Interview with Niloofar (Nellie) Crowder
Introduction
Before taking this class, the word “immigrant” unsettled me. My only source of information—the media—often portrayed immigrants as threats: criminals, burdens on the economy, or unwelcome outsiders. These portrayals shaped my understanding, presenting a narrow view that ignored their resilience and the complexity of their experiences. Growing up in a small, predominantly white town, whispers of judgment and unchallenged stereotypes only reinforced these biases.
I’ve always been curious about stories such as the one I now have the privilege of telling. but for a long time, I hesitated to ask, unsure if my questions would be welcomed or appropriate. My ignorance wasn’t born of malice or fear; it stemmed from never truly listening. Not until now. Today, I approach these stories with deep gratitude, humbled by the opportunity to bear witness to the honesty, vulnerability, and extraordinary resilience of families like Dr. Crowder’s. I will never have enough words to fully capture the weight of these stories, nor the breadth of emotions and sacrifices that come with them. But it is with great honor and humility that I try.
Dr. Niloofar “Nellie” Crowder graciously shared her story with me, revisiting her past through the eyes of her 11-year-old self and reflecting on her journey from Iran to the United States. In the few years I’ve known Dr. Crowder, I’ve come to admire the many roles she fills—as a dentist, mother, daughter, and friend. On a Sunday morning, much like others we’d spent chatting about her son’s latest antics, her playful cat Marley, or my next dental cleaning, we curled up on the couch of her sun-drenched living room with coffee in hand. But this time, our conversation ventured beyond the ordinary. She shared her story, and I listened—leaving her home with a deeper understanding and profound respect for the family that built it.
Methods
The interview itself was a relaxed and natural conversation. My computer was set aside, and the discussion flowed freely without a rigid script or set of questions. While I was nervous listening back at how informally I spoke and how unstructured the interview was, I realized this storytelling approach allowed Dr. Crowder to share her experiences in her own words, capturing the essence of her story with honesty and vulnerability. At one point, her sister, Yassi walked in and joined the conversation, which added another layer of warmth and authenticity—filled with giggles, fond recollections, and highlighted the irreplaceable bond between siblings.
Later that night, I had the pleasure of joining Dr. Crowder’s family—her children, husband, parents, sister, and brother-in-law—for a traditional Persian kebab dinner at her parent’s home. Before dinner, Dr. Crowder’s mother shared the tradition of burning Esfand (Peganum Harmala) to cleanse the spirits and purify the home.
As we sat down, they laughed as I attempted to eat Kabab Koobideh, a dish made from ground beef and lamb, often served with rice (like chelow) flatbread and vegetables. As I spent the majority of the meal trying to get all the food from the plate to my mouth, I joked that they all must be ambidextrous to eat with both a spoon and fork, a skill that was second nature to everyone else at the table.
For dessert, I was introduced to Pashmak, Persian cotton candy, which has a unique texture—soft, dense, and melts in your mouth, offering a sweet end to the meal.
After dinner, we pulled out the family photo album to gather photos for my project, but it turned into an impromptu family memory session, where stories and laughter flowed just as easily as the food.
As the evening concluded, Dr. Crowder’s father shared the Persian blessing, “Nush-e jan bashad” (نوش جان باشد), which translates to “May it be sustenance for your soul,” expressing a deep wish that the food not only nourishes the body but also brings comfort, joy, and well-being to the soul.
This meal shared with the family was more than just about food—it was an immersion into their culture and a reminder of how eagerly they wanted to share it. Far from feeling like an outsider, I was made to feel like part of the family, even if just for one night. In those few hours, I experienced the love and care that binds this family together—especially during difficult times. As Dr. Crowder’s husband put it, “I don’t know what your project is about, but if it’s anything about Iranian culture,” he gestured toward the family huddled around the photo album, “this is it. They just love being together.”
At that moment, I realized the best way to study sociology is to experience it firsthand. Through this evening, I was able to witness the deeply personal and cultural practices that shape this family’s identity and resilience. The value of qualitative, firsthand data—through shared experience—expanded my understanding of these concepts in ways no textbook or lecture could. It’s one thing to study a culture from the outside, but another to be welcomed into it, to feel the warmth of the family, and to witness how deeply culture and connection are woven into their everyday lives.
Summary of Findings
Migration Journey
Dr. Crowder’s migration story begins in Tehran, Iran, where she was born and raised until the age of 11, when the revolution suddenly began. As war erupted and rapid governmental changes unfolded—many of which specifically oppressed women—her parents realized they had to act quickly. Reflecting on their decision for their two daughters, Dr. Crowder shared, “They knew we wouldn’t really have the kind of future that they had hoped for us.”
Despite her young age, certain memories of the turmoil stood out vividly. Her parents’ parties at home were interrupted by air raid sirens. “We’d have to go into the basement…Oh my god, and we could see the bombs going across the window, however far away they were we could see it.” Life had already been dramatically reshaped by the revolution: her Catholic school was shut down and replaced by one where she was required to cover her hair and follow strict dress codes. “Things had already changed so quickly,” she recalled. “We knew nothing was the same, but at 11, I don’t think I quite understood what it all meant.”
Dr. Crowder’s family left Iran under the guise of a vacation, a decision made with urgency and uncertainty. Her father, who worked for the foreign company Whirlpool Appliances, fled first in fear of being detained. He made his way to Dubai, where his wife and daughters would later join him. “They did it very suddenly,” she explained. “I don’t know if my parents at that time realized that they would never go back.”
She reflected on their final night in Iran in detail: “My mom, my sister, and I sat in her bedroom, and we went through her jewelry,” she recalled. “My sister and I could only take some things because we were going to the airport with one suitcase, like we were going on vacation. We weren’t leaving the country. We were going on vacation.” Repeating those words, Crowder emphasized the gravity of that moment. “So we had a suitcase, we had some of our jewelry and off we went” She said. “My mom, my sister and I shut the door to her home and went to the airport and never went back.” Overwhelmed with uncertainty, grounded by hope, their journey began.
