Interview with Selma
When Professor Trouille first introduced this Immigrant Stories Project, my mom’s story came to mind. Growing up, I always heard stories about her and my father’s journey to America, but I never got the full picture of what exactly happened because of how traumatic it was for them both. My sisters and I would ask questions, but we were normally met with short responses and never questioned it because we knew it was a hard topic to discuss, especially for young kids. When I first introduced the idea of the interview my mother was hesitant but eventually agreed because she thought it was important to share parts of her story.
My mother, Selma, was born on May 31, 1973, in a small town just outside of Slemani, Kurdistan. Kurdistan is a region that is made up of the following four countries: Syria, Turkey, Iran, and Iraq, and my mother was from the Northern Iraq area of Kurdistan. Back in the late 1970s, Saddam Hussein came to power, and this was quite a pivotal moment, especially for my mother’s journey. What she did not know back then was that in the late 1990’s she would have to uproot her entire life and move to America to seek refuge, but I am getting ahead of myself.
As I mentioned earlier, my mother was born in a small village just outside Slemani but at some point, in her early childhood, their family decided to move to Slemani, Kurdistan. She does not remember much about the move, but she has many fond memories of her playing games with her siblings and cousins, going to school, and picking figs off the fig tree in their front yard. What she did not know at the time was that this happy and calm life would be short lived.
My mother does not remember much about Saddam Hussein coming to power because she was a young child at that point in time. She does remember that the days did not seem dangerous, but the harsh realities were uncovered when night fell. “Kurds would either be taken in and imprisoned or put into Saddam’s army regime.” When talking about life under the regime my mother mentioned how my uncle spent an entire year locked and hidden in their home to avoid being caught and forced into the regime’s army. She even mentioned how a bomb fell in her aunt’s front porch and killed everyone living in the house. Later when I asked her why the bomb fell into their porch, she said that there was no reason except for the fact that they were Kurds. This was the realities that the Kurds were faced with at the time. It was practically a daily occurrence witnessing the persecution of innocents Kurds in the streets and fearing the idea of going out and being tortured for the sole reason of being caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Fast forward to the late 1990s when my mother and father met, Saddam Hussein sent out an order which threatened to kill anyone who was even remotely linked to the United States or United Kingdom. At the time my father was working at a U.S. Non-Governmental Organization, which meant that they were now under the threat of being killed at any given moment, and as discussed in class this was a huge push factor out of the country. As a response President Bush decided to rescue those, including my parents, under Operation Pacific Haven in 1996. This operation had two phases, one was to get the Kurds out of immediate danger and have them screened and processed for refugees seeking political asylum and the second was to send them out to Guam for additional support. This support included teaching the refugees about America, its language, customs, norms, etc., as well as providing future housing. My mother remembers spending most of her days with the other Kurds, learning about their stories, and making connections that she has kept in contact with to this day.
After a while of being placed in these camps, my parents received the news that they would be placed in Houston, Texas. This turned out to be a temporary stop in their journey because soon after they settled in, their close friends and support system decided to move to Harrisonburg, Virginia. After our interview my mother and I started talking about her move to Harrisonburg, Virginia and the first thing she mentioned was how the mountains and the rural landscape of the area reminded her of home. Hearing this when talking to her made us both emotional, she was reminiscing about her times in Kurdistan, and I was thinking about the toll this journey must have taken on her but how it seemed somewhat worth it because she found her own piece of home in America.
Although the Harrisonburg, Virginia area was a racially White majority area, my mother did not recall any heinous or outwardly racist behaviors from those in the area. That was up until the tragic events that took place on September 1, 2001. She mentioned that most people were curious about their language, customs, religion, and traditions before 9/11. This is not hard to believe because most people have never heard of the Kurdish people of the Middle East due to our extensive history of being mistreated, silenced, and attacked. However, my mother remembers that after 9/11 she would get questioned by random people she worked with, and people would make snide comments occasionally. She also recalls someone asking her if she knew Osama bin Laden or if she was related to him, which she just laughed at because of how ridiculous that question was. While my mother did notice a shift in how she was treated by strangers and coworkers, she was aware that she did not receive as harsh treatment as those who appear outwardly Muslim like women who wear the hijab, which was an unfortunate result of the overgeneralizations and stereotypes that were being made in the media.
