[00:18] José Cardoso: I am José Cardoso Martinez. I am twenty-four and I’m originally from Mexico and I’ve been in the US for the last fifteen years, fourteen to fifteen years.

[00:33] E: When did you come over from Mexico? At what age?

[00:36] J: I think I was around nine or ten years old. I can’t really tell you exactly. I know it was in 2003 and I was in third grade when I arrived here at Harrisonburg, Virginia.

[00:52] E: What was that transition like from moving from Mexico to the United States? What do you remember about that process?

[00:57] J: It was really hard, to be honest, coming to a new country with no English at all, not knowing anyone. Of course my dad had some family, some relatives, living here, but it’s still not the same. You’re used to having friends having your whole family in your country and then showing up somewhere else you have to start brand new. So that was really hard that whole process, and it took a while to get used to the culture here in the US and to start making friends again and to start picking up the language and so it wasn’t easy at all.

[01:38] E: And so you say your father, did he have family here in the area? Or what was the connection that brought you to Harrisonburg.

[01:43] J: Yeah my dad was a migrant worker for ten or twenty years, something like that. He used to work in Oregon state and then once he was finally able to obtain documentations for my family and I to come to the US he decided to move here to Harrisonburg. And the connection was my uncle. My uncle was working here, he had been living here in Harrisonburg for a few years, and he told my dad, want to try Harrisonburg? There are poultry plants for your wife. There’s good schools for your children and jobs around poultry plants and construction for you to come. So that’s when my dad decided to come to Harrisonburg. He was here for six to eight months before my mom, my sister, and I actually arrived, but I guess he liked it so we landed in Harrisonburg.

[02:49] E: So when he came over was he working in the poultry factories? What was he doing when he first came over?

[02:55] J: No, as soon as he came over, my uncle was working under construction and he got my dad a job right away. I think he only had to wait like a week or two or something like that through the whole hiring process. My dad has been working in the same place ever since. Construction for the last 15 years that we’ve been here. He went from working in the fields and picking apples and other fruit to working construction.

[03:28] ES: Did your mom also work when you first came over?

[03:31] JC: In our community there was a lot of unregistered babysitters, so my mom was like a babysitter in the neighborhood where we used to live because we lived in a little trailer. It was a two-bedroom trailer for four people. She was like a babysitter during the day, my dad was a construction worker, but that was only for the first couple months, first six or eight months and after that my mom was like, well I need benefits. How about if I get injured? I need insurance. So that’s when she decided to work in the local poultry plants. She worked in several ones, then she got laid off from one I can’t remember the name of it. She got laid off because I think that was when the economy started to go down here or something like that. Then after that, she changed poultry plants. Now she’s working Purdue in Bridgewater and she’s been there for I think a good ten, twelve years now I believe.

[04:37] E: When your father came over, he had documentation and then was he was able to get documentation for the rest of your family? For you, your mother, and your sister? How did that process go?

[04:46] J: No, my dad was undocumented when he first arrived to the US. He came several times to the US undocumented and during his last time he was – both him and I talk about it – and he was like, the last time I was coming to the US, I was like I’m going to make enough money, be here for one year and make enough money so I can go back to Mexico and start a small business: a small store. That was his plan. But that last year that he came, that’s where something happened in the US where they started giving documents to several people, I can’t remember who was the president. Either way, that year he applied and thanks to his boss in Oregon he was able to receive documents and as soon as he got his documents he put the application for my family. And I believe he put that application in ’93 or something, 80’s or 90’s, it was around the early 90’s when he put that application in. My family and I did not receive our documents until the early 2000’s, so it took like ten years and tons of talks with lawyers and tons of money from my dad apparently, but during those ten years he was coming back and forth from Mexico to the US. He would spend 9 months in the US working, 3 months in Mexico visiting us and then would do it all over. But once we obtained our documents he said, okay, you guys are ready. You don’t have to suffer crossing the border, crossing the desert or river or anything like that. You guys are ready. So that’s when he decided to bring us here to Harrisonburg.

[06:50] E: What was that trip like? Did you drive all the way from where you were to Harrisonburg?

[06:55] J: I still remember the trip. It wasn’t good, trust me. I was little kid, nine years old, I still remember I was excited. Back in Mexico if you say that you’re going to the US they’re like, oh yeah, you’re going to the US! That’s awesome! I was like, yeah I’m going to the US! I didn’t know what it meant, I didn’t know that I wasn’t going to have any family or anything so I was like, this is going to be cool. I remember getting on the bus and the first hour it was all cool. We came on a bus so I think it was a two or three-day drive from Guanajuato, Mexico, where I’m from, all the way here to Harrisonburg. It was like a two, three-day drive and it was awful. It was stop after stop; you’re tired. It takes a long time, but as soon as I got here, as soon as I got into the border, I remember the bus stop. There were dogs and people checking who were like, well, let me see your documents, and I was like, Dad why are they asking this? And he was explaining that you need to present your documentation so they can let you in. People were getting off the

bus, some people were getting on and I guessed this was normal because this was my first time. Then we came to the US and I was like, man, this is nice. Everything’s different. As soon as you cross the border, you can notice a difference between Mexico and the US. As soon as I got here to Harrisonburg, that’s when it hit that it was going to be difficult. I remember crying most of the nights for at least the first year of being in school. I cried and told my mom, I don’t know why you brought me here to the US. I don’t want to be here in the US, let’s go back. And they were like, no, this is your new home and you’re going to stay here. So yeah, it was rough for the first year. I’m pretty sure my dad was like, did I do the right decision or not, but I guess in the end he did.

[09:03] E: What was it like when you first were in Harrisonburg not being able to speak English and being enrolled in the schools here? What was that experience like?

[09:11] J: It was hard, it was hard. I remember, when we arrived my dad had a small trailer like I said – a two-bedroom trailer on country club road. The trailers are still there so it brings back a lot of memories when I drive though that road. It was a small trailer. The good thing was that there was a lot of Hispanic people living there, so I was like, this is nice. I got to meet some other kids around the neighborhood, which helped a lot, but you’re new to a place and you still think that everyone speaks English. I was like, well how am I going to communicate? I remember sticking to staying inside the room and I would not come out I would just cry; I would go to sleep crying. My mom was like, well what’s wrong? and I was like, well what if they don’t understand? And she was like, well they speak Spanish too you know, and I was like, no they don’t, it’s America: they don’t speak Spanish. In the neighborhood, it got better as soon as I started noticing that they knew Spanish, I knew I could do this. It got better then and I made some friends and started playing soccer around the neighborhood, so that helped a lot. In terms of school, it was hard as well. I remember going to my first day of school and coming back home crying. I was like, I don’t want to go there. Even though some of the students in my class were in the same neighborhood it was not the same. I was like, they speak Spanish here, but they don’t in school. Why are they doing that? My mom told me that I was going to learn. It was hard for my mom as well because she was the one staying at home most of the time since my dad worked a lot. I remember her crying with me saying, I’m sorry but this is our new life. You have to get used to it. In school my friends told me, don’t worry, we’ll try to help you out. I remember doing a lot of Rosetta Stone. I’m not sure what kinds of programs I was enrolled in, but I remember doing a lot of Rosetta Stone. I would go into a class and they would tell me, all right, you’re going to do Rosetta Stone, and I said okay. They would take me into a separate group: it was the group, I guess, of students who were just learning English. Like I said, it was really difficult when I was there, but soon you get used to it. Yes, it is difficult, but after a year of not going back to Mexico or anything – we stayed here for three years without going to Mexico. After the first year I was like: I need to get used to this. The second year I was like, when are we going to Mexico? And my parents asked me, do you know English? And I was like, well I’m trying. It was until the third year that they told me that we could go back to Mexico. I think that they did it so that I wouldn’t suffer so much from going back to Mexico and seeing my family again, then coming back and reliving the whole situation again. I guess that’s why they did it. In school, a few teachers knew Spanish and one of the teachers that knew Spanish – he’s my coworker now – those moments when he pulled me out of the class to talk to me and play some games, those were special moments. I was like, oh this is awesome! I get to speak Spanish for ten minutes, this

is great! And the rest of the day I was like, okay I guess I’m doing things right or I guess I’m doing things wrong. I’m not sure because I didn’t know English, but that was the difficult part about it.

[12:48] E: Aside from the language barrier, were you treated differently because you were Hispanic in the school system, or was it a pretty friendly environment?

[13:03] J: Treated differently? I don’t think we were treated differently with the exception that my parents got a lot of help from the school. My mom up to date keeps telling me, well when you were little this person used to do this for us, they used to help us set up appointments for this, they used to call us for notifications. So in terms of that, I guess you could call it different because I don’t think a specific person would do it for someone else, but I don’t consider that being a negative thing. I think it’s a positive thing welcoming someone into the school system, making them feel welcome. In terms of myself, I don’t think I was treated negatively or different. I think it was a positive. Of course, I didn’t know any English so I guess their best idea was to use Rosetta Stone and place me with a group of students that were also learning English. Which made sense because if you’re all learning English might as well use the same resource instead of having different resources for everybody. Some people might consider that negative, oh well they separated you from the rest of the class, but to me it was great. I mean, if I didn’t have that one on one time with teachers or having a teacher for six or seven students of us, I don’t know if I would have learned English as quickly as I did. But having that small class with one teacher helped a lot because if I didn’t know something I would ask a teacher and the teacher didn’t know any Spanish and teacher would tell me, I don’t understand, and then ask other students to translate for me and I would ask them to tell the teacher that this was going on and that’s how we communicated. So sometimes another friend who knew a little bit more English than I did translated for us and sometimes the teacher was like, can you tell him to do this, or not do this, when I was misbehaving and that’s how I learned. I was like okay I shouldn’t do this because my friend told me this or my teacher told my friend not to do this and that’s how I just started to learn and pick up a little bit of English. But no I don’t feel like I was treated negatively.

[15:18] E: Did either of your parents speak English at this point? Did your father speak English a little bit?

[15:23] J: No, my dad at that point I think my dad had been, like I said, a migrant worker for ten to twenty years now – no I don’t think… No, up to date he doesn’t know any English. Up to date, my mom doesn’t know any English. And I asked them why, how come you haven’t learned any? Especially my dad. I mean I was young when I was asking those questions. He said, For two reasons: One, when I came, I came to work. I wasn’t coming to live here in the US, that was not my plan. My plan was to come, make enough money, start a business. Second reason is when I did bring the whole family to the US, my objective was the same thing. Work, make enough money so that you guys can have a good education. I never put myself first before the family. So it was all about the family, all about the children. And my mom is the same thing, I don’t care if I have to work twenty, forty, fifty, sixty hours a week, as long as you and your sister have what you need. I don’t care if I don’t know the language, I don’t care if I get discriminated in the community or anything like that, but as long as you two are set, that’s what matters. And I think they both put that in front instead of learning English. They put the priority of my sister and

myself on top and then English was one of the last priorities, we have them two, we have bills, we have to pay for the cars, we got a lot of stuff going on, and English is the last thing on their mind and it is still the last thing on their mind up to date. But no, up to date, they don’t know any English.

[17:08] E: So was there a point in school where you started to feel more comfortable with English that you could speak it without any issues?

[17:04] J: So I arrived in third grade, in the middle of third grade – that was hard because of all the language barriers. In fourth grade, I think I had a math class, I believe it was math class, in the regular class and that’s when one of the teachers used to give – like if you did something good – she would have a little chart with like a gumball machine. So if you did something right or answer a question right she would give you a little drawing of a gumball and you would put it on the machine. And then when the machine got full, the whole class got a reward. So all my friends were like, you need to say something in English so you can get a little gumball. And that’s when I remember saying my first English words by myself, they were like, come on you can do it, you can do it. So one morning I was like, good morning, and I said her name – I can’t remember her name now it’s been a long time. But I said good morning and she was like, wow! Congratulations! So she gave me one and I was like, I must have said it right. After that I would say one or two words like bye, hello, or have a good day; something like that, and that’s what motivated me. Then in fifth grade, I started to talk a little bit more and more. I still had tons of difficulties in fifth grade, but I feel that it was in middle school when I started to come out more in terms of speaking. It started mostly in sixth grade and went on. Each year you feel a little bit better, feel a little bit better. There’s always words that come to me easier in Spanish. Up to date, there’s a lot of words that I would say in Spanish rather than English, but each year you just keep improving on what you feel that you need to improve. But yeah, it was hard.

[19:19] E: Moving on into high school, did you have a favorite subject that you were studying?

Was school something you liked a lot or just something you went to?

[19:30] J: So high school was an interesting point – I think it’s an interesting point for everybody. A lot of my friends I think seemed – well first of all, I was really interested in math. So ever since Mexico, math has been one of the things I am interested in like, math, math, math, math. In high school there’s a lot of things going on. I joined the soccer team and I was like, my thing is to play soccer, that’s all. I wasn’t really thinking about school or anything. My first year I was like okay I’m just coming to school, doing my thing, getting my grades, that’s it. sophomore year was the same thing: I was just going to school to go to school. It wasn’t until my junior year when a chemistry teacher was like, well you’ve got really good grades. You’ve got A’s and B’s. And I was like, yeah. And I was falling asleep in that class, in chemistry, I was falling asleep. And she was like, well you keep getting good grades and you’re falling asleep, and I’m like, yeah, I mean, this is pretty easy. That’s when she was like, well you probably need to take AP classes. Have you talked to your counselor? And I was like, no, and she was like, well, have you thought about college? I was like, college? College for me? Yeah right, my parents can’t afford college. And she was like, well there are a lot of ways, and I was like, yeah. I played it off. So at the end of my junior year, I went to my counselor and he was like, a few of your teachers have been saying that you’ve been doing really well. How about we give you some

