Interview with Vera Javor
Introduction
Although only accounting for around 3.6 percent of the total population in the world, immigrants are the catalyst of progress as they not only embody the spirit of resilience and ambition but are integral part of the development of societies. They offer unique and cultural richness to as well as creating a more globally interconnected society. That being said, their journey is usually met with obstacles and great difficulties in their progress to obtain a better life. I was given the opportunity to interview a survivor of the Holocaust Vera Javor, a woman of great resilience whose fighting spirit still remains intact to this day. I was able to get in contact with Vera through my girlfriend’s mom’s cousin Nikki. Nikki was incredibly helpful in the process of not only helping me communicate with her mom Vera, but also being a part of the Zoom call to help Vera better understand/respond to my questions. Throughout this interview Vera would help give insight into the social aspects of the time, the unique experience of being an immigrant, and the overall impact that being an immigrant has had on her life.
Summary
Vera Javor was born in Slovakia in 1932. She was only around 15 years old when she had to move to Israel to escape persecution from the Nazi party. She would be split from her parents who had chosen to flee and make a new life for themselves in America. Separation at such a young age from your family members can be dramatic, although being as brave and independent as Vera was, she felt liberated to be free from the war going on in Europe. She would then spend the next 4 years in Israel and wouldn’t be reunited with her family until the war had ended. Although she does state that she was a little reluctant to leave Israel as she had fallen in love with the country, her parents needed to her help as they were getting up in age, so she agreed to travel to America to be with them. Vera would call this traveling from country to country typical of the “wandering jew”.
Migration
When Vera left her birth country, she traveled with a group of young people called “Aliyah Hanor” or the youth. She would arrive in Messina, Italy then take a boat to Israel at the Haifa Bay. She stayed at the docks until she was then taken to the kibbutz by a truck. Vera speaks highly of the living conditions of the kibbutz as she lived in a separated youth section that allowed her to work for half a day and receive an education during the other half. When Vera was then needed by her parents, she would then make her journey to America. Although flying by plane had become a novelty at this point in time, as someone without a lot of money, Vera would travel by boat. It was a long and boring two weeks at sea, as Vera put it, that eventually ended up arriving in New Jersey where her mother already had family and an established a place to live. To actually be admitted into the country of both Israel and America, it was first required to have someone vouch and guarantee that you would not be a burden to the state of the country. Vera was lucky enough to not have to worry about this, but a lot of immigrants without a sponsor found it difficult to begin trying to make a new life for themselves.
Integration
Once in America Vera would begin working in a factory during the week and on the weekend, mainly Sunday, she would teach Hebrew at the local synagogue. Vera states that she was content with this and never felt limited in her aspirations as she accepted the life in front of her. She understood that her English at the time was poor and as a result never expected to move high up in the work force. It wasn’t until Vera begin talking to a woman on the bus about night classes offered by Rutgers University on her way to work, did she begin to find a career for herself. She would work and study hard until she eventually graduated with a degree in journalism, at which point she then began working for the newspaper. Vera does also mention how difficult learning the English language was. Prior to this she had known two other languages, but once in America she was confronted with the challenge of learning the most difficult one of all. Her ability to adapt and then pursue a field in which she would face one of her largest obstacles is something that I find brave and speaks volumes about the character of Vera.
Membership
One of the more difficult aspects that immigrants face when arrive is the acceptance they feel from those who were native born in a country. Assimilation into the United States is no different as can be a demanding process for many immigrants as they are which immediately exposed to vastly different lifestyles can have the effect of making it harder for them to integrate. Although in the case Vera and her family, she explains that due to her mom’s sister already living in America and not being of a heavily involved Jewish background that they were actually able assimilate faster than most immigrants. This is because without any other Jewish family living in the area, integration was much easier as there were no other people relatively close by to share and keep the culture and customs alive. This however would become problematic for Vera and her family as those of the Jewish faith/immigrants would become offended by how fast her family was able to assimilate and let go of the past.
