Interview with John Doe
Love at First Sight
The Immigrant Stories Project is aimed to document and capture the stories of immigrants within the United States. For the project, I interviewed a connection made through a friend. My interviewee requested anonymity, is a German immigrant, and has been residing in America for 28 years. This was my first time conducting an interview intended to capture someone’s personal story and my first experience having someone detail their immigration process to me. This project presented many unique challenges and insights through documenting and analyzing an immigrant experience.
Methods
I first began correspondence with my interviewee through email after getting their contact information from a friend. In emails, I explained the intentions of this interview, gave the details of how it would transpire over the course of completing the project, and ensured that they understood their choice in anonymity. My interviewee confirmed his interest in the project, their understanding of how the process would work, and we set a date and time.
The interview was conducted on November 25, 2020 beginning at 7:00 PM. Due to the circumstances of COVID-19, we held the interview virtually from our own homes. My interviewee suggested we use WebEx as our video conference platform since they were familiar with the software for their job and unfamiliar with zoom. I recorded the interview through the WebEx “record” option and downloaded the data to my computer where it would later be converted to an audio file and transcribed. The interview was guided by a pre-made questionnaire meant to aid in creating conversation and retrieving the details of the story. Per request of the interviewee, their name has been kept anonymous and removed from the audio. For the sake of easier reference, the interviewee will be referred to as, John Doe, for the rest of the report. Lastly, the transcription process was aided by Otter.ai which transcribes audio through artificial intelligence and machine learning.
“Immigration” by lcars is licensed under CC BY-NC 2.0
A New Journey Begins
Within class discussion on migration, we have learned about many fascinating theories that examined why migration occurs and analyzed what the history of that process looked like. John Doe’s process of migrating to America is one that differs from the many stories we focused our thoughts and sociological minds on. His story represents the idea that no two immigration stories are going to be the same as each individual must face their own internal and external challenges that the world presents them. Beyond the image of immigration that Doe’s story depicts, it is also a story of finding true love and learning to roll with the changes as they come.
John Doe was born just south of Hanover and grew up in Germany at the foothills of the Black Forest, close to the Swiss border. He shared that he spent a lot of time traveling to Switzerland and other European countries when he lived in Germany, so a large portion of his life there was spent on the road. At just 22 he had already begun traveling internationally for his job and thus where the basis of his immigration first came up. Like many of the theories our class analyzed, Doe’s pull factors to the United States started with job-related interests. He had been working for the company, ABB, in Switzerland as a technical field advisor when he was sent to Michigan in January of 1991 for six months to “overview the installation of some prototype equipment” in a power plant. With no connections in the United States, I asked what life was like being sent to live there for six months. As anticipated, being dropped in Michigan at the end of January is by no means a warm welcome and Doe described it as cold, and emphasized, “I mean, it was really cold.” With a job working twelve to fourteen-hour days at a powerplant though, he did not get too much free time on his hands to be left feeling lonely. By spending what little free time he had travelling with colleagues and absorbing himself in his work, he stated that he acclimated very easily. He credits his ability to adapt so quickly to the minimal barriers he faced and that he was already familiar with the work he was doing. Being fluent in English already, he faced no issues in socializing or communicating with the people around him. Unlike immigrants who face discrimination based on their looks and accents alone, Doe believes he never got asked too many questions about his immigrant identity (beyond a few curious questions on his accent) due to his ethnic background. About halfway through his six-month stay, his future plans to immigrate would become more than just work-related.
“Gateway Plaza – Richmond Virginia” by Sky Noir is licensed under CC BY-NC-ND 2.0
Finding Home
In our class, we have talked about migration as being an inherently social process. Though Doe did not have the social influence of family in America or the intention that family would soon follow, he would meet someone that would largely sway his decision to immigrate. Three months into life in Michigan, on a day not filled with twelve hours of work, he picked up a pizza, met a girl, and they started dating. About ten weeks after dating, they were engaged and married within a year. At 22 years old, he says that marriage was probably “the furthest thing on my mind,” but meeting her changed the course of everything for him immediately and to this day he stresses that, “love at first sight is pretty much possible.” After his six months was up, he was immediately sent back to America to work another six month term in Richmond, Virginia. He fell in love with Richmond’s proximity to travel to the mountains, the water, and historical locations, like D.C. It was the location in Richmond that would then make the offer for him to officially work for them full-time.
With no family in the U.S. to call upon, this led me to question any pushback he received from family, or self-doubts he had. Doe shared that his family had divorced when he was young, so he had grown up for most of his life without the whole of his family anyway. In shifting his time between his mother and grandmother for so many years, when the time came to move away, he explains that, “it wasn’t really hard to leave the family behind.” Even though he was not met with resistance in his moving, he does add that his mother was not too happy to see him move so far away but he explains that, “that’s just life.” In conversation on the decision, his wife shared that she did not think she would be able to pick up and move her life to Germany since she was much closer to her family. This belief solidified the decision that he would accept the work offer by the company and immigrate to the United States.
In class lectures, we analyzed the process of immigration throughout America’s history and the sort of hardships policies have created for immigrants. Some of these policies created issues that furthered ideas around discrimination and made it harder for some to gain entry into America over others. For Doe, immigrating over to the United States was not picture perfect but he describes his overall process as relatively smooth and easy. Complications wise, Doe was supposed to begin work at the Richmond company on June 1, 1992 and his wedding date was set for the end of July. A member of human resources within the company messed up his application for a work visa twice, making his start date of June 1st seem increasingly impossible. I remarked how stressful this must have been for him to which he laughed and coolly stated, “more though for the company than for me.” With his start date unable to be pushed back due to his highly specialized work, he was able to obtain an immigration lawyer through the company to help him apply for a Green Card instead. With the help of the lawyer to help smooth the process out he said, “Let’s speed things up a little,” and went to the Justice of Peace for confirmation to be married a month earlier. I asked him what the process was like with having to shorten the timeline of everything and he said, “Honestly, for us it was real quick and easy… I think for me, it was easy also, since the company had [an] immigration lawyer for me, all my paperwork was correct. There was no issue as it was already pre-sent also, so everything was very well taken care of. I was very well prepared.”
