Interview with Amy Maca

Amy Maca (pictured in the back right) is a first year, Guatemalan-American student at James Madison University. She’s studying Health Sciences on a Pre-Med track with ambitions to go to medical school at Johns Hopkins University. Ultimately, she’s extremely passionate about providing health care those in need.

Journey to the U.S.

In a subversion of immigrant stereotypes, Amy’s physical journey from Guatemala City, Guatemala to Northern Virginia was a plane ride. In 2005, when Amy was 6 years old, her father realized that he had a calling from God to come to the U.S. and serve the Christian Latinx community there. The family had an uncle living in Northern Virginia who expressed that they would be able to stay with him. However, upon arriving in the U.S., those plans fell through and Amy’s family struggled to establish themselves. Fortunately, they were able to find a strong Christian Latinx community in Northern Virginia.

Early Life

Growing up, Amy imagined the U.S. as full of tall, blonde-haired, blue-eyed people that could all go to Disney World. She credits these misconceptions to being a little spoiled by her relatives with toys from the U.S., and depictions of Americans she saw in the media when she was younger. When she first arrived in the U.S., she describes the difficulty she faced assimilating to American culture. Whereas in Guatemala she didn’t face as much pressure to look or even eat a certain way, in the U.S. it seemed like physical appearance dictated morality. Amy mentions the hardships and anxieties she faced public schools in the U.S., citing that middle and high school were especially hard because it felt like she was never able to establish relationships in one place. In terms of life in Guatemala and historic trends of immigration, Amy was largely not directly effected by the Guatemalan Civil War that lasted from 1960-1996. Her parents on the other hand, did grow up during this time of violence and instability.

Life in Harrisonburg

Amy is the first in her family to attend a university and thus faces the pressures that come with such a title. In her interview, she points to the fact that it was especially hard to move away from her family because of how close they are. Despite this, she knew she wanted to attend JMU and was determined to make it happen. Although she’d like to explore a little more of the town, she’s ultimately proud of how far she’s come in getting to JMU. An active member of LSA, Amy loves being able to hang out with her friends during her breaks between studying.

A Message to Her Younger Self

The interview ends with Amy sending a message to her younger self to live freely and openly without the worrying about the criticisms of others. She vividly remembers disliking features of her own body because they weren’t in line with euro-centric beauty standards. Because of this, she wants her younger self to know that it is ok to exist as she is, just do you!

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Interview of Paola Iturbide

The following interview is between myself and Paola Iturbide, who came to Harrisonburg, Virginia from Guadalajara, Mexico. During our interview we discussed her reasoning for coming to the United States, how her experiences have been while here, and what her plans are when she returns to Mexico. I chose to interview Paola, because she is a younger perspective on immigration in the modern world.

INTERVIEW –

Colby Mocarski: [00:00:00] Hi my name is Colby Mocarski. I am a senior at James Madison University and today I will be interviewing Paola Iturbide. And so my first question is can you tell me your age and something about you?

Paola Iturbide: [00:00:16] I’m 25 years old. I was born in San Diego, California. But I moved to Mexico where my parents lived since I was a baby. My parents used to live in Mexico City. They met there. Then they moved to Tijuana. And they decided to just have me in the United States so I can have more opportunities like in the future. And so I do. I was just born there. But live in Mexico all my life and now I live in the States.

Colby Mocarski: [00:00:50] OK so can you tell me some about your childhood or your education?

Paola Iturbide: [00:00:56] My childhood I grew up in Guadalajara, Mexico. I was in a Catholic school all girls school and my friends were middle high class so they had money to give me the location that I needed and I learned English in school.

Colby Mocarski: [00:01:16] So you said that you went to a Catholic school so that was that your religion growing up?

Paola Iturbide: [00:01:22] Yeah. Because a lot of people in Mexico are Catholic. That’s like the main religion. So I grew up Catholic and I’m Catholic and I was raised in a Catholic school.

Colby Mocarski: [00:01:36] So what made you want to come to the United States?

Paola Iturbide: [00:01:41] The first thing is like there’s no jobs in Mexico because I mean I study a career. But I saw a lot of options but they don’t pay you well. You have to have a connection or know someone in the government to have a well-paid job. And also I did and say I did and I study a lot. Also I had to study more to be someone I think I was a little lazy in school. So that also was the problem. If you put a lot of effort in school you can be successful in Mexico. What a lot of people are lazy and that’s why they come to the United States because they think it’s gonna be easier. But I think you have to work at the same level that you will do it in Mexico or in the States.

Colby Mocarski: [00:02:44] What made you choose Harrisonburg when you came to the United States?

Paola Iturbide: [00:02:47] Because my sister and is in Bridgewater and I came with her and it was easier for me because she knew people because coming to United States not knowing anyone it’s difficult it’s difficult living here it’s difficult.

Colby Mocarski: [00:03:02] What what was your first initial reaction of Harrisonburg? Did you like it right away? Did you feel like you fit into the community right away?

Paola Iturbide: [00:03:20] I think it’s warm because I came from a big city so I prefer big cities. I fall in love withD.C. This is like not for me because it’s like living in a ranch but it’s really pretty. Just like for coming on a vacation I mean and people here are nice. I think there’s a little bit of racism racism. I think there is but I mean it’s it’s ok living here. I’m just not like a country girl.

Colby Mocarski: [00:03:53] So how was it finding a job in Harrisonburg?

Paola Iturbide: [00:03:58] It was so easy. That’s the thing of the United States. It’s really easy finding any job well me because I have papers but I don’t know the people that are immigrants. I work for a week in a restaurant in a Mexican restaurant. The name is El Charo they get it. They they just have immigrants and they treat them like slaves. They made them work all day and they paid them nothing. Just the tips from people and I think people that come here as an immigrant it’s not worth it because they are treated like slaves. You have to have papers to be OK here or on have a decent job. If you don’t have papers is horrible. You are surviving, just surviving and maybe you are living a little better. We maybe in Mexico didn’t have a TV and you have a TV here with you. You have to pay it every month and you work here in the States. People that don’t have papers they work like slaves. They live better but they are their slaves.

Colby Mocarski: [00:05:04] So I know you came here also trying to get a certification to be a translator. Is that something that was offered in Mexico too?

Paola Iturbide: [00:05:16] No I just like look in here and I saw that they have the certification. I just did it.

Colby Mocarski: [00:05:25] So what is like your long term goals? Like what jobs do you want? Do You see you staying here, or going back to Mexico full time?

Paola Iturbide: [00:05:35] I mean if I pass the exam to be a translator. My plan my initial plan was to move here and find a better job, because having a job in Five Guys that mean you earn a lot but if you save it and you go back to Mexico. But here things are so expensive that if you want to leave here you have to have a better job than Five Guys cook. You know what my goal to have my certificate and to work in a hospital and get paid minimum 30 dollars per hour so you can be fine you know because if you have like a job you are not going to leave fine. You’re going to just survive. So while not my plan was coming here study that if I pass it I was going to leave close to D.C. because I fell in love with D.C. But now my ex-boyfriend is talking to me again. We’re going to meet each other and if any if what he proposed I’m going back to Mexico because he has a lot of money so I’m gonna have to worry you know. But if he doesn’t propose in New York I won’t. I’m going to come back and work as a translator in the hospital because in here I will have a decent life. And in Mexico I will be a slave just to survive. Like working in an office eight hours to get paid. I don’t know. Two hundred dollars per month. So it’s nothing. Per day I will get paid like 30 bucks.

Colby Mocarski: [00:07:17] So you said you worked at Five Guys did you ever feel like not being an American has affected you in your workplace?

Paola Iturbide: [00:07:27] No I don’t think so because there’s Mexicans there in five days. I mean Spanish speaking people. There are a lot of Spanish speaking people here.

Colby Mocarski: [00:07:39] So do you think that there are Americans that work in five guys that treat you differently because you are aren’t American?

Paola Iturbide: [00:07:48] No.

Colby Mocarski: [00:07:51] So how is Harrisonburg changed since you moved here. Have you seen any big differences or anything?

[00:08:01] Yeah I mean just because I had a car in Mexico and I have lived with my parents I was fine but what I saw the poor people that live in Mexico is a huge difference here because I’m going to put an example. The bosses here have air conditioner and in Mexico people have to wait in lines to get on the bus and they go squish. They have to walk thousands of miles to get to their jobs. And here is more access to all or it’s more accessible to have a car than in Mexico is impossible because of they because of what they get paid in there. In any job because jobs there if you don’t have a connection or if you know someone if you come from a wealthy family you screwed your whole life! Or you are very smart to become a successful doctor or you know in here you’re not that smart you can work two jobs and you are going to survive and live decently we have to be really smart to stay or to, to do it in Mexico.

Colby Mocarski: [00:09:20] So do you feel like there is a community within a community of immigrants in Harrisonburg because for example JMU has over 200 different countries represented within our campus. So do you think there’s a community within a community of immigrant students or people?

Paola Iturbide: [00:09:45] Yeah. There’s a lot of immigrants here because they told me Harrisonburg is the city that you don’t get deported at deported. I don’t know why. So they call their safe place so that’s why immigrants come here because if you don’t have papers you don’t get deported. That’s why there is a huge community of immigrants.

Colby Mocarski: [00:10:07] So do you feel like that you see a lot of other people reaching out like within that smaller community? Like do you feel like there’s a stronger bond between those people?