Dr. Crowder recalled her family’s time in Dubai fondly, though at the time, her focus was on much more exciting things than their uncertain future. A tutor came to teach her and her sister, Yassi, English to prepare them for their upcoming move to England. Despite the lessons, Dr. Crowder admitted that learning the language wasn’t easy: “She must have been so disappointed in us,” she said with a laugh. “My sister and I sucked at it.” At just 11 years old, her days were spent enjoying the luxuries of their hotel, which included an ice skating rink, pool, and opportunities for fishing. “Other than the tutor coming to us for an hour, we just played,” she recalled. While the girls played, their father tirelessly worked to secure their next steps, careful to maintain the illusion of a carefree vacation for his daughters.
Dr. Crowder’s family moved to England, where her father resumed work with Whirlpool. They rented a house and began settling into their new life. Crowder distinctly remembers shopping for essentials at a store called Tesco, which sold groceries and household items like pots, pans, sheets, and towels. She recalled her parents pushing two carts full of items through the store, stocking up on everything they needed to make a home.
Her parents also enrolled her and her sister in a private school, as public schools in England at the time weren’t considered an option for them. Even in a uniform, she remembered feeling out of place: “Clearly we stuck out like sore thumbs because we were not British,” she said, slipping into a fake English accent. Laughing, she mocked herself, “I had an afro. I had a unibrow.” Despite the differences, she added with a smile, “We tried to blend in, you know, we tried to be kids with the other kids.”
Though the family tried to adapt, the transition to life in England proved challenging. Dr. Crowder’s mother struggled the most, finding it difficult to adjust to the gloomy weather and feeling isolated without close friends or family, apart from her husband’s uncle and his wife. “She was homesick,” Dr. Crowder explained. “My mom couldn’t stay there. She was like, this is not going to work.” Realizing that England wasn’t a sustainable option, her parents decided to seek a new beginning in America.
Integration Experiences
Dr. Crowder reflected on the immense challenges her family faced during their immigration journey. “When we first moved to the United States, my parents obtained a lawyer, and if I am certain my dad were to ever compile the amount of money he had to pay, it would make someone just cry,” she shared. The process of obtaining a green card was long and difficult, with setbacks along the way, including times when their lawyer “just went rogue,” disappearing without warning. Despite these obstacles, her father remained determined, working tirelessly to navigate the legal system.
It took 13 years for Dr. Crowder’s family to receive their green card, with every step done legally to ensure their status in the U.S. was never in question. Once they obtained their green card, they had to wait a specific amount of time before applying for citizenship. Dr. Crowder noted the immense effort her father put in, including traveling to New York to establish a corporate job in the hopes it would expedite the process. “13 years, 13 years my dad… there was a period where my dad would fly to New York once a week to establish his business,” she recalled.
Reflecting on the sacrifices her parents made, Dr. Crowder asked herself, “As a parent, I think about, what if I had to do what they did? How would I do it? Would I give up?” She paused and continued, “They had an incredible lifestyle in Iran, an incredible lifestyle, and to go from that to delivering pizzas for Domino’s…” Her voice broke as she sat in silence for a moment, her eyes welling with tears. After a deep breath, she whispered, “It’s pretty remarkable.”
Dr. Crowder’s family’s move to the United States began in Texas, where her father’s brother lived. Still unemployed, her father supported the family using his savings. Seeking an opportunity, her father partnered with his brother, an architect, to build houses, despite having a background in accounting and no experience in construction. Initially, they focused on townhouses, but the early 1980s housing market crash left him with unsold properties and mounting debts. Unable to make payments, he ultimately went bankrupt. Faced with this setback, her father decided to move the family to Virginia, where another relative, a cousin, encouraged them to start fresh. “He packed up the car—a Grand Am Pontiac—and we moved to Virginia Beach,” Dr. Crowder recounted. Despite the turmoil, she and her sister continued attending school during these challenging times, while her father worked to rebuild their lives once again.
Dr. Crowder shared the story of her father’s determination in starting and running a pizza shop, Val’s Mini Italia, despite having no prior experience in the food business. “My dad found a pizza shop that was for sale and knew nothing about the pizza business,” she explained. To learn, he started delivering pizzas for Domino’s before taking over the shop and gradually building it into a successful family restaurant. The shop became a cornerstone of their lives and a hub for the community. “There were so many regulars,” Dr. Crowder recalled warmly. “Several of the customers over the years, when my sister and I got married, actually attended our weddings because they were such regulars.” Her father worked tirelessly to promote the business, often driving his daughters to neighborhoods to pass out flyers door-to-door. Despite the success, he worried about potential prejudice if customers knew they were from Iran. “My dad was convinced that if he told his customers that we were from Iran, it would cause some animosity,” she said. “So he claimed that he had some Italian heritage if anybody ever asked him, and it got him in trouble a couple of times.” The shop was a true labor of love, and her parents ran it for 15 to 17 years, working every single day. “Like true immigrant stories, they worked seven days a week. They were always there,” she said. Their hands-on approach meant they micromanaged every detail. “Mom had to work there, Dad had to work there. God forbid somebody didn’t fold the box the right way,” she said, laughing at the memory.
When Dr. Crowder married and moved to Charlottesville, her parents eventually decided to join her. “After three years of me being here in Charlottesville, they decided that they were going to retire, so they sold their business and moved here,” she explained. This was almost 20 years ago. However, they soon realized that financial retirement wasn’t feasible. Undeterred, they purchased a coffee shop on the downtown mall, which they ran for 15 years.
