Interview with Veronica
Methods
Over thanksgiving break, I set up an in-person interview with my neighbor, Veronica Yarbray – which went incredibly well and resulted in an extremely informational conversation of her life experiences and perspectives. I texted Veronica in advance to plan a day over the break when both of us would be in town to record the interview because I knew I wanted to meet with her in-person.
Our interview flew by and flowed incredibly well for several reasons. The first, being that we had a comfortable environment. Second, this was not the first time Veronica and I have spoken, as we have known each other for many years and converse quite often because we live in such close proximity to each other. The fact that we were able to meet in-person and record the interview face-to-face, rather than over a digital platform such as Zoom, is another component to the success of the interview. Additionally, Veronica and I are quite extroverted, and I believe our personalities resulted in an engaging conversation where the two of us frequently bounced off each other.
Migration
Veronica’s immigration story began following her marriage to Rob, whom she met after he graduated school in Sweden. Rob and Veronica were forced to make a very difficult decision early on in their marriage: remain in Sweden or immigrate to the United States, where Rob is from. After weighing the costs and benefits of moving to the United States, Rob and Veronica made the decision to begin their future together in the US and moved “straight after [their] wedding,” as Veronica recalls. The choice to leave Sweden was far more difficult for Veronica, as she had lived in Sweden her whole life and would therefore need to begin the immigration process to gain legal entry into the United States.
Photo courtesy: Veronica Yarbray
Veronica immigrated to the United States in 1999 at the age of 25 after applying for a Green Card under the eligibility category of applying as an immediate relative of a U.S. citizen because her husband, Rob, was from California where he was raised before living in Sweden for his education. Veronica recalls the whole process as one that required a lot of time and paperwork. She did recall never needing to go through an interview process, but that even if “you sort of thought you were all healthy,” that it was still required that you “go through some, like medical checks that special, approved American doctor for something and take X rays of your lungs and all sorts of things.” Even though Veronica does not recall an initial interview process, she explained that her and Rob are required to continue submitting “pictures of vacations together and that type of stuff,” to prove that they are still married. She explained that it is challenging to remember to keep up with these obligations after so many years, recalling having to submit proof once after two years and then again after five or ten years had passed. Recently, she recalled that this has gotten easier, “Because I think they realize, okay you’re still there.”
Photo courtesy: Veronica Yarbray
Veronica Yarbray grew up in Helsingborg, Sweden, which is the country’s closest point to Denmark (Rome2rio, n.d.). Geography impacted Veronica’s immigration journey, as she recalls, “Because we live so close to Denmark, we were actually allowed to go to the US Embassy in Denmark, which has nothing to do with Swedish citizenship, but it’s closer. So that was nice.” This did result in some confusion as Veronica recalls having to fill out different forms that were sent from the Embassy in Sweden vs those from the Embassy in Denmark. She recalls her thought process, stating
“then we got the form in Denmark, and we’re like, but these are not like the same thing, or whatever. Or we’d filled out this, but now you’re asking us to fill out that like, what, what’s going on? And we get the answer of: ‘Oh yeah, but you know, different embassies have different paperwork.’ But we’re like you but wait a minute. It’s all the US?
Photo courtesy: Veronica Yarbray
Not only was Rob’s upbringing and family in the state of California a major deciding factor in moving to the United States for the newly married couple, but Veronica recalls one of the major pull factors being a job opportunity for Rob. “Pull factors” are forces in receiving societies that create demand for immigrants. Before individuals chose to migrate, they typically formulate a cost-benefit calculation to weigh the pull factors of the receiving country against possible alternatives, one of which being to stay in one’s home country. The decision to migrate to a new country is often made after this cost-benefit calculation leads to the expectation of a positive return on investment, typically a positive monetary return, as economic opportunity is a key factor that makes the costly process of immigration one that is worthwhile in the end.
For Rob and Veronica, an additional layer impacted their decision to move to the United States beyond the hope of economic opportunity: their social networks connected them to resources that made their transition smoother. Veronica recalled that her and Rob made the decision to settle down in a different state from where Rob grew up because, “Rob had gotten a job here on the east coast because of, or connected with, one of his American friends who also studied with him in Sweden.” Migrant networks, which are sets of interpersonal ties that connect migrants, former migrants, and nonimmigrants at places of origin and destination through reciprocal ties, describe such examples of social forces which promote immigration. The social capital Rob and Veronica possessed through these friends landed Rob a job, which increased the likelihood for them to immigrate because this job lowered the costs and risks associated with the migration process. Veronica recalls how critical these friends were in their decision to come to the United States, stating “because we had friends here again, that Rob went to school with in Sweden who live here, so we had something right. And then because they help Rob get his job, so there was something, it wasn’t like we were just moving and trying to figure things out so that’s sort of you know, helped as well.”
More specifically, this illustrates the concept of paisanaje, which is the idea that individuals are especially likely to help other people who are from the same place. Rob’s friends felt especially inclined to inform Rob of the job opportunity because he and his friends shared a special connection from their American identity and their unique experience balancing this with their Swedish education. Not only did Rob’s friends help him and Veronica reduce the costs and risks associated with the migration process by connecting him to a job, but also by offering a place to stay. Veronica recalls that after they “sort of landed here” in the United States, they “stayed with friends,” initially while getting adjusted.
Integration
Not only were Rob’s friends and relatives in the United States a primary contributing factor in Rob and Veronica’s decision to migrate, but also a critical component in their adjustment to the United States. Because Rob and Veronica were able to figure out many logistical components of their migration process, like where they would stay initially and Rob being able to secure a job in the U.S., Veronica describes that “in the beginning, it was just a lot of exploration. And that was, you know, all sort of fun.”
