare. I ended up like trying to find him. Then we found him. Then I say stay here or go pick up at the vehicle. I got pick up the vehicle. By then I didn’t have a citizenship. I was just a resident. I’m like, what if they stop me and I don’t know whose vehicle this is, you know, realize, I don’t know anything about his vehicle. Then I was in trouble. Finally, thank goodness, I found a way to the back road that connects that road with 42. Then I was looking for them. The main point is- those people almost got deported for going to the library. So my easy going experience with all the benefits and going wherever I want and travel wherever I want, it’s not the same. Then all the immigrants and the community that can– that’s why they just go to the poultry plant and work and go back home, because even going downtown sometimes can be risky.
Meghan: Yeah, it’s terrifying and totally unfair. Um, do you speak Spanish at home with your children?
Evelin: Both, yes. Sammy’s pretty good. Both of the kids are very, pretty bilingual and yeah, we uh, we usually go back and forth.
Meghan: Are there any other kind of cultural connections that you keep with them? Like keep at home?
Evelin: Uh, they always do their prayers in Spanish for like going to sleep and stuff like that. Um, because my mom and sister taught them that and so they had like (unintelligible). I dont know they sometimes, they talk to my mom and text her in Spanish and say this was a good day, you know, and writing in Spanish and stuff like that.
Sophie: Do they um– I know some of the schools do like the, they do like the classes in Spanish. Do you have them in those classes?
Evelin: Yeah. They’re both in the same program, in the dual immersion program.
Meghan: Cool. Um, do you, I mean obviously I’m sure you still communicate with your parents and all that. Do, do they come and visit often?
Evelin: Mhm. They come every year and stay one and a half month or so.
Sophie: And then do you ever visit them?
Evelin: I almost, no, because I, I have been in the US with the purpose of getting my citizenship. Now I got my citizenship like a month ago, but my certificate, my naturalization certificate, my name was misspelled. And just to fix that it’s going to take like close to $600 and maybe between six and 13 months. And they haven’t even sent me a letter saying that they had received the papers and I– I sent it back overnight so I know they got the papers. And so I’m stuck in this country for the next 13 months without a passport. And then whenever I get it I’ll have to get my passport. Yeah, I was going to Costa Rica for a, one of my classes and I had to do something else. Cannot leave the country without a passport.
Meghan: So you do have intentions of, I mean obviously traveling, but going back to Nicaragua?
Evelin: Yeah we don’t know yet if we’re going back to Nicaragua. We’re going to do like, um, service term and that’s usually between three and five years in one country. So we prefer to go to South America maybe. Yeah, we pretty much value the– for the kids to know that service is important.
Meghan: Yeah. And I’m sure it’s just like a really enriching experience like all around like, you know.
Evelin: Yeah. I think so.
Meghan: Yeah. I mean travel is so important I think. But um, let’s see. I guess, do you have any– I like this question. Do you have any like, advice for your younger self maybe before you came to the US? Is there anything that maybe now after living here for however many years, being married for almost 10, over 10 years. You said 2006. Yeah so 12 years. Is there anything that you would say, to you know, college grad, like to yourself, I guess. Any advice?
Evelin: Once again?
Meghan: Um, so I guess like after all this experience, you know, leaving your country and all these changes, is there any, anything you’ve learned, any advice that you’d give to your younger self?
Evelin: Just to be adaptable and wherever you are, just be yourself, learn the culture, takes several years, and be open and be adaptable. I think an open mind–and I have to adapt so much in this job and this culture, and what do you say and what you don’t say, and what the rituals– and yeah. Yeah, just be open. Um, I– there’s nothing that will prepare you for,, you know, the different scenarios you’re going to face, but take it easy. Always take it as a learning experience. Even when I get really upset, I’m like, ‘ah, I’m definitely learning something from this one’. Yeah, don’t take it personal. I’m like, sometimes I’m like, I should do anthropology, like learning cultures and study them. Um, everything is different and every person, I don’t know, has a way of expressing themselves and that’s not just about you, it’s about a lot more than that. And so I learned not to take anything personal and to always try to learn something from your experience and yeah, don’t let it go to you. Learn something from that experience.
Meghan: Very well put. I don’t think I have any more questions for you. Is there anything else you want to share? Anything specifically?
No, I hope that I didn’t go, you know, from the– too far away from the questions, say too many things…
Evelin: Yeah, I, I had um, I was helping with this research of about first and second generation of women in the United States, uh, and how they relate with healthcare and how they can identify sexual abuse or domestic violence in their house, especially with pregnant women. Those were fascinating interviews because it is just so difficult. You don’t have any resources or –Who do you talk to?
Sophie: If you don’t have a community, yeah that’s really hard.
Evelin: Yeah and, and, and I guess you, you are so vulnerable.
Meghan: Right you’re so dependent.
Sophie: Oh yeah.
Evelin: And when you don’t have immigration on your side, you, you even feel afraid of asking for help outside and all the police. What if they get to deport you? I don’t know. It’s just I have many lessons and included immigration because I have never had to struggle with them. With those. Yeah. Yeah. There’s so much privilege in my– Yeah.
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Open in new tab Ali Barranghi’s Story
Interview with Ali Barraghi
Introduction:
Everybody has a story to tell. With project, Immigrant Harrisonburg, it is our job to magnify those stories of immigrants. The following project is the story of Ali Barraghi. A Kurdish-American who immigrated with his family from Iran to Harrisonburg. We, Colette and Andriana, have listened to his story and have created an analysis of his experience. In the following paper we will present our methodological issues and insights, Ali’s departure, settlement and attitude toward his immigration process, and lastly Ali’s story with connections to our Sociology of Immigration class content.
Methodological Issues/Insights:
We scheduled to meet Ali at the Barnes and Noble on Burgess Road. When he walked in we greeted each other by shaking hands. From the start, it seemed that interviewing Ali was going to be like getting to know a new friend; you could tell that he was comfortable going into something that most people would be hesitant to do. The two of us, Colette and Andriana, originally chose to sit at a table, but Ali suggested that we find a corner that was more private and comfortable. After he introduced himself, we exchanged a few words about how he knew Professor Trouille. When we told him we were going to begin the interview, he even yelled “Testing 1-2-3, hi David!” into the microphone. You could tell he had a light-hearted attitude, and a sense of humor. Once we got into it, we first asked him about his family dynamic and where he was born. We originally created a list of questions to guide us through the interview, but once we got a conversation going, the list became unnecessary. The interview had a natural flow, similar to your everyday conversation. Around ten minutes into the interview, we were interrupted by a man who worked at the Barnes and Nobles who Ali actually knew. They greeted each other and exchanged a few words. Through this interaction, along with what we learned in the interview, it was clear that Ali had created friendships with many people in Harrisonburg. If you said his name to anyone, many would probably know who he was. As the interview went on it was clear that he enjoyed telling his story, because he had so many impactful moments in his life to share with us. Ali would sometimes mention something about his life that one of us could relate to in our home life. Every so often, we would spend a minute or so making small talk on the side whenever we found we had something in common. For example, when we asked Ali if he spoke english at home he said, “No, because my dad didn’t want us to forget our culture.” Since Andriana had a Thai mother, she noted that she also didn’t speak english at home, because her mother didn’t want her to lose the language being an Asian-American. Ali’s ease with telling his story was contagious. The more he would speak, the more comfortable we felt asking him questions. The interview ran for about 48 minutes. Once the microphone was off, we had a small conversation with him about his current soccer team before he left. In this way, it is clear that we took a strong but relaxing approach to this interview. We can both say, that his story was eye-opening and we enjoyed being able to hear it.
Departure Findings/Questions:
Ali’s departure story was fairly intense. Him and his four brothers at the time, were born in Tabriz, Iran. The family was made up of 5 boys, his mom and his dad. He noted that he was only in second grade when him and his family had to leave Iran. We questioned the word “had,” because in many immigrant stories, the family wants to leave their home country. This was not the case for Ali, and he explained that the primary “push” factor was that,
“My dad was on death row because he was a political figure. And since I’m Kurd, Kurdish people, we don’t have our own country, so he spoke out against the government and they caught him. And then, in Iran, if you’re on death row in Holidays they let you go back home to visit the family before, you know. And my dad decided just to all run away. And so we left.”
We were interested in how this process felt because he was so young. He explained that because he was so young, he had no idea what was going on and was just doing what he was told. After fleeing Iran, the departure only became more difficult. Ali and his family couldn’t use any of their vehicles to leave because that would draw attention; they also couldn’t use their passports. There only option was to leave on foot; so Ali, with his little brother in his arms and his family following ran through the mountains to Turkey. We couldn’t imagine having to go through something like this at a young age, but Ali with a lighthearted attitude said,
“we were getting chased by the government. And all I remember is running and getting shot at. So that was that. It was fun.”
Once they arrived in Turkey, he mentioned that things didn’t get any better due to the backlash that Kurdish people received from Turks. Although the context of reception was rather negative; Ali and his family settled there for two and a half years. During this time period, Ali and his brothers weren’t allowed to attend school due to the fact that they were Kurds. When we asked him what he did for the two and a half years, he indicated that there wasn’t really much that they could do. He noted that,
“everywhere we went we were labeled as a Kurd, we couldn’t work because we were Kurd. So we couldn’t have a job. And working wise, I was shining shoes, like polishing shoes. So that’s what I did. Stole gum, stole cigarettes; sold em. So yeah, that was Turkey.”
Although he and his brothers couldn’t work and go to school, he did mention that his parents were able to find work through small Kurdish establishments in Turkey. Besides the shoe polishing, his dad was able to get a job as a translator for the time being. Turkey would be Ali and his families last destination before their departure to America. While the description was slightly vague, Ali told us that because his father worked against the Iranian government the U.N. acknowledged that their family needed help finding a place to settle, and fleeing from the perpetual Kurdish backlash. We asked Ali how he and his family decided to choose America over other possible countries to come to, and he said,
“Well we didn’t have an option. The UN is like a lottery. We picked it and the US came up.”
Just like that, the U.N. would aid in getting Ali and his family on a plane and to America in the year 2000. From this point on, they would be starting their new lives as Kurdish-Americans, as soon as they touched down in Harrisonburg, Virginia.
Settlement Findings/Questions + Attitudes Findings/Questions:
Ali and his family, first came to the United States early in the year 2000. When they stepped off the plane life got a lot easier for eleven year old Ali. He comments upon their arrival that ‘a lot of weight was off our shoulder’ and that they felt welcomed when they first got to Harrisonburg, Virginia. They didn’t know anyone in Harrisonburg, but were connected with other Kurdish families from the moment they stepped off the plane, ‘when we came here there was a couple families at the airport waiting for us because the UN lets the refugee department here know and they send a Kurdish family’. When Ali first arrived in Harrisonburg there was a total of 80 Kurdish families within the city for them to connect with. The Kurdish community, along with other factors made life smoother; ‘I mean overall the life here was different. So it’s like, it was easier to adapt to and there was nothing to be scared of.’ However; a year after the families arrival, ‘9/11 happened, so it was even worse’. Ali was suddenly faced with discrimination; ‘for your teachers and friends to turn around and look at you like, why is your people doing this?’, life became hard in the face of segregation once again. Hard for Ali, and hard for his parents,
‘It was hard for us to watch them (Ali’s parents) go through that process again. Cause that’s like almost my whole life they went through it. So it was a new beginning for us to come here and than bam. All over again….And all these people are looking at us everywhere we go because she (Ali’s mom) has a traditional hijab and stuff on. It was like everywhere we went we would hear this aisle camera focus you know, so it was hard.’
Ali says none of his friends were caucasian by the time he reached high school due to this backlash. Even after all these unfortunate events, Ali keeps things positive, ‘I mean its life, you get used to it. You adapt to the situation. Which we were used to.’
Ali and his family soon moved to the ghetto of Newark, New Jersey for a year; ‘we lived in the middle of the ghetto. So its like there were shootings, stabbings, crackheads doing business on the stairs in the hallway doing drugs.’ However again, Ali stays positive about Newark by seeing it as ‘another life experience you adapt to.’ From Newark, they then moved back to Harrisonburg just in time for Ali to start high school. Ali went to Harrisonburg High School. Here, he was the President of the Kurdish Club and played football his senior year. He tried out for the soccer team his first three years; however, still receiving backlash from 9/11, he was cut from the team, ‘The coach wasn’t too open to Muslims. So yeah I got cut’. He received discriminatory treatment within social and sports life as well as academically. One example of this, was his unawareness of having to take the SAT in high school; ‘Everybody else knew cause the counselors would tell ‘em. But it was the foreigners who had no knowledge of anything.’ On top of this common treatment; the school had no programs to help Kurdish speaking children adapt to the different language and culture. Ali knew no English when he arrived. He was forced to learn English from cartoons such as Dragon Ball Z and the Looney Tunes, then apply the dialogue into the real world. In order to further adapt to the language, he asked all his Kurdish friends to speak only English around him; ‘we had lots of Kurdish friends and I told them not to speak to me in Kurdish. So it’s like, I could break out of my bubble and get comfortable. So like start speaking English. You know, so I got better at that.’