Dr. Crowder’s parents’ hard work and sacrifices not only shaped their own careers but also deeply influenced her journey. As her parents poured their energy into building businesses and providing for the family, they instilled in their children a strong work ethic and the importance of perseverance, which played a significant role in Dr. Crowder’s career choice. Her path began to take shape during a family car ride in her senior year of high school. “My dad asked, ‘What are you going to do when you go to college? What are you going to study?’” she recalled. At the time, she had no idea and responded, “I don’t know, Dad.” Her father began suggesting traditional roles for women, like a nurse, teacher, or librarian. Then he mentioned their dental hygienist, inspired by the family’s frequent visits to Dr. Williams’ office for dental work. “He said, ‘How about her job?’ I didn’t even know what the title was, but he was describing it, and I said, ‘Yeah, that sounds okay too.’” Taking her father’s suggestion to heart, Dr. Crowder pursued a dental hygiene program at Old Dominion University. “Within the first year, I knew that I couldn’t do that repetitive, mundane type of work,” she admitted. “Plus, I think I have a chip on my shoulder, I thought, if somebody’s going to have to tell me what to do—a dentist—I don’t think I’m going to do well with that.” While working part-time as a dental assistant, she admired the dentist she worked for, Dr. Chris Hooper, and decided to follow his path. “I wanted to be a dentist,” she said. She took summer classes, applied to dental school at Virginia Commonwealth University, and was accepted.
Reflecting on the financial strain of pursuing higher education, Dr. Crowder expressed gratitude for her parents’ sacrifices. “I don’t know what my dad was thinking about how he was going to afford to pay for school,” she said, noting that tuition at Old Dominion was relatively affordable at the time. “I remember when my dad wrote my tuition check—it was like $1,500—I thought, ‘Holy shit, that’s so much money. How are you doing it?’ And they did it, and they put me through school.”
Membership and Identity
Dr. Crowder reflected on how her family has balanced their Iranian heritage with their American lifestyle, emphasizing the importance of maintaining their culture, especially after her parents moved to Crozet 18 years ago. “It was very important for me to have the culture for them always present,” she shared. At home, they made sure to celebrate both Iranian and American holidays. “We’re going to have Iranian food and talk about things and celebrate the holidays, the Iranian holidays, and also, of course, absorbing all the Christian holidays,” she explained. This blend of traditions became an integral part of their lives, and for the children, it was never questioned.
Her father’s strong connection to Iran was reflected in his family ties, as many of his relatives still live there. “Only one sibling is here in the United States. He is one of nine,” Dr. Crowder explained. Despite the political challenges, her father continued to visit Iran regularly. After facing some initial difficulties, including paying fines upon arrival, he was able to travel there consistently.
Dr. Crowder’s mother and sister also maintain strong ties to Iran. “I have been back once. My mother has been back a couple of times, and my sister would be there every day of her life if she could,” Dr. Crowder said. Her sister’s connection is especially strong. “She goes to Iran at least every two years, if not once a year. And some years she’s gone twice a year. She wants to be in Iran,” Dr. Crowder noted. For her sister, maintaining this connection is essential.
Over the years, family and friends have brought certain very sentimental items for Dr. Crowder’s parents wherever they’ve been. “My mother’s jewelry, which is very special to her, something that might not make a lot of sense to a lot of people, but her photo albums,” Dr. Crowder shared. “She has maybe 20 photo albums from over the years of them being in Iran and their lives.” These cherished items became an important connection to their past.
Analysis
Dr. Crowder’s family migration story offers valuable insights into migration theories, legal frameworks, and the multifaceted process of integration. Their journey reflects key migration theories such as push-pull factors, the role of networks, and the significance of labor markets. Additionally, their interactions with immigration policies and their eventual integration in the U.S. shed light on the complexities of navigating identity, belonging, and cultural preservation.
Push-Pull Factors and Networks
Dr. Crowder’s family’s migration to the U.S. was largely driven by the push factors in Iran, including political instability and limited opportunities. The pull factor of family networks in the U.S. played a significant role in their decision-making process. Her father’s brother, already settled in Texas and Oklahoma, helped ease their entry into the country. The network of relatives and connections in Virginia helped her family start afresh, a common theme in migration where family ties provide both practical and emotional support.
Labor Markets and Adaptation
Once in Virginia, Dr. Crowder’s father demonstrated resilience by adapting to the labor market despite a lack of experience. He invested in a pizza shop, and although initially inexperienced in the food business, he learned the ropes by working at Domino’s before taking over the business. His drive to succeed and adapt to a new labor market mirrors the typical experience of many immigrants who, regardless of their professional backgrounds, must take on new roles to survive and thrive in a different country.
Interactions with Immigration Policies
Throughout their journey, the Crowder family’s interactions with immigration policies were marked by hurdles. Dr. Crowder’s father faced initial challenges when attempting to travel to Iran due to the unpredictability of Iranian government policies. “When he first arrived at the airport, there was some questioning, and he had to go and talk to so and so and so and so and pay some fines,” she explained. Despite these setbacks, her father continued to visit Iran, maintaining connections with his family there, which highlights the impact of restrictive immigration policies on immigrants’ ability to maintain ties with their home countries.
Integration and Sense of Belonging
Integration, as Dr. Crowder’s story illustrates, is a complex, multifaceted, and contingent process. For the Crowder family, integration was a gradual process of blending their Iranian culture with American customs, which was particularly important for Dr. Crowder’s parents in their new home. Iranian holidays, food, and traditions coexisted with American Christian holidays, creating a unique cultural space for her family.
However, integration was not always smooth, particularly when Dr. Crowder and her sister faced prejudice at school. They encountered bullying, and Dr. Crowder recalls being called a “terrorist” by classmates. “Back in the day, you could say shit like this,” she noted. “When they’d be like, ‘You’re the terrorist,’ I’d be like, ‘Yeah, and I know where you live.’” Despite their witty responses to such backlash, the bullying hindered the girls’ process in truly belonging with peers. In an effort to fit in, she and her sister sometimes lied about their heritage, telling even their closest friends that they were Greek or Italian instead of Iranian. Her sister said, “It was just very odd, because… you’re making friends, but it’s based on lies. It’s very odd.” This reflects how, for many immigrants, the process of belonging involves a negotiation between their cultural identity and the pressures to assimilate into mainstream society. Dr. Crowder’s experience highlights the painful adjustments and compromises many immigrants make to avoid discrimination and gain acceptance.
Cultural Preservation and Identity
Despite the challenges of fitting in, Dr. Crowder’s family maintained strong ties to their Iranian heritage. Her father’s connection to his homeland remained robust, as he regularly traveled to Iran to visit his remaining family members. Dr. Crowder’s mother and sister also kept these bonds strong.