When I asked her if she felt “American” or like she “belonged”, Vera responded by mentioning how America is amazing in how diverse it is with most people in the United States having not been born or are decedents of parents not born in America. She says acceptance was not that hard and the only people to ever tell her that she wasn’t “American” enough were older religious people. When I asked if she had ever gone back to Israel and what the experience was like interacted with former friends and relatives. She explained how she received a mixed response because there were those who were upset, she left and those who were curious about life in America.
Conclusion
Vera’s story of hard work paying off is in my eyes the “American Dream” coming into fruition. She not only survived WWII but went on to make a name for herself within America. The entire duration of the interview I was impressed with her mentality of going through such an eventful moment in time. She is a fighter, and never let her situation as an immigrant become a crutch and define how her life would end up. She embodies the spirt and determination that immigrants have and positively shows the possibilities that immigrants can obtain through effort. I find myself so fortunate to have gotten the opportunity to speak with such a strong person, as prior to this project I had not known any immigrants and would have never understood the obstacles and challenges they can face if not for Vera Javor.
Nikki Goodstein: [00:00:00] She’s like 91 and sometimes has some hearing and stuff. So is it okay if I just speak clear? It’s okay. If I help her, then, then we’re good.
Carter Strother: Of course. That’s totally fine. Uh, are you guys ready to start All right. So, uh, I know I sent you the questions before, but if you had any time, I’ll just start off with, uh, some introductions. Would you please introduce yourself?
Vera Javor: My name is Vera Javor.
Carter Strother: And, um, where’d you immigrate from?
Vera Javor: I immigrated from Israel.
Carter Strother: Uh, what age were you when you immigrated?
Nikki Goodstein: Nineteen.
Vera Javor: I was, uh Nineteen. Nineteen.
Carter Strother: Nineteen. Well, like, how did you immigrate? And what was that process like?
Nikki Goodstein: How
did you get, how did you get here?
Vera Javor: [00:01:00] Uh, I came by boat, uh, even though, you know, flying was not the novelty anymore, but it was cheaper. And I was at, at sea for two weeks. Very boring.
Carter Strother: Yeah. Uh, would you care to dive into that experience a little bit or?
Nikki Goodstein: Talk about what it was like when you were on the boat.
Vera Javor: Um, it was a mixed group of people who were emigrating to come to the United States. And their, um, aspirations were kind of mixed somewhere. It was really tight. You know, everybody was very, uh, concerned, and it was a mixed kind of a thing. It wasn’t like, haha, happy. They knew, yeah, you know.
Carter Strother: Yeah. Uh, do you, uh, so for what reason were you immigrating? Uh, your family immigrating to?
Vera Javor: The reason I was emigrating from Israel because my parents were here, whom I haven’t [00:02:00] seen since, you know, World War II, end of World War II, and they had a difficult time here. You know, you don’t start a new life when you are an older person.
Carter Strother: Yeah.
Vera Javor: Yeah.
Carter Strother: So, yeah, where, where did you immigrate to in America?
Vera Javor: Uh, to New Jersey,
Carter Strother: New Jersey. Oh, nice. So yeah, I assume you mentioned, uh, you so you came and joined your family here. And so How was, how was that process of joining your family, like, uh, being separated from them, coming back to them, and then just
Vera Javor: Yeah, I, I, I understand what you’re trying to, um, I was kind of concerned, and, and I, uh, didn’t know what to expect. I, I, frankly, I wasn’t prepared. I couldn’t speak the language. So there were a lot of drawbacks.
Carter Strother: Could you actually, uh, talk to me a little bit about the, uh, the language? How was, [00:03:00] like, the language barrier, how was adapting to America because of language?
Vera Javor: Um, it’s, it was very difficult and I found English to be quite difficult to adjust to because it’s not phonetic. You know, most languages are.
Carter Strother: No, it’s a very, it’s a very confusing language.
Nikki Goodstein: It is.