“American Flag” by gharness is licensed under CC BY-NC-SA 2.0
A Big Thumbs Up
Today, having spent more time living in America than he ever did in Germany, Doe describes himself as holding much stronger to his American ties than his German ones. I asked him with all his time here, if he had ever influenced any other family to join him. Unlike our class where we became familiar with stories of families paving the way for one another, Doe does not share this experience. He said,
“I don’t want to say Germans are cold, but the… you see that more in the close-knit community of the Hispanics, which is great… With Germans, we really are not that close to other people…it’s just different mentality for the Western Europeans. That’s unfortunate but, yeah.”
Doe said in speaking to other colleagues who have travelled to America for work, “you either like it, or you hate it.” He loved it immediately, describing how great the wide-open spaces are, and the simplicity in being able to go outdoors and fish whenever you like. To sum up why he loves life in the United States so much, he stated that it is the “freedom” that we have over here to do what we want like, hunt, fish, and own land. At just 23 years old, Doe and his wife bought land and built a house. He said having the opportunity to own his own home has been amazing and that he gives the U.S. a “big thumbs up.” With his love for the country, his family, and career, I asked him if he planned to naturalize. For him, the process of becoming a citizen of the U.S. comes with more apprehension than his immigration did. Doe states,
“America doesn’t care if you’re a dual citizen. It’s Germany who is still very nationalistic in regard to you’re either German or not… So, if I want to keep my German citizenship and become an American citizen, I have to send an application to Germany for them to evaluate if they will allow me to do that. So that’s not quite as simple for me. I mean, technically, I could have become an American citizen in 1997, five years after I was married. But again, like I said, I don’t want to because all my family being in Germany, I just don’t want to give my German citizenship.”
Overall, the experience of John Doe is not the story of hardship that we often hear and associate with immigrating to the United States. His story is one that is filled with a lot of unexpected outcomes that relied on the ability to adapt and accept what life was throwing at him. For Doe, some of the unexpected twists and turns were ones of discovering a new life in a foreign country and finding true love. Overall, Doe’s advice for life is, “just to be open minded. Again, everything that happened to me was not planned, you know, so just sit back.”
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.0 Generic License.
Alexandra Kean 0:00
Could you just start with sharing your name, where you originally born, and how long you’ve been residing in the United States?
Anonymous 0:06
All right. My name is [muted for anonymity], and I was born about hundred kilometers south of Hanover originally, but grew up at the foothills of the Black Forest right at the Swiss border. I pretty much came over, moved over to United States in 1992, that was the middle of 92. I mean, that’s when I moved, officially. So, I was here a few more times prior to that, job related. So, but I mean, I don’t know which one… which dates would you be interested when I officially moved, or when I came here the first time?
Alexandra Kean 0:45
I think when you officially moved, because we’ll have a couple of questions about previous visits.
Anonymous 0:51
Oh okay, very well.
Alexandra Kean 0:52
What were the reasons for wanting to immigrate to the United States or in other words, the push and pull factors?
Anonymous 1:00
My wife. She, she was much closer to her family than I was to mine, and she couldn’t see herself moving to Europe. So, that’s why I came over here, mainly.
Alexandra Kean 1:18
How old were you when you immigrated?
Anonymous 1:21
20? Let’s see, yeah, 23.
Alexandra Kean 1:26
So, was that, you know at 23, was that a big deal for you and your family?
Anonymous 1:33
Not for me. I mean, I’ve been traveling for my job, internationally anyways and now to me it wasn’t big. I mean, I liked it here, so that wasn’t a big deal at all.
Alexandra Kean 1:44
Yeah, I know a lot of people from America where like, that’s a huge deal at 23. That’s for some, I’d say the norm for a lot of families that’s like, “Whoa, what are you doing?”[laughs]
Anonymous 1:54
I was 23 when I got married also. So, I mean, that’s… yeah.
Alexandra Kean 2:02
Did you have other family that immigrated before you, or did you kind of have to leave all your family behind to come to the U.S.?
Anonymous 2:09
All my family’s in Germany, and nobody else was here.
Alexandra Kean 2:14
That’s a big move.
Anonymous 2:16
Well, parents were divorced, so I mean, I really didn’t grow up much with my family anyway. So, I grew up with my mom, then with my grand mom, then back with my mom, so yeah, I mean, it wasn’t really hard to leave the family behind.
Alexandra Kean 2:30
And so, I guess with that, that the decision was pretty much supported. I know a lot of the stories we hear it’s; you know, they’re having to come over, bring family over with them or there’s a lot of pushback from family. So, it’s interesting to hear the differences, that you had a lot of independence in the decision.
Anonymous 2:50
Yeah, but my mom wasn’t really happy. I mean, more though now than back then but yeah, she’s like, “Oh, baby so far away,” you know that’s just life.
Alexandra Kean 3:00
Yep.
Anonymous 3:00
To me, that’s life.
Alexandra Kean 3:02
Very true. Okay, so circling back to- you said this wasn’t the first time in the United States. What were the other experiences? Why had you come before?
Anonymous 3:12
All right, first time was beginning of 1991. I worked for a company in Switzerland as a technical field advisor and I came over on a B-1 visa for six months to Michigan to install – overview, the installation of some prototype equipment in the power plant in Michigan, and that was first time. That’s where I met my wife. Then I came back over in the fall of ’91, for another six months on a business visa to Richmond because our company, it was… the company was ABB, they are Brown Boveri. We have a shop in Richmond, and I was overseeing the assembly of the prototype equipment. I saw in, whether they had the oversight in Michigan, but they had to produce some of those components and ship them to a Peterbilt in Korea. So, I for six months, I was in charge of the assembly… to overview the assembly in Richmond.
Alexandra Kean 4:19
Wow!
Anonymous 4:20
So on that, pretty much was an easy transition too because pretty much for being a transfer afterwards, but I went home again, probably May, and came back about a month later on some vacation.
Alexandra Kean 4:39
That’s impressive! Was it a big jump in the work that you were doing back home or was this- did this kind of transfer over?
Anonymous 4:47
Now, it was I mean, as a technical field advisor, I worked on the same equipment in the field, now I just did it on a shop basis.
