Interview With Michael Azab
Introduction: I chose one of my father’s pharmacists for my interview. His name is Michael Azab, and he immigrated to the United States from Egypt when he was 22 years old. Through this interview, I learned about Mike’s life before migrating and the cultural, educational, and language challenges he faced upon arriving in America. My interview took place in the Farmville Virginia Walmart, in an office of the Vision Center. With my dad’s help, I was able to set up for the interview and get it done before the end of my break.
Summary: Mike is from Asyut, Egypt which is six hours from the capital Cairo. Mike was born in 1980, and his family had been in the area for generations, he said about a hundred years. He attended Elementary School, High school, and Pharmacy School in Egypt. He migrated to the United States in 2002 when he was 22 years old and he came all by himself to Queens, New York City, and lived with a woman and her husband. His being part of the Christian minority in a city full of Muslims ultimately motivated his move. When adjusting to life in the United States it came with challenges such as language barriers, cultural shocks, and financial struggles. After living in New York City for about two years, having many jobs, and working double shifts he moved to Richmond and got relicensed as a pharmacist at VCU. Now he embraces his new environment with his three kids and wife, he maintains his Egyptian traditions through his family values and his active involvement in his church. To me, his story emphasizes the universal challenges of migration and the importance of cultural understanding through empathy and acceptance.
Migration: Michael Azab’s experience of migration is like many others it included a variety, of social, logistical, and emotional factors shaped by push and pull dynamics. Mike’s decision to leave Egypt was mainly due to systematic discrimination that came along with being the Christian minority, limited career opportunities, and economic differences due to the devalued currency. These are some examples of push factors that made staying in Egypt a struggle for Mike who had goals of building a career in pharmacy. Mike had visited the United States in 2000 as a visitor and knew then it was his ideal place, because of the reputation for professional freedom, better economic standards, and overall opportunity. These are considered pull factors in Mike’s case and they outweighed the challenge of him having to start all over in a new place on his own. When he initially came here to visit it was on a B1 tourist Visa, which allows migrants “to participate in scientific, educational, professional, or business conventions, conferences, or seminars, to negotiate contracts, to consult with business associates” according to the US Embassy. He was able to acquire this because he showed financial support and reasons for returning to Egypt which is a requirement of the U.S immigration law. Mike had to finance his migration on his own when he first moved, he was working as many shifts as possible with many different jobs and, after figuring out the legal system he was able to change his status to a work visa and get a social security number and a driver’s license. Social ties played a combined role in Mike’s experience. He of course faced the emotions of leaving his family behind in Egypt, but he built some temporary connections in New York, living with a couple to manage expenses. Due to Mike’s determination, he was able to use his resources and secure opportunities in Virginia. His resourcefulness allowed him to create a stable life with his family despite the difficulties of migration.
Settlement: Michael’s settlement journey shows the complex process of establishing a life in a new country while keeping his cultural identity. He faced immediate struggles when he first landed in New York, all of which came with navigating a new society. He began in New York working demanding jobs such as a waiter in a restaurant in New York and he did roofing briefly. Then when he moved to Richmond Va because of a job opportunity, managing a store. So, he managed two different Subways, he worked at Pizza Hut as a delivery driver, and he worked as a painter. The biggest challenge in his settlement would be getting his pharmacy credentials from Egypt aligned with U.S. requirements. So, he began school at VCU where he had exams, and internships to secure his updated license. Cultural adaptation is another aspect of Mike’s settlement some main examples include the differences in physical greetings, communication styles, and gender interactions. He also preserved his Egyptian traditions, especially through his current church which is in Richmond Virginia. They hosted a cultural festival recently that allowed Mike to share his heritage with the community, I will share the link at the end of the report. Events like this helped to reinforce his cultural identity and educate others. Another difference Mike faced with the settlement was going from a tightly knit community like the one he grew up in versus the more individualistic culture here in the United States. He works to create that sense within his own family and stay active in the community. His three kids understand their heritage even while growing up in a different cultural environment due to Mike.