Additionally, the sentimental objects brought to the U.S. by family and friends helped her parents preserve a link to their past. These cherished items, imbued with memories, were important for maintaining a sense of continuity between their past and present lives in America.
Conclusion
The Crowder family’s migration experience reflects the intersection of migration theories, legal frameworks, and the process of integration. Their journey highlights how push-pull factors and family networks drive migration, while the challenges they face in the labor market and with immigration policies reflect broader systemic issues. The Crowder family’s ability to integrate while maintaining their Iranian identity is a testament to the complex, contingent nature of integration.
Reflections
Sociological Reflection
Dr. Crowder’s migration story offers a rich perspective on how individual experiences of migration intersect with larger sociological concepts such as identity, integration, and the dynamics of belonging. Her family’s journey reflects both the challenges and resilience immigrants often face in a new society, particularly when dealing with the pressures to assimilate while striving to maintain cultural ties. This case study highlights how the integration process is not linear but multifaceted, involving a negotiation between one’s heritage and the need to adapt to new social and economic contexts. The balancing act of preserving Iranian traditions while adapting to American culture shows the dynamic and fluid nature of identity, shaped by both personal choices and external factors like school environments, labor markets, and legal policies.
Furthermore, Dr. Crowder’s reflections on the discrimination she faced in school reveal the deep psychological and social impact of prejudice on immigrant children. Her ability to reflect on these experiences with humor and resilience underscores the adaptability that many immigrant families develop, despite enduring moments of alienation and racism. Sociologically, this points to the importance of cultural preservation and the ways in which family networks and intergenerational ties help immigrants navigate these challenges, offering support and grounding through difficult times.
Positionality and Reflexivity
As the researcher and interviewer in this study, it is crucial to acknowledge how my own positionality might have influenced the interview process and the interpretations of Dr. Crowder’s story. Being an outsider to the immigrant experience, I approach the narrative with a lens shaped by my own cultural background and societal context. This awareness of my positionality helps me remain reflexive in analyzing the complexities of Dr. Crowder’s experience, particularly as it relates to themes of cultural identity and the negotiation of belonging. I must recognize the influence of dominant societal narratives about immigrants, which often oversimplify their experiences and overlook the nuances of personal stories like Dr. Crowder’s. Reflexivity ensures that I remain conscious of these biases and allows me to interpret her experiences with greater sensitivity and depth.
Conclusion
Broader Implications
Dr. Crowder’s story not only highlights the personal journey of one immigrant family but also serves as a microcosm for understanding the broader challenges and strategies that immigrant communities face in the U.S. Her family’s ability to adapt and persevere despite economic and social setbacks emphasizes the importance of resilience, community support, and cultural preservation. The integration process is not merely about adopting the dominant culture but finding ways to incorporate one’s own culture into a new life. For policymakers, educators, and social workers, this narrative offers insights into the emotional and social complexities immigrants encounter, urging them to consider how systems of support—such as family networks, inclusive education, and community spaces—can help facilitate smoother transitions.
Moreover, Dr. Crowder’s experiences of prejudice and the strategies she used to navigate school environments emphasize the need for greater cultural awareness and sensitivity in schools and workplaces. Creating inclusive spaces where cultural diversity is not only tolerated but celebrated can help reduce the kind of prejudice Dr. Crowder encountered. Additionally, her family’s entrepreneurial endeavors reveal the vital role that immigrant-owned businesses play in local economies, as well as the critical role of labor markets in immigrant integration.
Remaining Questions
While Dr. Crowder’s narrative offers a powerful glimpse into the immigrant experience, it raises several questions for further exploration:
- How do generational differences impact the integration process for immigrant children versus their parents?
- What role do educational institutions play in either facilitating or hindering the integration of immigrant students?
- How do policies and political climates shape the experiences of immigrants differently in various U.S. states or regions?
- To what extent do immigrant families alter or adapt their cultural practices to fit into the socio-cultural fabric of their new communities?
Final Thought
Dr. Crowder’s story serves as a reminder of the resilience, adaptability, and strength inherent in immigrant experiences. Her family’s journey of balancing two cultures—one that they left behind and one they were building in the U.S.—reflects the complexity and richness of immigrant life. It also serves as a call to action for fostering more inclusive communities that embrace and support cultural diversity, acknowledging that the integration process is a dynamic and multifaceted experience that requires understanding, compassion, and patience.
Perfect. All right, okay,
Jillian 0:14
so I based them around what I know already, which is very little but early life, before you moved here, because you were 12, yes, when you moved here, could you tell me about before you came to the US, yeah, and then how you or not you, but your parents chose where to move
Dr. Crowder 0:42
so I was born in Iran, and by the time I turned 11, the revolution happened, and that’s when my parents decided it was time to leave the Country, mainly because it was becoming apparent that the country would be very oppressive towards women, and my dad and mom, I guess thankfully recognized that, since they have two girls, I think if they had boys, they would have considered the military aspect. So for my sister and I, they knew we wouldn’t really have the kind of future that they had hoped for us, and so they decided to leave Iran, which at the time of the revolution wasn’t something you broadcast. They did it very suddenly and on the pretense of us going on vacation. So my parents, if you can imagine a house, their home, your home, my parents, well, my dad had to leave earlier, and I’ll tell you where he went. He left Iran before my mom and my sister and I moved and he went to Dubai, and he was there waiting for us to join him, because that was the easiest country to enter. From Iran. He didn’t need a visa or a lot of legal documentation to enter. So he was already out of the country, and he was important to leave because of his job. They were limiting people that were leaving the country because of their positions, because of their jobs, because of their connections to he worked for Whirlpool appliance company, which is an American, American, you know, maybe it wasn’t, but they because it was a foreign country, he was on a list of people that couldn’t leave the country possibly. So he wanted to get out as quickly as possible, because he was worried that they would detain him. And once he was able to leave, then it was my mom and my sister and I that needed to leave. And like I said, we couldn’t broadcast the fact that we were leaving the country. And I don’t know if my parents at that time realized that they would never go back, but what they did were a lot of people doing the same similar thing, yes, and so the night before we left, I remember this vividly, my mom, my sister and I sat in her bedroom, and we went through her jewelry, and she could only take some things, and my sister and I could only take some things because we were going to the airport with one suitcase, like we were going on vacation. We weren’t leaving the country. We were going on vacation. Did
Jillian 3:44
they what we had to say tell you that, like, did they frame it to you guys as a vacation? I don’t know if. Or did you know conversation
Dr. Crowder 3:52
that we have to leave this country? Excuse me, I will say I think we knew, because leading up to our departure. War was happening in our country. And there would be nights that my parents, when my dad was still in Iran, they would host parties, and then the sirens would go off where bombs were going. And so we’d have to go in the basement. Oh my god, and we could see the bombs going across the window, however far away they were we could see it. So war was happening, and so my sister and I knew the of some extent, the ramifications of us leaving because there was a war going on, and school had already changed. We were going to a Catholic school, and that had been shut down. We were going to a school where we had to cover our hair. We couldn’t wear the same clothing. So things had already changed by the time this happened so quickly. So things had already changed with the revolution that we knew nothing was the same, but at 11, I don’t think I quite understood what it all meant. Mm. So my mom, my sister and I shut the door to her home and went to the airport and never went back, so they just left their home, and over the years, family and friends have brought certain very sentimental things for my parents here, wherever they’ve been. You know her jewel, my mother’s jewelry, which is very special to her, something that might not make a lot of sense to a lot of people, but her photo albums. She has maybe 20 photo albums from over the years of them being in Iran and their lives. 20 might be an exaggeration. I’ll say half of that photo albums were very sentimental for her, her memories, her family photos and so forth. So things have been trickling to her over the years, but we left that night like we were planning on going on vacation. So we had a suitcase, we had some of our jewelry, and off we went, and that’s how we left.