As my mother and I continued our discussion about her journey to America, she recalled her gratitude for being granted a safe place to stay and raise her children, but she could not help but feel homesick. Even though she and my father did their best to stay connected to the Kurdish community and build family-like bonds with those in the area, they both decided to visit Kurdistan in 2000. She recounted how nervous she felt going back home and how emotional she felt walking through the now safe Kurdistan. Anytime I speak to her about her trips back to Kurdistan my mother always has the biggest smile on her face and tells me all about the trips that I was not there for or could not remember.
Kurdistan does and will always have a special place in her heart, but ever since her move to America in 1997, she has opened room for her new home. Although it took some time to get used to the new norms and customs, like the in-depth conversations with coworkers that she really knew nothing about or the long workdays that leave her too tired to do anything else most days, she does have a soft spot for America. In the interview, she mentioned how she could never see herself going back to Kurdistan for good just because of the life she has built here for herself and how she is just so used to everything, which honestly surprised me. I always imagined my mother longing to live in Kurdistan and wishing to stay there for good. I realized that although she was born and raised in Kurdistan, going back would only mean another period of change and getting used to a new way of life and customs all over again, which is something that she has done enough times in her lifetime.
Now my mother has decided to continue implementing her Kurdish culture in our lives by continuing to cook traditional foods and wear traditional clothes during special occasions. She continues teaching us the language and all about our heritage, whether it be through storytelling, movie-watching, or music playing. Throughout all her trials and tribulations, my mother has continued to keep a grateful mindset and patient mindset which has allowed her to find comfort in the unknown. She has shown my sisters and I that time and time again she will continue to persevere in the face of adversity, which is why I was so proud and excited to interview her for the project.
Aween Ahmed:Okay, so this is Aween Ahmed and I’m gonna be interviewing my mom. So we can just start off with your name and where you’re from.
Selma: Hi, my name is Selma and I’m from Slemani, Kurdistan.
Aween Ahmed: All right. And can you tell me a little bit about where you were born? What was your experience like growing up, family and life, education, all that?
Selma: So I was born in a village about 30 to 45 minutes away from Slemani which is one of the major cities of the Iraq part of Kurdistan. Um, I lived in that village until I was about 10 years. And then we had moved to the city. Um, and then after that, you know, I was just going to school. A lot of my time was either spent at school or with family, like my sisters and my cousins. Um, and my dad worked at a cigarette factory. My mom was a stay at home mom, and I had six sisters and two brothers.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And can you tell me about Kurdistan’s political climate and kind of what the day to day was like?
Selma: So at that time when I was growing up, we were under a dictatorship of Saddam Hussein. Um, and I think like the day to day in the mornings, or like during the daylight, you wouldn’t really realize much of how dangerous it was. But at nighttime, if any of the Kurds were caught outside, they would either be taken in imprisoned or put into Saddam’s, um, army regime. Um, my brother could not leave the house for about a year due to if he was caught, um, he would have to be a part of Saddam’s army. So we thought it would be better that he would just be hidden in the home.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And can you tell me about any other stories from that time? Anything you remember in particular?
Selma: Um, I would just say hanging out with my cousins a lot of the time. I think one thing that was very vital in our family was in the Nineties when a bomb fell into my aunt’s house and, um, killed everybody that was living in that house. Um, well everybody that was like in the courtyard of that house at that time. Um, along with my aunt and one of my cousins.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. I’m sorry to hear about that. Um, how would you describe life there at the time compared to what you were used to before Saddam? If you remember anything at all.