Anonymous 4:55
Okay.
Anonymous 4:57
And hence, but I migrated- immigrated over in 1992. I mean, the company was supposed to, or they tried to get me over here on a work visa- work permit, I think was an L-1 visa and we had a new lady in human resources, and she actually messed up the application twice, so the… ultimately the work visa was denied. I was supposed to have started June 1, 1992 in Richmond. That’s my official starting date, which did not flourish. So, I mean, you probably want to ask the questions later about the green card, how I came over here, visa or whatever. Again, the first two times was in a business visa, the third time, the company really… they needed me to start in Richmond, because I was real specialized in the work I did. But again, told my company, I said, “Guys listen, my wedding date is in end of July.” We had our wedding day plan and everything else, and so what I can do, I just go to the justice of peace. I get married a month earlier, we’ll get the stuffs started July 1, and said, “Well, but you will… I mean, if I do that, I want you to help me out with the Permanent Resident Card- the green card,” because I know one of the questions is going to be if I had a sponsor or not. But I mean, I really didn’t have a sponsor or anything. But I had my company get an immigration lawyer, just to get the process pushed through smoothly, which I found out in the aftereffect, it saved the company about two plus thousand dollars by them helping me out with a green card because the L-1 Visa was about $3,500 or even $5,000. Don’t Remember. It only came back to $1200 bucks, that’s it. So, it helped them out a lot [laughs].
Alexandra Kean 7:03
Yeah, I would say [laughs].
Anonymous 7:06
So, yeah, there was nothing special anyway since we already had… everything was in plan, was the wedding and the whole nine yards. So, I mean, I said “Let’s speed things up a little.”
Alexandra Kean 7:17
Wow, that sounds really stressful, though.
Anonymous 7:20
More though, for the company than for me [laughs]. They needed me to start and I couldn’t legally start until I had either the right visa or social security, which a social security number you got after you had your visa, or your green card approved pretty much, you know, all together.
Alexandra Kean 7:41
How did your wife feel about the situation of, you know, the wedding was coming up and then everything was going on with the visa?
Anonymous 7:50
She just sat back and just not too much. She didn’t care. I mean, she was already moved from Michigan to Virginia and was almost- all good. So, we just had an extra trip back to Michigan for the justice of peace, and I mean, the wedding was in Michigan, regardless. We just had an extra trip, and all this time it was paid, anyways, still working for Switzerland at the time, so it was no problem.
Alexandra Kean 8:18
Well, it sounds like you guys handled that very well. I would have been very stressed [laughs].
Anonymous 8:23
Well, she was stressed because of course she had to come to Norfolk with me to the INS and sit there waiting from the crack of dawn till we, finally, were able to get into the office for the interview.
Alexandra Kean 8:39
What was the interview process like?
Anonymous 8:42
Honestly, for us it was real quick and easy. I mean, [phone rings] we had everything planned. So there was really… it was easy, quick, few questions, and I mean, nothing like the movie “Green Card.” You know, if you’ve seen that movie before. I mean, it was real simple for us. I mean, because, obviously, I mean, when we went in there, I mean, again, the two little lovebirds, you know, per se, and was no problem there.
Alexandra Kean 9:11
Well, that’s great. I’m happy to hear that because that is one of the things is, you know, they talk about that process and it’s so… it always sounds so daunting.
Anonymous 9:18
I think for me, it was easy also since the company has immigration lawyer for me, all my paperwork was correct. There was no issue as it was already pre-sent also, so everything was very well taken care of. I was very well prepared.
Alexandra Kean 9:34
That sounds great.
Anonymous 9:35
Yep, and to follow up after two years because your green card is temporary- only for two years when you get married. And default after two years, there were not even questions, was just a formality and we were not pulled in separate rooms or anything.
Alexandra Kean 9:49
Wow, [speak at same time] I’m pretty interested to hear this compared to the other stories, like what the differences [says, “Yep.”] were without having, you know, the work visas previously and you know, maybe not having in marriage involved in the process like that, it’s very interesting to hear. Do you have a, per se, hardest part about leaving home? Like, you know [trails off]…
Anonymous 10:11
You mean, what I miss the most, perhaps?
Alexandra Kean 10:14
Yeah.
Anonymous 10:17
The wide-open streets, no speed limit Autobahn, so that’s pretty much the only thing. I mean food wise, I can make my… I make my own German food, so I have no problem with that, but elsewise, not too much. When I reconnected a while later- I only have half siblings in Germany, not, like… but my dad remarried, had a couple of sons. My mom remarried, she had a daughter and I grew up with my half-sister, but I really never had any contact growing up with my half-brothers. So, when I connected with one of my half-brothers back in 2013, so, and we’re both like two peas in a pod, so him I do miss a lot. He is real cool guy- I’m the oldest
Alexandra Kean 11:05
You are?
Anonymous 11:06
I’m the oldest, yes.
Alexandra Kean 11:08
Have you, in getting back in touch with any of them, or when you moved here, did you possibly inspire any of them? Are they at all interested in coming to the U.S., or visiting, or immigrating?
Anonymous 11:19
Oh, they like to visit. My brother and his wife they visited a few times. [says, “Okay” at same time]. So, my dad, he says he wouldn’t mind but he says he’s too old. My mom said, “Nah, we don’t want to fly that far either, and we’ll try see [unintelligible],” and so, she is kind of… they don’t mind to visit but they don’t think they would move.
Alexandra Kean 13:00
And you said when you first immigrated you were in Michigan?
Anonymous 13:04
Yes.
Alexandra Kean 13:05
What was life in Michigan like?
Anonymous 13:08
When I got there, it was cold. I mean, it was really cold. When I got there, I think end of January of 1991, it was extremely cold up there. And we work seven days a week, 12 to 14 hours a day for the most time, so there was really not much time off. I mean, I had a little bit time off and some of my colleagues when we had an extended weekend, we drove to see Niagara Falls, we went up to Canada and stuff like that, but that’s pretty much it. There was not much playtime.
Alexandra Kean 13:39
Yeah, and your work sounds extremely fascinating.
Anonymous 13:43
Oh, yes.
