Germany to the United States an Immigrant Journey

Tor: [00:00:00] All right. So what is your name and where were you born?

Jutta Bauman: Okay. My name is Jutta Elza Maria Baumann and I was born Balser in a little town in Northern Germany called Plau in the state of Mecklenburg in 1944.

Tor: And so, uh, when did you come to the United States from Germany?

Jutta Bauman: I, uh, came here as an adult. In 1966.

Tor: And so before coming to the U S did you have residency in any other countries?

Jutta Bauman: Actually, I did live in the United States for four years, uh, with my father’s household, because my father was a German diplomat. This [00:01:00] is when I was. younger. I was eight when I came here and I was 12 when I left. So I also lived in Japan and I lived in Africa as part of his, my father’s household.

Tor: And so apart from your brief time living there, had you been to the U S like visiting or like during vacations or anything like that? Or is it

Jutta Bauman: no, no, no.

Tor: And so are, are both of your parents from Germany or

Jutta Bauman: yes. And so they were, they’ve passed away, but yes, they were.

Tor: So what was your experience like growing up in germany?

Jutta Bauman: Well, it was after the war, it wasn’t very pleasant, I suppose. I, there was a lot of illness and a lot of poverty and a lot of substandard housing. And so it was not the best, but then I came here. [00:02:00] And of course I lived here in the fifties when life was very, very. Uh, comfortable and, uh, I got used to it rather quickly, at the time.

Tor: But you didn’t have a hard time adjusting to life?

Jutta Bauman: No, did not. Very nice. Um, but that was of course, before I came here as an adult and as an immigrant. I did I was not here as an immigrant when I was a child, though. I suppose some of my experiences do mirror the experiences of immigrants who came to the country in the 1950s from. What was then still pretty much, um, destroyed Europe. Yeah, I came here in 52. So not much had been rebuilt at that point.

Tor: Do you think that your childhood would have been different if you had come to the U. S. as a child versus Living in Germany as a child in terms of [00:03:00] there’d be a lot of differences there.

Jutta Bauman: Oh Sure. Yeah. I mean I was born in the middle of the war Yes, sure

Tor: Did other members of your family come to the U. S. with you? Or were you basically coming to the U. S. kind of on your own?

Jutta Bauman: Well, the first time, when I came here as a child, I came with my mother and father. And my father was coming here to work and he was only here for four years. Then we left again.

Tor: But when you came in as an adult, you were on your own.

Jutta Bauman: When I came here as an adult, I actually came as the wife of an American citizen. My husband and I got married in Germany in 1965.

Tor: So did you and your husband meet in a, so you, you met in Germany?

Jutta Bauman: No, no, we met in Africa, actually, because he was in the Peace Corps. And I was, as I mentioned before, part of my [00:04:00] parents household, uh, when my father was scheduled, or was, excuse me, when my father was stationed in Malawi, which was then a new country in East Central Africa.

Tor: So in terms of becoming a U. S. citizen, you had it relatively easy, considering that you were married to a A U. S. citizen. Is that the case?

Jutta Bauman: Yeah, there were lots of things to fill out. Uh, several medical exams. Uh, I had to, uh, swear allegiance. I had to swear that I would not attempt to overthrow the government. I even had to swear that I wouldn’t open a brothel. There were other things I don’t recall, but anyway, what they were trying to do, of course, was to make sure that I wouldn’t come into this country and commit a crime. But they’re, they’re pretty strict about that. And I’m sure they still are from [00:05:00] what I’ve heard.

Tor: Oh, definitely. So in, when you came, when you did come to the U. S., um, with your husband, were you at that point a U. S. citizen when you arrived, or did you have?

