From Gambia to the United States

Davin Spessert: [00:00:00] This is an in person recorded interview with
Amadou Sala. The interview was conducted by Davin Spesser in person on
November 22nd at about 4 p. m. So first off, thank you for meeting with me,
Amadou. I want to start off with a few questions for you.
Omadou Sallah: Okay, glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
Davin Spessert: No problem. So what made you decide to come to the
Omadou Sallah: United States?
Um, initially my dad My parents wanted to, uh, have a better life, so, um, they
came to the United States seeking that, you know, to work and to, you know,
just live a better life compared to the life we were living in, uh, in Gambia.
Davin Spessert: Right, so you came from Gambia. Tell me a little bit more
Omadou Sallah: about that. Um, well, Gambia is a West African country.
[00:01:00] It’s, um, it’s all the way west. It’s surrounded by Senegal. And it’s a
small little country. Um, I think the population is max a couple million. Um, but
yeah, it’s pretty small. It’s pretty, it’s all the way west of Africa. And, it’s uh, it’s
interesting. So what was
Davin Spessert: it like
Omadou Sallah: over there? Um, it’s um, it’s not very developed.
It’s um, a lot of people, you know, I mean, if you ever take a, take a look at, like,
online pictures of our capital, Evangel, it’s a lot of houses with, uh, sheet metal
roofs and, and it’s, it, you can tell, it’s just very under, underdeveloped,
compared to the United States.
Davin Spessert: Right, I understand. And uh, how did you end up getting over
to the United States?
Omadou Sallah: Um, so, [00:02:00] what happened was, uh, my dad’s, one of
my dad’s brothers. Um, they do, you know, some of them do different things,
some of them are doctors, some of them do business. Um, some of them are, are
politicians, so they travel a lot, and um, Uh, when I was very young, my, uh, my
uncle, he got us, uh, he got my dad a, uh, work visa.
My dad applied for a work visa, and he got a work visa. And, um, we all had to
get visas. And, he, um, And we just, you know, took a flight and moved over.
And
Davin Spessert: how did you all end up paying for, for the immigration here to
the United States? What do you mean? So how did you get, uh, together the
resources to be able to, to travel here?
Omadou Sallah: Oh, um, it was mostly money that my, my, my parents
worked for. Um, my uncles helped us out a little bit. Um, yeah. So
Davin Spessert: through savings and [00:03:00] family connections? Yep.
Alright, and would you say there is anything that pushed you away from your
Omadou Sallah: old country? Um, just the, the inconsistency of, you know, of
life. It’s, you know, over there it’s very hard to find a job.
It’s very hard to have a stable life unless you already have a lot of money. And,
you know, government over there is kind of corrupt. And, um, it’s just, you
know. If you’re not already rich, it’s not a place you
want
Davin Spessert: to be. So just, would you say the uncertainty with life over
there in Gambia? Yeah, definitely.
And would you say there was something specifically that pulled you into the
United States versus, uh, you know, another
Omadou Sallah: country? Well, I mean, when you think about it from a, from a
world perception, the United States, the United States of America is, um, it’s,
[00:04:00] that’s what everybody, Around the world, you know, dreams for, you
know, especially people from, from, um, third world countries.
You know, that’s, that’s where dreams happen. That’s where people, you know,
make their name, make their lives and, you know, they call it the land of
opportunity for a reason, I suppose.
Davin Spessert: Right. So just sort of the, uh, the legend of the American
Omadou Sallah: dream, huh? Would you say? Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Davin Spessert: And you said something about you had some family members
over here.
So you knew there were some, uh, You knew some people over here in the
United
Omadou Sallah: States? Oh yeah, we have, um, We had some family that, you
know, Has traveled over here, um, A couple of my uncles, some of my cousins
have been born here, you know, Um, A couple of my uncles, you know, they
started their lives here, You know, they’ve just been here for a while, and My
parents didn’t quite Um, start, I mean, we moved over here when I was very
[00:05:00] young, so, I’m not, I’m more acclimated to the United States
compared to here, but, um, you know, it’s, we have a lot of family, we have
people in, we have family in Europe, we have family in the U.