Alexandra Kean 13:44
But also, very difficult with the long hours and everything. So, were you working those long hours already and then when you came here, were you used to those hours, or was that kind of like, okay, this is what life’s gonna be now?
Anonymous 13:56
No, as a TF… technical field… as a TFA (technical field advisor), we are used to that. I mean, I did a lot of jobs in – in Holland, Switzerland, Germany. So, I mean, for us it’s expected if a power plant is shut down, the downtime needs to be very limited so they can get back to producing electricity. So, we always had to work those type of hours. I was used to that. When I started back in 1990 with that company, with ABB, pretty much, it was the norm
Alexandra Kean 14:34
With, you know, traveling to the U.S. and being in a different location, all that, did it make it a little bit harder in the sense that, you know, you weren’t on your usual schedule and you were in a new environment, or did you just kind of like, absorb yourself in your work?
Anonymous 14:48
Oh, I absorbed myself. I mean again, when I came originally, I was already six months here before I moved permanently over here, so I mean it’s… It was great. I mean I had no issues with moving. I mean acclimated very easily.
Alexandra Kean 15:02
That’s great to hear.
Anonymous 15:03
No language barriers. I mean, in Germany, you learn mandatory English starting at fifth grade. I started English in fourth grade, actually, on a voluntary base. And it’s been six months on January 1991, or in 91, the six months in Michigan, so everything worked fine. Getting used to the language again and it was all good.
Alexandra Kean 15:32
Yeah, I had a friend in middle school/high school, she was from Germany, and you know, you’re taught English very well at a very young age and everything. So I was curious to know if that was the same experience for you. So, yeah.
Anonymous 15:44
We learned the Queen’s English, so it’s a little different than American English.
Alexandra Kean 15:47
And then from Michigan to Richmond. Did you like Richmond a lot more just environment wise, or just lifestyle wise?
Anonymous 15:56
The environment, I like this area much better because, I mean, you can drive an hour and a half to two hours, you have some mountains. You can drive two hours, you’re on the ocean, so I mean, you’re close to DC- been to DC a few times, you know, I mean, it’s just, it’s just great. No, that’s definitely a move I am glad I was able to… that the company didn’t have a facility in a different state. That was good.
Alexandra Kean 16:21
That’s the one thing I always hear people compliment Richmond on is the fact that you are so close. You go one way, and it’s the mountains, you go another and it’s the water, and it’s just like the perfect location. There’s so much work there and you’re so close, so.
Anonymous 16:35
Oh, yes. Absolutely.
Alexandra Kean 16:38
And you said you met your wife in Michigan, correct?
Anonymous 16:42
Yes.
Alexandra Kean 16:43
Okay, and how soon did you meet her? Was it, you know, weeks into the job? Months?
Anonymous 16:47
No, I think I was there for roughly half of the time, about close to three months. So I met her on a day when I picked up a pizza, I didn’t have a 12 hour day. So yeah, that was… I met her there. I think we, after the first time I met her, we went out after two weeks- two or three weeks after that, and 10 weeks after that, we were engaged and then married within a year. So, yeah.
Alexandra Kean 17:19
That’s awesome that you met her so soon.
Anonymous 17:21
And that’s been 28 years ago. We’ve been married 28 years. I’ve been knowing her since 29 years.
Alexandra Kean 17:28
That is quite impressive. Congratulations, by the way, also.
Anonymous 17:33
Yeah, first American girl I met and that was it. [laughs]
Alexandra Kean 17:37
[laughs] Like, “That’s the one.” Do you think that it all changed things for you meeting her? Or do you think the course of things would have shifted at all for you?
Anonymous 17:47
It changed a lot, absolutely. I mean, I was… when I came over, I was 22 years old so, I mean, marriage probably was the furthest thing on my mind. Okay, so yeah, and that pretty much changed just about immediately, so. [laughs]
Alexandra Kean 18:08
That’s awesome. Thank you for sharing. I know sometimes that people don’t always want to share those aspects, but I appreciate it greatly.
Anonymous 18:14
I think those aspects are very important actually.
Alexandra Kean 18:16
I agree! [simultaneously ]
Anonymous 18:18
I mean, it’s… I mean, it’s pretty much love at first sight is pretty much possible, you know, and I mean, again, we’ve been knowing each other since 29 years of marriage- since 28 years, so that’s always a good story to tell. So, youngsters, you know, you don’t have to hunt around.
Alexandra Kean 18:37
[laughs] Was there a difference in U.S. work norms, or because of the job and it having pretty standard policies and procedures, was there not a lot of difference in work norms that you saw?
Anonymous 18:51
No. Well, my luck is a company, of course, was a European based company. Even in a company in Richmond, I mean, for the most part, it was the same, except we have a little bit better maybe retirement options in Europe, you know, but you do not have to put as much of your own money into the retirement as we do here. Like here, we get… you have to supplement a lot. You have the 401k and stuff like that. Over there is pretty much all company based. You have [unintelligible], you’ve got the sort of like a social security, and the company pays your pension. So, it’s two tiers already, right there, taken care of without a penny out of your pocket. Okay? It’s pretty much the main thing. Health insurance, because I worked in Switzerland- I lived in Germany, I had to get private health insurance anyways, so we’re in it much different here. I mean, when it came over, back in the early 90s, health insurance was much better than it is now, offered even by the company was less out of pocket. So, all that has changed over the years, but it wasn’t really too bad. And the policies itself, I mean in Switzerland, if you want to quit a job you give three months’ notice, and vice versa, also. Which here, you’re lucky to have two weeks. So, I mean, I was in the meantime, back in 2017, I was laid off from my company. Our company got bought out by the big American GE company, General Electric and [unintelligible], they shut us down and I lost my job after 27 years.
Alexandra Kean 20:43
That’s crazy.
Anonymous 20:45
So, yeah.
Alexandra Kean 20:48
And so, when that job… when you got laid off from that, what time was that? What timeframe was that?
Anonymous 20:55
From when I was laid off you mean, and I got a new job?
Alexandra Kean 20:58
Yeah.
Anonymous 20:59
Six months? No, less than six months. I had a job offer after I think four and a half months, five months? So still kind of doing the same stuff I do. Before I was at the company that repaired the equipment and gave it to the utility, now I’m working for the utility. Now I’m on the customer side, not the OEM side, so it’s good.