AP classes for senior year? And I was like, okay, sure. I mean you guys are the experts. I don’t know. I’m just here to graduate so I can go to work. And they were like, okay sounds good. So they gave me a couple of AP classes for the first semester and then I passed them. Only with a B or a C+ or something like that, but they were more difficult so I was happy. I was like, I passed, so that’s all that matters to me. So that’s when, in the middle of my senior year, they were like, okay we need to apply for college. And I was like, I told you guys I’m not going to college, and they were like, oh no, you’re going to college. And they made sure that my parents knew about it too. They were like, okay so we already called your parents, and your parents are informed. There was a college night where one night you went into the high school and they explained how college worked, how to pay for college. My dad came out of the meeting and he was like, that’s it. You’re going to college. I was like, I don’t have money for college, and he was like, me neither, but you’re going to college. So I was like, okay. I’ll just go to Blue Ridge [Community College]. All of my friends were like, yeah we’re going to Blue Ridge. And I was like, okay, Blue Ridge is an option I guess. At that time, I didn’t know where Blue Ridge was. A few of the teachers were like, you have good grades. Not to put Blue Ridge down or anything because I think it’s a great option for people, but my teachers were like, how about you apply for a four-year college? That way you can get a bigger scholarship. I was like, I don’t know if I can pay for that. They were like, don’t worry we’ll help you out. Then one teacher was like, here – he gave me the websites and packages – apply for EMU [Eastern Mennonite University], Bridgewater, and JMU [James Madison University]. I was like, okay this is scary. My dad was like, well I can’t help you. I was like, mom can you help – nope. Nobody could help me. I was on my own. I was filling out those college applications. I went to JMU – I went with like my dad driving around and then I actually went into a class and it was like huge. And I was like, I’m definitely not going to JMU. I was like, it’s between Blue Ridge and Bridgewater and EMU. In the back of my mind I was like, Blue Ridge, Blue Ridge, Blue Ridge. Just because of the whole financial issue and then I didn’t know if I had good enough grades and then we started talking about GPAs and stuff like that. I was like, I’m not good enough for a four-year college. I soon told the teachers, alright here, can you check my applications. They were like, no they look good. Send them in. I sent them in and then I got them back and they were like, you’ve been accepted to EMU and Bridgewater and here’s your financial aid package. So I told my parents, I was like, well here it is. You told me to apply here it is, it’s tons of money don’t you think? And they were like, yeah, yeah it is a lot of money. I was like, told you. And then that’s when they decided to make a deal with me. They were like, if you go to college, we’ll pay for half of your semester and then you’ll pay for half of the semester. And I was like, I don’t know about that. I was still thinking about Blue Ridge. And they were like, but you gotta go to a four-year college. I was like, okay. And at that time I was thinking – by that time, at the end, by the time you make the decision I was like, okay I should definitely go to college. I saw both packages and I was thinking of doing something like the role that I’m doing right now in my current positon or teaching. I saw myself helping students that went through a similar situation that I went through. I was like, I wanna do that. And I saw that both programs had education programs, both had like kinda social work programs and I was like, I guess that there’s no difference. I was like, there’s probably no difference in which school I went to. Even though I really wanted to go to EMU, it was a lot more expensive so that made my decision a lot easier to go to Bridgewater College. I was like, oh I’ll go to Bridgewater. It’s great financial package and they say it’s great. And at that time there were people from Bridgewater that were like, yeah we’re really diverse you should really come out and look at it. And I was like, well I don’t have time to go and look at it. I

don’t even know where Bridgewater college is. So I sent in, I was like, okay here’s my deposit, I’m going to Bridgewater. Without even knowing the school. So that’s how I went to Bridgewater. But to just back up a little bit, my junior year, I did drop out of college [possibly meant to say high school] because as any teenager you wanted a car and everything. So I was like, well I want a car, I want gas, I want all this. So I started working. So by my senior year, when my dad made the deal he knew that I was working. He was like, well you’re working, you can work, pay half the tuition and then I’ll work and we’ll pay the other half. So that’s why I was like, okay. I was like how hard can college be [laughing]? I was like how hard can college be? I knew it was gonna be hard. I was like, I know I’m going in like not knowing anything, but I figured it would be a lot like high school. Middle school, I didn’t know what middle school was I didn’t know what high school was. Maybe college is kinda similar to high school; it’s just all AP classes. I was like, just think of AP classes, it’s gonna be like all AP classes: really hard. As long as you put enough attention you can still work. I was like, okay. So that’s how I made my decision and that’s how my dad has been helping me. I mean they were like, we’ll pay for half, and I mean thanks to them I was able to go to college.

[26:31] E: Did you enjoy being at Bridgewater after you had been there?

[26:35] J: Ah no. [Laughing] No, it was rough man, it was rough. Being the first generation in college you have a lot of pressure. I remember my mom and dad they were really proud. They were like, oh yeah you’re in college. You’re the first one in the family! Of course I had like other cousins who are in Michigan and California who actually went to college, but my family is just my mom and my dad and my sister and I. They were like, yeah you’re going to college! Great, you’re setting a great example for your younger sister. I was like, good. But it was hard. My first semester I wanted to drop out. I think after a month and a half I was like, this is not for me. I was like, I definitely should not be wasting all this money, all this tons of money that my parents are putting into my education and I’m putting all this money. I would rather just be working a full-time job getting as much money as I’m spending and saving it. I was like, this is hard. So my first time my parents talking to me they were like, well you just need to take four classes and do four classes instead of having five classes. And I was living at home to save up money because I couldn’t afford for the whole board and room and stuff like that. I couldn’t so I was living at home. They were like, well if you need to live in Bridgewater we’ll help you pay for that that way you can feel more part of the community. And I was like, no that’s like ten thousand dollars. Don’t put all that money in there. So I stuck through it, but there were a few times where I just like, I need to drop out. One time my dad talked me into it. They were like, no you gotta stay. A few other times, a couple friends were like, no just keep going. It’s gonna be hard. And even now professors from the Spanish department they were really helpful, they were like – and from the social work department as well – they were really helpful with that situation. They were like, well you need to stay, you’re doing good. I mean, I had good grades. I had average grades: B’s, C’s. But they were like, you gotta stick through it. And they understood my situation. I was like, well I don’t if I’m doing everything correctly and they were like, it’s not about if you’re doing it correctly. It’s about you experimenting and getting to know what college is and taking something away from college that could help you in the future. And I was like, yeah that is true. So the first two years I hated it. I wanted to drop out. My junior year, that’s when I kinda started to enjoy it a little bit more. I was like, okay this is not as bad. Two years already on the back. My junior year I was like, I’m set I’m good. There were a few times I was like, I wanna drop out. But for the

most part, I enjoyed it. My senior year I think it was… it was hard, it was hard my senior year just because you have the pressure of being a senior, getting a job, especially from my parents. You just graduated, you have a job already? I’m like, no not yet. But I enjoyed it for the most part. If you told me if I wanted to do the whole thing again I would say no. I would say I did it, I’m done with it, great. As of right now, maybe I’ll go back and get a masters or do a couple more classes to get some other kind of certification, but if you tell me you wanna do the four years again, no thank you. I did that, I’m glad I got through it thanks to the help of teachers, friends, and family I got through it, but I don’t wanna go through it again.

[Part Two]

[30:18] E: And so you majored in social work and Spanish?

[30:20] J: I actually majored – no, Bridgewater doesn’t have a social work major. I majored in Spanish because, like I said, I wanted to help people that were in similar situations. So I was like, maybe I’ll become a teacher. Maybe I wanna do a Spanish teacher and up to date I still have that thought in mind. Maybe I need to go back and be a teacher – a Spanish teacher. Maybe I’ll do it, maybe I won’t, I don’t know, I’m not sure what the future holds, but that’s one thing that I have in mind, like one possibility. So I majored in Spanish and I double minored in social work because that’s the other big passion of mine: social work. The professors, and I love the whole department of social work at Bridgewater. That’s one of the great thing about Bridgewater, the two things, Spanish department and social work, I was like, that’s what kept me in there and not make me drop out. And my second minor is culture studies. Culture studies just kind of grab into the whole Spanish mixing social work. I was like, you know what? This is awesome. And my plans after college I was like, with this I can pretty much try to do a social work kind of job and like I said that’s my passion, that is, helping others. It might not be tons of money, but to me that’s not it. To me, it’s helping families that went through a similar situation that I went through so I can make it easier for them and not have to feel the difficulties that I kind of felt when I was young. But that is what I studied in college.

[32:03] E: So I know you worked with Alicia Horst of the New Bridges Immigrant Center. When was that? Was that a little bit after you graduated from Bridgewater?

[32:11] J: No, that is actually – so in Bridgewater, like many other universities like JMU, EMU, you do internships. So that was one of the internships. I think I received that internship for social work. So one of the social work requirements to get your minor was you had to do a certain amount of hours. So that’s when I talked to Alicia and they accepted me for a semester. I was like, this is good. I mean, I got to learn tons from that program, from that non-profit organization New Bridges, it was great. So I stayed there for the semester. And then I went to the Spanish department and I was like, well you know what? I love it here so much at New Bridges, what can I do to stay another semester with them? And they were like, well you can do an internship for us. So you did an internship for social work, now you can do an internship for Spanish. So I was like, okay. Since in New Bridges, you use Spanish a lot with people that you work with. So that’s how I stayed for a whole year. Of course, there were weeks where I would go six hours, there were weeks where I could only go for four hours. It varied, but they were happy to have me there and I was happy to help them out with whatever I could. I didn’t have tons of experience, I was

just a college student, but it helped me a lot. It helped me a lot how to talk to people, how to relate to them, and it showed me that there are still people in our community that still need the help that my parents once received and that I once received. That kind of pushed me forward. That’s when I was like, I’m definitely going into social work. That helped me a lot. I was like, I need to go into social work. Unfortunately, I was only there for a whole year. My senior year, I think, I wasn’t able to do it just because of all the other stuff that I had going on, but it was great. It was a great time.

[34:14] E: What was like a normal week there? What were the kinds of things that you were doing for the center?

[34:21] J: Well it was a little bit of everything. I didn’t have any specific things. So they have an

immigration center in there, which Alicia runs. I couldn’t do any immigration situations: I didn’t have the experience, the license, or anything like that, but I did everything that they told me to like answer phone calls, make phone calls, do research. Sometimes families would come in and were like, where can I apply for a job? So I would start doing research, let’s find the local jobs that are currently hiring. Where can I find an apartment? I’m like, well let’s do some research. They showed me how to fill out financial aid documents, I was doing a little bit of interpreting – not so much, but since a lot of them spoke Spanish there was no need for interpreting, but a lot of translating. So they were like, can you translate this birth certificate that was in Spanish to English? I was like, okay I will translate it. Can you translate this? Sure, why not. I helped a couple of fundraiser events finding sponsors for an event as well. So it was just a little bit of everything. You just don’t know what you’re coming into. You come in, you might for four hours, it could go really quickly because you’ve got a line of people or it might be like, well we only have two people. But you just didn’t know what because as soon as you’re done with the one person, the other person might be completely opposite from what you were doing. Which was interesting because you get to learn a little bit of everything and it’s interesting learning all the resources that are in the community.

[36:08] E: After you graduated from Bridgewater, did you get involved with the Harrisonburg public school system pretty immediately afterwards?

[36:17] J: Yes. So, in Bridgewater College I did another internship, so I was doing a lot of internships. I did an internship with the home school liaisons here in Harrisonburg in Harrisonburg High School. I only did it for a semester: that was all I could do at that time. And I loved it. I knew what the job was kind of about just from people in the community and from other home school liaisons that I knew and I had talked to. I was like, well what is your job about? And they were telling me. So that made me get an internship at Harrisonburg High School with their home school liaisons. I was there for the semester. I liked it and I kinda wanted one. I was like, maybe I wanna do that job. But home school liaisons, you only need one per school or unless the school is so big then they start adding more. So positions are limited. So in my senior year, my last semester, I started to apply at different places. I applied at the correctional center, the juvenile correctional center and I got interviewed, but they never called me so I guess I wasn’t good enough [laughing]. I was like, okay. I don’t know if I’d be happier or not, but I guess I’m happy because I got the job that I am right now. So they didn’t call me for that one and I applied for like two other jobs and I had interviews but nothing came through. I

also applied for the welcome center here at Harrisonburg city schools and I got the interview and they hired me and a week after I graduated, I started working with Harrisonburg city schools in the welcome center. So I was there for the whole first year, and then, this school year, here at Keister [Elementary School] as a home school liaison. So I’ve been in total two years. This is my second year with Harrisonburg city schools.

[38:15] E: So what do you do here as a home school liaison? What’s your typical work week?

[38:21] J: Once again it’s a little bit of everything, yeah. You’re translating, you’re interpreting, you’re making phone calls to parents, parents are calling you. You’re pretty much like a… like a bridge. You’re a bridge between the school and home. You’re a bridge between parents, administration, and teachers. If someone sends something home in English, parents might call me, hey they sent me this letter and I don’t understand it, can you tell me what it is? But we tend to send everything Spanish and English. Or sometimes they’re like, hey can you tell the teacher that such thing happened in school, is this true or not? And then that’s when I go to the teachers and email and say, hey so so-and-so called me, so-and-so said something happened, is this true? What is your story? Or vice versa. The teacher might say, can you call the parents and say that their student is doing good, or tell them that this happened today, something happened in recess. Or sometimes they just send me translations. Can you translate this to send home? Because we try to send everything in English and Spanish, at least, home, and Arabic and Russian. I don’t know Arabic or Russian [laughing], so someone else takes that, but I’m in charge of all the Spanish ones here at Keister. I’m also in charge of several other events. Not in charge, but to collaborate with administration. So our administration does, for example, Hispanic Family Night. So our administration is like, okay we’re gonna work on this. So I work along with them. Try to recruit people, try to call parents say, hey we’re having this event, come out. If there’s after school events, then I’m there just in case a person comes in and says, hey what’s going on? I can explain it to them. Sometimes when it’s a big event and we know that a lot of parents are coming, I act as an interpreter. So I have an interpreter set, like with your headphones and everything. So as parents are coming in you’re like, do you want an interpreter? A Spanish interpreter, yes or no? And they’re like, yes. You give them a headset, then once the event starts, you’re just interpreting the whole event. It’s a lot of things. There’s a lot of things that come in, so to say, I do this specifically every day – no. My day varies, just like in New Bridges. I might be really busy one day doing a lot of translations, but the next day I might be working on an event with my administration, or I might be doing something else with a teacher or student. It’s awesome, it’s a lot of work, but I enjoy it.

[41:09] E: And so kinda backtracking a little bit, back to when you were growing up here in Harrisonburg, were you involved with any sort of religious community here in Harrisonburg when you were growing up? You and your family?

[41:19] J: Well, yes. Traditionally, Hispanic community is very catholic, [inaudible], especially in Mexico, so my dad and my mom were very catholic. So we went to the local catholic church. I didn’t enjoy it [laughing], I mean like most nine-year olds I was like, what do you gotta go to church for? But yeah, they were really involved in the – I wouldn’t say very, very involved, but they were part of the catholic church. They went every Sunday just like any other person would go to church and they made me go. But after that, I don’t know if my mom or dad ever did

something else. I don’t remember doing anything specific with the church. I know my parents made us go. They were like, you gotta go on Sunday. I was like, okay. I mean I had no option: I was young, so they made me go.

[42:13] E: So I know when you first moved here, you were in that two-bedroom trailer. Did that change as you were growing up? Did you move around at all? Or were you mostly just in that same area?

[42:23] J: No, that did change. So when my dad arrived, he bought the trailer, we stayed there for three years. So like I was telling you, my parents were working long hours. My dad had a plan. He was like, I’m gonna work, I’m gonna get some good education for my children, and I’m gonna find a bigger place. Up to date, I was like, why? And he was like, well trailers were cheap. They’re cheap. I mean, not so cheap but affordable. The parking space is affordable, the situation that your mom and I were – it just made sense. It made a lot more sense than getting an apartment. So we were there for three years. In 2006, I still remember in 2006, my dad bought the current home where we are right now. So he actually bought a home here in Harrisonburg. And he was like, okay this is what I came here for. I came here to bring you guys, to work, to buy a home. That’s his American dream. And so he bought his home – he’s still paying it, I mean, we say buy but he’s still paying it. And that’s where we moved, to that house, and we’ve been there ever since. Unless they plan to sell it sometime soon, but I don’t know. Yeah so I’ve been there since ’06. It’s been quite a while now.