Membership: For the membership aspect I want to talk about Mikes Career as a pharmacist. This role established Mike not only as a member of a workplace but also as a trusted person in public health. Mike’s job at the Walmart pharmacy began when he was approached by my dad when he was working at Rite Aid and was offered a position. At first, Mike was hesitant but my dad came back three months later, and he accepted the offer. Mike commutes daily to his job in Farmville instead of moving his whole family, which shows his dedication to them and the church. Mike’s job consists of dispensing medication, providing patient consultations, giving vaccinations, and making sure patients understand treatment plans. An aspect of Mike’s job that someone wouldn’t really think about is how Mike bridges cultural gaps every day. When he interacts with patients and coworkers he draws on his own experiences of cultural adaptation. Due to what Mike has faced he has developed a sensitivity to challenges others might face. He applies his understanding by educating others about American culture in a way that is friendly and empathetic. One example he stated in the interview was about helping a fellow pharmacist with communication styles and social customs. So not only is Mike giving medical care, but he is also serving as a cultural mediator who promotes understanding and respect within his job.
Conclusion: To conclude I believe Michael Azab’s story is a wonderful example of the challenges and victories of migration, settlement, and membership in a new society. His journey from Egypt to the United States shows his motivation and determination to overcome barriers, cultural differences, and personal sacrifices. He figured out challenging things on his own and eventually adapted, he has done an outstanding job of preserving his cultural identity and helping others to understand. His experience shows all the complexities of building a new life in a different country. Mike is a family man, and community leader, and offers his helpful insight to others.
If you tap here it will open up the link to Mike’s Interview at his cultural event for his church
Abigail Dixon: [00:00:00] Okay, so we’ll just start with some basic information. So what’s your full name? Sure,
Michael Azab: Michael Azab, A Z A B.
Abigail Dixon: Were you born?
Michael Azab: I was born in Egypt, a city called Asyut, A S Y U T. It’s about six hours away from Cairo, the capital.
Abigail Dixon: Oh, that’s nice. And when did you migrate to the United States?
Michael Azab: I came here first time as a visitor in 2000, but I migrated in 2002.
Abigail Dixon: What was that like when you came and visited? What were your thoughts?
Michael Azab: So, I did learn English pretty good back home, but I found out that when I came here, it was a different kind of English. I learned, like, the British way of English, but when you come here, I guess the accent, or the dialect, it was different.
Michael Azab: So, it took me, maybe, like, six months to figure out what’s going on. Like, words like, what’s up? I’m like, what’s up? I didn’t get that. Like, oh, oh, or how you doing? Like, doing? Is that what you mean? So, it was difficult for me in the beginning, but after that, I got used to it.
Michael Azab: In addition to the culture too, of [00:01:00] course.
Abigail Dixon: What were some major differences with the culture that you noticed?
Michael Azab: So, for example, you can whistle back in Egypt, but in America you can’t whistle. It’s a disrespect, so we did not know that. Um. In Egypt, for example, you hug men, but you don’t hug women. Here’s the opposite. You hug women, but you don’t hug men.
Michael Azab: It’s just, like, you know what I’m saying? Yeah, I get that. It’s kind of, I guess because it’s a Muslim based country, so you don’t hug women, but you hug men fine. Like, you know, and that doesn’t mean anything sexual, if that makes any sense. But I noticed when I came here, it was the other way around. And I thought that was weird.
Abigail Dixon: Yeah, I could see that being a big difference. Yeah.
Michael Azab: Yeah.
Abigail Dixon: And If you want, you can start with your childhood and where you grew up and what that was like.
Michael Azab: So, um, people in Egypt don’t normally move unlike United States. You know how people can go from like one city for like three, four years and go to another one?
Michael Azab: In Egypt, no. People typically live there for like generations. [00:02:00] Almost same town, almost same house, maybe a change of the house, but not the change of the city or town. So, I grew up, I was born in 1980. I grew up in the city of Asyut. And, uh, my parents used to live in the same city for almost, and my grandparents too.
Michael Azab: So, like, a hundred years. Um, I grew up in that small city. It’s smaller than the capital, Cairo. Uh, I went to elementary school there. It had middle school and also had, um, a high school. Um, it was good. I learned a lot of things like in the school they teach you everything, including Arabic, English, french science, math, and there is a military education too.
Michael Azab: It’s actually mandatory in Egypt for all males, including children.
Abigail Dixon: What was that like?
