Interview with Catherine
Introduction
For the Immigrant Interview project, I interviewed my mother, Catherine, who immigrated to the United States (U.S.) in 1997. Throughout the project, I explored how she dealt with integration, assimilation, and how individuals in this new country came to accept her. I asked her about her childhood in Taiwan (also known as Formosa), her reasons for emigrating from Taiwan, people she knew who lived in the U.S. before she moved there, key similarities & differences between Taiwan & the U.S., and if she believed she achieved the ‘American Dream.’
Growing Up in Taiwan
Taiwan is a Southeast Asian island in the western Pacific Ocean between Japan and the Philippines. It is separated from mainland China by the Taiwan Strait, which ranges from one hundred and forty miles wide at its broadest point to eighty-one miles at its narrowest point. Taipei, the capital of Taiwan, is home to nearly 2.5 million people and remains one of the world’s most densely populated urban areas. My mother grew up in Banqiao, a town near Taipei City in Northern Taiwan; “so basically I am a city girl,” my mom said expressively while she stated where she grew up.
In the interview, she told me a story about how her father (my grandfather) joined the army (supporting Chiang Kai Shek) and fled to Taiwan, called the Republic of China (R.O.C.), at the age of fourteen. My mother added, “So many years later, China is [still] a very strong country and ambitious country in the world, and Taiwan, [is] just a very small island to them. China has a goal that one day they will be able to [re]unite [with] Taiwan. But Taiwan still stand[s] strong and [will] fight for democracy.”
A few minutes into our conversation, she explained how the classrooms operated when she was in elementary school and what students had to learn. For example, she told me how she had a position in the class to make sure students behaved, as well as the other positions like class captain and co-captain whose roles were to keep the classroom and sixty students, the average class size, in order. Students bowed to the teacher before class started and were required to have uniforms and girls had to have their hair in a bob cut, and the length had to fall just below their ears.
As my mother continued describing her school years, she reflected on the progression of her English education and what she learned while in school. While in school, she had to study the Chinese language, literature, calligraphy, and ancient poetry. She was not taught English until she was in middle school (about sixth or seventh grade) – learning the ABCs and how to write them as well as grammar and forming grammatically correct sentences. Once she got into high school, the English classes became more intensive, i.e., no Chinese could be spoken in the English classroom and everything was in English in there, including the textbook. She told me, “In other words, there will be no Chinese at all. Everybody will have to speak English. Even though you don’t know how to say it, you, it will force you to say it.” My mother completed her undergraduate degree in journalism in Taiwan.
Coming to America
Soon after getting her undergraduate degree, she worked for the local newspaper as a journalist, leading her wanting to pursue a master’s degree in public relations to have a better career. While attending Ball State University as an international student, she described how the environment and culture opened her eyes. “[It was] quite [the] adjustment for me, but during my time there, I met my husband,” she laughed as she recalled her time as an international student.” “[It] was a big change for me that overseas I was able to find a native English speaker [to help] guide me through a lot of difficult times and especially living [on] campus. It was quite [an] experience for me.”
Once my mother completed her master’s degree, she had to leave America because she was on a student visa, leaving the love of her life behind. Not soon after, my father graduated, and he flew back to Taiwan and visited her; he moved in with her in 1993. They got married a year later and lived in Taiwan until November 1997, when they moved back to the States. Returning to the U.S. was a different experience for my mother, as she came back this time as a U.S. citizen. My mother’s story highlights the resilience required of international students navigating a foreign country and its culture alone. Her determination to succeed highlights the universal challenges immigrants face in balancing cultural integration with preserving their identity. Hearing her story, I was able to put myself in her shoes, putting in plain sight something I already know, she is a courageous woman.
Becoming an American
My father returned to the U.S. first so that he could secure a job and find a place to live before my mother moved to the U.S. My parents ultimately decided to move to the Washington D.C. metropolitan area because my mother had a couple of friends from Taiwan who lived in Northern Virginia as well and the schooling system was outstanding. In the interview, she mentioned, “I believe that this area is full of job opportunities for immigrants and more acceptable to foreign cultures. In addition, there are a lot of immigrants [that] live in this area, [meaning t]here are so many different grocery stores that I was able to shop for Chinese groceries.” This led me to think about the Theories of Migration, the idea that individuals often move to places where there is a sense of community and connections to others with similar backgrounds they know. My mother wanted to move to Northern Virginia because she had friends who lived there, the large Asian community, and the limitless opportunities nearby, Washington D.C.
