Interview with Jason Huang

Interview with Jason Huang

by Crystal Jing Luo

Introduction:

Jason Huang is a small-business owner and long-time resident of Charlottesville, VA, best known for managing the restaurant “Peter Chang China Grill.” Jason left his home in Henan Province, People’s Republic of China for the United States in the early 2000s and worked a variety of jobs upon arriving, including driving tour buses and stocking shelves at Walmart, before settling on the restaurant business.

 

The China that Jason left behind was undergoing rapid economic and social change, resulting in a widening gap between rich and poor, urban and rural. While life in the US was by no means without its difficulties, there was more flexibility for Jason — a working-class man without a college degree who came from a poor province. Coming to the US was also easier for Chinese immigrants in the second half of the 20th century than it had ever been in the past, due to a combination of immigration reform in America and the slow loosening of travel restrictions in the PRC.

 

For all his shifting between different kinds of work, several themes remain constant in Jason’s immigrant story. He has consistently relied on pre-existing networks of friends, family, and fellow entrepreneurs to gain valuable knowledge and resources in order to succeed. He also credits the community in Charlottesville with helping him make a home and a business in the US, even before he opened “Peter Chang,” citing a welcoming atmosphere and a discerning customer base.

 

Jason was also ready to point out the challenges that come with opening a restaurant — particularly a Chinese restaurant — in central Virginia. From finding the proper ingredients to striking the appropriate balance between authenticity and appeasement, not to mention the regular day-to-day trials of operating a business, “the responsibilities don’t stop.”

 

As for life as a Chinese immigrant in Charlottesville, Jason described a community of families and the individuals who by and large keep to themselves: “private and frugal.” However, there are shared spaces of religion that serve to bring people together outside of work and family life. He also hinted at growing ties between locals and the international student population, who form another transnational tie between Chinese people in the US and in the mainland.

0:00 Introduction

 

H: Is it ok if I use my English name here? Jason.

 

L: Of course, no problem at all.

 

H: Jason Huang. And the last name is the same: Huang. We’re in Charlottesville. I came here in… let’s see, ’02, ’03, around Christmas.

 

L: You moved here in Christmas 2013?

 

H: 2003.

 

L: 2003. Ok, so it’s been a while?

 

H: Yes. I’ve more or less been here for fifteen or sixteen years.

 

0:35 Life in China

 

L: Good. So you came from the mainland? Where did you grow up?

 

H: Yes. I grew up in Henan Province.

 

L: I’ve never been to Henan.

 

H: Oh really?

 

L: How long did you stay there? Did you grow up there?

 

H: Yes. I was already more or less forty when I left China.

 

L: Oh, ok. So did you start working in the restaurant industry — the food industry — when you were already in China, or no?

 

H: No. Some of my family members had worked in restaurants, opened some restaurants locally in China… but when I was in China I did other things: worked in the tourism industry, worked as a teacher… Things like that.

 

1:23 Moving to US

 

L: So, in China… So, when did you decide you wanted to work in the restaurant industry? Was it after you came to the United States?

 

H: Yes. Even after I came to the US, I had no immediate plans to work in restaurants, but I worked in my cousin’s restaurant for a while. It must’ve been, oh… half a year in DC, in Alexandria. After half a year, business wasn’t so good, so we went looking for another job and left his restaurant. It just so happened when we started looking for work that we had a friend who worked at the Walmart in Charlottesville. <You know Walmart?>

 

L: Yeah.

 

H: So we got a job there and then the three of us — my wife and I and our daughter — moved to Charlottesville. My wife and I both worked at the Walmart. I worked — not even a whole year, more like seven to eight months, because to be honest with you, it was pretty low-level work. The wages were too low, if I’m being honest. They couldn’t cover all our expenses. So after I quit that job, I went to Los Angeles and learned how to drive the big buses. After I got back from that, I found a job at a Chinese-run tourism company in Washington DC. I worked there for five, six years as a bus driver.

 

2:55 Transitioning to the restaurant industry

 

H: I formally decided to open a restaurant in 2011. Yes, 2011. It just so happened I had a friend, Zhang Pengliang — Peter Chang — left another restaurant — you might know it, “Taste of China?”

 

L: Oh!

 

H: After he left there he didn’t have anywhere to go, but we knew him. So after he and his investor split, he was living in our home for a time. And he said, “You must open a restaurant in Charlottesville!”

 

L: Ah, because the location’s so good?

 

H: Yes. Because this is a good place to do business. Charlottesville is a small town, but don’t let the small population fool you. It’s a place where the community is very open, very vibrant. It’s in the south, sure, but when I look at it… I think it’s classically American. And if you’re doing business here, there’s not as much competition. Look at big cities where there’s lots of Chinese people: New York, Los Angeles. Even Washington DC. There’s so much competition. If, on the other hand, you want to open a… authentic-adjacent, quality, shall we say, restaurant here, there’s definitely going to be good business. So we decided to help him [Chang]. At the time, he didn’t really know how to go about opening his own restaurant. So there were a few of us, a few investors, two others: five in total. So we put this restaurant together. In 2011.

 

L: So at that time, in Charlottesville, was there only one other Chinese restaurant? Or were there others?

 

H: Oh, no. Restaurants? There were many restaurants. In Charlottesville, I checked at the time. There were about twenty to thirty, including take-out places. But more authentic Chinese cuisine, no. I mean the kind of Chinese food Chinese people like to eat, or would eat. There was only Peter Chang’s old restaurant, Taste of China. At the time, it had very good business.

 

L: Very good?

 

H: Very good.

 

5:10 The Chinese community in Charlottesville

 

L: At the time, was there a big Chinese population in Charlottesville?

 

H: Not then, no. I think it had something to do with the University of Virginia not really pulling in a lot of foreigners at the time, especially not Chinese students. Because it was quite conservative.

 

L: Then?

 

H: No, even earlier. By the time we arrived they’d just started coming. But there were very, very few of them. Maybe because it’s a public university so it didn’t want for funds? For whatever reason, it was also quite conservative. And, on top of that, politically speaking — although I personally don’t get involved in this — politically speaking, this school draws a lot of Tibetans and Tibetan scholars. You know about this, right?

 

L: Yes.

 

H: So I think a lot of students from China, and professors, might’ve avoided it for that reason. So there weren’t many Chinese people.

 

L: But there’s more, today?

 

H: Oh, yes. Yes, very much so, these past few years. And it’s very apparent. Just these past three or four years.

 

L: Just the student population, or people who come to settle down?

 

H: Yes, more people have come to settle down as well. Including professors who come to teach at the University, and Chinese families. But speaking on the whole, there’s still not that many. Still, more than before.

 

6:35 Customer demographics

 

L: So do you mostly have Chinese customers, or locals?

 

H: I would say about 80% of our diners are local Americans. About 20% or Chinese.

 

L: Even now?

 

H: Yes, even now. From when we opened until now. Because this restaurant is, for the most part… To a Chinese diner who wants an authentic Chinese experience, it’s not quite it. Because traditional, authentic Chinese cooking uses a lot of oil, and it’s numbing, it’s spicy. Foreigners don’t eat this. But if you only catered to Chinese customers, there’s a limit, because the population here is so small. If you just did that, you couldn’t cover your expenses. In a place where the Chinese community is small, also, there’s frugality, there’s… These families we were talking about don’t really go out to eat in Charlottesville. I know a friend who’s lived in America for twenty years and he’s never gone out to eat. I said, if that’s the case, then who’s money are we making?

 

L: So he just cooks for himself!

 

H: Yes!

 

L: We call that a “house cat.”

 

H: So here, we do Americans’ business.

 

8:00 Doing business in Charlottesville

 

L: Let’s see here… So you mentioned earlier that you liked doing business in Charlottesville. Now you’ve been to DC, you’ve been to Los Angeles — but you think Charlottesville is better than both those places?

 

H: Yes. One reason is that Charlottesville is only two hours away from Washington DC. That’s the first reason. In terms of convenience, it’s not too bad. The other reason is that this city… is not like Lynchburg. Maybe in terms of size, it’s about the same, but Lynchburg is kind of spread out. Charlottesville, all 50 or 60,000 people are more or less in the same place. But the most important reason is that this is a college town. So our shareholders all agreed that culturally speaking, in general, it’s a bit higher. People know how to eat, know what to eat, and aren’t afraid to try new things. They’re willing to give you a chance. So I think that’s very important. If you do poorly, they just won’t come back. They’ll still say it’s delicious, of course, but they won’t come back.

 

L: So your produce — your vegetables, your meat — do you get it locally, or… Where do you get it?