Alexandra Kean 21:26
Do you like it better at all or do you miss certain aspects of the other job a lot more.
Anonymous 21:31
I missed some aspects but seeing the differences working under GE and working on my current company is much different. The current company, they treat you more as a person, at GE you are really just a number. It’s just a big company and they really don’t care that much. Versus right now, I’m working at Dominion, it’s much, much better.
Alexandra Kean 21:57
Do you work as many hours with this one?
Anonymous 22:00
Oh, no, no, no. [simultaneous talking] Once I started even back, I worked from the shop. When it wasn’t at shop, I was the shop supervisor, department manager. I moved to engineering and the hours have pretty much, working from… I mean, if we had a very hot job, and again, I work up to 80 hours a week. I mean, going into engineering, maybe 50. So, I mean it, right now is still about roughly 48 hours a week. Except, well, one week is more than the other because with Dominion we have flex Fridays. We’re off every other Friday. So normal working hours, 40 for one week, 36 the other week. So that’s not too bad. I like it.
Alexandra Kean 22:48
It’s a big difference from the other job. Do you enjoy having the extra time for family and stuff like that?
Anonymous 22:55
Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Absolutely.
Alexandra Kean 23:00
At the company that you said was European based, was there American workers there with you, or was it all just like, immigrant workers?
Anonymous 23:11
No. no, no. There was, I’d say about 98% American workers.
Alexandra Kean 23:15
Did you notice a difference in their work ethic. Like, did they complain about the longer hours or were they just as expectant, you know.
Anonymous 23:23
I mean they don’t mind the overtime. I mean, they get compensated for it. For the work ethics I mean, I think the standards of work and quality, the way we are trained in Europe are definitely better. I mean, our guys, we trained them, so they were really good, but it took a while, especially to get somebody new. And we have to build up our department to get them to a standard that is acceptable. Some were able to adapt, some were not. So, I mean, that’s… as you’re working on some million dollar works worth of equipment, and its mechanics work, and it’s… you got to be diligent on what you’re doing. I mean, I’m picky when it comes to work.
Alexandra Kean 24:11
And rightfully so [laughs].
Anonymous 24:14
I mean, like my education, and I did my high school in Germany and I went to apprenticeship in Switzerland because I grew up in the mills in a very small town. There was not much infrastructure there and I really didn’t feel like University Bound. So, I learned a trade, which in Switzerland, takes four years. And that is part college, one day a week college and four days working at a company, and the first year I mean, most of the apprenticeships you do here in the US, you work for companies- it’s on the job training. But in Switzerland, we were one year in a facility where they only taught you. No production work, they just taught you everything. I mean, there was nothing being out in a working world. It was only four straight, hands-on learning. And like I said, it took four years to get your diploma, and they really taught you good quality, workmanship, craftsmanship. That’s missing, that’s actually missing over here this, unfortunately.
Alexandra Kean 25:34
Most definitely, and that’s always something that I’ve heard a lot from, you know, people that either come to the U.S., like I I met… I work at a tourist destination, or like used to do like high school and like, in the summers of college, and that was… when we’d have foreigners come into town and stuff like that, you know, and we’d talked to them. “So, what do you like about here? What do you, you know, what don’t you like about it here?” That was one of the things is, you know is, oh, the quality is just not the same.
Anonymous 26:03
But that is really missing here. I mean in Germany, at least back in my day, but I still think is to this day… you have- after fourth grade, after elementary school, there are three high schools. One ends at ninth grade, one ends at 10th grade, and one ends at 13th grade. Ninth grade, high school, you’re pretty much go into the working world to learn a profession. Be it a dental hygienist, be it a dental assistant, be it a welder or auto mechanic, or whatever. So, you pretty much, you’re kind of geared towards that direction. The 10 year, it’s after the 10th year, you can either decide, well, do you want to go and learn a trade, or do you want to further education? There’s another school after that, which is not a high school, but it’s just… you can go further on further, and then go to university. The 13th year high school, pretty much after you graduate, you go straight to university and that is pretty much paid for also, for the most part. Not like here where you have all your student debt. This is something I really struggled with and am in huge disagreement. For kids being 22 years old, 23 years old coming out of college university being $100,000 in debt. That is ludicrous.
Alexandra Kean 27:34
Yep, agreed.
Anonymous 27:37
And that does not happen in Germany.
Alexandra Kean 27:41
Thank you for explaining those differences. I think that’s really important to hear, difference wise. So how many kids have you put through college thus far? Just one or do you only have like, [trails off]
Anonymous 27:51
One went through college and the second one, kind of does community college. The third one still has college; he’s still got to finish high school first. But my daughter, she went through Virginia Tech, she graduated Virginia Tech and she went to trade school afterwards. Because she didn’t want to go to school anymore to become a veterinarian. So, she of course does animal science. So, she actually went to trade school and learned a trade, which that was expensive too. Which is kind of unbelievable that you have to pay to learn a trade. The trade school for nine months, was $30,000, for nine months.
Alexandra Kean 28:35
Wow. Do you think that they are at all interested in, because of these differences, in you know, hearing them from you and knowing about your life- Do you think that they’re at all interested in immigrating out of the U.S. to maybe meet family somewhere?
Anonymous 28:52
Definitely not.
Alexandra Kean 28:52
No? Okay [laughs].
Anonymous 28:54
I don’t, I really don’t think so. My daughter might, maybe wants to move out west, but that’s about it. Not across the pond to the east. Visit, they don’t mind but I don’t think they would wanna live there, but they have the option. Germany changed laws, I think maybe 10 years ago, so they have the option to be dual citizens. They allowed them. So, all I need to do is drag them to DC and get them a German passport, that’s it.
Alexandra Kean 29:30
Oh, that’s really cool. I hadn’t even thought about that aspect of it.