Carter Strother: So, you said, uh, you came here when you were 19? Yes. Uh, so I, I assumed, uh, you already finished schooling?
Nikki Goodstein: What about school? How did,
Vera Javor: um, I didn’t go to school here. I was lucky enough, uh, I got a job in a factory, minimum wage, brava. And on the way, on a bus, uh, somebody told me that they are taking classes at nights, at night, at the University of Rutgers, a local place. And I said, how, how do you do that? And he explained to me, so I [00:04:00] tried myself and I took some courses, uh, starting at Rutgers. Yes.
Nikki Goodstein: What else?
Vera Javor: Oh, and I finished, I graduated with a degree in journalism and, um, yeah, and, um, worked for a newspaper for a while and also was teaching Hebrew at the local synagogue on weekends.
Carter Strother: Wow, that’s very impressive. Wow. Uh, was there a reason for you, uh, you immigrating just besides, uh,
Vera Javor: yes, my parents, they came to the United States rather than coming to Israel and aging was difficult. You don’t start a new life at that age.
Nikki Goodstein: Yeah. Wanted you with them.
Vera Javor: Yes. I haven’t seen them, you know, during the war, so it was a. Kind of a must to come.
Carter Strother: That makes sense. Yeah. Um, so like you mentioned a little bit like the difficulty in language. How was adjusting to America? Like did you feel welcomed or was there [00:05:00] like a bit of a disconnect between the fact you were an immigrant and now you had to live in a whole different world?
Vera Javor: Uh, I, I didn’t find it difficult to adjust because I got a job and I was doing my thing. Um, I did find it kind of odd by the Jewish community, especially the elder ones. Because when I went to meet a group and they started to speak to me Yiddish, I don’t speak Yiddish. So one of the persons there said, then you’re not Jewish. And I found it kind of funny. But I guess. Yiddish was an accepted language in Central Europe, in Eastern Europe, mostly.
Nikki Goodstein: Carter, just so you know, my mom first was, sorry, stick my face in here, was first, she was actually born in, um, in Europe, and then went to Israel, and then came to the United States, so. She kind of has [00:06:00] two homelands, sort of, so to speak.
Carter Strother: Oh, wow.
Nikki Goodstein: Yeah. So, yeah. So she lived in, um, in Slovakia till she was about, uh, 14 or 15 years old, uh, and survived the Holocaust and then went to Israel for three or four years. Um, and kind of was there from, from 15 to age 19 and then came to the United States. So it’s a little, yeah, she’s got two things.
Carter Strother: That is an incredible story. Wow.
Vera Javor: It’s typical of called the wandering Jew.
Carter Strother: Uh, so, um, do you think, like, being an immigrant has affected your life in any way? Uh, just, I mean, you could talk about, like, previously traveling and, like, adjusting to different areas. But, specifically, do you want to talk about America as well? Like, coming from Israel or Europe to, uh, America?
Vera Javor: I never, I didn’t give it much thought, being, um, [00:07:00] of that generation. Um, my people, my family and myself and people that I knew around me. were moving around constantly. It was a way of life. So, uh, I can’t say how I felt about it. I thought that was normal.
Carter Strother: Yeah, and it didn’t like, uh, you talked about how you were able to get a job. Uh, I assume being an immigrant didn’t really affect your job career if you were able to. Then, uh, get into journalism, and then teach at a synagogue.
Vera Javor: Um, I was teaching Hebrew on weekend, on Saturday and Sunday, mostly Sunday. And during the week I was working in a factory for a minimum wage.
Nikki Goodstein: So you, so do you think, do you think that affected you though that you weren’t able to get like a, a bigger job?
Carter Strother: Yeah. Did you feel like limited because you were an immigrant and your job [00:08:00] prospects?
Vera Javor: No, I, I didn’t feel limited. I was aware, you know, uh, that, uh, being at the stage where I was in, I couldn’t speak English too well. It was, It was okay with me. I don’t think it affected, you know.
