Interview with Jose Alvarez
Introduction
For this interview project, I decided to interview my father, Jose Alvarez, who was born in Torréon, Coahuila, Mexico in 1967, and immigrated to Chicago, Illinois, when he was almost three years old. In the interview, I asked how his experience as a young immigrant impacted him and his family, what it was like growing up in Chicago, and how he managed to assimilate. We also discussed what his worklife looked like, and how being an immigrant has impacted his personal life. We dived into identity and how his experience as a Mexican American has caused him to at times feel at odds with both worlds.
Migration and Early Life
While my dad was a toddler when he came to the U.S., he still has some memories about what it was like in the town he was born in. According to him, he remembers being “on a horse going to the market” and “running through the streets in only… a diaper.” When his family made the decision to migrate to Chicago for better opportunities, his Tío Pepe, who was already a U.S. citizen, simply drove my dad and his family across the border. When asked why my dad’s parents decided to move to Chicago, he said it was because they already had family there who saw that “there were a lot of job opportunities” there. Through this migrant network of sorts set up by my dad’s aunts and uncles, my grandparents were able to move their family to Chicago fairly easily.
While getting to Chicago was easy, my dad and his family found assimilating to American culture difficult. Due to his family being “very traditional Mexican[s],” they only spoke Spanish in their household, making it hard to learn English in school. However, he was able to rely on his older cousins growing up who were able to help him learn the language. While in school, however, he encountered “some racism,” which forced him to get “used to some of the name calling from the other kids.” There was a lot of stigma at the time surrounding immigration, and while not much has improved in today’s climate, my dad does say later on that most of the people he encounters today “are more respectful.”
When asked about his parents’ experiences migrating to the U.S., my dad says that “it was a major adjustment” for them, due to them leaving their parents and other family members behind in Mexico. Not only that, but they also had to get used to the different traditions and culture in the U.S. As a result, my grandparents had difficulty dealing with their homesickness. However, my dad says that after they “saw how much better they were doing over there” compared to how things were in Mexico, they grew to accept life in Chicago.
Career
At nineteen years old, my dad decided to join the Marine Corps “as a way out” of his life in Chicago. His decision to join the military as opposed to furthering his education was in part due to his parents believing in hard work instead of education. He was inspired by his Tío Pepe to join the military after he encouraged my dad to seek the opportunities allowed by the Marine Corps. Once he joined, he found freedom in being able to travel and explore the country for the first time, instead of just viewing it “from the window of a bus.” However, he also encountered a pushback in regards to him being an immigrant in the military. According to him, “it was kind of a stigma, where people would ask, why did you join the U.S. military, if you could join the Mexican army or something.” His feelings on the matter, however, depended more on the fact that he has lived in the U.S. for the majority of his life.
While he did encounter some difficulty in gaining acceptance as a Marine, he found comfort in meeting other Marines who were also migrants. When asked about his experience with these other Marines, he says “with them we had a connection… and the connection was just sharing stories of how, what it was like for them to come to the U.S. You know we always compared stories.” This sense of camaraderie my dad had with these other Marines was important to his experience in the military. Due to the similar experiences he shared with them, he was able to bond with them on a deeper level than compared to his relationships with other Marines he met. When asked if it made his experience in the Marine Corps easier, my dad replied “yes, it was easier. ‘Cause there was a lot of times where we felt alone. But then you would lean up on them as friends.” Even though my dad is no longer on active duty, he still to this day holds onto the friendships he made throughout his military career because of this very bond that he has shared with other migrants. My dad’s experience with these friends underlines the importance of community, and finding people who have led similar lives. With many immigrants who find themselves in environments where there are not that many of them, finding and befriending the few people who do understand what it is like to be an immigrant can be a pivotal in making much needed connections.
After retiring from the Marine Corps at 43, my dad made the decision to go into government work. When asked if him being an immigrant has affected his current job in any way, he replied “not really… I think we’ve come a long way since I was a kid.” Instead of experiencing outright prejudice, my dad describes his encounters with ignorance in the workplace, where he has learned to “educate them when they’re being insensitive.” However, it seems that he does not encounter such instances very often. Something else we discussed when talking about his experience as a government worker is what it is like for him to be one of the few higher level immigrant workers in the agency he works in. He acknowledges that while he is not the only immigrant worker in the building, he is one of the few federal workers. However, his experiences as an immigrant has caused him to empathize with the other immigrant workers, especially the janitors. When elaborating on this and comparing how other people may treat them, he says “they’re to me, human beings too, you know, struggling to make a living… I understand them, you know?”