Anonymous 29:34
So for me it’s not as easy. I’m still German citizen. I’m here on the… I’m a permanent resident. They don’t call them resident alien anymore; they call them permanent residents now. Also, I know there was… I know why they changed the name and the main thing is because of Germany. America doesn’t care if you’re a dual citizen. It’s Germany who is still very nationalistic in regard to you’re either German or not. So, they do not, kind of, want you to be dual citizen. Well, I mean, yes, you have to apply for it. So, if I want to keep my German citizenship and become an American citizen, I have to send an application to Germany for them to evaluate if they will allow me to do that. So that’s not quite as simple for me. I mean, technically, I could have become an American citizen in 1997, five years after I was married. But again, like I said, I don’t want to because all my family being in Germany, I just don’t want to give my German citizenship.
Alexandra Kean 30:44
I can’t blame you, and considering hearing about how Germany is about it, it makes sense, you know, especially for you, why you wouldn’t want to do that. That’s interesting to hear.
Anonymous 30:55
I might do it when my green card needs to be renewed. The green card has to be renewed every 10 years. You have to go to Norfolk, get picture taken, get fingerprinted again. I might just do that when it comes up next time, and I will try to apply for dual citizenship with Germany. See what they say.
Alexandra Kean 31:14
When you get like, reaffirmed for your green card, and you have to go and do that. Is that like a day thing or do you kind of have to do some paperwork in advance?
Anonymous 31:24
It’s a day thing, pretty much. You set up an appointment, and you just go there to get fingerprinted and the picture taken. It’s not much paperwork involved anymore. Unless you changed your address, but I’ve been there the whole time. It’s the same address anyway, so not a big deal.
Alexandra Kean 31:43
They make it sound much more intimidating.
Anonymous 31:45
Yes. I mean, it’s just inconvenient, not so much intimidating. I mean, you get up to come up to the guys with uniforms and everything else, but I mean, to me, that’s not really intimidating. But it’s inconvenient.
Alexandra Kean 31:58
Yeah, I can definitely see that. For you, you said you have to go to DC for this? It’s all in DC that you have to do that?
Anonymous 32:06
No, that’s…that’s for my passport, and Norfolk has an I.S. office… they have a field office in Norfolk.
Alexandra Kean 32:11
Okay. Oh, that’s right, you said Norfolk. And that, is that like three hours for you?
Anonymous 32:18
By the time I drive there, I mean, but no, about two hours. That’s about… it takes about five, six hours. between everything is done, said and done with.
Alexandra Kean 32:28
Well, that’s not- yeah, that’s not bad, but definitely an inconvenience.
Anonymous 32:31
It’s by appointment only. It’s also only by appointment. So that’s the other reason I might just consider about, again, doing the application to Germany for dual citizenship. [unintelligible] save money in the long run. The last time I had my green card renewed, it was $450. I think if you do the naturalization, I think it’s about $900 to $1,100, one time shot, and you’re done. That’s probably what I’ll end up doing.
Alexandra Kean 33:03
Is it hard to get an appointment where it is by appointment only? Are you on like a waiting list for an opening or can you just call?
Anonymous 33:10
I think back when I had- I forgot what year was, might have been five years ago- so about six years ago, it was all pretty much done online. So it was, you pick your time in advance. I mean, you’re not being reminded when your green card expires, you have to be on top of it and you have to set up your appointment in advance so that you will not be without any type of green card. I mean, it doesn’t matter as long as you don’t leave the country, but yeah, it’s wasn’t too bad. Was not too bad. The Internet helps out a lot with that type of stuff.
Alexandra Kean 33:55
Upon your initial immigration- here, sorry, I’m circling back again.
Anonymous 33:59
That’s fine.
Alexandra Kean 34:01
I know you said you were working a lot, so obviously you didn’t have a lot of spare time, but was it pretty easy to make friends? Were a lot of people really interested in hearing about your background and wanting to get to know about your life in Germany, they were just kind of ambivalent to it all.
Anonymous 34:16
There were a little… they were indifferent. I mean, most of my friends came from work then of course. I mean, that’s work or neighbors. That’s pretty much… and I would say the neighbors were more interested than the people I worked with. So, I mean, people I worked with were a little bit older, vintage. Also, I was younger than the most of my direct reports I had, so I was younger than them. And I mean, we were still good friends, but they really didn’t ask too many questions. They were used to a lot of Europeans coming through the shop. I mean, not staying there, but the engineering coming through and stuff like that. So, I mean, they were kind of more used to it, but I’d say our neighbors we had were of difference, so they were a bit more interested.
Alexandra Kean 35:04
Was their interest, you know, positive as in just they wanted to get to know you? Or were they just kind of like, why, why? [laughs]
Anonymous 35:12
Well, I mean, they’re kind of… again, I have to explain why I wanted to move. Yeah, that’s pretty much… everything else is a moot point. I just, they were more of the comparison type, like, okay, “How was it over there compared to here?” You know, “What do you like here? What you miss over there?” Just stuff like that.
Alexandra Kean 35:31
Is there an experience you had here where it was kind of like, “Yep, I’m definitely in America,” or was there just like an aha moment, like, “Yep, I’m here.”
Anonymous 35:43
Well, talking to another colleague of mine, if you come to the States, you either like it, or you hate it. Pretty much, as soon as you get off the plane, either or. My colleague, he just didn’t like it. To me. I mean, again, I always loved it. I love the outdoors. I love fishing and stuff like that. Germany, it’s not easy to go fishing, it’s expensive to go fishing. Over here, it’s just so simple. You pay a few bucks, you get a fishing license, and you go fishing. It doesn’t happen like that over there. Same thing with hunting, for example. And hunting is very, very expensive over there by the time you go through all your training, even just to get a license to be able to hunt, I think it’s several thousands of dollars and several months of schooling. And you can not just go out and hunt, you also have to take care of part of the forest, so just stuff like that. That’s really, I mean, that’s what I really like, or twenty-three years old, well was I twenty-three or twenty-four? Twenty-four was when I got the house. So, I mean, there’s not a lot of 24 year olds in Germany who have a house. You live in apartments or you rent, and you don’t have your own place. So that was really like, I mean, it’s awesome. I don’t know if that kind of answers your questions.
Alexandra Kean 37:05
Oh, no, that definitely did. Yeah!
Anonymous 37:06
I mean, you have way more, pretty much, just to, to sum it up, in one word- the freedom you have over here is completely different. The wide-open spaces, and in Germany is very crowded, but over here, you get wide open spaces, like the freedom to hunt, to fish, to own land. I mean, it’s just… yes, that is a big like, yeah.