Nikki Goodstein: Well, that’s because you went on and went to school, too.
Vera Javor: Yeah, I, I, uh, while I took the bus to work, there was a woman there, yeah, who was taking courses at the local college, at university. And I said, gee, that’s nice. How do you get in there? And she helped me. And I started,
Nikki Goodstein: how hard was it to get into this to take classes, though? What did you have?
Vera Javor: It was it was the evening courses that the Rutgers University offered.
Nikki Goodstein: But what did you have to show them that you let you in because you didn’t have any?
Vera Javor: No, I just had to sign.
Nikki Goodstein: But you didn’t have a high school degree. You didn’t
Vera Javor: What I told them I came from another country and
Carter Strother: They were they were just okay with it.[00:09:00]
Vera Javor: It was, yeah, it was an evening school. It wasn’t like a lot of people took courses and didn’t graduate. I just happened to keep going until I did. That’s all.
Nikki Goodstein: I think actually they require, she had to take some proficiency stuff, but she doesn’t remember, but she’s told me that before that you had to, you had to do some.
Vera Javor: Well, I had to prove that I had attended school before and that I am able to read and write, you know, basics. Needs. Yeah, that was a must.
Carter Strother: Um, so just a question about, uh, like, how does America, like, differ from Europe or where you were born or Israel, like, compared to, like, cultures or norms or, like, just the overall living experience?
Vera Javor: Yeah, well, I think America, United States is much more diverse and [00:10:00] not speaking English wasn’t like a terrible thing. A lot of people in the United States are working, you know, minimum wage jobs aren’t proficient in English. It’s not uncommon. Yeah. So you felt comfortable. Yeah, I didn’t. Right.
Carter Strother: That’s nice then. Um, yeah. So do you feel like you belong as an American? Like, would you consider
Nikki Goodstein: you may have just froze up.
Carter Strother: Can you hear me?
Nikki Goodstein: You froze for a second. Start again.
Vera Javor: Say it again.
Carter Strother: Do you feel like you belong as American? Like an American? Like, do you feel like you’ve assimilated into America?
Vera Javor: Uh, I think, I think it’s an amazing thing in the United States being that it’s a such a diversified place. Where, uh, most people are either not [00:11:00] born here or are descendants of parents who were not born. So it’s not, uh, unusual. Uh, the acceptance was, you know, not difficult. And
Nikki Goodstein: do you feel like you belong here?
Vera Javor: Um, yes, except to some older people who especially religious people who didn’t think that I was American enough, whatever that that that they meant, I don’t know, to this day.
Carter Strother: So do you have any like certain attitudes or like feelings towards America either before you came or like after now that you’ve been here?
Vera Javor: Um, America was always considered, especially because my parents, my mother had family here, there was a place you come to, um, to seek a better life. And that was a very accepted, you know, notion to [00:12:00] most people. And those that either couldn’t because they didn’t, first of all, you couldn’t come to the United States, if someone didn’t guarantee That you’re not going to be a burden of the state of the country.
Carter Strother: Oh, that’s interesting.
Vera Javor: So that was a must. And that kind of was a deterrent because, uh, it’s like, you know, uh, always having to come, uh, on somebody’s, uh.
Nikki Goodstein: That somebody has to sponsor you?
Vera Javor: Sponsor, yes. Yeah.
Nikki Goodstein: So you’re not a, they, you have to rely on somebody else?
Vera Javor: Right. Because, yeah, that’s what, yeah, yeah. I mean, in fact, most people didn’t. They came here and they worked hard and. They made their own way.
Carter Strother: Um, did you ever travel back, uh, to Israel or, uh, like in Europe?
Vera Javor: Yes. Yeah, I went back.
Carter Strother: How was that? What was that experience like, like engaging with people now that you became an American?
Vera Javor: [00:13:00] It was a mixed group. Some didn’t like that I left, you know, and some had a lot of questions about how is it, you know, just to get to know what’s what it’s like like here. Otherwise, I don’t think there was a problem.