Selma: Before Saddam, I don’t really remember anything. I think during Saddam’s time it was a lot of, you know, the, his military was around everywhere. There wasn’t, we weren’t really able to go out without being persecuted, without being, seeing people get beaten up, seeing people get taken. Um, so it was just a lot of caution that was needed because of the hatred he had for the Kurds. And wanting them to no longer be a part of Iraq or even be living.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And when did you and my dad decide to leave Kurdistan? And what were your reasons for immigrating?
Selma: So we didn’t really get to decide to leave Kurdistan. It was either we leave, Kurdistan or Saddam would kill um, the members of those who worked for the American, British and French NGOs. He had an order that came out that said anybody that is working for them, their families would all be killed. Um, so at that time the President [of the United States] decided to bring everybody here to America. Um, so we left Kurdistan and were in Guam for a couple months before we were here in America.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And can you tell me kind of about the like, traveling process? So were you guys sent straight to Guam? Um, like did you guys have any choice in where you got to go or was predetermined by the US since they helped you leave?
Selma: Um, so when we left, we left from Slemani to one of the Turkish cities. Um, from there we were flown out to Guam and we were in Guam from December of ’96 to March of ’97.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: Afterwards, um, we got to write people’s names of who we wanted to be close to when we came to America, but like the city that we were sent to, we didn’t really get an option of that.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And, oh, go on, I’m sorry.
Selma: Sorry. But the families that we were close that we were gonna be in the same city with, we were able to have that option.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And, was it difficult having to leave your family behind? Did anyone else from your family even, like, did they decide to stay in Kurdistan or did they anyone else decide to leave?
Selma: So for family, none of our other family members really worked for the American NGOs. It was just your father and then like some really distant relatives that are here now. Um, leaving my family, I mean, obviously it was hard to leave them. I got married in May ’96 and um, December of ’96, I was having to leave everything I knew, my family, the city I had grown up with and everything to come to a country that you only saw in movies or heard about and was never something that I thought would be possible.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And did your family ever try, like kind of convincing you guys to stay or were they encouraging you to leave with your husband? Like kind of, what was that all like?
Selma: I think our families, they knew that we would have better opportunities for our future children and ourselves if we moved to America. But at the same time, I mean, they were obviously upset that we would be leaving.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And how old were you when you fled from Kurdistan?
Selma: I was 23 years old. So three years older than what you are now.
Aween Ahmed: And so tell me about, um, because [I know] you were pregnant at the time. So tell me about like, how that was, was it difficult to navigate your first pregnancy while also having to like, work out the logistics of having to leave?
Selma: Yeah, I was pregnant with your older sister at that time. Um, I mean, obviously it was hard. I mean, I was already hormonal and wanted to cry about everything anyway, so then having to add on leaving my family and everything, I knew it was very difficult. I got very sick, um, on our way to Guam, and while we were in Guam, I mean, trying to get used to the food was very difficult because, I mean, obviously American food is gonna be different than Kurdish food and the way that you cook it and everything. Um, being pregnant and having to leave everything, you know, your entire support system. Thankfully the family that we lived with in Guam, um, they were such, the mom that we were with, she was such an integral part of it that when I had a baby, she was able to help me with learning how to,– I already knew how to change diapers and whatever –because I was the third oldest in my family. But just being able to watch a child and be able to have somebody to watch over it, it was nice having that support from her since I wasn’t able to have it from my mother, because she was in Kurdistan
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And so how did leaving Kurdistan work, who helped you guys leave? ,
Selma: Um it was the American President that allowed for us to leave Kurdistan, um, through Operation Pacific Haven then.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And how long were you guys in Guam for?
Selma: From December of ’96 to March of ’97 we were in Guam, March of ’97. Um, we landed in Houston, Texas.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And what was it like in Guam? Like what were the living conditions? How were you guys treated by the people and would you say you felt welcomed?