S., you know, in different parts of the world, so. So did you always know
English? Yeah, um. Gambia was a British, well, it was colonized by the British,
so everybody, you know, gotta learn English.
Davin Spessert: So is there another language that
Omadou Sallah: they speak over there? Um, well, specifically, my family
speak, uh, Swolof, it’s a tribal language.
Davin Spessert: Alright and what was your plan in coming to the United
Omadou Sallah: States? Um, well, I was a kid, so I didn’t necessarily really
have a plan, but I could say for my parents, um, You know, their plan was to,
you know, come to the United States, you know, seeking work, you know,
seeking a [00:06:00] better life and, um, try to set a foundation, uh, to where,
you know, me and my, my siblings can be successful.
And, um, you know, they worked and, um, you know, they helped put us
through, through college and, and me and my siblings and, you know, just to, to
have a different life than we would have had. In, back in, uh, in Gambia. Right,
so
Davin Spessert: just provide opportunity and, and set up the next generation.
Yes, most definitely. So what kind of job did you get first?
Omadou Sallah: My first job was, um, Out of high school, I worked as a
package handler for FedEx. And tell me a little bit more about that job. Uh, it
was, it was not the best. Um, it was very hard work, you know, and um, it paid
pretty decent for what it was, but it was, you know, it was hard work [00:07:00]
and, uh, you know, people would get hurt on the job and, you know, it’s moving
a lot of like heavy stuff around and loading trailers and, you know, it was just,
uh, it was just a lot.
Davin Spessert: So what was it like getting used to the, the social norms here
working in the United States? Um,
So what was it like getting used to United States social norms at work?
Omadou Sallah: Um, at work, um, I don’t know, it’s a little different because,
um, at least just witnessing what I witnessed back in Gambia, it was, um, You
don’t, you don’t have such a variety of available jobs [00:08:00] and, um,
especially jobs that are, you know, willing to pay you so much money and also
give you, you know, health benefits and, and all this different stuff.
Um, it was different, but you know, I can speak to more as a, as a kid going to
school and stuff. Um, it was just different acclimating to. American society is
just, you know, in school, school was a lot more, um,
I mean, it had its aspects of similarities, but it was more,
I guess it’s more refined, I guess, to say the word here than it was there, you
know, um, I guess that’s all I
Davin Spessert: have to say on that. Right. Right. So, like, outside of, uh.
Outside of work, just in school and going around to the stores [00:09:00] and
shopping and just living general day to day life. How did people generally react
to you being different from them?
Omadou Sallah: In the U. S. or in Canada? Here
Davin Spessert: in the United States.
Omadou Sallah: Um, I don’t know. It’s just, in the U. S. it’s just, it’s like, there’s
a, there’s a, There’s a lot of, a large variety of people, of different people, you
know, different races, different backgrounds, different socioeconomic status,
you know what I mean? It’s, it’s, you know, it’s hard to boil down one, you
know, you can’t, you can’t put a particular label on it, but, you know, everybody
reacts different, you know what I mean?
I, I, coming to the United States, I went to a school that was, you know,
predominantly white kids. You know, it was just, I was looked, I was looked
upon a little different, you know, I was, you know, I had a different skin color,
and, um, you know, kids didn’t react to [00:10:00] me the same as, you know,
their other friends that had the same skin color, but, I don’t know, it was just, I, I
never always noticed it that much, but, you know, it was just the, the little
things, I guess.
Right, so,
Davin Spessert: Um, what kind of people did you start relationships and
friendships with and start talking to in school and work and throughout life
coming here in the United States? Were they similar to you?
Omadou Sallah: Um, you know, not really, you know. It was, um, it was, I
mean it had its similarities and it had its differences, you know what I mean?
When we came to the United States, um, There’s just, there’s just a lot of things
that were, that were different that we had never experienced, you know what I
mean? In Gambia, we don’t have, you know, we don’t have chain restaurants
and stuff like that. That, that people would, would think, you know, we don’t
have McDonald’s, we don’t have Burger King, we don’t have all that stuff.