[43:42] E: And so has the area changed at all? Just Harrisonburg in general, has that changed at all since you first moved here, so over the course of fifteen years or so?

[43:51] J: I think it has changed a lot. A lot more business is coming in. In terms of people, I feel a lot more diversity has been happening. Not that back then there was not, but I feel like when I arrived there was less diversity. You can tell. There was less places where they knew Spanish, where they had Spanish speakers. Now, at least, you go somewhere, to a store, I’m pretty sure you can find a worker that knows Spanish in the store. Not a lot, but you can find someone or someone that speaks another language. I’m pretty sure that if you go to a doctor, there will be interpreters, so I have seen the community grow and be more diverse in the last couple years. And I feel that it’s gonna become more diverse as more cultures come in, and we’re gonna need more interpreters as well. We’re gonna need a lot more interpreters, translators that are gonna be able to help us. Of course, there’s those that speak Spanish, but what about the other ones that know Swahili, Tigrinya, Russian are a little bit more difficult to find. What about those families? So we’re gonna need a lot more people that can help the community in those kinds of languages. But yes, it has become a lot more diverse, a lot bigger, and I’m just grateful to see this change and I’m really excited to see what Harrisonburg becomes in the future.

[45:21] E: And then looking towards the future, do you plan on staying in Harrisonburg for a long time or do you have any plans on leaving the area?

[45:29] J: That is questionable, yeah. In college, like I said, I wasn’t getting any calls back to get a job so I was really planning on moving to California. Just because I have family over there. I have a few uncles that live over there. I was like, maybe I gotta over there. That’s like social

work, that’s like where else could you go and be like a social worker. I was like, maybe over there. But I got the job here so I stayed put. Right now, I am really happy with my job. I’m enjoying it, so for the short term no. I plan to stay here in the area. Of course, I don’t know. Maybe in the long run I might move. But I don’t have any plans of it right now. I really love how diverse this area is and that is one of the things that has made me stay here in Harrisonburg and not try to go somewhere else.

[46:30] E: How much younger is your sister than you?

[46:34] J: She is… what is she? So I’m twenty-four almost twenty-five, she… nineteen. I would say nineteen. She is currently at EMU. She is studying to be an RN nurse. She has one more year and then to work or to get her masters, I don’t know what her plan is. Her story is a lot different than mine just because I came a lot older. She was probably like three, so she was able to [laughing] assimilate a lot better than I did into the whole education program, which has helped her a lot especially in her education career. I’m proud of her, but her story is a lot different than mine. Up to date, I feel that I don’t belong to here, to the US, but I also don’t belong to Mexico. Half my life has been in Mexico, a lot of memories have been from Mexico, but a lot of my recent memories are also from the US. To me I feel that I’m split in between. I’m not from here, I’m not from there, I’m right in between. I don’t know how to describe it, which can be hard and easy at the same time, but in comparing that to my sister, if I tell my sister she feels more American even though she was born in Mexico. So that’s interesting, yeah.

[48:07] E: So what are your thoughts on kinda on the national stage? Some of the rhetoric and some of the policies that are being taken away or put into place, depending on what they are specifically around DACA or stuff like that, what are your thoughts on that?

[48:22] J: I’m really sad. Yeah, it’s a sad time for our community. Not just for the Hispanic community, for all diversities here in the US. It’s a sad moment. I don’t agree. I don’t agree with a lot of the things that is going on in the media. I have tons of friends who benefit from DACA, tons of friends. So it’s sad. It’s sad seeing them suffer, it’s sad hearing the stories that say, hey I might be here today, but maybe tomorrow I’m not or I might get split up from my parents. I have friends who were born here, who are under DACA – no, friends that were born in Mexico, but were brought to the US at a very young age, one years, two years. So they don’t really know Mexico. I consider myself lucky, I know Mexico so if I ever go back, I know how everything works, but they don’t. They were actually raised here even though they weren’t born here so I feel sad. I feel really sad. I don’t think Harrisonburg compares to that. I think Harrisonburg is a lot more open to diversity than some parts of the US. And I think the majority of the US is also very open to diversity. I think there’s very few closeminded people in the US in general. Unfortunately, they have their way of thinking and I can’t really do anything about it. I hope I could change it, but I can’t. The only thing we can do is continue to support our diversity here in Harrisonburg and in the US. And like I said, I’m pretty sure the majority of the US is very open to diversity.

[50:16] E: Just lastly, what would you like students, or just anyone who might come along these archives, what would you like them to take away from your story as it relates to immigration as a whole or immigration to Harrisonburg?

[50:30] J: Each story’s different. Take into perspective the story of everybody. Each immigrant, it’s different. I consider myself lucky because I didn’t have to cross the border undocumented, or as some people would say, illegally. I consider myself lucky. There are tons of people in this community that are not as lucky as I am. And I would say before you judge someone, you really got to know their story first before you can even comment on it. Each one is different. I would say accept diversity because we all bring something to the table. And if you accept it, and as long as you’re in a community that accepts it, that community will prosper. It will be a lot of great things coming out of that community. So I would just say in terms of immigration, I can’t really tell you believe this, believe that, but I can say listen. Listen to the stories and try to reflect and be in their shoes. Put yourself in their shoes and try to see if you would do the same thing or not. But I’m pretty sure a lot of the people would understand why families are immigrating to the US once they hear individual stories.

Nelly : 00:02 My name is Nelly Moreno Shenk. And my age is 53 years old, I am 53 years old and I immigrated here originally from El Salvador.

Georgia :  00:36 Ok, and can you tell me where your family comes from and what country they’re from?

Nelly :  00:44  My family, my immediate family is my husband and my two children. I met my husband in El Salvador where my country of origin and my two children were raised in El Salvador, we moved in 2002. So my husband is a United States citizen. So I mean he was born here in the United States. That’s my immediate family. My family, my father still lives in El Salvador and I have two sisters living there too. My mom passed away, my brother also passed away a few years ago.

Georgia :   01:31 And you said you have three children?

Nelly:  01:31 I have two children.

Georgia:  01:31  Two children, okay. How old are they?

Nelly: 01:31  Yeah, Daniel, the oldest, is 25. He’s going to be 26 this year in July. And my youngest, Sarah, is 21.

Georgia :  01:55 Okay. So how many years ago did you move to the United States?

Nelly :  01:59 I moved in 2002, that means 15 years ago that I moved from El Salvador.

Georgia : 02:09  And you met your husband here or before you moved?

Nelly :  02:17  I met my husband in El Salvador in 1989 when he was working for the Mennonite Central Committee as a missionary, a commissioner and I was working there with a non profit organization. We were 26 years old when we met.

Georgia:  02:17  Oh wow. What nonprofit were you working for?

Nelly:  02:43  I was working with a non-profit organization working for a development program in the countryside. That organization doesn’t exist anymore. It was called National Workers Federation. It was for the communities that were working for refugees that were from Honduras because we have a civil war in the eighties, I don’t know if you’re familiar with that. In El Salvador, so I’ve worked with this organization to protect these people coming back to El Salvador from Honduras.

Georgia : 03:37  Okay, and can you tell me a little bit about your childhood in El Salvador and your education?

Nelly :  03:50 I come from a low-income family. My dad and my mom, they were, they were a labor, you know, my mom raised us at home, my father worked outside of Chile where he didn’t have a job when my does something, you know. I had my childhood, even if it was with some limitations on income, I have a good relationship with my brothers, sisters, my father and my mom. So I would say that despite the poverty level that we had, we loved each other and and I don’t have any trauma, you know. So, we supported each other because my mom couldn’t afford us education after high school. My brother who worked first, he helped all my siblings, myself and my sister to get beyond the high school education. The first two years, so he paid for my first two years of college and then I had to tell myself, Nelly you need to start working and pay on your own. And he did that for everyone, the same with Sonia and Cecilia, my sisters. So my three sisters, and Rolando, that’s my brothers name, we got an education, we finished college before that and after my college I worked for this non-profit organization, I met Harold, I got married, I had my two children and when Sarah was four years old I got my master’s in Business Administration. So that was my nuclear family, my mom and dad. So that was my education, and after working with the local NGO, the non-profit organization I worked with the Mennonite Central Committee with Harold and then with the Catholic World Services. So I got experience with international non-profit organization working in El Salvador.

Georgia :  06:33  Okay, and where did you go to college?

Nelly:  06:35  I went to the, it’s the, José Simeón Cañas (Central American University). That’s the name of it, it’s UCA it’s a well-known university in El Salvador. That was administered by the jesuits. (writing word). This is ordered from Spain. Yeah. So the university was administered by these.

Georgia:  07:24  I’m not sure how to say that either.  

Nelly:  07:24  Oh, jesuits.

Nelly:  07:42 So that was my education, I did there, at the same university, my bachelor’s in Economics degree. Then three years later, four years later, my masters.

Georgia:  07:48  Oh okay. Did you enjoy college?

Nelly: 07:53 I do. I love to read and because I was working, I was working during the day and studied in the evening, my goal was I got six years, you know, to study and ideally have a full, you know, credit getting your bachelors.

Georgia :  07:53  Okay, so you had six years for your bachelors?

Nelly :  08:23  Just for my bachelors because I was working and then studying for a few credits in the evening. But the masters took less time, it was just three and a half years. So I do, I do love to study. I would love to have that chance here, but its too expensive.

Georgia:  08:40  Yeah, okay. So did you grow up with a religion? Like were your parents religious or are you currently religious?

Nelly: 08:53 My mom and my dad, yes. I was raised in the Catholic religion, and I couldn’t say that I was too religious, but as a teenager, I used to go to the church, you know, and be part of all the traditions as a Catholic. At home it’s about eighty percent of the population are Catholic. So, you know, it’s everything, everything, Easter and my grandma going to those processions. Now here in the United States, my husband is from the mennonite background so we agreed that we were going to attend in this country, the Mennonite church, and in El Salvador the Catholic church.

Georgia: 08:53  Right, so we’re your kids raised…

Nelly:  10:00  (laughing) thats a good question, you’ll have to ask them. But they were raised as Catholic in El Salvador and they, you know, they baptized, they are baptized as a Catholic. But moving here, we were thinking that I would go to the Catholic and then go to the community Mennonite church. That was a little confusing, so I’m just going to the Mennonite church and I cannot say that I am Mennonite, but I do respect all their beliefs and I shared their values too. So I feel comfortable going to the community Mennonite and I still sometimes go to the Catholic Church because I love to see my people too.

Georgia :  10:40 Do your kids live in, well do they live in the United States too?

Nelly :  10:48  Daniel is living in Boston and he moved two, three years ago. He’s going to get married soon. And my daughter, Sarah is doing a practical in DC, Washington DC working for a non profit organization. She’s studying social work at EMU and she’s going to graduate in May.

Georgia :  11:18  Wow, okay. Do you think she was influenced from your line of work to go into social work?

Nelly : 11:26 Oh yeah, oh yeah, I think so. My husband and I are pretty active in the community, so she wasn’t born. She also came here to do some intern at Skyline Literacy, my work, and she’s doing something similar. Yeah I would think so that she has been influenced, both. Daniels in business because he loves traveling. He helps groups going to Spain or Europe for tournaments. He’s a travel agent, but the focus is to get groups and do tournaments. So he’s in a different field, but I feel myself sometimes that I am a business woman too. Working with students, clients, doing some marketing.

Georgia: 12:22 Yeah, and what does your husband do?

Nelly : 12:28 He’s a client counselor for the Community Services Board. He worked with youth that have a problem and are referred by the court. They need an intensive plan, you know, to get out of trouble and it’s intensive home care or something like that.

Georgia : 12:53  Okay, and you said that you guys came to the United States in 2002?

Nelly: 12:53  2002, yes.

Georgia: 13:00 Okay, so how was that experience? How was the immigration process and trying to assimilate into the American culture and ..

Nelly :  13:13 I think that my first experience here in United States comes from, not only from when I moved here, it comes from when I got married to Harold. You know, because we have to assimilate our different way how to raise children, provide education, figure out our finances, you know. And I think that we have the privilege to come every year for vacation before I moved thirteen years later when I got married to him. So I didn’t have a, how you say, a cultural shock because I was blessed to be  assimulating over the years. However that was the part, I remember that the second year he brought me here, his parents lived in Pennsylvania. So we did that trip from Pennsylvania going to Atlanta, Georgia. And when I crossed this valley I said, Oh, this is a beautiful place, I can live here. And we did have that thought to move here, so, then he started at EMU, and he got a masters too. We moved because the reason that he needed to finish his masters. He was doing something in El Salvador but then in the last year or so he supposedly was going to learn the language and then move back but, we stayed. So the most difficult part was that, the language that was my, we would meet no new people because we have friends, American friends, we have a Catholic connection with the, some friends here who are Hispanic. So I think that the barrier, the language barrier was the main thing that put me in some depression sometimes the first six months and missing my parents too. I missed my parents a lot and I wanted to just to go back. But after five years, maybe, being here in Harrisonburg, I feel that this, this is my home.

Georgia : 15:53 Yeah. OK. So did you work somewhere else before Harrisonburg?

Nelly: 15:53  No.

Georgia :  15:58  So this is the first place that you worked when you came to the United States?

Nelly: 16:06   Yeah, yeah. My whole life with my parents, then at twenty-six I moved from home and living in the same neighborhood, and then here.

Georgia : 16:10  Right. Do you go back to El Salvador often?

Nelly: 16:15  Yeah, I travel every year.

Georgia : 16:15 Every year, just once a year?

Nelly:  16:15  Once a year.

Georgia : 16:21 Okay, and you just go see your family and..  

Nelly : 16:31 Yeah. See my dad and my sisters, I’m trying to go on April 11th, that’s our next trip.

Georgia :  16:37  Exciting, so you’ve lived here in Harrisonburg for awhile. Have you seen the town change over the years?

Nelly : 16:53  Oh yeah, a lot a lot. First, you know, the housing developments as maybe a reflection of the deep community that has been, you know, thats certainly now key in this town. So, I see more immigrants and I know that when I came I think that they were 5,000, and then I think 6,000. I mean now there are more than 15,000 just in this community. That is the experience of change that they have seen and I think that the response from the community is very open, welcoming, I think that there’s no doubt about that. Maybe changes the more expression, how to be welcoming to the people. I mean that’s something that more resources maybe but the resources go sometimes this is more or is changing according to what is in the local policies. For example, for example, for the first few years people can go for medical care to the health department then, you know, free clinic. At one point free clinic wasn’t able to support, wasn’t able to provide services to people that didn’t have documents. And now in response to that, the community center, the health community center was created. So that’s the kind of change that I see, so population, health development, some response to how we help the community, the movements.

Georgia:  18:57 Right. So you work for Skyline Literacy, how did you end up working for that organization?