Personal Life
Although he does not experience much prejudice or ignorance in the workplace, he does have to deal with it in his everyday life occasionally. He says “you do get these crazy looks. You can tell people want to ask” in regards to his immigrant status. However, because of my dad’s humor, he chooses to “sometimes mess with people” by “talking to them in Spanish” when they make assumptions about his life. Throughout his life, he has had to deal with people making assumptions about who he is and what language he speaks. When recounting his experience with certain retail workers, he says they are oftentimes “trying to get somebody that talks in Spanish to help me without even asking if I speak English. Or just assuming I don’t speak English.”
Naturalization Process
While my dad got his green card when he was “five, maybe six years old” due to his brother Michael being born in Chicago, he did not become a naturalized citizen until he was twenty-eight years old. According to him “after I joined the Marine Corps, I could have applied immediately for citizenship” but he held it off for years due to his “pride in being Mexican.” It was not until he had been in the military for eight years that he finally decided to naturalize, and that was only because the Marine Corps threatened to not let him re-enlist until he applied for citizenship. When discussing what the actual process was like, he acknowledges that while “for some people it took over a year,” for him, since he was on active duty, “they sped up the process… it was three or four months, maybe, before my application was approved.”
The American Dream
When discussing the American Dream, my dad reflects a lot on his experience growing up compared to where he is now. He says, “it is an opportunity for everybody, you know, you just have to reach out and grab it… The American Dream is to come here and make a living, providing a better opportunity for you and your kids.” While the concept is not something that his parents really thought about, he thinks that his dad saw it when he retired from the Marine Corps. Seeing everything he accomplished helped his dad see for perhaps the first time what he has built for his family, and what all of his hard work for his kids has culminated in.
Identity
In the last portion of the interview, I asked my dad about how he interprets his own identity as a Mexican American. When asked what being American means to him, he said something that I believe really resonates with what this country truly represents: “I know a lot of people say being an American, you go to different countries and you think of an American as a blonde, blue eyed guy, you know, and I don’t think that’s it. I think being an American is just, you know, being here… I mean, this is the Americas.” To him, joining the Marine Corps allowed him to truly feel like he was a part of this country. While people do not feel like he is American simply because he was born in a different country, he believes that “I’m more American than they are because of the fact that they never served. They never, you know, did anything for this country. I feel like I’ve done more than enough for this country. I have every right to call myself an American, even if I wasn’t a U.S. citizen.”
While he believes this all to be true about his status as an American, he will never forget his roots in Mexico because of something his grandmother said to him: “never forget your ancestry. Never forget where your ancestors come from.” Due to this conversation, my dad became proud of his identity as Mexican. As a result of this, and his experiences in the U.S., he has become prideful in his identity as someone from both worlds, as a Mexican American.
Methodology
Me and my dad recorded this interview in person in the basement of my parents’ house while my mom babysat my nephew. I used the voice recorder app in my laptop, with my iPhone’s voice memo as a backup. Directly before the interview, I showed my dad a list of some of the questions I would be asking to help him mentally prepare. While we were in the quietest room in the house, we did experience some difficulty with noise as my nephew played upstairs. To edit the interview and provide timestamps, I used Descriptor.
[00:00:00] Roque: Okay. Uh, I, uh, hello. I am Roque Alvarez and I’m here with my dad, Jose Alvarez, and I’m going to be interviewing him for the, uh, immigrant, uh, interview project. Uh, so getting started, where were you living in Mexico?
[00:00:20] Jose: I was living in Torréon, Coahuila, Mexico.
[00:00:24] Roque: And do you have any memories about Mexico from before you migrated?
[00:00:28] Jose: Uh, some, yes.
[00:00:32] Roque: What kind of things?
[00:00:33] Jose: Um, I remember, uh, as a little kid, uh, running through the streets in only, believe it or not, a diaper. Um, I remember some traumatic things that your grandmother surprised. And I remember, like, I remember my father getting on the train and me crying because he was leaving, and your grandmother telling me that he would be back. Um, I remember times when we were on a horse going to market. Uh, I remember one of my aunts giving me bicycle rides, uh, in a basket in the front seat. Um, just bits and pieces.
[00:01:25] Roque: How old were you when you came to the U. S.?
[00:01:28] Jose: The first time? Uh, I was probably almost three years old the first time.
[00:01:38] Roque: How did your family migrate ?
[00:01:42] Jose: Back then it was very different. We, one of my uncles, my Uncle Pepe, uh, lived on this side. Uh, he was a U. S. citizen. Uh, he simply drove his car across the border, picked up my mom and my aunts and some of my cousins, and just drove back across the border.
[00:02:07] Roque: Why did your family decide to come to the U. S.?