Selma: So we weren’t with other like people, I would say we were with a bunch of Kurdish people at that time. Like everybody that we really interacted with were Kurdish.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: …living there. It was nice. I mean, it was, um, island. So there were palm trees everywhere. Um, our days were really just spent being with other families and going to classes to learn about what America would be like. Kind of learn the language [00:08:00] and learn how to assimilate and what the workday would be like, what to expect when moving to America. It was very educational at points, but a lot of our times were also just spent with other families.
Aween Ahmed: Okay.
Selma: (cont’d) trying to pass the [time].
Aween Ahmed: All right. And so I know that you were placed in Houston, Texas. Um, how long did you guys stay there, and then why did you guys decide to leave Houston?
Selma: We were in Houston from March of ’97 and January 1st of ’98 we came to Harrisonburg, Virginia. um, we left because all of the other families that we were with also decided to leave and we wanted to have our support system. We didn’t want to just be left alone. I mean, we already had left everything we knew, so leaving the people that were our support system would also be difficult. So it was nice to move here with one of our other close family friends from Houston and we all kind of reunited the friendship here in Harrisonburg.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And um, when you came to Harrisonburg, what was it like? How were you all feeling?
Selma: Um, Harrisonburg, it was okay. It was different from Houston for sure because Harrisonburg is a lot more rural. Um, the jobs here were more factory based, which is kind of easier to get into when you’re an immigrant because of language barriers and stuff that other jobs require and the education process. So job opportunities were better. A lot of our time was just spent with the other Kurdish families and we’d all kind of travel in packs depending on where we would work and stuff like that. It’s kind of still the same.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And who helped you guys integrate into society? Or was it kind of like a you do it yourself?
Selma: Um, it was kind of do it yourself, but like if you did it yourself, you were doing it with the other Kurdish people. So it was just very community driven. Um, the assimilation, the learning of everything. It was once one person knew they would teach somebody else and somebody else, and somebody else, until the entire community knew how to do it.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And, um, when did you apply for citizenship? And kind of tell me about that process.
Selma: So we applied for citizenship after the five year mark of us being in America. But due to 9/ 11, a lot of our immigration stuff and citizenship stuff got delayed. Um, I would assume due to background checks and just the way that we came to America was probably so different than the way other people came that they probably wanted to make sure that who they were letting, allowing to become citizens were people that they wouldn’t have to be afraid of in a sense of, in regards to homeland security, I would say.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm um, so I know you graduated high school in Kurdistan um, did you ever plan to continue your education there and did you ever think about continuing your education even here in America?
Selma: So once I graduated from high school in Kurdistan I never really thought about going back. I mean, I got into community college to become a teacher like my sisters, but it just wasn’t something I was really interested in.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: (cont’d) once I came to America, I mean, I had your sister and then five years later I had you. So it would be difficult to have go to school, raise you to work full time, run a household and continue our social life with the other Kurds here. So it wasn’t something I really thought about.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm. Um, so working here in America, I know that was like one of your first ever jobs. What was it like working here, um, in America?
Selma: It was a lot different working here in America. I mean, I never worked in Kurdistan but the workday in Kurdistan is a lot shorter than what you have here, typically in America. If you’re working an office job, it’s probably a 9 – 5 o’clock shift or an 8 – 4 o’clock shift. Um, if you’re working factory jobs, most of them are 10 hours or 12 hour work days with a bunch of overtime. Um, back home in Kurdistan, if you were a teacher, you would work 8 – 12 o’clock shift or 12 – 4 o’clock shift. If you were working for like an agency or a company, you would be working 8 to 2 o’clock shift at most, I would say.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm. .
Selma: (con’t) Um, so just getting used to the work culture here of how long the days are, as well as the physical demands of the jobs. I mean, they weren’t easy. I went from not having to work, to having to work in a turkey factory, work in a chicken factory, and then work in a distribution center as well until I um, started working in food service in the city schools.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And were there any like, culture shocks when it came to work life in America?