Nelly: 19:19  That’s a good question. I have almost 10 years working for Skyline. The executive director that hired me here, I have had previous experience working with her when I came to this country working for AHEC, area health education center. She hired me at that time to coordinate a program for health promoted problems, it’s like (inaudible). It formulates, you know, learning how to help prevention, health promotion and learning about diabetes, how to take blood pressure or how to get involved in the community, etcetera, etcetera. So I worked with them for four years, then I moved out from this work and then later on Skyline needed a program manager, a program coordinator, and Beth knew my job and she hired me here. So I think that’s how I ended up working here. So the boss that I had before, she hired me here because she also moved from this job and worked for Skyline Literacy. She’s no longer here.

Georgia:  19:19  Okay, and what is it that skyline literacy does?

Nelly :  20:51  We have English classes and citizenship preparation and basically we teach students, people, native speakers who don’t read at the fifth grade level and they need to, you know, increase that reading level to achieve any goal that they have. A personal goal and get a better job, retain employment. With the citizenship we help lawful permanent residents to pass the citizenship interview. So we teach them civics, how to read and write according to what the requirement to pass that test and interview. And for English classes, basically are for people with low education level and that they don’t feel good in other settings in the other programs. Most of them are with a low education, low income, and on average they are between 35 and 45 years old.

Georgia : 22:04 OK. So working so closely with the immigrant population, can you tell me a little bit about the citizenship process. And as a whole, do they seem to..

is it achievable or does it seem like people have trouble working through that system?

Nelly : 22:27  I think that is achievable if the applicant, you know, work through the.. getting the right English level, studying for the civics questions and they are very transparent with information that they provide on the application. So why I am saying that is because we have some students that their acquisition knowledge, acquisition is very low, so they need to work harder by repetition, repetition, repetition. That is first and simple, some of our students they last two years to get, to grab that 100 questions or the language, to be able to express and to have a basic interview, you know, to say the name, contact information, history, previous history, trips, work, talking about the family. So when they come, many people say that, no, I don’t, I don’t retain information. I don’t have time or yes I do, I do want but they don’t feel confident. So that’s one thing that the program does a lot, is to provide that confidence and reassure us that everything that you put on that application is the truth. You know, don’t fool yourself because the immigrations office, yeah, they have all the information, they know what you are going to, what they put there, that they know if that’s true or not. So we have a partnership with Church World Services, which is the refugee office here and they do all the applications as well with New Bridges, which is the other organization that works with immigrants in this place. We are not doing that because we are not certified, but we’re trying to do our best to advise the people to get the right advising and the process to assure that they don’t have any problem during the whole naturalization process. So, but 90, we’ll say 99 percent of people that pass the class with us, they pass the test. But this time they are having more problems since this year.

Georgia:  22:27  Oh really?

Nelly :  25:20  So yeah, the lady that I knew that she could pass it, they can nervous or they hesitate two times with the question, with the answer in the question, they stop the interview and they say you need to take a second chance. So given that, so we are trying to be more tough with the students ,you know, because we have a mock interview. So were trying to have different scenarios, different interviewers and they apply when they are ready.

Georgia:  25:59  So do you think that they are struggling because the process has changed or…

Nelly:  26:04 We were discussing that yesterday, that we need to figure out if the process we know in the last month two ladies didn’t make it. And the English level, they can talk to you they can go answer the question. But the reason they didn’t make it, it was not strong enough to say you didn’t pass. One lady they asked, “Hey, why were you married four times?” She was married four times, maybe divorced. So she said “Is that a problem with you?” And then the interviewers got mad.  So I think that she shouldn’t say that, we know that, that there’s skills that..

Georgia:  26:55  But why, why are they concerned with how many times she was married? Is that something that’s a legitimate question to ask?

Nelly :  27:01 I don’t think so. I don’t think so. You know, there are many people that do that, you know, and her whole story’s there, very clear. So she’s an intermediate student, she passed with good results. And the second interview, she was so nervous that she didn’t go. So she needs to wait again and apply again because that’s competitive. So this is something that we are trying to evaluate and we are having an information session coming with a facilitator, but a representative from Department of Homeland Security where they want to be more. Something’s different now you know. Our feeling is they are more inquisitive or the screening is a little harder.

Georgia :  28:01 So if they don’t pass the first.. or if they stop the interview for whatever reason, like you were saying, do they have to wait a certain amount of time to come back?

Nelly:  28:12 They have a second chance to do the second interview with the same amount of money because they pay $725 for the interview, for the processing and with that money they have just two chances. If they fail one or they fail everything, they go to the second-time. If the second time they fail the same, they have to apply again to start all the process over again.

Georgia :  28:12 Oh man..

Nelly: 28:43  That has been the same. That has been the rule since I know of.

Georgia :  28:43  Okay. So you’ve sort of told me a little bit about what Skyline Literacy does and what you do, but could you tell me in a little bit more detail what your role is and your job description at Skyline Literacy?

Nelly :  28:43   My role, me?

Georgia:  28:43  Yeah!

Nelly:  29:11  Oh, my role is a product manager, I am in charge of the intake process. I also do the evaluation of the English level even though I have no background in education, but I learned how to do that, that’s easy. And I am certified as an administrator for this assessment and read and listening. Our systems, you know, booklets that already have the answer keys and everything to score and grade. The students are in classes according to their English level, I do this with my co-worker, Barbie, because she has the curriculum and she works with the volunteers, the teachers. That’s part of my role. The other thing that I do is to coordinate with our stakeholders or try to connect with the schools, with the other agencies, make referrals, organize the classes, work with all the program over the year. Yeah, I coordinate with the volunteers that were helping me with doing this. We serve around 300 people per year. So that’s just a lot of work.

Georgia : 30:53  Where do the majority.. is there like a main place that a majority of the immigrants come from?

Nelly :  31:05 The first, the first years here it was Mexico and people from Central America. The last years just seeing our studies from the citizenship program, it was maybe 50/50 from Iraq and from Latinos. So the Iraq population has been growing it, Iraq including Kurdistan. So it has been more a participant in our program. So, in general, I don’t remember how, but the Hispanic population is the largest in the community. I’d say Congo is even more now. More people are coming from Africa and some refugees from Ethiopia, Eritrea, Sudan, Congo. But we have more, for example now more African people in our class.

Georgia :  32:14 Okay, so in our class we’ve talked a lot about how just over time there have been trends of restriction of immigration and then promotion for different benefits. Just having this inside role have you seen if the country has changed having a restriction and that affecting the number of people in your classes or has it been relatively the same?

Nelly : 33:02  The restrictions affects the, probably the attendance. No, we have more students now, but that goes because the population has been growing, you know, the immigrants. But in terms of affecting the government policies, which I know that they are anti-immigrant and are affecting other levels in the community. In Harrisonburg there were three programs that were providing English classes. One program closed last year and so that’s why we have a little bit more students now. But that’s other events outside that maybe you know, like answering that question is not only because of that. So I am a co-founder for El Salvadorian committee here in this town and we are working with the temporary protected status holders through a campaign, this is my other job, a volunteer job.

Georgia :  33:02 Okay and who did you say that was with?

Nelly:  34:37  That’s the name of the organization (writing) COSPU, and it stands for comité salvador para gente unida, in English it would be El Salvadorian committee for united people, something like that. What I’m trying to say is that doing this job is that we are seeing that what is affecting the immigration policies, the families, you know, feeling that they are going to be disintegrated. This is a fear affecting the level of the children in the schools, of the concentration, you know, probably grades, the fear, the mental health of the whole family as a unit, you know. So, maybe projects or other things that they are planning they have put on hold because their future is uncertain.

Georgia: 34:37 Right, and is that for the people who have applied for DACA?

Nelly:  34:37  For DACA, yeah. And are you familiar with TPS? Temporary protected status..

Georgia: 34:37 A little bit.

Nelly: 36:11 They’re people that come from countries because they have problems with.. either because the disasters. For example, in 2000 in El Salvador there was an earthquake that made many people move here. And some people here, they didn’t have documents. They had to change to obtain that work permits under TPS status. So now they had to go back and.. I wanted to show you that we do a rally. (pulling up a picture on her phone)

Georgia:  36:33 Oh okay, right. Was that in Harrisonburg?

Nelly: 36:51 In Harrisonburg, yeah. The El Salvador community trying to work with the.. that’s my other work that I get more of a sense of what is going on in the community and how people are feeling about this and the immigrant policies.

Georgia: 37:00 Alright, so talking about the community, do you, what are some changes that you would like to see in Harrisonburg or in the nation in general relating to immigration?

Nelly :  37:15 There is a subject that has been very difficult to understand, the sanctuary cities. Are you familiar with that?

Georgia:37:15  Yeah.

Nelly:  37:39 So we don’t know..I am part of the Welcome to Harrisonburg council, which Skyline Literacy participates, Church World Services, New Bridges, the Harrisonburg public schools. The city hall  Deputy City Manager is part of that council too. So we are working through some activity how we can enhance that this town is a welcoming city. So that part, as a sanctuary, we are not working on yet, but I would like to see how we can see that better communication between the law enforcement. For example, the police in the immigrant community, the companies that have the most of the minority as the workers. The poultry plants, for example, they can have better labor rights in their companies. There are many people there that are saying that the work compensation for any, you know, problems that they have, doesn’t compensate if they have to leave work. And you know, that part is very hard and I know saying that is easy, but I would like to see that change too and I would like to see people more organized and try to raise their voice. I know that this is hard because people could come and they work, work, work, and then go from work to home. And so it is hard to organize the people. But in general I think that this city is a warm city, you know. I can say that I appreciate a lot about how many people do work for the community here, the churches, the churches are very important. They are getting us all together to work with some issues here too.

Georgia : 39:54  Mhm, yeah. And what do you think of the rhetoric around the issue of immigration in the public sphere? (mispronounced)

Nelly: 40:18 Its sphere. I don’t know, maybe you say it right. It’s esfera in espanol, in spanish. Coming from where? From here, from the city, from the government?

Georgia : 40:20  I know Harrisonburg is much more accepting of immigrants then other places in the world, but I guess, maybe the rhetoric before our current administration? And then how, have you seen a change in attitudes in Harrisonburg since the Trump administration? Or has it seemed…

Nelly : 40:41  I heard that there had been a change. I have some students that work for the poultry plants who said that after Trump won last year, there were some coworkers, white employees, that they were saying to them, “hey, you have to go back to your country.” And they had documents, and they were coworkers that had worked with them for many years. “You have to go back period.” So there is a lady who is the coordinator, diversity program coordinator, at Sentara RMH and she was sharing the elevator with another white guy. And that lady is a professional, you know, and fluent in English, with an accent and because her accent was profound, the guy said, “hey, you will have to go back to your country.” But she came here when she was 10, she studied at JMU. And he said, “no, you have to go back, your people, you have to go back.” And these are different, we’re talking about a labor worker and a professional worker. There is no distinction. We are treated because our skin color or because our accent. So fortunately I have not experienced that myself, but I see that there are many, many people that they, we are facing more prejudice or stereotypes. And you don’t have to be too smart to understand that this is anti immigrant policies now. That’s just the message. So programs that had been for years, people that had been reporting and said that this TPS, every 18 months to check their background. They are clean, they pay taxes and they have children living here in United, they were born in United States. And you are saying, ok standard is, you go back home, I don’t care. Your children are citizens. They don’t care about the security of those children. So they are only seeing that what seems to be, to make this segregated again and you know, it’s just white supremacy.

Georgia : 43:39  Yeah, yeah that’s awful. Do you know, I’m not sure if you would have the records of it, but do you know if anybody who has come through Skyline Literacy has been deported because of DACA or anything else?

Nelly : 44:02 No, see through our program I do not have that. We have one lady that she was denied for citizenship because they said that the process to get the green card was not, I don’t know how to say, but was not proper process. So they have to hold that citizenship and she needed to start over again. Probably she needed to go back to her country, and so that was weird. She hired a lawyer. So I don’t know what’s happening with her, but what were seeing is more cases. More cases that you didn’t do something correct in the process, just hold it. The screening is more deep, and deportation, deportation in this community so far I think that there are only a couple of deportations because we try to, you know, be aware of what was happening. And one guy that was, that they were, that he was on the border, I think that they, he has two more years so he wasn’t deported. But that was, he wasn’t one our students, he was pretty new here.

Georgia : 45:26  So when you personally went through the process of getting your citizenship, was there anything that you struggled with or how long did that take you?

Nelly : 45:46 A short period, I studied for the exam in six hours. So, no, it wasn’t difficult. The difficult part for us when I was coming here because my husband was working in El Salvador. He moved to El Salvador when he finished college. So he didn’t get any experience here in the United States and coming back, even though I was his wife, they didn’t want to give me the visa. The way how I got to visa was through my, in-laws, my father and mother-in-law, they provided all the financial statement and I was quick, so we were ready to come here. Harold can bring my children, our children here, but I was going to stay in my country because I didn’t have the visa until my in-laws were able to provide the sponsorship. So that was the difficult part, then the rest three years later of living here, I was able to get my citizenship and the 100 questions are general, you know, information similar to what the government or Democrats in other countries like El Salvador. However there was, just learning the names, how to say of the people my daughter helped me with that. And the interview was only five minutes, six minutes. So yeah, they don’t bother too much people that understand more of the intermediate level English. They do more with the people that they struggle now. Yeah. But at that time it was easier and cheaper too. I paid only $300.

Georgia: 45:46 Oh really?

Nelly: 45:46 But now it’s $725 and they are going to raise it to be $1,000. Yeah, in a couple years, they say that.

Georgia: 45:46 Why are they raising it so much?

Nelly : 47:54 The Department of Homeland Security or the naturalization processes staff and how to say, they are paid by the fee that people pay for the application. So all the operational expenses is through the fee of the applicants. And we’re talking two million people or more, I don’t know how many people, don’t quote me on that, how many people a year. But just in this town per year are around 600 that come.

Georgia : 48:37  OK, well thank you for sharing all of that. So my last, sort of wrap up question would just be.. because this is going to be posted on our website, for the immigrants of Harrisonburg website. So when people listen to this interview and hear your story and your experiences, what are some main takeaways or what are some things that you would like them to know?

Nelly : 49:09  I would like that they know that the immigrants, that this great nation was built by immigrants. And immigrants that come in the last decades, they come because they want a better opportunity for their family. They fled their own countries because violence or poverty. So we want, we are here to work hard, we’re hard workers. So we are also proud to serve in our community that welcome us to and that’s a big part in the community. We want them to respect our staff and they see us as a member of the community and that we contribute to the society to make it a great community, you know. So stereotypes and putting labels to people, this is something that is hard to rid of. But hopefully with the message, with a different way that we can create, that we interact with each other so we see that more inclusive and more integrated. My message is that, see us as a member of the community. I fell in love with this community and when I say that how I feel that I  belong to this community is how I am involved in different things. So that’s why I feel that I am home, not only in learning English or in going to the church. You know, so that’s why I participate, but if you see me, and think you don’t speak the language, you know, I can’t even if I know that I can.

Georgia : 51:07   Right, absolutely. Well thank you so much. I really enjoyed this interview and I’m excited to, you know, get this information out and share it with the public. So thank you.

By Jacqueline Garcia

February 22, 2018 at 1:40 p.m.