[00:02:10] Jose: For a better life. Um, my mom, uh, and my dad told me when they were young they used to hear about the opportunities in the U. S., and times were tough in Mexico and so they decided to migrate.
[00:02:26] Roque: Do you know why they decided to move to Chicago?
[00:02:30] Jose: At the time, there was a lot of job opportunities in Chicago. My dad, your abuelito, worked in a factory, and, uh, one of my aunts, uh, Tía Luz, already was in Chicago and told him about opportunities. And so that’s when I decided to migrate.
[00:02:53] Roque: And what was your experience like growing up, uh, in an immigrant family?
[00:02:59] Jose: Uh, in an immigrant family, my, uh, my family was very traditional Mexican, so we spoke nothing but Spanish at the house, uh, which made it a little difficult, uh, in school learning English. Um, what did help though was some of my cousins that were older, learned English really quick, and so talking to them. But it was a lot of, uh, some racism, you know, being an immigrant, uh, getting used to some of the name callings from the other kids.
[00:03:42] Roque: And what was your personal experience like, like going to school and stuff?
[00:03:47] Jose: It was, uh, a big adjustment because, uh, my family, like I said, we’re very traditional Mexicans. And so, they used to dress up, dress us up, in what, uh, my family was used to dressing, not American. Uh, we kids had to learn the hard way, uh, how to adjust to, trying to look like everybody else, I guess, and being, uh, brown skin, you know, you’re always picked on growing up. So it was a, you know, it was a big adjustment.
[00:04:30] Roque: And, um, so do you have any like specific stories or like memories about, um, growing up, like anything specific?
[00:04:44] Jose: I remember the struggles, uh, that we went through, um, with, uh, my mom, not knowing the language, my dad, uh, trying to make ends meet, working in the factory. Uh, and then, uh, the neighborhoods that we could afford to live in were not the best of neighborhoods. Uh, so we moved around a lot. Uh, mainly because, uh, me and Your Tía Lara were always together, getting into fights and stuff, and, you know, some of these neighborhoods were pretty bad. So your, your grandparents were always moving us around, trying to find a better place to live.
Uh, until we finally, your abuelito, finally had a few promotions and made more money and were able to move us into a better neighborhood.
[00:05:39] Roque: Do you, uh, do you know what it was like for your parents to like, uh, what, their adjustment was like living in Chicago?
[00:05:52] Jose: It was a major adjustment because both parents left their families or their, you know, their parents in Mexico. And even though some of my aunts and uncles followed, it was not the same. You know, the traditions are different, the culture is different. Uh, and not to mention their parents back home. Uh, especially on my mom’s side, she would, at times, she would, they would talk, they always asked her to go back home, so that made it a little difficult, you know, the homesickness for them, you know. But, um, after a while, when they saw how much better they were doing than over there, then they accepted, you know, that this was, Chicago was going to be a place to, for them.
[00:06:42] Roque: And, I know, I know when you were growing up, you lived in a small apartment with like your whole family.
[00:06:51] Jose: It was a one bedroom studio apartment. That was, uh, before, uh, my other siblings were born. I used to share a bed with, uh, with your aunt and Uncle Michael. And then when my other brothers were born, um, we had a pull out sofa bed. Uh, and so your Tía Lara and the younger kids slept on top, and me and your Uncle Michael slept underneath the bed on the floor, because there was no other place for us to sleep. But your, your grandparents always got the bedroom. Even though we moved around, you know, it was mostly one bedroom apartments where we lived and they always got the bedroom and the rest of us were in the living room.
[00:07:46] Roque: Do you think that, ’cause I know the rest of your siblings, uh, were born in the U.S. Do you think they like. Had it maybe easier than you did or?
[00:08:00] Jose: Not necessarily. Cause we were all, um, the struggles were the same, even though they were born here, um, the struggles were the same for them because I mean, you know, we were all one big family, uh, as far as opportunities, uh, I don’t know what, you know, there was nothing to take advantage of if they had any, cause they were young, if that makes sense.
[00:08:32] Roque: No yeah. Um, so I know you, um, when you were 19, you decided to go into the Marine Corps. Uh, what made you to decide to do that instead of like going to like college or trade school or anything?