Paola Iturbide: [00:10:22] People that I have met makes you can with Mexicans, Chinese we Chinese like they don’t get makes a lot I think because of their racisim, and because of the language maybe they find it difficult.

Colby Mocarski: [00:10:39] So what made you end up working for five guys? Like what made you decide to work there?

Paola Iturbide: [00:10:44] Because it was close to my house and I don’t have a car it is a bad job. But I mean I will love to work in other place but it’s like you so hard to move here because their transportation is horrible.

Colby Mocarski: [00:11:02] So do you see yourself like staying with Five Guys? Are you going and try and look for a new job? Or try to start your career as a translator?

Paola Iturbide: [00:11:15] Yes. I just need the translated stuff I’m just doing my exam if I pass it I think I’m not leaving here because he’s boring. But I’m going to maybe move to Charlottesville, if my ex don’t propose.

Colby Mocarski: [00:11:31] So what Changes would you like to see in Harrisoburg in the nation in general as far as looking at immigrants?

Paola Iturbide: [00:11:45] Transportation people that don’t have cars so difficult. You don’t have transportation you don’t have transportation and Saturday and Sunday. It’s horrible.

Colby Mocarski: [00:11:56] But what about like how our nation views immigrants?

Paola Iturbide: [00:12:02] I think it’s really hard for people that immigrants. So I think they don’t have a decent job. If you are an immigrant you’re screwed. You’re going to leave this in but you’re not gonna live, you’re gonna be a slave. So people here treat immigrants that they don’t have papers as slaves they are slaves.

Colby Mocarski: [00:12:33] As a whole like especially under President Trump he’s been like extremely strict with immigration policies. So like how do you feel about our nation. Like right now he’s shown to appeal the 14th Amendment that says that if you are born in the United States you are a citizen even if your parents are not. So you shine to get that reversed. So like how do you feel about the way that our country is moving towards like a no immigrant population?

Paola Iturbide: [00:13:07] I think is fine if you like if their parents are not from here. I think it’s OK. What they are doing. I don’t know why people come here. They should fight in their own countries to be better and other countries should like fight so that their people have better jobs and not leave their countries. So I think America is doing the right thing not having immigrants here.

Colby Mocarski: [00:13:48] So you said that your family still lives in Mexico so what do your parents do to be successful and have a life in Mexico if finding jobs are very difficult?

Paola Iturbide: [00:14:01] Like I said I was not a very studious person. I didn’t study a lot. I’m kind of I like to study both my parents my parents my parents. My dad he’s he’s really smart so he become a lawyer so like I said if you are smart and you study you can be successful anywhere. But most of the time people are lazy. That’s why they are not successful.

Colby Mocarski: [00:14:30] So what jobs do your parents have in Mexico?

Paola Iturbide: [00:14:33] My father is a lawyer and he runs a call center he’s them. Like their manager of all Mexico. Like all the, the country because they have different call centers in different parts of the of their country.

Colby Mocarski: [00:15:01] And what does your mom do?

Paola Iturbide: [00:15:02] My mom right now she doesn’t work.

Colby Mocarski: [00:15:05] So what do you think about the overall view on immigration? Like what do you think about the American perspective of immigration.

Paola Iturbide: [00:15:34] What Americans think of immigration. I think that right now they’re really racist about immigration and I think they should stop immigration and not let people in. If they are were not born in the United States and or if they are born here and their parents are not from here they should not give them the papers because governments on other countries should fight for better education and everything like that.

Colby Mocarski: [00:16:11] So yeah it’s just America was built on immigration because everybody that’s ever really been here immigrated from overseas from Mexico somewhere. So it’s just like how is how are the times so different now where immigration is viewed as a negative thing and we’re trying to cut it off completely versus we were built on immigration. So like why do you think it’s like completely changed?

Paola Iturbide: [00:16:44] Because back in the days there was they were everything was building it was building like everything was not done yet. So all like Mexico was built because European people move to that country. So now that is overpopulated like they should stop immigration because everything’s done right now like people like countries have their own people so they should stop immigration.

Colby Mocarski: [00:17:17] So what do you think you will take for Mexico to, I guess become more like the United States where it has more job opportunities and higher wages and things like that?

Paola Iturbide: [00:17:30] When they when the government stops robbing has a robbing, because people are really really corrupt. That’s the problem that in other countries government is so corrupt and they steal thousands and thousands of dollars they don’t have the values like Americans have. They have honesty values here and Mexicans, they don’t have that because the government steals. The steals their taxes monies taxes money. So that’s why it’s like a circle, like it repeats repeats repeats the same stuff because if they don’t stop from the government, stealing the government give give them more opportunities. People will stop stealing to have a better life. So the government should start not stealing and have their values like America has more Americans have more of honesty. They are more honest. There is not a lot of crimes like in Mexico because of that because it starts from the government that the government steal. They don’t rob. They don’t commit crimes. So is everything. Start start start from the top like from the government.

Colby Mocarski: [00:19:10] So, with not a lot of job opportunities before you moved to the United States even if it was just for a short period of time. What job did you have in Mexico?

Paola Iturbide: [00:19:22] I was just like Secretary.

Colby Mocarski: [00:19:26] What. What did that involve?

Paola Iturbide: [00:19:30] What do you mean?

Colby Mocarski: [00:19:31] Like what were your tasks to do every day?

Paola Iturbide: [00:19:35] Just type things on the computer. Answer the phone. It was awful.

Colby Mocarski: [00:19:42] So how does that compare to like the salary you made in that job. How does that compare to the salary that you’re making in your current job?

Paola Iturbide: [00:19:51] Yeah it’s way like this is a bad job also. Also that’s the difference. Like I had a bad job over there and they pay me like thirty dollars per day. So that’s, no not thirty dollars like twenty dollars per day. And that was an eight hour shift in here a bad job. You get paid per day seventy dollars so that’s a huge amount of difference. That’s the difference. Working in Mexico than working here and in Mexico you work one day and you you can like if you work in that bad job for the whole month you can just buy groceries and that’s it. You don’t like you. You don’t have money to pay rent and to do other stuff in here. If you work a bad job you can’t pay rent. You can have food and you can live decent. That’s the difference between Mexico and the United States that you can live more decently having bad jobs.

Colby Mocarski: [00:20:55] In the span of comparing these two jobs. There is a difference on how far a dollar goes so even though you getting paid less in your other job your money probably went for the men in the United States because things are more expensive here right?

Paola Iturbide: [00:21:13] Yeah. But you can like, but it depends where you go if you to the dollar family store. It’s really cheap. Well it depends on what you do.

Colby Mocarski: [00:21:25] Yeah because the big thing in America right now is buying organic and buying one freshly grown products and going to farmer’s markets which can all be really expensive. So do you see a culture of like Americans spending more. Just because we have more?

Paola Iturbide: [00:21:43] Yeah. I mean here I can see like this consumerism, comsume. How do you say the word? Like you consume a lot like you just want to consume a lot of stuff. It’s a lot of competition. And because these are first world, first world country like they have everything and more so if you were to a store you just want to buy like everything because you can’t like you see everything it’s like you can buy with your credit card. You’re gonna pay it in, I don’t know six months. So it’s consumerism, you you people are buying and buying and stuff that they don’t need.

Colby Mocarski: [00:22:37] Right. So how are things like talking about stores and groceries and that thing like how are they different in the United States than in Mexico? Like do you see a huge difference, are things helps here in one place or another?

Paola Iturbide: [00:22:54] No it’s just like here. I see also the fruit and everything is really I don’t know the word, it is they made their fruit not natural because they don’t know the orange. It doesn’t have seeds. So I think food here is really processed, and in Mexico. No because of their consumerism. So a lot of competition. So people here the food is not healthy like natural like in Mexico and it’s expensive here also.

Colby Mocarski: [00:23:42] So did when you were coming to the United States did you also see it was harder or easier to find somewhere to live to find friends too?

Paola Iturbide: [00:23:54] Oh yeah. It’s really hard here to find like friends and it’s on where to leave also because they ask you for so many stuff like cosigner any of you don’t know anyone is really difficult. And I think people here live more by, they do everything they own and they find people on apps because they are so involved in just their job and just in themselves that they are not like involved in different stuff like in Mexico because here is expense here I’d like to go to our country club and people don’t do that here because it’s expensive just for rich people. The difference in Mexico is like to go to a country club it’s cheap so it’s more like people hang out more. You don’t have to meet someone like community. Yeah because this is cheaper. Like being middle class can go to our country club in here, middle class they cannot do that, people get more and more together. They have more time to do things with their friends. And here everything needs money and work work work work.

Colby Mocarski: [00:25:26] So what would you like when the public is listening to this interview like what is one main thing you want them to take away from your story?

Paola Iturbide: [00:25:38] To think about twice if you don’t have papers to come here you are going to have a better life. You are going to live decent but if you don’t have papers you are going to live like slaves. You are going to work. I work in a restaurant that they hire immigrants and they work from 8:00 in the morning to 10:00 at night and you are going to have a car you’re going to have more things that you’re going to have in Mexico where you are going to work a lot because here things are expensive here, than down in Mexico makes it you can leave poor but you are going to be free. So think twice. Call me here if you don’t have papers. You are not going to be happy. You marry an American or something like that.