So when [00:11:00] I came to the U. S. and I was like, you know, people would
talk about that stuff and I’m like, you know, what’s that? And, you know, they’d
look at me like a little funny and be like, you know, are you serious? Are you
kidding me right now? And I’m like, no, we don’t have any of that stuff. In, in,
in Gambia.
We don’t have any of that stuff so, It’s just, The cultural differences in those
aspects, like you know, Certain things like, Um, I don’t know.
Davin Spessert: Um, Well we can move on. Okay. Um, so, How did you kind
of fit in or find your place here in America?
Omadou Sallah: I don’t know, I guess I kind of just like started to, act like what
I was, like the people I was surrounded by.
You know what I mean? I took up a lot of their habits, a lot of the things that I
saw them do, a lot of things I, the way I saw ’em talk, you know what I mean? If
you notice, I don’t really have much of an accent, but I, I guess when I came
here as a kid, I had a, I had a [00:12:00] heavy accent, but, you know, it really
went away just being around like, you know, kids with that didn’t have, you
know, the same accent as me.
I just kind of picked it up. I just kind of, um, uh, adopted it in my, in, you know,
just the, the way I do things. Right. And thinking
Davin Spessert: more, um, from a geography standpoint, why did you pick this
part of the United States to come to?
Omadou Sallah: Um, you know, I don’t know. I think, I think widely it had to
do with, you know, where a lot of our family was placed.
Like I said, we have a lot of family that lives in Maryland, a couple in Virginia.
Um, a couple in the D. C. area, and, I mean, there’s other family members that
are, you know, a lot further away, but we just have, like, we have a nice, um,
uh, there’s a nice concentration of family members that live around here, and I
think that was one of the big things that my parents took into account when
moving to the United [00:13:00] States was, um, was having, like, you know,
people that we knew around us.
Davin Spessert: Right, that totally makes sense.
So, what were some of the, uh, experiences that were part of your, uh, your race
and heritage that have influenced
Omadou Sallah: your life? Um, Experiences that were part of my heritage? I
mean, speaking like, you know Like your ethnicity? Yeah, yeah. Um, I mean,
there’s, there’s a cultural difference, we do stuff different, you know, in our
culture.
Um, when we go to like family gatherings, you know, we eat a lot of cultural
food. Um, that, you know, you wouldn’t see, uh, in the United, in like any
traditional United States cuisine, you know what I mean? Um, you know, we
like to dance, we listen to different kind of music. So just like different
[00:14:00] things like that, I guess, um, have influenced me.
You know, sometimes, you know, when we go to gatherings, you know, we
wear like, um, a certain kind of clothes. And it’s just like, you know, it’s, it’s
different, it’s different, and that’s, and I guess that’s had an effect on my life and,
and, you know, I, I guess I bring that to all the, the people that I, I interact with
on a, on a daily basis, I guess.
Different things that they’ve never experienced as well. Right.
Davin Spessert: So from like a, uh, a self, a self, um, perception, um, outlook,
do you feel American, like you belong in the United States.
Omadou Sallah: Well, I don’t have, I don’t think I have had any reason to not
feel American. I think, you know, I’ve, since I’ve come here, you know what I
mean, I’ve made so many friends and acquaintances and, you know, built so
many relationships that, you know, and, and [00:15:00] this, honestly, this is
where I’ve spent the bulk of my life at this point.
Um, so I don’t really have any reason to, to not feel American, you know, I got
my, you know, my, my, you got our citizenship, even though I was born in a
different country, you know, we went through the, the, the right steps to get,
um, me and my whole family, our citizenship, and, you know, it’s, I don’t, I
don’t think, I don’t feel like I have any reason to not feel, uh, American.
Davin Spessert: That’s great to hear Amadou. Do you ever take trips back?
Omadou Sallah: Um, very rarely. Honestly, it’s just I think it’s had a lot has to
do with the grindiness of life here. You know, always working to keep up to
maintain what you have. And I think it just cuts into time to go back to Gambia.
And it’s just like, I don’t know, me personally.[00:16:00]
I, I don’t, I mean it’s nice to see, you know, family members and, and stuff like
that, but you know, I think in my opinion just being here is, you know, a lot
better and I, I don’t enjoy going back to Gambia as much.