 

H: We get it from a supplier. For the meat products, most of it we get from an American company in Richmond. All the restaurants… I’d bet most Charlottesville restaurants, a lot of the restaurants in this area, get their meat from Tom’s Meat. But for the vegetables we use in Chinese cooking, we have to get it from a Chinese company. Because American suppliers don’t carry it. So we get it from DC, Richmond…

 

L: Is this a big burden? Or have you just accepted it? Because I know a lot of other restaurants, they can get their supplies from local farms, local suppliers.

 

H: Yes, this is a problem. Because lots of things we need, things that Chinese people eat, they aren’t grown locally. There is an American supplier, Standard, but what we want is very specialized. So that’s something that’s a challenge for this small city — it’s a bit out of the way. We need some very special items. So that’s a bit inconvenient.

 

L: So do you have to go get it yourselves? Or do you order it specially?

 

H: We order it specially. So there’s two Chinese groceries here, we ask them to order them for us, but that raises the price. Occasionally we will go ourselves, to DC, and get things ourselves. At least once a week.

 

L: Ok. So let’s go back a little bit…

 

11:00 Comparing labor/work experiences

 

L: You said you went to LA to learn how to drive tour buses, and then you came back here and worked for the tour company, and then you opened the restaurant. So between these two lines of work, is there one you… That you found more fulfilling, or easier to do?

 

H: Between these two jobs… I did both of them for quite a long time, and neither of them I liked very much. But because in China, in terms of economic pressures, cultural pressures, we didn’t have many options. There were economic reasons and then, because of lack of education, we could really only rely on physical labor. Driving, too, is a very physical job. But, on the whole, when I was working for the tour company, I felt that… Well, I was always on the move, always meeting new people. We were mostly going up and down the East Coast. We’d go to Canada… Each trip was about 15 days. Driving to Montreal, to Toronto, to Boston. In the other direction, we’d go to Atlanta. Overall, that job was… pretty easygoing, I’d say. You were always somewhere different. So I feel like I came to understand the US. As for opening a restaurant, it’s just so exhausting. You’re chained to it. We usually open at 10:30 AM, and here we close at 9:30 PM. That’s 11 hours. That’s every day. Even though we might get a two hour break from 3 to 5, if you’re the manager, the responsibilities don’t stop. Even after you close, there’s responsibilities. Restaurants don’t always have big things, but the little things never stop. Every single day! Workers walk out and you’re short on staff; customers <complain>. There’s things with the equipment. Yesterday one of our stoves broke. Every day there’s something! So if you’re going to work with restaurants, just working in one is the best. But opening a restaurant, if you don’t have certain experience, certain physical health… I don’t recommend it to my friends. But if you’re a chef, with skills, who can cook well, it’s a pretty good deal. They make pretty good money. Our chef, he makes $4,000 a month. That’s what he takes home! That’s about the same as the governor of Virginia! Overall, opening a restaurant — if you do it well, if you have good dishes and good produce — and if you put some care into managing it, the money comes pretty quickly. Of course, if you do badly, the money goes pretty quickly too.

 

L: So quickly! My family’s been through that too.

 

H: Absolutely.

 

L: So you were saying when you were in Washington DC, you worked in a restaurant?

 

H: When I first came to the US, for about half a year, yes.

 

L: When you first arrived, ok. But you had no experience running a restaurant. So did you learn from others or did you figure it out yourself?

 

H: I worked with others to open this place. With the kitchen half of it, I wasn’t too worried, because two of my partners were chefs. Even in China, they were well-known chefs with lots of experience. And they had years of experience in America, too. So I wasn’t worried about the food. But for the front, we learned slowly. We put together all our experience and found someone to help us take care of front management. Things like taking care of the staff and so on. The employee you met, she’s from Indonesia, but our first manager was an American young man — Robert. They’re all very smart, very dedicated. We’ve always been very happy with them — everyone works very hard.

 

16:35 Unique difficulties of opening Chinese restaurant

 

L: When you first started, did you meet with any difficulties as a Chinese immigrant, or with opening a Chinese restaurant, that you don’t think American restauranteurs had to worry about?

 

H: Absolutely. As a Chinese person doing business in America, it’s important to understand the American market — very accurately. I know because, even though I’d never opened a restaurant before this one, I tried others afterwards and they didn’t go well — I didn’t judge the environment properly. I tried to open a place in DC with a friend and within a year, it folded. I must’ve lost $100,000… $80,000 dollars. The market, the environment, the flow of commerce, you have to nail that down. That’s why McDonalds does so well: they have a team that just studies this. The other thing is, as Chinese people, as immigrants who don’t speak English, we have to gain some level of cultural understanding. As for what culture is — for us it can be quite specific, as businessmen. I’ll give you an example. We have to read the contract and the lease carefully. If you can’t even pay attention to the lease, or you can’t understand it, you might as well not start. It’s not that I think they’re trying to trick us in the lease. It’s just that you didn’t read it properly. I had a friend in Richmond whose restaurant wasn’t doing so well, and without telling the landlord, he closed it. And afterwards he wanted to sell it. But the landlord told him, “You can ask the landlord in writing for accommodations or to lower the lease, but you can’t just close up shop.” If you close and within ten days, the landlord has no notice, he has the right to come and take everything in your shop. If you do that, you’ve lost all rights to the property. And, for the next couple years, until the end of the lease, he still has to pay rent. So my friend has a lot of problems now. You have to think about… When you do something, you have to pay attention to the language, do it properly. If you can’t do it, you hire someone to help you do it — a lawyer, someone who understands.

 

L: So you got someone to help you?

 

H: Yes, yes, yes. We had someone. One of the investors, he’d been in the US for a while and his English was better. So for all these outside contacts, this gentleman took care of it.

 

19:45 Living in Charlottesville

 

L: So… Let’s see. We’ve talked for a while about business. So you said you’ve been in Charlottesville for many years now. You said you had a daughter? She grew up here?

 

H: Yes! She just, uh, she graduated from the high school and right after that she went to UVA. After she graduated from UVA, she found a local real estate company and started working for them.

 

L: So aside from business, what’s the living environment been like for you?

 

H: Very good. The small city environment here is very good. One thing is, the living costs aren’t high, but the culture, the atmosphere, isn’t low at all! It’s small, so everyone is very warm, very inviting. You can see it on everyone’s faces. The community is good. It’s not like if you’re in New York or DC — if you greet someone, they look at you funny! But not here.

 

L: Yes, the South is different like that.

 

H: Absolutely.

 

L: So living in the US, was it just you who went to LA or did the whole family go?

 

H: No, when I went to LA it was just me. I was only there for a month and after I had the

operating license, I came back.

 

L: So your family has been in Charlottesville the whole time.

 

H: Yes, my wife was working at the Walmart. She worked at Walmart for… five or six years.

 

21:25 Future plans

 

L: Do you anticipate staying here in the future?

 

H: To tell you the truth, we don’t… I don’t think you can run a restaurant for too long. It’s too tiring. You tell people you’re tired and they say, “Well why don’t you hire someone to run things for you?” But hiring someone and managing it yourself is a world apart. We’re such a small operation, once you hire someone — then your margin disappears. All the profit we’re making is scratched out with hard work. In America, a restaurant’s profits are so low. All the rent, the tax, the produce — you carve out that profit where you can. In Charlottesville, in America in general. If there’s an opportunity, I’d like to find a better job. For me, myself, I quite liked working in the tourism industry. I’ve always wanted to get that here in Charlottesville. I wouldn’t have to run to DC for tourists every day, for instance. I could go once a week. I’ve thought about it — but I’ve never acted on it. I just think, if I did it, most of my customers would be Chinese people. And they spend money differently, you know what I mean? I don’t think I want to make their money. But if you want to make Americans’ money, it’s different. I don’t have the language skills… We’ve got two years left on this lease. We’ll renew it for another five years, and then we’ll have to talk to the landlord, have a look at the situation. Because the rent just keeps getting higher. And the market is changing. There’s too much take-out. The number of people coming to dine-in is not the same. It’s not like the past few years. And the other thing is, there’s too many restaurants! Just in this shopping center, this Barracks Road center, even. When we first opened, there were just a few restaurants. Now, just in this mall alone, there are five to six new restaurants. Just think about it. Everyone eats, but there’s probably only about 10,000 customers a day to go around. We’re pretty satisfied with where we’re at — we’ve more or less kept the flow constant. But it’s still going down. Every year, $5,000 less? And meanwhile, costs go up, the rent goes up. So the profit margin shrinks.

 

25:15 Labor

 

L: So, related to this then — and if you don’t want to go into details that’s perfectly fine — when you look for employees, do you look locally?