Selma: I think the, just the entire process of working was a culture shock to a lot of us because none of us were used to the long days. None of us really expected it to be the way that it is here with the factory jobs and the physical demand of the jobs.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And what about your interactions with other immigrants from other parts of the world? Like would you say that being an immigrant yourself gave you some insight on what others might be going through?
Selma: Um, I think that because we all worked the same jobs, a lot of the Kurdish people, we would kind of just stick together and we really wouldn’t interact with others.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: (con’t) um, unless we really had to, or we were asked questions or something, we would just kind of stick together. So, I know a lot of us probably thought that the, um, Hispanic immigrants probably had it easier because they were closer to America. So like language and stuff probably wasn’t as big of a deal or coming here and going back home wasn’t as hard for them. I think a lot of us really related to the Russian immigrants, um, just with their family life and the distance that they are far from home.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: (con’t) and their culture.
Aween Ahmed: And what would you say are some advantages of being an immigrant in America?
Selma: Um, I don’t really know if there are any advantages to being an immigrant in America. I mean, the advantage is having the opportunity for you and your kids to build a better life for yourself. I would definitely say. Um, but with that comes a lot of racism. Comes with a lot of hatred for a group of people that people haven’t interacted with due to what’s been portrayed in the media. So it can definitely be scary, um, being an immigrant in America, but, but we’re also thankful for the opportunities that it, it had provided for our kids and if it was definitely a safer place than where we were at, at that point in time, in Kurdistan.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. So, um, you mentioned like racism and kind of discrimination and all that. Would you say that there was, um, Any kind of negative interactions or negative reception to the Kurds coming to Harrisonburg, because it is quite a white majority area.
Selma: I don’t, before 9/11, I, I think 9/11 was a pivotal turning point in history. Um, there was always gonna be that little bit of racism because of Middle Eastern countries and the way that they’ve been portrayed in the media and the violence and everything. But I think after 9/11, people were more outwardly racist. More outwardly they would say stuff or they would do stuff to kind of upset you, and the racism was a lot more outright than previously.
Aween Ahmed: Okay and so being here for like 26 plus years, do you feel, um, American, are you still more in tune with being a Kurd. Kind of, how has it been dealing with that kind of.
Selma: I would say it’s about 60- 40. I think that my heart will always be in Kurdistan and I feel like for you guys too, your hearts are probably more in Kurdistan than they are here. Um, even from when you guys [00:16:00] talk, you guys always say, “we’re going back home,” when we go back to Kurdistan and we’re going back to America when we come back here.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: (con’t) while this is your guys’ home. I think that just like me, you guys feel more at peace and more in tune with your culture when we’re back in Kurdistan um, but I’m also thankful for the opportunities that America gave me, gave you guys to be able to complete your education here and get jobs here. I mean, you already know that your cousins are your sister’s age. She (my sister) has a full-time job. She’s working on her masters and she’s able to do that. But in Kurdistan … your cousins have completed their education however, there’s not jobs right now for them.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. Um, I know you mentioned some culture shocks, like within the work aspect of life, but can you tell me anything about, um, any that you experienced in general with how people interacted with one another or even like some of the saying just any culture shocks in general?
Selma: I think culture shocks, a lot of it had to do with relationships and the way that the Americans would speak to one another, speak with the opposite genders would speak with one another and also like the family value.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: …aspect of it. I think like in Kurdistan when men and women talk, it’s very formal. It’s very short to the point and it’s done. Here however, there’s long in depth conversations with joking, laughing, touching, and all of these things. While in Kurdistan it’s very much you keep your distance.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: …you speak with them, you can joke, you can laugh. However, keep your distance. No touching.
Aween Ahmed: Yeah.