Dr. Crowder 6:05
So we went to Dubai, and
Dr. Crowder 6:10
my dad spent however many months we were there trying to work because obviously he had to support his family. We lived in a very, very luxurious hotel in Dubai. My sister and I didn’t go to school. We had a tutor, and we were living the life. We would get up. The tutor would wake us up in the mornings because, like, she would show up at nine, and my sister and I weren’t ready, so she would wake us up, or my mom would frantically wake us up. We lived in a hotel, and the tutor would come teach us English, because we knew we were going to be coming to England. That’s where we were going next. From Dubai, we went to England, so we had a tutor teaching us English, and my sister and I sucked at it, and we lived there for three or four months. And other than the tutor coming to us for an hour, we just played. There was an ice skating rink in the hotel. There was a pool. We went fishing. We weren’t doing anything. How
Jillian 7:15
long was this? So I think we
Dr. Crowder 7:16
were there maybe four months. Three, four months.
Jillian 7:21
And did you know English by the time? No, okay, not 100%
Dr. Crowder 7:25
anyway, it’s not fluent at all. Maybe, I don’t know we could, we could carry on a conversation, but certainly not proper grammar and or fluent. So we then moved to England, and because we moved everywhere we moved, it was related to a family member that my dad had a connection with and in hopes of working with wherever he was going. So Whirlpool was also a company that had connections in England, and he had an uncle that worked for Whirlpool. So we he was there so that he could work again with whirlpool. We lived there, thinking, this is where we’re going to be. So my parents, I think, rented a house. We went and bought furniture, bought pots and pans. I remember exactly the day we went to the grocery store, which is like the Walmart, because it had groceries and pots and pans and sheets and towels. Tesco was the name of the store. Two carts. They’re, you know, going through the store, buying all the essentials, and enrolled my sister and I in a school there was only private schools in England that were worth anyone going to. I don’t know what the public school caliber was like then, but we went to a private school, but a uniform, and clearly we stuck out like sore thumbs because we were not British, but we were from Iran. Yeah, I had an afro. I had a Gina brow, it was. And we tried to blend in, you know, we try to be kids with the other kids. And it wasn’t,
Jillian 9:12
did you form a British accent while you’re I think
Dr. Crowder 9:14
I did for a minute. I think I did for a little bit. So we were there. I can’t remember how long. I’m gonna say a year maximum. We were there in England, and my mother became, I don’t want to say clinically depressed, but she didn’t like England. Yeah, it was gloomy. The weather was gloomy. She had no relatives and friends, other than my dad’s uncle and his wife. Then they were very close to them, and she was homesick, so we lived there for as long as we could, but then my parents had to find some other place because my mom couldn’t stay there. She was like, this is not going to work. Gap for me and my dad looked into moving to the United States. He had two brothers that lived in Texas and Oklahoma, one in each of the states, and we first entered Texas to be with the one brother. And still, my dad had not worked, so for these months, he was just supporting the family on his savings account and what have you. So we moved to United States, and his brother was an architect, is an architect still, and they decided to build houses together. My father’s background is in accounting. He knows nothing about building houses, but that’s what they did, and he couldn’t do it, and it was either in Texas or Oklahoma. When my sister comes, she can verify which state my parents, my dad, started to build houses with the brother and the other brother, and they were like townhouses, just row houses, nothing elaborate, but houses that he’d never done before. He started building townhouses, and this was in the early 80s, and suddenly the housing market tanked, and my dad was stuck with six, seven houses. But the bank was like, We need payment. We need payment. We need payment. So he went bankrupt and packed up our car. We had a Grand Am Pontiac. He packed up the car, and so my sister and I were going to school. Obviously, during those times, he packed up the car and we moved to Virginia, because, again, my dad had a cousin here, and he wanted to come and be with this cousin that had said, come to Virginia. You can start something here. And we moved to Virginia. We moved to Virginia Beach. That’s when we moved there. And my dad found a pizza shop that was for sale. And again, knew nothing about the pizza business, so he started to deliver pizzas for Domino’s to learn about the business, and ran this little shop, and they they grew the business. They did very well with it. It became like a family restaurant, there were so many regulars, there several of the customers over the years when my sister and I got married actually attended our weddings because they were such regulars. My parents, you know, they were working every day in the restaurant and the pizza place. My sister and I worked there too, and my husband will roll his eyes if I ever talk about me working there. He’s like working because he was convinced that we would just show up and eat. But we Yeah, my dad would drive us to neighborhoods and have us pass out flyers on the doors, put flyers on the doors. And I wasn’t old enough to drive at that point, so we would do whatever at the pizza shop, and they expanded it and just grew it, and it became, like I said, a restaurant, a dining kind of restaurant is it called? It’s called Val’s mini Italia, and I don’t know if you’ll want to put this in the paper or not, but so when my parents first moved to Virginia and they had this business, my dad was convinced that if he told his customers that we were from Iran, it would cause some animosity, or people would be racist and say comment or boycott the business. So he claimed that he had some Italian heritage if anybody ever asked him, and it got him in trouble a couple of times because a customer would say, oh, bonjour. No, come a sty and start talking to him Italian, and he’d be like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I don’t actually, so we’d have to, like, back that up. So they claimed for the longest time that they were Italian because they were scared for somebody to say something, or just they needed people, customers to come to the business. So they didn’t want people avoiding coming to the restaurant. And I don’t know. Maybe at some point they’d been just said, no, what Iranian or people figured it out after or just didn’t care? Yeah, maybe they just didn’t care, yeah, so they had that pizza shop for 15. 17 years, and they worked every day. They worked seven days a week. And like true immigrant stories, you know, they worked every day. They were always there. They micromanaged everybody that worked there. So they couldn’t have managers, of course, because, God forbid, somebody didn’t fold the box the right way. And so mom had to work there, dad had to work there. And when I got married and moved to Charlottesville, after three years of me being here in Charlottesville, they decided that they were going to retire, so they sold their business and they moved here. This is about 18 years ago, 20 years ago, almost, and they realized that they financially couldn’t really retire. So then they bought a coffee shop on the downtown mall, and they had that for 15 years. Which one job interesting? They sold it to this young lady who has since made it into a vegan restaurant botanical fair.