Both Rob and Veronica have previously spent time in the United States, so the environment was not completely new to either of them. Rob, having grew up in California, was very familiar with the norms and culture of the U.S., but still went through a process of integration after his time in Sweden. Veronica explains that “the hard part was actually in a sense that Rob, he moved, what sort of college age right, so he hadn’t really been an adult,” going on to emphasize that steps of the immigration process, such as obtaining a driver’s license, “were new for him, too. But less exciting.” These steps were slightly more exciting for Veronica because she had only been to the U.S. once before for a few months after high school, when she experienced what she described as the “first taste of the US.” Veronica made an important distinction between simply visiting the U.S. vs being in the states with the intention of living there, highlighting that experiencing the culture of the U.S. while balancing trying to work out how to live there is, in her words, “a mix of both, I think excitement, and I don’t understand… confusion! Confusion.”
In addition to many difficult elements of the process of getting adjusted to life in the United States described by Veronica, such as making friends while living in an apartment and commuting to work, she explained that the most difficult part of leaving and adjusting to a new environment was leaving family. When Rob and Veronica left Sweden, many technological advancements that make communication across long distances easier had not been invented yet or were not being regularly utilized. Veronica described how much of a difference that technology has made in making living far from family easier, stating “now it’s like oh, ding dong, you know, somebody or whatever calls on WhatsApp or FaceTime? It’s right there.” Technology has also made celebrating the holidays across long distances easier, as Veronica points out that “we can even send Christmas gifts via Amazon.”
Photo courtesy: Veronica Yarbray
Although Rob and Veronica encountered a number of challenges when they initially began adjusting to life in the United States, there were many aspects of their integration into U.S. culture which were pleasant and exciting. In her recount of what the first days were like being in the United States, Veronica explained that she immediately noticed how “nice and warm” the weather is and how it is far more predictable from weather patterns in Sweden. Additionally, Veronica recalls immediate curiosity surrounding local attractions surrounding the area Rob and Veronica chose to move to: northern Virginia. Veronica recalls, “And then being close to DC, you know, you can just go in there and whatever, you know, look at the White House and everything.”
Being a notable tourist destination, Washington D.C. and the surrounding areas see many visitors from all around the world. Veronica explained that she has encountered many Swedish people since moving to the United States, specifically near the Swedish Embassy that she explains she has visited for a variety of events. She recalls,
“And it always happens, I will walk down the street somewhere, and I will hear Swedish people talking…just tourists right?”
When Rob and Veronica first came to the U.S. together from Sweden, Veronica recalls that they would get very excited and approach individuals they heard speaking Swedish. She explained that this is precisely how her and Rob met many of their friends in the U.S, “And that is how we, you know, stumbled upon some of our friends. Because we just, you know, we heard Swedish and you start talking.”
Language is an important element to one’s cultural identity and shared community. Veronica explained that she already knew English before she came over to the United States, being exposed to basic English knowledge early in her time in school and in the media. She elaborated upon this, stating,
“And plus, like TV programs and everything doesn’t get it just sort of the closed captioning kind of thing. It’s you still hear English and whatnot. So it’s still around you.”
Another important context of reception to consider is the education system, specifically the school and how welcoming or unwelcoming it is to both immigrant students and parents. Since living in the U.S., Rob and Veronica have had two children: Wyatt and Linnea. Veronica recalls when her oldest, Wyatt, began Kindergarten and the initial fear of the unknown, thinking “Oh my gosh, I’ve never been in an American school, like ever…” But now that her kids have been attending public school in Northern Virginia for a few years, she explained that “it’s not that different,” but that “schools are bigger here!” One reason she explained that they have had a positive experience with the U.S. education system as a whole is because she has felt that “there’s always been people kind of to ask,” referring to her friends who have older kids. Overall, in regard to raising children in the United States, Veronica stated that she feels she is “sort of learning with them.”
Membership
Today, Veronica has completed the naturalization process and is a legal citizen of the United States. However, she explained that her and Rob also feel “it’s almost like we’ve had an automatic connection to Swedish people or Sweden as a whole,” because Rob works very closely with Sweden for his job and because they have many Swedish friends with whom Veronica explained they “get together with them around certain celebrations,” and that this “helps as well to just sort of keep… yeah that Swedish connection in the sense.” In many other small ways, Veronica blends the Swedish culture with her experience in America, cooking traditional Swedish recipes, reading Swedish stories to her children, and more.
Veronica explained that her and Rob have implemented a “mix” of American and Swedish holidays and celebrations for their children Wyatt and Linnea. They celebrate Christmas with their own touch: “there’s a lot of fish involved as well. So we definitely have that and more. It’s, it’s more of a smorgasbord.” She goes on to state that “in Sweden, you actually get presents from Santa and Santa comes in the evening on Christmas Eve.” Rob and Veronica celebrate Swedish holidays with Wyatt and Linnea as well, celebrating midsummer at the beginning of the summer as a “family and lots of friends event.”
Wyatt and Linnea have grown up in the United States but make frequent visits to Sweden to visit family and chat with family members constantly over the phone via FaceTime. Wyatt and Linnea have been challenged with balancing dual identities as well, growing up immersed in a blend of Swedish and American culture. Veronica explained that the Swedish tradition of being woken up on your birthday with gifts in the morning is one that her children especially enjoy and she stated, “that’s something that the kids are even, like, they think it’s strange that people don’t do that.” Veronica went on to describe that her children love visiting Sweden, specifically mentioning that Wyatt wrote that he is thankful for Sweden in an assignment for school. She expressed how grateful she is that Wyatt and Linnea are growing up “being a part of two cultures” and “knowing they’re a part of something outside of the US too,” because it helps their worldview as she explains there are always “two sides to every story.” Veronica expresses that being an immigrant and having ties to two cultures helps give “more of an overall picture of things,” and that this is so important today.