[00:08:51] Jose: Well, one of the big things for us, um, the challenge growing up in the house that we did, my parents did not believe in education. They believed in hard work and your abuelita was one that, um, and I don’t want to blame her, but she kind of held us back as far as going to college, she would rather me go work in a factory. Um, I saw the Marine Corps as a way outta, a way out. Uh, I knew that joining the military would open doors. Um, so instead of applying for college, um, I joined the Marine Corps to get away from that environment, to get away from, uh, the situation that I was in. Uh, one of my uncles, Tío Pepe, he was the one that really guided me toward the military and the one that pushed me for the Marine Corps, uh, mainly because he served in the Army and he told me of the opportunities that the military presented. Um, especially since, he knew that if we had tried to go to college, uh, your abuelita’s push was for us to work, and so he felt that we would probably not, uh, finish school because of, you know, the, the way of thinking of your grandparents. So me leaving was, I think, the best thing for me. At that time.
[00:10:32] Roque: And what was your experience like as a, as a Marine?
[00:10:38] Jose: I loved it. Uh, it, it was, uh, definitely for me an eyeopener ’cause I hadn’t really traveled other than to the small town in Mexico, Torréon. Um, we would always go by grey- greyhound, so I would see the country from the window of a bus, at least part of the country. As a young age, I decided I wanted to travel and I knew that joining the military would give me that opportunity. Uh, and just, I mean, love being, being a Marine. I loved every minute of it.
[00:11:15] Roque: Uh, did being an immigrant, uh, affect your experience in any way?
[00:11:21] Jose: Somewhat, you know, um, when you’re an immigrant and you join the, the military, you do have this, I don’t know what it’s like now, but back then it was kind of a stigma, where people would ask, why, why did you join the U.S. Military, if you could go to the Mexican army or something. And, you know, having lived in this country for so long, I did have a lot of pride in being, I considered myself already, uh, an American citizen, even though I wasn’t at the time, you know, but having known this country more than I do Mexico, you know, I just, you know, there was this sense of loyalty to it. So it did separate me from the regular Americans, so to speak.
[00:12:19] Roque: So, uh, you said that you weren’t, uh, officially a citizen when you, uh, joined the Marine Corps, but you still had your, you had your green card?
[00:12:31] Jose: Yes, you cannot join the military unless you’re a naturalized resident. I mean, I’m sorry, you’re a resident.
[00:12:39] Roque: So, when did you get your green card?
[00:12:41] Jose: When did I get my green card? Uh, so, we got our, our, our green card when, uh, your Uncle Michael was born. Uh, he was born in Chicago, uh, so then, uh, because, uh, back then the laws were different for immigrants. Having a child here allowed the parents to apply for permanent residency. And so your, my parents took advantage of the fact that your Uncle Michael was born. So they immediately applied for permanent residency. So when I got my green card, I was probably about five, five, maybe six years old.
[00:13:27] Roque: So how long did you go like just, um, having a green card?
[00:13:34] Jose: How long did I have a green card for?
[00:13:35] Roque: Yeah.
[00:13:36] Jose: Um, so I got the green card when I was about five years old. Uh, after I joined the Marine Corps, um, I could have applied immediately for citizenship, but I hesitated mainly because of my grandmother. She gave me a lot of pride in being, uh, a Mexican. And so I didn’t give the green card up until I was in the Marine Corps for, oh my god, like maybe eight years. And it was really because the military, at the time anyway, uh, allowed you to only defend one flag. And so because I had been in the Marine Corps for so long, uh, they actually threatened to, uh, not let me re-enlist if I didn’t apply for citizenship.
[00:14:28] Roque: So is that why you, uh, decided to go through the naturalization process?
[00:14:32] Jose: Yeah, I mean, your mom had been bugging me for years before that, to go ahead and apply. But when I got the letter telling me I had to, that’s when I finally applied for naturalization.
[00:14:43] Roque: So how old were you then?
[00:14:45] Jose: Oh my god, I was, uh, cause I did. Um, you’re gonna make me do math now. What, 28? 27? 28?
[00:15:01] Roque: What was the process like?
[00:15:04] Jose: It was easy. Um, mainly because I was on, uh, an active duty, um, they, uh, sped up the process. I know for some people it took over a year. Once you applied, for me, I, um, it was three or four months, maybe, um, before my application was approved. Uh, and then especially because I had all those years in the Marine Corps. Uh, so it wasn’t, it wasn’t painful.
[00:15:37] Roque: And I know after you retired from the Marine Corps, uh, you got, um, jobs as, uh, you got jobs in the government. So, um, what was that like going from the Marine Corps.
[00:15:54] Jose: It was an adjustment period. Um, um, most of the people in the military, especially the Marine Corps, you get brainwashed. And so by that, I mean, you learn to talk a certain way. And for me, it was a big adjustment in that I couldn’t yell at people anymore. I had to watch what I said. You couldn’t just, uh, You had to be respectful. You had to be more mindful of people’s feelings, not like in the military. So yes, I got sent to sensitivity training twice.
