Interview with Assi
this is a photo of my mother and aunties and I on my 18th birthday dinner. My mother is on the far left 🙂
Methodology:
To conduct an interview with my mother about her journey as an immigrant in the United States, I will use a semi-structured approach, allowing for open-ended questions that encourage detailed responses while maintaining focus on key themes such as her motivations, challenges, and successes. The interview took place in a comfortable, private setting to ensure she felt at ease sharing her experiences. Questions were prepared in advance but adapted as needed to explore her unique perspectives and memories in greater depth. An audio recording was used (with her consent) for accuracy in capturing her story.
Introduction:
I interviewed my mother, Assi, for this project. She was born in the capital of Ethiopia, Addis Ababa. My mother left Ethiopia around 15 or 16 years old. She left to avoid mandatory military service duties in Ethiopia. During the 1990’s, Ethiopia was in the midst of a civil war. This civil war was between what is now known as the nation of Eritrea and Ethiopia. Eritrea wanted to secede from Ethiopia which led to a brutal war between the two nations. My mother was a child who did not believe in the cause for the war. She had many friends who were Eritrean who she did not want to fight against. She ultimately made the decision to leave Ethiopia because if she did not join the military, she would be barred from going to a university. It is very difficult to live in Ethiopia with a college degree. She and many other Ethiopians fled to the Middle East for more economic opportunities. It was simpler for them to migrate to the Middle East in comparison to a western country like the United States, Canada, Australia, or the United Kingdom. My mother lived in the country of Bahrain for around 7 years before she moved to the United States.
What made the United States so appealing to her was the educational opportunities available to her. Her Arabic was not strong enough nor did she have enough money to attend the universities in Bahrain. After spending a short amount of time in the United Kingdom after leaving Bahrain, she then moved to the United States, where her uncle was already naturalized as a U.S citizen, and where her grandmother had a green card.Having family in the United States helped her tremendously. She first came to the United States on a visitor’s visa in 2000. Over time, political corruption in Ethiopia worsened. Her father, who was a military pilot, was arrested as a political prisoner. Her home was stripped away from her family and all their money was taken away. She then applied for asylum in the United States.
Getting Her Asylum Documents, Citizenship, and Struggles in the U.S
She was successful in gaining her asylum. After gaining her asylum documents, she began working in cafes whilst balancing school as a university student. She eventually abandoned school in order to support her family in Ethiopia financially. She then eventually gained her green card. Over time, she married my American father, Jeffrey, in 2004. I was born in 2005 and my two twin siblings were born in 2006. She was naturalized as a citizen of the United States in 2007. She initially had no intention of becoming a U.S citizen. She was a proud Ethiopian. Despite how weak the Ethiopian passport was, being Ethiopian is such a vital aspect of her identity. What encouraged her was having a family in the United States.
My mother then had to make the decision of whether she would give up her Ethiopian citizenship or not. She wanted to be a dual citizen but unfortunately that option was not available. Ethiopia does not allow dual citizenship. She then opted for what is known as a “yellow card” in Ethiopia as a replacement for her citizenship. The yellow card is an Ethiopian Origin ID card that serves the purpose of allowing holders to enter the country without a visa, residency permit, or work permit. It allows her to continue to go to Ethiopia without her needing to be an Ethiopian citizen. My mother integrated fairly well into the United States due to having such a tight knit community to support her in the United States. Despite becoming a naturalized citizen and the welcoming environment of the United States, she still felt like a foreigner nonetheless. She discussed how confusing her identity felt. She left Ethiopia when she was a teenager and had to become an adult quickly to be able to survive. When she was able to go back to Ethiopia, she experienced people assuming she was not Ethiopian, which hurt her because she is so proud to be Ethiopian. It plays such an important part of her identity. She had become very westernized after living in Bahrain and the United States in her teens and twenties which was confusing to her. She struggled to understand who she was. In America she felt more Ethiopian than she did American and in Ethiopia people thought of her as more American than Ethiopian. She discussed how despite how welcomed she was, the United States was very different from Ethiopia culturally, which could feel isolating at times. Ethiopia is a culture that focuses on the collective. The United States and many other western cultures put emphasis on the individual over the collective.
My mother was very lucky to have a pre existing community in the United States. Over time, more and more Ethiopians and Eritreans moved to the United States. It is very common today to see large populations of Ethiopians and Eritreans in the DMV (D.C, Maryland, Virginia) area, Texas, Washington, and California. My mother and many other Habeshas (person belonging to the ethnic groups inhabiting Ethiopia and Eritrea) developed a close knit community here. My mother and the rest of my family visit Ethiopia often. We still have a lot of family in Ethiopia who we care for deeply. Despite the joy it brings her to go back to her home, she still experiences hurt witnessing that the political corruption that existed when she was a child, still existed today, but in a different format. Ethiopia since the Eritrean Ethiopian war has gone through another civil war, known as the Tigray War, which had took the lives of 500,000 people in 2022. Ethiopia is still being run by evil politicians that profit off the suffering of its citizens.
My mother loves her country dearly, but Ethiopia unfortunately is not a good place to live in. It is a hell on earth for many of the citizens there who suffer from the political corruption, war, and poverty that occurs. She was privileged to have so many resources in the United States that made her immigration and naturalization process so smooth. She revealed the biggest hardship of the citizenship process was the financial aspect. She explained that at the time, she spent around $10,000 dollars to become a citizen. The price to legally immigrate into the United States today has most likely increased significantly since 2007. The application paperwork, the asylum paperwork, the passport paperwork, the lawyers, etc was not a cheap expense. Becoming a citizen in the United States is difficult when one does not have the finances to become one.