Selma: (con’t) Kind of thing. Um, I think as well, Kurdistan is very family based, very much so… like you go see your parents once a week, you see your sisters and your brothers all the time. You see your cousins all the time. However, when you’re here, people are so spread out that it was just such a culture shock to hear like how parents don’t see their kids except once or twice a year if that.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm. Um, so would you say that living here in America. Uh, do you like living here? Have you ever thought of going back to Kurdistan to like, stay for good?
Selma: I like living here. I think life here is a little bit easier just with the 24 hours access to water and electricity and all of that. However, that’s getting better in Kurdistan as well. Um, I think job opportunities for you guys, it’s a lot, there’s a lot more here as well as completing your education. I mean [in terms of] job opportunities you and your sister both started working when you were 17.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: You guys are able to get retail jobs and do that. You guys are able to, once you have your education, hopefully get jobs within some sort of realm of your career, um, or your degree, I would say, however, back home it’s a little bit more difficult when it comes to that. Um, I think that there was a point where maybe we thought of going back to Kurdistan however, we never did because we didn’t want to, one, uproot your guys’ lives and now that you guys are here, you guys have grown up here. You guys are getting everything situated here. I mean, your sister finished school, you’re about to finish school. The other two are coming up. I don’t think it just would be right to take all of that and put it back in Kurdistan [especially] when your guys’ futures are here.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And um, I know that you don’t have any family here, but with the Kurdish community here, did you, would you say that you guys kind of built a sense of family, a community, a network that kind of shapes the way you guys live? Um, shape how like your culture has maintained throughout your 26 years of being here?
Selma: I would definitely say so. I think that especially the families that came here in ’96, ’97, they’re still referred to as a ’96, ’97 Kurds. They’re, I feel like we’re a lot closer just because of the amount of time we used to spend together and the amount relationships we built with one another and the commonality of our journey here.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: um, I would say you guys probably feel the same way. You guys probably feel closer to the ’96, ’97 Kurds than you do some of the newer Kurds which isn’t like, bad that they’re here. It’s just, it’s a different sense of family with the ’96, ’97 Kurds, like, you know, every year before Covid-19, we had the Kurdish New Year’s Party in March, we would have Celebrate Eid together. Um, we would go door to door back in the day. But just with the growing amount of people within the community, it’s a lot easier now to have it at the park and everybody get together after eating dinner and have desserts and fruit there.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. Um, so you mentioned like all these new Kurds coming here. Do you think that the older Kurds, um, have kind of helped create like a network to bring more, um, awareness that there is such a huge Kurdish population here? And that like to kind of help them come here?
Selma: I would say so. I think that it’s a lot easier for the Kurds that come here now. I mean, your sister worked at one of the factories here and her job was hiring people. And as you know, people would call throughout the day and ask for her to hire their relatives, hire these new Kurds that are here. They would ask her to help them fill out the applications and everything. I think that even now, they have an entire Harrisonburg Kurds Facebook page where people from Kurdistan are writing in and they’re like, “Hey, I’ll be here in a couple months. Please let me know if there’s anywhere to rent. Let me know like the process of getting here and whatnot”. Um, I think it’s a definitely a lot easier for the Kurds that come now, especially just with the access to social media, the access to kind of knowing what they’re gonna expect once they come here to America.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm. , um, Would you like, do you have any kind of advice for anyone who like is looking to come to America? Like what kind of advice would you give them? Um, what is advice that you wish that you heard when you came here yourself?
Selma: I think my advice would be that, understanding that in Kurdistan what your occupation was, what career was, it’s gonna be different here in America until you’re able to get the same amount of education that is needed.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: Um, as you know, some of the families we came with, they were engineers, they were doctors, they were this, they were that and with these high power jobs. However, once they came to America, all of that kind of goes away. And they’re working the same jobs and it’s not a bad thing, but they’re working the same jobs as the security guards that we’re working for the same companies. However, it I’m sure it’s an ego hit to come from being in such a high power place of being an engineer, having, making as much money as you do, making an as an engineer, working as a deputy, a sheriff, and then coming here and working factory jobs. Um, I think that our ’96 ’97 group was able to assimilate more to understanding that this is the reality, and some of them went on to continue their education and to get the same education they had back home to be able to work those jobs. However, it just wasn’t a reality for other people because of whether that’s age, whether that was wanting to go back through all that schooling, whether it was having kids and just not being able to. I think my biggest [advice is] take it as it comes. And [that] nobody is too good for any job that’s offered.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: (con’t) It’s just until you get on your feet, you’re probably gonna have to work a factory job or two.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And, um, what would you say are some compromises you might have had to make coming here?