 

H: When I look for front staff — waiters and such — I look local. But for the kitchen, the cooks, I look outside. Locally there’s not a lot of Chinese cooks. I’ve got to look for specialists, specialist chefs. For the most part we find them through friends — from New York, from LA.

 

L: Do you train them yourselves?

 

H: Oh, of course. Every restaurant is a little different. We find people with experience, but all menus are different, all the ingredients are a little different. We can train them, bring them along a bit. Usually, within a week or two weeks, they can go it alone. What’s more — and you might already know this — real Chinese food isn’t like American cooking. In American cooking, for instance, the sauce is fixed. You just add it on. In Chinese cooking, we call the method “he sa”. Every dish, every time you make it, you make the sauce for it individually. It varies — with the amount, the timing. Adding things earlier, later: it changes the flavor. So when we’re looking for chefs… We can find some locally, and certainly the front staff is all local. But for the kitchen, we generally find people from China.

 

L: So how do you attract these chefs here to Charlottesville?

 

H: We have networks, to be sure. But to be honest, it’s not easy to bring them to this little city. When they hear about this little place…

 

L: Well, compared to New York or Los Angeles!

 

H: It’s true. Because they think this is the boonies. It’s “going down to the countryside.” Many people, they like the big city. But if they’re serious, if they want to make money or get their life in order — and if they’re smart, as opposed to just looking for hustle and bustle — they’re willing to come. They can save money, and there’s nowhere to spend money! And we take care of housing here. In New York, for instance, no one’s getting housing for you. In New York, a chef has only $500 to spend on housing — can’t even find a single room. Here, our pay, compared to that of a similar chef in Los Angeles, is $500 to $600 dollars more a month. You look at DC, a good chef only makes $3,000. Here, they take home $4,000 a month. So: the pluses are you make more money, you spend less money. The downsides are: it’s a bit slow — when they’re on break, they don’t have anywhere to go!

 

L: It’s not that bad!

 

H: Even if they want to spend money, they don’t have anywhere to do it!

 

L: That can be a good thing!

 

30:10 Designing a menu

 

L: So let’s talk about the menu. How did you figure it out, when you first started?

 

H: Ah yes, when we first started. This menu also was a result of the experiences of those two chefs. Because they had lived in the US for many years, they more or less knew what Americans’ tastes were. Between them, we figured out what the more popular dishes were. We also did some trial and error. But when it comes down to it, it’s pretty unique. A lot of other restaurants don’t have our dishes.

 

L: Yes, I’ve noticed that.

 

H: Yes… So, in the US, if you want to do well — and we’re speaking generally here — you have to go with Americans’ tastes. For instance, if you did real authentic Henan food, Americans wouldn’t put up with it. Our friends and I, we’ve always insisted, this isn’t authentic Chinese cuisine. This is… enhanced Chinese cuisine! So many Chinese customers tell us, for instance, “This… This isn’t Shuizhuyu!” And I’ll say, “Well, yes, you’re right, because if we made real Shuizhuyu, you’d eat it, but our American customers wouldn’t. I can’t just make it for you!” So, to go back to your question: this menu is the result of those two chefs learning from other restaurants where they worked, what succeeded there.

 

32:02 Becoming manager of Peter Chang

 

L: Those two original chefs though, they don’t… work here anymore?

 

H: They’re still with us! They’re the big investors — original investors! Those of us still here are their “underlings,” so to speak!

 

L: I see, so you’re the only one who comes in every day and keeps an eye on things.

 

H: Yes, for the past two years, I’ve been the manager. When we first opened — for the first four, five years, it was another investor. He also came to the US to open restaurants. But, recently, he’s getting up there in years, and he’s got his own place, so he left to go take care of his own restaurant. Up until recently as well, to be honest with you, on the weekends the tourism company was very busy and did very well. The money was pretty good. Now, though, the flow of tourism is bigger, it’s more independent — they travel by themselves, not with companies. So the business isn’t as good, and I left the tourism industry. These past few years, I’ve just been here.

 

L: Do you like to cook, yourself?

 

H: Of course! Of course I do. But I don’t cook much at home. Generally, if you run a restaurant, and this includes the chef, when you go home, you don’t want to cook anymore.

 

 

 

34:00 Chinese community in Charlottesville

 

L: Ok, let’s see… What else can we talk about. Ok: Would you say the Chinese population in Charlottesville has a lot of contact? Like would you say there’s a feeling of a community here, or not so much?

 

H: I would say there is, yes. Because there’s a Chinese church here. When we first arrived, there was already a Chinese church, which seemed to be… I should say it was pretty big. I don’t really know… It’s good when there’s a lot of us, but it’s also good when there’s fewer of us. When there’s lots of us, these conflicts pop up. For instance, the church split into two congregations. Then, this year in October, they came back together. Now — here let me check the WeChat group — just in the group, there must be a few hundred people.

 

L: So what’s the story there? Why did the church split, can you tell me?

 

H: Ah, that I can’t tell you.

 

L: Ok, ok… But they got back together again! So it’s alright now.

 

H: Yes! Our first priest, he left to go to Chicago, so right now there’s not really a priest here in Charlottesville. Usually I would say… there’s not too much coming together, probably to do with certain aspects of Chinese culture. But on Fridays, Saturdays, they still have church events. Here, [pointing at phone screen] just in this group there’s over 170 people. And that’s individuals, so that’s not counting their family members. If you count their family members — and most of these are families; there’s not many students in the church — that adds up to about 600, 700 people. If I had to guess, I’d say there’s about 1,000 to 2,000 Chinese people in Charlottesville now.

 

L: One to two thousand?

 

H: Yes, and that’s not including the students. I’m sure there’s many more of those.

 

36:05 Chinese international students in Charlottesville

 

L: Do you think there’s a lot of contact between Chinese international students and the local Chinese community?

 

H: Not a lot, no. But, I will say, the Chinese community here has always wanted to establish some ties to the international students. But really — I think there’s some big cultural differences there. Some people are doing this work, though, I just don’t know what the results are. I’m not sure if I approve of all this, really. But some people, they really want to, through this and that, reach out to these students, expand their social horizons. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But trying to influence people’s mindsets, their attitudes — that I don’t know about.

 

L: You must have a lot of customers who are international students!

 

H: Yes — that 20% of my customers who are Chinese, 15% are international students.

 

L: So these local Chinese families don’t come, just the—

 

H: Yes, Chinese families… They’re very private, pretty frugal. They don’t eat out. Of course, sometimes they’ll have an event or something… But for the most part, they eat out less.

 

L: What’s the evaluation, from these Chinese students?

 

H: Pretty good! They’re very smart. But I think their cultural background is a little different. They need some more time to really absorb the different environment in the United States. They’re new bodies. By the time they’re where you’re at — doing their graduate degrees, their doctorates — they’ve settled. But they’re very smart. I like them very much. For us, as adults, who are working… I mean, back then, in the 80’s, it was very hard to get into college. The atmosphere was very intense and stressful. Now, I hear it’s a little easier. Now almost everyone can go to university! Back then, it really was… And to go overseas, it costs a fortune. They’re here to learn, first and foremost. But I still think they’re a good bunch. Very smart, very polite…

L: Yes, I’ve recently started TA-ing and many of my students are from China and they’re all very capable.

 

H: They’ve still got some of their own differences, it’s true. For some things, when they see

something they don’t understand or can’t get used to, they leap to say something about it. But I think you need to consider something strange, and then formulate your response. Still, they’re young. When we were young I’m sure we couldn’t resist ourselves either. But it’s good to remind them. The earlier you can grow up, the better.

 

 

40:52 Return trips to China and impressions of China today

 

L: Do you still go back to China?

 

H: I do! Every two or three years, we go back.

 

L: So, looking at China today… and the US today… is there one that you’d prefer to live in?

H: Hm… Each has its positives. If I had my way, I’d be able to go back and forth more often. But, of course, with work, and family here, I spend more time here. But whenever I get a chance, it’s good to go see China — because the place is changing so quickly. I will say, Chinese people understand America far more than Americans understand China. China really is developing economically at an incredible rate. Some older Chinese people in America always like to point out where China is still lagging behind the US, but I think in terms of middle classes, there’s not much difference between the US and China. In some ways, I think the US is behind China even. Take healthcare — the US can’t keep up with China, even. Healthcare in the US is just a disaster. The poor, people who need help from the rest of society — you have to look after them. This is a matter of social responsibility. But you can’t disincentivize work! For instance, a lot of our employees, part time employees, ask for fewer hours. I say, “Why don’t you want more hours?” They say, “If I work more hours and make more money, I have to spend money on healthcare. Right now, at my current income, I spend almost nothing on healthcare. But if I even make a few more hundred dollars a month, suddenly I have to spend thousands!” I thought to myself, “Is that how things work here?” So then they say to me, “I’ll take more hours if I don’t have to report it; just give me cash.” And I can’t do that. Of course, if you get really rich — like Mr. Trump, the president, there — with a few billion dollars, these social problems mean nothing to you. Right now, I think if a household makes only $100,000, that can be a bit rough. But between $70 to $250,000 — that should be a comfortable life.