Integration into the U.S Workforce + Culture Shocks
When integrating into American work society she felt equipped for the American work force after working in Bahrain, which is a country that is full of national diversity. The United States was not her first time interacting with national diversity. She had worked with people of various cultures in Bahrain, especially Americans. The work culture is also similar to the United States. She also had strong English skills that equipped her to be more successful in the American work force. My mother learned English in Ethiopia. She also spent a lot of time speaking English in Bahrain as it is a huge international network. The ability to speak English in the United States plays an immense role in an immigrant’s experience. The ability to speak English gives one access to a wider range of jobs. It also helps in forming connections with others who are not Ethiopian.
English also aided her in navigating the systems here in the United States. The immigration system is detailed and complex. The legal language that you must absorb in itself is difficult. She had a greater understanding of legal rights and how to seek help. Her experience in the United States was much more positive than others because she could navigate these systems more easy. Her biggest culture shock when it came to working in the United States was the concept of personal income tax. Bahrain is a tax-free nation. A significant portion of Bahrain’s wealth and government revenue is from the oil industry. She was very confused as to why her salary had reduced significantly. Her boss had to explain to her how a portion of her paycheck goes to taxes which shocked her beyond belief.My mother no longer works in the serving or hotel industry anymore. She went on to be a stay at home mom after she gave birth to 3 children under 2 years old. Being an immigrant in the United States is a journey that is defined by opportunity and resilience. My mother had to navigate a very different culture from hers. She had to adopt and understand new cultural and social attitudes from the U.S whilst maintaining the rich traditions and values of her Ethiopian culture.
Immigrants like my mother contribute so much to the United States diversity, innovation, and economy. Being an immigrant in the United States forges a unique path that blends the past with the promise of a brighter tomorrow. It creates a legacy of strength and hope for future generations like myself. I am beyond thankful to my mother for coming to the United States and giving me opportunities that are not available to me in Ethiopia.I am beyond thankful to her for pushing me to be as educated as possible and to become the woman I am today. For pushing me to prove to everyone that I can be anything I want if I work hard enough with the opportunities I have available. I know determination exists because I am full of it. I am full of it because my mother is full of it. And she pushes me every day to be the absolute best version of myself.
Photo of my mom, little sister, and me.
my mother and I at my high school graduation
JMU Interview
[00:00:00] Sophia: Hello, this is Sophia Spaulding and I’m going to do my interview project on my mother. Mama, would you like to introduce yourself? Yes. Hello, my name is Asi Spaulding and I’m Sophia’s mom. Uh, Mama, what country did you immigrate from? I’m from Ethiopia. Okay. Uh, What year did you come to the United States for the first time?
[00:00:24] Assi: Uh, I came to the United States the first time in 1998 and visiting my grandmother and my uncle who lives here in Virginia.
[00:00:34] Sophia: Fun. Uh, did, were they citizens at this point or did they just have their green cards? Uh,
[00:00:42] Assi: my grandmother, she has a green card. My uncle, he has a citizen. He has been living in this country for a long,
[00:00:49] Sophia: long time.
Okay. Why did you end up leaving Ethiopia?
[00:00:55] Assi: In Ethiopia, uh, because of civil war. And for the youngest people, it was very hard at that moment. And our government start recruiting or giving us national service or military service. And from age 11, To H anything he’d done. So as a time I was 15 and my father decided not to send us for the civil war national service, so he provide to send us some country we Can’t escape that chaotic
[00:01:33] Sophia: situation.
What would be the Consequence if you ended up not joining or the military or not doing your national service? Like what was the consequences back then?
[00:01:44] Assi: The consequence was you cannot go back to school, no matter what. You burned from school. Not only school, you burned from works. So your life practically is just paralyzed.
Yeah. So you have to leave the country if you decide not to do that. Mm.
[00:02:03] Sophia: And what country did you first choose to go to? Because I understand that the U. S. was not your first choice. Like, stop outside of Ethiopia. You went somewhere else first. What country did you first go to?
[00:02:13] Assi: I went to Bahrain. Bahrain is one little island in the Middle East.
And it’s such a wonderful, beautiful country. And, uh, You are able to work and study. And, but your studying is Kind of courses and classes you can take but not permanent college classes. They give it to you So that’s the place I was
[00:02:39] Sophia: Bahrain is such an itty bitty little country like you can barely see her on the map, but she’s so tiny Very tiny you can’t
[00:02:45] Assi: drive there Bahrain, like within two hours north to south, south to, and Saudi to Dubai, Dubai to Qatar.
I mean, you cannot wrong.
[00:02:55] Sophia: Yeah. It’s like a full on road trip to get to those countries. Uh,
[00:02:59] Assi: and the popular, how big is the population again? The population, the Bahraini is 1 million Bahraini. And, but Bahrain is such stunned by foreign labors. So when I was there, It was like 3 million foreigner and 1 million Bahrain, which is 4 million people lives in that little island.
[00:03:21] Sophia: True. So that was like your first like introduction to like national diversity. Like you got to see so many ethnicities, nationalities, languages, ethnicities.
[00:03:32] Assi: Unbelievable. It is like the entire world. I mean, you will find a person who’s from Bhutan. I mean. I mean, from Bhutan is finding in Bahrain is amazing.
So you find Filipino, Europeans, and Africans, Asians. So yeah, it’s such a diverse kind of place.
[00:03:55] Sophia: How many years did you stay in Bahrain? I stayed for seven years. Oh, wow. That’s a long time. So you stayed from when you were like 15 to 20 ish. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So what led you to, like, what led you to go to the United States?