Selma: Um, I would say probably being able to see my family, being able to have that semblance of familiarity of being in Kurdistan um, Having to learn how to do basically everything all over again.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: (con’t) from cooking, because cooking back home, it’s different. I mean, the rice is different, the oil is different, the grape leaves are different. Like the Kurdish food is just different. And even now you guys will hear us talking about rice and which rice is better for this, which rice is better for that, which is like, which store has better ingredients for this and that, um, and also I think a compromise would have to be religiously, I feel like we’re probably a little, even though we try our best to be close to it, it’s not like back home where you would hear the prayer call for each prayer.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: It’s not like back home where the entire community was off for Eid. Now you have to take your own days off, which isn’t, I mean, it’s just a reality of the situation that we live in, but those are the compromises that I that we’ve definitely had to make.
Aween Ahmed: All right. And what about raising your children in America? What do you, what did you and, um, my father do to like, maintain our Kurdish culture? Um, what were some more shocking things that you noticed , when they were growing up here compared to like your own childhood?
Selma: I think that we definitely tried to maintain our Kurdish culture with, through the language, the food, the continuing to have that familiar support. There’s very few weekends we don’t see like one of our family friends .
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: Um even for like the American holidays or the Christian holidays of Thanksgiving, Christmas, July 4th, we all still try to get together, even though they’re not technically our holidays, we still try to get together with our close family friends, um, to celebrate those times, cook food, and be able to do with them.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And, um, did you notice any changes in like the school systems, in the area as a result of like immigration?
Selma: Um, I would say that the schools, I think that Harrisonburg City Schools were probably a little bit more prepared for it just because of the high Russian population and the high Spanish speaking population when the Kurds came.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: (con’t) and they were going through schools. However, the County Schools I think they really had to put in some work, whether that would be having interpreters at these school events, having paperwork sent home that is in Kurdish, having. Um, when calling parents having an interpreter so that their five year old wasn’t interpreting what a principal was saying about what the kid did in school or did not do, a lot of you guys had to go into ESL Language classes, even though you spoke English perfectly from what it sounded like to us. I mean, even your 10 year old sister who grew up with you guys speaking English around her, she was in ESL classes until last year. I think that the schools have definitely come a long way with being able to accommodate for the amount of immigration that’s happening.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. Um, within the realms of kind of maintaining the Kurdish culture just within your family, um, did you ever visit Kurdistan after you fled?
Selma: Yeah. Um, so I have been back five times. The first time we went back was in 2000 and it was just me, your father, and your oldest sister.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: Um, and then we went in 2004 where we had you and your older sister. Again in 2009 where it was the three of you. Um, and then in 2016 when it was all four of you, we were able to go back. And I think every single time that we went back, we saw that you guys were able to speak the language better. You guys were more in tune with the culture. You guys were able to see your fam-, our families, and you were able to build those connections with our families, um, that you might not have otherwise. Even now, like you guys will say hi to your aunts and stuff, but it’s different when you’re there and you’re interacting with your cousins, your aunts and everything.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm. Um, and what are, like, was it hard the first time you went back? Um, like kind of going back there the first time ever after you fled and then like, also leaving them?