 

Let’s take Charlottesville. You might not even believe this. If you’re a two income household making $70,000, last year — maybe it’s less this year — if you buy Obamacare, the lowest coverage per month is $3,000. But I only make $70,000! And I’m spending $40,000 on healthcare! That just leaves me with $10,000 to $20,000 left. I might as well make less and then spend less on healthcare. It just makes no sense to me. And what’s more, in the US… Because it’s “the United States,” every state is different. Even if you’re just in Virginia, each city is different. You enjoy different privileges. Charlottesville — I did some checking — here, the healthcare costs if you make $100,000 are some of the highest in the country.

 

L: And this is something on your mind, as an employer? Because it’s not just about yourself…

 

H: Of course! Of course it’s on my mind. Lots of employees leave after a certain point. I think many aspects of American society aren’t like other countries — Well, I can’t say it’s unlike China. But a lot of people don’t seem to care about this. There’s some apathy here. There’s no big impulse to change society or politics. They don’t always go to their representatives, they don’t look for ways to make society more rewarding of hard work. You don’t want people to make an effort, you don’t let them make a living — I think that’s a big problem.

 

L: But you seem to be paying attention to all this!

 

H: Well, not particularly. It just blows my mind. You work so hard all year and for what! Maybe in a country like the United States, it’s hard because maybe there aren’t as many poor people. In a developed nation, it’s hard to rustle up the energy or the motivation. The economy, the politics… Sometimes… They say, it’s pretty easy to go from being poor to being middle class. But to go from middle class to being rich? That’s not so easy. Maybe society is just structured this way.

 

 

47:53 A11/A12

 

L: Last subject. As someone who’s lived here for many years, how did you… Last year, with the protests in August downtown, were you here?

 

H: Yes.

 

L: Did you feel like it affected you?

 

H: Well, that weekend… Just speaking for the business, we took a hit. But for myself — I thought this was something left behind in the past. Why are you trying to dig it up again? And something that failed? If it’s in the past, leave it in the past. Some people want to take the statue down. Do you really think taking a statue down is the same thing as erasing history? Or putting up a corrective plaque — how is that erasing history? I don’t think those people had a very developed or democratic mindset. It was just violence. But I think in the end — this city is very liberal, but Albemarle has always been quite conservative. Maybe it’s because American history is so short, on the whole, but there’s a lack fo historical thinking. Or else it’s not very mature historical thinking. How can you try to go back into the past and — even if it’s something that was right — try to go back and revive it? But most of all, I’m against the violence.

 

L: What I’m curious about is, as an immigrant, have you felt unsafe here ever?

 

H: Never. That’s one of the reasons we like it here: the city is small, but it’s open. All us immigrants, we can live together as a community. There’s a large African American population, a large Latino population… Not so many Chinese people. Quite a lot of Indian immigrants! A few Korean immigrants. But just here in our restaurant, I think about 5% of the customers are from India! They enjoy our food, too.

 

L: I think that’s it for now! Thank you.

Loader Loading...
EAD Logo Taking too long?

Reload Reload document
| Open Open in new tab

Download

From Mexico to Maryland: A UVA Student’s Story

Interview with a UVA student

by Eric Keener

This interview was conducted by Eric Keener with an undergraduate student from the University of Virginia who elected to remain anonymous for the purposes of this project. Both of her parents were born in Mexico. She was born in Mexico City and attended a French private school for her first few years of primary education. Soon after, she immigrated to the United States at the age of seven with her parents, brother, and grandmother. The family primarily left due to safety concerns, and managed to settle in Maryland.

The interviewee’s parents are very well educated, so their entrance into the country was smoothly granted. Upon arriving, her mother began to work in the World Bank, while her father found a position as an energy consultant for a private company. He has worked with corporations as well as the United States government.

The interviewee’s experience in Maryland was quite different from what she had been used to in Mexico. She recalls everything seeming so much more green than her hometown, and she mentioned how grateful she was to feel safe while walking around her neighborhood. Because of her lack of English language knowledge, she did not socialize much with the other neighborhood children at first. This was further exacerbated by the fact that she attended another French private school upon arriving, leaving her out of public education for many years. In order to help her pick up English, her parents sent her to a summer camp primarily populated by English speakers. The experience, while stressful at the time, as she recalled, it made speaking English far easier for her. The fear of making mistakes was practically gone at the end of the experience.

Once the interviewee reached high school, she was switched into a typical American public school. This came with several challenges, including navigating a very different form of curriculum from what she was used to. Her math knowledge was somewhat incomplete for the level of math she tested into, which was Algebra II. This struggle encouraged her greatly to study hard and suceed, and was one of the driving forces that led her to pursue a degree in mathematics. After high school, she managed to gain admittance into the University of Virginia, where she is working to gain her ideal degree in mathematics. In the future, she intends to continue her education into a prestigious Master’s program in mathematics.

The student has previously done much volunteer work, including work at her grandmother’s daycare service in Mexico and the Natural History Museum. The volunteer work at the museum eventually led to a job where she gave tours of the insect exhibit. Insects are one of her loves in life, so this was one of her favorite working experiences. She has also completed undergraduate research in the field of mathematics during the summer, and has mentioned continuing to work in the field on a separate project throughout the fall of 2018. The interviewee also participates heavily in on-campus community organizations, including the Native American Student Union (NASU), American Women in Mathematics, and a Christian organization, Chi Alpha. She also attends events held by the Latinx Student Association, although she had to step down from more responsibilities due to a busy class schedule and campus life.

The student identifies prominently with the Catholic faith. As she explains in the interview, her family certainly holds some from of Christian belief, but they are not particularly devout. Her extended family, however, is much more strict. When visiting, she and her immediate family have to be careful to mind all of the important traditions associated with Catholicism in Mexico.

As a fairly young immigrant, she brings a unique perspective on what it is like to enter contemporary America at a young age. Further, we discuss some current political issues to bring a more holistic perspective into the argument.

Interview: UVA student who immigrated from Mexico

[00:00:02] Eric: The date is October 27th, 2018, and I am here in Charlottesville. The time is 11:30. So, to get started, why don’t you just tell me a little bit about your family?

 

[00:00:12] Interviewee: Umm…I live in the U.S. with my dad, my mom, and my brother. My nanny also came with us. Uh…My brother is 2 years younger than. Umm…He’s currently in high school, which is interesting. (laughing) And, yeah, both of my parents are Mexicans and they were raised there their whole lives.

 

[00:00:42] E: So, um, what kind of drove your parents to come to the U.S.? If you know.

 

[00:00:50] I: Insecurity. Like, um…there was an incident with someone breaking into our house, and stealing- like like trying to get information. And my parents were just worried about like potential kidnappings, of my brother and I because luckily we were in school at the time. Yeah it was just like an unsafe environment, and my parents just wanted to. Get out of the.

 

[00:01:26] E: Seems fair to me. Um, so what time were you born?

 

[00:01:31] I: I was born in Mexico City.

 

[00:01:34] E: Woah, Mexico City. Do you have any memories of it? Or was it too early?

 

[00:01:38] I: Yes! No, I lived there until I was seven. Um, so…not too, not too old, but enough to remember quite a bit. Um…(chuckles) I also go back there twice a year for extended periods to see my family. And…(chuckles) that’s always been interesting (laughing).

 

[00:02:04] E: What kind of family still lives there?

 

[00:02:07] Ah, all of my dad’s family lives in Mexico City. All of my mom’s family lives in, um…Oaxaca, Mexico, which is in the southern part of Mexico.

 

[00:02:20] E: So when you go to visit I take it you visit both branches?

 

[00:02:22] I: Yes, one-hundred percent.

 

[00:02:25] E: Interesting! Um…so where did you first go to school

 

[00:02:33] I: Um…In Mexico? So in Mexico there was a French international school Whose name I honestly cannot recall (laughing). But, I started my schooling there from like pre-K up to…first grade. And so I moved here during second grade. Um…

 

[00:02:58] E: What were your first impressions upon making it to the United States? Did anything seem interesting, kind of stand out, or was it just sort of like, “We’re here”?