Jutta Bauman: No, no, no, no, no, not at all. In fact, uh, Every year for, let’s see, I came here in 66 and I, for 10 years, actually every year I had to sign in with, usually you could do it at the post office, but there was a place where you were, um, registered aliens, which is what I was. I had to sign in and, uh, you know, show where they were living and that they hadn’t committed any crimes and so forth. So that was an annual event. And you had a certificate that was your certificate of, uh, entry. And this was rather interesting. It was, um, something they issued to you [00:06:00] and they said, now don’t lose this, have this on your person at all times. But it was this rather large certificate with a picture on it. And, you know, saying that I was legally in the United States. Uh, but they said that if you lose it, there’s nothing we can do, you know, your. That’s it. You’re lost. It was terrifying. And I remember at one point, Fred and I, we were living in Minnesota. This is my husband. We were living in Minnesota at the time. We drove to the Canadian border with friends. It was a car full of young adults. And the people at the border said, Is anyone here? That was not born in the United States and stupid me. I said, yes, it was, that was a terrible mistake because I had to get out of the car and everybody in the car was going, Oh no. You know, and I didn’t have that. A piece of paper with me [00:07:00] and I it took forever. They finally Said well, you know, we’ll give you a pass for a day as long as you don’t stay in canada for more than a day It was really pretty awful So I learned my lesson that you know, you just don’t go anywhere. So it’s a rather I don’t know It’s it’s a strange system. Anyway they they put a lot of uh Regulations in your path so that you might trip up at any moment At least that was what I felt. But then I finally became a citizen and that was another process in itself. That is not an easy thing to do, even if you’re married to an American. After five years. You become eligible for citizenship, which I didn’t choose to do at the time. There really was no reason to. I had the jobs I had didn’t require citizenship and I just didn’t feel like dealing with it. But when I finally did make [00:08:00] the application, I made the application and I took a whole year. Nobody had gotten back to me. So I actually had to go to my congressman was wife. I have happened to be a friend of mine. Her, his name was Ira Leshner. And I said, look, Can you talk to Ira about this? Because, uh, you know, nothing’s happening and I just don’t get it. So the next day I get a phone call. This is, uh, this is one of the lawyers at the immigration office. And we have a, have a, uh, a, uh, what do you call it? A meeting date for you. No. And so I went there. It was amazing. You know, I mean, it’s really, it’s not. It’s all based on somebody slapping somebody else’s back, I guess, in the end. When I got there, I discovered that the reason they hadn’t gotten back to me was that they couldn’t find my photographs. So I said, Well, that does. That seems [00:09:00] awfully strange. I said, Do you have any place where you might it might be might have fallen off the application because I’m sure it was on there. So they brought me a shoebox full of Photographs, uh, obviously that had fallen off the applications and lo and behold, there was my picture. And then we proceeded. And, you know, then I, a week, two weeks later, I took my interview and then I became a citizen within, you know, a couple of weeks, but that’s kind of the. what people who, you know, when I speak good English, I had a husband who was an American and still it was that difficult to get through and I had to pull strings and I just, my heart goes out to anybody who tries to become an American citizen because it’s really. Very, very hard. [00:10:00] And many, uh, as we all know, many applicants have to, you know, get legal help and have to have a sponsor to take them. And so it’s a hard process anyway, enough of that.

Tor: It seems like in many ways, it’s similar to like a, like a probation sort of thing. Like if you, you get out of prison.

Jutta Bauman: You’re considered guilty until proven innocent.

Tor: What would you say was like the hardest part of leaving Germany in terms of like adjustments?

Jutta Bauman: Adjustments. Well, I guess the hardest thing for me, and this, I don’t know if you want to keep this in your interview or not. The hardest thing for me was that when I was in Germany, I was part of a student community and kind of left leaning, a little bit anti American, I’ll admit that, because of course [00:11:00] this was at the height of the first escalations during the Vietnam War. So, And, uh, so when I got here, I felt like, and, and I was also, uh, really a non, non practicing Christian and I got here and this, the, the whole business of, well, a, the church and two, the, um, the, well, the commitment to serving in your, in the armed forces was such an important part of the culture. And I found that very difficult to deal with actually. That’s one of the reasons I’ve waited so long, quite frankly, to become an American citizen. Because I kept thinking, I don’t know if I really want to be part of this country. That’s, there you go. As I said, you don’t have to use that. Oh, great. Uh, what was the most surprising thing about the U. S. for you? In terms of like, kind of like, changes.[00:12:00]

Tor: Kind of the opposite of the last question. Yeah, um. Well, what was most surprising?

Jutta Bauman: Like, I knew a lot, I was surprised that, um, racism was still such a, a, was still alive to such an extent because I didn’t expect that, uh, after reading about the marches and reading, you know, certainly not in the North and not in the Midwest, but it was, and, uh, I, I just felt that was. Difficult thing. That was surprising. I didn’t expect it. And it kind of threw me for a loop.