JACQUELINE:

Okay, so my name is Jacqueline Garcia. Today is February 22, 2018 and I am here with Sal Romero.

When were you born?

SAL:

April 30th, 1978

JACQUELINE:

And where were you born?

SAL:

I was born in a very small town called El Dormido, which is in the state of Guanajuato, Mexico.

JACQUELINE:

And what are the names of your parents?

SAL:

My dad’s name is Salvador Romero, same as mine. And my mom’s name is Ofelia Romero.

JACQUELINE:

What do they do for a living?

SAL:

So they have been in Harrisonburg for 27 years and they have been working in poultry, in the poultry industry.

JACQUELINE:

So can you describe how your journey to the United States? How old were you?

SAL:

Sure, so I came to the U.S. in 1991 at the age of 13. And that’s because my parents had moved to Harrisonburg. Obviously like many immigrants, in search of a better life and they had some friends and a few relatives that had moved to Harrisonburg so that’s why we came here.

JACQUELINE:

And how did your relatives know to come to Harrisonburg?

SAL:

So my dad and other of my relatives were using to working in the farms on the west coast and they did seasonal jobs in the orchards, all across the west coast. But then, they would always have to go back to Mexico and come back and migrate regularly. So they wanted to find a more steady job and they had some acquaintances that moved to Harrisonburg to work in the poultry plants and you know, word of mouth travels fast and they found that there were jobs here that were year round and that’s why he came here.

JACQUELINE:

How many brothers and sisters do you have?

SAL:

I have 3 sisters and 1 brother.

JACQUELINE:

And are you the oldest? Youngest?

SAL:

I am the oldest.

JACQUELINE:

So where did you grow up?

SAL:

So I grew up, for most of my childhood, from when I was born to about age 9, I was born in a very small town in a very rural area where my parents were born and that was in Mexico in a little town called El Dormido. And everyone knew each other, lots of family members, extended family and one very little school, very small school. And we didn’t even have a grocery store. When I was growing up, we were just getting ready to get portable water. We had electricity at that point but it was a very, very small town in the outskirts of a mountain, very pretty.

JACQUELINE:

So in Mexico, what were your parent’s jobs there?

SAL:

So my mom stayed at home and cared for us. And she also did some work like the most of the people that lived there, growing corn and beans and some other vegetables and fruits. People basically did that to have a sustainable way to feed themselves. My dad when he was there he didn’t work, he just came to visit so in his off time when he wasn’t working in the U.S., he would come to us in Mexico.

JACQUELINE:

Do you remember at all your journey to the U.S.? Can you describe that a little bit?

SAL:

Sure, my mom and dad left us behind, that is two of my sisters and myself.

JACQUELINE:

And what year was this?

SAL:

This was in 1991.

JACQUELINE:

Okay.

SAL:

They left two of my sisters and myself with an aunt while they came to the U.S. with my two younger siblings. You know, to maybe test it out a little bit, to kind of see if this was the place they wanted to come to. So six months later, they decided to bring us along. They had already stabilized a little bit here. They were living with another family and they were getting ready to buy a small trailer to live in so my dad had a job and my mom was staying at home, caring for my brother and my sister. So when it was time to come, he asked my granddad, my paternal granddad to bring not only my two sisters and myself, but some other relatives to the border to meet him there.

So I remember I was very excited, my sisters were really excited. The bus trip was probably fourteen hours, I would think, from our hometown to the border in Texas. And, you know, I remember getting to Texas, to, to the border on the Mexican side and just kind of waiting for my dad to meet us but obviously we needed to cross the border so we were asked to go to a hotel and wait for people who my dad had paid some money to get us across and I remember seeing this woman with a younger child, who was probably 5 or 6 and I remember them coming to the door and knocking on the door and identifying themselves and then saying “Are we ready? Are we ready to go?” And so we hopped on another bus that took us to the outside of the city, more of a rural area and then we just started to walk and we probably walked for about 30 minutes, maybe 20 minutes but I would say probably no more than 30 minutes.

JACQUELINE:

Was this in a desert or?

SAL:

It was right outside the city, actually. I remember there were some hills and you know, a country like setting. It was not intimidating in any way or form. You know, things have changed quite a bit. Back in the early 90’s, I would assume it was a lot easier to cross without much issues. We crossed, I remember, and then we came into a store, on the U.S. side and we waited there a good while until a taxi came and the taxi put us, multiple taxis I would assume, but I remember getting a taxi and then they drove us to a hotel. And then, once in the hotel, my dad and my uncle would come along for one of his sons, we all got in the car. It was actually 5 kids, 5 young kids and my dad and my uncle in one car.

JACQUELINE:

So your dad and your uncle came from Harrisonburg to Texas to meet you guys?

SAL:

Yeah, so we drove from Texas to Virginia. I think it took us a few days.

JACQUELINE:

And was that part of the trip hard? Or was it mostly –

SAL:

No it was not hard at all. I remember it was hot. We were kind of crowded in the back of the car but it was all fun because we were coming to America and so we were beginning to enjoy some of the foods and beginning to enjoy the landscape, the differences, the experience was all different so it was, for me, it was particularly exciting because I was going to be with my parents who I had not been with regularly, my dad would always come for a few months and leave, and he would do this every year, so it was fun.

JACQUELINE:

Was it easy for your dad to come back and forth to you guys?

SAL:

So my dad was a legal resident so my dad was able to adjust his legal status, because of the 1986 – 87 amnesty. He was a good worker and he had good references from his bosses, the farmers, and all over the – mostly in Washington State. I guess he was able to meet the requirements, which included some letters of recommendations from people that he had worked with so he was a legal resident and so he was able to travel back and forth, at least by 1981, he was a legal resident. He did not have to cross illegally; he was able to cross without a problem.

JACQUELINE:

What about your mom?

SAL:

So my mom – all we had was a social security card. All of us, my mom, my siblings and myself and my dad was able to do that because as soon as he became a resident, he started the process to kind of get us a status but obviously that didn’t happen until many, many years after that the process started to move along. So when we first crossed the border, all we had was a social security card that was not authorized for employment. It was very clear on the card “not authorized for employment”.

JACQUELINE:

So only your dad could work?

SAL:

Yes, only my dad could work – legally. So at that point, I remember my parents saying “well you know, once we get into the U.S., even if we don’t have documents and even if we get pulled over because I am a resident, they won’t be able to take you away”. I don’t know if they said that just to comfort us, but I remember that was something I heard multiple times.

JACQUELINE:

What would you say was the hardest challenge coming across?

SAL:

I mean, I think for sure, now that I reflect as an adult, maybe at that time, I did not recognize it, I was leaving a number of friends, leaving a home, actually a home that my parents had bought in a bigger city that we had lived in for a few years, leaving everything there, you know, school, relatives, grandparents, that was the hardest thing I believe, to recognize I don’t know the next time I am going to come back and see them but I think at that point, it seemed that I was more excited to be with my family than really acknowledging what I was leaving behind.

JACQUELINE:

So once you guys arrived in Virginia, what was the process from there?

SAL:

As far as?

JACQUELINE:

As far as adjusting to living situations, the job situation?

SAL:

Yeah so, when we got here, my mom and dad lived with the same uncle who had 3 children, so their family was 5 members and our family was 7 members, which made 12 in a two-bedroom trailer. And so, in the beginning, it was difficult because we didn’t have the space, which we were using to having, a small house, but nevertheless, we had a house. So that was an adjustment, which only lasted about 6 months because my dad, both mom and dad are really hard workers. They soon recognized that we needed to get our own place. In maybe 6 months to a year, we had our trailer, which we were able to live in for a number of years, but just adjusting to that was difficult. Adjusting to the fact that we had to go to school. We didn’t speak the language. My dad spoke English but he didn’t feel as comfortable with it to go to the schools as well. The food was different, I remember going to school and not liking the food.

JACQUELINE:

How did your dad learn English?

SAL:

Just at work. He is just one of those quick learners who was determined to learn it. And he did very well.

JACQUELINE:

Where did you go to school?

SAL:

So I went actually here, in this area, I went to Broadway High School, which is 15 to 20 minutes from here. I went there and graduated in 1996. And my first year, here in the U.S. was in 8th grade. One of the county schools, John C Meyers Middle School which is just a minute away from the old high school that old high school that I graduated from is no longer at high school, it is now a middle school. So that’s where I went. We lived in a trailer park right outside of the city limits so at that point in 1991, actually this did not even exist, this right here where we are sitting, was um, for lack of a better word, a dump basically. So you know, the city was smaller obviously, but we didn’t live in the county so we couldn’t go to the city schools. Even if that would have been the case, there weren’t many Latinos in this community at that point but the school was probably 20 minutes away from our house.

JACQUELINE:

And how was the adjustment to school? Did you feel excluded at all because you were different from other kids or?

SAL:

So the first year, one of the people who came along with us when we first moved was my uncle who is only a year older than I am so we grew up like brothers. He’s my dad’s youngest brother so we grew up and did everything together. So when he went to school with me, we went to school together in 8th grade, he should have been a freshman in high school at that point, but they kind of kept him back to be together. When he was there, when there were two other or three other kids who were there that we knew and lived in the same trailer park, you know we kind of hung together, we did things together, we felt more protected. Even when the kids didn’t like us, some of the kids didn’t like us. Some of the kids would try to find ways to intimidate us. I felt like we had each other to support each other, right? But he only went to the 8th grade and then he quit. He wanted to work. So I stayed in school. High school was really, really, really difficult. I was small in stature. I didn’t speak the language. Obviously, I was brown and a lot of the kids in that school did not have as much experience with other kids that were different from them, so they didn’t know any better and so they treated me – not all, but many – in a way that, you know, no one would want their kids to be treated.

JACQUELINE:

So the majority of students at that time were Caucasian would you say?

SAL:

So the school at that point, my assumption is that it was 98 percent Caucasian, maybe, well in 98, there was one African American student and there were just a handful of Latinos, probably like 3 or 4.

JACQUELINE:

Where did your uncle work after he quit school?

SAL:

So he went to work at the orchard. There was an orchard just north of here, probably 30 minutes away. And he worked there, that was his first job. And then, he jumped around until he found something he liked better. He was fifteen at that point. He was ready to take a job, he thought anyway. And then, he did live in our house because my dad was basically, he came here with us, and then eventually he moved to, moved in with another aunt, and lived with them while he was working.

JACQUELINE:

What made you stay in school in comparison to working like your uncle?

SAL:

So I, trust me, there were multiple times I didn’t want to go back to school. It was not fun to be in school and I wasn’t, I didn’t feel like I was making connections with people so I didn’t want to go back. So I think maybe when I was 16, in 10th grade I believe, I told my mom and dad, “I don’t want to go to back to school, I wanna get a job.” I said, “listen, look, my brother, I called my uncle, ‘brother’, he’s working, he already has a car, he’s got money, he’s got a good life. And I don’t wanna go back. And then would say well you gotta go back, so they kept telling me I needed to be in school. But one day, my dad said when school lets out, we will get you a job and you know, we will see what you think about it afterwards. So they got me a job in the summer, I guess, of my sophomore year and I went to work at a poultry plant where my mom was working. And my dad, was my dad there, I don’t think my dad was there but my mom was there. My mom was there, I do remember that. Oh yes, my dad was there because he actually chose to put me, to have me do some jobs that were not really pleasant. If you are not familiar with poultry work, yeah, it’s not pleasant at all, at least many of the jobs. So anyway, I remember hanging chicken, raw chicken, there was poop all over the place. It was filthy, it was stinky, it was not good. And so, as the summer, getting ready to end, my dad said “so what do you think? Do you want to keep the job or do you want to go back to school?” And I said “I think I want to go back to school.” I rather get pushed around and bullied than to get poop all over my face when I’m working so that was a good experience I think.

JACQUELINE:

It made you learn. (laughs)

SAL:

Yeah, it was a good learning experience; I think he did it on purpose. That was really the drive behind it, I just didn’t see myself doing this for the rest of my life. And sure enough, my dad has had the opportunity to move on and to get promoted a couple of times but I didn’t see myself in that type of environment for the rest of my life so…

JACQUELINE:

By that time, where was your father working?

SAL:

So he was in poultry, he was still in poultry, that’s all he has even done since he came to Harrisonburg. So obviously he started at the line like everybody else and over the years he moved companies and currently he is in, Pilgrims’ pride which is in Broadway, right next to the school where I went to school and he works in the HR department. So you know, he doesn’t work in the line anymore but he has been able to kind of gain some status there. So he is fine now but my mom is still working on the line. She’s been there, she has doing it for a good while, over 20 years, very hard work.

JACQUELINE:

Yeah. Where are your siblings? Have they stayed in Harrisonburg? Have they moved elsewhere?

SAL:

Mhmm. Some of them are, well, most of them are. So Silvia is the second in the family. She is right behind me. And Silvia works at RMH, the hospital here, at Sentara. She is, she was able to also get an education, as a matter of fact, she is working on her PhD, she has class, what’s today, she has them on Mondays, this is her second semester at JMU. And it’s a lot of work she tells me but you know, it’s a goal that she has. So she went to JMU for undergraduate, went to Chicago, Western Chicago maybe for Master’s and now working on her PhD. She is the coordinator of diversity at the hospital. The next sister, Ophelia, who is the middle one. She works at RMH as well. She is an interpreter. She tried to go to college, she didn’t like school when we were growing up, she didn’t like school, she was always complaining and didn’t, very bright and very smart, and didn’t want to do her homework and didn’t want to go to school, anyway, she ended up graduating from high school but didn’t go to college. She attempted to go to college in her adult years, maybe 6 or 7 years ago, but with two kids, it was just difficult so she kind of put a pause to that and is currently not in school. She does not have a college degree. The fourth kid, which is Erika. She has a teaching degree from EMU, Eastern Mennonite University. She is currently in Mexico. Her husband was deported. And so – He was deported for 10 years so he ended up having to go back to his home, which is a different state than our home state in Mexico, so she left a teaching job here in the city schools to move back with him and he has been gone for 8 years, maybe close to 9. And she has been gone for probably 4, she has tried to stay here and work, it was just too difficult to be away, for the kids growing up without a dad so she is currently there. She is doing well. She is keeping up her teaching degree, she has an English school, a little English school that she started over there, so she is still teaching. And my youngest brother he is currently in school at Blue Ridge Community College.

JACQUELINE:

Have you – you mentioned that her husband got deported, have you experienced any problems with “la migra” that we say here, throughout this process?

SAL:

So, no. We haven’t – fortunately we haven’t. When we got here, my dad, like I said, my dad had already submitted the documents to get our papers, to get our legal status adjusted. It was really a slow process and cost a lot of money. So you know, my dad eventually became a citizen and that helped the process get a little more expedited. So I believe we adjusted our status in maybe, 1998, around that time. And so by that point, we all became legal residents. And within five years, I believe, I became a citizen. So I have been a citizen for a good while and so at this point, I believe I don’t have to worry about anything, (laughs) but I don’t know. (laughs)

JACQUELINE:

So where do you live now?

SAL:

I live in Harrisonburg.