 

[00:03:07] I: Um, It’s very different because where I moved in Maryland it’s like very green, and it’s like very safe. Like, it’s just the idea that I can walk by myself and, like, not have to be worried. It’s very…like I have grown used to it, which is something that I am definitely very grateful for. Like, all the time. But it’s definitely not a given. Especially not when I was younger. Um…also TV (laughing). I watched a lot of TV when I was younger, and the fact that, when I got here, I didn’t know English, and like I could literally not understand what they were saying was very interesting.

 

[00:03:59] E: So, when you first came here, uh, what kind of school did you go to?

 

[00:04:04] I: I, uh, transferred to a French school in, uh, Maryland because my parents were worried about me going into an American school. Um…and that’s where I stayed…until the end of middle school.

 

[00:04:23] E: So with English, were you explicitly taught it in school, did you pick it up as you went along? How did that work?

 

[00:04:29] I: So technically our school did offer English classes, but the main priority was French classes so you only had English like once or twice a week for maybe an hour. I mostly picked it up because my parents (chuckles) put me in a summer camp with only English speakers. And they were like: (claps) go! (laughing)

 

[00:04:55] E: (Amused) That sounds interesting. Tell me about that experience.

 

[00:04:59] I: (Laughing) It’s more like, if you want to make friends, you gotta pick some stuff up (laughing). Um…And, obviously, my English was not…amazing after that, but it definitely got me to, um, to get out of my comfort zone and like to speak to other people. Um, So I grew very comfortable with English after that because it was like…once, once you go through that, you’re not really afraid of making mistakes anymore, cause you’re like (gesturing and laughter).

 

[00:05:42] E: That’s really cool. Um, so when you first move to the U.S., Describe the neighborhood. What was it like?

 

[00:05:50] I: Oh,um, it’s still the same neighborhood where my parents are still living in. And it’s changed…a bit in the last few,um, in the last few years. Um…I- since I went to the French school, which was a private school, I didn’t really know most of my neighbors at the time or like most of the people in my neighborhood. But, again, it’s like…a very green space with like a lot of like really friendly people. Actually when I first moved in, our neighbors came by and like dropped off brownies, and my parents and I were really freaked out (laughing). Uh, we were like, “Who are these people and why are they talking to us?” Um…so we didn’t talk to them for a couple of months (laughing). But, I Actually- I actually really appreciate them. They’re quite funny. But, Yeah.

 

[00:06:49] E: That’s really cool. Are there any neighbors in your head that kind of stick out as notable?

 

[00:06:58] Well, them, uh…quite frankly because…it’s different. Like you do know your neighbors back in Mexico, but um…it’s not. I mean, also I can’t make generalizations of every single neighborhood. But, in my experience, people don’t tend to like, have their neighbors over for dinner or like, go do stuff with their neighbors or community…like, just like a good sense of community, where you let people inside of your house just because they live next to you, you know. Um…I think that like has to be built on for a very long time before you have access to somebody’s house. Um, Like you can enter. But…that was like very different when we first moved in, where our neighbors were like, “Oh you want to come have dinner, you wanna, like do you want to play, like, basketball together?” You know? It was…very odd. Yeah I don’t- again, I didn’t really talk to most of
my neighbors when I first moved in because I didn’t go to school with our neighborhood kids or like, any of that.

 

[00:08:26] E: (Aside) Alrighty. Um, so when your parents first made it here, what jobs did they pick up?

 

[00:08:32] Um, well my mom, ah, was in the world bank and she still is. So she was able to transfer quite easily. My father used to work at um…at like this, like- He’s also an economist- but, um, it was like this governmental, like it’s not, like, in the government, but it works strongly with the government. It’s like a corporation on oil and energy resources, but when he moved here, like, he like let that go in order to like get us safely, you know. Um…and so, for a while it was like…kind of uncertain. So he started like working for this one company. But…yeah so like it was um, for a while it was like, not super stable, but then it got better.

 

[00:09:31] E: So that means your parents are pretty well educated upon arriving?

 

[00:09:39] I: Yes, yes.

 

[00:09:44] E: Um, alright. So, is religion a big part of the household?

 

[00:09:52] I: (Chuckles) Um, ah, not entirely. Mmm…both of my parents’ families are very religious, but my parents are not as much. So, if we are with the rest of our family, it’s like, very strict (laughing) like what you can and cannot say, but…like within my household, in Maryland, it’s, um….it’s a good time. (Laughing) They definitely encouraged me to like, look into religion and they um, they did go with us to…to mass on Sundays. Um, but they didn’t really push a belief on us, which is something that I appreciate, and has helped me like, make my own decisions about God which is very important. I think in faith like you have to believe. Somebody can’t believe for you.

 

[00:11:04] E: So do you identify with any specific denomination or just a believer?

 

[00:11:08] No, I am…I am definitely Catholic. Um, I’m part of a Christian group here on grounds which is like non-denominational, which has been a very interesting um…experience. Because…I- I had interacted with like, Catholics but also, there was a
lot of Jewish people in my neighborhood. And there was like- and I knew like a fair amount of people in Islam. But um…not other, like, Christians (laughing). Uh…and, yeah, I think it’s been good for me to like…learn about that, uh, cause if you don’t, like, there’s a lot of preconceptions if you don’t have education. So I’m glad for the knowledge.

 

[00:12:10] E: How’d you get involved with the group?

 

[00:12:16] I: My roommate (laughing). Honestly, I thought I was joining- like I- I was not going to join a religious group on grounds because I’d had, like, my own conflicts with religion, um…prior to coming to UVA. And…(chuckles) my roommate was very involved with this Christian organization. And she never like, pressured me to join, by any means. She did extended an invitation to another event and I decided to go, to make her happy mostly. And, um…I really liked it. Honestly, I thought- I thought there were all Catholics (laughing) when I first joined. But…yeah. That was not the case (laughing).

 

[00:13:19] E: Let’s go to some working and volunteering. What have you done in that regards?

 

[00:13:25] I: What do you define as working?

 

[00:13:27] E: Um, any kind of job. Something like that, something you did for an organization or whatever.

 

[00:13:33] I: During university or like in my life?

 

[00:13:36] E: In your life.

 

[00:13:37] I: Oh, okay, cool. Um, (under breath) where do I start? I…the first real job that I had was in high school, where I worked as a paid intern at the Natural History Museum, uh, mostly doing bug stuff (laughing). But, you know, like talking to people and visitors and just explaining a lot of specimens that we had and…just promoting knowledge, which is very important for me. I have done a lot of volunteering in the past. I think the first real volunteer experience that I had was, so my grandma, she, back like in Oaxaca, she and some of her friends started a children’s shelter for, like, children
who are…who the state doesn’t deem it, like, to be safe for them to stay in their households either because their parents are abusive or the families like too poor to actually take care of them, uh, correctly. Which is why it’s completely voluntary like they don’t, like, um…like there is an agreement, if the parents are alive, for them to stay there. And…I, uh, I would tutor the students there from- from everywhere in their elementary school. Um…and just like talk to them and play, because oftentimes I think people tend to forget that they’re still kids and that they still…they’ve gone through like some pretty rough things. But it’s important for them to still feel like normal kids, because their circumstances doesn’t…doesn’t dictate what they can be. Although it does heavily influence, but…that is a society issue not them. Um, And so I was very involved in volunteering all through middle school and high school, um, in organizations…like feeding the homeless, or I volunteered at the Natural History before I got my job. Um, I…picked up trash in a river once which is super interesting because then, like, you find out what people threw in the river and you’re like “I’m sorry, what?” One of the best days of my life (laughing). Clearly. Um, then the REU we did over the summer, and I’m currently working as a research assistant for one of the professors at UVA. Um…Yeah.

 

[00:17:04] E: That’s a good place to transition. So you’re attending UVA right now.

 

[00:17:11] I: Yes.

 

[00:17:12] E: Why did you choose it?

 

[00:17:19] I: That’s a fair question. I think, mostly because- I have known that I wanted to be a math, um, major, since I was in ninth grade. Um, and so one of the…and so I definitely wanted to go to Grad School for Mathematics and get a Ph.D. in that area. And one of the benefits of attending UVA is that there is a lot of, uh, help in that regard. There’s like five different majors within the math department, like different concentrations, right. And one of them is graduate preparation which, um, does put a little bit more emphasis in the classes that you should take before attending grad school. And if you have the- like if you are done with all of your requirements, then it’s kind- like before you have to graduate- then it’s heavily, um…recommended that you take Grad classes, which is something that is offered here, and that I, in the foreseeable future, hope to do. So, yes, mostly because of their concentration, their, uh, dedication to help promote their students to graduate school in mathematics.

 

[00:19:04] E: That’s good reasons. So you mentioned that since you were a freshman you wanted to be a math major. What inspired that?