Like, what was the most appealing part of the United States?
[00:04:20] Assi: Uh, the most important thing is for me to go to college and in Bahrain, I can’t because I’m not Bahraini and unless you are Bahraini, you have to study in English school and their English school is very expensive. So. I came to the United States just to join the college and study.
That was
[00:04:46] Sophia: my first intention. Oh my gosh. Would you say that it was the most common, like, route for Ethiopians to go to a Western country? Like, they would first do some work in the Middle East, then go to the United States? Like, what would you think is more common? Like, the Ethiopians and Eritreans that just went directly to a Western country, or the Ethiopians who went for a Middle Eastern country, like Lebanon, Bahrain, the UAE, Saudi, and then went to a Western country?
Like, what did you think is the most common route? Um, I would
[00:05:18] Assi: say, in our time, is really Oopsies! Well, that’s a thing. Here, keep talking. Sorry! It’s, it’s great, um, the door was open in the Middle East. When we say Middle East, it’s like, doesn’t really include Saudi and Kuwait because they are such oppression.
First of all, you have to be Muslim to go to Saudi. I’m a Christian person and I’m not allowed to go to Saudi Arabia. And but Bahrain is I was not aware of that. Oh. Oh, yeah. You have to definitely be Muslim, unless you are Western. So if you’re British, American, and the rest of the European country, you are able to go if it’s work visa or something, or you have to go for haji or just those, haji means prayer.
Oh, okay. So, end of the day, you’re still Muslim. So but Bahrain is now, so most people, they got a chance with a small amount of money To go to Bahrain and work and build the money and go back wherever the western world and study or that’s what we Mostly you’re right
[00:06:31] Sophia: So what was the year that like you like came to the United States to stay 2000.
- Okay. What school did you
[00:06:41] Assi: go to? I went to Marymount and But before Marymount I have to take classes It’s kind of TOEFLs, which is TOEFLs for foreign, uh, students. You have to study English and that English test you have to pass. That’s the kind of, I was doing.
[00:07:01] Sophia: Did you come to the United States knowing English or did you not know a lot of English?
Could you talk to us about your English history? Um, English.
[00:07:11] Assi: Okay. That’s really, because Bahrain is, we communicate with English language. Mostly, and so that speaking English is like we learn more from like speaking, not from studying. So grammatically you will be wrong, but you know how to communicate English.
So that much English we know, but when it comes to study, you have to study like grammar usage. Those are, when I was here, I think I go to school to study
[00:07:44] Sophia: it. Okay. There we are. So Was it difficult to get a job in the United States? Cause you weren’t on a student, were you on a student visa at that point?
Or
[00:07:54] Assi: no, I was, it’s a good question. I was in tourist, uh, visiting visa.
[00:07:59] Sophia: Okay.
[00:08:00] Assi: Then while I was here visiting visa to change my visa to student visa, which is, you are very allowed and in my country, those, that government, the communist government was overthrown by other government. And. , which is government. And ethnically we are Amara.
Mm-hmm . And that government was and my father was a pilot and um, they think he is the upper class of Amara. So because of that, they throw him in jail, they suffocate his house. And while I’m here within like a few months, it was. Because my family was in chaotic. So my dad said, you can’t come back. I mean, you have to stay there.
So I changed my mind, going to school, and I have to start working to help my brother and sister who’s in Ethiopia, because we lost everything. From the bank, our money, our house, and my father is in jail. So That, that changed everything and instead of going to school, the money I saved for student visa, I send it back home and I immediately apply for asylum so I can work and my asylum was granted and I got a job, getting a job.
Wait,
[00:09:39] Sophia: so for asylum, how long did the asylum process take? The asylum
[00:09:44] Assi: process takes a year, but, saying that, when you are filling the form and become asylee, Excuse me.
[00:09:54] Sophia: I’m choking on my water. I’m sorry. Keep talking. I’m sorry.
[00:09:58] Assi: When you are filling, uh, when the asylum officer accepting your paperwork. So you are able to work legally.
Okay. I don’t want to be illegal. So I wasn’t working until then. I was staying with my grandmother and my uncle as a time without work. And I’m fortunate. I have a family to stay without, you know, paying great or worrying about food. So after I fill up, Those asylum, the asylum paper allow me to work. And, uh, until my asylum process is approved or disapproved.
Okay. If I’m disapproved, I have to leave the country. If I’m approved, I can’t stay in this country. So the asylum, I remember, actually, the asylum officer cried when he interviewed me.
[00:10:51] Sophia: Aww. He
[00:10:52] Assi: was so sad. About my story. And, uh, yeah. It is such a touchy.
[00:11:02] Sophia: Yeah, cause Ethiopia’s war history is in government oppression.
History is not for the weak. Yeah. That’s for sure. So Ethiopians can’t catch a break.
[00:11:13] Assi: I know.
[00:11:13] Sophia: They really cannot. It’s sad.
[00:11:16] Assi: It’s a beautiful country. Yeah. It’s just Political traumatized by war and by civil war. And so I, I am, to answer your question, is my asylum. It takes me only a year. And 2001, I was approved by asylum and it’s such amazing, actually, my asylum paper is approved September 11th, 2001.
[00:11:44] Sophia: I forgot about that. I forgot about that.
[00:11:47] Assi: Oh my gosh. So that paper, wherever I go, wasn’t accepted. They said, what do you mean you are approved that day? That day’s office is closed, everything is messed up. How did you get this paper? I was like, I don’t know. They said to me, must be pre approved. So it was Monday, I remember even.