Well
Davin Spessert: that’s great to hear that you fully assimilated and are really, uh,
identify as American. Um, do you talk to any family outside of the United
Omadou Sallah: States? Yeah, yeah, we have, um, like we said, we have, um,
family members back in Gambia. We have family members, you know, in other
continents and other countries.
And, um, we connect with, uh, with pretty, I mean, a lot, as much as we can, we
connect. You know, we use, um, we call, we use apps like WhatsApp, and we
text and whatnot. And we try to stay in contact as much as possible.
Davin Spessert: So, how do [00:17:00] you feel about the United States
compared to your home country?
Omadou Sallah: The United States is, you know, as I was saying in the
beginning of our interview, um, Gambia is very, very underdeveloped.
Gambia is very, there’s a lot of things about it that are primitive, so to speak.
And Um, there’s just a lot more opportunity in the United States, you know what
I mean? There’s, there’s more things to experience, in my opinion. I mean, you
know, if, and as I, all this also takes into account what I was saying earlier,
unless you’re, you know, born into a, to a wealthy family that, um, you know,
has money, your life is going to be, you know, very different than it would,
than, than you, than you could make here in the United States.
And um, I just think, I [00:18:00] think that’s the big difference in, you know,
Gambia and the United States is just, just how developed everything is, how,
you know, different people’s outlook on life is, you know, it’s less of a, I mean,
everybody, obviously everybody, um, seeks to, to, you know, to survive, but,
you know, our, your priorities are very different.
Right,
Davin Spessert: I totally understand. How do you feel about, uh, United States
society?
Omadou Sallah: I don’t know, I just think it’s, um,
it’s, in terms of what? Just
Davin Spessert: a general overlook, like how do you feel about how, um,
society in the United States goes about and their opinions and, um, their views
on, on life and, and just society
Omadou Sallah: itself? I don’t know. Everybody has, you know, there’s,
there’s, everybody has their different [00:19:00] take. Everybody has their
unique perspective and, you know, um, I don’t know.
I could say one of the biggest things, one of the biggest, um, differences that I
notice about, um, uh, American people and, and Gambian people is their, their,
Care and dedication to, you know, government and, um, you know, what’s
going on in the government and they always, everybody, you know, wants to
know what’s going on and, and everybody could like reads up on things and,
and votes and all this stuff with, you know, the democratic process and it’s just
like, you don’t see very much of that in Gambia because, um, like I was saying
earlier, there’s a lot of corruption there in the government and, You know, you
see the same or similar individuals getting voted into office over and over and
over again.
And, you know, there’s, [00:20:00] um, I don’t know, society is just, I don’t
know, it’s more, it seems like there’s more progress here than there is there.
Davin Spessert: So, being someone that took the time and the steps to come
here legally and go through the process and do things the right way, what’s your
opinion on current immigration policy?
Omadou Sallah: Um, I think, my, my, personally, personally, I don’t think a
country thrives on, you know, just letting a bunch of people come in and not be
able to obtain, um, their, their citizenship legally. You know, if you look at
other countries in, in Europe and stuff like that, um, a lot of them, you know,
heavily restrict, um, they heavily restrict, uh, immigration.
They heavily, they even have a lot of [00:21:00] restrictions on, you know,
bringing in refugees from of, of war. You know, even as messed up as it can be,
you know? Um. Um, I don’t think a country can thrive on that and I think, um,
it’s important for people and I understand a lot of people try to flee their, their
different countries for, for different reasons and to seek a better life and
America seems to be the hub for that opportunity, but I think it’s important for
people to, you know, go do, do what they have to do and go through the work
and, and, you know, go through the process of legally obtaining Their, their,
their citizenship and I, I think that’s important because, you know, I, I, my
parents did that and, and we did that and I think that’s what makes it, I think
that’s what makes it more legitimate, I guess, for, you
Davin Spessert: know, it’s, it’s important I think.
Right, I totally [00:22:00] agree with you on this. So now looking back on
things, um, would you do anything differently regarding your immigration
process and what you decided to do in coming here?