[00:16:32] Roque: How does being an immigrant affect your job now, if it does at all?
[00:16:39] Jose: As an immigrant, um, not really. I mean, I think we’ve come a long way, from when I was a little kid. Uh, growing up in Chicago, there was a lot more racism. Um, I think people are now are more respectful and I guess now, because as an adult, I experienced it and, and so I know, um, basically how to talk back to people, you know, like educate them when they’re being insensitive and I don’t pick a fight anymore like I used to.
[00:17:18] Roque: Have you had any recent instances? Where you had to like, uh, talk to people?
[00:17:26] Jose: Yeah, on occasion. Um, you know, there are some people that lack, I’ll say, education. One of the first things that, where I work now, uh, people thought that Cinco de Mayo was uh, Mexican independence. And so, they had a Cinco de Mayo party and invited me. Uh, didn’t realize how offensive it was until I told them because they had piñatas, they had sombreros, and then people were walking around with fake mustaches. You know, and, and, uh, I had to educate them.
[00:18:13] Roque: Is that something you have to do a lot, or?
[00:18:16] Jose: Not as much. When I was younger, yes. Um, but I think people have come a long way, at least in my experience.
I mean, you do have the occasional knuckleheads that still think that Cinco de Mayo is, uh, Mexican Independence Day. Um, but I think, uh, the country is, is realizing it’s not.
[00:18:43] Roque: So, how does being an immigrant affect your everyday life outside of work?
[00:18:51] Jose: Um, every now and then you do get looks. Uh, especially with today’s atmosphere. Um, you do get these crazy looks. Um, you can tell people want to ask. Uh, so I sometimes mess with people too. Maybe that’s my fault. And then I’ll talk to them in Spanish, when I get these looks, you know, and then when they told me they don’t understand, I laugh and then repeat it in English, you know, especially people that, that I kind of know. Um, but yeah, I mean, there, there, there’s definitely this, uh, I don’t know, it gives me a sense of pride too, who I am and what I am being Mexican, of Mexican descent.
[00:19:40] Roque: Do you have any like specific instances that like come to mind when you think of, uh, people who, um, come to you and are like more ignorant?
[00:19:54] Jose: Well, yeah, I mean, when we lived down in North Carolina, um, and I was outside cutting the grass, I had people actually stop in front of the house asking me how much were the owners paying me to cut the grass, you know, or walk into a store and people just assume you don’t speak English and they try to talk to you in Spanish. Even here, uh, going to AutoZone, you know, uh, you have, uh, the workers there trying to get somebody that talks Spanish to help me without even asking if I speak English. Or just assuming I don’t speak English, you know.
[00:20:43] Roque: Um, going back to your time in the Marine Corps, I know you, um, you met a lot of other people, uh, who were Latino or, um, also, were immigrants. What, like, what was it like, kind of like, encountering other people who had similar experiences as you in that, um, in that space?
[00:21:07] Jose: Well, with them we had a connection, um, where I did meet a lot of good people, uh, in the Marine Corps that were immigrants. And the connection was just sharing stories of how, uh, what was it like for them to come to the U. S. You know, we always compared stories for, you know, since I was so young, um, the struggle was more for my parents than some of these people that came at a later age when they were teenagers. Um, I had the advantage that being so young, and my cousins that were older, um, I quickly picked up the language through them, uh, not like some of these guys that came over as teenagers and, you know, they still have a heavy accent, whereas I don’t anymore. Um, so with them it was just a connection of being immigrants and just sharing stories.
[00:22:06] Roque: Do you think you, um, felt closer to them than like other, uh, people you met in the Marine Corps just because of that, uh, connection?
[00:22:14] Jose: Yes. Um, that was just, uh, me, like I said, having a better grasp of the English language, I felt like I was, uh, protecting them. So yeah, just, um, I guess they, they looked up to me and the fact that I had been here for so long, and understood where they were coming from. And so, for a lot of these guys, I kind of became a big brother. Uh, because of the fact that I was, you know, stood up for them and everything, especially if they were lower rank. I always took them under my wing, uh, because I felt like I understood them better than other people would. You know, I understood their struggles coming here to make a better life, you know, for them and their families. Um, so there definitely was a connection with them.
[00:23:16] Roque: Do you think, um, kind of like befriending them and everything, uh, did that make your experience in the Marine Corps, uh, like easier?
[00:23:27] Jose: I think so. Um, it definitely helped with the leadership aspect of it. Because, you know, being, being, uh, somebody that understood them, uh, and they understood me, helped with getting things done, uh, it, it did make life easier for us, uh, moving around because Marine Corps’s so small, you, you, you got to know them and, and so we always had friends everywhere we went. So from that point, uh, looking at it, yes, it was easier. ‘Cause there was a lot of times where we felt alone. Uh, but then you would lean up on them as friends.