Conclusion
Today, immigration is a hot topic for debate. Many individuals look at immigrants only with concern for their legal status, rather than viewing them as human beings. My hope is that by continuing to shed light on the stories of immigrants, it will remind us that we are all human. I know that my project only touches the surface of Veronica’s experiences immigrating to the United States, but my hope is that I have captured her story in an honorable way.
Olivia Holt 0:00
Starting on my laptop. So my name is Olivia, I’ll be interviewing you today. I guess you can just introduce yourself your name, and then we’ll get into where did you immigrate from and how old were you when you came over?
Veronica Yarbray 0:16
Right. Okay, so I’m Veronica. And yeah, I live here in Northern Virginia, and moved from Sweden. And I’m really thinking hard right now… In 99! 1999.
Olivia Holt 0:34
So how old were you?
Veronica Yarbray 0:35
I was then 20… oh, boy… 25. Yeah, so and we actually… so I got here because my husband is from the US. He’s from California, but moved to Sweden to go to school. And then after he graduated, we met. And then we had talked about, should we stay in Sweden? Shall we sort of try moving back here, so to speak? So we moved here, and we actually moved, like, straight after our wedding, literally. So yes, it was an interesting honeymoon…
Olivia Holt 1:08
Yeah. So what was that process like of getting approved to come over with the marriage?
Veronica Yarbray 1:16
Very, very interesting. In the sense of it does take some time, first of all, and I grew up in southern Sweden, which is really close to Denmark, and the capital of Denmark, and actually closer than the capital of Sweden, which is Stockholm. And it’s important because there’s an embassy, right? US Embassy in both locations. But because we live so close to Denmark, we were actually allowed to go to the US Embassy in Denmark, which has nothing to do with Swedish citizenship, but it’s closer. So that was nice. So we, um, I remember because Rob had to go there, too. So we both took the train, whatever, over there. And that’s sort of how the process started. We got a bunch of forms to fill out. And actually, I think we had filled out some stuff at home first was forms that have been sent home from the Embassy in Sweden. And then when we got the form in Denmark, and we’re like, but these are not like the same thing, or whatever. Or we’d filled out this, but now you’re asking us to fill out that like, what, what’s going on? And we get the answer of: Oh, yeah, but you know, different embassies have different paperwork. But we’re like you but wait a minute. It’s all the US? So I’m like you don’t have the same process… okay. I mean it makes sense maybe if it’s a different regions, but it’s like Denmark and Sweden.
Olivia Holt 2:45
Right, I can’t imagine how much paperwork and how confusing it all is.
Veronica Yarbray 2:51
Yeah so it was that. And then we had, I never had to take an interview, but I have to show up in person, and then you have to go through some… um or at least then you have to go through some, like medical checks that special, approved American doctor for something and take X rays of your lungs and all sorts of things, you know that you sort of thought you were all healthy?
Olivia Holt 3:15
Yeah. So they never questioned if your marriage was legitimate or not?
Veronica Yarbray 3:19
No they didn’t! Which is interesting, right? Because you hear the story, right? And we had friends in Sweden who had gone through that, but they started the process in the US, we realized that’s probably different. Right? Like, so, you know, Rob being over there. And then just meeting someone who wants to go to the US? I think they like that’s a little bit too far… like far fetched, right? So… but we have to still prove, you know, pictures of vacations together and that type of stuff, right?
Olivia Holt 3:51
Yeah. So how often do you have to do that now?
Veronica Yarbray 3:55
So the first time, I had to do it after two years, I think that’s part of the sort of the proving that, hey, we’re still married. And then after that, it was I think it went into 10 years, five or 10 years after that, which is of course, something you don’t really keep an eye on, because it’s so long. So I remember the second time was like, Oh my! Like, that’s coming up! Right? Let’s fill out everything again. And you have to, yes, and then some more pictures, but then it got a little bit easier. Because I think they realize, okay, you’re still there.
Olivia Holt 4:31
Right. So when you did come over, did you guys go to California?
Veronica Yarbray 4:36
No. So we actually… Rob had gotten a job here on the east coast because of, or connected with, one of his American friends who also studied with him in Sweden. And so we decided to sort of settle here because it’s so close to Europe so he could take advantage of, you know, that experience as well. And Yeah, so we sort of landed here, stayed with friends, and we went down and saw some of Rob’s relatives. And then we got our apartment. And then here comes all of our stuff from Sweden. You know? Like, oh my gosh, right.
Olivia Holt 5:16
Forgot about it almost!
Veronica Yarbray 5:19
Yeah. And that’s, uh, yeah. So that’s where how the whole thing started.
Olivia Holt 5:23
So you, you guys came to Virginia…
Veronica Yarbray 5:26
Mhmm…
Olivia Holt 5:26
Sort of and then here now…
Veronica Yarbray 5:28
Yep.
Olivia Holt 5:28
Gotcha. So, before you came to the United States, did you have any sort of preconceived ideas about it, and maybe what the immigration process might be like and…
Veronica Yarbray 5:41
Um so I have been in the US before, for like, six months, right after high school, um, we have some friends over in California, or still have friends, family friends. And so I had been there, and sort of gotten the first taste of the US, I guess it wasn’t all new. But it’s still different. When you come here and you… to to live, right? And just the basics of, you know, getting a driver’s license and the bank account and just going to the store and, you know, are really looking for things to whatever, you know, cook with and stuff. And it’s a mix of both, I think excitement and, like, I don’t understand… confusion! Confusion.
Olivia Holt 6:28
Yeah.