Colby Mocarski: [00:26:29] So are also be students listening to the interview. So what do you think they can learn from your story? Like about your immigration experiences your work experiences your living experiences like what’s one main thing you want people and students to learn from your experiences? People are learning about immigration. So as an immigrant like what do you want them to learn from your experience?

Paola Iturbide: [00:27:04] Like I was. I’m not like kind of an immigrant because I have papers but my my friend that I meet here she was she was an immigrant and she didn’t have papers and she lived like hiding because she had to drive with no license. And she always had to be like hiding from the police. She had to work in a Mexican restaurant that they don’t ask for a social security number and anything. And she worked like a slave. So she couldn’t like anything because she didn’t know they, she she couldn’t go out of the country because her their papers were in process to be American citizen. So if you don’t have papers like is no worth it come in here is worth it. Like coming here for a while and then come back just like save money and then come back because here things are really expensive. So if you work like that as an immigrant you are going to earn money but you are going to spend, spend that all and leave just live by the day. The thing to believe you are an immigrant and don’t have papers work a lot and then go back to Mexico or that place that you are and do something there with that money that you earn here because living here is like you’re going to be living good but you are never going to be free.

Colby Mocarski: [00:28:28] Well thank you for this interview. It’s great talking to you and learning about your personal experiences!

Paola Iturbide: [00:28:34] Thank you! Bye!

 

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Honduras to Albemarle: Sofhia

Sofhia Pineda is a 17 year old high school student in Albemarle County, Va who immigrated with her family three years ago from San Pedro Sula, Honduras. This interview outlines her journey in transitioning lives from Honduras to the United States, as well as the climate which brought her family here. Also, she highlights the differences in education from the two countries. This interview helps give perspective on the experiences of people who immigrate while still being in school.

[00:03] my name is Zach Sims and it is October 14th. It’s about 12 in the afternoon and I am here with Sopfia. I’m go ahead and introduce yourself.
[00:14] Hi, I’m Sopfia Pineda.
[00:19] Yeah. So, uh, just general information, like how old are you? Where you live, what school do you go to?
[00:23] Okay, so I’m 17 years old. I go to Albemarle high school. I live in Charlottesville, Virginia.
[00:32] Yeah. Good. No, no, no pressure. This is just, we’re just talking. I can go back and edit if we need to. I can cut stuff out. Don’t worry about it. Alright. So, um, you are a Latino immigrant officially to the United States. So where are you initially from?
[00:50] So I am from some San Pedro Sula around.
[00:53] Ooh, I like that. That’s the way that he said that. Sorry.
[00:57] Um, yeah. Uh, I grew up in a very, what while San Pedro Sula is the most, it is industrial city and Honduras, I grew up there,
[01:17] so. Okay, so let’s talk about Honduras as a whole right now. So, what’s kind of like the situation going on in Honduras? Is it kind of like unrest or people like for the most part kind of alright or like what’s going on in Honduras right now? Because I’m not exactly familiar with that situation there.
[01:38] I’m so right now. Honduras is a very dangerous in some way. We have a lot of problems with gangs and robbery and especially where I lived we had, we were basically surrounded by the areas that were the most like that were attacked more frequently. Yeah. And, and yeah, it was. Well I grew up in a very, like I, I grew up segregated from the world basically. So, I like my childhood basically. I didn’t went out or like I didn’t hang out with friends a lot or I couldn’t go out and just like enjoy my childhood. So, I basically spend my whole time in it for, in like a bedroom with full of toys. And that was it. That was my childhood.
[02:35] Yeah, I know. I’m just. Because I know you, um, your parents are fairly strict. Would you say that was kind of common for people in your area or was really just because your parents were trying to protect you from, from stuff going on?
[02:47] So I guess more generally I feel like Hispanic parents especially, they’re very strict, but my parents kind of just like inherited that cultural thing. Oh, Hispanic community I guess. And um, well my, my whole life I grew up in a school that was Christian and we spoke English. We had every single class in English and we just had like one class in Spanish. Wow. Yeah. Um, so it was, it was basically from my house to school and from my school to my house. So like back and forth, nothing between.

[03:23] Was it a Catholic school?

[03:30] It was not, it was an angelic school, like it’s very similar to a baptist. Yeah. So we had and we had like a church and also in school.
[03:41] Interesting. So how big was the, uh, the town or city that you grew up in?
[03:46] Um, since it was the industrial city ah, in Hondurash, I guess it was very well populated almost. It was very big. Well, it is very big. Yeah.
[04:00] So you’re saying industrial, so there were a lot of factories and stuff around the people worked in to most people work in the factories, um, and kind of like I have some job connected to those companies. I’m kind of like how here in Charlottesville, like so many people work for Uva and like everybody seems like they do something with Uva. Um, was it kind of a similar deal there?
[04:20] Um, I guess where you live, it depends where you stand. It’s like socially I guess. Um, my, well, my family, none of us, we didn’t like grew up in like that kind of environment I guess, but I knew a lot of people that have worked in factories and yeah, it was, even though it was not the capital offender is a list like the second most populated city.
[04:55] Um, more things about Honduras, uh, what are some of the things that, um, you think are distinct? Honduras um kind of in comparison to the other parts of Central America. Um, so like whether it’s like a specific food or a specific tradition that you guys did, like is there something that you would say is specifically very like? Oh yeah, that’s obviously from Honduras.
[05:20] So what I think most people say about Honduras is like, Oh, do you want to know the most dangerous place in the world? Especially where I live and uh, yeah, I mean we are very similar to other countries in Central America. We basically have the same traditions. I guess we have our own food, we produce our own food and we have a do you want me to be specific? Okay. Um, we had food that is very popular, that’s called Ballatas a has beans, cheese, eggs.
[06:05] Then that’s like fried or is it just like a plate of food that you kinda like make up together?
[06:09] So it’s Kinda like a flour tortilla. Yeah, I guess. And you put the beans in there, you can even put chicken if you want to Yeah, it’s very good.
[06:21] All right, cool. So let’s start talking about a little bit of immigration working towards going to the United States. So what would you say were some of the main causes of your family deciding to kind of pick up things and leave?
[06:39] So kind of like going back to like,

wait, hold on, sorry. Not just you. How old were you when you guys moved over here?

14.