[00:24:12] Roque: Do you, uh, do you encounter many other, uh, immigrants in, like, in the government, like, as workers as well?
[00:24:21] Jose: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe not the same level as me, but, and what I mean by that is not necessarily, federal workers, but they work in the building. Uh, like I, I’ve learned to be nice to all people, regardless whether, you know, regardless of their background. Um, and so I have no problem talking to the cleaning people, for instance. The people, just because they go in there to clean the bathrooms, I don’t look down at them. Like other people would, you know, that would say, Oh, they’re just the janitors, you know, they’re, they’re to me, they’re human beings to, you know, struggling to make a living. And so I think being an immigrant and all the struggles that my family went through, uh, I understand them, you know? So yes, I have met other people from other countries, struggling as well to make a better living for themselves.
[00:25:27] Roque: Do you ever think about how, um, like, because you have a fairly, a relatively high job in the government, at least in the department you’re in, uh, do you ever think about how, um, far you’ve come, like, as, um, as being like, um, possibly like one of the few immigrants in like, as a government worker, or?
[00:25:57] Jose: Yeah, I think about it, and I thank, I thank my parents for, you know, bringing us here. Because it’s not just me, I mean, you know, your, my siblings, your aunts and uncles have also progressed as far as the situation that we used to be in, you know. We definitely have a better life here than we would have because we still have family down in Mexico. So, you look at them, and see what they’re doing and they’re not much better now than their parents were. Whereas us, we’ve definitely moved, moved up from when your grandparents first got here. I mean, we have homes, you know, we have property, we have, we have things that our parents never did. You know, and, and the jobs, thanks to them coming here, you know, uh, definitely better than what the family down in Mexico has. So yes, um, you know, I, I thank my parents for the opportunity that they gave us by coming here. You know, it’s something that I, now I hope you guys take advantage of.
[00:27:17] Roque: Do you have anything you want to talk about?
[00:27:22] Jose: Just that, uh, growing up in Chicago and seeing the struggles, uh, of my parents and my aunts and uncles, and then compare the struggles to myself and my siblings. It’s just the struggles are different, you know, they struggled to make ends meet and provide for their families. You know, and, and, and our struggles are very different now in that, you know, they didn’t have a car. For instance, you know, they, they got all around by public transportation. Our struggles are like, oh my God, I got to fix this car, now, you know, I got to buy tires for a car. Whereas my parents didn’t have that. You know, my mom was worried about cleaning the bathroom, and your mom worries about which bathroom is the one she’s going to clean. Um, but my parents fought, they had no choice but to sleep in the same bed, not when your parents fight. I have a choice of what bedroom to go to. The struggles are different. And it’s because of the opportunities that your grandparents presented, they provided us with, and we took advantage.
[00:29:14] Roque: So, do you, um, is the American dream something that you think about a lot or at least thought about a lot?
[00:29:27] Jose: When, um, the American dream to me was not something I thought about growing up. Uh, it wasn’t until, uh, I think I was a senior in high school, or maybe even a junior, uh, I forget, when I started thinking about what was next after high school. Um, that’s when I started thinking about, um, the American dream, you know, what is it? And it, it is, uh, an opportunity for everybody. You know, you just gotta learn to reach out and grab it. I thank God that I did take that chance in joining the military and got out of there. I think this is the American dream, you know, uh, being able to better yourself and provide better options for your, for your family. You know, we’re, we’re so much better now than when I was, when I was a little kid.
[00:30:43] Roque: Do you think, uh, do you think your, uh, parents, do you think they thought of the American Dream? Or do you think that they, um, had the American Dream?
[00:31:00] Jose: Um, yeah, they did. Uh, they knew that life over here would be better for them. And they were right. Uh, but I don’t think they realized what the American Dream was until we grew up. Not until they saw what myself and my siblings started achieving. You know, um, like I said, uh, our family down in Mexico, they’re kind of still in the same situation. Although they are a little better, but it’s not like here, you know, so yeah, I mean the American dream is to come here and make a living, providing a better opportunity for you and your kids. For your abuelito He didn’t, I don’t think he realized that until he came to my retirement ceremony and he saw, he saw what we had achieved.
[00:32:04] Roque: So, um, I know you talk a lot about, um, your family in, uh, in Mexico and you haven’t gone, you haven’t gone back in a while. Do you ever, uh, consider going back?