I asked my mother what it was like coming back to the U.S. now as a permanent resident rather than a student visa holder. She shared her thoughts that it was “quite different” than what it was like as a student. She stated “The language and cultural differences actually play a bigger role in shaping my immigrant life here. Since I didn’t [grow] up here, I didn’t really know much about American history, even TV sitcoms, customs, or religions such as Christianity.” As time went on, she was able to grasp understanding but there are still times when language and cultural differences play a role in not understanding jokes in conversations. “Sometimes, I don’t fully understand the jokes they are talking about, but generally speaking, most people here are pretty friendly and welcoming me to join this, world-famous melting pot.”
When my mother was discussing her experience with cultural differences, I could not help but think about the overarching challenges immigrants have when adapting to American life, such as the language barrier and remembering one’s cultural identity. As my mother stated above, she does have those times when she does not understand jokes or common American phrases, but that does not stop her from being the life of the party. To touch on the second point, my mother will never forget her Taiwanese cultural identity; we live in an area where Chinese and Taiwanese groceries, food, and drinks are all available. We call her mother (my grandmother) almost every week and visit Taiwan as much as we possibly can. My mother chose to live in an area where all she misses is readily available.
During the interview, my mother shared what she observed over the past twenty-seven years she has been in the U.S., “one thing I would like to point out is that people here are very patriotic to the country, to [the] United States. Furthermore, she stated, “there are so many patriots in this country. It makes me, an immigrant coming from a foreign country, really love this country and how the country is made of and to respect this country. Especially after 9/11, that was such a world-changing event.” She explained how she noticed that many Americans wanted to help rebuild the country both physically and financially; she even had an eighty-year-old friend who decided to go to New York City to help. My mother shared her story on how on September 11th, it was the first time she heard the song “God Bless the USA” by Lee Greenwood; “I was so touched, and I was literally in tears. And even now, I still feel chills every time I hear this song.”
Hearing my mother’s reflection on 9/11 and her observing that American citizens have such patriotism for their country, I think it helped her understand what this country was rooted on – life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. While asking my mother questions about what her experience was on becoming an American citizen, I could see the gears turning in her head. I do not think many have asked her her story of how she came to the U.S. and how she was still able to get a taste of home even though it is thousands of miles away. Finding comfort in an unfamiliar environment is challenging, but I am glad she found it and still recalls the emotions she experienced twenty years ago.
Conclusion
Throughout the interview, I could tell my mother had not thought of the answers she had in a while. As I stated earlier, I do not think anyone had asked her these questions in a while or even before, so she finally got to speak her truth and story. Though her story may not have been heroic, it is nonetheless important. She came to the U.S. with just two suitcases, little money, and an American husband. “Sometimes I have to say that I’m also proud of myself because I represent the hardworking immigrant. [It] doesn’t matter what your background is and doesn’t matter what barrier you have to overcome; you eventually achieve your goal and make your dream[s] come true and have a happy life here. I think that’s what [the] American Dream is about.”
Hearing my mother talk about achieving the American Dream made my heart full. To her, the American Dream was not something unattainable, but something she could reach with hard work and determination. While many immigrants achieve the American Dream, the important thing to account for is the journey – that is where one can see the resilience and perseverance each immigrant must have to attain the dream. My mother is one of those remarkable individuals who achieved the American Dream. She is a hardworking, strong-willed woman, who over the past thirty years, has navigated the challenges of integration into American society and assimilation into a new culture while keeping hold of her cultural roots with grace. Reflecting on where she started to where she is now, I am extremely proud of her and honored to be her daughter.
Charlotte: My name is Charlotte Rhodes, and I’m going to be interviewing my mom. Please state your name and where you’re from.
Catherine: My name is Ing Ling Rhodes. I also go by Catherine. I’m from Taiwan, which is an island in Southeast Asia between Japan and Philippines, and also very close to China, and they are separated by Taiwan Strait.
Charlotte: Where in Taiwan did you grow up?