  1. All right. So this was three years ago?

Three years ago. Yeah. So like free recently we, uh, so like I think the 23rd of October. No, September. Yeah, September just recently. Just recently. And let’s say so like Kinda like going back. My Dad, he was a lawyer for the government and then my mom was like, what? So um, he handled money for the government and then my mom for eight years, she was like, I guess you will call it a call her, like the superintendent here from like a district in Honduras. So after that and my mom, she was a principal at school at a, like a high school in Honduras, like on the afternoons and then in the morning she was like a regular Spanish teacher. So she had like two jobs and then my dad, he was still working in the same place. And then, uh, we have a very, we have an issue in Honduras, but like politically, uh, so if you’re from one party than if that party wins in the elections than like they take control of everything, you know. So where my dad used to work, he would he say a democratic liberal.
[08:11] Yeah. So what are the names of those two parties? Like the Spanish names, what would you call him in Honduras?
[08:16] Do you want me to say in Spanish? But the Liberal Party liberal team basically. And then the other party is like nationalists. Yeah. Okay. So my dad, uh, my family is very, they’re like, we were very like, uh, I guess integrated into politics. My parents had worked for the government. Exactly. So of dealing with stuff. Yeah, exactly. So I think it was the elections of 2013, 2014 around there that the nationalist, I won the election in injuries and uh, like they. So my dad had a job and like I said, right. And then like they tried everything they could to take him out of the job just because he was not from the same party as they. Uh, okay. So, um, so yeah, that happened. So he got fired. He demanded. Yeah. So he, um, so he, um, so he sued the government and he won the demand. So we kind of had a lot of money and like my dad was in the news and everything. Yeah. So like having a lot of money and also going on the news then people are gonna Think, oh family. Yeah, that family has a lot of money so we have to go and like about them or something.
[09:44] Say that you guys like it’s. Yeah, that’s, that’s like an interesting situation. It’s almost like, not quite like political refuge but like you guys were just gone in a sticky situation in Honduras and it really wouldn’t be great for you to guys to stay there because you know, another party who had control and your dad was very involved with politics and you just won this, the suit against the power of the party. That has a lot of control. That’s interesting. So would you say this is kind of like a, a deep in my maybe personal question? Um, uh, would you say that you guys were any in any like physical danger if you guys had stayed or do were, you know, do you think it was much less of something like that and much more just political thing?
[10:27] I think it was like a little bit of both because if you’re very like involved in politics then other people know that you’re involved in those politics so you kind of have to like take your risk and going out there. So once he was fired, we stayed like that for two years. So because he was a lawyer, so he, he like, he did some little stuff he seemed like he could handle, taking small cases for some people but we couldn’t stay like that.
[10:57] Yeah, all the time. So that’s interesting because a lot of times you just think like, I’m like monetary gain or like money. It’s like,
[11:10] oh no, you’re fine. Oh my God. Yeah, just do you need to know.
[11:24] So like normally you think of a like monetary gain being something you need in order to, to flee the situation and get out of the country, like you have to, you have to gather up as much money as possible and that’s kind of what’s holding you back. But with your guys’ situation, like you just won this lawsuit and all of a sudden you have this abundance of money and that existence of the abundance of money kind of pushed you guys out because like, um, it doesn’t look good for a political opponent to have a lot of money, you know, and kind of like. So That’s interesting. Um, all right. So what did the process, this is kind of like the nitty gritty stuff. What did the process of coming to the United States look like? Were you like, I don’t even know. It did take a long time for you guys in Honduras to be able to say like, let’s get on a plane and go. And then like once you got here, what did it look like? Um, so just give me the details of that, like how you felt, you know, kind of the whole way that you felt through the process is also kind of important.
[12:22] So let’s see. I was, so I was a bath so like I was about to get to go to high school basically when we came here. So we have been talking about that back in Honduras for like a year in something because we had a, my family, like Andrea’s has a family, like coming here for a similar situation. So we thought okay so if we go then we’re going to have like family support are there and everything but we stayed like that for a year. Like are we going to go, are we going to stay in something like that because like my mom, she was very attached to her work I guess. So it was like an like a struggle to convince her basically to like come here.
[13:05] I mean it’s a, it’s a big deal. You’re like picking up your entire life and leaving.
[13:10] Exactly. And I was like 14, oh, I already know what I’m going to do with my life or something like that.
[13:18] Yeah. All right. So, um, did you guys like apply for anything or did you just like get passports and go?
[13:26] So we already had, we already had this visa here, so I guess like an advantage for like for my brother and myself to like having this like fluent English school that spoke English. Yeah, exactly. And because we’ve been here like almost every Christmas we came here to visit. Yeah. So like we have family down in Rockville, Maryland. We also have family in New York and Miami, so we kinda like went all over the place during the holidays and we done, we went back to Honduras but this time we were like okay. So if we traveled with the visa thing, we’re going to go there and we’re going to apply for asylum basically. So that’s like the legal stuff that we did and still in process I guess.
[14:14] Okay. So you guys haven’t officially like gotten the paperwork that you need to be live here, but you guys are kind of just waiting for it to go through processing still.
[14:23] So we have like, we have legal, legal status a year. We don’t have exactly like the asylum, that’s the one that Andrew family just got like recently, probably like a couple of months ago. And so, um, I guess we’re still waiting for that. It’s been like three years and they waited like five years. So we are so like we’re hoping that something, some loss change through this because like there, there had been some news that some are going to be some reforms through immigration crap all over the place. Exactly. And so we are hoping something comes out but um, we like we were approved to like being the process of the asylum so we have our social security and that’s the way we can work in like say for taxes and everything. So yeah.
[15:14] So that’s really helpful that you guys came and visited every year for Christmas because you guys already had your visa is and you didn’t have to wait and stuff like that. Obviously you’re still waiting a lot of processing. Um, all right, that’s good. Um, so transitioning to the United States, you said already that you went to a school that spoke English, so you, your English was already good basically. What was life like coming to the United States and living here? Like what did you just tell me about it? How did you feel about it?
[15:44] So I guess in education it was like a lot different. I guess like teachers here have a lot of like, um, they’re very professional so like you have to have a year degree to a able to go and be able to teach and stuff like that. But backing Andrew is like if you know English and you know math, you’re going to be a teacher. So that’s basically it. So my, I remember like my math teacher back in Honduras, she had recently graduated from high school and then because she was really good at math, oh you’re going to be it teacher, that she was really good but it was not like professional I guess or like not teacher material. And so when we came here like teachers are very prepared for the classes and they know what they’re doing and like, so it was pretty great, like educated, like in the education side I guess. But then like making friends, it was so hard. It was really hard.
[16:48] So um. Okay, let’s go into that a little bit. So what was the best way I think that for you, what was the best way for you to make friends? Was it was like clubs or just like being in class with people and making jokes and saying hey, you know, like we have this thing in common, like, you know, whatever, what was Kinda the best way that you went about making it
[17:06] So I feel like more recently add fell more comfortable, like talking to like being, being open and talking to people. But back then, like two years ago, I didn’t talk to anyone, like I have my cousins with me anywhere in high school, so it was like during lunch we, we just hung out together and it was basically just asked, us, like talking to each other. So like the first few years for like kind of hard because like you, I, I didn’t, I just felt like that language barrier was like keeping me from like speaking up and stuff like that. But um, recently I just, it was just different I guess. Yeah. And I think like ever since Puerto Rico, I just felt like mean just go for it.
[17:58] So your senior year you guys take advantage of it

[17:59] Yeah. And like I’m doing everything I’m doing like clubs, cra the other way. And I just recently started a club called Latin acts. There’s one at Uva and one in Charlottesville. So we decided to open one in Albemarle and yeah, I just feel like, well we talk like 50 percent English, 50 percent Spanish and I don’t know, I just feel like being involved in like the school and given like the Latino community, like a voice in school. It’s, yeah, it’s been pretty good. It was very important.
[18:34] Shoot, had a question. Okay. So kind of like broader like stuff. Um, what were some things that like culturally speaking, coming from Honduras to the United States kind of you found is like shocking or like wow, I really like that’s, you know, almost exactly the same way that we do things in Honduras or like, um, so like what are things that like kind of shocked you, things that were like didn’t really surprise you and kind of just something you found interesting about the switch from Honduras?
[19:06] So we have a very different culture, very, very different. Um, especially for my family. We grew up like my brother and I, we grew up in a very religious family. So there were stuff that we couldn’t deal and stuff or we could do. And what I noticed is that, um, like people here in the US, like even though you’re a Christian or you’re not a Christian, you hang out with your friends when you go eat, you, you go eat with them or go catch a movie or something like that. Exactly. And then in Honduras I couldn’t do any of that. Like if I went out it was probably just with my parents or if I went out with her friends, it was basically they had to be there as well. So very strict.
[19:55] Wow. Okay. Um, so what was one thing that you kind of, or were there any things that you really thought like, hey, that’s kind of similar to or you didn’t really notice or you know, kind of something that just seemed the same.
[20:06] the same?
[20:10] because normally you highlight like, wow, it’s so different. Like we do all these things and under earth and you guys do all these things here. But I guess one thing that I thought might be a good question to ask is like if there’s any way that people act and kind of do things that’s the same, you know,
[20:27] whether it’s like even something as simple as like we eat the same time, you know, or like, um, I dunno, the way that we care about sports is the same even though it’s a different sport or something like that. Do you think there’s anything like that or.
[20:43] I’m like,
[20:46] yeah, probably sports we have a soccer and under is I guess it’s Kinda like, well it’s not a big thing in the US. I guess they like liked football better than they do soccer. But I mean they are very um, I guess like very into sports. A lot of people like we have a lot of like a small groups in hunters or like a football or soccer. I don’t know the difference. I mean I didn’t notice a difference but I don’t know which one you need. Okay. Uh, so we have a lot of, like different groups in Honduras and I feel like people are very inclined to follow a, a, like a certain sport. You didn’t hear a lot in Honduras, like someone playing tennis or golf specially golf. And so yeah, I guess like the, I don’t know is, it doesn’t really relate with my life I guess because yeah, my family, we are not very into sports as well. Not Me