Once Ali graduated high school, his father moved the family to Portland, Oregon where they had extended family. It was here that Ali’s father opened the families first business; selling windshield wipers. This was a significant change in jobs as both his parents first got jobs at Harrisonburgs Cargill Turkey Factory. In Portland, they did well with the business but only stayed for two years. Inevitably, they moved back to Harrisonburg and began their first Hookah business called Brooklyn’s, and again they did well; ‘ we did very good cause we had to sell that place and open up a second place which was a lot bigger; which was Vibe.’ Eventually, they sold Vibe as well. Now, the family has a Hookah bar called Social, which was originally opened by Ali. Ali now runs Social, is an assistant coach for EMU men’s soccer and works as a fitness nutritionist. Ali is content with where he is now and has many options for his future; “I don’t know, there’s still so much to do…I’m trying to still figure it out”.
Conclusion:
In class, we discussed theories on push and pull factors as to why immigrants migrate. In contrary to many immigrants, Ali faced no pull factors for him coming to Harrisonburg. However with that being said, him and his family faced a huge push factor. There were structural changes within the Iran government which resulted on Ali’s father acting against the government. This ended in him on the list for death row, which inevitably pushed the family to flee their country. After listening to his story, we concluded that ideally, Ali and his family would have stayed in Iran for the rest of their lives if not for the push. They had jobs, family and a good life; and no reason to be pulled to America. Ali also identifies first with his Kurdish culture, and second with his American culture. Him and his family still speak Kurdish at home. Ali was president of the Kurdish club in high school and currently owns a hookah bar in town. So he is still involved in the culture of his previous country.
On top of them being pushed out of their country; they weren’t exactly welcomed with open arms to America. A little pushing from caucasian Americans occurred in America after 9/11. They experienced backlash in there country of migration, which isn’t uncommon. One thing that did create more comfort though was the Kurdish community in Harrisonburg. There were Kurdish families here to welcome them to the community and make the transition easier to manage. They didn’t know anyone at first when they came which contradicts theories in migrant networks. But knowing that there were families which shared similar experiences as them in the Kurdish community created a psych comfort.
Envitabally, Ali and his family pulled their extended families to Harrisonburg. He had a uncle who had migrated to Oregon, but who eventually brought his family to Harrisonburg to be with them. From stories like this is why the Kurdish community in Harrisonburg has rose since Ali first immigrated here; from 80 families to over 1,000 families. Social networks is typically a big pull factor; such as how Ali’s uncle came to Harrisonburg. This networking occurs in almost all other cultures as well. Many friends and family members will move if they know of people in a area. Social networking is a huge reason as to why Harrisonburg is such an immigrant hub.
In conclusion, although Ali faced many harsh changes from a young life, he keeps his outlook positive and his Kurdish culture close to heart. Ali follows his passions and leans into them wholeheartedly. A characteristic clearly attributed from his father who spoke out against their previous countries government for what he wholeheartedly believed. Although Ali isn’t risking his life for his passions, he is pushing his personal limits to what he can achieve. He owns a hookah bar, coaches and plays soccer, provides services as a independent nutritionist specialists while keeping close to his family and friends. Ali believes in being good and doing good; he truly adds greatness into the American melting pot.
Interview of Ali Barranghi
By Andriana Mesmer and Colette Toma
November 19, 2018 at 3:00 p.m.
COLETTE:
Where were you born and what was your family dynamic?
ALI:
Okay, I was born in Tabriz, Iran. A long time ago. There’s 5 brothers, no sisters. Um family dynamic; poor. I came from a very poor family. So it’s like everything we did in life was like hard work to get where we are now. I’ve been working since I was 14, no, 13. And everybody in the family has been working since then. And now we’re here now. After our fourth store.
COLETTE:
Fourth store? Okay, I guess, how long were you in Iran for?
ALI:
I was in Iran till second grade and then we had to leave.
COLETTE:
Okay, and why did you have to leave?
ALI:
My dad was on death row because he was a political figure. And since I’m a Kurd, Kurdish people, we don’t have our own country, so he spoke out against the government and they caught him. And then, in Iran, if your on death row in Holidays they let you go back home to visit the family before, you know. And my dad decided just to all run away. And so we left.
ANDRIANA:
Wow, that’s intense.
COLETTE:
So it wasn’t a hard decision for him to make, it was just like alright, I’m about to die Im coming back to my family, lets get out of here.
ALI:
I mean it was hard. Yeah the thing was him and my older brother ran away first. And then we all had to run away.
ANDRIANA:
So you didn’t all go together?
ALI:
No, cause like they found out that they had run away so they came after us. And I was in second grade.
ANDRIANA:
So how old were you?
ALI:
Six/Seven. And then, my little brother who was like three/four. Cause we’re all three years apart, so if I was seven, the other one was like four and the other one was one. So it’s like, we couldn’t take any vehicles with us cause we so we couldn’t use a passport to run away. So its like we ran, like running over mountains and shit. And then we were getting chased by the government. And all I remember is running and getting shot at. So that was that. It was fun.
Colette: It was fun..
ANDRIANA:
Like adrenaline rushing you mean?
ALI:
To be honest I don’t remember the adrenaline, I was just running. I was running. My mom had to carry my younger brother.
ANDRIANA:
So you were on foot?
ALI:
Oh yeah, we were crossing the mountain, yeah. And then I had to carry my younger brother. I mean, that’s too much for a seven year, old you know? And then we went to Turkey. Which was worse. Cause the Turks, Turkey doesn’t like the Kurds. So we lived there for two and a half years. I wasn’t allowed to go to school cause I was a Kurd. So its like two years of no school. And everywhere we went we were labeled as a Kurd, we couldn’t work because we were Kurd. So we couldn’t have a job. And working wise, I was shining shoes, like polishing shoes. So that’s what I did. Stole gum, stole cigarettes; sold em. So yeah, that was Turkey.
COLETTE:
So did you do that when you were like what, seven; you said you were there for two and a half years so like seven to nine years old.
ALI:
Basically, yeah. Well, ten. Ten and a half.
COLETTE:
Okay, and how were you labeled as Kurd? Was it how you looked?
ALI:
Language. Cause I mean, we didn’t know the language. So when we go there…
ANDRIANA:
People automatically know…
ALI:
They would know that your Kurd because Kurdistan is part of Iraq, Iran, Turkey and Syria. So it’s like when you go to Turkey, they know your a Kurd you speaking. So it’s like, they knew who we were. So yeah we couldn’t do anything.
COLETTE:
Was your dad and brother there too? Is that where they went?
ALI:
The whole family was there, yeah. They got there before we did, set everything up, and they were working. Just like the same way I was working, but they weren’t polishing shoes, there were other Kurdish establishments that were hiring so they were working there. So yeah, so my dad was a translator over there.
COLETTE:
And why did your dad originally go to Turkey? Did you all know other people that went to Turkey?
ALI:
No, no that was the closest. And Iraq during that time, we couldn’t go cause Saddam was still in power. So we couldn’t run there and Syria was too far so Turkey was the closest place to go.
COLETTE:
Okay and were did you all go after Turkey?
ALI:
We came here. We came in through the UN.
ANDRIANA:
What year? How old were you?
ALI:
Early 2000. 11, yeah I just turned 11. Cause we got here January so December I turned 11.
ANDRIANA:
What was the biggest deciding factor for your family to finally come here?
ALI:
Well we didn’t have an option. The UN is like a lottery. We picked it and the US came up.
ANDRIANA:
Did you come straight to Harrisonburg?
ALI:
Yeah, straight to Harrisonburg.
ANDRIANA:
Was it easy?
ALI:
I mean…
ANDRIANA:
How exactly did you guys get here?
ALI:
Well, airplane. The UN send us here. But when we got here it was a lot easier. A lot of weight was off our shoulder.
ANDRIANA:
It felt like relief…
ALI:
Yes. A lot. But the funny thing is that when we got here the year later 9/11 happened. So it was even worse.
ANDRIANA: Timing…
ALI:
Yeah, so it was like, we left Iran, left Turkey, and then got here. It was more segregation because were Muslim during 9/11.
ANDRIANA:
That’s when like it all sparked.
ALI:
Yeah and like its not; again for eleven and a half cause I was in seventh grade when it happened. For your teachers and friends to turn around and look at you like, ‘why is your people doing this?’
ANDRIANA:
Like they expect you to explain.
ALI:
Yeah, yeah I mean like that’s not even me, that’s the Talibas. Were over here they’re over there. So yeah, fun times.
COLETTE:
Alright, well I guess you said a year after you came is when 9/11 happened; so did you feel welcomed that first year you were here? Was there a large Kurdish community here?
ALI:
Yes. There were at least eighty families, now it’s over a thousand and some hundred.
COLETTE:
Dang did you know some of the families when you came here?
ALI:
No, no.
COLETTE:
Okay so it was purely you pulled from the lottery with the UN, came to Harrisonburg. just because they told you too and you didn’t know anybody here.
ALI:
No, nobody. When we came here there was a couple families at the airport waiting for us because the UN lets the refugee department here know and they send a Kurdish family, whoevers here to come pick us up at the airport.
ANDRIANA:
Just like any random family?
ALI:
Yeah
COLETTE:
Okay, so did you feel welcomed here the first year?
ALI:
Yes
COLETTE:
Okay and was it because of the Kurdish community or was it because of the entire community in general?
ALI:
I mean overall the life was here different. So it like it was easier to adapt to and there was nothing to be scared of.
COLETTE:
Okay so then 9/11 happened and you felt like there was some backlash; or so you said your friends and people were turning to you being like ‘why did this happen?’, so how did that affect you?
ALI:
I guess it made me stronger. Well, I guess I was already going through all this stuff so like I was already used to it. Like as a seven year old your running in the mountains and you get shot at, like what else is left. But the thing was, it was harder for my parents.
ANDRIANA:
Were they getting backlash or was it hard to watch you?
ALI:
It was hard for us to watch them go through that process again. Cause that’s like almost my whole life they went through it. So it was a new beginning for us to come here and than bam. All over again.
ANDRIANA:
It’s happening again in a new country when your trying to like leave it.
ALI:
Yeah. I mean it was tough for my mom. Cause she left her whole family over there and now she’s her by herself other than us. And all these people are looking at us everywhere we go because she has a traditional hijab and stuff on. It was like everywhere we went we would hear this aisle camera focus you know, so it was hard.
COLETTE:
So what jobs..
ALI:
McDonalds.
ANDRIANA:
Was that the first job you got?
ALI:
Yeah, McDonalds than Marshalls, Sheetz. I’ve had a lot of jobs.
COLETTE:
Jobs, so you’ve said you’ve had all types of jobs. I guess you worked at a gym.
ALI:
Well, I used to work out, but the thing is I’m an independent personal trainer. So I go to your gym, I don’t work at a specific gym. So I do my own pricing, they don’t do my pricing for me.
COLETTE:
Okay and when you first got here, what jobs did your parents have?
ALI:
Cargill
COLETTE:
What was it?
ALI:
Cargill, the turkey factory. Cause like to be honest when a foreigner come here, they don’t have any options to go anywhere else, as soon as they get here…
ANDRIANA:
Whatever can get you the money
ALI:
Not even that, it’s like the people around here, they stay to themselves. So if there’s a good job they don’t tell them. They take them to the shitty establishment and bam, you work there.
COLETTE:
Do your parents still work there?
ALI:
No, no not anymore. I’m working now so they’re relaxing now. Cause they took, what, eighteen years taking care of me so its like my turn now. There’s like five brothers, all of us working hard so they just get to relax.
ANDRIANA:
Yeah they get to relax until old age that’s what my dad says too. My dads always like make sure you get a good job so you can take care of me.
ALI:
Yeah so that was highschool life. Cause even highschool life wasn’t that great.
COLETTE:
Yeah just cause it was high school or like why?
ALI:
No cause when you go from seventh to senior year you have no friends other than the foreigners. That’s all we did until senior year i played football. And then I guess I was good so everyone was like ‘oh we’ll be your friends again’
ANDRIANA:
So did you have trouble making friends in high school? Or your only friends were a specific…?
ALI:
All my friends were African American, Hispanics and the Kurds. I had no caucasian friends. Until like senior year. Because they were all looking at me the same way.
ANDRIANA:
Yeah they didn’t warm up to you until…
ALI:
Yeah like they were all my best friends when I go there, sixth through seventh and then as soon as that happened it’s like…
ANDRIANA:
Really? They switched up?
ALI:
Oh yeah, yeah.
ANDRIANA:
Wow I thought you just came, wow thats messed up.
ALI: I mean its life, you get used to it. You adapt to the situation. Which we were used to.
COLETTE:
So your used to change now, how do you take change?
ALI: the same way. Like since my whole life I had to change situations, environments, people so like it’s easy for me now like *snap” like that I change.
COLETTE:
Okay, dang. So I guess you joined football in high school, where you a part of anything else? It didn’t have to be just in school.
ALI:
I was president of the Kurdish Club. I got cut for soccer Freshman, Sophomore…let David know; Freshman, Sophomore, and Junior year got cut.
ANDRIANA:
You got cut, why?
ALI:
The coach wasn’t too open to Muslims. So yeah I got cut.
ANDRIANA:
Wow that’s insane.
COLETTE:
Were you goalie in high school?
ALI:
Yeah my entire life. And then I got cut but then several years later I had two professional tryouts. Like I’m saying that throws you off. Why?
ANDRIANA:
Yeah…like I got cut from my high school team but now these professional teams want me.
ALI:
Yeah and the funny thing is, is I got injured in both try-outs. So like all I do is now, well, I stopped coaching, I used to coach at EMU. I was assistant coach for men’s soccer. So its like maybe I’ll take my skills somewhere else. Bigger school maybe.
COLETTE:
Okay. Did you have any expectations before; I guess we’re now back tracking; but did you have any expectations before coming to Harrisonburg, to America?