I was so excited because my, I mean, am I, gonna be sent home or am I gonna get my asylum? So that Monday I’ve been waiting and then one o’clock my appointment is 10 o’clock is the New York, the Twin Towers is down. Yeah. And everything was closed. So, but still I got my asylum. So my gosh, it takes me one year.
[00:12:37] Sophia: Wait, in what situation would they have to see your asylum papers? Like, was this like for plane travel, or like, what was it for?
[00:12:43] Assi: Yes, because I cannot go back home after my asylum, and my mom really, she just misses me, I miss her, I miss all of them, of course. So my mom traveled to Bahrain, and She went to Bahrain?
Really? Yes, yeah. I didn’t know that. Oh yeah, she did went to Bahrain and I went here in, in America, they will give you travel document. It looks like a passport, blue passport, look, but it says travel document. It’s not United States passport or any country’s passport. So I got that and I travel to see my mother there because I cannot get in Ethiopia.
If they find me, they will arrest me for sure.
[00:13:29] Sophia: Who? The US or um, European government? No, the European government. Okay. So did I. You like Bahrain? She loves Bahrain. Yes. Was that her first time in Bahrain? I didn’t know she was in Bahrain at all.
[00:13:40] Assi: Yeah,
[00:13:40] Sophia: it’s her first time.
[00:13:42] Assi: Mm-hmm. She adores it. Aw, such beautiful place,
[00:13:46] Sophia: by the way.
Yeah, a hundred percent. My gosh. So in terms. We talked a lot about, um, how you were going to send money back to Utopia. At the time, because I know BRRRR has changed a lot since the 2000s, it’s gotten a lot weaker since the 2000s. If you could make a, like, a rough estimate, what is the, like, what’s the My lord, I’m stuttering on my words.
How much is, like, one American dollar in BRRRR? Which is the currency of, um, Ethiopia. When? In like, the time you were working, like, 2000. And 2000 is Because it’s definitely changed now. It was It
[00:14:23] Assi: is one Because I remember clearly. Because it is one dollar was twelve Ethiopian birr. And, but saying that now is 1 is 25, a 125.
Oh my God, it’s gotten so bad. It’s so bad. It’s like triple, I mean, I, God knows.
[00:14:44] Sophia: And on top of that, we let it float on the market. Yeah. I don’t know why they did that. That was the smart and the slightest. Oh my God. Yeah. So yeah. The economy’s definitely struggling.
[00:14:55] Assi: Very much. Yeah. My goodness. So in Ethiopia, they’re struggling.
A lot of people.
[00:15:01] Sophia: Yeah. So
[00:15:02] Assi: sad.
[00:15:03] Sophia: So what did the job searching process look for you as in like an immigrant who was on a, you were on an asylum visa? Wait, so with an asylum visa, you can, asylum visa, is that what you call it? It’s green card. Wait, you’re right.
[00:15:16] Assi: You’re right. Asylum
[00:15:17] Sophia: visa. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, is it difficult to get a, it’s not difficult to get a job on It was, is it easy to get a job on it?
’cause I know it’s different from like a student visa and a tourist visa, like a tourist visa. You can’t get a job at all.
[00:15:27] Assi: No,
[00:15:27] Sophia: it’s, yeah. And then on a student visa, you had to, you couldn’t get 21 can, I thought you could only get it if it’s like on the school, like Right. Wasn’t it? Like, can’t you only get a job if it’s through the
[00:15:39] Assi: school?
It not, I mean, nowadays, I don’t know. But our time was. You can work wherever you want, 21 hours a week. That’s it. That’s the max you have to, and you have to take like at least like 17 or 18 credit hours to be student visa. Okay. You cannot do less and so, yeah. So what did the job search look like
[00:16:08] Sophia: for
[00:16:08] Assi: you?
For me was, I, again, it’s such. Big thing is when you have family here. And, um, my uncle lived here and he was working in the hotel business. So he knows so many peoples and, um, he got me a job, but saying that is the job you getting here is like the very, you have to start from the bottom kind of, because of the English is speaking all in all.
And so, yeah, it was, it was okay for me. But I see so many people struggle to get a job for a long time. Yeah. As soon as I got my paper, I got a job as, yeah. But what was your first job? My first job was a coffee shop. And, um, but I do work two jobs and also go to school on top of the two jobs. And, uh, my early morning job was making coffee.
And my Evening job was, um, a restaurant waitress and in between class I go. And it was very tough.
[00:17:23] Sophia: Yeah, I can imagine. Practically
[00:17:24] Assi: I start my journey four o’clock in the morning. I finish like midnight and sleep a few hours. Oh
[00:17:31] Sophia: my
[00:17:31] Assi: gosh, that’s so sad. And I have to use also a train and a bus because I am not driving.
So yeah, those also consume your time.
[00:17:41] Sophia: Oh my
[00:17:41] Assi: gosh.
[00:17:43] Sophia: So were there any U. S. work norms that like shocked you or caught you off guard?
[00:17:49] Assi: Uh, for me, didn’t because you know why? Because I lived in Bahrain, Bahrain is the most Western, Middle Eastern you can find. And I got it all there already. I’ve been trained to there when I was in Bahrain.
Yes. Shocked me so many things. One thing I know when I come here. Shocked me is paying tax. I couldn’t believe it. Yes. And my first paycheck, can I speak about it? Yeah, you can go for it. Go for it. So, my first paycheck. In Bahrain, you work, you got your paycheck. If it’s 1, 000 you work, you got your 1, 000 direct in back.