JACQUELINE:

And do you live in the same area you lived in before? Do you see your old house that you used to live in?

SAL:

So, no. We live on the opposite end. My kids do know where I used to live because we go by there sometimes. I still have family that live in that trailer park. When I graduated from JMU, back in 2004, I had just recently married my wife that spring break before graduation.

JACQUELINE:

Aww. (laughs).

SAL:

It was really nice, but at the same time, well, what are we doing? (laughs) Why couldn’t we just wait until we graduated? (laughs) So anyways, I graduated from JMU, I took a job and I told my wife, I don’t know what your thoughts are but I would like for us to get a house. And we are going to get it soon. Let’s give us a year. So we, in a year, we bought a home, and we have been living in that home since.

JACQUELINE:

Wow!

SAL:

We made it a goal and we did it.

JACQUELINE:

That’s great. So can you tell me more about, going back to how you said you were working in poultry for a short period of time, what was your experience with that? Can you give some more details? The environment?

SAL:

Sure, I worked in poultry for two years, two summers, two different companies. And uh, the first experience obviously was at the plant where my mom and dad worked and so a lot of the people that I knew that were there, were people we knew, a lot of people from the community and it was a great part of minorities, people we knew so the work itself was very hard, very physical, very demanding. You know, obviously the lines were going really fast and had to be done at a high rate. People were obviously nice to me because they knew I was a high school kid and I was trying to make some money during the summer time. And they knew my family so people were very nice to me. But the work, nevertheless, was really hard. So the conditions were not the best for employees. And so, my second experience was with another company and because I did speak more of the language at that point, I was able to have a job within the plan that was much more flexible, right. I was floating around different places, I was helping out in different ways. And so the job itself is not as difficult and I think I was able to utilize my language skills because a lot of the people that worked there did not speak English. And so, I was able to help out so that kind of gave me a different perspective. That I as a new, temporary employee was coming in and had some privileges that others didn’t have who had been there for some years. And so that company had the same expectations, the production had to be high, so the working conditions were not as great because they demanded the best of people every day and it’s a lot of physical labor.

JACQUELINE:

Were you the youngest that was there? Was high school age the youngest age of people there?

SAL:

I don’t remember any other young Latinos that were there at that point. In neither of those places. Oh yes, the first one, there was a good friend of mine that was also in school. His parents also worked at the plant so when he heard I was going to get a job there, he said “Oh I’m going to get it too!” so we worked that summer together but then he ended up moving to North Carolina, I believe.

JACQUELINE:

Was there a mixture of documented and undocumented people that were working there?

SAL:

Yes, for sure. And that is still the case nowadays.

JACQUELINE:

And would you see experiences of like raids there?

SAL:

So, yeah I never saw it myself but I do know there were several in some of the plants and I know that because I had relatives there working. But um, the last one, I don’t even know when it was. It was years ago. So yeah, they had a few raids at a couple of the plants.

JACQUELINE:

Were most of the Latinos from Mexico or were there other countries?

SAL:

So the demographics of the Latino community over the years have changed. It used to be that the majority of the Latinos in Harrisonburg, at least in the mid 90’s were from Mexico. They were some from El Salvador but mostly Mexican based. Over the years, things have changed. Less Mexicans are coming to the U.S. You know, we have had a significant influx of Central American families that have come. With my job with the city schools, I am able to pull demographics and I know that Mexican is not the largest group anymore. It is typically kids from Honduras and El Salvador. Those are very rapidly growing populations.

JACQUELINE:

What is your job? And the process of getting to that current job?

SAL:

So I started as an ESL teacher. I worked at multiple schools in the city and then I became an assistant principal after I got my masters.

JACQUELINE:

Which schools were they?

SAL:

I was an assistant principal at Stone Spring Elementary, which is on Port Republic Road and then I was an assistant principal at Spotswood Elementary School, which is down off of Reservior. And then during that time, I obviously was doing some other things, involved in different things throughout the community. I saw a great need for an outreach person from the division level so I spoke to the superintendent and he was really fond about the idea. And so, for the last year and a half, almost 2 years, I have been the coordinator for family and community engagement for the division. So I get to work with all the schools in our division and then I get to collaborate with many businesses, employers, and organizations.

JACQUELINE:

So what does a typical day look like for you? As an assistant principal at Spotswood Elementary School?

SAL:

When I was at Spotswood Elementary School, my last year was two years ago, a typical day was basically getting to the school early, being ready for the students as soon as they got off the bus, greeting them with a big smile and giving them a high-five, and saying welcome, good to see you. And once the kids were in the building, just kind of patrolling the hallways, and more than patrolling, interacting with teachers and students. And then, after that, there were meetings, instructional meetings that would take place but surely you would often see me with the kids. Whether it was having lunch with them or going outside at recess with them or waving them goodbye as they were on the bus to go back home.

JACQUELINE:

What made you want to pursue a career in education?

SAL:

So out of JMU, I majored in kinesiology, a sports medicine major and became an athletic trainer. I worked in Augusta County as a athletic trainer and not only did I do that, I was also required to teach an elective. I taught sports medicine. Uh, and I really enjoyed teaching. I never thought I would like teaching. So I did that for two years but I wanted to make a bigger impact in Harrisonburg, not in another county. The demographics were growing in our area and I felt that my skillset was really able to fit here. And obviously, I lived in the city. I never left the city. So I decided to pursue a position within the city. My first job was actually not as a teacher. My first job was as a homeschool liaison. The homeschool liaisons are in every school. They are bilingual personnel that work full time. Their main job is to be the link between the Latino families and the school. And they help with interpretations, with translations, and the advocacy for the families. So I did that for about a year and in the meantime, I went back to school to get my teaching degree because I saw myself becoming a principal at some point but in order to be a principal, obviously, I needed the classroom experience, which by that point, I didn’t have a license. Went back to school, got a license, first year I was a homeschool liaison, and the second year, I became an ESL teacher and I taught for about 5 years before I became an assistant principal.

JACQUELINE:

So how is it being an advocate and liaison between the Latino families and the school? Was there any specific experience that really stood out to you?

SAL:

Well, it was very helpful that I knew the community. Many of the people that would come to the school, I knew or either formally, or informally. I had met them through different things I was involved in, in the community. Whether it was through a soccer league or an after school program or church or whatever it was. I had a connection, not anymore because we have grown so much, but people were able to recognize who I was so when it came time to really engage in really difficult conversations or really meaningful conversations, we had that relationship, which made it much easier.

JACQUELINE:

Already had that trust.

SAL:

Yes, the trust was already there so people knew that it was safe for them to come and speak and share anything that was going on. I mean, I still get phone calls from families that I used to work with. As a matter of fact, this morning, I got a call from one of the families I used to work with at Spotswood. They are having trouble with their kids at another school so they wanted me to see what I can do to help. In my position now, I oversee those homeschool liaisons now so I am in constant communication with them.

JACQUELINE:

And more about the ESL program, I have heard a little bit about it, that it has expanded a lot in recent years. Can you share some details about that?

SAL:

Right. So the last numbers I was looking at recently, we have about 6,300 students in the city schools and about 2,000 or so are language learners so it is a pretty large percentage of students who need services, which means we have to have specialized teachers, right? Like ESL teachers. We do have a lot of kids that exit out of the program who are no longer, ESL – not considered ELL. For example, my son Danny is in the sixth grade. He is a language learner because his first language is Spanish. And he was receiving services up until maybe second grade or third grade. Now, he is not considered an ELL student.

JACQUELINE:

Services for?

SAL:

For learning the language. Language support. So we have ESL teachers in every school to support the needs of the students. We have an ESL specialist that works at all the schools to facilitate professional development and support for the students and within that, we have a newcomer program, which is really a program that helps kids accelerate their language acquisition and we have multiple programs around the city from the elementary to the high school level and those programs have done really well for our kids. These programs have done really well for our kids. Our kids in a short period of time are ready to go into a mainstream classroom and do really well with support. Those programs are really specific to those who have just moved to our country, who speak no English or very little.

JACQUELINE:

And do you guys talk to the parents at all as part of this job?

SAL:

For me, I spend most of my time interacting with parents. And what I do is basically, my role is to be able to be strategic about the way we engage our families. We try to find what is working better, how do we empower our parents and obviously knowledge is power so we try to bring some knowledge. We also eek feedback as to what it is you are needing from us. This week, I was in Cargill, which is a poultry plant out in Dayton and I bring workshops to the plants during work – well, actually it is right after work hours but the plant is paying the employees to attend these workshops. The same day we were at Keester and we had a parent group in which we were able to have a listening to kind of know what are parents missing, what is the school lacking, efforts so that the school can do better and increase outreach, so parents feel welcomed and feel like their voice is important and it matters. So I am looking at different ways of really engaging our families, whether it is at the school or the community, at work, after Mass at church, or whatever it takes.

JACQUELINE:

Continuing on the community since you are really close with them, when did you see that shift from knowing everyone to Harrisonburg expanding greatly?

SAL:

Oh my. I don’t know if I can pinpoint when it was.

JACQUELINE:

Just like an estimate.

SAL:

I think it was like a gradual type of a thing, you know what I mean? And if you look at the statistics of the growth of the city, you can see it’s not like boom and then we are kinda there, it’s an increase over the years, just happening. Yeah I don’t know when it was, I just know I go out and about and I see people I have never seen in my life. And you know, we get people who are moving to Harrisonburg from all over the state and all parts of the country. Last week, a person from Alexandria wanted to come visit a school because they are moving here. So why are they moving here? And it’s because we have a great city. We have a lot of great things to offer, and people just keep moving. And JMU brings in a lot of people, a lot of professors and obviously their kids, it’s a growing city for sure.

JACQUELINE:

Is there anything economically that you have reached from working in poultry to now being principal of a school? Do you see yourself in this change in economic status and has that impacted your outlook ­– we had to fight for what we needed and what we wanted and to now looking back, having a stable life?

SAL:

Obviously, you know it makes a big difference. Not only the fact that now we have the opportunity to raise our kids. My wife and I have raised our kids in a different way than how we were raised. We have honestly, a very stable income that allows us to have a home, to allows us opportunity to travel and take vacation, to have insurance, to go out and eat. Just to do the things we wouldn’t have been able to do if we had not been able to achieve at least the goals that we set for ourselves. I think it’s definitely changing in the way that my kids will have access to other opportunities. Danny, for example, does travel soccer. We travel with him all the time. I mean, we go away for the weekend and we don’t have to worry about having the money to go, or the time, or the flexibility with work. And obviously, that is an opportunity that will enrich his life. An opportunity that he will take on and also with college, you know, he is one that – he will go to college. That is an expectation that Danny will go to college because of my experience and I feel like it is no longer “if” you would go to college one day or what if you would go? It’s like “when” you go, here’s what you gotta do to get there and so I think those expectations are different now. Things have definitely changed in many different ways for us.

JACQUELINE:

And you spoke about your wife. What does she do for a living?

SAL:

So she works for a small company. She is a production manager for a small company. You know, herself, she has been able to overcome a lot of different things. She came to this country at maybe 21 and she wasn’t able to go to college. She went to school to learn English obviously but…

JACQUELINE:

And where is from?

SAL:

She’s from Mexico. We’re from the same town actually. We grew up in the same town.

JACQUELINE:

Oh wow!

SAL:

And so, you know, she has been able to overcome a lot of different things and she still continues to struggle with the language but she has a great work ethic and works well with people and has high expectations for herself so she has been able to get some promotions to where she is now the plant manager for production.

JACQUELINE:

And can you tell about how your kids have been in Harrisonburg in the school system? From their eyes, what is their perspective from kids that look like them and kids from Honduras and El Salvador like you were saying?

SAL:

So you know, obviously, when I was in the building as an assistant principal, they would always come with me to the events. Now that I am at the central office and I do outreach for all the schools, they still come along. So they still get to see all the schools, they get the chance to go with me on home visits, go to neighborhoods, they get a chance to see the reality of many of the students, not only at school but at home. So they have a good understanding of where everybody kind of is. I think they see the school as a great place to be. They know that I work for the schools. They know that I love our schools and that I am a great advocate. The beauty about children is that they don’t see differences, at least in my experience. They see kids for who they are, how they behave and how they treat others. They see past the color of your skin. And that’s really a good experience to have and they teach us so much about that. And you know as they grow and they begin to look at themselves and identify who they are as people, that’s where we as parents have to be there to really ensure that they understand their family background, they have a good understanding of what it means to be a Mexican-American so there is no conflict standing for one flag or the other flag and respecting the fact that this country so many opportunities and we are not only thankful, but we are blessed. And so, it comes with teaching, and your own teaching as a parent.

JACQUELINE:

So kinda going back to your parents for a second, you said they still live in Harrisonburg?

SAL:

Yes.

JACQUELINE:

Seeing that now, your whole family has been living in Harrisonburg, how has that impacted your life? Having your parents still here and still seeing them? Have they economically grown from where it was before?

SAL:

I think culturally at least the way I was raised, family is there and will always be there for you. Not only when you need them, but also when you don’t need them. They are always going to be there for you. So you know, we go to my parents house all the time. We actually make sure we go once every other week and have a meal together. After we got our small trailer, which was really small, we were growing up and they noticed we needed a bigger place. So they bought a double wide which was really like a house and I told my dad, I was like, and my mom as well, you guys need to be thinking about a house. They said, well, we are happy here. Once you get married, and your sister, we will get a house.  So my first year, like I shared before, when I completed a year of work, I went ahead and started looking for a house. So, a little story, I said to my dad one day, Dad – I am looking for house, I really want to get a house. Can you help me? Can you come along? I want to get some feedback. I don’t want to make a mistake here. And you know, I was just a year out of college. So we went and saw a house, he looked and he just kept looking, I said, “I like the house but it’s probably not for me.” He said, “how much is this house?” And so I shared with him the price of the house, and he said “hmm, that’s a very nice house. I think your mom will like it.” Well, they ended up buying the house.

JACQUELINE:

(laughs)

SAL:

They still in the same house. Fourteen years later, they still live in the house. It was because he came along and he actually took the off the blinders on his eyes and said “we can actually afford this house”. And how awesome would it be to live in a house. So they bought that house and they keep it really nice. They live for us and they live for their house.

JACQUELINE:

That must have been a really special moment for them.

SAL:

Yes, so my mom I remember she came to the house and she looked at it and she was like “we can’t live in a house like this”. And I said “why because it’s big and nice?” And, they bought it. They were able to kind of see the potential even though their jobs were not high paying jobs. They were able to see that having a house is a life-time investment, not only for retirement. That’s what we come to every single day.

JACQUELINE:

You said earlier being Mexican-American and what that means to your kids. What does that mean to you?