Veronica Yarbray 6:29
Um, and I don’t necessarily, I mean, I think that before, before we moved, and even coming here, right, like, more of an excitement thing, and able to sort of, yeah, then just exciting to new stuff. The hard part was actually in a sense that Rob, he moved, what sort of college age right, so he hadn’t really been an adult. So he wasn’t even sure either, like, Okay, we’re going to find the DMVs. Like, I got driver’s license years ago, and things like bank account, I barely remember if I had one. You know? And so all of those things were new for him, too. But less exciting.
Olivia Holt 7:15
Yeah.
Veronica Yarbray 7:16
I was more like, Whoa, this is fun. And he’s like, why is this so difficult? You know, I should know this stuff. But you know, you go, you go through it. And you figure out the different systems eventually.
Olivia Holt 7:30
Yeah. Was there anything you weren’t expecting about getting adjusted and just the whole process of coming over?
Veronica Yarbray 7:38
Uh, yeah. I mean, one of the things was, it wasn’t very difficult to get a driver’s license first of all, because that’s a big process in Sweden. Um, the other thing I think we also realized, like in Sweden, a lot of people live in apartments for a long time. Right? Here, it was kind of like, you know, in and out, everybody sort of, like, every year! So, we’re like oh we’re not gonna find any friends here. Probably because everybody’s like out very quickly. Uh, the commute is interesting. In Sweden, well, just because we also live close to work and whatever, we could just, you know, walk or bike or potentially take the bus, right. And then here, you know, sitting in traffic kind of wears on you.
Olivia Holt 8:28
Oh, yeah. Well, and people, you know, don’t bike to work really…
Veronica Yarbray 8:32
No you can’t, right!
Olivia Holt 8:33
They… yeah, people, people drive and 66 is a mess. Um, well I guess you kindof answered this already, but any parts that were like, especially difficult? Just in the process of leaving and initially getting here?
Veronica Yarbray 8:52
I mean, the hard part was definitely leaving family. And then that’s the hard part, right? You’re like, Okay, we are going to do this. It’s not that far away, but it’s still far enough. And, believe it or not, and this is gonna sound extremely old, you know but it was: we didn’t email. Right? Like it was just starting, right. I remember emailing my professors at school when because I just graduated as well. And yeah, that’s a whole different thing in Sweden, but, um, but it was sort of like you randomly contacted people that way. Right? But it wasn’t like a thing.
Olivia Holt 9:32
Right…
Veronica Yarbray 9:32
So it wasn’t, you know, so. And, you know, all the apps and whatever else that you can call for free wasn’t there. So we, it was more like… ooh we’re making a phone call to Sweden!
Olivia Holt 9:43
Right!
Veronica Yarbray 9:43
You know? Like oh, I got a letter from Sweden!
Olivia Holt 9:46
Right…
Veronica Yarbray 9:46
Now it’s like oh, ding dong, you know, somebody or whatever calls on WhatsApp or FaceTime? It’s right there.
Olivia Holt 10:03
Yeah.
Veronica Yarbray 10:03
So I think that was, like looking back, that was… that was harder in a sense, because you couldn’t talk to family as often as you wanted.
Olivia Holt 10:03
So do you, do you feel now like very connected through technology and social media? And does your family use a lot of that?
Veronica Yarbray 10:13
Yeah. I mean, we do when we look at the kids, right? Like they, I mean, if somebody actually calls without, you know, actually seeing them for some reason, or whatever, if the camera doesn’t work, or something. I mean, they just expect that’s how they communicate between each family, right? They’re like, why aren’t they on the phone, you know? Um, so yeah, and I mean, now it’s seamless, right?
Olivia Holt 10:39
Yeah.
Veronica Yarbray 10:39
Like we can even send Christmas gifts via Amazon. No, so it’s a whole different world.
Olivia Holt 10:47
Well, I guess speaking of Christmas, um, are there any, like, traditions and things that you brought over from Sweden and even Rob too that, like, so you have two children, Wyatt and Linnea, that you have kind of wanted them to grow up with and you wanted to bring over?
Veronica Yarbray 11:06
Yeah, I think I mean, we do kind of a mix. Right? Um, and Rob was probably more adamant about the Christmas food than I am. But we do, like we always have a ham like there’s question, right? Like turkey? No, turkey’s for Thanksgiving. You know? Ham is for Christmas.
Olivia Holt 11:25
Yeah.
Veronica Yarbray 11:26
And then we have, there’s a lot of fish involved as well. So we definitely have that and more. It’s, it’s more of a smorgasbord.
Olivia Holt 11:36
Yeah, oh yeah!
Veronica Yarbray 11:40
You know, so it’s that we have meatballs. Well, of course, this. Yeah, potatoes, which is also another staple food kind of thing. So we do do that around Christmas. Christmas Eve is the big event in Sweden. But and so in Sweden, you actually get presents from Santa and Santa comes in the evening on Christmas Eve. And that makes sense, because that’s closer to the North Pole. And then overnight, he obviously travels here so that people here can wake up with it,
Olivia Holt 12:17
Gotcha… Okay that does…
Veronica Yarbray 12:19
It’s all so planned out!
Olivia Holt 12:22
But I guess moving beyond food to anything that like Swedish tradition or anything that you is really special to you even still being in America?
Veronica Yarbray 12:32
Yeah I think… well, there’s a couple of things. I think there’s one: for birthdays, actually, or you always, like your family comes in and wakes you up with gifts in the morning. And, and so that’s something that the kids are even, like, they think it’s strange that people don’t do that. Like, still, they’re like, No, you do it in the morning. So that’s something that’s just sort of special in terms of, that’s how I grew up, right. And now, you know, my kids are sort of thinking the same thing. And then there are different holidays, that it kind of becomes more… or that are more Swedish, right? But it’s not necessarily as I mean, there’s the bigger ones, right? Like, yeah, Christmas and Easter and things like that. And then we have more well, we have mid summer, which we sort of we sometimes celebrate it or not sort of the beginning of summer, because it’s more like a family lots of friends event type of thing. So but yeah!