Catherine: I grew up in a small town called Banqiao, which is very close to Taipei City. Um, you probably, uh, aware that Taipei is the capital of Taiwan, um, which is located on the northern side of Taiwan. Um, there are almost 2. 5 million people live there, so it’s quite crowded. Um, Taipei is, uh, considered one of the world’s world’s, most densely populated urban areas.
So basically I am a city girl, um, and you know, even as, you know, even the schools I went to, they are all pretty much have a big class size. Um, usually you can find 60 students in one class.
Charlotte: So hearing that, um, in U. S. schools, there’s usually between 20 and 30 students per class. Um, so you said there’s 60 students in each class. How did the teacher like teach during the class?
Catherine: Well, since the class size is way too big to be controlled by a teacher during lessons, um, usually they have to elect many different student positions to help out, uh, teachers. Um, usually they will have a so called class captain and also class co captain and besides captain and co captain, they also have a co who, uh, serve as a discipline chief and also zongwu gu zhang, who is in charge of general affairs, such as assigning students on duties, uh, for that day.
And they also have a different position who is in charge of the decoration of the classroom. Um, sometimes, uh, they have arts or speech contest among classes. Um, students pretty much are very independent and help out, uh, teachers, um, especially when teacher, you know, is busy between classes, um, the, the, these, uh, different positions, um, students will try to control this classroom and make sure it’s in order, um, and follow the class rules.
Charlotte: What was your experience while in school? For example, which student positions were you elected as, or like, what did you learn, or what were the subjects you had to learn?
Catherine: Well, um, in Taiwan, the, the language in Taiwan is, The official language in Taiwan is Mandarin Chinese, um, but people also speak Taiwanese as a secondary language.
Um, and Mandarin Chinese actually is top three most difficult languages in the world. So to study Chinese, uh, language, uh, literature, calligraphy, uh, even the ancient poetry. This is all make students, uh, study very hard and make sure we can pass all kind of exams. Um, and when I was in school, I remember I was in a position as a fong ji guzhang who, uh, has to, um, discipline the students.
In other words, I will make sure, um, the stu uh, the class is always in in order and if a teacher’s talking and no. Nobody else can be talk, can be talking at the same time and, you know, make sure, uh, all the students, uh, wear uniform and, you know, we, uh, always, uh, bow to the teachers when, when a class starts.
So it’s, uh, it’s, um, pretty, uh, competitive, uh, environment in terms of studying in, in Taiwan.
Charlotte: So I heard you talk about learning, um, well, the, the language is, uh, Mandarin Chinese, and those, um, There’s also Taiwanese, but what about English? Did you have to learn english in school?
Catherine: Um, yes. Uh, when I grew up in Taiwan during that time, uh, we don’t start to teach English until you, you are in middle school. So when I, When I was, I believe, uh, 7th grade, and that’s the time you start to learn ABC, how to write ABC, and how to, um, you know, learn, uh, grammar, and then put, uh, you know, sentence together, and so during middle school, that’s how kids start to be introduced to, uh, to English, and then go to high school, that would be the time, be more, um, Intensive learning and some of the English teacher, they will require students to speak English during the class.
In other words, there will be no Chinese at all. Everybody will have to speak English. Even though you don’t know how to say it, you, it will force you to say it. And then, you know, of course, all the, uh, textbook, it’s all in English. And that’s how. the environment was. And of course, now, modern day, now, um, a lot of kids start to learn English when they were younger. So probably, uh, you know, fourth grade or fifth grade, they already start to learn English. But that’s how I started learning English when I was in middle school.
Charlotte: So fast forward to the 90s, um, what made you want to leave Taiwan? And why did you immigrate to the United States?
Catherine: After I graduated from college in Taiwan, um, I, my major is journalism, so I was able to work for a local newspaper and, you know, as a journalist and I, I interview many, um, um, um, successful business people in Taiwan. And then after three years, I decided to, um, come to United States to study, um, in public relations. Um, so I can have a better career, um, connecting Journalism and public relations together, that’s why I decided to go to the United States to pursue my master’s degree in public relations.
Charlotte: Where did you study for graduate school?
Catherine: Um, I got accepted by Ball State University, which is located in Muncie, Indiana. And they have a very good program in public relations. Um, and that’s, that’s where I, I went, uh, and complete my, uh, graduate school in Indiana.
Charlotte: How was your time there?