Tor: So would you say compared to Germany, like Germany in terms of that sort of culture, they were much more progressive in terms of like, or was it?

Jutta Bauman: Hey, I mean, I, you know, I had, I had Africans at my wedding. I was in a, in a discussion [00:13:00] group with African students at the university of Cologne, where we would meet, you know, and discuss. And I mean, it was not, I had an African American friend who, well, actually he, he warned me and I should have known who, uh, was in Europe because he didn’t want to be, uh, cast in a role, you know, he said, if I’m in the States, I’m just, I have to be there as an African American. And I don’t want to do that. I just, I just want to be a student and be left alone. So, you know, I, I mean, there were. I guess that’s, and when I got here, I found a society that was very much divided, and that surprised me.

Tor: Um, how did coming to the U. S. affect your relationships with people you knew in Germany? Did you stay in contact pretty well? Did any of them [00:14:00] kind of like, cut you off because you became a U. S. citizen?

Jutta Bauman: No, no, nobody cut me off, but you know, there’s a distance that comes up, and some of it was certainly political. Uh, and of course, Germany, as you know, has a very troubled history and has a very troubled reputation, and I was always very critical of Germany, and so when I remember my first visit back to Germany, someone said, well, uh, you know, how does it feel to be an American? In the sense, like, you know, America is, is such a, such a reactionary place, a warmongering place. And I, I said, well, I feel like I’ve gone from the frying pan into the fire, meaning that, you know, having been a German was bad enough, and now I was an American . Does that make sense?

Tor: Yeah, definitely.

Jutta Bauman: So anyway, and I got, it got really mad at me. I mean, they just said, How could you say that? How could you? [00:15:00] And I said, Well, we think about anyway, those people I did not. Uh, I didn’t. Um, what’s the word? I didn’t follow up on that friendship. I just let that slide. So, yeah.

Tor: So when you moved to the U. S. What sort of family did you still have in Germany? Like what sort of connections did you still have there? Was it just friends or did you have like a lot of family?

Jutta Bauman: Yeah. Well, my parents were still in Africa and my sister. And, uh, then, uh, I had, you know, cousins and a grandmother, two grandmothers, I guess, two, two grandmothers and, uh, yeah, no, I had family and, and we went back. Pretty regularly, because my, my father was very generous and would buy us tickets to come, because we couldn’t have afforded that ourselves. Uh, but, so, we took the kids over, you [00:16:00] know, every few years and stayed in touch, that was nice. And my parents eventually did go back to Germany, and then eventually also were stationed in other countries, so.

Tor: But you had to wait until you had basically gotten through that, becoming a U. S. citizen process to do any of that, is that right?

Jutta Bauman: Mm hmm. No, actually, because I was a registered alien. See, once you’re a registered alien, you can travel. I did not have because I was not those people that are under those restrictions are people that have come in here illegally and that in order to

Tor: Yeah, how does that work?

Jutta Bauman: Gosh, you know, don’t quote me. I actually I don’t remember exactly what the what the rules are. But that kind of rule did not apply to me because I was as you know, as a permanently registered alien, I could travel back and forth. In fact, I could have just continued to [00:17:00] be a registered alien for the rest of our life, my life, I would not have been allowed to vote, of course. But otherwise, I had pretty much the same privileges as an Uh, an American does. It’s the people who have come here illegally or have overstayed their visa. They’re the ones that have to follow these rather draconian rules about not returning to their country until, um, until they’ve finished all their applications, so forth.

Tor: Makes a lot of sense. Did you know anyone from your home country that was tried to gain citizenship to the U. S. but was unable to?

Jutta Bauman: Uh, no. I’ll tell you one story though. I know when my sister came over and she had, she was born here, so she was, um, She had the opportunity to become a citizen when she was 18, [00:18:00] and the, the laws at that time said that you had to make a choice.

So she had to make a choice between being a German, and she was living in Germany, and she already started, uh, you know, making a life there. And, um, and being a citizen of the United States. So she decided, maybe it was 21 actually, I think she was 21, she had to decide. And so she decided to become a German citizen, or to stay a German citizen and not claim her American citizenship.