[21:48] did uh, uh, Honduras go to war with El Salvador over like a couple of soccer.
[21:55] Yes, yes, yes. I heard about that. I, I don’t know the whole story, but I did hear about it.
[22:00] I don’t think it was actually about soccer games, but I think
[22:03] I like um, I, I heard about that they were fighting for an island or something like that and that’s like very close to El Salvador and like it’s what it’s like, it’s like right in the middle, in the middle of like El Salvador and Honduras. But what I knew is that Honduras bought, that island, but because it was like covering one side of the tub, either word, they were claiming that it was theirs. So
[22:28] Yeah. So that’s probably more important than like a soccer match, but it Kinda gets hailed at that because that’s really funny. So. Okay, here’s a good question. I’m kind of like with the sense of community in Honduras, I know you were sheltered so you probably didn’t see as much of that, but I’m sure you could probably be at least a little bit familiar with it was, were there any like major differences just between like people in the same neighborhood having, um, like ties or something like, you know, feeling like they’re close and bonded. Whereas like over here, like I don’t know anybody in my neighborhood for the most part, you know, versus like church groups that you had, you know, you feel really bonded. There is a kind of a, the sense of community. Is there anything really different or are harsh that you found in your, in from going there to here?
[23:23] So I, I guess I didn’t really live this, but I know a lot of people, like people from communities and like, uh, from neighborhoods, they knew each other. Like I guess if you didn’t have your keys to get to your home, you just go to your neighbor and stay there for like the afternoon till your parents got there. And it was like, people are very friendly and they’re very open with each other and they create a relationship like that. Uh, I mean I’ve read a lot of stories of like, oh, my neighbor, she’s my best friend or she’s like, I tell her all my secrets and now everything, everything. Right. And I mean, I didn’t grow up like that, but yeah, I, I,
[24:02] you kind of have like a little bit of a special story, I guess in that sense. Yeah. Okay. So what
[24:12] I want to phrase this, um, shoot. I had it in my head. I’m sorry. So, um, okay. So what was it like? I’m just being in the United States. Um, shoot. I lost my train of thought. I had it, I had it right on the tip of my tongue. Hold on, it’s coming back. I’m going to cut this part out. Um. Oh yeah. So coming in, you said that Andrea and her family, so you guys like New People in this area, do they live, do they live in Charlottesville when you guys were back trying to make the decision? Um,
[24:53] yes. So when they came here and they like they spend like one or two weeks in Brotha, Maryland with my other family but then they moved to Charlottesville just because he thought they was going to be better and they started working at a restaurant and then they start to move on from that. It wants to legal stuff starting this or starting to like uh, like take in like taking place in everything. So we were just looking at how they were doing with all, like how they were basically like moving on from like the harsh, like lifestyle or like the difference on like coming to this country now because you’re not doing the same job. Yeah, exactly. Like you have to really start over exactly like it’s basically like starting your whole life over and not, not just for like us as teenagers or young adults, but like for your parents that they’d basically be able to live there. So like her, her mom, like she used to work, like at the same, like basically the same thing that my mom used to work and then she came here and they started working at a restaurant like as a family, but then they started to like progress and like, um, so we kind of saw their example as to like think like a motivation basically to come here and like, like it’s like it’s hard but then you’re going to move on from that. It’s going to get better basically.
[26:15] So there’s um, kind of the theory behind him or that works with immigration and it’s called networking. So it’s kind of like once somebody comes and starts to do it and they can do it, like they don’t necessarily invite, but they influenced the other people that they know back home basically. And it makes it easier for them to come and like, oh, hey, I know this person, here’s a job here, like I can set you up kind of thing. And it just knowing people around makes it easier to live there and get stuff down. Definitely. So like once that first family does come and it’s successful. So like Andrea’s family, which is incredibly difficult to do just in general, um, like that kind of plays along with the theory. Like it just, I’m sure it made the decision a little bit easier knowing that they were here. Um, do you know of any other reasons why you guys came or would come to Charlottesville other than really you guys knew Rudy and his family came here and were successful.
[27:14] So, um, uh, when we came here three years ago, the first year we, we used to live in Rockville, Maryland guys, they look out there for a little while. Yeah. So we stay there longer than they did. But then um, we just thought that opportunities here in Charlottesville were like bigger for my family. And then like my, like under his mother, she got like a job at a preschool and so my mom saw it and saw that and she was like, oh, I think I can do that because my mom has like a greater mass or like a level of education that my, than my aunt. So she was like, oh, so if she did it that way, that it’s possible that I could do it the same way. So that was kinda like one of the things that we inquire, we chose to stay in Charlottesville the longest I guess. Okay.
[28:03] So, um, you guys have been in Charlottesville for two years then, right? So, um, you can answer yes or no for this. I’m not like pressuring you to answering like, oh yeah, but um, can you kind of feel like a sense of ownership and a sense of community with just Charlottesville itself or um, or that kind of in comparison to like back home or even in Rockville, you guys were there for a year? Um, because like certainly I’ve grown up in Charlottesville my entire life and I, I definitely feel a sense of like logging and like, oh yeah, that’s like Charlottesville, that’s where I live. That’s my home city. Do you kind of have any of the same vibes or similar feelings? We Charlottesville or you know, like is that, are you still like, Nah, that’s not really, just kind of where I live.
[28:46] Probably not. I mean that’s perfectly fine now you feel more comfortable when you’re around people that you’ve known your entire life, you know, and like people that speak your same language. So no, probably not, not yet.
[29:00] I mean, yeah, I don’t want to pressure you and be like, Oh, you have to love Charlottesville because like there are plenty of them,
[29:08] especially when the, I guess I’m really trying to like, just like to feel comfortable in a place where it’s not where I grew up basically.
[29:16] Yeah. Okay. That’s a great bridge into my next question. So like you mentioned the Latino Club that you started, what was the name of that again? Latin acts. Yeah. Um, and it kind of like being comfortable and like it’s not your first language and coming in. So how do you think I’m like that, like what, what does that feel like not being comfortable in like your own high school and kind of like your language and things like that and coming into a new country and then kind of after you answered that question, where do you see going forward and how can we make it better for people that are coming in or are comfortable and especially the Latino community. Um, kind of how we can make them feel more comfortable and you know, Kinda open up things so that they are better.
[30:03] So, um, the Lantin acts club was started this year and our goal is to give a voice to those, uh, uh, like Latinas at school and feel that um, they don’t have to go to school just because they have to get their classes done. But because it’s a place where they can gather together and make friends and like hang out and feel comfortable. Even though it’s not a place where you grew up that it’s not a place that you know, that you’ve had, have known like your entire life, you know. So our goal is our goal is to like integrate those people and give them like an environment where they can feel that they belong somewhere. So like event. And so I went on a leadership retreat this past weekend and I feel like I learned a lot from them from that because like they’re trying to get involved more and more people that are not just like American, you know, like when I was there this past weekend, it was just like five people that were in there were not from like from here. So we had I guess so yeah, like four people from Latin America and then another person from Afghanistan. And so what we’re trying to do is to get more people into going through those theater retreat in like feel that they belong somewhere and identified themselves. Like, oh, that’s Albemarle high school. I went there and like, yeah, I made. I made a lot of memories over there. So make them feel like they’re at home basically.
[31:40] Yeah. That’s awesome. So where do you think, what do you think we can do better? Kind of as a society or a Charlottesville or just as teenagers even, um, to make people feel more welcome and feel more at home. Um, and kind of get away from this idea of like, oh, I’m an American because I grew up here, I’m white, I’m redneck, you know, like, I kind of get away from that idea and into like, you know, this is your home, this because this is where you live and you should feel comfortable. How do you, how do you think we can like, do better at that?
[32:12] So I guess like we like the Latino communities and other people that are in nature that didn’t grow up in the US a day. We just want to feel that they belong somewhere when they come here. So I guess like we have to adapt to this new culture so that, uh, um, the weekend, like succeed or like move on from this or like, yeah, make work. Um, we can just integrate everyone, you know, because the, uh, one of my problems was like, I just felt like the school was very segregated so we had like this type of people taking honors or AP classes or this going to people taking like ESL classes or like they’re not allowed to take any other languages because they now have to learn English. So one of the thing, one of the things that I’m doing is that a, like regular classes like personal finance or this require P.E., those required classes that you have to take to like mix them together and create a sense that it’s not segregated and it’s more like diverse. So like include them in everything they do. And uh, this year what we’re doing in Albemarle is not like if we have a spirit week, we’re not just doing posters in English, we’re doing it in Spanish or in another or another languages we have around a school. So like making them feel more like integrated in it plays where I mean they, they didn’t grow up in. So like making them feel welcome.
[33:46] Yeah, that’s awesome. Okay. Um, all right. So I guess just one more big question, I’m kind of reflections that you’ve had as a whole kind of looking at the way that you felt during the whole process and kind of, um, the entirety of, of moving countries entirely different societies, um, kind of what you get from that. What do you get from that? Like, um, what did you learn from that? Was it good, bad, you know, not really that great experience and kind of just self reflections and like final thoughts kind of,
[34:24] um, it was pretty hard I guess when we came here because we didn’t have like a house to stay too, so, um, I dunno, I guess so the first year, like I said before and we stayed with my aunt down in Rockville, Maryland, so we kind of like lived in her basement for a couple of months and then we moved here. Um, but it was not like it was now you’re home. It was, it didn’t feel like home. So yeah, definitely it’s, yeah.
[34:56] Can’t imagine like picking up things and moving to China or something.
[34:59] Yeah. And I mean like we just like, we had a, like a bag with us and that was it. That’s crazy. Yeah. I mean all our stuff, all this stuff that my mom bought recently in Honduras. It was just gone
[35:13] know people say like, oh, it’s such an adventure, but. No, that’s terrifying. Fine. Yeah. Alright, well that’s pretty much all at all. I have, um, that’s 35 minutes of speaking. Thanks for allowing me to do this. I’m going to write a lot of stuff about this and um, yeah, that’s, that’s all I got. Okay.
[35:34] If you need more things, I feel like I like, I’m not telling it not. I mean we can, we can do this again and just like mean nothing. If I think of a good amount of big questions just like write them down, then we can do like a 10 minute supplements or something like that. That will be perfect.

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Crystal Jing Luo

Crystal Jing Luo

My name is Crystal Jing Luo, and I’m currently a second year graduate student studying 20th century American history at the University of Virginia. My research centers on post-war Asian immigration to the US and the history of Asians in America, with a focus on leftist organizing and immigrant entrepreneurship. This class at JMU has been a wonderful opportunity to expand my knowledge and engage with oral history first-hand.

 

When I’m not swimming through coursework, I’m either watching scary movies, zoning out on Twitter — occasionally at the same time — or visiting my family in Manassas, VA.

Interview with Jason Huang

Introduction:

Jason Huang is a small-business owner and long-time resident of Charlottesville, VA, best known for managing the restaurant “Peter Chang China Grill.” Jason left his home in Henan Province, People’s Republic of China for the United States in the early 2000s and worked a variety of jobs upon arriving, including driving tour buses and stocking shelves at Walmart, before settling on the restaurant business.

 

The China that Jason left behind was undergoing rapid economic and social change, resulting in a widening gap between rich and poor, urban and rural. While life in the US was by no means without its difficulties, there was more flexibility for Jason — a working-class man without a college degree who came from a poor province. Coming to the US was also easier for Chinese immigrants in the second half of the 20th century than it had ever been in the past, due to a combination of immigration reform in America and the slow loosening of travel restrictions in the PRC.

 

For all his shifting between different kinds of work, several themes remain constant in Jason’s immigrant story. He has consistently relied on pre-existing networks of friends, family, and fellow entrepreneurs to gain valuable knowledge and resources in order to succeed. He also credits the community in Charlottesville with helping him make a home and a business in the US, even before he opened “Peter Chang,” citing a welcoming atmosphere and a discerning customer base.