[00:32:21] Jose: Yeah, I, I have thought about going back, um, but life is different down there. Um, it is a struggle down there. Um, but what keeps me from going back is just the violence down there, and the sad thing is that because I grew up in the United States, they don’t look at me the same way down there. You know, they look at me as an American down there. You know, so, I mean, racism goes both ways, whereas I go down there and they call me a gringo, you know, even though I’m, I look, at least I think I look the same as them. Um, I do miss the family down there, but as far as going to visit, it’s difficult. It’s difficult because of the violence.
[00:33:25] Roque: Did you ever, like, uh, when you were a kid, did you ever think about going back and like, staying there?
[00:33:33] Jose: No. I mean, it was fun to visit, um, but as far as living, um, no, uh, cause even as a kid I could see the difference, uh, the quality of life and everything. Um, I loved going down there to visit my cousins, um, but I enjoyed my time in Chicago. Uh, cause you could see the opportunities and the differences. You’re talking about, um, going down there and there was no running water, there was no electricity. So, it, you know, it’s just different. You know, then you go back to Chicago where you do have running water and electricity. Um, I mean that was the main reason I guess I never thought about going back down there.
[00:34:40] Roque: So, you talked about how, um, even before you were um, officially a citizen, you considered yourself, um, an American, what does being American mean to you?
[00:34:55] Jose: It means a lot of different things, um, and I guess, you know, having grown up here, you know, uh, you know the culture and everything, you know, uh, you know the language, it’s, being an American is just, you know, uh, just being you just, uh, I mean, I don’t know, I don’t know an exact way to define that because, uh, I know a lot of people say being an American, uh, you go to different countries and you think of an American as a blonde, blue eyed guy, you know, and I don’t think that’s it. I think being an American is just, you know. Just being here, you know. I mean, this is the Americas. I know that’s a corny answer.
[00:35:58] Roque: Have you always felt that way? About, um, like about the meaning of American?
[00:36:04] Jose: Well, I mean, so I don’t know. It’s like when I was growing up, people used to try to tell me that I wasn’t an American, uh, only because I wasn’t white, you know. But now that I have served the military in the Marine Corps, uh, I, I tell some people, that are white and they have never served, I tell them I’m more American than they are because of the fact that they never served. They never, you know, did anything for this country. I feel like I’ve done more than enough for this country. I have every right to call myself an American, even if I wasn’t a U.S. Citizen.
[00:36:51] Roque: So does your time in the Marine Corps, have you always felt that it, um, like sort of gave you the status of American or?
[00:37:03] Jose: From the moment I joined, um, yeah. Um, looking back at the people that I knew in Chicago, especially all those little gang bangers. Uh, yeah, from the moment I joined and I graduated from boot camp. You do have this sense of pride, uh, in who you are. And when I went back home in uniform, I did get a lot of pride in seeing these same guys still doing the same thing, uh, which was nothing but cause hate and discontent. And so, you know, I, I, I think having served just gave me that extra pride, you know, in who I am and what I am. You know, and, and, you feel, you know. I respect all, all people that serve because there’s, no matter what anybody says it does, you cannot take that away from them.
[00:38:07] Roque: Um, so you talk about a lot about, um, how you have a lot of pride in like how far, um, you’ve come, uh, and like how thankful you are for the opportunities that your parents gave you to like get you where you are. Um, how do you feel about, um, like I guess coming from an immigrant family and like, um, I guess like building, building your life from the ground up, essentially. Um, how do you feel about where you’ve kind of like, the legacy, I guess, that you’ve left for your, like the future of the family?
[00:38:49] Jose: Oh, I mean, I don’t know about legacy, but I do. I am proud that I got out of the situation that I was in. Um, the, what myself and your mom were able to build for you guys. Um, you know, not all my cousins took advantage of the opportunities that they were presented. Uh, but yeah, I mean, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s, I’m very, very thankful, very thankful to God.
[00:39:26] Roque: Do you still consider your family to be like, I guess, like an immigrant family, or do you think a lot about how your kids are like, the children of immigrants?
[00:39:41] Jose: I think my kids are children of immigrants, like, I guess because I was so young, um, I look more as, I look more at my parents as being the actual immigrants. Even though they brought me over here as a baby, I, growing up, I never really considered myself an immigrant, um, despite the fact that, uh, like I, I honestly, I honestly did not know, growing up that I even had a green card, you know, um, I know now I learned as an adult, well not an adult, but I was almost an adult. I was in high school, believe it or not, when I found out that we had a green card. Um, and, but then again, like I said, I, I looked at my parents as being immigrants and not me. Um, my, now my family has grown. You know, my cousins got married, have kids of their own. And so I look at the older generation as being immigrants and not the offsprings, like you kids. I don’t think you kids are. You kids are of Mexican descent now. Um, so I don’t know, me growing up, it wasn’t until, like I said, I was older that I learned, you know, um, that I was actually, also, uh, I guess considered an immigrant, um, but yeah, like growing up I always considered myself an American, and only because my parents never told me nothing different.