 

[00:19:12] I: Um, When I first transferred from the French system to the American system like the first grade that I attended in the American system was, uh, ninth grade. I think I kind of hit a low in regards to my math schooling because I had to test into, like, my math class. Um…and so I studied for like a week trying to get all of the Algebra 1 and geometry curriculums down because the curriculum in the French school, in regards to everything including math, is very different than that of the American school. Um…So I technically hadn’t finished Algebra 1 nor geometry because they were done around, like, at the same time. Um…and so…but I wanted to see in Algebra 2 in ninth grade. So I studied in order to get there, and I did. But once I was actually in algebra 2, there was a lot that I didn’t know that…I needed to know in order to understand some of the, um…material that has been taught to us. And I think that was kind of a low in the sense that I was putting a lot of work in, but it was still very frustrating to not understand everything that everyone did simply because of my, uh…lack knowledge. But, it’s then when I realized that, despite the fact that I was, like, clocking in three or four times the hours that the other- uh, my other classmates were, I still really liked mathematics. And…It wasn’t necessarily that I loved it ’cause of the prestige it got me, because I obviously wasn’t understanding it as well as some other people, and it wasn’t that I found it easy so that’s why I liked it. I just- I liked the way things worked, and I honestly couldn’t have seen myself doing anything but that.

 

[00:21:42] E: That’s Really cool. So on campus, What kind of organizations are involved in?

 

[00:21:53] I: So that’s…So at the beginning of the school year, I was involved with a lot more, but I had to- I had to step down because of my classwork and because of…how I was more involved with some organizations. Like, I am vice president of the Native American Student Union which- which means I have to be attending a lot of meetings every two, three days. So that definitely takes away from a lot of time that I would spend on other organizations last year. I’m also, um, exec for American Women in Mathematics, which implies that I have two meetings and work on other stuff, which I’ve been slacking honestly, but (laughing), you know? And I’m part of, um, Chi Alpha, which
is a Christian organization, and that also takes quite a bit of time. Um…as part of my duties in NASU, Native American Student Union, I have to be involved in the MRC, which…I can remember exactly what it stands for but it’s like the minority coalition group. So, I have to be involved in their council, uh, ’cause we all like to get together and we talk about different things that are going on in the university. Um, and those are really my main involvements because I’ve had to step away from the other things while I get every- because I don’t believe in, um…not doing your best in what you’re currently doing. So I didn’t want to…take away the seat of somebody else in the other organizations that I used to be in knowing that I couldn’t commit as much time as somebody else could. But I used to be involved in LSA because we used to have a committee that I was in, but then, like, things got restructured, which is fine (laughing). Um, I still participate in some of their events, but I wouldn’t say that I’m…I’m not part of an, an executive board, which is very similar to a lot of the other LSA, um…organizations that I’m- I don’t consider myself part of, since I’m not in the decision making. But, we all have like a group chat and when there is an event that…needs help, and it’s something that I strongly believe in, I usually go and show my support. But yeah.

 

[00:24:53] E: And, uh, just to clarify the LSA is, uh…

 

[00:24:57] I: Latinx Student Association or Alliance. I’m not sure.

 

[00:25:02] E: Uh Busyschedule, busy schedule. So after you’re done with your education, what are your career goals?

 

[00:25:13] I: Oh my gosh. Um…honestly, I’m not quite sure, uh, given that I definitely want to study a Ph.D. in mathematics, but I personally couldn’t see myself as a teacher, nor as a professor, because I think those two are very challenging, um, in- in ways that are not necessarily my forte. Um, I personally…one of the things with being a math professor is that you have to…your research could take years, and you still couldn’t come up with- like, you might still not come up with a result. Um, and I feel like I need more immediate gratification than that (laughing), because it takes very specific type of people to be able to, like, bang your head against a wall constantly and still keep going. Um…so I’m not quite sure, but I’m still making my mind up.

 

[00:26:33] E: One last question about the university. What do you think about the campus? Are the people friendly, competitive?

 

[00:26:43] That’s a very complex question considering the amount of people that there is at UVA, like, just within my different social groups. Um, the people in each are very different to each other and have different priorities. Um…I would say that I’ve met good people and I’ve met not-so-good people (laughing). As in…I knew where you could go. Um, Unfortunately, I think, um, some of the not so good people seem to have a bigger voice than the general population, who is either neutral or like pro, uh…humanity, I’d like to say (laughing). Although neutral is not necessarily, like, the best stance on that point, but it is the truth. That’s definitely something that…I, Would hope, change Yeah, it’s- there’s good people and bad people everywhere (laughing).

 

[00:28:13] E: Fair, very true. To transition to our last little part, here, um, what are your opinions on the U.S. political climate right now?

 

[00:28:26] I: Um, I think a lot of things are oversimplified, in the sense that…I think media plays a big part in that. That, things have to be spoon fed to the public, and I am, um…I’m not above that, either. I will gladly admit that, at times, I tend to not do my own research, and it is just convenient to read the first article, um, instead of like looking into various. Um, but I do think that’s something that affects dearly what is going on, currently, in the U.S., and everywhere, if we’re being honest. There’s like a very…It’s…it seems like people, ah…think that, since some other people who are more influential are able to say whatever they want, that, that is their god-given right as well, instead of holding others to higher standards, um, and just trying to care for their fellow neighbors. Um…It’s, um, basically, I think a lot of people have been slacking off in, um, in doing their own research and that that also includes only reading things that correspond with your own political ideals. and… fact that, in the U.S., there’s only- there’s really only two main parties, is very much an issue because any issue should have more than two options. Uh, because there’s a lot of intersectionality with everything really. For example, If you have, um, a lot of the environmental issues mostly affect minority races because they’re not able to move away from the situations or they don’t have as big as a, like, a these things happen. And that also goes along with education, like if you’re in a place people don’t want maybe that place also, like, have the best education system,
and it’s just a very big cycle. Um, and people have to realize that any decision that you make will affect something else.

 

[00:31:26] E: Yeah, that’s very true. Um…what’s your opinion on this rising kind of anti-immigration sentiment? Is it…

 

[00:31:36] I: Um…I think it’s…very dehumanizing, uh…because, I think, since a lot of things have- a lot of hatred, um….has come about this issue and this unders– like not really understanding where people are coming from, but also the fact that people who seem to understand also…don’t want to, like, listen to people who don’t understand and they don’t want to listen to- there’s a very big breach of communication between…between both sides of the political system. And I think that has harmed very much the immigration policies because it’s no longer seen as people. It’s more seen like a political issue. And, it’s like, “Oh, no, we’re just debating about ideas.” We’re not debating as whether people should not be locked up in camps (laughing). Because these are real people who have real families, and even if they didn’t have families, they’re still people, and they should be treated as such. I think it’s less of a question about the immigration system as much as a question of…how unempathetic are we as a society in regards to, like, and it’s not just how unempathetic are we to immigrants, but how unempathetic are we to people who don’t understand the immigration problem we’re just like, “Oh, you’re just too dumb to understand.” That’s also very dehumanizing because not everyone has the same access to resources and understanding, uh, which by no means means that everyone who does understand must, um…is expected to teach others. You are a person. You have the right to live as you wish, you know? But…it’s two sides of the same coin. If you want respect, you must give respect. And, right now, I don’t really see either side doing that, and the immigration problem is just caught in the crossfires.

 

[00:34:34] E: That’s a very good perspective, I like that. I guess…that about draws down. One last thing about politics: the, uh, DACA. How do you feel about that?

 

[00:34:54] I: Honestly…DACA was only a temporary solution, like, even from when it first was, um…written into law. It was only supposed to be used as a means to get these people to more…stable conditions, and, in that sense, I think that it’s good that it was taken away. But it should have been taken away with, um, without leaving people in
limbo, right, and with providing people with actual opportunities who have contributed to the American society without, even like- ‘cause DACA, recipients, right, it was either people who- it’d been people who lived here their, like whole life, basically- and who had either…who were either studying or working. So they were definitely people who were contributing to the American economy and society. And, even if they weren’t, they’re still people, like- you still deserved to be treated as such and not be treated as…illegal, because that…makes no sense. Like, how can a person be illegal? Like, perhaps your status is, but that does not define you as a person. Uh, and I think that that’s also something that’s happened a lot in our political climate, like labeling. Um…and just reducing someone to one word. And, really, the only word that should matter is that you’re human. But apparently, that’s not enough. Um…so, I think that, yes, DACA has been essentially taken away, but I think that that’s also an opportunity to provide people with a more stable, uh…situation to stay here in the U.S. where they’ve contributed to society and could have their own families but definitely have their own communities.

 

[00:37:30] E: That’s a really nice thought. That’s about the end of this. Are there any closing remarks you’d like to make? Something you’d like the people to know?