ALI:
The thing was back home, we used to see the movies. So its like you know Wild West, Detroit and the shooting New York and stuff so like when we got here it was the opposite, like whats going on this is not the movies we saw. Cause like back home it was illegal to have American channels. So it’s like when the DVDs come everything is censored. Or not DVDs, cassette players, everything is censored. So we’ll see like bits and pieces and then we came here and it wasn’t the same and it was like uncensored, I guess. So it’s different.
ANDRIANA:
So America was like an uncensored movie.
ALI:
Basically, yeah. So yeah, it was different. But it was easy to adapt to.
COLETTE:
Okay yeah cause you’re used to all this adaptations and change and stuff. You said back home, so do you still consider Iran home?
ALI: Well all my families there. Everybody in my family is there. I mean I have two homes; here and there. But like I can’t really go back and live there anymore because well I can’t go back period. Cause my name is on the list.
COLETTE:
Really, so you can never go back?
ALI:
No, the last time I went was before eighteen cause when you turn eighteen in Iran government you have to join the military for two years so if I go back, I have to join the military. And then when I join the military the US would be like why are you joining the Iran military and not the American. So I could lose my citizenship here and my citizenship there.
COLETTE:
So you have Dual Citizenship?
ALI:
Yes.
COLETTE:
Oh wow, okay so you said…before you were eighteen did you go back at all?
ALI:
When I was; 2006. No I lied 2004.
COLETTE:
Okay so you went back once.
ALI:
Yes.
COLETTE:
And what was that experience like?
ALI:
I mean it was very brief. Still had to smuggle myself back and then forth. No really I couldn’t go back.
COLETTE:
Smuggle so like you walked there and walked back?
ALI:
No well this time we had like cousins in Iraq who came with us, yeah so it was easier. I mean it was still horses going across the mountain and stuff but there was nobody shooting at us.
COLETTE:
It was still a little risky so what made you go back?
ALI:
Grandparents. My mother wanted to see them because she hadn’t seen them since, what, ‘97 so she had to go see her parents.
COLETTE:
Has you grandparents or family there ever come visit you over here?
ALI:
They cant. They can’t cause US and Iran don’t get along.
COLETTE:
So they can’t leave at all?
ALI:
We can go visit them but they can’t come here. And then you have to apply for a bunch of crap for them to come here and it takes, what, its been taking like eighteen/nineteen years.
ANDRIANA:
So it’s not worth it.
ALI:
No, no. Cause we applied for it in 2002, no I lied, 2004 we became a citizen. And since then we’ve been waiting on paperwork.
ANDRIANA:
You’re still waiting?
ALI:
Oh yeah, cause US and Iran don’t get along. We’re not best friends. So they can’t come here.
COLETTE:
Okay. You said mostly your mom and her parents, how often does she talk to them like on the phone and stuff?
ALI:
Well, she could go back because she didn’t keep my dads last name she kept her own. So she could go back.
COLETTE:
Oh okay so she has no connection technically to your dad because your dad is the one that was banned.
ALI:
Basically, yeah. Cause I have the same last name. Only my younger brother could go because times have changed so they’re not going to take a little kid and put him in jail. So its like those two could go back. But I can’t go back.I haven’t seen my grandparents since 2004.
COLETTE:
Okay, its 2018 now.
ALI:
Well yeah, ‘19 almost. Next month.
ANDRIANA:
You just made me think of the New Year.
ALI:
I know Christmas in two weeks.
ANDRIANA:
Okay so digging into, I want to know, do you practice any religion currently? Or did you?
ALI:
The thing is, my family is Muslim, we practices Islam my whole life. The thing is I see myself as just do good to people. Cause I see religion as something to hold you back, to keep you in control.
ANDRIANA:
So you don’t have a very specific belief?
ALI:
No, I believe in everything.
ANDRIANA:
I agree, I have like the exact same belief.
ALI:
As long as you have a good heart. I treat people nice. Thats how I see it. And believe in something. So I believe in God. Thats it.
COLETTE:
So you said your whole family is Muslim..
ALI:
Yes.
COLETTE:
So when did you…well, so you don’t practice anymore, right?
ALI:
I mean, to be honest nobody in the family really still does, like they don’t practice. My parents have been mellow since the beginning, they were never forcing us. Cause the more strict you are the more idiot you become later in life, you know?
ANDRIANA:
Yeah that’s true, that’s a good mentality to have.
ALI:
So its like my dad was very mellow, he gave us the opportunity to decide what we wanted.
ANDRIANA:
Thats nice.
ALI:
Oh yeah, cause he gave us the option. He’s like this, this cause like my dad went to school for religion so like he got his masters and everything.
COLETTE:
Okay, so he’s aware of everything, okay.
ALI:
He’s aware of everything. He teaches, he was very mellow about it so its like, ‘you guys are grown make your own decisions’
ANDRIANA:
And do what you want to do…
ALI:
Yeah. Cause like I’m not forcing you to one thing.
COLETTE:
Okay, and then what about language when you came here? Did you all know any English?
ALI:
No, like all we knew was ‘ABC’ and then when we came here; I don’t know have you heard of Dragon Ball Z?
COLETTE:
No.
ANDRIANA:
I have, yes.
ALI:
That’s how I learned my English.
COLETTE:
Dragon Ball Z?
ANDRIANA:
You ever heard of that?
COLETTE:
No…
ANDRIANA:
Did you have the actually ball that you can throw?
ALI:
No, no I didn’t but I’m saying like that’s how I learned my English.
ANDRIANA:
Did you watch the show?
ALI: Yeah cause like that’s how I learned English. The Looney Tunes.
ANDRIANA: That was like your first learning of the language, Dragon Ball Z?
ALI:
Well we used to watch cartoons but not when we got here so like that’s all that was on TV cause I was still young and watching cartoons. That’s how I learned my English. By watching cartoons.
ANDRIANA:
So did you just base it off that and just used that in the real world?
ALI:
Yeah, yeah and just used that. Cause like we had lots of Kurdish friends and I told them not to speak to me in Kurdish. So it’s like, I could break out of my bubble and get comfortable. So like start speaking English. You know, so I got better at that.
COLETTE:
Did the Harrisonburg schools, did they have anything to help you?
ALI:
No, it was shit.
COLETTE:
Okay so you were forced to just use English for like Math and like all these classes you had to take in English.
ALI:
Yeah Harrisonburg schools were stupid. It’s like I didn’t know I had to take the SAT until like a year after I graduated.
COLETTE:
Oh my gosh, okay.
ALI:
No, yeah cause they weren’t telling any foreigners, they don’t tell you anything.
ANDRIANA:
Yeah they want you to figure it your on your own.
ALI:
No, not even that. Everybody else knew cause the counselors would tell ‘em. But it was the foreigners who had no knowledge of anything. So they didn’t tell us anything.
ANDRIANA:
So they subject you basically.
ALI:
Yeah, cause Harrisonburg is a very closed minded city, so everybody in the city..
ANDRIANA:
Yeah, is it still do you think?
ALI:
Some parts.
ANDRIANA:
But do you think it’s gotten, is the school system specifically better?
ALI:
It’s still shit.
ANDRIANA:
…Still shit, damn.
ALI:
Cause I had to tell my younger brother who is in high school now to take the PSAT. And he took it. Cause the counselor didn’t tell him. They still don’t. They still see you as an immigrant. Even though, he was born here. So like they still see you as a different person. They don’t consider you as one of them. Even though like this whole nation was once where immigrants came and started this country.
ANDRIANA:
Yeah I was about to say, we made this country.
ALI:
It’s a melting pot, it’s a melting pot of like every other culture around this world. The Asians came for the railroad, the Irish.
ANDRIANA:
Yeah, where would we be..
ALI:
The Italians. For real.
COLETTE:
Well I guess, your family has like businesses and stuff…
ANDRIANA:
Oh yeah…when did that all start up like how did the idea come up?
ALI:
Well my dad first started up with a windshield business when we lived in Oregon.
COLETTE:
So you lived in Oregon?
ALI:
Yeah, Portland. Well, we we lived, we lived around. We lived in Harrisonburg then to Newark New Jersey. We lived in the ghetto for a whole year. Like it was terrible.
COLETTE:
Yeah Newark is terrible.
ALI:
And we lived in the middle of the ghetto. So its like there were shootings, stabbings, crackheads doing business on the stairs in the hallway doing drugs.
COLETTE:
Yeah Newark was a murder capital.
ALI:
So it’s like, I was eighth grade. Still another life experience you adapt to, so that was that. And then we, my dad, if we would have stayed there we would have been very wealthy.
ANDRIANA:
If you stayed in Newark.
COLETTE:
Why?
ALI:
Business opportunity. So much, so much. But the thing was my dad moved back because of us so we wouldn’t get affiliated with gang members. And that’s what all our apartments were. So it’s like, it was like one two three. The apartment we lived in was affiliated with the Bloods and then right across the street it was the Crips. So it’s like everyday was shooting in the roads and stuff. So it’s like you couldn’t really go out and do anything and there was no school buses in New Jersey so we had to walk to school. Other than transit bus. But transit bus like you have to pay for it so it’s like, we’ll just walk. So it was like, what, five miles a day. Back and forth. Walking. And like seeing people get jumped and fights. Normal stuff.
COLETTE:
Normal stuff. Right.
ALI:
Well to me it is.
ANDRIANA:
Do people like, did you get any backlash there?
ALI:
Not really.
ANDRIANA:
Because there’s just so much more going on.
ALI:
Not even that cause our parents, like, raised us better. So it’s like we had friends who were Kurds as well, but they were getting affiliated with it but we just like step back. So its like you guys do your own thing we’re gonna stay home and play video games. And not affiliate with you all.
ANDRIANA:
Good idea, yeah.
ALI:
So yeah, that was life there. We moved back here, we moved back here my Freshman year. High school. Graduated high school and then my dad decided to move to Oregon because we had family there. We lived in Portland. So my dad opened up a windshield business. That did well, but the weather was terrible. Because like what you have two years of no rain. It’s all sun. And then the rest is live all freezing rain. So it’s like we moved back, my dad opened up his first Hookah bar. It was called Brooklyn’s, downtown. We did well. Well we did very good cause we had to sell that place and open up a second place which was a lot bigger; which was Vibe. Vibe was doing well, and then we sold it. And then when we sold it not even a year they had to shut down.
ANDRIANA:
Why?
ALI:
Well the shooting happened, somebody died in there. So the shooting, somebody got killed. The thing I noticed is that every business we had, after we sold it, they just crumbled. I don’t know why.
ANDRIANA:
Like any business that started behind you?
ALI:
Yeah, cause like, we sold the business to them so they tried to continue it. I guess because of the culture, cause hookah is part of our culture. So it’s like, if you have no knowledge of it..
ANDRIANA:
You’re not gonna thrive in it?
ALI:
Yeah, it’s like opening a Mexican restaurant, but like, all the cooks are Asian. You know? It’s not gonna succeed, because you have no laws of culture, so you’re just out there blind.
ANDRIANA:
Yeah.
ALI:
The same thing with Vibe, doing great and then we sold it, bam, dude like less than six months, almost a year, opened, and then closed down.
COLETTE:
Who did you sell it to?
ALI:
It was a Caucasian dude.
COLETTE:
Okay
ALI:
Yeah, and then I opened the one right on Neff besides,
ANDRIANA:
Social?
ALI:
Yeah, Social. I opened that place up, cause my dad wanted nothing to do with it. So I was like, I’ll open one up. Just to fix our name, because everybody used to think Vibe was still us. So, I opened the place up to fix our name, and then my dad out of nowhere decided to come out of retirement. He’s at the store working too, so it’s like, I let everybody think he’s the owner so nobody comes to me, he deals with it. I just deal with the paperwork
ANDRIANA:
He does all the dirty work?
ALI:
Well, it’s not really dirty work when I do everything else, behind the books, you know what I’m saying?
ANDRIANA:
Yeah, so he just deals with the people in the front?
ALI:
Yes! The needy people
ANDRIANA:
Yeah the people who need everything right then and there.
ALI:
The ones that come in who are very needy, I’m like, “pops go ahead, you got it.”
ANDRIANA:
“I’ll stay back here”
ALI:
I’ll stay behind the bar.
COLETTE:
So you run the bar, and you’re also an athletic trainer?
ALI:
Okay, I run the bar, i’m the assistant coach, was doing it together, and on the side I was doing personal training, and I’m also a fitness nutritionist. So it’s like three jobs.
COLETTE:
Okay, are you still an EMU assistant coach?
ALI:
No, season’s over, and like I said; I’m probably not going back, cause maybe, I don’t know, I’ll go somewhere else.
ANDRIANA:
Do something else, yeah!
ALI:
Go to a different school, something?
COLETTE:
Go to a different school and leave Harrisonburg? Or go to a different school in this area?
ALI:
In this area, or maybe leave. I don’t know, there’s still so much to do. I haven’t decided. I’m not going to New Jersey, because I’m qualified for the Red Bulls soccer team, youth team. So I can apply to that. I already talked to someone, that said I have an 80% chance of getting hired for the goalkeeper coach. So yeah there’s so much to do, I can open up my own second place, I don’t know.
ANDRIANA:
So many options!
ALI:
I’m trying to still figure it out
ANDRIANA:
What is the year span of the first business to like…
ALI:
Well from 2009 to 2010 was the first time, and then we sold that in 2011. Six months later, we opened the second place up, but then we took a year and a half break from Vibe to Social.
ANDRIANA:
So in that year in a half break what did you guys do?