Olivia Holt 13:35
Gotcha. So I guess coming back to kind of the initial coming over and transition so you guys, you and Rob, knew you kind of had that conversation… wanted to come to the United States… what was sort of the main like pull for coming to the United States versus staying in Sweden?
Veronica Yarbray 13:58
So I think it was part because… I mean Rob had been in Sweden for about 10 years by the time we moved, and for him… I mean, he had sort of settled into “Yeah, I’m gonna stay in Sweden.” But I think we were talking, we’re like okay if we should sort of quote try it right? At some point to try the American life, it’s now we should do it: we didn’t have a house you know, we don’t have kids, so we’re like let’s go over because otherwise we might regret it. You know? So let’s go over we’ll try and yeah, figure it out, right? And see if we enjoy it or not. And you know, if we get jobs and everything else, and then because we had friends here again, that Rob went to school with in Sweden who live here, so we had something right. And then because they help Rob get his job, so there was something, it wasn’t like we were just moving and trying to figure things out so that’s sort of you know, helped as well. But I think the main thing was just Yeah. Should we do it? We should do it now.
Olivia Holt 15:05
Right? That process is definitely way more difficult with kids and trying to get them re-adjusted. And so I guess going back, you said, kind of excited, but a little overwhelmed. Like, how, how were those first few days like being in the US?
Veronica Yarbray 15:27
Um, well, I think again, it was more excitement, you know, in the beginning, we got here in the summertime, too. And so part of it was just like, “oh, my gosh, the weather is awesome,” right? It’s so nice and warm. And because in Sweden you have summers, obviously, sort of as well, but it’s, it’s less warm, less hot. But it’s also very, you never know, it could be 50’s one week and then 80s the next week, right? Here, it was like we can actually plan on being in the pool, you know, every weekend, right? So that was sort of… yeah it was just a lot of excitement, I think. And then being close to DC, you know, you can just go in there and whatever, you know, look at the White House and everything. And that was new for Rob as well. So I think yeah, in the beginning, it was just a lot of exploration. And that was, you know, all sort of fun. And so,
Olivia Holt 16:31
Yeah, so did you have to learn English before you came? Or did you learn once you’d already been here?
Veronica Yarbray 16:40
Yeah. So we learned… Or when I went to school, I think starting third or fourth grade, we started learning English. I think now they actually do it earlier, but more basic stuff. So I did know how to speak English. And plus, like, TV programs and everything doesn’t get it just sort of the closed captioning kind of thing. It’s you still hear English and whatnot. So it’s still around you. But I think there’s, you know, there’s there’s still things that you just don’t know, like, you don’t catch all the jokes, you know, right? Whatever. Just sort of everything. Language has changed.
Olivia Holt 17:31
Yeah.
Veronica Yarbray 17:32
And even Rob was like, not used to all the slang. He’d been gone for so long too.
Olivia Holt 17:37
Yeah. Well and English is specifically a very difficult language to learn. So, um, I guess going back to sort of getting adjusted to everything, was there ever, like a time where you just felt total culture shock? Like any specific things that stand out?
Veronica Yarbray 17:59
Um yeah, I will say, I mean, every now and then it was just things randomly that, you know, whatever. Yeah, the, or the commute or something, those things, but I will say, so this was then we have been here for about two years and 9/11 happened. And I remember that. I mean, that was a shock for everyone, obviously. But I didn’t necessarily recognize at the time, but sort of fairly quickly after that. I mean, I didn’t have any… I mean, in, I mean in the US, at least, right? People… not grew up, but you know, your grandparents or your parents, right? That’ve gone through whatever Second World War, you know – Vietnam. Well, there’s some military is a big thing, right. And again, like I said, was a shock to everyone here, but I had like nothing, right. I mean, Sweden’s last war was what? 1700 something? You know? And I’m like, so some people attacked, like what? And I also remember because it was such a patriotic time, right? And there was flags everywhere. And I started getting like, we have to have like, more than one flag type of thing and Rob was like, “I think it’s fine,” right? But I was like, “No, we need to get more American like just stuff on the mailbox,” or whatever, right? It’s just sort of and I don’t it wasn’t like I was treated differently in any way at all. But I just I think I was just grasping to something like to show or sort of feel more connected somehow to the Americans sort of…
Olivia Holt 19:43
Yeah, well it was a… it was definitely a big kind of coming together like nationalist thing and you know being not being from here not knowing maybe like the importance of the buildings that were hit and all of those things… feeling kind of lost… out of the loop sort of thing, I guess kind of you were saying like you weren’t really looked at differently. Do you think if you had immigrated here from maybe like Mexico or sort of do you think like being from Sweden that, like was different or?
Veronica Yarbray 20:15
Yeah, I mean, I think there’s, I mean, again, at the time, there was like a million people or something. So and at that time, too, it wasn’t that many people. I mean, people moved to the US or what to school and whatnot. It’s such a small country, so it’s kind of like, “oh, you’re from Sweden… oh okay great,” whatever. It’s like coming from a different state almost. And so I think it’s different because like, yeah, Mexico, whatever. It’s more… I mean, there’s just, there’s more of Mexico than Sweden, like more people from Mexico than from Sweden. So I think it’s just, yeah, it was more like, “oh, that’s cool. You’re not from America,” you don’t know what Sweden is at all, you know but “good for you!” you know?
Olivia Holt 21:04
Yeah, well, and I think to bringing up 9/11 I think that definitely changed a lot of attitudes around immigration too. So coming over before that, definitely was I think it probably would have been pretty different, and maybe a more difficult process to get entry after that. Um, well, so are there any ways I guess we kind of touched on this earlier, but you that you try to keep sort of ties with Swedish culture and bouncing, like, you know, after 911 wanting to bring in the American stuff, but kind of balancing the two cultures and sort of identity within that?