That’s it. And your health insurance, everything is paid by your employee. And No tax at all. I mean, that’s the whole life. I know is that I came in this country my first paycheck was like garnish crazy like unbelievable and I just want to talk to my boss and I think what’s going on sit he said what happened and I My money is half of my man is gone and he said that’s that’s what this tax.
He said He was so refreshing. What tax? Why am I paying tax? So that is really, he sees my naiveness and he explained to me. And yeah, that is like shocking, shocking for me. That much money American people paid for tax. But I see now when I leave for school, for the road, for all this police. I mean, now I understand.
Yeah. Oh
[00:19:31] Sophia: my Lord. We already went over this question. So, in total, how many years did it take you to become a U. S. citizen? It takes me seven years to become a U. S. citizen. So you became a citizen in 2007? Seven years. Oh wow. And by then I have like three kids. You’re right, you did. I forgot about that. Oh my goodness.
So, we’re at this point in your immigration process. You You’ve gotten your, um, your visiting visa. You then switched to an asylum visa. Yes. So, what happened next?
[00:20:13] Assi: After asylum, they give you a green card. Okay. So, that green card is, means, uh, a resident permiss
[00:20:24] Sophia: Sorry it cut off. Let’s continue talking.
[00:20:29] Assi: So, they give us the day you go and swear and that you pledge. And you say that will be the United States of America citizen and serve and love and all the things they ask you and believe to do. And so they give you a certificate with some number on it. And that certificate you will take and apply passports.
That’s the way it works. Okay. And you change your social security from, uh, As the green card person
[00:21:06] Sophia: and then
[00:21:07] Assi: citizen American social security you become you go social security office and make it I am an American now. I Change my social security to as Americans citizen
[00:21:19] Sophia: Sounds like so much work. Yes Yeah, but yeah my goodness Overall though, I know you said it was a very smooth process, but what would you say was the most hard part of the process?
Like, was it just like the, what’s a word? The annoyingness of having to go through all that work.
[00:21:40] Assi: Oh, I mean, you, the process, the number, knowing the law, the rule, the regulation is mind boggling. I mean, you have to hire a lawyer, which it cost you a lot. Otherwise, you will never do it in the right way.
[00:21:57] Sophia: So,
[00:21:57] Assi: most people say like, I will do it, I’m not going to pay.
They fail because just the rule and the regulation they missed. So, that’s the mind boggling and that’s the hardest thing is really for most immigrants. And you don’t have enough money, paying like 4, 000 and above for lawyer. And, yeah. That sounds also very expensive. Oh my gosh. Very expensive.
[00:22:20] Sophia: And the
[00:22:20] Assi: green card also not cheap.
How
[00:22:22] Sophia: much does a green card usually
[00:22:24] Assi: cost? My time was 2, 000, but now I believe it’s more even.
[00:22:29] Sophia: Yeah.
[00:22:30] Assi: How much does it,
[00:22:30] Sophia: was like, I use?
[00:22:34] Assi: Cost?
[00:22:34] Sophia: Yeah, how much does she, when did she get her green card?
2012? Was it 2012? Has it been that long? Yeah. Why did I think it was so much later? Oh my gosh.
[00:22:49] Assi: That’s my mother, yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:22:51] Sophia: Okay. Um, Uncle Barakat doesn’t have a green card yet, so we can’t base it off him either. Oh my gosh. I was about to ask you how much is it now, but I don’t think you would know.
Yeah, I didn’t know now. Oh my gosh.
[00:23:04] Assi: But I bet you it’s, it’s really, everything is getting expensive. Yeah. Trust me, it’s not gonna be less than what I told
[00:23:12] Sophia: you. In total, how much just like Like, how, if you had to make a prediction, how much did the immigration process cost for you? It was expensive, I bet.
[00:23:21] Assi: I mean, I got the rights the first time I granted my asylum,
[00:23:27] Sophia: and
[00:23:29] Assi: that’s a big deal.
Some people, they didn’t do it the right way, or they don’t, they think they don’t deserve the asylum. And they appeal the court. You have to pay the court fee. You have to pay another the lawyer fee. It cost you like more than 10, 000. 10,
[00:23:47] Sophia: 000?
[00:23:48] Assi: Yes.
[00:23:49] Sophia: 10, 000? Yes. That’s so much money. Oh my gosh. So that was just for the asylum stuff.
Like how much is like the interviews and the social security and the green
[00:24:02] Assi: cards. Yeah, all of that. Just, oh, in total, everything’s around 10,000 total. Yeah, the Social Security thing. Actually Social Security is the one free thing. Free. Oh, it’s free, okay. Yes. But you paid for like from asylum, from Green Card to when you apply for the passport, you pay 800, $780.
You paid just to apply. Your passport, but again, where is it? I’m not complaining about that, but just to let you know the price. Geez, that’s a lot. Oh my gosh.
[00:24:39] Sophia: So at one point you were just a permanent resident. You were just a green card holder. So what pushed you to naturalize and become a citizen? Like what was more appealing about being a citizen than it was having a green card?
Uh, my,
[00:24:58] Assi: um, My husband is American and my three children are Americans. I don’t see separating myself from them. Before that, I don’t see, I’m happy to live in this country with my green card. Fine, yeah? And I keep still the Ethiopian passport. And I can live as much as I want. What they told me is, as soon as I have a family and I have Not included with the citizen.
I didn’t like it. I said, like, I have to be like them. And so that’s the reason really the first time pushed me to be American citizen.
[00:25:40] Sophia: So are you currently a dual citizen or do you have one citizenship? What does, like, what are you at right now?
[00:25:47] Assi: Right now I’m just one citizen, only American citizen. So why did you give up
[00:25:53] Sophia: your Ethiopian
[00:25:54] Assi: citizenship?