The laws have changed, by the way. But, um, then, which is why Like in your family, you guys can Euro passports or German citizenship at this point, but anyway, so my sister comes over here and she is given a passport from the, because she’s now she’s sort of saying, well, maybe I’ll, maybe I will go to the States, go there and study for a while.

So the people in the embassy in Germany were very nice. And [00:19:00] they said, Oh, yeah, well, you’re eligible anyway. And they gave her this open ended. Visa, right? Which meant she could stay as long as she wanted because she had your sister here who said she would take care of her and blah, blah, blah. So she gets to the border and the border official looks at her document and says, wait a minute.

You’re not an American citizen, and you don’t have, you’re not a, you don’t have a permanent, um, residence, uh, paper like, you know, the one that I had. You can’t just have an unlimited visa, and he gave her a six week stay, period. And she was thinking of taking up studies here. What can you do in six weeks, right?

So she came, and she said, well, what can I do? And they said, well, you can reapply. And then here’s another example of how the system works, and apparently it’s gotten worse, not better, because this was a few years [00:20:00] ago. Uh, they, she called immigration and they said, well, we can’t even process your papers till six months from now.

And she said, wait a minute, I only have six weeks visa. They said, well, we can’t help you. We can’t, it’s going to take six months.

This kind of patch 22 is very, very, very common. In fact, it’s what people who are immigrants deal with all the time, and it’s just a small example. And she decided to go back to Germany and just let it go. Yeah. But. She was actually thinking of pursuing her studies here. So that’s, that’s the way it works.

Well, I mean, if she had applied as a student, that would have been different, but she thought, Oh, well, I have my sister over there and the people at the embassy said, Oh no, there’s no problem. You know, I can just give you an open ended visa and you can just [00:21:00] go over there, but on this end, they would have nothing of it.

Tor: So, so when you did move to the U S did you kind of, were you living in an area that had a lot of other immigrants there? Or was, were you kind of

Jutta Bauman: , well, I was at a university. We went to a, I was at the university of Minnesota in Minneapolis and, uh, there were students, there was a foreign student union, but since my husband was American and all our friends were basically just. Americans.

Tor: So you weren’t very, you weren’t very connected with that kind of

Jutta Bauman: No, I was not connected at all with, uh, uh, with the foreign community. And as far as the German community goes, I. You know, every once in a while, when we moved to Washington, where we moved, um, in a year and a half after we got to this country, we moved to Arlington, actually, we’ve lived [00:22:00] there ever since. But, um, every once in a while I would have contact with somebody from the embassy, but it was mostly just people that I knew from before.

Tor: Did you ever kind of feel unwelcome in the U. S. because you’re an immigrant or kind of like you’re kind of an outsider?

Jutta Bauman: No, as a kid when I was little, but that’s of course, I wasn’t an immigrant then I was just a right. A strange German girl who was, you know, former enemy, child of the former enemy. So that was a different No, not as an adult. Never. I would say every once in a while, you know, people would give you a hard time because you were of German descent, but that’s That’s understandable, given the history.

Tor: Did you have like a, when you first immigrated over, did you have kind of, at this point you’re pretty, [00:23:00] I mean you are, I’m assuming you’re already a relatively fluent English speaker. Yeah. Do you have like a sort of accent? Do you ever have people be like, oh, like, where are you from? Or was it kind of like, just like people assumed you were just an American?

Jutta Bauman: No, I sounded different. I, I mean, I, I think I’ve adjusted my accent quite a bit since then. I, I probably sounded more Euro British than, uh, not maybe a German accent as such, but a European accent, definitely, yeah, so.

Tor: Interesting. Um, are there any particular stories immigrating to the U. S. that, like, stand out in particular to you as, like, kind of, like, Like a big kind of memory of that experience.

Jutta Bauman: Well, I already told you my border story. Right. Uh, uh, think, let me think. Are there any stories that stand out as because of the immigrants? Well, you know, I mean, people would always say things like, you know, what, well, uh, how do you feel about the old country? And I used to think that [00:24:00] was very quaint. I, I really didn’t even think of Germany as the old country. And I have to admit, I. I’ve never been a very patriotic German or very patriotic American for that matter. I think being a good citizen of the world is probably much more important than, uh, either, uh, you know, being close to this country or that country. But anyway, so, uh, I, I would sometimes be typecast into these, uh, You know, the little immigrant woman, I used to find very funny and I, but I also found it a little bit insulting. I have to say, right.