 

Jason was also ready to point out the challenges that come with opening a restaurant — particularly a Chinese restaurant — in central Virginia. From finding the proper ingredients to striking the appropriate balance between authenticity and appeasement, not to mention the regular day-to-day trials of operating a business, “the responsibilities don’t stop.”

 

As for life as a Chinese immigrant in Charlottesville, Jason described a community of families and the individuals who by and large keep to themselves: “private and frugal.” However, there are shared spaces of religion that serve to bring people together outside of work and family life. He also hinted at growing ties between locals and the international student population, who form another transnational tie between Chinese people in the US and in the mainland.

0:00 Introduction

 

H: Is it ok if I use my English name here? Jason.

 

L: Of course, no problem at all.

 

H: Jason Huang. And the last name is the same: Huang. We’re in Charlottesville. I came here in… let’s see, ’02, ’03, around Christmas.

 

L: You moved here in Christmas 2013?

 

H: 2003.

 

L: 2003. Ok, so it’s been a while?

 

H: Yes. I’ve more or less been here for fifteen or sixteen years.

 

0:35 Life in China

 

L: Good. So you came from the mainland? Where did you grow up?

 

H: Yes. I grew up in Henan Province.

 

L: I’ve never been to Henan.

 

H: Oh really?

 

L: How long did you stay there? Did you grow up there?

 

H: Yes. I was already more or less forty when I left China.

 

L: Oh, ok. So did you start working in the restaurant industry — the food industry — when you were already in China, or no?

 

H: No. Some of my family members had worked in restaurants, opened some restaurants locally in China… but when I was in China I did other things: worked in the tourism industry, worked as a teacher… Things like that.

 

1:23 Moving to US

 

L: So, in China… So, when did you decide you wanted to work in the restaurant industry? Was it after you came to the United States?

 

H: Yes. Even after I came to the US, I had no immediate plans to work in restaurants, but I worked in my cousin’s restaurant for a while. It must’ve been, oh… half a year in DC, in Alexandria. After half a year, business wasn’t so good, so we went looking for another job and left his restaurant. It just so happened when we started looking for work that we had a friend who worked at the Walmart in Charlottesville. <You know Walmart?>

 

L: Yeah.

 

H: So we got a job there and then the three of us — my wife and I and our daughter — moved to Charlottesville. My wife and I both worked at the Walmart. I worked — not even a whole year, more like seven to eight months, because to be honest with you, it was pretty low-level work. The wages were too low, if I’m being honest. They couldn’t cover all our expenses. So after I quit that job, I went to Los Angeles and learned how to drive the big buses. After I got back from that, I found a job at a Chinese-run tourism company in Washington DC. I worked there for five, six years as a bus driver.

 

2:55 Transitioning to the restaurant industry

 

H: I formally decided to open a restaurant in 2011. Yes, 2011. It just so happened I had a friend, Zhang Pengliang — Peter Chang — left another restaurant — you might know it, “Taste of China?”

 

L: Oh!

 

H: After he left there he didn’t have anywhere to go, but we knew him. So after he and his investor split, he was living in our home for a time. And he said, “You must open a restaurant in Charlottesville!”

 

L: Ah, because the location’s so good?

 

H: Yes. Because this is a good place to do business. Charlottesville is a small town, but don’t let the small population fool you. It’s a place where the community is very open, very vibrant. It’s in the south, sure, but when I look at it… I think it’s classically American. And if you’re doing business here, there’s not as much competition. Look at big cities where there’s lots of Chinese people: New York, Los Angeles. Even Washington DC. There’s so much competition. If, on the other hand, you want to open a… authentic-adjacent, quality, shall we say, restaurant here, there’s definitely going to be good business. So we decided to help him [Chang]. At the time, he didn’t really know how to go about opening his own restaurant. So there were a few of us, a few investors, two others: five in total. So we put this restaurant together. In 2011.

 

L: So at that time, in Charlottesville, was there only one other Chinese restaurant? Or were there others?

 

H: Oh, no. Restaurants? There were many restaurants. In Charlottesville, I checked at the time. There were about twenty to thirty, including take-out places. But more authentic Chinese cuisine, no. I mean the kind of Chinese food Chinese people like to eat, or would eat. There was only Peter Chang’s old restaurant, Taste of China. At the time, it had very good business.

 

L: Very good?

 

H: Very good.

 

5:10 The Chinese community in Charlottesville

 

L: At the time, was there a big Chinese population in Charlottesville?

 

H: Not then, no. I think it had something to do with the University of Virginia not really pulling in a lot of foreigners at the time, especially not Chinese students. Because it was quite conservative.

 

L: Then?

 

H: No, even earlier. By the time we arrived they’d just started coming. But there were very, very few of them. Maybe because it’s a public university so it didn’t want for funds? For whatever reason, it was also quite conservative. And, on top of that, politically speaking — although I personally don’t get involved in this — politically speaking, this school draws a lot of Tibetans and Tibetan scholars. You know about this, right?

 

L: Yes.

 

H: So I think a lot of students from China, and professors, might’ve avoided it for that reason. So there weren’t many Chinese people.

 

L: But there’s more, today?

 

H: Oh, yes. Yes, very much so, these past few years. And it’s very apparent. Just these past three or four years.

 

L: Just the student population, or people who come to settle down?

 

H: Yes, more people have come to settle down as well. Including professors who come to teach at the University, and Chinese families. But speaking on the whole, there’s still not that many. Still, more than before.

 

6:35 Customer demographics

 

L: So do you mostly have Chinese customers, or locals?

 

H: I would say about 80% of our diners are local Americans. About 20% or Chinese.

 

L: Even now?

 

H: Yes, even now. From when we opened until now. Because this restaurant is, for the most part… To a Chinese diner who wants an authentic Chinese experience, it’s not quite it. Because traditional, authentic Chinese cooking uses a lot of oil, and it’s numbing, it’s spicy. Foreigners don’t eat this. But if you only catered to Chinese customers, there’s a limit, because the population here is so small. If you just did that, you couldn’t cover your expenses. In a place where the Chinese community is small, also, there’s frugality, there’s… These families we were talking about don’t really go out to eat in Charlottesville. I know a friend who’s lived in America for twenty years and he’s never gone out to eat. I said, if that’s the case, then who’s money are we making?

 

L: So he just cooks for himself!

 

H: Yes!

 

L: We call that a “house cat.”

 

H: So here, we do Americans’ business.

 

8:00 Doing business in Charlottesville

 

L: Let’s see here… So you mentioned earlier that you liked doing business in Charlottesville. Now you’ve been to DC, you’ve been to Los Angeles — but you think Charlottesville is better than both those places?

 

H: Yes. One reason is that Charlottesville is only two hours away from Washington DC. That’s the first reason. In terms of convenience, it’s not too bad. The other reason is that this city… is not like Lynchburg. Maybe in terms of size, it’s about the same, but Lynchburg is kind of spread out. Charlottesville, all 50 or 60,000 people are more or less in the same place. But the most important reason is that this is a college town. So our shareholders all agreed that culturally speaking, in general, it’s a bit higher. People know how to eat, know what to eat, and aren’t afraid to try new things. They’re willing to give you a chance. So I think that’s very important. If you do poorly, they just won’t come back. They’ll still say it’s delicious, of course, but they won’t come back.

 

L: So your produce — your vegetables, your meat — do you get it locally, or… Where do you get it?

 

H: We get it from a supplier. For the meat products, most of it we get from an American company in Richmond. All the restaurants… I’d bet most Charlottesville restaurants, a lot of the restaurants in this area, get their meat from Tom’s Meat. But for the vegetables we use in Chinese cooking, we have to get it from a Chinese company. Because American suppliers don’t carry it. So we get it from DC, Richmond…

 

L: Is this a big burden? Or have you just accepted it? Because I know a lot of other restaurants, they can get their supplies from local farms, local suppliers.

 

H: Yes, this is a problem. Because lots of things we need, things that Chinese people eat, they aren’t grown locally. There is an American supplier, Standard, but what we want is very specialized. So that’s something that’s a challenge for this small city — it’s a bit out of the way. We need some very special items. So that’s a bit inconvenient.

 

L: So do you have to go get it yourselves? Or do you order it specially?

 

H: We order it specially. So there’s two Chinese groceries here, we ask them to order them for us, but that raises the price. Occasionally we will go ourselves, to DC, and get things ourselves. At least once a week.

 

L: Ok. So let’s go back a little bit…

 

11:00 Comparing labor/work experiences

 

L: You said you went to LA to learn how to drive tour buses, and then you came back here and worked for the tour company, and then you opened the restaurant. So between these two lines of work, is there one you… That you found more fulfilling, or easier to do?