Selma: It’s hard every time we leave. I think that, uh, leaving Kurdistan is never gonna get easier, whether that’s for me or for you guys.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: I don’t think it’s ever gonna get easier. Um, but going back it was nervousness, I would say, and excitement. It wasn’t very much, it wasn’t being scared to go back home. It was being excited to see my family and be able to hear the prayer calls and go out to the stores and be able to have that semblance and familiarity that I had for so many years.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And what are some things that like you miss from Kurdistan that every time you went back you’re like, “oh my gosh, like I forgot about this,” or “this just kind of takes me back.”
Selma: I think a lot of just like speaking with family and old family stories, going back to the village that I’m from, being able to go back into the stores and just hear your language being spoken all around you and being able to go to the fabric stores and pick out Kurdish clothes, go through the bazaars and be able to pick out whatever you wanted in one, in a one stop shop kind of thing.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: um, I know you and your sister are always talking about like the green ice cream that’s in Kurdistan or the juices that are made from the fruits of Kurdistan, whether that’s pomegranate juice, whether that’s, um, grape juice. Just being able to be there and be around your people I think is really important. I know that you guys always liked going to the parks and the amusement parks that were around.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And so what are some ways that you, um, try to stay connected with Kurdistan in general, but also like with your family?
Selma: I think it was a lot harder when we first came to America because we would have to buy like those phone cards from the gas stations and sometimes they would work, other times they wouldn’t and it became very expensive. Um, thankfully with the internet it became easier because we had Skype and then we had Yahoo Messenger and Viber and Facebook Messenger really made it, um, easy to be able to speak with family and be able to video chat with family and see them all. Um, where it went from being a once a week, twice, maybe three times a month, you were able to speak with your family. Where now it’s an everyday thing that you’re able to talk to everybody.
Aween Ahmed: And, um, as I was kind of like preparing for this interview, I was trying to look for photos and stuff, just kind of from when you were younger, um, do you have any reason for why there’s not a lot of pictures from when you were younger or like why only like, most of the pictures are from like, you know, your twenties and up?
Selma: Um, when we were younger, because uh, when we left we had to leave the city of San money for a little bit. Um, my dad, I had to actually burned all of our pictures. It just wasn’t something we were able to take with us when we were leaving the city because of Saddam Huessien, and his regime trying to take over the city back then.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And, um, kind of going back to working here in America, like, were there, um, like what were the kind of jobs that, like you and my dad had to work, um, just to kind of make ends meet?
Selma: Um, when we first came it was a lot. , the turkey plants, the chicken plants, working at the distribution center in Marshall’s, Cargill, Tysons, all of those.
Aween Ahmed: Mm-hmm.
Selma: Um, that’s where we worked. Um, and then your dad went over overseas to interpret for a little while. Once he came back, I worked at the JMU dining halls, and then after that, um, I decided to move into the lunch lady realm of working in the city schools, which I’m thankful for. Your dad still works at Marshall’s and he’s happy with his job, but when we first came and being able to work those jobs and learn how to work them and be able to meet the production needs of the company, it was a lot more difficult, but we were able to do it eventually.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. And are there any other, is there anything else that you’d like to mention in this interview? Any further advice? Any advice for your past self? Anything like that?
Selma: I think the only advice I would give is for the kids that are growing up here now, um, it is please complete your education or have something that you’re passionate about, whether that’s being a hairdresser, being a barber, some sort of trade that you’re able to monetize. Your parents didn’t leave their country for you to be able to come to this country and have to live off of them for the rest of your life. So do something that you’re passionate about. I’m not saying do be the typical doctor, engineer, lawyer, but be do something that you’re passionate about. Do something that you will want to spend your life doing and try to keep our culture in mind. Try to keep the language alive within your guys’ generations that are coming up. I know it’s hard. I know it’s difficult that you spend eight to 10 hours a day out in public speaking one language, and then having to come home and speak another, but that is how you keep language alive. So that would definitely be my.
Aween Ahmed: Okay. Thank you so much for taking the time to tell me about your story. I really appreciated learning more about your experiences. Um, so yeah, thank you.
Selma: Thank you.
Recent Comments