I can’t think of anything else right now. I told you my border story.

Tor: Border story was great. Um, do you feel like, uh, living in other countries before you? [00:25:00] Like officially kind of immigrated to the U. S. and living in the U. S. prior as kind of, you know, like a non resident. Made immigrating to the U. S. easier when you did it kind of in that official sense, or?

Jutta Bauman: Oh, absolutely. But I think that, that, um, becoming a citizen, you know, as an adult and, you know, forsaking all others. all other allegiances and so forth is a very creepy process. I, I, I thought it was odd. And even after I had lived in so many different countries, I mean, I’ve lived in Far East, I’ve lived in Africa. Uh, it wasn’t the same because I was always just there as a, as a, an expat, as a foreigner. And now suddenly I wasn’t. Here as an expat, I was actually pledging allegiance, you know, Oh, I have a good story. [00:26:00] So when I was getting sworn in, you know, after my, my wonderful experience with the, with the, um, the immigration lawyer who then, you know, very kindly, uh, Passed me through the interview and asked me all these questions about American government, which I was able to answer because on the way there in the car, I had done a quick review with my husband on what might they ask me, like how many members there are in the House of Representatives and stuff like that, questions like that, which I was then able to rattle off. So anyway, I was done and I was given a date at the Alexandria courthouse and, uh, all the. All the immigrants or the the new newly baked citizens were kind of put into these little cage like [00:27:00] structures. It was very, very odd. So you had like maybe 10, 15 people standing together. And then we were all, you know, told to put our hands on our hearts and speak the Pledge of Allegiance together. Which was fine, and there was a little guy next to me, he was probably, he went to my shoulders, and I’m not particularly tall, uh, he was an Italian, as I had found out when I walked in there, because he introduced himself, whatever, and instead of putting his hand on his heart, He did the salute, you know, this is really funny and I, you know, it was one of these things where, but this was his way, I think, of expressing how, you know, this, this was his, his new allegiance, but at the same time, it was, it was quite, quite interesting. And since he was so short, nobody really [00:28:00] noticed. So, yes. And then, uh, then I was a citizen. I got, they released me out of my cage, which I was, at the time, I was wondering, is this symbolic that they put you in a cage and say your pledge? Yeah, but anyway, that was interesting. So like, there’s definitely like a, you have to like, kind of like learn, the information you have to learn to kind of become a citizen, like, like the House of Representatives, stuff like that.

Tor: Right. After, like, beyond once you had become a citizen, did you ever use that information again, really? Or was that just kind of like, like, as, as a U. S. citizen, did you use those, like, American, that American knowledge, or was it really just kind of to, like, Prepare yourself to be for this test to get into the,

Jutta Bauman: well, you know, I mean, it’s, it’s always, it’s always fun to play trivia. [00:29:00] It was mostly trivia. No, but I mean, I mean, I think it’s, I guess if I may interpret your question, I think you’re probably asking whether these, whether I think. It was relevant for me to learn these things. And I, I think it was, I think it’s actually very important. I, I, I am conservative enough, though I’m not really conservative, but I’m conservative enough to think that all Americans really, and in the schools, they should be teaching these facts and make sure that the kids know them and make them responsible for them. And I’m not sure they always do these days, but anyway, so, um, yeah, no, I. But it’s like any other set of information that. Is useful. I mean, you read the paper, you know what you’re reading. And of course, what citizenship really [00:30:00] does for you is it gives you the right to vote. Right. And I think being a good voter is important.

Tor: Definitely. So we’re getting pretty close on the amount of time I have on Zoom. Okay. But, uh, just want to get one final question here. Um, so like in overall your immigrant experience, your experience of, you know, coming from Germany to the U S would you say it was like a positive experience overall or a negative experience in terms of,

Jutta Bauman: uh, it’s a very positive experience. I, I much prefer, uh, living in the American society than I do in the German society for a number of reasons. Uh, I feel very much at home here and my family’s here. And I think, uh, you know, I was blessed in, uh, How well I was received and, uh, the opportunities it gave me to come here. No question about it. I mean, I, I am completely, [00:31:00] um, it’s the word.

If I had to do it over again, I certainly would put it that.

Tor: Thank you so much. I’m going to end the recording. Right.