ALI:
We hustled; I did Uber I did lyft, I was doing personal training.
COLETTE:
When did you go to Oregon? So you went to Harrisonburg, went back to Newark?
ALI:
2008, we went to Oregon and came back 2009.
COLETTE:
Oh, so you were only there for a year, but you weren’t because family was there.
ALI:
Yeah, I know the families here now because they moved here too.
COLETTE:
Oh so you took them back with you?
ALI:
Well 10 years later they decided to move down here. So yeah, that was that.
ANDRIANA:
I wanted to know if the businesses, reflect your culture? Do you think it helped maintain or shows Harrisonburg a little snippit?
ALI:
Well the thing is like it has a culture that people around here, so they know about like Kurds, because like all the stores we opened it up. So they have knowledge of who we are. So it’s like it opened up people’s eyes because like we have customers from Lexington coming like they have no clue, who are the Kurds? Now they know who we are, but people from Crozat near Charlottesville, they come here and they were like, there were hella backward. Now they’re more cultured. They try our food. Yeah. So yeah, it’s helped us a lot.
Andriana: Do you think that the Kurdish community is strong in Harrisonburg?
ALI:
Very, very strong. The thing was like anything we do, we’re all united. Like anything we do..
ANDRIANA:
Reflects on?
ALI:
Yeah, it’s just their image. So it was like anything we do negative look, bam, because that’s how the city is. The Kurds are “terrible” people.
ANDRIANA:
So it’s like one person could do something bad, and it would be like all of you are bad.
ALI:
It’s like that for all of Harrisonburg, like Hispanics do something bad and it’s like, oh, they’re all bad because one person messed up. The Kurds are the same way. Arabs are the same way.
ANDRIANA:
Probably anyone who isn’t Caucasian?
ALI:
Facts, right! Because that’s how the city is.
COLETTE:
So does that make you feel like you have to tip toe a little more, or you have to be cautious?
ANDRIANA:
Or are you used to it?
ALI:
I guess both. I’m used to it because I’ve lived here, but like it’s still different in a way because sometimes you gotta be careful. Plus now I’m the owner of a store so I got to be a lot more cautious.
ANDRIANA:
Yeah because then it will reflect on…
ALI:
Everything. Not just the business, my family, because like anywhere you go like, Oh, you’re Ali’s brother, you have the same last name so we can’t really affiliate with you. So. Yeah.
ANDRIANA:
Do you identify with your American culture?
ALI:
Our pride is so high for Kurdish-American not American-Kurdish, so like the Kurd always comes first.
ANDRIANA:
So you identify with one more than the other, definitely?
Ali: Yes, but either way we’re still American, but like the Kurd always comes first no matter where we go. Because our people, our pride is so high. So it’s like, Kurd always comes first. So even in Iran, we were Kurdish-Iranian. We weren’t Iranian-Kurds,we’re Kurd-Iranians. Like Iraqi, it’s not Iraqi-Kurds, it’s Kurdish from Iraq.
ANDRIANA:
Do speak the language at home?
ALI:
Yes.
ANDRIANA:
Do you speak any English at home?
ALI:
No. Because my dad didn’t want us to forget our culture.
ANDRIANA:
That’s how my mom was, because I’m half Thai. So I would speak only Thai at home.
COLETTE:
So your entire family, like five brothers and your two parents. You all live in the same house?
ALI:
Culture, we all live there, so my brother has his wife and the kid there too, in the basement,
COLETTE:
So it was just going to always be like that?
ALI:
So we built a house next to it, just expanded.
COLETTE:
You had also said that like having a job, you would take care of your parents now even though your dad came out of retirement.
ALI:
Yeah!
COLETTE:
So it’s all just part of the culture?
ALI:
Yes it’s all part of the culture
COLETTE:
You all are staying together no matter what?
ALI:
Yes, no matter what because the family that eats, they all stay together.
ANDRIANA:
You eat together, you know there’s a saying, oh, I forgot the rest of it.
ALI:
The thing is, our culture is like if the family goes hungry, you’re hungry. So it’s like we all eat together.
ANDRIANA:
And if you’re all down, you’re all down together?
ALI:
Yeah, and you all come up together. So if you see my dad struggling, I’m struggling too. So it’s not just on one person’s shoulder, it’s all of us.
COLETTE:
So would you say your culture is kind of like a community, because American culture seems to be very individualistic.
ALI:
Yes, ours is not like that.
COLETTE:
So would you say you’re more community centered rather than?
ALI:
Yes but it’s not really communities, it’s more family centered. It’s all about the family. Family always comes first.
ANDRIANA:
Well you said that Kurdish community here is very strong too, so would you say your “family” is only your blood related family, or would you say you have family outside of that
ALI:
To be honest, if you dig back to ancient history, we’re probably some way related to the Kurds here too. Because like my grandfather and my great grandfather used to go back and forth between Iraq, because the only job you could have had back then, because we were Kurds, they smuggled cigars and cigarettes and stuff. They probably had some kind of relatives there that we have no knowledge of, so it’s possible.
ANDRIANA:
So you’re ancestry is all connected?
ALI:
But the thing is none of us, like if we try to look into you’re not going to find it. Because we don’t have records of it.
ANDRIANA:
You’d have to dig so deep.
ALI:
Not even that, there is none. There is none, it’s not like here. Over here you could date back to anything back in dinosaur ages, whatever it is. Not like that because there were no records of it. Yeah. Everybody was scared of how many kids they had. So there was no records of it.
ANDRIANA:
So do you plan to stay in Harrisonburg? For like the rest of your life?
ALI:
I don’t know yet. I have no clue.
ANDRIANA:
Too Far ahead?
ALI:
Too far ahead. I plan one day ahead because I might not wake up tomorrow.
ANDRIANA:
That’s true. Do you like Harrisonburg?
ALI:
I don’t mind it, I realized I got to sometimes dumb down, because i’m at the Bar, I’ve talked to people, had conversations. I realized that like, I need to mellow down. Act like a “bro.”
ANDRIANA:
Kinda assimilate to other people?
ALI:
Basically. I gotta get down to their level because they have no knowledge of anything in the world. So I’m like all we can talk about is..
ANDRIANA: It can only go so far.
ALI:
To be honest, it can’t really go far, because like they have no knowledge of anything else but America.
ANDRIANA:
So it’s like a hey, how are you conversation?
ALI:
Basically, how is your day? Like what do you go through as you do today? So i’m basically a psychiatrist behind the bar. I’ll listen to your problems and give you advice because you’re not going to listen, but I’m gonna give you advice
COLETTE:
Anymore of your story you want to share?
ALI:
Well my parents are open to marriage outside of culture if that’s important. Because my brother’s wife is Filipino. She’s a Filipino, Roman Catholic. So yeah.
COLETTE:
Yeah, I definitely have a few friends who were raised Muslim that it’s not okay for them to be like..
ALI:
It depends who the parents are.
COLETTE:
Yeah. I guess that’s true. What about not just man and woman marriages and stuff like that. How’s your family with that sort of stuff?
ALI:
They’re open minded.
COLETTE:
Pretty sweet. Okay, cool.
ALI:
I Mean that’s not really my business, like our family’s business. So like if you’re into it, go for it, whatever you’re into.
COLETTE:
What are your political views?
ALI: I really don’t have any. Every time I vote it’s been liberals, because I didn’t care about anybody else. I think the only time I actually voted for somebody was Obama, his first term. And that was it, I don’t really pay attention because it brings negativity to my life and the way the world is going, everybody’s opinions are irrelevant to somebody else, so I can’t really voice my opinion. Someone will be like, oh no, yours was wrong, and then when you say something, I’m like, oh yours is wrong, and then she says, oh yours is wrong. So we can’t really agree on something. The way the society is going, it’s like everybody’s opinion is wrong.
ANDRIANA: Because everyone has such a different opinion.
ALI:
Because like back in the day it was a lot easier, we all agreed on something. Now a days we don’t because of the way social medias going, the news, the President, so like we can’t really agree on anything. That’s why we left Iran, because it was like that then. Because I think America is 25 years behind everywhere else in the world, but people here think we’re so much ahead on everything. We’re behind. The stuff I was going through in Iran, is happening here now at this time when we’re supposed to be so much more ahead of everyone else in the world.
ANDRIANA:
If you had a choice, would you have came to Harrisonburg? Were you too young to decide or does it not even matter?
ALI:
It doesn’t really matter. Everyone we would’ve went it would have been the same thing. The same 9/11 would have happened. Same thing. If I had the option i’d go to Europe.
ANDRIANA:
To Europe, oh my god that sounds great. Just like no America at all?
ALI:
Because half of my dad’s relatives live in Europe. My aunt lives in Finland,Helsinki. My cousin lives in Manchester, I have a cousin that lives in London, I have family in Germany and a family in Italy, which they don’t know we exist because like I dated some stuff back that was actually available. We have a bunch of Italian family that are in Italy now and that dated back to Renaissance ages that have the same last name as we did. They were from a very wealthy family in Fiorentino.
COLETTE:
Did you do one of those like “23 and me,” is that what you mean by dated back, like heritage.com?
ALI:
Yeah, something like that. I was randomly on there and typed my last name and it was like You have all this family in Italy, and there’s a dude on the Italian national team who has a very similar last name to mine and it has the same meaning. So I know we have family around and my grandfather was fluent in Russian, so he could’ve been Russian. I know we’re part German as well, because when that trial came in they went everywhere.
COLETTE:
So you talk a lot about keeping negativity out and bringing positivity in. Sorry, you don’t talk a lot about it but it kind of just seems to be a theme of yours.
Ali:
My whole life has been negative so I try to stay positive.
ANDRIANA:
That’s good because I feel like in some cases, people would have experiences like yours and be down for the rest of their lives.
ALI:
I realized that I don’t even get offended at stuff anymore. Like my friends come and they joke, they make a bunch of terrorist jokes.I just laugh at it.
ANDRIANA:
It doesn’t affect you at all?
ALI:
No as long as parents aren’t involved, I don’t really care. They make a bunch of jokes but it doesn’t really hurt anymore. It used to in the beginning, it was tough in seventh grade.
COLETTE:
When you were in seventh grade, did you stand up to those jokes?
ALI:
I mean there was fights. There was not a week that I didn’t get in a fight, over some students.
ANDRIANA:
Did you think it was going to get better?
ALI:
At the time, no. Then senior year hit I play football, and I’ve gotta sword it seems like. It wasn’t a full ride, but like if I were to play one more year, I would have had a full ride to Tech.
COLETTE:
For football?
ALI:
Yeah. Well I guess that’s when people wanted to start being my friend because people were like, “Oh Ali he’s good enough,” and I was like, “you all suck, get out of my life I don’t affiliate with y’all.” Then I turned to my friends over there, my hispanic friends, and i’m like, “Hey!” This was American football, not soccer.
ANDRIANA:
Yeah, I assumed that.
ALI:
I should’ve played in high school. I could’ve played my senior year and I was like hmm?
ANDRIANA:
What made you not?
ALI:
Because I was scared I’ll get cut again because they didn’t give me a specific reason why I got cut. They just cut me. He didn’t tell me to work on this for next season.
COLETTE:
Did you keep playing soccer outside though? With friends?
ALI:
Yes, everything I learned about soccer was from Youtube, because I didn’t get the training in high school, because I got cut so I was watching Youtube. I haven’t missed a Man United game because I’m a big Manchester United fan. I haven’t missed a game since ‘98. I could wake up at like 7:00 AM to watch the games. So it’s like everything I learned is from watching tv, again, just like English and watching cartoons.
COLETTE:
I guess you got injured for both your tryouts, but what professional teams did you try out for?
ALI:
Well, one was a Scandinavian team, that was like a tier 4 team. The other one was a division 5 German team. At the division 5 German team, I messed up my shoulder, which is still messed up, and then the Scandinavian team, I tore my meniscus. After that I was like, hmm, I guess professionals not for me. So I started coaching. I was coaching at Fort Defiance high school, and then Broadway high school assistant coaches, and then EMU 2 years later for 2 seasons. By coaching a college I realized I could easily make the teams.
ANDRIANA:
Based off what?
ALI:
The talent of the schools we played. Even like watching some JV games, if I had the proper training I would have made it.
ANDRIANA:
The college team?
ALI:
Oh yeah, definitely.
ANDRIANA:
I thought you were talking about professional.
ALI:
Professional, I can see myself not D1, but D2 maybe D3. Also I didn’t get to go to college because I had to work, and I didn’t take the SAT.
ANDRIANA:
So after high school you dove straight into work?
ALI:
Yes, Work.
ANDRIANA:
Was that in the first windshield business?
ALI:
Well I graduated in ‘06. Yeah, 2006 I graduated high school. I went to Blue Ridge and realized school wasn’t for me; I didn’t want to go to elementary school all over again. That’s what it felt like, and then I saw my parents were struggling so we started working. I started working at Marshalls.
ANDRIANA:
Okay. So this is when you start working at Marshall’s and Mcdonald’s?
ALI:
No, Mcdonald’s was junior year of high school, and then, Marshall’s, and then Sheetz. Walmart for a year, a year and a half because I went back again, and then I’ve been working at the restaurant since then.
COLETTE:
What about your brothers, did they go straight into business after high school too?
ALI:
One is at EMU doing business, and I was his coach for soccer because he plays goalie. One just came back from the Philippines with his wife, he got his bachelor’s in the Philippines for a biochemist, and his wife has a bachelor’s for RN so they could all easily work here. My older brother just graduated for bioengineering at EMU and now he lives in northern Virginia, and he wants to continue school to be a surgeon. Then the younger one is in 10th grade now. So that’s everyone.