Veronica Yarbray 21:45
I think, um, no, I mean, definitely. We, I mean, there’s a Swedish Embassy in DC, and sometimes they have events, and things like that. So I haven’t been there in a while. Well, in last few years, nobody has went anywhere, but but I would go into that, you know, sometimes, and yeah, just attend various events and whatnot. And Rob working so closely, too, with Sweden over the years, it’s almost like we’ve had an automatic connection to Swedish people or Sweden as a whole. We do have a lot of Swedish friends here, actually, as well. And so we do get together with them around certain celebrations, or, or, you know, and that always, I think, helps as well to just sort of keep… yeah, that Swedish connection in the sense… just daily life ish? Right?
Olivia Holt 22:46
Yeah just to have people that get it.
Veronica Yarbray 22:48
Yeah. No, exactly. Exactly.
Olivia Holt 22:51
Um, so we touched on the culture shock. Are there any aspects I guess, you know, the culture shock we touched on this, but are there any aspects of US culture that you just can’t really wrap your head around? Or maybe get behind anything? Even now current or in the past? I mean, even for me, I can probably think of some…
Veronica Yarbray 23:14
I mean yeah I have to think too… Yeah, some that’s strange… Not necessarily… I mean, no not necessarily strange. I don’t think… just the one of the things that is more funny, like, you get into the culture, a bit, which I know some real sweet friends are thinking too, but it is the holidays, right? But we all remember watching Christmas vacation and so I’m like, This is odd. Okay ha ha but like not sort of getting the jokes. And then now we’ve all been here like through you know, sort of Thanksgiving, American Christmas, so to speak…
Olivia Holt 24:03
Right.
Veronica Yarbray 24:04
And you’re like, oh, yeah, I totally get it now! So it’s nothing that is wrong, you know, whatever. But it’s just the differences of um totally not getting it when you’re in Sweden and now like “oh yeah ha ha!”
Olivia Holt 24:21
Like you, you understand the joke but well and holidays are so big here too like we I feel like it was crazy. Like I saw Christmas stuff coming out before Halloween. Like really crazy. Is it is it like that over in Sweden about around holidays?
Veronica Yarbray 24:40
Yeah I mean it is getting more and more. I mean, and again, Halloween is another thing we never celebrated Halloween growing up but now we’re actually starting to do more of that even. But and I think a lot of that is because of you know you watch American movies you know, things like that. But now I do know that they’re saying too it’s getting close, I mean, or earlier and earlier, you start seeing all the decorations and things out. But I think that’s something that’s definitely more here. Sort of going back to the last conversation of. I mean, yeah, we celebrate Christmas in Sweden, too. And most everybody does, but But it’s definitely bigger, you know? Like everything in the U.S. is bigger!
Olivia Holt 25:30
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Veronica Yarbray 25:33
The holidays. Right. Like, it’s, you know, you won’t see. Like, if you saw a lot of the like, you know, all the blow up things. Right? It’s like, it would be like… huh, that’s an odd thing in Sweden…
Olivia Holt 25:49
Does your family ever make comments about like American culture?
Veronica Yarbray 25:53
Oh yes
Olivia Holt 25:54
I’m sure. Ha ha…
Veronica Yarbray 25:55
You know, they do. They totally do. And it’s anything from, you know, me and the kids, right, obviously, but having sort of a real American accent, you know, something now, right, or? Yeah, it’s the everything is much bigger. I remember a few years ago, I hadn’t seen them before, but you know what they do? I think it was before Thanksgiving, like a butter thing that they made into, you know like a turkey or something?
Olivia Holt 26:28
Oh, yeah, like carving it…
Veronica Yarbray 26:29
Yeah exactly! And I was like oh, boy only in the US…
Olivia Holt 26:35
Would they carve their butter? Right?
Veronica Yarbray 26:37
Exactly and I remember because that was still you know, every time you do run into fun things still, right? They’re like, oh yeah.
Olivia Holt 26:47
Right. Well, so I guess like, that’s interesting. Like, how has like the food been different? Like probably bigger portions? Maybe and…
Veronica Yarbray 26:57
it’s always more and still this bigger portions. And it’s much more well, and also more common to go outside to or go outside, but go to restaurants here. That’s always been a difference in because it just cost more money in Sweden. I think people do go out more now to restaurant but it’s not like here. Like, let’s go in. I don’t know. I mean, pizza is not a good example but…
Olivia Holt 27:26
Probably less of like a fast food industry…
Veronica Yarbray 27:28
Yeah.
Olivia Holt 27:29
Emphasis on, like, fast food more of like, making eating out an event sort of thing.
Veronica Yarbray 27:35
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Olivia Holt 27:36
Gotcha. Well, so going back to Wyatt and Linnea, you know, what was it like, you know, raising kids in the US compared to you know, being raised in Sweden?
Veronica Yarbray 27:47
Right… I mean, so part of part of it is one of like, I’m learning with them. Right. And I think just… well Wyatt since he’s older, started kindergarten. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, I’ve never been in an American school, like ever, you know? And I mean it’s not that different. But again, schools are bigger here!
Olivia Holt 28:11
Oh, yeah!
Veronica Yarbray 28:12
You know? Some yeah, so I’m sort of learning with them? I think… But I think it’s sort of, we just get used to it. And I mean, it’s all been positive, too. So I mean, luckily, right. So there hasn’t been many times where I’ve been like, oh, well, you know, Sweden, it would have been great…
Olivia Holt 28:35
Right, right, well I was gonna say this area too in specific… There’s great schools in Northern Virginia. And was that something you looked at too, when you guys moved here?