16:19
So as far as how I then ended up in Charlottesville, so I went to high school in Virginia Beach, and I remember distinctly one day, my sister, my mom, my dad and I, we were all in the car driving. I don’t know where we were going. We’re going somewhere. And my dad said I was probably a senior in high school at this point. And my dad said, What are you going to do when you go to college? What are you going to study? And I hadn’t thought at all about it. It’s like, I don’t know dad. I don’t have no idea. He’s like, Well, you want to be a nurse, you want to be a teacher, you want to be a librarian. Like, just, you know, women, traditional women, jobs. He’s like, he kept naming things. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he said, you know, also, I can’t remember our hygienist name, dental hygienist. We all had like cavities every time we went to the dentist. So we spent a lot of times with Dr Williams dental office getting dental work done, and we became very close to them. And the hygienist, my dad said, How about so and so’s job? What do you think about being a hygienist? I’m sure he didn’t know what the title was, but, you know, he was describing it to me. He’s like, how about that job? And I was like, Yeah, that sounds okay, too. And Old Dominion University happened to have a dental hygiene program, and so we I went there and I interviewed and applied, and that’s how I got into dental hygiene. It was at ODU, and within the first year, I knew that I couldn’t do that repetitive, mundane type of work. Plus, I think I have a chip on my shoulder, and I thought, if somebody’s going to have to tell me what to do a dentist, I don’t think I’m gonna do well with that. So I was also working in a dental office while I was going to school as an assistant with a dentist that whom I admired, and I thought he was the greatest thing. And I decided to do what Dr Chris Hooper was doing. So I wanted to be a dentist, and thankfully, I didn’t have to do a whole lot of prerequisites while I was getting my degree in dental hygiene. So I took a couple of summer classes and applied to dental school at VCU and got into dental school. Wow, and I’m convinced I could absolutely no way whatsoever get into dental school today, because it’s so freaking hard on how you guys do it. Getting into school is so challenging, but thank God, by the grace of God, I got into school.
Jillian 19:16
was the college conversation even a question at that point? Or Did you always know that you were going I was going to school? What was your attitude
about that?
Dr. Crowder 19:26
it was assumed that that would be the next step. It wasn’t a question. It was, what are you going to study when you’re in college? And I’ll be honest, I don’t know what my dad was thinking about. How he was going to afford to pay for school. I don’t think he thought about it, but a pizza shop doesn’t make but, you know, so much money. And I remember tuition was it was a community college at the time, Old Dominion University was a university, I don’t mean say Community College. Maybe I. Because there were a lot of, yeah, I wouldn’t a community college, but it was a very reasonable school. And I remember when my dad wrote my tuition check, you know, like $1,500 I was like, Holy shit, that’s so much money. How are you doing it? And they did, and they did and they did and put my my put me through school, and thank God my sister is a genius, because she got a scholarship to Dartmouth, and she went to Dartmouth, wow, and she’s the genius of the family, and she went away and she got grants, and she did it all on her own. Wow, I’m sure my parents
had to pay for right?
Jillian 20:39
What did she do in school?
Dr. Crowder 20:42
She studied fine arts in Dartmouth, and she just got her PhD in acupuncture. This is her second degree. So she went back to school five years ago, and she is now an acupuncturist.
Jillian 20:59
So then. between school and Charlottesville. How did that transition happen and meeting your husband? Yeah,
Dr. Crowder 21:07
that’s a fun story. So I was finishing dental school in Richmond. I applied to dental school that was a vcu. I didn’t say that I was in dental school, and I have some wonderful friends. We’re all just great class. Everybody got along, but four of the girls within my class lived together. One of them was Paige, the girl you just met with the skirt, and we lived together, and then she got married while we were in dental school, so she wasn’t living in my house that I was living in with the other girls. We had other roommates over the years and but obviously we were friends, and Paige and I have been friends ever since. And Kurt would come to some events in Richmond and we met, or I came here to Waynesboro. Excuse me, their family’s from Waynesboro. So I met him in Waynesboro, and he had a girlfriend. He was in a relationship, nothing of the kind. But somehow, along the way, after he graduated from college, went to VMI, he decided to go to dental school, and he then in my fourth year of dental school, as I was graduating, he started dental school, and we lived together because lease was ending. He picked up my lease of the house, so we lived together as friends. But after a little bit of time, we started dating, and we dated and dated. I was working in Virginia Beach after I graduated from dental school for the same doctor that I had worked for, Chris Hooper. And so I was going back and forth from Richmond to Virginia Beach, because Kurt was in school, but I was working in Virginia Beach. And after a year or so, I moved to Richmond and started working in Richmond, and we lived together, and then we got married in 2000 once we were married and Kurt graduated the following year. His father had a dental practice in Waynesboro, but he had passed Paige. My sister in law was working there, and Kurt was thinking he would also then work with Paige in Waynesboro. So we looked into living moving to Charlottesville so I could find a work for find work in Charlottesville, and he was going to work in Waynesboro.