SAL:

Right. So to me, obviously I came at 13, so it is a little different. I feel like I have a – my roots are really – I had really deep roots of being a Mexican. Because I grew up there, and at the age of 13, I had a pretty good understanding, it felt, of what it meant to be a Mexican. Here in the U.S., I have been here for 26 years, this is my home. This is my home, this is not any different than being back home in Mexico. I have values. I have memories. I have stories. I have traditions that are unique to Mexico that are very important to me still. We celebrate them as much as when can and when we go back to visit, they are there and they are a part of who I am. But I have been able to grow into this country and understand, that you know, all that I have has been in great part, yes the hard work and the perseverance and everything else, but just the opportunities that this country provided me. And I just love this country so much, it’s like, I keep telling my son, you know, I am a true Mexican. And maybe those in Mexico don’t believe that I am, (laughs), but I can tell you with certainty that we, that I, owe this country so much that, you know, we have to be thankful and respectful and appreciative and if I ever have to fight for someone, I would fight for this country. I have a big part of me is this brown skin obviously but I feel as American as anybody else. I feel like the things I do in the community to contribute to a better society, to our children, and adults as well are worthy of any American and if more people were doing things like that, we would have a better country. I don’t know if that is a great answer.

JACQUELINE:

No, this is great information. Thank you. You said you visit sometimes, do you visit with your kids at all?

SAL:

Yeah, we go back every year since they were – well, Danny is 11 and he was probably 3 the first time he went. So we’ve gone for a good 7-8 years together. And Jackie was just a baby the first time she went and any time we go back, they get a chance to visit the town where both my wife and I grew up. They get a chance to see some of the traditions, some of the culture, some of the food that we often times don’t have here. So they have enriched their lives obviously as well by learning what Mexico is about, and the people, and everything else. So they enjoy – they love going.

JACQUELINE:

So you said there wasn’t even a grocery store there, has your town changed in Mexico since then? You going back?

SAL:

It’s changed some. I mean, there is a small, little grocery store. The nearest town is probably ten minutes. It is a small town with, you know, they have some grocery stores, everything you need. But that little town remains similar that it used to be. We like the tranquility of it, we like the fact that we know everyone there and how safe it is. And the fact that you feel right at home, because a lot of it is family. When I go back, people remember me, the older people know who I am and those who don’t know who I am, I tell them who my granddad is and they know who I am, because my granddad was someone – almost like a founder of a lot of things in that town so yeah, it feels like home when we go back.

JACQUELINE:

When your granddad came and brought you guys to the border, did he go back?

SAL:

Yeah, he went back.

JACQUELINE:

Did he ever think about coming?

SAL:

He actually, my dad and another uncle, ending up adjusting my granddad and my grandma’s status so they ended up coming to the US and they lived in Virginia for a long time. Actually when my granddad got sick, he lived at our house with my wife and I for a good six months. I was very close to my granddad. My grandma is still here in Harrisonburg, as a matter of fact, I visited her yesterday. She is a little sick so I went to visit. She is 86 years old. Hanging in there, doing well.

JACQUELINE:

So if you could see the future of your kids, do you see them going to JMU and staying in Harrisonburg at all? Is that kind of your hope or?

SAL:

It’s one of those things, I feel that it would be great to have them around because I do have a very close relationship with both of my kids. But at the end of the day, it is going to be a matter of what is best for them at that point. Danny plays soccer and he is pretty good at it so my hope is that he continues to use as a way to express himself and look at it as a potential way to get a scholarship to get into college. Anyways, I think that soccer is going to be his motivation to get through school. He likes school but he is not a big, big fan like my daughter. My daughter could be in school every day until 8 o’clock.

JACQUELINE:

What is she interested in?

SAL:

(laughs) She has a lot of interests. She is very social and she likes to –she likes a lot of different things. But right now she wants to be a baker and I said “I will support you in anything you want”. I’m thinking this is just a phase. Maybe she will – I keep telling my kids that you know, what I need from you guys, I want you to be good people, if you are good people, and you get along with others, you make a difference in the world, you be whatever you want. That is my goal to have good kids that people can look up to you and say you know what, you are a good person. That is really my goal and in the process, get an education and get a good job where they will be able to have good opportunities for their kids, that’s the goal.

JACQUELINE:

Looking into the future, what are your plans?

SAL:

So, when is this gonna be archived – when is this gonna be – well by then you will probably know – I will be running for city council, which I hope nobody can hear that because it is still not official. So I ran for city council back in 2010 for the city of Harrisonburg and I was 31 years old and I was a teacher at that point and I was a director of an after-school program. And I was running against some older politicians, I am not a politician, but yet, I came very close to being elected, which was really, really encouraging. Because you know, as a minority in politics, I was prepared for the worst. But over the last year and a half, I have been thinking more about it and it’s time to do it again so I will be announcing in the next few weeks so we will see how it goes.

JACQUELINE:

What are some of the goals for the city on your platform?

SAL:

So I am working on that. (laughs) I don’t know if I am ready to speak about that. (laughs) I think one of the plans that I have – I have a lot of connections in the community, so I want to organize a way for us to plan some listening sessions, I can come up with a good platform and be like this is what I want to work on but I really wanna get feedback from our community. What is needed? What do we need to improve? What do we do to make our city better? You know, that is really my plan. I am not sure what I am going to be working on, obviously, education is going to be a key one. We’ll see.

JACQUELINE:

That is great information. Thank you. Also, I wanted to ask about – this is a more serious question if that’s okay.

SAL:

Sure.

JACQUELINE:

In our political climate right now with immigration being such a huge issue – it has always been a huge issue, but especially now with the past election and everything going on, what are your views about how the country is so divided right now?

SAL:

Well, I mean, to be honest with you, very worrisome. I don’t know how anybody would be happy about what’s happening right now as far as the climate that you encounter. You know, in our society, I had never felt discriminated against before, or felt like people looked down on me at any give time here, but I remember right after the election, I went to a travel soccer game with my son south of here, and we went into a restaurant with my family, my two kids and my wife, and we were speaking Spanish and we got some really, really intimidating looks from people that were there. It was not in Harrisonburg, it was actually in Roanoke. And I knew it had a lot to do with what was happening and so, you know, nowadays, I keep up with a lot that is happening around the city and you know, uh, the state, and around the country. And it is really, really scary what is going on right now. Our society is very divided, like you said. I think that we have to do something about it. We cannot just continue to live in a society that is this divided. It’s not a good thing for sure, not a good thing.

JACQUELINE:

Thank you so much, Sal. I really appreciate you talking to me today.

SAL:

Yeah, no problem.

William Finch: Today I’m here with Fernando Gamboa, interviewing him. It’s 5:20, March 12th, 2018.

Finch: Hi, Fernando. How are you?

Fernando Gamboa: I’m doing well. How are you?

Finch: Pretty good. Pretty good. Now, can you tell me your name, age and, uh, where you’re from?

Gamboa: Um, I’m Fernando Gamboa. I’m, uh, 22. Uh, I grew up in Harrisonburg, um, but I’m from Colombia.

Finch: You’re from Colombia. Now what part of Colombia?

Gmaboa: Uh, Bucaramanga. It’s like a city in Santander, which is like the department, I think is what they’re called.

Finch: Okay.

Gamboa: …the state.

Finch: Okay. Now, what about your childhood, now. Where were you, were you educated originally in Colombia, were you educated primarily here?

Gamboa: Um, I guess like I’m, I came here when I was five, um, so I went to like preschool and like, that’s about it in Colombia, and then I just went to like Harrisonburg City schools and now I’m here.

Finch: Okay. All right. And, uh, did you grow up with a religion, if you don’t mind me asking? Um, are you still religious, do you still practice that religion?

Gamboa: Um, I am not. So I do not. Um, my family, I guess, is Catholic, like a bunch of peo- like a bunch of, I guess, Latinx people are. Um, and I guess I was like raised Catholic. Like I went to church, um, up until I was like halfway through high school then I jettisoned the whole like religion thing…um, my parents are like, what I, I generally like to call it Catholic light.

Finch: Mm-hmm.

Gamboa: They just only sometimes do church things, ’cause a lot of other stuff gets in the way.

Finch: Okay. All right. And how did you come to the United States?

Gamboa: Um, we flew here in 2001. Um, my dad had a specialty workers visa, it’s one of like the H … is it like the H-1B, I think is what it was. Um, and then we were like on the, I guess like adjacent visas, it’s like H, H-something, for like spouses and dependents. Um, and so like we flew here February 2001…and yeah.

Finch: And can you explain those, those visas? I mean, what are the different types of visas-

Gamboa: Um …

Finch: … for those who don’t know?

Gamboa: I guess, um…H1 is a specialty workers’ visa. Um, so it’s like…I guess, yeah. I guess special workers’ visas are for like computer jobs and stuff,and there are other types of visas, there are visas for, um, people who are like part of like the judicial, like, stuff if they’re like a victim of a, a crime, there’s visas for, like, celebrities, there’s a bunch of different kinds of visas, I guess. I’m not super well versed.

Finch: Okay. All right.  And, uh, did you live, you know, somewhere else before Harrisonburg when you, when you came to the United States or was Harrisonburg the first location that you went to?

Gamboa: Um, no, so like we came here right away. Um, my dad had, or has I guess, my godfather, it’s like my godfather’s cousin’s husband owned, owns, I guess owned, ’cause that company is no longer around, owned the company that my dad, uh, started working for. He came here on a tourism visa, found a job and then we came here follow, uh, like, following him after. Um, he, like, changed his visa status-

Finch: Okay.

Gamboa: … from tourism to like the specialty workers’.

Finch: And what was that job, if you don’t mind me asking you?

Gamboa: Um, it was something to do with old, like, real–time sharing, like vacation company that was around here. Um, and so, I think he like, he did something with computers ’cause he’s a systems engineer, um, er, back at home in Colombia, so, um, it was like working with the computer stuff.

Finch: Okay. All right. And, uh, I guess you’ve already, you’ve already answered most of this, but how did you end up finally here in Harrisonburg with the, your father.

(04:15) Gamboa: Yeah. So, my, yeah, my dad found, um, yeah he got that job, uh, or, yeah, got hired by that company while he was here on a tourism visa, um, and then we just kind of followed suit.

Finch: Right. Okay. And what was Harrisonburg like when you got here? What was it?

Gamboa: Um …

Finch: Was it friendly, hostile, was it …

Gamboa: I mean, I don’t, so I was like five-

Finch: Mm-hmm.

Gamboa: … um, so it’s like kind of hard to sort of tell. Um, I mean, so like, when we first got here it was like before 9-11, obviously, ’cause it was, um, February 2001. Um, so it’s like kind of interesting to sort of like hear my parents talk about the, like, flying before that versus like then now, like flying afterwards and then some of like the, so like responses other people had to like brown bodies post 9-11, um, we were like in DC at some point and, um, my dad who’s just like, I don’t know, he’s like a brown dude with like curly black hair, um, some guy like stopped him and like demanded to know where he was from.

Finch: Wow.

Gamboa: ‘Cause he’s like, looked like, I don’t know, someone who could be like, potentially have been a terrorist.  Um, so it’s like those sort of things, but that’s like, obviously not like Harrisonburg itself. Um, growing up and like the city schools and everything was like all right. Harrisonburg’s always like–there’s a lot of people of color here. Um, and, uh, I guess the way like the city is like, was sort of like built, it’s like there’s a huge Mennonite population like the Eastern, I think the Eastern Mennonite University does a lot of stuff of like, um, immigrants and it’s just sort of like a, this, like the people that prescribe to that religion to my understanding, are like this, those kinds of people are very like open and like welcoming to others. Um, I don’t know, it’s like a, just like a pretty nice place to be around.

Finch: So, in general, accepting.

Gamboa: Yeah.

Finch: Have there, have there been troubles, um, for you, I mean I kno- I know you mentioned your dad.

Gamboa: Um …

Finch: That encounter.

Gamboa: Yeah. I mean, like, personally not really other than like with trash people here at the University. Um, I remember there was like uh Senator Gutierrez, um, from, I think it was like some district in the Illinois, I don’t know, came here, um, to talk about, uh, immigration. We had a rally, uh, in Court Square with him there.

Finch: Mm-hmm.

Gamboa: And there was like some a**holes that like were being loud, like, while they were driving by. Like, nothing like super, at least to me like, to myself and my family have not experienced anything that’s like, um, viscerally violent.

Finch: Okay. All right.

Gamboa: …of our immigration status.

Finch: Right. Okay. Um, and currently do, do you hold a job right now-somewhere?

Gamboa: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I work at Staples. Um-

Finch: Okay.

Gamboa: … uh, I worked at Martin’s before that, or at some point for two weeks. That was no fun.

Finch: *laughs*

Gamboa: Um, um, but no, yeah. I have a job.

Finch: And how have the … How have those jobs been, how … are there, are there other people of, um, Latino descent working those jobs or have those jobs?

Gamboa: Um, used to, there was like … I mean like, no. Uh, at least in my department at the store, I’m the only person of color. There’s a bunch of other white dudes that work there.

Finch: Wow.

Gamboa: Um, the staple, like the store at large has a bunch of, uh, people, I mean it goes in and out, just people like are hired and quit or going to do something else, but, um, our, like I think the general manager is Egyptian. Um, they’re, and they’re like, no, like some … yeah. There are just people of other ethnicities that work there. Um, not entirely sure of like everyone’s migration status-

Finch: *laughs*

Gamboa: … but I can, I’m like, I’m, I would be pretty confident to say I’m like the only non-citizen that works there.

(08:55) Finch: Hmm. And how has Harrisonburg changed since you moved here? Changed a lot?

Gamboa: Mmm, it’s gotten bigger. So like-

Finch: Bigger?

Gamboa: … yeah there’s a lot more people here. It’s like, sort of, like the whole overcrowding problem, like, the schools have right now. It’s gotten a lot bigger, it’s gotten a lot more brown. Um, there’s a, there’s a huge influx of like, uh, there’s a larger Kurdish population, um, that’s here, um, and like the demographic’s just like gotten, um, a lot more diverse. Um, when my brother graduated high school, um, like, I guess one of the things they talked on at the, his Commencement, uh, ceremony was that there are a l- like it’s over 100 countries or something that are represented at the high school. Um, most are like there’s a large percentage of students there that speak more than two languages.

Finch: Okay.

Gamboa: Um, that are more than just English and Spanish. Like, the, um, a bunch of different dialects or like people that speak a bunch of, a lot of different languages. This is just a very diverse, um, city. And that’s the sort of interesting, sort of to see that juxtaposition between like Harrisonburg itself, and then like JMU, ’cause JMU is like very white, very rich…

Finch: Mm-hmm.

Gamboa: …compared to like everyone outside the bubble.

Finch: Right. Um, and you mentioned that you’re part of the debate teams-is that right?

Gamboa: Mm-hmm.

Finch: Right, what, what other organizations are you’re part of right now?

Gamboa: Um, I, I guess I would say I’m in a JMU Feminist Collective, um, and then, but, I guess I’d like to be more involved with, uh, JMU NAACP Chapter, but, um, like work has gotten in the way of being able to go to General Body Meetings…um, I’m trying to think. I guess the Society of Physics Students. Um, that’s just sort of like if you’re in the major you’re in, with, in, that organization.

Finch: Okay. And so, I mean, I don’t know if you could answer this, but what are the plans for those organizations for the future, um, specifically more the, the cultural ones…

Gamboa: Yeah.