Catherine: Um, it was quite a challenge because, um, you know, it’s totally different, um, environment, different country, of course, uh, different, uh, uh, culture. And even the weather is totally different. Indiana is quite, um, cold in the, in the winter time, uh, but in Taiwan is a tropical, uh, environment. So it is, uh, quite adjustment for me. And, but during my time there, I met my husband and, you know, that was, uh, that was a big change for me that overseas I was able to find, um, a native English speaker and help me, uh, guide me, uh, through a lot of difficult times and, um, especially living in campus, it was, uh, quite experience for me.
Charlotte: So once you got your master’s degree, did you go back to Taiwan or did you stay in the U. S.?
Catherine: Well, my goal at that time was trying to get my, um, master’s degree so then I would be able to go back to Taiwan to pursue my career. So, I was able to finish my degree, uh, within one and a half year. And then I got a job. I graduated first and went back to Taiwan to work and my husband, well at that time was my boyfriend, he graduated afterwards and then after he graduated he traveled to Taiwan and then we decided to live there together, um, for almost four years. And during that time, we got married in Taiwan, and, and he start to, uh, get some, um, um, opportunity to be able to work there, to immerse himself into, uh, Chinese culture, and, and also, you know, live with my parents, and to, to, um, spend more time with my family, um, but however, you know, we decide, uh, maybe it’s a time for, for both of us to go to a United States.
After all, United States, uh, have more opportunity, uh, than in Taiwan. Um, so after four years in Taiwan, uh, November, I believe in November, I still remember when I first came to United States, that was, um, after we got married, that was Thanksgiving time. And that was November, uh, the end of November, uh, uh, in 1997. So it’s almost, it’s, it’s 27 years now since I immigrated to, to United States. Um, my husband, uh, went back to United States first, um, because he wants to be able to, uh, find a place, uh, um, and also find a job before I joined him. So he went back first, he was able to, uh, find a job and also, uh, I rented a small apartment, um, so that’s why I left Taiwan. I quit my job and what I only have, what I have was just, uh, I brought my two suitcases. Uh, flew over to, to, uh, Virginia, and that’s where we started our, uh, life as a new chapter.
Charlotte: Since you had been in the United States as a graduate student, um, and now you’re married and you moved back, what was your, I guess, first impression as a permanent resident?
Catherine: Yeah, that was, uh, quite different even though I, I was in the United States. Um, but you know, as a student, what you, what you try to do is just to study and you know, and so you will be able to graduate. Uh, but, uh, when you become a permanent residence, which is the data and I already have a green card. Um, so it’s quite different, and we are talking about over 27 years ago at that time, and you know, an Asian immigrant in this western country, it was quite an adjustment for me.
Um, the language and cultural differences actually play a bigger role in shaping my immigration, uh, immigrant life here. Um, since I didn’t grew up here, I didn’t really know much about American history, even American TV sitcoms, American customs, uh, religions, such as, uh, uh, Christianity, or even, uh, American pop music or artists. Um, and because of that, you know, sometimes I couldn’t really have a conversation with, uh, friends or colleagues. And sometimes, uh, I don’t fully understand the jokes they are talking about. Um, but generally speaking, you know, most people here are pretty well, uh, pretty friendly and welcoming me to join this, uh, world famous melting pot. Um, so, yeah. It was quite an experience for me, but, um, I, I think people are generally very generous and, and open heart to, uh, newcomers to this country.
Charlotte: When you were trying to immerse yourself into this new life, um, like the American culture and American customs, what caught your eye?
Catherine: One thing I would like to point out is that People here are very patriotic to the country, to United States. Um, there are so many patriots in this country. Um, and, especially my husband, he is one of them. And, It makes me, you know, as an immigrant coming from a foreign country and, and really love this country and how the country is made of and to respect this country. Um, especially after 9 /11, that was such a, a world changing event.
And when I, when I saw the image of the Twin Towers collapse, um, and people actually, um, there are many, many Americans, uh, wanted to help. Um, I have a friend that 80 years old and he decided he want to go to, uh, New York City to help them to move all those, uh, debris, uh, you know, coming from the Twin Towers, uh, uh, Yeah, because at that time it was just such a disaster and they really need a lot of people to be able to help. And there are so many people try to contribute, uh, either financially or other way and, you know, to unite the country. So that was such a, a life changing event. Um, and that was the first time during that time, during that, uh, September 11th. Um, I, that was my first time I heard the song, uh, God bless the USA. Uh, that’s the song by Lee Greenwood. Uh, that was my first time to hear that song and I was so touched and I was literally in tears. And even now,. I still feel chills every time I hear this song.