Veronica Yarbray 28:46
No! Ha ha!
Olivia Holt 28:46
I guess, I guess it was mainly the job…
Veronica Yarbray 28:48
Yeah at that point we were like “yeah, no…” And then, because we moved to bought a house before having kids and even sort of barely even thinking about right. So it’s like, yeah, but Virginia, you know, all that stuff will figure itself out. And
Olivia Holt 29:07
Right. Well, I guess I kind of already asked this, but you’ve had a positive overall experience with just the US education system and kind of navigating it?
Veronica Yarbray 29:19
Yeah definitely, I think. Yeah, no, it’s sort of, yeah, you learn as you go. Again, a lot of our friends too. They have older kids. And so there’s always been people kind of to ask anyway. If it sort of needed but yeah, no we’ve all we’ve had a positive experience.
Olivia Holt 29:41
So how often do you travel back home and how often do Wyatt and Linnea get to go to Sweden?
Veronica Yarbray 29:48
Yeah so well hmm, If we get to go summer of 2022, it will have been three years since we saw anyone it’s in one way…. It seems actually… it doesn’t seem as long as when I sort of say it. But other than that, either we would go over there once a year, or somebody was always here like Christmas or summers usually. And then again, we talk to Sweden, so to speak. I mean, probably at least once a week, with someone. And so and they now are at an age to… I mean, they love it – right – like and especially Wyatt I think he’s like, he just the last time we were there, because he sort of all of a sudden realized he wasn’t just sort of hanging out with with, you know, family and friends. But he started getting really interested, just go into the grocery store, right and see different things. And I mean, some things are the same, right, like taking the local bus downtown, but we don’t do that here, you know? There’s not… it’s just different. So he’s starting to really enjoy that. And, and I think to like, just like he said the other day, or actually, they written some assignment in school about Thanksgiving and what you’re thankful for, and he’s like, “I love… I’m thankful for Sweden, I love going there everything from like, just walking into the airport, you know… everything…”
Olivia Holt 31:26
Awww
Veronica Yarbray 31:57
And then, and then I think to when we land, there’s always like, the crowd, right? Like “hello!” you know? So I’m like, yeah, he’s starting, you know, to see it like that. Um, Linnea also, and she has a cousin who is just two months older than her, so so she always looked forward to seeing her too. And yeah, so it’s they definitely they enjoy it, for sure. And so they’re also now like, oh, my gosh, when are we able to go back?
Olivia Holt 31:57
Awww
Veronica Yarbray 31:57
So they’re hurting as well… unfortunately…
Olivia Holt 32:01
Yeah. So I mean, COVID is a huge, you know, reason y’all haven’t been there in so long…
Veronica Yarbray 32:05
Yeah, yeah…
Olivia Holt 32:05
But I mean, how do you think, you know, COVID was maybe percieved differently over there. And here and…
Veronica Yarbray 32:12
Well that’s an interesting…
Olivia Holt 32:12
Yeah, I know. That’s probably… that opens up… another…
Veronica Yarbray 32:17
No, I think I mean, overall, I mean, what the, if we’re gonna say anything is good about COVID is that it’s a worldwide thing. Right? So everybody’s getting affected, right? It’s not just here and or something like it’s not just an American thing, it’s a… Yeah, it is different there in this and I think it goes back to overall like vaccinations and stuff. Sweeds, don’t get vaccinated against many of some of the childhood or whatever, you know, things or sicknesses like… I don’t even know if they do measles, actually. But like chickenpox, it’s one of those things of all kids get chickenpox at some point. They don’t vaccinate against a lot of those things.
Olivia Holt 33:05
Yeah.
Veronica Yarbray 33:06
And then from now being a little bit more on the outside, so to speak, and looking in. It wasn’t necessarily surprising that they didn’t shut down as here, they just sort of kept going. And it was all about reaching immunity, you know, and it’s, they let everybody sort of work from home, if you had to, but schools didn’t shut down at all, the high schools did for a little bit. And they basically, then were doing school from home, but everything else was just as normal. They haven’t had any masks requirement. Some people have masks, but it’s definitely different. They are but but again, a lot of people do listen to the overall guidelines or whatnot.
Olivia Holt 33:54
Right. Well, and here, I think it was so much more of a political thing…
Veronica Yarbray 33:57
Yes. Yes.
Olivia Holt 33:58
And I think it still very much is…
Veronica Yarbray 34:00
It is. That didn’t really end up there. It was more of I think, just overall cultural… And how they were able to sort of handle it all, over there too.
Olivia Holt 34:11
Yeah. Well, so do you ever feel sort of maybe a disconnect from your home culture sometimes? And in certain things?
Veronica Yarbray 34:19
Yeah, I mean, in… in a sense, although I think it’s not now at least or whatever. And I’ve almost spent too much time as much time there, then here. And so I guess, I mean, you do end up losing some of the current affairs right or, I, you know, will, I don’t know, some article or something will pop up, you know, and I’m like, I have no idea who these people are. Or like the current artists. I’m like, “Who?” You know? Like no idea… Um and and actually now not too long ago, but I’ve seen some movies here in the US. And there’s a couple of actors. And I was like, “Oh, they’re really cool.” And I for sure thought they were British, and turns out they’re Swedish. And I’m like, “Oh, look at that, good accent then!” Right? And so now it’s looking more like just sort of, yeah,
Olivia Holt 35:21
Yeah
Veronica Yarbray 35:22
Right. Um, or like talking to your dad. You know, who knows more about Sweedish culture…
Olivia Holt 35:26
Right! He gets so into it!
Veronica Yarbray 35:28
I know. And it’s like “Oh have you seen this thing?” And I’m like “No, tell me about it and I’ll go back and watch it.”