I have. The Ethiopian won’t allow you to be a dual citizen. You choose. You have to be Ethiopian or other nation. Really? I thought you could be a dual citizen. I didn’t know that. Oh. I wasn’t aware of that. American actually allows me. Go ahead, be dual if they allow you. But Ethiopian, they don’t allow you to be dual citizen.
Oh, I thought
[00:26:15] Sophia: like you just forgot to like sign up or something. And then they like said, bye bye. They will
[00:26:19] Assi: give you some, they call it a yellow card. Yeah. So you can have a property in that country and you can use, you are Ethiopian born, so when you come to our country, when you are like visiting us, we allow you to use Ethiopian money instead of dollars.
For example, if you go to Ethiopia. They wouldn’t allow you to use Ethiopian money. You have to pay everything with dollars. And but that’s privilege for me is I got by getting the yellow card. That’s it that we give you not dual citizen. We’ll give you a yellow card.
[00:26:53] Sophia: So as we know, the United States passport is very strong.
How strong was the Ethiopian passport?
[00:27:03] Assi: Absolutely doesn’t give you anything. I mean, at all. You, wherever you go, you have the most hard time. When I was working in Bahrain, I, my job was travel because I work for Olympics committee and our Olympics committee is travel the so many countries and training and so and so.
So my Ethiopian passport, everybody gets get visa easily and mines was like. I have to be vetted, I have to be so many things, but through that even I traveled. I traveled. I made it. I made it Asia, United States, Europe, and Africa, except Latin America. So that’s why I said is even hard passport, I can be Ethiopian.
That was the reason I didn’t jump to be U. S. citizen until you are born and I married Jeff I said it’s good to be American.
[00:28:10] Sophia: So, is it difficult to balance having a yellow card and an American citizenship? Like, would you say you have to put in a lot of effort to keep the yellow card or not really?
[00:28:20] Assi: Uh, the fee is very high.
And we paid, uh, 500. If I’m not mistaken, two years or a year. So So that’s what it is to keep it. So just practically is getting money from us, even we don’t use it that much.
[00:28:43] Sophia: So hypothetically, if you lost, if you like, if they took away your yellow card, would you lose your property? Because we do have property in Ethiopia, like, would they just take it away?
Like what happens?
[00:28:52] Assi: If I lose, I, they will charge me for losing the yellow card and I will get all the money. Another yellow card, but I wouldn’t lose my property because of that.
[00:29:02] Sophia: Gotcha. So, you are officially an American citizen. You’ve been an American citizen for many years. You are not a green card holder anymore.
I’m still laughing about my comment from before. Um, so, do you feel more American or do you feel more foreign? That’s I feel,
[00:29:30] Assi: to be honest, on paper I’m American, and I love America, just because I want you to know how I am, but you always feel you are foreign. You, my accent is foreign, everywhere I go, where are you from?
That’s the question I get, and um, my passport is American but if I’m from Ethiopia, I don’t say that. I said. I’m from Ethiopia, and that is reminding you, you aren’t really foreign, but saying that, the love I have for this country is tremendous because everything what they have compared with my country is an amazing, but do I miss my country?
Yes, in so many ways.
[00:30:23] Sophia: So what do you miss the most about Ethiopia? I miss
[00:30:27] Assi: as, um, the family. Family means like the relative, the gathering, the culture. And you have to adjust that culture in this country is because this is the Western country and the cultural country is different. And in my country, everybody makes their business.
My situation, like if I say it right, have you watched the movie? My fat Greek wedding, my,
[00:30:57] Sophia: my big fat Greek wedding
[00:31:00] Assi: that is Ethiopia.
[00:31:01] Sophia: Everybody has to be in your business and your
[00:31:03] Assi: business and everybody’s like, you’re great and your marriage. And where school you go, and so that’s really, we get used to that, we grew up with that.
And when somebody die, they gather in your home for 40 days. And when somebody get married, in your house, it’s for 10 days. I mean, that hoo hoo ha ha big life is not here. Here is everybody’s, like, very Like individual. Yeah, that’s yeah, that’s the right word. Yeah individual and that is shocking for me before I thought is like Ignoring or ignorance, but now I understand why how that’s the way they like.
Yeah So that’s shocking for me
[00:31:53] Sophia: Would you say that? Because there’s a lot of Ethiopians in the DMV like almost Nearly all of her family’s in the DMV Would you say that we have more family in the DMV than Ethiopia? Uh, no. Okay, well either way, we still have a lot of our family in the DMV. And I mean a lot of our families in the DMV.
In Atlanta. Yeah, in Atlanta, and like, it’s just, we have a lot of family close to us. Yeah. Do you still feel like you’re away from Ethiopia? Like, does that fill the void in the slightest, or not really? Um,
[00:32:27] Assi: Um, it is almost that nowadays is the Ethiopian community is, if that’s your question, is really strong, very strong.
We have our restaurant, a lot of places. We have our church, a lot of places. And if you want, even you have your own doctor who speaks Amharic. And practically, you can’t make it living in Ethiopia while you’re out in America. But I choose not to.
[00:33:01] Sophia: But does that fill that void? Like, do you feel like that void has been filled for you, or are you just like, this isn’t the same, no matter how many Ethiopians are in America? This is not the same.
[00:33:10] Assi: Absolutely not the same at all. It’s such a wonderful feeling, the one in Ethiopia. When I think of it for a long time, it’s like a homesick, and when that’s missing in your life, just, you get up and like, cry and that much miss it.
And I like, if you ask most Ethiopian, that’s what they said. I cry when I miss it. So that much it is really.