Finch: …and the political ones.

Gamboa: Sure, um, I guess the NAACP, I’m not entirely sure I’m not on Exec, I’m like a General Body member. Um, I’m not entirely sure what their sort of like mission is outside of JMU, um, I know they do a bunch of stuff- like sort of like outreachy sort of things, they do some community service, um, for Martin Luther King, there’s like a breakfast, they had, I think, like a … what’s it called? Like a, a gala sort of thing and festival for that, um, up- upcoming, they have, like, Image Awards, so like you sort of like nominate people for, um, in some essay competition, uh, for that. The Feminist Collective, that one’s a kind of interesting, um, they’re sort of like, I guess, figuring out how to be more, uh, like, sort of have more Praxis, instead of just sort of like sitting and theorizing or talking about things, um, trying to find more instances where, um, there’s like opportunity for doing things with the community or sort of, um, yeah, like making spaces more avai- uh, like accessible to people.

Finch: Mm-hmm.

Gamboa: Um, because right now it really is mostly just like a, like a meeting to go to, uh, once a week. Um, and there’s like some stuff like I know during Sex Positivity Week, we sell, like, penis and vulva pops, um, to sort of like promote sex positivity.

Finch: Mm-hmm.

Gamboa: Um, uh, for … In the past they’ve done like, um, things with the One Billion Rising on Valentine’s Day, which is a sort of like, uh, movement around, uh, the world against sexual assault. Um, I’m trying to think. When Project Condom comes around, um, we enter, I think, like, um, I don’t know, it’s like a fashion show where you build a costume out of condoms. Um, I made the one for last year, that was really fun. Um, I guess it’s a more, I think everyone is attempting to, like, sort of reach outside of JMU, but it’s just kind of hard.

Finch:  Right.

(13:56) Gamboa:  I think this is a sort of disconnect or sort of an, um, like a gap in people’s ability to do things more than just around them, because it’s like kind of hard to do that as just students.

Finch: Right. Right. Um, in more broader terms, what do you see as the future for, uh, the, the current Latino population that’s living here?

Gamboa: Um, I don’t know. So there’s a bunch of organizations, right, there is like GOSPUS um, which I think that was the Salvadorian organization, um, that does stuff, um, but I don’t know if there’s like, there’s like, I guess New Bridges Immigration Center, like there’s a lot of, um, a lot of st- a lot, a lot of like different organizations. I don’t know if they like, any one like central goal that anyone is like trying to go towards. Um-

Finch: Right.

Gamboa:  It also like, I guess sort of problems I get, um, if it’s like questions about immigration that’s like sort of necessary to understand that, um, not all Latinx people are immigrants, not all immigrants are Latinx.

Finch: Okay.

(15:12) Gamboa: Um, ’cause they’re sort of like large, so there’s large groups of, um, mostly like, I well, not mostly, that’s like are Mexican, Americans that are like the border across them, right? Um, when, when the, you, like the southern border of the US got drawn, they were people who, it was Mexico, 55 of Mexico got turned into the US. It’s sort of like those people then became American by virtue of where they happened to be living at that time…um, and then, um, also sort of like, yeah, not all immigrants are Latinx and, um, it’s sort of like a problem and when people discuss immigrant issues and like the needs of immigrant or like the needs of immigrant populations, they sort of only ever focus on Latinx issues, because it’s like, yes, there is a lot of, Latin- a large of a large portion of Latinx, of immigrants are Latinx, but, um, there’s a host of issues that other communities, other people in the immigrant commun- in like immigrant communities face that aren’t addressed or like are focused on, because the overarching narrative is of that of like a Latinx immigrant.

Finch: Okay. Uh, this next question is … it starts kind of small but it’ll expand, um-

Gamboa: Mm-hmm.

Finch: So, what are the changes, um, that you currently like see in Harrisonburg and then, second part of the question is much broader, what are the changes you’d like to see, uh, in the nation in general, and you can speak on immigration if you want to, you can speak on any issue, um, that, that you think has affected you or those around you-

Gamboa: Mm-hmm.

Finch: … like that is really important to you.

Gamboa: Yeah. Um, I guess, I don’t know insofar as like Harrisonburg because there’s not, like, Harrisonburg is very much like a pro immigrant city, right?

Finch: Right.

Gamboa: Like those, um, I been, it would have been nice, or like nice to see, I guess, in like the current climate sort of like, things like moves to be more of like a sanctu- like, uh, things like becoming a sanctuary city. Um, and taking effects to do that…um, I think the more pressing issues like the sort of like nationwide, so like how policies change, right, so like, um, ideally, just like abandoning ICE and like border, and border patrol. I think those things are unnecessarily, um, violent and-

Finch: Mm-hmm.

Gamboa: … kill people. Um-

Finch: Right.

Gamboa: … uh, sort of like ending deportations, um, sort of moving away from like citizenship as, um, the sort of barrier to be able to access public goods. So, um, yeah, like open migration sort of things. Um, because at the end of the day like, this is stolen land. It’s, um, I think really hypocritical for like white people to stand here and complain about immigration, because, um, they stole this country. Like, they kill- killed a bunch of people, um, in order to create this, um, this, like, this nation, um, and then, are then hurt because brown people come. Because at the end of the day, like, a bunch of that shit’s just like racism.

Finch: Yeah.

(18:40) Gamboa: Like, people are racist. Like, I think it’s really telling, um, uh, when like recently when South Africa sort of I guess voted to take back land that was taken from, like, Africans by f**kin- colonizers, um, that a bunch of like racist people want, uh, like special attention to be given to, um, white South Africans. It’s like, they only really care about them because they’re white, not because they’re like immigrants or that they even need anything, because at the end of the day the, those are the same people that were, that like, there are the colonizers, they’re the ones that caused all this f**k s**t to happen to people of color, um, around the world. So-

Finch: Yeah.

Gamboa: … and, uh, I guess as a nation like I would love for the US to stop being, I don’t know, I think it’s like unnecessarily an, a violent body that does f**k s**t abroad and domestically, um, to people of color all around the world. Um, I don’t know. I don’t like the US. The US is like-

Finch: There are a lot of problems here.

Gamboa: There are a s**t ton of problems.

Finch: Yeah.

Gamboa: Primarily caused by angry white dudes.

Finch: I would agree with that. Um, so I mean, adding to that, what do you think of the rhetoric, uh, specifically in terms of the, you know, regarding the issue of immigration in the public sphere? I know you sort of touching on this, um, if you want to add to that.

Gamboa: Um, I guess like the rhetoric that’s been used around immigration is sort of like a long sort of like, it was like, has been constructed to be that way, right, so like the sort of, um, the construction of like the criminal immigrant, the criminal immigrant? Yeah, like crimmigration, um, with like the categorization of an illegal immigrant since like the creation of the Chinese Exclusion Act, um, that sort of like creates a…cl- a classification of person that is not deserving of being here. Um, really based on them not having been born here or not coming here the right way…um, so like, sort of moving away from, like, calling people illegal, um, which is just like violence in and of itself, but then also that justifies a bunch of f**k s**t from happening. So like, it’s like Operation Blockade and, or Project Blockade an Operation Hold the Line, sort of like Clinton era, uh, border enforcement that happened along like border cities of San Diego and El Paso, so like in California and Texas, that sort of literally militarized the border and forced people to, um, stop crossing in urban areas and to go enforce it and sort of funnel them to the desert. The sort of ways that the like policymakers, uh, were talking about that as like sort of, um, prevention by deterrence, uh, sort of making it really difficult and dangerous for people to come into the country…uh and then sort of justifying the deaths of those people both, um, in the desert in Mexico, but also, uh, in the US by saying that they’re criminal and that there was just a necessary, that that’s just an inherent risk that they took coming into this country illegally, um, when those are just like artificial constructions because they don’t want brown people to be there or be here.

(22:19) Finch: Right. And adding to that, what, I mean, so out of curiosity, I’d like your opinion, your input on this. Uh, what do you think they should do about the border?

Gamboa: Um, get rid of that s**t-

Finch: Okay.

Gamboa: … like a border is unnecessarily a violent institution. Um, yeah, no, like, I think the open borders, I think like the border fences, like … It is asinine to think that you can do that. It’s sort of misunderstanding of like how the geography and topography works-

Finch: Right.

Gamboa: … um, in the border lands, um, and like the Sou- yeah, in the south, like the south, the southern border of the US. Um, and sort of like the hyper, um, militarization that’s happened to it, like that s**t needs to go, right? Like get rid of border patrol. Um-

Finch: Seems to create a lot more violence.

Gamboa: It really does. It, um, kills a bunch of people, uh, that it doesn’t need to, and shit like getting rid of, or like preventing, there’s like militias, um, just like white dudes that have nothing to do, but like, attack brown people. They go around and round up people that look brown or look undocumented and will turn them in to ICE.

Finch: Mm-hmm.

Gamboa: And they ride around in like SUVs with like AKs, just like militarizing the border on their own accord outside of any sort of like governing body. I think that sort of stuff needs to not happen.

Finch: Okay. And I wouldn’t happen to be well versed on this, but is, does ICE have a large presence here in Harrisonburg?

Gamboa: Um-

Finch: …you can finish eating, don’t rush.

Gamboa: Um, there’s a … Yeah, there’s an ICE office here-

Finch: Okay.

Gamboa: … um, people have been picked up before. Uh, I know in the past there’s been a sort of like, ICE detainer that gets placed on someone so that, um, you can be held more than 24 hours after like being pulled over for something, and it gives, um, ICE the, like, time to be able to, like, check whether or not that person is in the country, um, like as, has like, is authorized to be in the country. Um, so there is that. Um, sometimes I know there’s been raids at, I think that poultry farms, like the poultry, uh, poultry processing plants that are around here. Um, but I personally have not seen like ICE agents. But then again, pigs look the same regardless of what they’re wearing. So.

Finch: Yeah, and they seem to, just from my understanding, from what I have discovered from class and that is, uh, we’ve watched, seems that this country continues to do that and then the people that they need working in these plantations or these, these farms, like these chicken factories and stuff like that happen to be people, uh, you know, some people of Latino descent who are willing to put in a lot more effort than-

Gamboa: Yeah.

Finch: … a lot of people here.

Gamboa: Yeah. I mean, white people don’t want those jobs. Um, they don’t think, they think they’re above it.

Finch: Right.

Gamboa: Um, and don’t do that. And that’s sort of like, it is a job that no one wants to do sort of like leads to exploitation of very vulnerable populations because they don’t-

Finch: Yeah.

Gamboa: … want to. Um, I guess I’m also not super big on a fan of like justifying having immigrants here to do jobs that white people don’t want to.

Finch: Mm-hmm.

(25:46) Gamboa: Um, was I, it’s like I don’t know if it was like post election or pre election, uh, what’s her name, well, Osbourne’s daughter, Kelly, whatever her name was. She was like, “Donald Trump, who’s going to wash your clothes if you deport all the undocu- like all undocumented people, something like that. And it’s just sort of like thinking that that’s the only thing we’re good for is like not the case. Um, like, we are not, we’re not here to be like sec-…second class citizens, not here to, um, do your laundry or pick your fruit or like kill your chickens. Um, so like here to f**king live.

Finch: Yeah.

Gamboa: Um, and sort of only wanting people to be here for those reasons, um, just, again, sort of like adds to the kinds of violences that we experience, because it then sort of … What happens to the people that aren’t willing or aren’t able to work low like, um, low skill jobs, or people that aren’t like the valedictorian from their high school that got into Harvard on a full ride? Right? It’s, there’s sort of like a gap between their deserving-ness, um, to be in the country.

Finch: Right. Yeah. It seems very, uh, seems very dehumanizing to consider immigrants as only, uh, yeah, people of exploitation.

Gamboa: Or a commodity. Yeah.

Finch: It seems like, it is very exploitive and, yeah, it’s awful to see that, uh, seem to be dehumanized very quickly when they come here.

Gamboa: Mm-hmm.

Finch: Um, so what would you like people to know, I mean, from this interview, from this story? Are there any final thoughts, um, any other opinions you want to share?

(27:36) Gamboa: *laughs*. Yeah. Um, I guess like things like the Dream Act are good insofar that, like, they have material benefits for people. But they’re bad insofar that it, again, sort of plays into like, uh, undeserving-ness or like an exceptionalism narrative of immigrants. Like the only people that deserve to be here are not just like the valedictorians or the people that are like working hard or came here of their own, like, not of their own accord, like, or against their will. Like the sort of people, like myself that, like, qualify for DACA stuff, right?  Because those sorts of policies unnecessarily exclude people like our parents who should get to be here, because they worked super f**king hard to be here, um, and didn’t do anything, um, to not be here…other than like be born in a country that wasn’t this one and was honestly probably f**ked up by the US or other white people. Um, they’re like, a long process of colonialization, and like economic exploitation, like … right, so like, sort of moving away from those things and seeing like we are not free until everyone is free, um, and do stuff like that…Also, um, so like sort of, there’s an, I think there’s a, there’s a very strong need to sort of move past dreamer narratives and sort of like, “We are all Dreamers.” No, we are not all Dreamers. Um-

Finch: So what does that new narrative in your mind look like?

Gamboa: I, I just don’t …

Finch: Like the rhetoric of it?

Gamboa: … just like, I … I don’t know. I think that’s like, that’s like super layered-

Finch: Mm-hmm.

Gamboa: … right, ’cause I think it’s a product of, like a long history of colonialization that’s happened in this country. I don’t think that can-

Finch: Right.

(29:24) Gamboa: … I don’t think that necessarily can happen, um, without like fixing a bunch of other issues. Um, moving on from that, I guess it’s also important to like, I think vilify the Democratic Party, they don’t give a shit, they never have, they never will. Um, they didn’t, they don’t want to help us. The only thing they’re doing is seeing potential voters, uh, at the end of the line…um, like a bunch, or like, uh, like the sort of holding a ho- or attempting to hold the country hostage in order, um, in order to get a DACA deal, um and just not actually being able to do anything or not… pressing hard enough.  They only care so much as to like be, do things that are put on paper, right, like Clinton was the one that passed a bunch of border security, or border security legislation in the ’90s. Obama deported a bunch of people, more than, I think like Clinton and Bush combined. Um, loved deporting women and children, um, he’s like a piece of s**t, like, it’s important to understand that no one at, like, I’m very hard pressed to believe that any politician actually cares about immigrants, um, because at the end of the day they don’t really have to, um, and we’re always sort of a population that is like pushed on to the sidelines. It’s like we have to do these things, and then we’ll figure out immigrants. But there is always something that gets pushed to the top of the docket before we’re ever considered in anything. Um, so it’s sort of like fore-fronting our needs and like people have to start caring about people as people, or like thinking it, seeing people as people before like they can do anything. Otherwise we’re just like the people who are going to clean your clothes and pick your, pick your fruit.

Finch: Yeah. It’s very problematic. Anything else you’d like to add?

Gamboa: I don’t think so.

Finch: Okay. All right. Well, this concludes my interview with, uh, Fernando Gamboa. This is William Finch, 5:50, March 12th, 2018.