Charlotte: So you said you had an 80 year old friend that would, um, that he wanted to go to New York and help move the debris. Um, so a little segue, uh, did you know anyone when you first immigrated here?
Catherine: Um, yes, I, I did. Um, I have a couple of friends from Taiwan, uh, who live in, uh, the Northern part of Virginia. Virginia. Um, which is a Fairfax County, and that’s why I ultimately decide to, uh, to move over there and, you know, basically settle down, um, in, in Fairfax, and it’s my new home in, in United States.
Um, but there are a lot of reasons, not just because the friends, but also I, I understand and, uh, Virginia, you know, especially Fairfax County, this area, um, this. The, the schooling, it was quite, um, quite, uh, uh, outstanding and also it’s, uh, very close to Washington, D. C. metropolitan area, um. With an immigrant background, I believe that this area is full of job opportunities for immigrants and more acceptable to foreign cultures. Um, in addition, you know, because, uh, there are a lot of, uh, Immigrants live in this area. There are so many different, uh, grocery stores that I was able to shop for, for Chinese grocery, uh, in particular, um, that they have a fresh, uh, fruit and vegetable and also snacks. Um, so when I get homesick, I, I can have some, uh, comfort food and, you know, bring me some memories. Okay,
Charlotte: So snacks, um, and like comfort food, what kind of snacks do you buy or what comfort food do you like to make when you’re feeling homesick?
Catherine: Well, um, Chinese food is actually quite famous. I know a lot of people love Chinese food, but a lot of Chinese restaurant here is more localized, more Americanized, so I’m not really the biggest The food that I usually will eat in my home country, so I have to, you know, get ingredients and try to cook the way my mom used to cook for me and, you know, all the stir fry, basically a lot of vegetable based, um, stir fry and I, Also, I would like to point out that a lot of people may not know that, you know, the popular drink called a boba drink actually came from Taiwan.
It was originated from Taiwan. And, you know, that was a popular drink since when I was a little, that’s why I will drink. And so they are, I’m so glad that, you know, um, they are so many, um, different chain stores that sell or make boba drink from Taiwan. So I was able to taste, uh, um, the childhood memory of, uh, boba tea. And, and that was something that I would like to drink and taste it, you know, when, when, whenever I have a chance.
Charlotte: You talked about, um, Chinese culture in the United States and including food. So I was wondering, um, what were the key differences in culture um, in Chinese culture in Taiwan versus the U. S.?
Catherine: Well, um, there are many cultural differences between Taiwan and U. S. and, you know, eastern versus western. Um, Taiwan particularly is inherited in Chinese culture. So, people probably know the famous Chinese thinker and social philosopher, uh, Confucius. Confucius, uh, influenced Chinese society for centuries. So there are a lot of, um, um, the Chinese, um, cultural traits actually influenced by Confucius. For, for example, Children should always obey, uh, their parents and be respectful to their parents, and also people should always respect the elderly, and another thing is about, uh, their teachers. Chinese has one saying, uh, which you translate into English will be “a teacher for a day is a father for a lifetime.”
So that’s how students respect teachers. And, and that’s also Emphasize that school work and academic performance are the number one priority for Chinese family. They want their kids, uh, you know, well educated and well disciplined. And that is why most Asian students are outstanding academically. And, but, you know, because too much focus on study, and sometimes they do not have time to participate in other, um, activity other than study, such as sports, and that’s something that we can see American, uh, students or, or, or younger generation, uh, much stronger in, in that, in that, um, um, in our area.
Another aspect I would like to point out, um, is the differences is that United States is by far a law abiding country. Even though Taiwan is also a democratic country, um, you know, Taiwan has its own constitution, its laws and orders, um, but United States It’s, um, it’s a country that really, uh, from, from the government all the way to, uh, private sectors, uh, there are laws and orders, uh, people always follow.