ANDRIANA:
Well thank you for letting us interview you and sharing your story.
ALI:
You’re very welcome.
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Jose “Pepe” Rojas
Interview with Jose "Pepe" Rojas
Summary
Jose “Pepe” Rojas was born in Santiago, Chile and lived as an only child with his mother. He grew up in a dysfunctional family. His father, while very smart and artistic, was lazy, drunk, and violent. He left Pepe’s and his mother when was five years old. His fondest memories of Chile were playing football with his many friends. As a young adult, Pepe became heavily involved in drugs. However, his whole life turned around when one of his friends invited him to attend church. At first, Pepe had no interest in church but reluctantly decided to attend after his friend’s invitations. It is here, where he discovered the power of Jesus and Christianity. He later met a woman in the church who would become his wife, and they went on to have three kids. Due to his love for justice, he proceeded to become a missionary and moved to Brazil to receive training with Youth with a mission, Y1. He worked with them for many years, moving to Africa, Honduras, and finally the United States. He currently is a pastor at Grace Covenant Church and continues to preach his message of acceptance
A Citizen of the World
Pepe Rojas spent a significant amount of his life outside of the US before finally migrating here. Pepe has traveled a significant amount already and lived in numerous places and countries. This lifestyle of frequent traveling makes it so that he would not have any apprehensions about traveling far away, and possibly would be aiming to travel somewhere regardless, if not the US. As a result of this, he doesn’t have any social ties that are holding him down into any one place. Pepe does feel like he’s a part of this country, but he also doesn’t feel bound to a specific country either. In that way, yes, he does seem to feel a part of America, but no, he doesn’t seem to feel “American” any more or less than he feels Brazilian, African, etc. despite this, he has mentioned applying for citizenship back in Denver many years ago, so he has likely gone through the naturalization process and is an American citizen. When asked what he felt that he left behind in Chile and Brazil he replied:
…because I was living in so many places, I didn’t have the, the strong connection with the country. I was, I feel like I’m I am a citizen of the world… Some people are very connected with the country and my food, my bread, or the weather or I am not, I’m completely different.
Giving Back
The factor of his immigration was an invitation to be a part of a conference called Mercy Ministries. After becoming a Christian, he wanted to train to be a missionary and volunteer in humanitarian efforts throughout the world. His involvement with youth with a mission, aka Y1, led him to aid in Equatorial Guinea, Africa. The organization that was organizing this conference considered his work to be a “mercy ministry”. They were curious about his ministry, so he flew to Tyler, Texas to meet with them. This was his first exposure to America.
Eight years later, after finishing aid in a relief effort for Honduras resulting from a hurricane, he and his family believed it was time to move on. How they actually made the decision to come to the US not a normal pull factor compared to what we learned in class. When asked why he came to the US he replied, “we asked to the Lord ‘what is next, where we go’? And we feel that the Lord says go to the United States” This just contributes to what makes Pepe’s immigrant experience so unique.
A Man of Faith
The primary pull source of his migration to the US was the international Christian mercy ministry known as Y1. He had been working with Y1 in various countries for very many years at this point. He knew that he could move to the US with Y1 as he has done in many of these other countries. Y1 would provide him and his family housing through an affiliated organization. This organization was well acquainted with Y1, and provided housing to him and other members for a very low cost. In summation, his housing was provided to him because of the very good relationship between Y1 and this housing org. He also had a pre-established social group through Y1. He had made friends through volunteering, and some of those members he had befriended lived in the United States. His friends helped support him while he was volunteering in the US and could not be paid a salary. He also had Y1 as a whole, as a social group. It could act as a community, or common ground with other members he did not know, that was already established in the US. He had many resources to get him to the US, and to establish himself with, as well as a social group. The only hindrance was the lengthy process of acquiring permanent residence, and his not having a salary.
Integration
Another important concept to discuss and reflect against this interview is an immigrant’s experience with integration. Pepe’s experience was slightly alternative to the norm in this category as well. He didn’t have to navigate a new labor market. Because he was brought here through Y1, he was given an occupation as a volunteer, eventually as a pastor in the church, and provided assistance in various forms, including through friends and acquaintances he had made years earlier who had since moved to America. He also didn’t face as much discrimination as others around him due to his good English and position in the church, which I’ll go into later.
What was similar about Pepe’s immigration to the immigrant experience we learned in class was his struggle for a visa. He could not yet legally be paid a salary on account of him not having a permanent residence. He applied for a religious worker visa, being told the process would take six months. It ended up taking about five years. This exemplifies that coming to the US for any type of reason can be a long and difficult process.
Reception in America
He received a considerably warm reception when he moved here. There were a few contexts of reception that lent favorably to this. One, he settled in Denver, Colorado. In Denver, the public has both a positive perception and attitude towards Hispanic people. In Denver, there’s a large Latino influence. For example; the largest Cinco de Mayo festival in the country is held there. People have embraced the Latino community there, so there’s much less hostility or aloofness. When moving to Harrisonburg it was definitely a different environment but similar to the O’Neil and Tienda study, he didn’t notice an overwhelming amount of hostitially. Just like this study, this is mostly likely due to the influx in the immigrant population in recent years..
Another context is that he was living in a community with other immigrants here to work for the church. They shared similar experiences and were either in the same process of integrating or had already integrated previously and he could learn from them. They were all from many different countries, likely including Chile, so they could learn from each other’s individual cultures, while not feeling like the odd one out since they’re all from separate countries. He is already relating with other immigrants now, as well as friends he had made in the past who are native to America, and the local population was very accepting of Latinos.
The third context of reception, which I noted before, is that he spoke English. Pepe learned English in high school, and had been speaking it regularly for years now in other countries he was aiding in. This bridges the initial language barrier between many immigrants and the locals. He was now largely involved on social services as well, with humanitarian efforts from the organization he’s a member of. A question that often pops up is how immigrants experience political incorporation when integrating. In Pepe’s case, it didn’t seem to change his view any. He attributes this to his having a very high sense of justice already before coming to America, and this is likely to be true, considering that he has based so much of his life around traveling the world to give aid to the poor and the wronged.
Immigrant Harrisonburg
It sounded like integration for him was a bit more challenging than in Denver. Harrisonburg did not have the strong Latino culture or acceptance that Denver had. Pepe said that when he “moved to Harrisonburg, Virginia. The people here is very polite, very polite, but in some way in my opinion very hypocritical. They don’t express really, they, they kind of smile at you, but they are no smiling really” Pepe recalled being surprised that Harrisonburg is known to some by the motto of being “the friendly city” :
There is people, really, there is people who really, really, really embrace others, but there is other people that are still, no. And I understand. This, this is, confederate land. One of the things that when when, that I noticed when, when, when we moved four years ago here, here in this place, I saw more confederate flag than any ever in my 14 years before.
Fortunately, there was already a large network of Latino people in Harrisonburg, and since he was involved with the Latino church, he was very directly plugged into it. Zarragh noted the influx in the Hispanic population in Latinization of the Valley and Pepe even noted a difference in the 4 years he’s been here. He even mentions a neighborhood that he calls the “United Nation, because there is people from everywhere…United States is a melting pot and like I say to other people before, this melting pot-pot is changing from White to Brown”
This gave Pepe something to learn back on. He make friends very easily so this has likely helped a lot as well. Unfortunately, he still has experienced some discrimination. He recalled that he had “suffer some discrimination. Yeah. Yeah. Um, maybe less than other people, um, because [he] am no the typical Latino. [He’s] tall, [he] can speak English.”
Struggles
Other than mentioning it prior, he didn’t give much detail on what sort of discrimination, maybe because he didn’t want to dwell on it too much, or maybe because we didn’t ask for him to elaborate. He did, however, give one specific example, to give us an idea of what he experiences:
“No long time ago I was in a restaurant with my family and people was coming later than us and they was served first. For example. And I notice! They came 20 minutes later than us and they serve to them. Th-Th-That’s to give you some ideas and other, and other things too. But yeah, it’s no easy. Has no easy.”
Creating Change
He visits his home country about once a year. He goes with a dentist from his congregation who wants to help the poor and needy by providing free dental services. So, Pepe’s motivations for going back seem to be more about doing humanitarian work and less about visiting for pleasure.
Pepe made mention of how so many people have been saying to “make America white again”, but that is not possible. He says with all of the increases in Hispanic yearly birth rates and major growth of the Hispanic population, America is becoming brown. He says that this is inevitable and a turning point. The answer to this isn’t intolerance but to embrace and accept that “everyone will be a minority”. This can be interpreted as commentary toward Hispanics being larger members of US society going forward and that he likely feels a part of this society through association.
Conclusion
Pepe Rojas immigrated, worked as a volunteer through an organization while applying for citizenship, got to know a community of people, many of them immigrants, with values similar to his own, and built a network of many friends. He’s since moved here to Harrisonburg four years ago and is a firmly established member of its community. He’s been here in the United States for fourteen years now. His story is one of trial and self-actualization. He’s an enriched person, having lived a lifetime of culturally enriching experiences. Naturally, someone like this is difficult to sum up in so few words. Here stands a person with charity. He has placed himself in so many different countries and cultures, going through this same process of integrating into their communities, with so many social, cultural, and bureaucratic hoops involved, all for the purpose of giving them aid, sending a message, or making a connection.
Westley: Okay, so what is your name?
Jose Pepe Rojas: My name is Jose Pepe Rojas
W: when and where were you born?
J: I born in Chile. Santiago, Chile
W: Uh, can you tell me about your family, like mom, Dad, siblings, etc.?
J: Yeah, Sure. Um, I’m coming from a very (pause) eh dysfunctional family. My mother wasn’t a hard worker. My father was a lazy guy, very smart, very artistic, very gifted with the hands, but very lazy and plus very violent and drunk and uh I don’t have brothers or sister. Um, and um, my father leave home when I was five years old (pause) and, he never come back.
W: Um. tell us a little about Chile, like, what was your life like in Chile growing up?
J: Um, uh Chile is, it’s a very, very unique place is, is, is in the continent, but in some ways like an island. Uh, we have the Pacific Ocean from one side and the Andes cross all the country in the other. That means we are very, in some way very isolated in some way, uh physical. It’s a very it’s a very rich country in natural resources. Um, uh, we produce a lot of fruits and veggies. Uh, the country is very diverse from north to south. North is the driest desert on the world, is in the north. And the center is like, um, like California in some ways, very fruitful. South, is, is a rainy, but it’s still a lot of agriculture. Um, a lot of animals, um, all the milk in the products, the, the, the area produces in south of the country and in the corner this part is very close to the Antarctic and it’s very, very, very diverse. Very long too. If you put the country here in the United States, let’s see, it’s something like from New York to California maybe that long.
W: Wow
Callie: Wow
J: but very, very skinny. Very, very skinny. And um, right now we have- the population is growing, maybe 17, 18 millions around that? Yeah.
W: What were your, like, fondest memories from Chile?
J: Um, um, pause), let’s see. I think soccer. So sorry, but it’s football, okay? Football, football.
W: (laughs)
C: (laughs)
J: Like (if) I say Soccer, I can offend some of my, uh, people. Yeah, football. That was the most fun thing. My friends too. I grew up with a lot of friends. I make a lot of crazy things when I was young.
W: Mm
J: Um, yeah, very good friends and so good, good memories.
W: That’s excellent. (pause) Uh, what kinds of crazy things, do you mean?
W: (laughs)
C: (laughs)
J: There is some that I can give you. An other are off the record obviously,
W: (laughs)
C: (laughs) Yeah?
J: but um, (pause) um, I was in many trouble in my young age. I was involved in drugs. I was involved in drinking. Crazy, uh, years of my life. I didn’t make nothing I just drugged
W: Hmm
J: and that was, wasn’t good, wasn’t good. I think, (pause) um, I make so many things so bad, that, just to give you (chuckle) an idea, when, in my country and that years in the seventies, the go to the army was mandatory. Mandatory. Well, I was in the army for maybe a week and they kicked me out
W: Oh.
C: Oh my goodness
J: because I wasn’t a (pause) good person.
C: Wow
J:In the army, they, they don’t, they don’t even think, “well, we can fix this man.” They kicked me out (snaps fingers) “get out.” Yeah. Many different things, not doing well.
C: That’s crazy
J: that time, bad decisions.
W: Wow, Um, how old were you when you decided to immigrate out of Chile?
J: Um, how old was, um, (long pause) I leave for the first time with my family in 86. I was 31 years old.
W: Okay
J: That was the first time I moved with my family, from Chile to Brazil
W: Mhm
J: That I, I have been living in many, many different countries and um, but that was the first time. 31 years old, I moved with my wife and my three kids to Brazil.
W: So you grew up in Chile, you and your mom and umm, you liked to play soccer a lot, had a lot of crazy years going when you were young
J: Yeah
W: and then, uh, could you tell us about settling down and having a family in Chile?
J: Yeah. Um, well I, (pause) I, I became Christian. Um, and that was really for me, that was my salvation because I was (pause) having too much drugs in my body that I was a little crazy. I was turning crazy. Um, even without drugs I have, I have, (in the past during this time in his life) I been hallucinating and all the time that was my mother was thinking, “I need to take you to the psychiatric because I can’t manage you.” Eh, I can, I don’t live with my father, I don’t have brothers. I live with my mother and my grandma (pause) and I was crazy. And, one friend of mine invited me to the church. At the beginning I thought, no way, no way jose, I’m not going to the church. You are crazy.