Dr. Crowder 23:37
And so that’s how we ended up here.
Jillian 23:51
when you, like, tell this story to your kids. Like, how did that go? Like, was that something they always knew growing up about, like, was the culture a big part of raising them? Like, how did you decide? Yeah,
Dr. Crowder 24:12
do you know what I mean, it was very important for me to have the culture for them always present. And when my parents moved here to Crozet, like 18 years ago, it became even more consistent as far as the culture, because my parents were here, of course, we’re going to have Iranian food and talk about things and celebrate the holidays, the Iranian holidays, and also, of course, absorbing all the Christian holidays, but we would then incorporate the Iranian New Year and any other holiday. And so for the kids, I think it was just a part of their lives. It was never a question. They never questioned. Why are we talking about this? They. Always been a staple of their lives. The actual stories and conversations about what my father had to do to get us here may have been told to them over the years, but I don’t think, I think they know the majority of the story, maybe not in great detail.
Jillian 25:56
They never went back then. So have you ever been back?
Dr. Crowder 26:01
We have. We have. My father has a lot of his siblings still in Iran. Only one sibling is here in the United States. He is one of nine. Two have since passed, and his parents have passed my my dad’s 84 and he’s the oldest, and so he still has all of his siblings and other relatives in Iran. So it’s important for him to go back and forth. And for the longest time, honestly, he thought he would once the government was I can’t use the word predictable. It’s never predictable. But the first time he went, after so many years of being away, we were very scared, thinking they would detain him and a government like Iran, if you pay the government or the officials, enough money, you’re okay. And so when he first arrived at the airport, there was some questioning, and he had to go and talk to so and so and so and so and pay so and so these fines for not being in the country or whatever the reasons were, but it cleared his name, so that since then, he has been traveling to Iran very consistently. I have been back once. My mother has been back a couple of times, and my sister would be there every day of her life if she could. She loves Iran, and she goes back often. She goes back as much as my dad, if not more. So she goes to Iran at least every two years, if not once a year. And some years she’s gone twice a year. She wants to be in Iran. So for her, it’s very important that she has that connection. Still.
Jillian 28:01
How did it work with like citizenship and all of that? Yeah, England, yeah, here, yeah.
Dr. Crowder 28:12
When we first moved to the United States, my parents obtained a lawyer and if I am certain my dad were to ever compile the amount of money he had to pay, it would make someone just cry. But it took a lawyer, and it wasn’t always the same, because after, I don’t know why, sometimes twice, I think it happened where their lawyer just went rogue, just went missing, with all the work that they put into it, with all the time and what have you. And my dad did so many things to facilitate the green card, which is what you first have to have. It took 13 years for my parents to get their to get our green card, but every step of it was done legally, so they had a lawyer so they could never question us being in America, because we had someone working on the case. And that took 13 years. And then once we had our green card, there’s a certain amount of time you have to wait before you can then apply for citizenship. And I can’t remember that number. So after we had our green card, we then, after set number of years, became citizens.
29:39
And 13 years, 13 years my dad. There was a period
29:46
where my dad would fly to New York because he supposedly had the lawyer was saying, if you have a if you have a job in a corporate setting, it’ll be easier for you to become legal or some pretense like that. Yeah. So then he was flying to New York once a week to establish his business. Whatever this was, he was working for a clothing company. Again, that detail is a little great to me, but they did everything they could to obtain this green card. And it took so much time, so much time, but 13 years is how long it took them to get the green card
and then the citizenship
Unknown Speaker 0:46
very crazy.
Dr. Crowder
I know
Jillian 0:48
everything you shared about your dad- seems so diligent and so like we’re doing this the right way, persistent, yeah, which very admirable, but I know he did not take the easy way out in any situation
Dr. Crowder 1:11
no right. And again, as a parent, I think about, what if I had to do what they did? How would I do it? Would I say I’m gonna give up. And they had an incredible lifestyle in Iran, an incredible lifestyle, and to go from that to then deliver pizzas for Domino’s.
Jillian 1:40
I was thinking about that when you said, like they were throwing parties and all that jewelry, they were well off ?
Jillian 1:53
oh, wow,
Dr. Crowder 2:06
I know but I don’t think they they looked Back and questioned any of it.
2:17
It’s pretty remarkable.
2:24
But there’s so many of these stories. There’s so many of these stories, and it’s interesting, many, many Iranians that left Iran went to California. There’s a huge population of Iranians, especially in Los Angeles, because they gravitated towards the beautiful weather and the, you know, everything California has to offer. And so there are so many Iranians living in especially Los Angeles and other areas of this of the state. So my parents, I think if they questioned anything with their decisions, is, why didn’t they go to California? I think it would have been easier, because we have so many family members there for my dad to come to Virginia for the one two family members, and there were years, I’m sure, where they’re wishing they could be on the West Coast, because my dad, again, comes from an enormous family, and he’s got 30 aunts and uncles and so forth that live in California, so they could have been closer to that. But for whatever reason,
Speaker 2 3:35
that was my biggest question, because I looked on your website like the small blurb there, and I was like, Virginia Beach of all places.
Dr. Crowder
Why?
3:50
yeah, one cousin who my dad wasn’t very close to anyway, but that’s who prompted
4:00
Jill. This is my sister, Yassi
Jillian
Hi. Nice to meet you.
Dr. Crowder 4:03
Jill is good- Well, we’ve known Jill for a while. May I say girlfriend, what- friends with Ray? Friends with Ray Jill? This is my brother in law, John.