Um, I can use three elements to elaborate a little bit on these differences. Um, number one is law, and two, number two is principle, number three is compassion. Based on my experience here, and generally speaking, um, that is the order for the United States, uh, you know, generally speaking, to, to, uh, to prove the social justice, so basically law, principle and compassion. But if we are using the same three elements and to elaborate, elaborate more on Taiwan side, the order will be opposite. In Taiwan will be compassion, principle, So even though there is a law there, but you know, the compassion and principle actually sometimes, um, will outweigh the legal aspect. So, and that would be something a little bit different. Um, and that just based on my, uh, you know, experience to live here for almost 30 years.
Charlotte: So I asked you about key differences between Taiwan and the United States. Are there any similarities that you notice?
Catherine: Yes, of course. Both Taiwan and the United States, they all follow the democracy. It’s their country’s foundation. You know, we all believe that we, the people, and government, Is working for the people and, but Taiwan was not like that before because, um, Taiwan was, um, again, a small island and part of a China and we all know China actually is a communist country, so they don’t have a democracy over there. And that was the reason Taiwan can be independent from China was, um, was the, um, was as a result of the Civil War, which happened in 1949.
Um, and this Civil War actually separated Taiwan from China. Um, my father, um, my late father, um, he actually, um, was from China. He was in China and joined, um, the army and fought for the civil war. And when he was, uh, only 14, I believe, um, he joined the army and he was able to, um, actually flee from China to Taiwan. Um, during the leader at that time was, uh, Chiang Kai shek. Um, Mr. Chiang, he, um, was able to lead a different, uh, troop and flee over to, to Taiwan. And that’s how he and his, um, um, military force, um, was able to stay in Taiwan and establish a government. At that time they called, um, um, ROC, Republic of China. And that is the official name for Taiwan. Even though, um, so many years later, China is now, uh, a very strong country and very ambitious country in the world. And Taiwan, just a very small island to them. And China has, um, a goal that one day they will be able to unite Taiwan. But, you know, Taiwan is still stand, um, strong and fight for the democracy. And again, Taiwan also believe with the people. So I think this is something that Taiwan and the United States.
Charlotte: Wow, that was a really moving, um, story and part of your, well, I guess it is part of your life because it was your dad, um, and I think it really shows that there are similarities and differences between Taiwan and the U. S. So continuing on, so after almost 30 years of being in the U. S., um, what have you seen change in terms of how you, like, felt back then compared to now? Or just, like, have you seen any changes from the past almost 30 years?
Catherine: Um, as an immigrant, um, I believe the majority of immigrants in this country are all hardworking people and very, uh, diligent, um, and because, uh, we do have a certain, uh, disadvantage as a, as a foreigner, you know, because the language barrier, cultural barrier, We do have to overcome, uh, eventually. And so, you know, I, I’ve been working very hard, um, in, in my, uh, capacity to work for a US government. Um, for all these years, I have learned a lot and I have, I have, um, met so many, uh, nice people and good neighbors, uh, good, uh, uh, church goers. Um, and you know, my, my daughter, you have a very good, um, um, learning environment and teachers are nice.
So I think overall, um, I really enjoy living here is a part of, um, um, the, the melting pot. As an immigrant, as an American, um, I really love this country and, um, I enjoy the people I met, I enjoy the friendship I have, um, and we are still the number one country in the world and that’s why still so many people, uh, to, to fight for this country and would like to come to this country to fulfill the American dream.
Charlotte: You mentioned the American Dream. Um, and as my final question, do you believe you have achieved the American dream?
Catherine: I think the answer is yes. Um, looking back, I was a young, uh, woman that came from a small island that a lot of people never heard about what is Taiwan. Where Taiwan is, um, from such a small country, small island, and came to, and then come to this, came to this country with two suitcases with me, without enough money, you know, almost uh, 30 years ago, but now I have a job that I love, and I work for U. S. government, and I have, uh, a nice house, uh, my, my dream home. And I have a, uh, wonderful husband and, and daughter. And I think this is a part of American dream people would like to have. Um, and Sometimes, uh, I, I, I have to say that I’m also proud of myself, uh, because I representing, uh, the hardworking immigrant and, you know, doesn’t matter what your background is and doesn’t matter what barrier you have to overcome, but you eventually achieve your goal and you make your dream come true and have a happy life here. I think that’s, uh, that’s what American Dream is about.
Charlotte: Thank you for sharing your experience with me. I found it very insightful and I’m really glad I chose to interview you.
Catherine: You are very welcome. Thank you.
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