W: (laughs)
C: (laughs)
J: What? Jesus and uh what? No, no way. But at the end, I went with my friend, with several other friends, all these guy was doing exactly the same thing: drugs. We went to the church, in my case I became Christian. And that was my (pause) salvation really. In all sense, okay? My spiritual, my life, everything, and I meet this sweet girl at the church.
W: Mhm. At the church
J: Yeah. And (pause) I married with her and everything changed.
W: Wow. All because of the church
J: Because of the church. Yeah. All because of the church.
C: That’s crazy
W: Do you remember what….like say, you said, “oh, I don’t know about this”. Like, do you remember what the turning point was where you were like, “wow, I’m going to become Christian now.”?
J: Yeah. Um, the, the turning point was during this, one of the first service, first or second service that I attend the church, the pastor make an invitation to people to come to the altar. And, the idea was pray for them and that is all. But, because I was very macho, I don’t want to go to the front, I don’t want it to be there. And the pastor says in the moment, I know that someone here in this building don’t desire to come to the front. Let me tell you something. You can pray wherever you are. You can pray. You can pray in the bus, walking, in the bathroom, sit(ting) in the toilet. You can pray. And I was thinking “Okay, when I leave from the service, from the church, from the point of the church to my house takes maybe 50 minutes, one hour, by bus. And I will sit.” I remember very clear by the window and all my friends over here making noise. You know, guys, 17 years old, 19, 20, crazy. I was there and I looked out the window, say a small prayer, very simple. I say “I don’t know you, but the guy in the church says that if I talked to you, you can help me and I need your help. I’m open.”
J: That was all. Nothing more, nothing- (mimics heavenly noises and says “hallelujah!”)
W: (laughs)
C: (laughs)
J: No, nothing like that. Nothing. Very, very, very simple. When I (pause) when I arrived to my place, just get out of the bus, I was completely different. At the point when I arrived home, I opened, I live in an apartment. I opened the door of my apartment and my mom looked at me and she says “Now, What kind of drug is this one?”
C. (Gasp)
J: And I say “Mom. It’s no drugs. Nothing. I have, I’m clean.” “And what’s going on?” I say “Well, I’m a Christian.” “What?!” “I’m a Christian.” Everything changed.
W: Was your mom and grandma, were they Christian or?
J: My grandma. My mom was (pause) in French como si como sa.
W: Mm.
J: I don’t know, but yeah, that was my turning point.
W: Wow. That’s really powerful.
C: So, you said you first moved from Chile to Brazil.
J: Yeah
C: What was your experience there?
J: Um, uh, I was pursuing (to) be a missionary. I was looking to do, um, to do something. I, I, I(pause) I want to help others, but I recognize that I need some training in order to do this. And this was the reason. We moved to Brazil to get training with an organization called youth with a mission. Y1. And I met with them and I spend, we spend with my wife maybe 14 years of our life (pause) working with them.
C: So when did you eventually come to the US?
J: Um, I came several times. Um, I came-the first time was in 1992. At that time I was living in Equatorial Guinea, Africa and I received an invitation to be part of an uh, conference called mercy ministries. And because I was working in Africa and living in Africa, they consider what we were doing there was, um, mercy ministry. They want to know what kind of ministry was this, and I flew to Texas. Tyler, Texas. That was my first time. Um, later came other time, and at the end, um, in 1999, I moved from my family, from Chile to Honduras. And at the end of October, 1998, there was a big hurricane who almost destroy(ed) Central America and Honduras. Honduras was the, the worst country in Central America. And I went to visit what, what, what was the reality of the country, come back to Chile, share with my wife and my kids, and take the decision, “lets move to Honduras and help to the people in Honduras”. And I live in Honduras for two years. 1999 until 2000. At the end of 2000, we built 52 houses for people who lost everything during the hurricane. And when we finished the project there, we asked to the Lord “what is next, where we go”? And we feel that the Lord says go to the United States. And we moved to Denver, Colorado and we spent (pause) lets see, 14 years in Denver and four years ago I moved, we moved to Virginia.
W: What was the process of getting to the US. Like did you have to, like how, how hard was it to become an, uh, I guess, did you have like your, uh, like your green card or umm?
J: Yeah, permanent residence. Is- that is a long story.
W: Okay
J: But I try, I will try to make the short version. Um, I was, um, pastor in a church in, in Colorado, and with the (pause) being under the cover of this church, I get my religious worker visa, but in order to get that green card, I went, I moved to Chile to get the, the visa in Chile in order to get this work permit. It’s a long process, it’s a very expensive process. Very, very complicated. Very bureaucratic. Yeah. Takes years and thousands and thousands of dollars to get a uh, work permit.
W: One -just a simple question. How many years do you think that took you to uh, get the permit?
J: Um, It’s very interesting (pause) because they say for get the permanent residents, um take or the permit. I don’t remember right now. What is the permit or the um, whatever. That one of the things take in the law, If you read the law for a religious worker visa, they say, immigration says these things take six months. Well, in my case, take I think four or five years to get (permit)
W: Wow. That’s a long time
J: Take a long time. Take a long time.
W: What do you feel like you, uh, left behind in uh, Chile and Brazil and such. Did you feel like (when) you moved to the US, did you have to say goodbye to any family or any people or anything?
J: Yeah. Well, my family, my particular family is very small. Um at this moment I have just one cousin. He’s third or fourth grade, I don’t have any relationship. Was wasn’t very difficult for me. In other way too um, I, because I was living in so many places, um, I didn’t have the, the strong connection with the country. I was, I feel like I’m I am a citizen of the world. I am no, you know. Yeah. Some people are very connected with the country and my food, my bread, or the weather or I am not, I’m completely different. No.
W: That’s very freeing.
J: Yeah. Yeah.
W: Um, was there anyone in here in America waiting for you when you got here?
J: To what?
W: What- was anyone here in America that you knew, that was like waiting for you here?
J: Yeah. I have some friends, some friends. Especially in my years working with Y1, youth with a mission. I meet a lot of people. I met a lot of people in Chile. I met a lot of people when I live in, in, in, in Africa and um, I’m very, I am a very social person and I can make friends (snaps fingers) very easily. And when I came here, yeah, I got some of my good friends.
W: Um, when did you start learning English?
J: Um, I started learning English in high school in Chile. Its its its mandatory, its very basic, but for me it was good. I learned, I learned easily.
W: Did you start really using it like when you left Chile or was it more like when you came to the US you started really using it?
J: Oh No. During my years living in Chile and work, working with Y1, I use a lot of English to communicate with the other missionaries and yeah.
W: Um, when you got here to the US like uh, (pause) setting up, what was your first job, like how’d you start making money?
J: Uh, um, my, my first job here in United State was like a volunteer because I couldn’t, I couldn’t work. They, they don’t allow legally. Um, and, and I’ve worked with the same organization that I work at in Honduras. They move the office, uh, the headquarters from Hawaii to Denver, Colorado and I work it with them like a volunteer. That means I have some support. I didn’t get salary, but I have some support from friends. That, that was my first thing; friends who support me.
W: So when you moved, did you, um, (pause) did you feel like there was like a community of like a supportive community around you? Maybe of uh, a lot of Chileans or say people who are also immigrants kind of?
J: Yeah. I-I live in an organization. This wasn’t a housing program
W: Oh.
J: for people of low income. And very interesting, many, many of them were Christian, but many of them too was foreigners like me. Um, there was Ukrainians, Russians, a lot of Russians, um, Africans, um, people, a few people from Europe I remember very well. And these organizations provided housing but in very, very low cost and that was very, very affordable for us. And the other thing, too is, these organization was- have a very good connection with Y1. And there was a Y1 based in Arbada. What is northeast or northwest Denver, and they have a very good relationship. And when they know I was coming, they helped me.
W: That’s great.
J: Yeah.
C: It’s nice that you had like, a lot of communities everywhere.
J: Yeah, Yeah. A lot of people was there trying to help.
W: Uh, what did you do for recreation in uh, when you moved, I guess?
J: Umm, recreation, let’s see.
W: Like for fun, you know?
J: Yeah, yeah
W: Yeah
J: Yeah. Um, you know, I spent a lot of time at the church, with people. Um, again, I’m very social and, um, our home was always open with- for people. Um, we don’t have any problem if somebody came *knock knock knock*s (knocks on desk with hand) and knocked the door without invitation. You are very welcome. And if we are, if that was during lunchtime, “Oh, come on! Let’s move! Move the plates and you are welcome.” You know? Um, I love that thing. I love, I love movies. I love um, uh I’m very sport guy. I love (to) play. I’m very competitive. Um, if you invite me to play tennis, even when I’m no good, I will try to beat you.
W: (laughs)
C: (laughs)
W: I like that.
J: Yeah.
C: Yeah um, So you said you’ve uh, held like a lot of jobs, um, based on Y1? Is that what you’re saying?
J: Yeah
C: Um, so is that what brought you to Virginia?
J: Yeah. Well, um, let me go a little bit, a little back.
C: Yeah.
J: Um, I get my green card
C: Ok
J: in Denver, Colorado and I started my application for my citizenship. Okay? Um, some of my, two of my kids was living very close to here, one was living- is living in, in, in Baltimore, in an area of Baltimore, and at that time my oldest daughter was living in dc. And even when we have a nice church, a lot of friends, a lot of friends, um, something was missing, and was my family. Um, my youngest daughter at that time was living in India, uh, with her husband and I was- we were again, a nice place, very good friends, but the family was very important for me and for my wife too. Um, we want(ed) to be close with our grandkids. My grandfather was a very, very special man for me, um, because I didn’t have a father. He became in some way my father and always have in my heart the desire to replicate in some way with my grandkids, what I have received with my grandpa. And, and we moved here. We found that this church was looking for another Latino pastor to take care of the Latino church, the Latino congregation and, and we move and we connected very well and I’m here
C: that’s great. (clears throat) So did you find it was easy to acclimate to Harrisonburg or the US in general, like did you have any troubles with it or…
J: What kind of trouble?
C: Um, anything like uh, getting used to the weather as you said earlier or like discrimination-
W: Or culture shock.
J: Ohh
C: Culture?
J: Oh, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. I think if, if, um, if I look back to Colorado, Denver, Colorado and um, Harrisonburg, Virginia is, is, is, is a big difference.
C: Umhm
J: Big difference. Um, very broadly the uh, Colorado have a big Latino influence, a big, big Latino influence and the people are, if, if we can say more liberal uh, sometimes when, when we use the term liberal is, is the connotation is little. I don’t know little different.
C: Yeah
J: Maybe I can say is more humanitarian,
C: Mmhm
J: maybe sounds much, much better. Um, uh, for example, just to give an example, Cinco de Mayo, uh one of the biggest Cinco de Mayo celebration in United States is in Denver, Colorado.
C: Oh!
W: Wow
C: I didn’t know that
J: Yeah
W: Me neither
J: is huge.
C: (laughs)
J: Huge. Why? Because the white American has embrace, the Latino community in-in a very good manner, very good way.
C: Yeah
J: I moved to uh, Harrisonburg, Virginia. Uh, the people here is very polite, very polite, but in some way in my opinion very hypocritical. They don’t express really, they, they kind of smile at you, but they are no smiling really.
C: Yeah
J: Um, I have uh suffer some discrimination. Yeah. Yeah. Um, maybe less than other people, um, because I am no the typical Latino. I am, I’m tall, I can speak English
C: Mmhm
J: maybe not very well
C: (laughs)
W: (laughs) What?
J: but I can speak.
C: You speak fine.
W: Yeah, it’s perfectly fine.
J: with a little strange accent, but I can do this. But I still I suffer some, some discrimination. Just to give you some ideas. No, no, no, some, no long time ago I was in a restaurant with my family and people was coming later than us and they was served first. For example. And I notice! They came 20 minutes later than us
C: Mmhm
J: and they serve to them. Th-Th-That’s to give you some ideas and other, and other things too. But yeah, it’s no easy. Has no easy. It’s very interesting that my senior pastor, my pastor says one of the first time, you know what the motto of Harrisonburg, the friendly, the friendly city?
C & W: Mmhm
J: Uhhh, I don’t know.
C: (laughs)
J: I don’t know.
C: Yeah
J: I have some. There is people, really, there is people who really, really, really embrace others, but there is other people that are still, no. And I understand. This, this is, uh, confederate land. One of the things that when when, that I noticed when, when, when we moved four years ago here, here in this place, I saw more confederate flag than any ever in my 14 years before.
C: Has living here made you more interested in politics? Or have you always…
J: No, no,
C:MUmhm
J: It’s nothing new for me.
C: Ok.
J: Um, no. Um, the, the reason is (clears throat) for me, I, I have a high sense of justice.
C: Mmhm
J: Um, could be from when I was a child. Uh, the situation that I suffer with my father. I don’t know. Th-There, I was very poor too. I live in a very, very poor neighborhood. I grew up in a poor neighborhood and my family was the poorest of the poor. And, I don’t know too if maybe it’s a mix of things. My mother in law, um, she was a poor lady, but years before she was a very well educated, living in one of the most richest families in Santiago. She lost everything. And, and she have a heart for the community and I learned, I learned something from her. Is, is nothing new.
C: Mmhm
J: I love justice. I and, yeah.
C: So did you feel, um, moving to Harrisburg you said it was very different. Do you still feel that your received okay? Did, did you find um, Harrisonburg had a nice community? Um like of immigrants and stuff like that?
J: Yeah, I think, um, things are changing.