[00:33:41] Sophia: My goodness. I know. Thank gosh. True. I was going to ask another question and it’s at the tip of my tongue. What was it? We were talking about utopia. Missing utopia. Void. God Almighty. I forgot it. Oh, I remember now.
Now I remember. Okay, we were talking about this a week ago. How somebody thought you weren’t from utopia. Yes. Can you talk about that story? Because, like, not only, like, you feel foreign in the U. S. But, like, did you know that? Talk to me about that experience when you said that they didn’t think you were Ethiopian.
[00:34:11] Assi: Where? In Ethiopia? Yeah, when
[00:34:13] Sophia: you went to visit Ethiopia. Yes. Because you just recently went last summer.
[00:34:17] Assi: I did. I went last summer. And, um, of course, you know, when you are going back home from Western, you dress up like this. Uh, can I say better than them is a polite word. I wanna make it a polite way.
[00:34:32] Sophia: Yeah.
[00:34:33] Assi: Okay. You have access to more a variety of clothes that they don’t, so, yes. So, and plus, like naturally, I guess my, the way my structure is, most people misunderstand me for Indian, and so including that and the way I speak is I try to just. Straightforward, try to talk Amharic, yeah? And they said, oh my god, you have accent.
I said, what do you mean I have accent? I’m speaking Amharic. They said, you can’t tell you are from outside. Did you grow up outside? I was like, it is sad. I mean, no matter where you go, You are a foreigner.
[00:35:20] Sophia: Because you were so young. I know. You left when you were so young, like 15.
[00:35:25] Assi: So, when you come in the United States is, I accept my, you know, the way who I am.
I’m a foreigner. There’s no doubt. But when I go back to Ethiopia, the name of foreigner, then I said, what makes me no land kind of person? Where is my country now? You know, for Ethiopian, people think I’m foreigner for them. Practically most foreigner you see migrate from their homeland. They don’t have any country.
They end up being North America. They end up being North Ethiopian. We are like floating in between. Mix sense with what
[00:36:07] Sophia: I’m saying? Yeah. Would you say that, because I understand that language evolves over time, especially considering that the younger generation of Ethiopians, now they’re growing up with social media.
They’re going to have more access to the outside world and everything. Especially when historically we’ve been behind on like every trend, like didn’t like the Titanic hit them like two years later. My gosh, like, would you say that the Like Ethiopians in America, like they speak exactly like you. And would you say that they go through a similar experience to you?
[00:36:41] Assi: Yes, because let me tell you, for example, since we left, like, like 15 years ago, who left Ethiopia, the money is changed. So you look like, like a really dumb person, like to figure out what’s the money, how you pay. And, you know, when you struggle, they watch you. What is what? What’s the payment? How you pay?
And they say, like, uh, she’s foreigner. Because even you don’t understand, you don’t understand the road. You ask people.
[00:37:14] Sophia: I
[00:37:14] Assi: mean, like, any Ethiopian knows where to go, where to come. And sometimes to go east, you stand with the west side and try to catch taxi or catch Then they laugh at you. You say, you’re supposed to stand there.
That makes you foreigner. You are not really. You know what I tried to say? Yeah, so you are stranger for the country and sadly as I said, you are always Always, if you are not born in this country, you’re always is foreigner for this country. Even you are American citizen and when you go back home You are foreigner because you miss out so
[00:37:52] Sophia: many things.
So question, another question that’s just popped in my head now. Would, how do you say that, would you say that there’s a differentiation between Ethiopians who are like born in Ethiopia, but left Ethiopia at like an older age versus like Ethiopian American kids? Like, do you think that they find it easy to tell the difference between you two?
Yes. Like me versus you, for example. Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Like what would you say is like the obvious
[00:38:19] Assi: differences? The obvious differences is for example, the joke. I mean like, um, as the joke is, who is not born in Ethiopia, they can’t get it. That’s like, you know what I tried to say? Mm-hmm . And the games, we have so many games we play and that is, they don’t that I try to teach you that game, if you notice.
Yeah. The , the Carta, and I played Carta Jax
[00:38:51] Sophia: and
[00:38:51] Assi: what’s the other one?
[00:38:53] Sophia: Only fingers. Only
[00:38:54] Assi: fingers. Three. So, those are really, and, like, our Taguar is different, so, I mean, yes, it is different. Very much.
[00:39:06] Sophia: Okay. My gosh. So, how often do you, would you say that you go back to Ethiopia?
[00:39:13] Assi: Uh, for the first time, I cannot go back to Ethiopia because of the government.
And the government, if they, if I go back, they will arrest me because I accused them, which is, they should be accused. And now I’m even more blacklisted. So I have to wait until that government overthrown or moved. So that government is over, like he died, I guess, and overthrown by other government. And something like that happened.
And then we were now. This government, we did not accuse him, so he welcome us.
[00:39:49] Sophia: So then you guys leveled up on oppression. Yes. So
[00:39:51] Assi: for the first time to answer your question is for, mm, thousand, you were,
[00:39:58] Sophia: I was five or six years old when we went.
[00:40:00] Assi: Okay. So that’s in five. So I said in 2011, no,
[00:40:06] Sophia: 2010 was when we went.
[00:40:08] Assi: Okay. After 10 years, I went. And I couldn’t even go. When my father passed away, the government was there. I can’t even go for his funeral. That is the hardest time of my life. Oh my
[00:40:21] Sophia: gosh.
[00:40:22] Assi: Yeah.
[00:40:23] Sophia: Was Mie in the U. S. at that point?
[00:40:25] Assi: Yeah, she can’t or soon. The same story. She cannot go. We cannot go to be in our father’s funeral.