Michael Azab: Oh, like they teach you stuff like how you, you, how you hide, uh, in bunkers and stuff. Uh, [00:03:00] and during this time we had a lot of like terror attacks in Egypt. So they teach you also about terrorists. What happens if somebody starts shooting in the street?
Michael Azab: What should you do? And so on. And I thought as a child that was like a big experience for me. Um, also, me being Christian in a country that like majority is Muslim, it was difficult for me a little bit. Like the names and stuff is different. Like, like Christian’s names is same as America, like Michael, George, while Muslim’s names like Mohammed or Ahmad.
Michael Azab: So you’d be able to recognize names quickly and easily. Um, Some discrimination of some sort, not all the time, but you can see people like make fun of your name, why your name is Peter or Michael, not like us and so on. So that, that, that, that bothered me back in the day.
Abigail Dixon: Yeah, I could understand that. So why did you decide to, come to the United States?
Michael Azab: Sure. So for that Christian reason, that was one part of why I should leave. Um, [00:04:00] as you grow older. You go into high school, uh, and then you go to college, you start feeling like if they have like oral exam, they lower your grades, they won’t give you the full grades because if you get a full grade, you’ll be, you’ll be able to be like a teacher or a professor of some sort.
Michael Azab: So Christian did not have that ability. So I thought from the beginning that, you know, I might want to go elsewhere. In addition to the economic distress, Egypt is very poor country, like one dollar equals like 50 Egyptian pounds. Um. As a pharmacist, maybe I would get paid maybe four thousand. I know it’s funny, but a hundred bucks maybe.
Abigail Dixon: Oh.
Michael Azab: A month?
Abigail Dixon: That is a really big difference. So did you , go to college in Egypt? Correct.
Michael Azab: I went to school of pharmacy in Egypt.
Abigail Dixon: What was the college experience there like?
Michael Azab: See, it’s funny because it’s almost identical as the United States. Almost identical. I mean, you’re talking about pharmacology and drug, maybe drug names was different, but you’re talking about active ingredients and how it works, histology, [00:05:00] anatomy.
Michael Azab: It’s all common things. So you think it’s the same thing, really. No difference. Except for like maybe Medicare and Medicaid billing and so on, we don’t have that back home because it’s all subsidized and it’s universal health care. That’s the only difference.
Abigail Dixon: Yeah, it, it does sound pretty similar. I wouldn’t have thought that originally.
Abigail Dixon: Yeah,
Michael Azab: yeah, because I think about it. Medicine, active ingredients, pharmacology. They shouldn’t change.
Abigail Dixon: So, when you came here, did you come by yourself?
Michael Azab: I did come by myself.
Abigail Dixon: What was that like? Was it different coming to a new place alone?
Michael Azab: It was difficult, Abby. Like, I was very young. I was only 22 years old.
Michael Azab: Um, I didn’t have my mom and my dad. That was my first experience going outside of Egypt. I’ve never been anywhere. Oh, a naive person living in a third world country didn’t expect that much. And I landed in New York. Oh! Which is like. That’s the city. Which is like, it’s the heart of the, you know, civilization.
Michael Azab: So to me it [00:06:00] was difficult, you know, try to, you know, figure out things, you know, get a driver’s license, try to figure out how do I live in these places, how do I apply even for application. Um, to live somewhere. Um, so in the beginning it was a struggle. Um, also financially because I didn’t have that much money, I had to work like double shift like 80 hours just to, you know.
Michael Azab: Um, I had to live with people. Like, uh, I found a lady with her husband, I lived with them for a little bit, uh, in Queens, New York. Um, so that was a start. That was the beginning. In addition, of course, to, you know, finish my education. Because, because even though it’s recognized as a school of pharmacy, you still have to do more work to get licensed in the United States.
Abigail Dixon: Okay, so what was that like? Where did you finish up your pharmacy school?
Michael Azab: So I did finish pharmacy school in Egypt, but even though you do have a license in Egypt, that doesn’t grant you to work in you had to get
Abigail Dixon: re licensed.
Michael Azab: Correct. So you gotta go, so in VCU, I went to VCU for like an internship for almost three years.
Michael Azab: Um, I passed a couple of exams to [00:07:00] make sure that they actually are qualified, like medical exams and stuff. And then I took the regular NABLEX exam to get licensing in the United States.