Carter Strother: No, no, that’s good.
Nikki Goodstein: I can tell you a funny story that we, I’ve traveled with my mom to Israel and she speaks English fairly fluently. She also speaks Hebrew and other languages fluently. And the minute we got off the plane, she started talking Hebrew and I was, I don’t speak Hebrew like as if she never left. And it was like, uh, what? I don’t even know who you are. Yeah. It was like a switch turned on. It’s like, okay, I’m in Israel, I’m talking Hebrew. And that was it. And, and. So, um,
Vera Javor: I didn’t even realize it, but it’s just a normal
Carter Strother: thing to do. you just put yourself right back into, [00:14:00] like, how you live for so long.
Nikki Goodstein: Yeah, put yourself right back. Yeah.
Vera Javor: Yeah, I would probably do the same now. It’s just, you know, because I speak Hebrew. And, you know, we are in a different country.
Carter Strother: Uh, do you, like, do you miss not living in Israel? Or, like, do you, like, have, like, that experience of, like, are you glad, like, that you ended up coming to America?
Nikki Goodstein: Are you glad? Are you glad you came to America? Do you miss Israel?
Vera Javor: I miss Israel. I didn’t come here because I had no place else to go. I came here because of my parents. So America is just a place I had to come and I made a go of it. That’s all the best I could.
Carter Strother: Yeah, that’s what you do. Uh, would you consider, like, you’ve talked about this a little bit, like, how you’ve already, like, felt as it was just the standard because you weren’t an immigrant. Do you consider your experience, uh, to be [00:15:00] common among other immigrants in America?
Vera Javor: I think just generally, um, from my observation, America being a country of immigrants to begin with, I wasn’t, uh, I didn’t feel not accepted. Um, and I think that helped for me to just move on and do my own thing and, you know, I learned the language. English is not the easiest language to learn, by the way.
Carter Strother: I heard that, like, from, like, a lot of people, like, online to say that. Yeah. It’s hard.
Vera Javor: I was amazed when somebody said, well, spelling. Spelling. What do you mean? You write it and you say it the way you write it. But English isn’t like that.
Carter Strother: Um, I think that’s all the questions I wrote down. But, I mean, if you have, like, any life, like, uh, moments [00:16:00] throughout your process of being an immigrant that, like, comes to mind, I would love to hear that.
Nikki Goodstein: Is there anything that happened during?
Vera Javor: Uh, I, uh, it depends, uh, what group. There are some people who came to this country. and became naturalized and learned English and moved on. And, uh, there were some that, um, kept their old traditions from European, where they came from. And, um, I found those more difficult to communicate with, uh, because, uh, being a Jew, I don’t have the same background like some of the majority of Jews in the United States. So I remember, uh, I don’t know, there was somebody that I met, and they started, they They were told that I came from Israel. The person started to speak to me in Yiddish, which is a broken kind of [00:17:00] German. And I told the person, sorry, I don’t speak that language. And then I heard the person say to the next person next to them that she’s not Jewish.
Nikki Goodstein: I think, I think when, when my mom came here after the war and being in Israel for a few years, the, the local Jewish community was. Um, they, they were very insular.
Carter Strother: Oh, yeah. Before, not to cut you off, this is just, uh, detail. So, when you, like, moved to America, like, where your parents were, would you consider, like, that community to be, like, a Jewish community? Or would you consider, like Is that
Nikki Goodstein: where Anu and Apu live? Were they part of a Jewish community?
Carter Strother: Like, would there be, like, a lot of, like, Jewish individuals living together in, like, a set area? Or was it just a lot of immigrants?