C: Mmhm
J: We have, uh, Sal Romero in, in the city council.
C: Yeah.
K: We have an African American lady too.
C: Mmhm
J: Um, back of, back of our church here. We have a, a, a neighborhood that I call United Nation.
W: (laughs) I like that.
J: Um, because there is people from everywhere.
C: Yeah
J: Um, these, uh, let me put this in this way. United States is a melting pot and like I say to other people before, this melting pot-pot is changing from White to Brown. And this is something that is irreversible, is, is, is not possible when somebody says, uh, “Make white America again”. Sorry, no.
C: (laughs) Yeah.
J: It’s, it’s not going to happen. Can be happen if you are take the guns, the weapons and create on a, I don’t what, um, but it’s not going to happen. Really because this melting pot is changing, is changing to be more brown than white. Um, if I remember well four or five years ago, I go in this country for first time in the history, more Latino babies born in one year than white babies. That, that is, pay attention of this. This is something that is, it’s not turning point, is. And, we need to live with that.
C: Yeah.
J: We need to accept this. This is the reality.
C: Yeah
J: Even they close the door. If they shut the door completely. Still with the people living here, the number says, and I’m not saying this, I’m very bad mathematic, for math, I’m terrible. But the people who knows says maybe 2030, maybe 2035, there is no going to be majority in the country. Everybody’s going to be minority.
C: I’ve heard of predictions even as early by 2020.
J: Look at that.
C: Mmhm
W: Mmhm
J: Very soon.
C: Yeah, very soon
J: Very soon. That means-
W: Exponential growth, you know?
J: Yeah. The thing is, with that reality, are you continue it fighting against other who are- no man! This is the time to start to embrace because we are going to be here in the same boat. All of us.
C: Umhm. Yeah. Would you say that your, your overall experience in the United States has been a positive one then?
J: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
C: That’s good to hear.
J: Very positive.
C: Um, what has been the most difficult part about living in Harrisburg- like Harrisonburg specifically? Is it because you didn’t have, don’t have like that big of a culture as you did in Denver or is it something else?
J: You know what I, again, I don’t have.I think the most difficult thing for me is when I interact with people who, who have a different opinion about me just because the color of my skin or my face or my, uh, my broken and poor English. That is the only thing. That is my biggest conflict. My… But it’s, it’s no me too, it’s them. Because if they know me, maybe very probably they can find in me a good guy and a very good friend. I’m, no, uh, yeah.
C: That’s nice to hear. Um, so what has it been like working, um, at this like church? Um, do you find that because you’re in a real- like involved in the religious community, people have been more accepting? Um, or what has just been your over-overall experience?
J: Yeah, I think ,yeah. Um, it’s very interesting here in this country. Many people call themselves Christian,
C: Mmhm
J: but really, uh, many of them are no really good Christian. They are, I don’t know, fans?
C & W: (Laugh)
W: They go to church on Sunday, fair weather fans, yeah.
J: Yeah, but Christian, no. But, still they have some respect when somebody says I am a pastor and um, yeah, you know, working in this church, yeah.
C: It’s good to hear that. Um, would you say that being where you are, like involved with this covenant has given you a different perspective on Harrisonburg and then maybe other people um involved in like different situations or no?
J: Well, uh, the good thing for me is to be in this church is, is this is a church who is embracing every single one. We’re no making any difference. Um, the Latino Church of this con- this church has been here for 31, 32 years. This was the first Latino church in all Harrisonburg. This one.
C: Oh my goodness.
J: That was the first one.
W: Wow
J: That speak very strong. That here, the people of this church have a commitment with this group of people even when they don’t speak language, their language. Some, some of them are undocumented. I don’t mention illegal because I don’t like that word,
C & W: Mmhm
J: but undocumented.
C: Mmhm
J: They are here and they are welcome here in this church. Um, we, some of our series, we, we bridge by series for four weeks, six week, whenever. I remember we put a banner outside with the new series. We put the title of this series in English and in Spanish and Arabic for our community over here. Um, when we open, when we have programs here, like, uh, harvest, party, uh, Easter, we have all kinds of people here. Muslim, Christian, non Christian, non Muslim. Everybody’s welcome. I love that because for me this is the, this is the church is the best platform to speak to others about how we can work, how we can live, how is the way to love other people. This is the best, the best way.
C: It’s a really good message, your- you’re spreading.
J: Yeah
W: I agree, yeah
C: That you should be accepting everyone. Um, so have you been, visited Chile ever since you’ve moved to the United States?
J: Yeah, yeah.
C: Do you go back often?
J: (clears throat) I go to Chile almost every year,
C: That’s nice
J: (clears throat) every year, um, um, in the last three years, four years, March is the time when we go to Chile, um, there is a dentist here in the city, very well known is, uh, Smile Makers.
C: Mmhm
J: The doctor is Greg Johnson and he’s part of our congregation. And when I arrived here, he says to me, I want to go back to Chile. I have been in Chile many times and I want to go back to Chile, but I want to go to another place I’m going to go to Puerto Montt, is a city maybe 1200 kilometer from Santiago, and I want to take a dental team and go and help poor people in, in that area. And we have been doing this for the last four years. Um, if I put the number I can say thousands of people has been blessed by Greg and other dentists, other, uh, hygienist helping, cleaning fillings. Everything. And it’s free.
C: (whispers) That’s awesome.
J: And in the last two years, um, we add a construction team because the church is building a new facility for children. This is going to be an hogar, a house for children, little one, and we built this past march, we built one of the unit is going to be a big facility with four or five buildings. We built one in March and we are thinking to go back now in next year, February with another team. Yeah. I go back to Chile. Uh, but always with the, I’m not going to, I’m not going to vacation. We go to serve, to help people.
C: Do you specifically go in March and February for a reason? Is it like the best time…?
J: Um, it, that was the best time for, for Greg,
W: Oh
C: Got it.
J: um, because he have a perfect window of time. Ten days, 12 days. That was the reason.
C: Got it
J: And for the construction team, uh, I’m thinking in February or Mar- March is a good time because there’s no raining.
C: Ohh
W: Hmm
J: Puerto Montt is, if you take away, uh, from the equator line to the south, it’s the same distance from the equator to north. That means it’s going to be Oregon or Washington state.
C: Mmhm
J: That means a lot of rain and the window of time work best for construction is during summer.
C: Got it, I see. So, do you, um, think that any of your views or values, um, about living in the US has changed since you’ve been living here or or did you like have a different view before you moved here?
J: Um, no, I think it’s- (pause) well, let’s see. I moved from, from, uh, Honduras. I always lived in countries of the third world. Coming to the United States, yeah, you find another dynamic. You find another way. Um, uh, for example, Latinos, we are masters of improvisation. Uh, Americans: Planification. Is making plans. We don’t make no plans, but we are very good improvising, um, in coming to this country and put together both. I enriched my life because I’m good in this, but this other thing is good too.
C: Yeah, It’s cool to see how those mesh
W: Interesting.
C: So, so far, what would you view as the happiest or best time in your life?
J: Being with my kids.
C: Anytime, that that is?
J: Uh, yeah, for me is the best, I think. I have three kids. Um, it’s not easy to meet together. Like I said before, the youngest years ago was living in India. Uh, she moved from India, from Kolkata, India to Seattle. Um, later, the oldest who was living in D.C, she moved to Luxembourg.
C: Oh my.
J: and is quite complicated
C: (laughs)
J: to meet together, but when I meet together is, is heaven for me. I love it. I love to be with my kids. I love to be with my grandkids.
C: Mmhm
J: I have um, uh, we have a very good communication with our kids. We talk even when they live very far. We talk almost every day with them. Yeah.
C: That’s great.
J: How many times you talked with your parents?
C: Definitely not as much as that (laughs)
J: No?
C: No.
W: And you?
W: Uh, somewhere in like every three or four days, you know.
J: Yeah
C: Mmhm
W: (I) Just try to do that every day
J: Yeah
W: or something
J: Yeah. Good.
C: It’s probably cause we take for granted how close we are to our family.
W: Yeah, you’re right.
J: Yeah. Okay!
C: (Laughs)
J: Next question.
C: Um, the last question I have is, um, what historical events have had an impact on your life?
J: Say again.
C: What historical events have had an impact on your life? So I think specifics, so you mentioned the hurricane, um in Honduras, that had a big impact. Has anything else had a really big impact on your life?
J: I can think a couple of things. Um, first of all, I think, uh, Jesus Christ for me was really
C: Mmhm
J: impact my, my life. He changed my life completely. He saved my life. Um, 19, 1994, I was in, in Goma in Zaire, Zaire, at that time, during the Rwandan War and visiting some of the feeding camp. That was the most shocking things for me. But at the same time was kind of shaking my life when I saw that reality. Um, see human beings in that condition was, gave me something that I never experienced before. Um, most of these was children. That was the most. Yeah, um, the magnitude of this tragedy was overwhelmed. Uh, at that time in Goma, there was easily a million and a half, maybe more, refugees living in, in, in a poor area. The condition was so extreme in, in everything. Food, water, bathroom, uh, medicine. Um, that was incredible for me. Um, for example, I didn’t know that there was an organization on the world. Not many people know this organization, but this one NGO who work there specific work is to remove bodies from, from the camp
W: Wow.
J: because they need to move (snaps quickly) quick these body because, uh, prevent sickness and other thing. And that, that was, if I think about something that impact my, that that place was, yeah.
C: Wow, that’s crazy. Well, those are all the questions we have for you.
J: Yeah?
C: Yeah. But it was very nice talking to you.
W: Very powerful, yeah
J: Yeah
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Interview of Paola Iturbide
Interview with Paola Iturbide
The following interview is between myself and Paola Iturbide, who came to Harrisonburg, Virginia from Guadalajara, Mexico. During our interview we discussed her reasoning for coming to the United States, how her experiences have been while here, and what her plans are when she returns to Mexico. I chose to interview Paola, because she is a younger perspective on immigration in the modern world.
INTERVIEW –
Colby Mocarski: [00:00:00] Hi my name is Colby Mocarski. I am a senior at James Madison University and today I will be interviewing Paola Iturbide. And so my first question is can you tell me your age and something about you?
Paola Iturbide: [00:00:16] I’m 25 years old. I was born in San Diego, California. But I moved to Mexico where my parents lived since I was a baby. My parents used to live in Mexico City. They met there. Then they moved to Tijuana. And they decided to just have me in the United States so I can have more opportunities like in the future. And so I do. I was just born there. But live in Mexico all my life and now I live in the States.
Colby Mocarski: [00:00:50] OK so can you tell me some about your childhood or your education?
Paola Iturbide: [00:00:56] My childhood I grew up in Guadalajara, Mexico. I was in a Catholic school all girls school and my friends were middle high class so they had money to give me the location that I needed and I learned English in school.
Colby Mocarski: [00:01:16] So you said that you went to a Catholic school so that was that your religion growing up?
Paola Iturbide: [00:01:22] Yeah. Because a lot of people in Mexico are Catholic. That’s like the main religion. So I grew up Catholic and I’m Catholic and I was raised in a Catholic school.
Colby Mocarski: [00:01:36] So what made you want to come to the United States?
Paola Iturbide: [00:01:41] The first thing is like there’s no jobs in Mexico because I mean I study a career. But I saw a lot of options but they don’t pay you well. You have to have a connection or know someone in the government to have a well-paid job. And also I did and say I did and I study a lot. Also I had to study more to be someone I think I was a little lazy in school. So that also was the problem. If you put a lot of effort in school you can be successful in Mexico. What a lot of people are lazy and that’s why they come to the United States because they think it’s gonna be easier. But I think you have to work at the same level that you will do it in Mexico or in the States.
Colby Mocarski: [00:02:44] What made you choose Harrisonburg when you came to the United States?
Paola Iturbide: [00:02:47] Because my sister and is in Bridgewater and I came with her and it was easier for me because she knew people because coming to United States not knowing anyone it’s difficult it’s difficult living here it’s difficult.
Colby Mocarski: [00:03:02] What what was your first initial reaction of Harrisonburg? Did you like it right away? Did you feel like you fit into the community right away?
Paola Iturbide: [00:03:20] I think it’s warm because I came from a big city so I prefer big cities. I fall in love withD.C. This is like not for me because it’s like living in a ranch but it’s really pretty. Just like for coming on a vacation I mean and people here are nice. I think there’s a little bit of racism racism. I think there is but I mean it’s it’s ok living here. I’m just not like a country girl.
Colby Mocarski: [00:03:53] So how was it finding a job in Harrisonburg?
Paola Iturbide: [00:03:58] It was so easy. That’s the thing of the United States. It’s really easy finding any job well me because I have papers but I don’t know the people that are immigrants. I work for a week in a restaurant in a Mexican restaurant. The name is El Charo they get it. They they just have immigrants and they treat them like slaves. They made them work all day and they paid them nothing. Just the tips from people and I think people that come here as an immigrant it’s not worth it because they are treated like slaves. You have to have papers to be OK here or on have a decent job. If you don’t have papers is horrible. You are surviving, just surviving and maybe you are living a little better. We maybe in Mexico didn’t have a TV and you have a TV here with you. You have to pay it every month and you work here in the States. People that don’t have papers they work like slaves. They live better but they are their slaves.
Colby Mocarski: [00:05:04] So I know you came here also trying to get a certification to be a translator. Is that something that was offered in Mexico too?
Paola Iturbide: [00:05:16] No I just like look in here and I saw that they have the certification. I just did it.
Colby Mocarski: [00:05:25] So what is like your long term goals? Like what jobs do you want? Do You see you staying here, or going back to Mexico full time?