 

[00:37:39] I: I think that people should be involved in all of these issues that we’ve talked about, regardless of whether you have…whether you’re part of Latinx community. Um…’cause this is, at the end of the day, like, a people issue, not one section, “I am this by blood so I have the right to speak about this.” Um, so, just empathy and involvement in the political climate regardless of who you are or which community you belong to. It’s more about treating others as humans and not about treating them as a label and a stereotype.

 

[00:38:33] E: That’s a very nice sentiment. So, that’ll be the end of this, so, thank you so much for your time.

 

[00:38:37] I: Yes, thank you.

 

Loader Loading...
EAD Logo Taking too long?

Reload Reload document
| Open Open in new tab

Download

Interview of Father Miguel Melendez

Interview with Father Miguel Melendez

by Nicolas Gonzalez Ortega

The interview below is between myself and Father Miguel Melendez, the local priest at Blessed Sacrament Catholic Church in Harrisonburg, Virginia. In the interview, Father Melendez discusses his background, his relationship with the Catholic Church, and the role of the Church in Harrisonburg. I chose to interview him because of the increase of Latin immigrants to the area, and thought it would be interesting to get a perspective from a community leader who works with the immigrants.

Nicolas Gonzale:               00:01                     My name is Nicolas Gonzalez. It is November the 14th, and I am here with Father Miguel from the Blessed Sacrament. As we start, could you please tell me your name, your age, and who you are?

Father Miguel:                   00:16                     Sure. Father Miguel Melendez. I’m 34 years old, and I’m a Catholic priest from the Diocese of Richmond, Virginia. I was ordained about a year and a half ago. I spent five years in the Coast Guard before six years of seminary, and then also I went to the Coast Guard Academy. Grew up in Blacksburg and Christiansburg, Virginia, and I love Jesus.

Nicolas Gonzale:               00:42                     What made you decide to become a priest?

Father Miguel:                   00:45                     Well, for that last thing that I just said, love Jesus and love of the church, and actually part of it was my interaction with Latinos. I went to Our Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico and just seeing their devotion and their beauty and just the wider church, I think, helped me to fall in love more with them and more with the church and more with God. That was the biggest thing, just having a love for God and the church and having peace for giving my whole life to that as opposed to being married or being in a secular job, to actually to work fully and a hundred percent for the church.

Nicolas Gonzale:               01:32                     More on the Latino community helping you, so where does your family originate from?

Father Miguel:                   01:40                     My dad is from Chile, and my mom is from Virginia. My dad came to the States when he was six and grew up in the States. My mom’s side of the family, they’re very European-American, Irish, German, all sorts of different backgrounds, but basically American. Born in Corpus Christi, raised in Virginia, Blacksburg area.

Nicolas Gonzale:               02:13                     Could you tell me a little bit about your childhood, your education? Were you raised religious?

Father Miguel:                   02:19                     Yes. I was a cradle Catholic. We went to church every single Sunday. I would say that as we grew, my parents became more devotional, so with Lenten devotions, with reading the word of God. They also participated in some conversion-type experiences like going to Cursillo, like retreat conversion-type experiences, and that helped me. Also, listened to a lot of Christian music, especially as I got older. Then I went to public schools in kind of a Bible-believing area, and I think that also helped me with my Catholicism.

Father Miguel:                   03:04                     At the Coast Guard Academy I started praying the rosary and going to Bible studies and owning my faith for myself for the first time, and that also helped me to have that conversion experience. Then I left the Coast Guard, and I did six years in seminary. I have a master’s in divinity and a sacred baccalaureate in theology, essentially master’s degrees for ministry.

Nicolas Gonzale:               03:32                     All right. Then how did you end up in Harrisonburg?

Father Miguel:                   03:36                     That’s a good question. My bishop, yeah, Bishop DiLorenzo, he passed away about a year and a half ago. He sent me here. I didn’t necessarily have the choice. The bishop sends the priests. He might ask them where you’re interested in going, but part of it was having a background in Spanish and Harrisonburg having essentially almost a 50 to 60% Spanish, at least Catholic population.

Nicolas Gonzale:               04:10                     50 to 60%?

Father Miguel:                   04:12                     Of our Catholics here in Harrisonburg are Spanish, and so it’s kind of a requirement to be able to speak Spanish and be somewhat familiar with the culture. Ever since I started seminary, that’s been a part of my walk to be with the Hispanics in the Catholic faith.

Nicolas Gonzale:               04:33                     How would you compare religion in the community where you grew up and then religion in Harrisonburg, so in the sense of community? How was the community involved religiously where you grew up and how is the community, more so the Hispanic community, involved in religion here?

Father Miguel:                   04:57                     When I grew up in Christiansburg, there really wasn’t a Hispanic population there at the time, and there actually is a Hispanic community going to the Catholic church now in Christiansburg in my home parish. I said I grew up in Blacksburg, but Christiansburg really is the town that I grew up in. There was a lot of Christians, and so a lot of people practiced the Christian faith, few Catholics. I went to a parish that was maybe 100 families. Here at Blessed Sacrament we have something like 2000 families.

Father Miguel:                   05:32                     So it’s a huge difference in the size of the church and the community, which we continuously try and build community, smaller communities, out of this big, big community, so that way there is more of a sense of community. But I do feel that the Spanish are very, very welcoming and generous and love community as well, but at the same time they’re not perfect. There can be jealousy and factions and divisions and stuff too, but I think for the most part they’re a very proud, supporting each other and the priests type of community as well.

Nicolas Gonzale:               06:21                     Now, where are most of these families from, would you say, what country or is it-

Father Miguel:                   06:28                     The majority are from Mexico and then a large population from El Salvador. We also have Guatemalans, some Hondurans and just an interspersing from all over essentially Latin America, a few from Argentina and Chile type area, the majority from Central America. And then we’ve got one or two Cubans and a number of Puerto Ricans, that type of thing.

Nicolas Gonzale:               07:03                     Then considering the population, would you say most of them are involved in the church? Would you say most of the community is religious or just some of it?

Father Miguel:                   07:18                     I would say we only have a fraction of the percent. We have on Sundays our largest mass is a Hispanic mass. There’s a ton of Latinos who come. I mean, we hold 600 essentially in our worship space, and it fills all the way to 600, sometimes 7-, sometimes 800. Very crowded, lots of kids. But in comparison to the wider Hispanic population that are Catholic, that’s probably a quarter or 10% of the Hispanic Catholics actually coming to mass.

Father Miguel:                   07:56                     I would say part of that is a lot of them work seven days a week, including Sundays, and/or they’re working 12 hours six days a week, so they’re I think exhausted. I think that’s part of the reason why, but another part is they watch soccer or they’re lazy. A lot of the guys, there’s kind of a machismo culture too, and they just don’t come.

Nicolas Gonzale:               08:20                     Then is it mostly women and children who come and also elderly people, and the men are either working or at home then?

Father Miguel:                   08:36                     You could say the majority is women and children, but there are a lot of men who come too. And there’s a lot of families who come together and, of course, elderly as well. Yeah.

Nicolas Gonzale:               08:56                     So changing the subject a little bit.

Father Miguel:                   08:58                     I would like to comment really quick though, sorry, on the religious sense of the Spanish people. Whereas it seems like the white culture, for lack of a better way to put it, might be hesitant to come to church or there’s more of a culture just not to go to church anymore, the Spanish still seem to have this religious sense, this kind of God sense, and they come regardless of what they have going on in their life a lot of times.

Father Miguel:                   09:33                     Even though we only have 10% of that community, in comparison to, say, the white American community, I’d still say that it’s a larger. They still have this sense that even if they’re not living within the moral standards of the church, they still want to come. Whereas it seems like white people, if they have something going on in their life, then they just don’t come anymore.

Nicolas Gonzale:               10:01                     It’s interesting that you mention it. I remember growing up in Chile we used to go to church every Sunday, but a large part of that was because nothing happened on Sundays. Meanwhile, here there are events on Sundays, many kids play sports or other things like that. Do you think the fact that traditionally Sundays are a religious day for Hispanics, you think that that influences just the fact that they come more, that for their whole lives they’ve seen Sunday as reserved for the Lord? You think there’s a different understanding? Let me phrase the question out of this. Do you believe that devotion is seen differently between the cultures?

Father Miguel:                   10:52                     Absolutely. I’m not so sure how much it has to do with Sunday. I talked about work on Sunday. If there’s anything that keeps them back, it’s work and probably, like I said, football, meaning soccer, and/or the machismo sense and some people just being lazy and just not coming. In terms of devotions and I think in terms of just being Catholic that in some senses for them it might mean more because they’re directly from their country where maybe the church was persecuted.