Omadou Sallah: Not really. Um, I don’t, I wouldn’t think, think to do anything
differently. I think, um, one of the big things is, um, I don’t know, at least for
my family we had some connections.
And I don’t know if that makes it like harder for other people as opposed to
some, but um, I don’t think I would do anything differently.
Davin Spessert: And what are some of the most notable cultural differences
between here
and
Omadou Sallah: Gambia? Um,
the food is one big thing that’s very different. Um, I don’t know, there’s just a lot
of, like, like, [00:23:00] there’s a very large variety of different things to eat
here, and there’s, uh, I wouldn’t say it’s, like, limited necessarily, but there’s a
strict, um, regime of things that we stick to eating. Over there, and it’s just like,
you know, you come here and there’s like so many different things, so many
restaurants to go to, we don’t have that.
Um, and other things culturally, I don’t know. Um,
I don’t know. Just the outlook people have on life is, is different. I guess it’s
more, you know, positive here. You know, people, you know. They realize that
they have the opportunity, they can really do whatever they put their mind to,
and um, I think that’s a big difference too.
How
Davin Spessert: do you feel that not being white as an immigrant has
Omadou Sallah: shaped your life? [00:24:00] Um, I don’t know. I think, I think
it’s thickened my skin a lot. Because, you know, coming to the United States,
like I actually mentioned earlier that I went to a school with. You know, just
being teased and stuff, it just really got me, um, it made me get some thicker
skin and, and to not cry about things that don’t necessarily matter and, and, you
know, stand up for myself and, and stuff like that.
So I think, I think it’s a good thing in the end.
Davin Spessert: Well, I’d say it definitely does matter and I’m sorry you had to
go through that, Amadou. Yeah. Do you, do you feel like you were always
welcome here in the United States growing up?
Omadou Sallah: Um, for the most part, yeah, for the most part. Other than, you
know, like I said, being teased in school for a little bit, you know, ’cause I had
an accent then.
And, um, I don’t know, just stuff like that. But for the most [00:25:00] part, I
feel felt pretty accepted. I always had, you know, friends. I always had, um,
people that, you know, got along with and. Yeah.
Davin Spessert: Right. And, uh, what would you say is the best part about
Omadou Sallah: being American? Um, just the opportunities that you have.
The, you know, everything that’s widely available to you as a, as a, as an
American citizen.
Um, you know, you can, I, I mentioned this earlier, but there’s just a different,
like there’s just, people prioritize different things in life and it just. It makes, it
makes, it makes, I, I don’t know,
Davin Spessert: I don’t know. Well, I mean, I’d definitely say that freedom and
opportunity are two of the greatest things that are available to us in this country,
for sure.
Agreed, agreed. Um, regarding [00:26:00] immigration in general, do you think
society needs to change?
Omadou Sallah: Um, U. S. society, yeah, I think. I think it’s not necessarily a
good thing to be just like letting in mass, um, you know, mass copious amounts
of people in, into a country when, you know, there’s only so much. I mean, the
United States is a huge, it’s like a huge country, you know, and there’s a, there’s
a lot of land to be filled, but it’s just, I think that, you know, there’s got to be
more, it’s got to be monitored more.
It’s got to be looked at a lot closer. Because I think it’s important for people to,
to come, to, to have people immigrating here that want to contribute to society
and want to, you know, make America, uh, a good place to be, you know, and
not, not otherwise.
Davin Spessert: Right. Just really, uh, contribute to [00:27:00] society and just
strive to.
To put in work, right? Yeah. Um, is there anything else you would like to add to
anything we’ve already
Omadou Sallah: discussed? I don’t know. We’ve discussed a lot. Um, I don’t
know. It’s just, like I said, you know, being an immigrant, you know, coming
here as a, from a young age, there’s just some things that I’ve had to acclimate,
acclimate myself to, but I think in the end it’s all been a positive experience and,
you know, I love being an American and.
You know, I, um, love, love United States.
Davin Spessert: Alrighty, well that’s all I’ve got for, uh, for questions. So, um, I
thank you for coming to meet me today. And, uh, I really appreciate your time.
Thank you. Thanks for having me.