Paola Iturbide: [00:05:35] I mean if I pass the exam to be a translator. My plan my initial plan was to move here and find a better job, because having a job in Five Guys that mean you earn a lot but if you save it and you go back to Mexico. But here things are so expensive that if you want to leave here you have to have a better job than Five Guys cook. You know what my goal to have my certificate and to work in a hospital and get paid minimum 30 dollars per hour so you can be fine you know because if you have like a job you are not going to leave fine. You’re going to just survive. So while not my plan was coming here study that if I pass it I was going to leave close to D.C. because I fell in love with D.C. But now my ex-boyfriend is talking to me again. We’re going to meet each other and if any if what he proposed I’m going back to Mexico because he has a lot of money so I’m gonna have to worry you know. But if he doesn’t propose in New York I won’t. I’m going to come back and work as a translator in the hospital because in here I will have a decent life. And in Mexico I will be a slave just to survive. Like working in an office eight hours to get paid. I don’t know. Two hundred dollars per month. So it’s nothing. Per day I will get paid like 30 bucks.
Colby Mocarski: [00:07:17] So you said you worked at Five Guys did you ever feel like not being an American has affected you in your workplace?
Paola Iturbide: [00:07:27] No I don’t think so because there’s Mexicans there in five days. I mean Spanish speaking people. There are a lot of Spanish speaking people here.
Colby Mocarski: [00:07:39] So do you think that there are Americans that work in five guys that treat you differently because you are aren’t American?
Paola Iturbide: [00:07:48] No.
Colby Mocarski: [00:07:51] So how is Harrisonburg changed since you moved here. Have you seen any big differences or anything?
[00:08:01] Yeah I mean just because I had a car in Mexico and I have lived with my parents I was fine but what I saw the poor people that live in Mexico is a huge difference here because I’m going to put an example. The bosses here have air conditioner and in Mexico people have to wait in lines to get on the bus and they go squish. They have to walk thousands of miles to get to their jobs. And here is more access to all or it’s more accessible to have a car than in Mexico is impossible because of they because of what they get paid in there. In any job because jobs there if you don’t have a connection or if you know someone if you come from a wealthy family you screwed your whole life! Or you are very smart to become a successful doctor or you know in here you’re not that smart you can work two jobs and you are going to survive and live decently we have to be really smart to stay or to, to do it in Mexico.
Colby Mocarski: [00:09:20] So do you feel like there is a community within a community of immigrants in Harrisonburg because for example JMU has over 200 different countries represented within our campus. So do you think there’s a community within a community of immigrant students or people?
Paola Iturbide: [00:09:45] Yeah. There’s a lot of immigrants here because they told me Harrisonburg is the city that you don’t get deported at deported. I don’t know why. So they call their safe place so that’s why immigrants come here because if you don’t have papers you don’t get deported. That’s why there is a huge community of immigrants.
Colby Mocarski: [00:10:07] So do you feel like that you see a lot of other people reaching out like within that smaller community? Like do you feel like there’s a stronger bond between those people?
Paola Iturbide: [00:10:22] People that I have met makes you can with Mexicans, Chinese we Chinese like they don’t get makes a lot I think because of their racisim, and because of the language maybe they find it difficult.
Colby Mocarski: [00:10:39] So what made you end up working for five guys? Like what made you decide to work there?
Paola Iturbide: [00:10:44] Because it was close to my house and I don’t have a car it is a bad job. But I mean I will love to work in other place but it’s like you so hard to move here because their transportation is horrible.
Colby Mocarski: [00:11:02] So do you see yourself like staying with Five Guys? Are you going and try and look for a new job? Or try to start your career as a translator?
Paola Iturbide: [00:11:15] Yes. I just need the translated stuff I’m just doing my exam if I pass it I think I’m not leaving here because he’s boring. But I’m going to maybe move to Charlottesville, if my ex don’t propose.
Colby Mocarski: [00:11:31] So what Changes would you like to see in Harrisoburg in the nation in general as far as looking at immigrants?
Paola Iturbide: [00:11:45] Transportation people that don’t have cars so difficult. You don’t have transportation you don’t have transportation and Saturday and Sunday. It’s horrible.
Colby Mocarski: [00:11:56] But what about like how our nation views immigrants?
Paola Iturbide: [00:12:02] I think it’s really hard for people that immigrants. So I think they don’t have a decent job. If you are an immigrant you’re screwed. You’re going to leave this in but you’re not gonna live, you’re gonna be a slave. So people here treat immigrants that they don’t have papers as slaves they are slaves.
Colby Mocarski: [00:12:33] As a whole like especially under President Trump he’s been like extremely strict with immigration policies. So like how do you feel about our nation. Like right now he’s shown to appeal the 14th Amendment that says that if you are born in the United States you are a citizen even if your parents are not. So you shine to get that reversed. So like how do you feel about the way that our country is moving towards like a no immigrant population?
Paola Iturbide: [00:13:07] I think is fine if you like if their parents are not from here. I think it’s OK. What they are doing. I don’t know why people come here. They should fight in their own countries to be better and other countries should like fight so that their people have better jobs and not leave their countries. So I think America is doing the right thing not having immigrants here.
Colby Mocarski: [00:13:48] So you said that your family still lives in Mexico so what do your parents do to be successful and have a life in Mexico if finding jobs are very difficult?
Paola Iturbide: [00:14:01] Like I said I was not a very studious person. I didn’t study a lot. I’m kind of I like to study both my parents my parents my parents. My dad he’s he’s really smart so he become a lawyer so like I said if you are smart and you study you can be successful anywhere. But most of the time people are lazy. That’s why they are not successful.
Colby Mocarski: [00:14:30] So what jobs do your parents have in Mexico?
Paola Iturbide: [00:14:33] My father is a lawyer and he runs a call center he’s them. Like their manager of all Mexico. Like all the, the country because they have different call centers in different parts of the of their country.
Colby Mocarski: [00:15:01] And what does your mom do?
Paola Iturbide: [00:15:02] My mom right now she doesn’t work.
Colby Mocarski: [00:15:05] So what do you think about the overall view on immigration? Like what do you think about the American perspective of immigration.
Paola Iturbide: [00:15:34] What Americans think of immigration. I think that right now they’re really racist about immigration and I think they should stop immigration and not let people in. If they are were not born in the United States and or if they are born here and their parents are not from here they should not give them the papers because governments on other countries should fight for better education and everything like that.
Colby Mocarski: [00:16:11] So yeah it’s just America was built on immigration because everybody that’s ever really been here immigrated from overseas from Mexico somewhere. So it’s just like how is how are the times so different now where immigration is viewed as a negative thing and we’re trying to cut it off completely versus we were built on immigration. So like why do you think it’s like completely changed?
Paola Iturbide: [00:16:44] Because back in the days there was they were everything was building it was building like everything was not done yet. So all like Mexico was built because European people move to that country. So now that is overpopulated like they should stop immigration because everything’s done right now like people like countries have their own people so they should stop immigration.
Colby Mocarski: [00:17:17] So what do you think you will take for Mexico to, I guess become more like the United States where it has more job opportunities and higher wages and things like that?
Paola Iturbide: [00:17:30] When they when the government stops robbing has a robbing, because people are really really corrupt. That’s the problem that in other countries government is so corrupt and they steal thousands and thousands of dollars they don’t have the values like Americans have. They have honesty values here and Mexicans, they don’t have that because the government steals. The steals their taxes monies taxes money. So that’s why it’s like a circle, like it repeats repeats repeats the same stuff because if they don’t stop from the government, stealing the government give give them more opportunities. People will stop stealing to have a better life. So the government should start not stealing and have their values like America has more Americans have more of honesty. They are more honest. There is not a lot of crimes like in Mexico because of that because it starts from the government that the government steal. They don’t rob. They don’t commit crimes. So is everything. Start start start from the top like from the government.
Colby Mocarski: [00:19:10] So, with not a lot of job opportunities before you moved to the United States even if it was just for a short period of time. What job did you have in Mexico?
Paola Iturbide: [00:19:22] I was just like Secretary.
Colby Mocarski: [00:19:26] What. What did that involve?
Paola Iturbide: [00:19:30] What do you mean?
Colby Mocarski: [00:19:31] Like what were your tasks to do every day?
Paola Iturbide: [00:19:35] Just type things on the computer. Answer the phone. It was awful.
Colby Mocarski: [00:19:42] So how does that compare to like the salary you made in that job. How does that compare to the salary that you’re making in your current job?
Paola Iturbide: [00:19:51] Yeah it’s way like this is a bad job also. Also that’s the difference. Like I had a bad job over there and they pay me like thirty dollars per day. So that’s, no not thirty dollars like twenty dollars per day. And that was an eight hour shift in here a bad job. You get paid per day seventy dollars so that’s a huge amount of difference. That’s the difference. Working in Mexico than working here and in Mexico you work one day and you you can like if you work in that bad job for the whole month you can just buy groceries and that’s it. You don’t like you. You don’t have money to pay rent and to do other stuff in here. If you work a bad job you can’t pay rent. You can have food and you can live decent. That’s the difference between Mexico and the United States that you can live more decently having bad jobs.
Colby Mocarski: [00:20:55] In the span of comparing these two jobs. There is a difference on how far a dollar goes so even though you getting paid less in your other job your money probably went for the men in the United States because things are more expensive here right?
Paola Iturbide: [00:21:13] Yeah. But you can like, but it depends where you go if you to the dollar family store. It’s really cheap. Well it depends on what you do.
Colby Mocarski: [00:21:25] Yeah because the big thing in America right now is buying organic and buying one freshly grown products and going to farmer’s markets which can all be really expensive. So do you see a culture of like Americans spending more. Just because we have more?
Paola Iturbide: [00:21:43] Yeah. I mean here I can see like this consumerism, comsume. How do you say the word? Like you consume a lot like you just want to consume a lot of stuff. It’s a lot of competition. And because these are first world, first world country like they have everything and more so if you were to a store you just want to buy like everything because you can’t like you see everything it’s like you can buy with your credit card. You’re gonna pay it in, I don’t know six months. So it’s consumerism, you you people are buying and buying and stuff that they don’t need.
Colby Mocarski: [00:22:37] Right. So how are things like talking about stores and groceries and that thing like how are they different in the United States than in Mexico? Like do you see a huge difference, are things helps here in one place or another?
Paola Iturbide: [00:22:54] No it’s just like here. I see also the fruit and everything is really I don’t know the word, it is they made their fruit not natural because they don’t know the orange. It doesn’t have seeds. So I think food here is really processed, and in Mexico. No because of their consumerism. So a lot of competition. So people here the food is not healthy like natural like in Mexico and it’s expensive here also.
Colby Mocarski: [00:23:42] So did when you were coming to the United States did you also see it was harder or easier to find somewhere to live to find friends too?
Paola Iturbide: [00:23:54] Oh yeah. It’s really hard here to find like friends and it’s on where to leave also because they ask you for so many stuff like cosigner any of you don’t know anyone is really difficult. And I think people here live more by, they do everything they own and they find people on apps because they are so involved in just their job and just in themselves that they are not like involved in different stuff like in Mexico because here is expense here I’d like to go to our country club and people don’t do that here because it’s expensive just for rich people. The difference in Mexico is like to go to a country club it’s cheap so it’s more like people hang out more. You don’t have to meet someone like community. Yeah because this is cheaper. Like being middle class can go to our country club in here, middle class they cannot do that, people get more and more together. They have more time to do things with their friends. And here everything needs money and work work work work.
Colby Mocarski: [00:25:26] So what would you like when the public is listening to this interview like what is one main thing you want them to take away from your story?
Paola Iturbide: [00:25:38] To think about twice if you don’t have papers to come here you are going to have a better life. You are going to live decent but if you don’t have papers you are going to live like slaves. You are going to work. I work in a restaurant that they hire immigrants and they work from 8:00 in the morning to 10:00 at night and you are going to have a car you’re going to have more things that you’re going to have in Mexico where you are going to work a lot because here things are expensive here, than down in Mexico makes it you can leave poor but you are going to be free. So think twice. Call me here if you don’t have papers. You are not going to be happy. You marry an American or something like that.
Colby Mocarski: [00:26:29] So are also be students listening to the interview. So what do you think they can learn from your story? Like about your immigration experiences your work experiences your living experiences like what’s one main thing you want people and students to learn from your experiences? People are learning about immigration. So as an immigrant like what do you want them to learn from your experience?
Paola Iturbide: [00:27:04] Like I was. I’m not like kind of an immigrant because I have papers but my my friend that I meet here she was she was an immigrant and she didn’t have papers and she lived like hiding because she had to drive with no license. And she always had to be like hiding from the police. She had to work in a Mexican restaurant that they don’t ask for a social security number and anything. And she worked like a slave. So she couldn’t like anything because she didn’t know they, she she couldn’t go out of the country because her their papers were in process to be American citizen. So if you don’t have papers like is no worth it come in here is worth it. Like coming here for a while and then come back just like save money and then come back because here things are really expensive. So if you work like that as an immigrant you are going to earn money but you are going to spend, spend that all and leave just live by the day. The thing to believe you are an immigrant and don’t have papers work a lot and then go back to Mexico or that place that you are and do something there with that money that you earn here because living here is like you’re going to be living good but you are never going to be free.
Colby Mocarski: [00:28:28] Well thank you for this interview. It’s great talking to you and learning about your personal experiences!
Paola Iturbide: [00:28:34] Thank you! Bye!
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