 

H: Between these two jobs… I did both of them for quite a long time, and neither of them I liked very much. But because in China, in terms of economic pressures, cultural pressures, we didn’t have many options. There were economic reasons and then, because of lack of education, we could really only rely on physical labor. Driving, too, is a very physical job. But, on the whole, when I was working for the tour company, I felt that… Well, I was always on the move, always meeting new people. We were mostly going up and down the East Coast. We’d go to Canada… Each trip was about 15 days. Driving to Montreal, to Toronto, to Boston. In the other direction, we’d go to Atlanta. Overall, that job was… pretty easygoing, I’d say. You were always somewhere different. So I feel like I came to understand the US. As for opening a restaurant, it’s just so exhausting. You’re chained to it. We usually open at 10:30 AM, and here we close at 9:30 PM. That’s 11 hours. That’s every day. Even though we might get a two hour break from 3 to 5, if you’re the manager, the responsibilities don’t stop. Even after you close, there’s responsibilities. Restaurants don’t always have big things, but the little things never stop. Every single day! Workers walk out and you’re short on staff; customers <complain>. There’s things with the equipment. Yesterday one of our stoves broke. Every day there’s something! So if you’re going to work with restaurants, just working in one is the best. But opening a restaurant, if you don’t have certain experience, certain physical health… I don’t recommend it to my friends. But if you’re a chef, with skills, who can cook well, it’s a pretty good deal. They make pretty good money. Our chef, he makes $4,000 a month. That’s what he takes home! That’s about the same as the governor of Virginia! Overall, opening a restaurant — if you do it well, if you have good dishes and good produce — and if you put some care into managing it, the money comes pretty quickly. Of course, if you do badly, the money goes pretty quickly too.

 

L: So quickly! My family’s been through that too.

 

H: Absolutely.

 

L: So you were saying when you were in Washington DC, you worked in a restaurant?

 

H: When I first came to the US, for about half a year, yes.

 

L: When you first arrived, ok. But you had no experience running a restaurant. So did you learn from others or did you figure it out yourself?

 

H: I worked with others to open this place. With the kitchen half of it, I wasn’t too worried, because two of my partners were chefs. Even in China, they were well-known chefs with lots of experience. And they had years of experience in America, too. So I wasn’t worried about the food. But for the front, we learned slowly. We put together all our experience and found someone to help us take care of front management. Things like taking care of the staff and so on. The employee you met, she’s from Indonesia, but our first manager was an American young man — Robert. They’re all very smart, very dedicated. We’ve always been very happy with them — everyone works very hard.

 

16:35 Unique difficulties of opening Chinese restaurant

 

L: When you first started, did you meet with any difficulties as a Chinese immigrant, or with opening a Chinese restaurant, that you don’t think American restauranteurs had to worry about?

 

H: Absolutely. As a Chinese person doing business in America, it’s important to understand the American market — very accurately. I know because, even though I’d never opened a restaurant before this one, I tried others afterwards and they didn’t go well — I didn’t judge the environment properly. I tried to open a place in DC with a friend and within a year, it folded. I must’ve lost $100,000… $80,000 dollars. The market, the environment, the flow of commerce, you have to nail that down. That’s why McDonalds does so well: they have a team that just studies this. The other thing is, as Chinese people, as immigrants who don’t speak English, we have to gain some level of cultural understanding. As for what culture is — for us it can be quite specific, as businessmen. I’ll give you an example. We have to read the contract and the lease carefully. If you can’t even pay attention to the lease, or you can’t understand it, you might as well not start. It’s not that I think they’re trying to trick us in the lease. It’s just that you didn’t read it properly. I had a friend in Richmond whose restaurant wasn’t doing so well, and without telling the landlord, he closed it. And afterwards he wanted to sell it. But the landlord told him, “You can ask the landlord in writing for accommodations or to lower the lease, but you can’t just close up shop.” If you close and within ten days, the landlord has no notice, he has the right to come and take everything in your shop. If you do that, you’ve lost all rights to the property. And, for the next couple years, until the end of the lease, he still has to pay rent. So my friend has a lot of problems now. You have to think about… When you do something, you have to pay attention to the language, do it properly. If you can’t do it, you hire someone to help you do it — a lawyer, someone who understands.

 

L: So you got someone to help you?

 

H: Yes, yes, yes. We had someone. One of the investors, he’d been in the US for a while and his English was better. So for all these outside contacts, this gentleman took care of it.

 

19:45 Living in Charlottesville

 

L: So… Let’s see. We’ve talked for a while about business. So you said you’ve been in Charlottesville for many years now. You said you had a daughter? She grew up here?

 

H: Yes! She just, uh, she graduated from the high school and right after that she went to UVA. After she graduated from UVA, she found a local real estate company and started working for them.

 

L: So aside from business, what’s the living environment been like for you?

 

H: Very good. The small city environment here is very good. One thing is, the living costs aren’t high, but the culture, the atmosphere, isn’t low at all! It’s small, so everyone is very warm, very inviting. You can see it on everyone’s faces. The community is good. It’s not like if you’re in New York or DC — if you greet someone, they look at you funny! But not here.

 

L: Yes, the South is different like that.

 

H: Absolutely.

 

L: So living in the US, was it just you who went to LA or did the whole family go?

 

H: No, when I went to LA it was just me. I was only there for a month and after I had the

operating license, I came back.

 

L: So your family has been in Charlottesville the whole time.

 

H: Yes, my wife was working at the Walmart. She worked at Walmart for… five or six years.

 

21:25 Future plans

 

L: Do you anticipate staying here in the future?

 

H: To tell you the truth, we don’t… I don’t think you can run a restaurant for too long. It’s too tiring. You tell people you’re tired and they say, “Well why don’t you hire someone to run things for you?” But hiring someone and managing it yourself is a world apart. We’re such a small operation, once you hire someone — then your margin disappears. All the profit we’re making is scratched out with hard work. In America, a restaurant’s profits are so low. All the rent, the tax, the produce — you carve out that profit where you can. In Charlottesville, in America in general. If there’s an opportunity, I’d like to find a better job. For me, myself, I quite liked working in the tourism industry. I’ve always wanted to get that here in Charlottesville. I wouldn’t have to run to DC for tourists every day, for instance. I could go once a week. I’ve thought about it — but I’ve never acted on it. I just think, if I did it, most of my customers would be Chinese people. And they spend money differently, you know what I mean? I don’t think I want to make their money. But if you want to make Americans’ money, it’s different. I don’t have the language skills… We’ve got two years left on this lease. We’ll renew it for another five years, and then we’ll have to talk to the landlord, have a look at the situation. Because the rent just keeps getting higher. And the market is changing. There’s too much take-out. The number of people coming to dine-in is not the same. It’s not like the past few years. And the other thing is, there’s too many restaurants! Just in this shopping center, this Barracks Road center, even. When we first opened, there were just a few restaurants. Now, just in this mall alone, there are five to six new restaurants. Just think about it. Everyone eats, but there’s probably only about 10,000 customers a day to go around. We’re pretty satisfied with where we’re at — we’ve more or less kept the flow constant. But it’s still going down. Every year, $5,000 less? And meanwhile, costs go up, the rent goes up. So the profit margin shrinks.

 

25:15 Labor

 

L: So, related to this then — and if you don’t want to go into details that’s perfectly fine — when you look for employees, do you look locally?

 

H: When I look for front staff — waiters and such — I look local. But for the kitchen, the cooks, I look outside. Locally there’s not a lot of Chinese cooks. I’ve got to look for specialists, specialist chefs. For the most part we find them through friends — from New York, from LA.

 

L: Do you train them yourselves?

 

H: Oh, of course. Every restaurant is a little different. We find people with experience, but all menus are different, all the ingredients are a little different. We can train them, bring them along a bit. Usually, within a week or two weeks, they can go it alone. What’s more — and you might already know this — real Chinese food isn’t like American cooking. In American cooking, for instance, the sauce is fixed. You just add it on. In Chinese cooking, we call the method “he sa”. Every dish, every time you make it, you make the sauce for it individually. It varies — with the amount, the timing. Adding things earlier, later: it changes the flavor. So when we’re looking for chefs… We can find some locally, and certainly the front staff is all local. But for the kitchen, we generally find people from China.

 

L: So how do you attract these chefs here to Charlottesville?

 

H: We have networks, to be sure. But to be honest, it’s not easy to bring them to this little city. When they hear about this little place…

 

L: Well, compared to New York or Los Angeles!

 

H: It’s true. Because they think this is the boonies. It’s “going down to the countryside.” Many people, they like the big city. But if they’re serious, if they want to make money or get their life in order — and if they’re smart, as opposed to just looking for hustle and bustle — they’re willing to come. They can save money, and there’s nowhere to spend money! And we take care of housing here. In New York, for instance, no one’s getting housing for you. In New York, a chef has only $500 to spend on housing — can’t even find a single room. Here, our pay, compared to that of a similar chef in Los Angeles, is $500 to $600 dollars more a month. You look at DC, a good chef only makes $3,000. Here, they take home $4,000 a month. So: the pluses are you make more money, you spend less money. The downsides are: it’s a bit slow — when they’re on break, they don’t have anywhere to go!

 

L: It’s not that bad!

 

H: Even if they want to spend money, they don’t have anywhere to do it!

 

L: That can be a good thing!

 

30:10 Designing a menu

 

L: So let’s talk about the menu. How did you figure it out, when you first started?

 

H: Ah yes, when we first started. This menu also was a result of the experiences of those two chefs. Because they had lived in the US for many years, they more or less knew what Americans’ tastes were. Between them, we figured out what the more popular dishes were. We also did some trial and error. But when it comes down to it, it’s pretty unique. A lot of other restaurants don’t have our dishes.

 

L: Yes, I’ve noticed that.