[00:41:41] Roque: So you didn’t know that you were born in Mexico, or?
[00:41:44] Jose: No, um, so, yeah, I knew I was born in Mexico, um, but, like I said, when you’re young, you don’t think about those things, you don’t think about being, uh, I guess an immigrant. You know, when you’re young, like, like, ’cause I, I grew up here. Uh, I, uh, I never thought about it and it wasn’t until I was older that, you know, I realized, you know, that I too was an immigrant. Um, but it was just a weird feeling and just looking at my parents and seeing them as immigrants, but not myself, you know? Uh, and definitely. Then after I joined the Marine Corps, I didn’t consider myself an immigrant anymore. You know, it was, I don’t know, even though I learned I was an immigrant, um, once I joined the Marine Corps, I felt, uh, more American than anything, if that makes any sense.
[00:43:02] Roque: Do you have any, um, final thoughts or anything about, um, anything we’ve talked about or anything that comes to mind?
[00:43:12] Jose: Um, I, I, I just think my parents, mainly my grandmother on my dad’s side, uh, when I did start to question things like my status. Um, it’s not that I was disappointed to find out that I had a green card. Uh, like there are a lot of things that my parents didn’t tell me. Uh, like after my brother was born and we went to Mexico and we were down in Mexico for, uh, the whole summer, basically. Uh, I didn’t know that the reason why we were down there for so long was because after my parents applied for permanent residency, back then it was required that you live down in Mexico for a time before they give you permission. They give you a green card, basically. I didn’t know this. I just thought we were down there on an extended vacation. It wasn’t until I was older, maybe 16, 17, that your grandmother finally told me, like, Oh, here, you’re gonna need this, and that’s when I realized I had a green card. You know, it’s just little things that you don’t think about.
Um, uh, things that my friends never asked, you know? Uh, and probably because the neighborhoods that we lived in were a big melting pot. Uh, nobody ever asked what was our status. Nobody really asked. Uh, like I never asked none of my other friends, uh, whether they were legal or not. You know, it’s just, we were all just here, you know, and I know it’s kind of a weird way to say it, but it’s just the people that we were with back then in the neighborhoods we were in, maybe because they were all immigrants, nobody ever asked, what was your status? You know, nobody ever asked if you had a green card. Um, but yeah, that, I mean, maybe it was just, like I said, the neighborhoods that we were in.
And it wasn’t until I was 16, 17 that I realized, or I was told I had a green card. Um, and then your grandmother, uh, when I started questioning things, I mean, I’m sorry, my grandmother, uh, I, I don’t know, it wasn’t that I was angry or anything like that. I did take a lot of pride in being an American. But, my grandmother sat me down and basically told me to never forget my roots. Never forget your ancestry. Never forget where your ancestors come from, and that’s, and she gave me books to read, and that’s actually when I started becoming really proud of being Mexican, a Mexican American, or, you know. And maybe that was part of the reason why I delayed in becoming a naturalized citizen for so long, because of the fact that I did have this pride of, of being Mexican. Um, but at the same time, I, I was, I had already considered myself an American, you know, so I guess I was just a very proud Mexican American, you know?
[00:46:41] Roque: So what does being uh Mexican American mean to you? Like, what does it mean to, uh, like essentially come from both worlds?
[00:46:56] Jose: Um, I think what it means it’s, uh, and maybe that’s the true identity of an American, uh. It’s, you know, everybody in this country, except for the Native Americans, has come from somewhere else. Even if you’re 5th, 6th, 7th generation American, you know, because your great grandparents came across the ocean, uh, you, you still, you know, your ancestors came from somewhere else. And maybe that’s what it is, being an American. You know, we came from not that far, you know, just south of the border. Um, but I mean, there’s a lot of pride in it, you know. And being a Mexican American, it’s just, it’s an identity. You know, an identity I’ve grown to be proud of. You know, despite the looks I might get, despite what people might say, you know. And having served in the military gives me that extra pride. You know, that I can look at other people. You know, and despite what they may say or think, I can always say, well, I mean, what have you done for the country, you know?
[00:48:15] Roque: Um, I think, I think that’s all the questions
[00:48:18] Jose: Ok.
[00:48:19] Roque: I have. So, thank you for letting me, uh, interview you. Um, and, yeah, I guess that’s it.
[00:48:30] Jose: Okay, thank you.
Recent Comments