Alexandra Kean 37:16
The big draw to America.
Anonymous 37:30
Big thumbs up.
Alexandra Kean 37:31
Yeah [laughs]. When you moved here, did you find anything, whether it be interests from back home or just new interest you gained here, I know you mentioned you like fishing and things like that, is that kind of like the community you got drawn towards? Like the outdoorsy community? Were you super interested in, you know, like, a certain facet of American culture that just you really caught on to?
Anonymous 37:56
Not really. I mean, like I said, I liked the same stuff in Germany also, I was fishing. I mean, just exploring more over here, you know, that’s… new place just so much more places to go I’d say. I mean, it’s just, I mean, again, I just like the freedom the best. A place to jump in the car- I mean, D.C., for example. I mean, it’s best to visit places like that. It’s really nice. The history and everything else, all the museums. Well, that’s really, I mean, what really stands out to me.
Alexandra Kean 38:35
Is there something that you wish more Americans in general knew about immigrants in America? Something that you just, if you could get a word out there, what would you say about it?
Anonymous 38:48
I mean most people, when you hear them talk, they talk about illegal immigrants, okay? Which, I mean, in Germany, we had those plenty before we had the EU. They had all the [speaks German], it means, undocumented workers, okay? And that’s the only thing… what people here talk about a lot and, I mean, it’s unfortunately the way it works. I mean, I can understand you cannot just give everybody a green card and come in. I mean, you got to go through the right process, and I didn’t just come over here and, okay, did work for a while and then, “Hey, listen, I’m here now.” So, you know, I mean, everything should be done legally and it’s kind of hard to. I mean, I understand why people come over here, you know, absolutely. It’s all… it’s the work that’s available but, I mean, it’s [trails off].
Alexandra Kean 39:48
No, that’s fine. No, I think you answered [speak at same time] well. I just wasn’t sure if there was like, an experience where, you know, as an immigrant, if you were like, you know, this is a question I always get a lot and I wish more people had the answer to it or you didn’t realize was such a unique question to ask somebody?
Anonymous 40:07
No, I think because of my- I want to say, I mean- ethnic background, I don’t get asked those questions too much. [speaks at same time, unintelligible]. People might ask me, you know, when they hear my – little bit of my accent, they say, “Well, where are you from?” You know, and that’s pretty much – much it. That’s – that’s all.
Alexandra Kean 40:25
Cool, and I think that is a fantastic answer within itself because of the fact that, you know, having a different accent or something, you know, might spark different questions. [says, “Yep” at same time] And so, I think hearing that difference and the fact that you – you haven’t experienced a whole lot of this and that, and questioning here and there, and like, “What was your immigration process like?” So, that’s the perfect answer. I have a sentimental question, I guess, but, you- well you kind of answered it, I guess, with like, what you miss most about home. Like you said, you make a lot of your food, you know, anyway, [says “Yep” same time] so you don’t miss that, but if – do you have something that you wish you could bring from Germany, and just kind of insert it into America?
Anonymous 41:09
The breads and pastries, so I mean, a really good bread. That’s – that’s actually what’s missing- all the rolls, fresh rolls, when you go to the bakery in the morning, they have multiple, multiple fresh rolls. That’s just – that’s pretty much the main thing. I would say. I mean, I can deal with driving slower and stuff like that, but the breads I really do miss.
Alexandra Kean 41:33
Have you gone to like, the grocery stores where they offer like international like foods, like an international food market, and tried to find anything and it just like, doesn’t compare or… [trails off]?
Anonymous 41:45
It does not compare, really, it’s too- it still tastes too much mass produced. If you go to a Wegmans, it’s a big firm. Yes, they have come fairly close. Wholefoods, yeah, you find some rolls there but it’s not the same as a small privately owned bakery on Main Street, for example, you know, in a small village- it just doesn’t compare. You will not, you will not find that.
Alexandra Kean 42:14
Are there any, like German restaurants near you or like ones that you visited?
Anonymous 42:20
Well, I mean, you have seen the Edelweiss, which is in Staunton, which is not too bad. There are few of them here and there, they’re not bad, they’re not bad, but it’s still not. There’s one in Orange County, little bit north of Charlottesville, I think on fifteen that is. The Bavarian is in Fredericksburg, and then there’s one more in like I say, near Charlottesville. They’re, okay, but it’s still I mean…they’re close I mean, don’t get me wrong, they’re close, but there’s still a lot of American owned and still, they don’t have the right touch.
Alexandra Kean 43:00
My friends from Germany, the one thing that they would always bring back when they visit home over the holidays, is they always bring back chocolates and stuff [laughs]. They loved to bring back chocolates.
Anonymous 43:11
Yes.
Alexandra Kean 43:11
They hated American chocolate, they were like [says “Yes” at same time], “There’s nothing I despise more,” and they would always bring us on to sample, and it was always just so much better.
Anonymous 43:20
Yeah, when I was traveling more to Europe, I usually came back with a backpack. People at customs always laughed at me because the whole backpack was filled with chocolate. Yes, that’s true. I mean, I try not to eat too many sweets anymore these days [laughs], but yeah, the chocolate, the Swiss chocolate, you cannot beat. So usually, every now and then my brother has sent me a care package of stuff- gummy bears and chocolates, and stuff like that, so…[trails off]
Alexandra Kean 43:51
I know when we’ve talked a lot about in like, our class about immigrant communities, when they come in- if they bring a lot of family, or over time through finding work and everything, more family comes over or family friends come over- and that is one of the largest things is they’ll start either a restaurant where they can have their own foods created by their families or they start like a grocery or a food market so that people in that community can come and have more native foods and things.
Anonymous 44:26
I think that’s more- I don’t want to say Germans are cold, but the… you see that more in the close-knit community of the Hispanics, which is great. They will do that. They’re more the whole I mean, they’re all family like. With Germans, we really are not that close to other people where you really would go: okay, somebody immigrates over and, “Hey, hello,” you know, it’s just different mentality for the Western Europeans. That’s unfortunate but, yeah.