 

H: Yes… So, in the US, if you want to do well — and we’re speaking generally here — you have to go with Americans’ tastes. For instance, if you did real authentic Henan food, Americans wouldn’t put up with it. Our friends and I, we’ve always insisted, this isn’t authentic Chinese cuisine. This is… enhanced Chinese cuisine! So many Chinese customers tell us, for instance, “This… This isn’t Shuizhuyu!” And I’ll say, “Well, yes, you’re right, because if we made real Shuizhuyu, you’d eat it, but our American customers wouldn’t. I can’t just make it for you!” So, to go back to your question: this menu is the result of those two chefs learning from other restaurants where they worked, what succeeded there.

 

32:02 Becoming manager of Peter Chang

 

L: Those two original chefs though, they don’t… work here anymore?

 

H: They’re still with us! They’re the big investors — original investors! Those of us still here are their “underlings,” so to speak!

 

L: I see, so you’re the only one who comes in every day and keeps an eye on things.

 

H: Yes, for the past two years, I’ve been the manager. When we first opened — for the first four, five years, it was another investor. He also came to the US to open restaurants. But, recently, he’s getting up there in years, and he’s got his own place, so he left to go take care of his own restaurant. Up until recently as well, to be honest with you, on the weekends the tourism company was very busy and did very well. The money was pretty good. Now, though, the flow of tourism is bigger, it’s more independent — they travel by themselves, not with companies. So the business isn’t as good, and I left the tourism industry. These past few years, I’ve just been here.

 

L: Do you like to cook, yourself?

 

H: Of course! Of course I do. But I don’t cook much at home. Generally, if you run a restaurant, and this includes the chef, when you go home, you don’t want to cook anymore.

 

 

 

34:00 Chinese community in Charlottesville

 

L: Ok, let’s see… What else can we talk about. Ok: Would you say the Chinese population in Charlottesville has a lot of contact? Like would you say there’s a feeling of a community here, or not so much?

 

H: I would say there is, yes. Because there’s a Chinese church here. When we first arrived, there was already a Chinese church, which seemed to be… I should say it was pretty big. I don’t really know… It’s good when there’s a lot of us, but it’s also good when there’s fewer of us. When there’s lots of us, these conflicts pop up. For instance, the church split into two congregations. Then, this year in October, they came back together. Now — here let me check the WeChat group — just in the group, there must be a few hundred people.

 

L: So what’s the story there? Why did the church split, can you tell me?

 

H: Ah, that I can’t tell you.

 

L: Ok, ok… But they got back together again! So it’s alright now.

 

H: Yes! Our first priest, he left to go to Chicago, so right now there’s not really a priest here in Charlottesville. Usually I would say… there’s not too much coming together, probably to do with certain aspects of Chinese culture. But on Fridays, Saturdays, they still have church events. Here, [pointing at phone screen] just in this group there’s over 170 people. And that’s individuals, so that’s not counting their family members. If you count their family members — and most of these are families; there’s not many students in the church — that adds up to about 600, 700 people. If I had to guess, I’d say there’s about 1,000 to 2,000 Chinese people in Charlottesville now.

 

L: One to two thousand?

 

H: Yes, and that’s not including the students. I’m sure there’s many more of those.

 

36:05 Chinese international students in Charlottesville

 

L: Do you think there’s a lot of contact between Chinese international students and the local Chinese community?

 

H: Not a lot, no. But, I will say, the Chinese community here has always wanted to establish some ties to the international students. But really — I think there’s some big cultural differences there. Some people are doing this work, though, I just don’t know what the results are. I’m not sure if I approve of all this, really. But some people, they really want to, through this and that, reach out to these students, expand their social horizons. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But trying to influence people’s mindsets, their attitudes — that I don’t know about.

 

L: You must have a lot of customers who are international students!

 

H: Yes — that 20% of my customers who are Chinese, 15% are international students.

 

L: So these local Chinese families don’t come, just the—

 

H: Yes, Chinese families… They’re very private, pretty frugal. They don’t eat out. Of course, sometimes they’ll have an event or something… But for the most part, they eat out less.

 

L: What’s the evaluation, from these Chinese students?

 

H: Pretty good! They’re very smart. But I think their cultural background is a little different. They need some more time to really absorb the different environment in the United States. They’re new bodies. By the time they’re where you’re at — doing their graduate degrees, their doctorates — they’ve settled. But they’re very smart. I like them very much. For us, as adults, who are working… I mean, back then, in the 80’s, it was very hard to get into college. The atmosphere was very intense and stressful. Now, I hear it’s a little easier. Now almost everyone can go to university! Back then, it really was… And to go overseas, it costs a fortune. They’re here to learn, first and foremost. But I still think they’re a good bunch. Very smart, very polite…

L: Yes, I’ve recently started TA-ing and many of my students are from China and they’re all very capable.

 

H: They’ve still got some of their own differences, it’s true. For some things, when they see

something they don’t understand or can’t get used to, they leap to say something about it. But I think you need to consider something strange, and then formulate your response. Still, they’re young. When we were young I’m sure we couldn’t resist ourselves either. But it’s good to remind them. The earlier you can grow up, the better.

 

 

40:52 Return trips to China and impressions of China today

 

L: Do you still go back to China?

 

H: I do! Every two or three years, we go back.

 

L: So, looking at China today… and the US today… is there one that you’d prefer to live in?

H: Hm… Each has its positives. If I had my way, I’d be able to go back and forth more often. But, of course, with work, and family here, I spend more time here. But whenever I get a chance, it’s good to go see China — because the place is changing so quickly. I will say, Chinese people understand America far more than Americans understand China. China really is developing economically at an incredible rate. Some older Chinese people in America always like to point out where China is still lagging behind the US, but I think in terms of middle classes, there’s not much difference between the US and China. In some ways, I think the US is behind China even. Take healthcare — the US can’t keep up with China, even. Healthcare in the US is just a disaster. The poor, people who need help from the rest of society — you have to look after them. This is a matter of social responsibility. But you can’t disincentivize work! For instance, a lot of our employees, part time employees, ask for fewer hours. I say, “Why don’t you want more hours?” They say, “If I work more hours and make more money, I have to spend money on healthcare. Right now, at my current income, I spend almost nothing on healthcare. But if I even make a few more hundred dollars a month, suddenly I have to spend thousands!” I thought to myself, “Is that how things work here?” So then they say to me, “I’ll take more hours if I don’t have to report it; just give me cash.” And I can’t do that. Of course, if you get really rich — like Mr. Trump, the president, there — with a few billion dollars, these social problems mean nothing to you. Right now, I think if a household makes only $100,000, that can be a bit rough. But between $70 to $250,000 — that should be a comfortable life.

 

Let’s take Charlottesville. You might not even believe this. If you’re a two income household making $70,000, last year — maybe it’s less this year — if you buy Obamacare, the lowest coverage per month is $3,000. But I only make $70,000! And I’m spending $40,000 on healthcare! That just leaves me with $10,000 to $20,000 left. I might as well make less and then spend less on healthcare. It just makes no sense to me. And what’s more, in the US… Because it’s “the United States,” every state is different. Even if you’re just in Virginia, each city is different. You enjoy different privileges. Charlottesville — I did some checking — here, the healthcare costs if you make $100,000 are some of the highest in the country.

 

L: And this is something on your mind, as an employer? Because it’s not just about yourself…

 

H: Of course! Of course it’s on my mind. Lots of employees leave after a certain point. I think many aspects of American society aren’t like other countries — Well, I can’t say it’s unlike China. But a lot of people don’t seem to care about this. There’s some apathy here. There’s no big impulse to change society or politics. They don’t always go to their representatives, they don’t look for ways to make society more rewarding of hard work. You don’t want people to make an effort, you don’t let them make a living — I think that’s a big problem.

 

L: But you seem to be paying attention to all this!

 

H: Well, not particularly. It just blows my mind. You work so hard all year and for what! Maybe in a country like the United States, it’s hard because maybe there aren’t as many poor people. In a developed nation, it’s hard to rustle up the energy or the motivation. The economy, the politics… Sometimes… They say, it’s pretty easy to go from being poor to being middle class. But to go from middle class to being rich? That’s not so easy. Maybe society is just structured this way.

 

 

47:53 A11/A12

 

L: Last subject. As someone who’s lived here for many years, how did you… Last year, with the protests in August downtown, were you here?

 

H: Yes.

 

L: Did you feel like it affected you?

 

H: Well, that weekend… Just speaking for the business, we took a hit. But for myself — I thought this was something left behind in the past. Why are you trying to dig it up again? And something that failed? If it’s in the past, leave it in the past. Some people want to take the statue down. Do you really think taking a statue down is the same thing as erasing history? Or putting up a corrective plaque — how is that erasing history? I don’t think those people had a very developed or democratic mindset. It was just violence. But I think in the end — this city is very liberal, but Albemarle has always been quite conservative. Maybe it’s because American history is so short, on the whole, but there’s a lack fo historical thinking. Or else it’s not very mature historical thinking. How can you try to go back into the past and — even if it’s something that was right — try to go back and revive it? But most of all, I’m against the violence.

 

L: What I’m curious about is, as an immigrant, have you felt unsafe here ever?

 

H: Never. That’s one of the reasons we like it here: the city is small, but it’s open. All us immigrants, we can live together as a community. There’s a large African American population, a large Latino population… Not so many Chinese people. Quite a lot of Indian immigrants! A few Korean immigrants. But just here in our restaurant, I think about 5% of the customers are from India! They enjoy our food, too.

 

L: I think that’s it for now! Thank you.

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