Father Miguel:                   11:38                     For example, I think there is this sense that the priest is very special because in Mexico they were killed by the thousands in, I can’t remember, in the early 1900s, but also the government persecuted the church in a number of Communist countries, including, I’m not sure if Nicaragua was one.

Nicolas Gonzale:               12:03                     Nicaragua, El Salvador.

Father Miguel:                   12:04                     But I feel like Guatemala or El Salvador, yeah. Because now you have that new saint, Oscar Romero, who very much fought for the church basically versus the government against persecution.

Nicolas Gonzale:               12:18                     And the church has always been a symbol of fighting back against that oppression. In Chile, the pope came when we had a dictator, Pinochet, and he spoke against oppression and that they had to stop. So I believe for a lot of Latin Americans, the church has always been a symbol of hope and has always been there for them in these times.

Father Miguel:                   12:37                     Yes.

Nicolas Gonzale:               12:40                     Bringing it back to you, how would you say your job within the church has changed from when you first got here?

Father Miguel:                   12:54                     Like when I first arrived in Harrisonburg?

Nicolas Gonzale:               12:56                     Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Father Miguel:                   13:00                     It’s a great question. I arrived in 2017, so I’ve been here for about a year and four or five months or so. I think when I first arrived it was just learning how to be a priest and getting to know the people for about the first six to eight months or so and without as many collateral duties. Now I’m very much a part of planning for many different, like adult faith formation, also the liturgy, meaning organizing the different ministries at mass, the readers, the Eucharistic ministers, the altar servers, but retreats, youth ministry, kind of all of these different things I’ve been given in the meantime. And I’m much more involved because I know more people. It’s nonstop.

Nicolas Gonzale:               14:04                     Now, would you say your role within the Hispanic community that you play has changed from when you first got here? Do you believe you’re more involved? You believe that your words carry more weight?

Father Miguel:                   14:18                     Perhaps. I think they’ve gotten to know me more since then, and I’m much more comfortable is maybe one of the biggest differences, so like when I preach in Spanish. I’ve been around them. I used to be so much more nervous, perhaps one part not knowing the community and then another part just being a little bit more shaky in my Spanish. But yeah, I think I’m more comfortable now, and it’s easier to go from an English homily, an English message to a Spanish message for me. I don’t know if that answers that question well.

Nicolas Gonzale:               15:04                     That’s good. Where do you see the church in 10 years in Harrisonburg? Where do you see the Hispanic community in 10 years in Harrisonburg, and where do you see the relationship between the church and the Hispanic community in 10 years?

Father Miguel:                   15:19                     Okay. I think we’ll grow, and the reason why I say that, there’s a couple reasons. The economy is only getting better here in Rockingham County and Harrisonburg, and I think it won’t stop because of the universities. As a result, the church will continue to grow, but also the universities but also the different distribution centers and the turkeys. It’s just a bustling economy. With more jobs comes more people comes a bigger church.

Father Miguel:                   15:53                     I think within our church too we’ll continue to grow, the Catholic Church that is, because we’re focusing more and more on discipleship and evangelization and walking with people and getting to know them and getting them more and more in these smaller communities. I think that will help. That’s the church and the church in Harrisonburg. What was the second one?

Nicolas Gonzale:               16:20                     The Hispanic community in 10 years.

Father Miguel:                   16:23                     The Hispanic community will grow too, absolutely. As Harrisonburg grows, so will they, but because this is a central location for Hispanics, so many of their families are here already, they’ll just keep moving in. More and more will come. Whether it’s from already within the United States or even if they just keep coming from Latin America, they’ll keep coming. Then within the church, Hispanics together, was that the last one?

Nicolas Gonzale:               16:54                     Yes. Do you believe that Hispanics will continue to be as active? Do you think they’ll be more active? Do you think that as time develops and they settle down from first being illegal and then the first generation, do you believe that their involvement will change?

Father Miguel:                   17:13                     That’s a really good question. It really depends on how we evangelize again, for lack of a better … Evangelize meaning spreading the gospel and good news-ing, giving the people the message of Jesus Christ. If we stick to traditional ways, then as they settle and, say, second generations start to raise up, they might leave more because that’s just what we’ve seen in America.

Father Miguel:                   17:42                     As people encounter a lot of doubt with religion and they’re faced with very difficult questions like the church teaches this but I have a different experience and society says this, I might want to leave, I don’t understand, instead of actually looking into it. If they don’t have this foundation of Jesus Christ and this kind of love for the church, they’ll leave. It really depends on us. If we’re able to help them build that and on what they have, then they’ll stay active, but if we’re not, they’ll leave just like every other generation. I mean, the majority, you could say. There’s people who stay, but a lot of people leave.

Nicolas Gonzale:               18:29                     An interesting point that you brought up, this love for the foundation of the church. What does the church do here to promote that love within the community?

Father Miguel:                   18:44                     What we do, we do church services, I guess. We believe that Jesus Christ is present in the Eucharist and the mass and in the church, in the sacraments, so sacraments meaning a visible sign of an invisible reality, of something actually happening and essentially these signs that Jesus left to be with us to walk with us on our life journey, so marriage, baptism, baptism being birth, marriage being that vocational or priesthood or being fed by the Eucharist, et cetera. That’s what we’re doing to maintain that foundation just normally, but also we’re trying to extend that baptismal sacrament, that sacrament of conversion into discipleship and evangelization.

Father Miguel:                   19:32                     So there’s this group called Kerygma, and they’re very charismatic. It’s a very, very kind of alive group, and then we also have these other two groups called Legion of Mary. They pray the rosary every week. They go out in the community, and they advertise for the church. We do retreats, and we also have Parish Council and that talks with the Hispanic community. There’s just a lot of different ways, youth ministry as well, religious education. All of these ways come together to try and foster that relationship in Jesus Christ and the Spirit.

Nicolas Gonzale:               20:15                     Two final questions, what are some changes that you would like to see in Harrisonburg in the Hispanic community to essentially, I guess, help themselves? What are some things that you think that the community in the area could do to help themselves within the church and also just within the general Harrisonburg area?

Father Miguel:                   20:45                     Like are we talking from a governmental standpoint or … ?

Nicolas Gonzale:               20:49                     Just getting involved more so. Do you believe that there’s a disconnect, first of all, within the Latino community from the larger Harrisonburg community?

Father Miguel:                   21:07                     I do think that one still exists, that language remains a barrier; language and culture remains a barrier. They bring their culture, and they live it out. But it seems that the predominantly white culture still maintains a distance, a separation from, and I think it’s natural. I think it just happens, but I do think that acculturation is happening. We’re seeing some Latinos even if they’re second generation be elected to city council. I think we just had one elected to city council. A number of them have jobs that are managerial positions and different things. Whereas the majority of them I think still work in blue collar, some of them are moving up to white collar positions.

Father Miguel:                   22:09                     I think what I would like to see is that that city help foster that and Rockingham County help foster those things and continue to welcome them as opposed to … I think the city does but as opposed to, “You’re not welcome here because maybe you came in a status that wasn’t legal,” or whatever the case is. Whereas these people have been here for sometimes 10, 20, 30 years, and they’ve only been adding to the community. They’ve only been working for the community and basically pumping money into the economy.

Father Miguel:                   22:53                     Within the church was the second?

Nicolas Gonzale:               22:56                     Yes.

Father Miguel:                   22:56                     For what changes I would like to see?

Nicolas Gonzale:               23:01                     Yeah. What changes would you like to see within this church to further help include the Latino community or help them out in a sense?

Father Miguel:                   23:17                     I would like our church to own that we have a ministry that is largely Hispanic and to really support it both by mouth and our welcoming presence. In other words, not only the Hispanic community, which does this, but also the white community, to really, really reach out and when you see a Hispanic person to say hello, to wave, to get to know them even as opposed to just letting them walk by and go to their functions. And continue to offer both Spanish and English services as much as possible, because you have to do that.

Father Miguel:                   24:15                     The youth is a huge thing too because we have so many of them. I think a lot of our programs are geared towards adults. We have one youth minister here, but our youth need guidance, and they need direction. I would like the Hispanic community to embrace that too, not just feed themselves but feed their kids and not just drop them off for religious education but help make things happen. I think that might be an area that we struggle with and that we can improve on too.

Nicolas Gonzale:               24:52                     All right. Well, thank you very much for taking the time out to do this interview today.

Father Miguel:                   24:57                     My pleasure.

Nicolas Gonzale:               24:57                     All right.

 

Loader Loading...
EAD Logo Taking too long?

Reload Reload document
| Open Open in new tab

Download