Jillian
Nice to meet you.
Jill is taking a class. She- Are you a sociology
6:05
major immigration class?
6:06
Yeah, sociology of immigration. So she is asking about
6:12
how we ended up here.
6:16
And I was just getting all emotional for a second talking about Dad and so, yeah, I hope I told her everything accurately, but there’s some gray areas.
Jillian 6:31
trying to remember which,
6:33
oh, where did you build the houses? Was it Oklahoma or Texas?
Yassi
Texas? We were just there for like, six months. I think, and then we were in Oklahoma for like a year and a half, I think, and
Dr. Crowder 6:46
that’s where both brothers were there, or Hossein was there. Hossein, I know, wasn’t. He was also there. Did he move with us from Texas? I them. Yeah, so Oklahoma is where those houses, those little townhouses, were built.
Jillian 7:09
I wanted to ask more about the when you were all were younger, what’s the age difference?
7:19
Okay, when you moved to England,
7:24
that transition when you said you stuck out like a sore thumb. Yeah, any stories about that?
Dr. Crowder 7:32
I think I felt more
7:37
different when we moved to America, maybe I just did, yeah, maybe I just didn’t know as much in England
7:50
versus in Oklahoma and Texas.
Dr. Crowder 8:11
Yeah, tell Do you remember some funny stories about us, like how different we were, or any comments? Oh, my God, yes. Wait, y’all see, has such better memory. Yeah, like, there was this really funny thing
Yasi 8:29
there. Yeah, there’s so many, like, little random things.
8:32
But I don’t know why. For some reason I remember, like, in England, so weird that I have this memory. So I handed someone, you know, we’re in class, whatever, doing arts and crafts. So I hand someone
8:45
scissors, and the teacher runs over,
8:48
and she’s like, You handed that to her. I mean, this is safety scissors, right? Like, this way, like pointing. And she was like, That’s how Jesus died. And I was like, I know nothing about Jesus Christianity. And I was like, Oh, my God, was I about to kill this person? I was so confused.
Dr. Crowder 9:28
oh my god, chips,
9:32
fish and chips, peas, butter
Yasi 9:34
and banana sandwiches. And I was like, this is the best thing ever, not peanut butter, butter butter in England, that was like
Yasi 9:50
in Virginia, right? Or anytime once we moved here, our parents did not let us, like spend the night at anyone’s house. That’s just not something our. Culture does, like, go to a random person’s house. When you think about it that way, you’re like, it is actually really weird to send your child to someone’s home. You don’t know them, and they sleep there. My parents were like, What are you talking like? Anyone who do that with family? Yeah, right. Cousins, of course, all the time, but a random friend from school. Absolutely, it’s just not anything so unfair, right? So people, you know, my friends, were like, anyone can come here and spend the night anytime, but not you will know you’re going you’re right, random person’s house. Yeah. And so now when I think of like, of course, especially for them, they didn’t know these people didn’t know this culture, like, what? Who? What? No,
Dr. Crowder 10:43
oh, let’s talk about mom. So you know, my Yasi and I were younger, and being in school, we picked up English much faster than my parents, who weren’t in a like an academic setting. My mom, I think, took some classes, some dad maybe, took some classes, but the way my mother learned English was from watching soap operas and Dallas, oh yeah, and or dynasty, like those shows that were so popular in the 80s. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of the shows, but she would watch soap operas, and
11:18
that’s how she learned
Yasi 11:25
we first moved to Texas and Oklahoma, I think Oklahoma, we started to tell people where we’re actually from. But our parents was, at that time, there was actually a lot of like animosity towards Iranians in this country not vote like at all. So my parents were like, You can’t tell anyone you’re from Iran. And
11:41
we were like, What do we tell people?
11:45
We don’t look American here. And so they’re like, tell them you’re Greek or Italian. And so I would, I would tell someone, yeah, Italy.
11:53
And then I remember, come over, you
Yasi 11:56
know, they’d be like, our house, obviously doesn’t we’re not cooking Italian food, they’d be like, This doesn’t look like Italian food. I’d like, oh, I mean, you know Italy and Greek doesn’t look like Greek food to you. Sense of like we lied, right? We had to lie. So you had it was just very odd, because you had this sort of, you’re making friends, but it’s based on lives. It’s very odd.
Unknown Speaker
Dr. Crowder 12:46
yeah, let’s think of some more fun stories
So imagine God, 40 years ago, somebody saying whatever, whatever they could about that the fact that we didn’t look the same, we surely we stuck out like sore thumb to me, particularly yassi had, yeah, as you can see, she has very fair skin and her color of her eyes and her hair, but so you didn’t, you didn’t have the unibrow. I unibrow. I had the black Afro hair. And, yeah, no, I do remember
Yasi 14:01
somewhere where we were, I think, I guess, obviously they knew we were Iranian. And, you know,
14:06
Nellie and I were like, these tiny little
14:08
girls, like we were not, you know, anyway, I was walking down the hallway, and someone’s like, someone who was like, Oh, my God, the terrorist. And I remember being like, where looking at me and I’m like me?
Dr. Crowder
duck!
Jillian 14:30
Oh my God, two 80 pound girls?
Yasi 14:39
Totally. Gosh Yeah. But then I
14:43
remember I started to get pissed at some point. And this was, like, back in the day where you could say shit like this. Nowadays, obviously I’d be like, arrested in a second if I said this. But then when they’d be like, Oh my God, you’re the terrorist, I’d be like, Yeah, and I know where you live. I.
Jillian 15:00
Ah, that’s the perfect response.
[laughter]
Jillian 17:42
I Yeah, well, I think that wraps it up. Yeah, yeah,
17:49
thank you for your story.
Dr. Crowder
Everything was so fun to kind of go through that.
Jillian 17:55
Thank you.
Dr. Crowder 17:59
Yeah, feel like we should really share this with the kids, like, make sure they know.
Unknown Speaker 19:01
if you want any pictures, let me know.
Unknown Speaker 19:03
Oh yeah, I was thinking that when you said the photo albums.
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