How about Mamush? They were there. Okay, Mamush and Barakat, they could go. Yeah, and then me.
[00:40:42] Sophia: Demi didn’t leave Ethiopia, did he? He stayed in Ethiopia, though. Yeah,
[00:40:45] Assi: he said he would never leave
[00:40:47] Sophia: Ethiopia.
[00:40:48] Assi: He was in
[00:40:52] Sophia: He was in what?
[00:40:52] Assi: He, I mean, he’s not going to go to the National Service because his service is more, for them, important. He is graduate at that time from college and he has his career. Call a kind of computer institute to teach the kids so they don’t want them to go work, carry gun, because they want the 11 years old to
[00:41:15] Sophia: They need some sort of educator.
[00:41:17] Assi: Yeah, so he was fine.
[00:41:24] Sophia: Could you talk about the culture of, you know how there’s this joke on social media of Ethiopians they bring like 20 bags with them on their airlines. Could you explain that culture and why we all bring that many bags to Ethiopia every time we go back?
[00:41:37] Assi: Okay. When we go back to Ethiopia or when we come back from Ethiopia, which one do you want?
Both are very crazy. The
[00:41:44] Sophia: bags you go to in Ethiopia, don’t come back.
[00:41:47] Assi: I mean, we’ll come back, not different things. The bags, so where do you go from here is you have so many Cousin, neighbors who was in your life, who is like, and your teacher. I mean, you remember all people who helps you to be who you are.
Mm-hmm . And so you take all momentum stuff for them. I mean, I have someone to tell me, please, can you get me your cut? I mean, it’s big deal to have a New York t shirt or Washington D. C. t shirt or a mug or, you know. So, you take for, something for each relative and someone will ask you, like, five years old, can you give me soccer please, ball, and those things you fill up your bag and you take like 50 bucks you pay and then when you come back, it’s like the Ethiopian, we are sick, loving our food.
And we carry everything spices.
[00:42:52] Sophia: The Burberry.
[00:42:54] Assi: Clarified butter. You can clarify in America your butter. But we are obsessed with Ethiopian
[00:43:00] Sophia: butter.
[00:43:01] Assi: Valid. We bring our butter from there. We bring our authenticated food from there. So that filled up and such travel. We are known by airports as traveling with 10 bucks and 15 bucks.
Laughter.
[00:43:18] Sophia: Oh Lord, I have another question. I have one more question and then we’ll be done. I just need to remember my question. Whoops. See, I get so invested in what you’re saying that I forget what I’m saying. Sorry. Did I answer you more than I should? No, perfect. It’s just I get so invested in what you’re saying that I completely forget my next question.
What were we talking about? We were talking about, uh, how much Ethiopians I just love to take and
[00:43:41] Assi: bring so many stuffs. Oh my goodness.
[00:43:44] Sophia: Oh! I remember! So, my grandmother, uh, your mother, she just got naturalized as a U. S. citizen recently.
[00:43:51] Assi: Yes.
[00:43:52] Sophia: What would you say was the biggest difference between when you got naturalized versus her?
Like, did you say, like, would you say it was, like, exactly the same? Or would you say there was like a slight difference in anything? And it could be anything like the, um, specific amount of people from a country versus like the way, the way you pledged allegiance to the flag. I don’t know. Like, what would you, was there any differences or was it the same?
It was
[00:44:15] Assi: very much the same, but for me this time, you know, I start appreciating being American because of how my, in my country, the war in the past. prisoners and how much people can’t, the speech, freedom that, you know, the freedom of speaking they don’t have. Now, as I grew up in that, appreciate being American.
And when my mom, I pushed her, actually, I told her, mom, you will be like protected. And so when she become American, I was so happy for her. And, Just more than I was happy for me when I become American. Really, I, my was reason is you people, you, my kids and Jeff to be together. But my mom is, she needed when I’m in Ethiopia right now is like, really is not good for anyone, Ethiopian right now.
So now she’s protected. They cannot abuse her. If she go to Ethiopia, she’s American citizen. They don’t dare touching her unless she do crime.
[00:45:25] Sophia: So wait, okay, question. Okay. This is a random, like, question that kind of means nothing, but, like, what would you say was, like, the trend of people in your group that got naturalized in terms of, like, nationality versus IU’s group?
[00:45:39] Assi: What do you mean?
[00:45:40] Sophia: Like, what would you say, like, the country you saw the most when you were being naturalized in the room?
[00:45:44] Assi: Oh, when I was naturalized. That’s a good question. When I was naturalized, there is a lot of Latin Americans and white people. But this time my mom, actually, I was like shocked counting. Maybe I’m not in my own bubble, now I’m watching my mother, yeah? So, there is Australian guy who become naturalized citizen.
Interesting. For me it’s shocking. And there is a Norwegian guy. And there is a Finland guy. There is a German woman. And those diverse is beside me. So many Africans and so many Latin American from Peru, from Guatemala, those, uh, and why Australian want to be American? That was my question. Maybe he want to be like his kids and like I did with his wife.
Maybe he’s married American citizen, but that, that the diversity this time was a bunch of European was also become naturalized to American this time. And this. This year, actually. That happens this year.
[00:46:50] Sophia: Wow. Well, thank you for your time, Mama. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for all you do. Thank you for having me in the United States.
Thank you. Yeah, thank you for your
[00:47:00] Assi: time. No, thank you. Thank you, Sophia, for interviewing me. It’s such wonderful things, actually, to speak it. Aw. So.
[00:47:09] Sophia: Okay, well, bye bye.
Bye.
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