Alexandra Kean 45:03
It’s an interesting perspective. You hear about the ones that they bring a lot of- it’s community based, it’s family based, it’s how can I, you know, bring family over and how are we creating community? So it’s different and very interesting to hear about the different factors of, you know, you came based on work and things like that, you know, there wasn’t a whole lot of family ties, so it’s very fascinating to hear the difference. With all of the years that you have spent in the U.S., would you describe yourself as feeling American or patriotic, or do you hold much stronger to your German ties?
Anonymous 45:40
Probably more to the, to the American ties. I mean, I’ve spent- actually, I’m over 50 now, so I was- and more than half of my life has been in the U.S. I mean, yeah, I do, like, more the patriotic type right here, I guess. I mean, again, like I said, I spent more time here than in Germany. And even in my younger years, I was traveling a lot, so I was, I’m – like I said through Switzerland, other European countries, and so on. So I was on the road a lot and that’s the only issue I kind of have, which would be nice if you’re – I mean, I can understand, yeah, they don’t want somebody like me running for government office or stuff like that, but I think if you’ve been so long in the States, if you’re a permanent resident, you’re paying taxes, and I still think for the voting rights, you should have the right to vote as a permanent resident. That’s what I feel, but that’s just my own feeling because I definitely have no stake to vote in Germany, per se, you know, because I don’t live there; I will have more stake in the U.S. government than German government.
Alexandra Kean 46:48
As time has passed, and you know, you can look back over the years and look back, you know, over your experiences. Obviously, coming in you said, you know, you weren’t prepared to meet your wife and have the expectation of getting married soon, but very broad view, how can you say that your expectations changed for what you had in mind to like, what you expect now?
Anonymous 47:15
I mean, like I said, I come over from a small town and living in an apartment. I mean, I definitely didn’t expect to be out in the woods on eight acres and [names housing location], you know what I mean? And, I mean, it still has kind of the mentality with, “Oh, this is my first house.” In Europe, or Germany, if you do have a house, you usually keep a house almost for your whole life. So, in America, a lot of people they – a lot of times they sell and move just, maybe 10 miles away from where they were and again, that’s not me. I’ve still got some mentality now, this is my place, I don’t want to give it up. So that’s what I mean, that’s, I would have not expected that, to even have a house at that age- at 23 back then, so I mean, that’s something I would have never thought about it. I mean, I didn’t plan on buying a house either. I was looking for something for rent and back in 1993, the market was really bad (the housing market), and the real estate agents said, “Well, why do you want to rent if you can build something?” They showed us a couple lots, we pick this lot, and then about 8 months later, we moved in. So yeah, that’s something also that was not expected.
Alexandra Kean 48:37
That’s awesome and I mean, that’s quite a feat. You know, if you’ve been somebody living here, your whole life, let alone, you know, you’ve immigrated you’ve just met the love of your life, and boom, you already have property – you already have, you know, a home and everything, so that’s amazing.
Anonymous 48:55
Everything was in the year and three months, per se, yeah.
Alexandra Kean 48:58
Wow, that’s absolutely incredible!
Anonymous 49:02
It was- everything went quick.
Alexandra Kean 49:04
Yeah, definitely! [laughs] And then I guess, kind of my last question for you, is if there’s anything you want to add about your experience here, or any stories that you know, are a favorite of yours, something that you know, you tell the dinner table or something like that- something that you’d want to share with other people.
Anonymous 49:28
Like, so usually it’s just to be open minded. Again, everything that happened to me was not planned, you know, so just sit back. And I mean, what I usually tell a lot of the younger people, I mean, I’m an assistant Scoutmaster and Joey (the middle child), he’s an Eagle Scout. Within the next two weeks, my youngest child [unintelligible] should be an Eagle Scout also; he has his stuff lined up. And it’s just what I’ve seen, especially in the youth, they really don’t cherish what you have. I mean, you have a great country. You’ve got great environment and just nobody takes care of it. Like, that’s- but yeah, usually our dating stories, that’s the one I usually share the most at the dinner table for all the people who say they have questions…[?] There was just one little caveat to it. So, at first, my wife, she planned on possibly moving- she entertained the thought- and I already had a new job lined up in Switzerland, working as an aircraft mechanic at Swiss Air, and everything was already the lined up. And then, I was on a job in Holland and she said, “You know what, I don’t think I really can do that move. And [unintelligible] I’m too close to my family. I can move from Michigan to Virginia, but I don’t know if I could move to Germany.” “Okay, well, let me see here,” but, yeah. Then the whole Richmond experience started with the company.
Alexandra Kean 51:04
Awesome and then- well, I do have one more question. If you knew somebody who was coming to you and wanted to immigrate to the United States, what would your advice be to them just to you know, to help make it easier, or just through experiences of dealing with the green card incidences, things like that? What would your, you know, overall advice be?
Anonymous 51:30
Well, pretty much, you always got to be honest, because you will not fool the government. That’s one thing you cannot do. I mean, if you think you can pull one over, maybe a first, but it’s not going to happen, so again, just do your legal way. If you do a visa first, you know, it’s, you don’t – I don’t know if it they still have spon- I think, some aspects you still have sponsors, but it’s not easy in these days anymore to really get in here that quick. I mean, you cannot look for a job because you cannot get hired if you don’t have a permanent residency. So it’s, I mean, I have a few of my colleagues, they came from Europe. They came over here on the work visa, the L-1 work visa, and then the company sponsored them, and they ended up getting a green card that way. Okay, and a couple of friends of mine, they’re from Croatia, they came over here- engineers, and you just have to- if you have the right backgrounds, right education, then you might find a larger company, you know. That’s an avenue you’d want to go to, to see if they would try to get you the work visa, if you’re really that qualified, and then go through that route and try to have them to be a sponsor for a green card. That’s what I would say, the most true way of coming over here.
Alexandra Kean 53:02
That’s fantastic advice. Thank you.
Anonymous 53:05
But again, you’ve gotta have the background. Both, like both my friends are engineers, so very specialized, and it was really- it was kind of easy for them to find a niche in the company when they were hired in at ABB, mostly.
Alexandra Kean 53:24
Well, I think those were all my questions for you.
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