Vera Javor: No. No. My parents lived, uh, separate from that. Uh, my mother’s sister that nobody was that religious nor belong to any Jewish group. [00:18:00] I know they belong to a temple. They went to the synagogue on holidays, but that’s about it. They,
Nikki Goodstein: yeah, my, so they, they were not like in what you’re thinking of, like in a whole neighborhood of people, not, not, not like that at all, which was actually problematic in the sense, some of the stories I heard because they weren’t. Um, they were kind of forced to assimilate faster because they weren’t around other people. But then those other people then were also offended at the time. They were offended that they, that my mother’s family assimilated more quickly and let go of the past.
Carter Strother: Oh, that makes sense.
Nikki Goodstein: Yeah, then they did. Right. So they, they kind of moved on faster,
Vera Javor: frankly, to this day. I don’t, I’m not. Historically, I don’t know why so many Jews cling to Yiddish, which is to me a broken German.
Nikki Goodstein: Okay. And I could do without enough.
Vera Javor: Okay. [00:19:00] Sorry.
Carter Strother: You’re totally good. Okay.
Nikki Goodstein: Okay. All right. Can you tell, tell the story so that Carter has one good story about when you came on the, you want to talk, Carter, do you want to hear about the trip from Europe to Israel and then Israel to the United States? Cause that’s kind of a good story. Can you talk about your story? When you left Europe, when you left Europe, how did you leave Europe? And get to Israel.
Vera Javor: Uh, I went, I left Europe with a group of young people who were, what they called then, um, Aliyat Hanor, which is a youth of Noor, you know, migrated, most of them because of the Holocaust, and we just left Europe. We didn’t want to be there anymore. And we arrived, we stayed in Italy. Um, in Messina, uh, I don’t know if you know Italy at the very [00:20:00] bottom of the bottom of the thing and we waited for a boat. Uh, to take us to Israel. We waited for a long time.
Nikki Goodstein: Yeah. Yeah. And then what happened?
Vera Javor: And we arrived at the Bay of Haifa. They were set on the docks until the kibbutz that received us because you couldn’t come to Israel at that time unless somebody guaranteed that you’re not going to be the burden. Which is similar to, you know. Yeah. So we waited for the kibbutz truck to come and pick us up at the um, Docs. Yeah.
Nikki Goodstein: And then, then you’ve got, then what happened when you got to the kibbutz? And what did, uh,
Vera Javor: the kibbutz had a wonderful system, uh, what they called Hanor, the youth was, uh, we were lived separately in the barracks and we worked half a day and we went to school half a day where we learned Hebrew and other subjects.
Carter Strother: And how old were you [00:21:00] when you, when that happened? How old were you?
Nikki Goodstein: You were 14,
Vera Javor: 14 or 15. Yeah.
Carter Strother: Was that, like, traumatic on you, uh, like, leaving Europe at such a young age?
Vera Javor: Yeah, I understand. No, it wasn’t. We were very, um, you know, what happened during World War II. To get out of Europe was a wonderful thing. Yeah, we couldn’t wait. to get out of there.
Nikki Goodstein: All right. So then when you left Israel,
Vera Javor: yeah, it was a reluctant leave, uh, because I really loved living there, but, uh, my parents were here and, you know, being separated, uh, during the war and before it was sort of an obligation. for me to be with them.
Carter Strother: Yeah, that makes sense.
Nikki Goodstein: So I just wanted to make sure you got both stories. [00:22:00] Try to think if there’s anything else immigration wise that she can share that would be, um, of, of interest.
Carter Strother: But I mean, you’ve answered so many good questions or good responses to my questions. Uh, you really helped me like understand like, and yeah. This interview was amazing. Thank you so much.
Vera Javor: Thank you. I’m glad that I was some help to you.
Nikki Goodstein: Good luck with your class. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry about the dog.
Carter Strother: Don’t worry. Don’t worry.
Vera Javor: He was, yeah.
He behaved most of the time. Thanks.
Nikki Goodstein: Thanks Carter.
Vera Javor: Good luck to you.
Carter Strother: so much. You guys have a great rest of your night.
Nikki Goodstein: You too. Take care. Bye bye.
Vera Javor: Bye.
Carter Strother: Bye.
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