Olivia Holt 35:35
Well, I guess I know we said this earlier… But you know, a lot of… not a lot of people come here from Sweden, right? So I guess I was gonna ask, like, do you think people have any stereotypes about Swedish people? Have you ever encountered that?
Veronica Yarbray 35:50
Um, I think what now even since we’ve moved here, right, the world is more not open, but it’s just easier to travel. Right. So there’s a lot more people in Sweden that have been to the US, right. I mean, a lot of people just go to New York for the weekend, which is still a bit difficult. I think but that’s fine. And more people from the US has been, I think, over there too or at least just know more about the region. This sort of inside almost joke… right… for Swedish people for a long time was that… Well, and it goes to the stereotype of Americans rather, you know, yeah, the US is so big, so that Americans don’t necessarily know you know, much about the outside world. And so whenever you would say, I’m from Sweden, people would go like, “Oh, do you miss the Alps?” And we’re like, “No, you mean Switzerland? Right?” No, no. Different right. Or something about your watch or chocolates and we’re like no, no. Or like even Hockey… You know? Or something right…
Olivia Holt 36:59
Swedish Fish…
Veronica Yarbray 37:00
Yes. Exactly. Swedish Fish. You know, Swedish meatballs and we’re like yes but they’re not served the same way…
Olivia Holt 37:11
Like you’re kindove on the right track…
Veronica Yarbray 37:18
Yeah, exactly. Right. And you start, you know, yeah. So do you. Are you into hockey? Are you into soccer? You know, what are you into? And then we can sort of get that correct…
Olivia Holt 37:21
Have you ever, like stumbled upon any… any Swedish people?
Veronica Yarbray 37:23
Oh yes. Um, and yeah, I was in New York, not too, just a few weeks ago. And it always happens, I will walk down the street somewhere, and I will hear Swedish people talking… just tourists, right? And it happened this time too when I was there for like, two days and you know, um, but I think nowadays, it’s more, you know, just fun to hear it. In the beginning, I would have been like, “Oh hello! You’re from Sweeden!” Right? And that is how we, you know, stumbled upon some of our friends. Because we just, you know, we… we heard Swedish and you start talking. And again, the Swedish people we have… most of us say the same thing, right? But in the beginning, we would have been like, “Oh, my gosh, you’re from Sweeden!” and you start talking. Now we’re kind of like, “Oh, yeah, that’s cute. Well you know, we have our friends….”
Olivia Holt 38:17
Yeah you’ve got your people
Veronica Yarbray 38:24
You can figure it out…
Olivia Holt 38:25
But it is, it is so important though to have those people and kind of just someone that knows what it’s like to sort of balance like almost two identities. Probably… Like, do you feel like sometimes when you go home? Like, it’s like, you’re like different?
Veronica Yarbray 38:37
Yeah, I think so. And again, I think it’s more because you’re not maybe exactly up to speed to the latest pop culture, if you want to call it that, right. Which is still an important part of, you know, all cultures, right? Like the “in thing,” or whatnot. Or, like, you know, going, whatever shopping or something and things look differently, or there’s a new store, there’s a new system, there’s always a new like, system, and, I’m, you know, sometimes like, oh, I don’t really know how to pay…
Olivia Holt 39:10
Yeah, right.
Veronica Yarbray 39:11
Um, but again, I think now it’s more like, Well, yeah, I’ve spent, like, similar amount of years in both countries, kind of, so I’m not as… maybe not stressed about it, but it’s kind of like, oh, okay, well, that changed, you know, for a while, I think it was more like, Oh, this is not… because you go back to how you grew up, right? I’m like “Oh, this is strange, Oh, my, huh…” Um, which could be whatever, you know, education system changes or something like that. But now it’s more. I think that just it’s interesting to be part of the culture but still being outside looking in.
Olivia Holt 39:54
Right… Right…
Veronica Yarbray 39:56
You know, because, because, again, that can do the same thing or similar, right? Being thinking more like a Swedish person, if you are looking into the American culture, you’ve been more understanding maybe, or how it is to be in a foreign country… So to speak…
Olivia Holt 40:15
So I guess all in all, do you, like, appreciate being an immigrant and do you think it gives you like a special perspective on things?
Veronica Yarbray 40:23
Yeah. I mean, again, I’ve had a positive experience, right. So it’s never been, you know, I can… negative in any way, right, or felt like, people would treat me differently in a bad way. But I think, yeah, from that perspective, it’s more. Or I mean, maybe that’s also part of my personality, maybe, but to take more of an overall picture of things. And again, like I said, in both cultures, in that, I think, I mean, it always helps, right? There’s always two sides of every story, you know. And I think that’s also good for you know, my kids, right?
Olivia Holt 41:08
Yeah.
Veronica Yarbray 41:10
And their being part of two cultures, I mean, mainly the US, obviously, for them, but they’re sort of… they know they’re part of something else outside of the US too. And I think that helps their worldview…
Olivia Holt 41:23
Oh, yeah definetely…
Veronica Yarbray 41:24
As well…
Olivia Holt 41:25
Well definetely because there’s so much, you know, debate about immigration and immigration policy nowadays…
Veronica Yarbray 41:31
Yeah don’t talk to them about immigration. Oh they’ll tell you the truth. Uh huh, yes. Oh, they get it. And they’re like, “agh!” yeah and I’m like “ahh calm down…”
Olivia Holt 41:43
Well, I guess that wraps things up…
Veronica Yarbray 41:46
Oh goodie!
Olivia Holt 41:46
…for the interview. Thank you so much for your time…
Veronica Yarbray 41:50
Oh thank you!
Olivia Holt 41:50
…and all of this and yeah, that’s a wrap!
Veronica Yarbray 41:54
Okay!
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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