Abigail Dixon: So when did you move from New York closer to VCU?
Michael Azab: So that was 2004. That’s when I moved. I decided New York is not for me.
Michael Azab: I guess it was a big city. Lots of hustle. I’m not that type of guy. I’m a small town kind of guy. It’s not like, man, it’s too much for me. I guess I should go elsewhere. So, I decided to come to Virginia. I picked Virginia out of all the states.
Abigail Dixon: And, do you remember a particular reason why you chose Virginia?
Michael Azab: Correct. It wasn’t education. It was work. So I don’t know if you guys remember, but 2004, maybe you weren’t even born.
Abigail Dixon: I was born in 2006, so. Okay,
Michael Azab: so you weren’t even born. 2004, I mean, I was looking for jobs, and I think, I, I don’t know what’s the economic, economical situation of United States back then, but I couldn’t find a job.[00:08:00]
Michael Azab: And I went to like a, like a, um, like an agency that hire people, and they told me there is a spot at just Fieldtown Center Mall, if I want to work as a manager for like a store. Like a sub store, like a restaurant. So I accepted that offer. That’s how I came. And I didn’t drive back then, so I had to take the Greyhound bus to come from New York all the way to that Richmond station.
Abigail Dixon: Do you remember how long of a bus trip that was?
Michael Azab: Was about like six hours. And I remember I was trying to, you know, open my ears to hear everything that they’re saying, remember? You know, I’m still trying to understand the accent and trying to understand what they’re talking about. So I’m like, oh, I wish they would tell me what stuff.
Michael Azab: But everything was obvious, you know? But to me it wasn’t, you know, in the beginning at least.
Abigail Dixon: And then I’m going to go back a little bit. What was the process for you to be able to come from Egypt to here? Do you remember that? , what you had to do?
Michael Azab: Sure. For me personally, uh, to come to the United States, it was like a visitation.
Michael Azab: So, it’s called B 1 visa, tourism visa. So what happened is, I have to [00:09:00] apply at the American Embassy in Cairo that I want to visit the United States. You have to get an appointment. You have to show them, like, a real cause why you want to visit. financial support, and also a reason that you actually will go back to your home country.
Michael Azab: So, I came to America the first time when I was in a pharmacy school as a student, but I immigrated when I finished pharmacy school.
Abigail Dixon: Okay,
Abigail Dixon: did you have any trouble other than obviously the language barrier and the culture adjusting to the United States?
Michael Azab: Um, You do sometimes especially in the beginning because you don’t have a history of anything like you don’t have social security card I didn’t have a driver’s license. I have to depend on public transportation, which is not a problem in New York Because there’s a lot way so it’s very easy But once you start moving from places like when I went to Virginia, that was a problem because now I have[00:10:00] to drive Which means I have to apply for a driver’s license Um, and then, um, you know, you have to have a driver’s license, which means I have to study for it, and I should have a social security card.
Michael Azab: I didn’t think about all of that before.
Abigail Dixon: Do you remember, , the process of, you know, getting the driver’s license and the social security card? What you had to do to get that stuff?
Michael Azab: So basically, I have to change my visa from tourism visa to like a work visa, slash like studying visa at VCU. So, if you load an application, you Uh, I had a pharmacist at VCU, like they had a pharmacist to accept the job or the employment and then I’ll take that.
Michael Azab: You send it to the, the um, Immigration USCIS. It wasn’t called USCIS before. I think it was called Immigration Services Only, not, not National something. But anyway, so I applied for it and once you apply for it, they send you a, a, a work [00:11:00] authorization permit. And you take that work authorization permit and you go to the social security office and you apply for social security.
Michael Azab: And once you get your social security card, then you take that social security card with your passport to the DMV to get the driver’s permit. And then when you pass the test, you get the driver’s license.
Abigail Dixon: So after you got your driver’s license, is that when you were at VCU doing your internship? Mm hmm.
Abigail Dixon: , did you? Were you able to get, like, on campus housing for the internship at VCU, or did you have an apartment? No, I wasn’t
Michael Azab: qualified for that, foreigns are not, because you’re not a resident of Virginia. You know what I’m saying? You’re not qualified for those. So, it was basically doing everything on my own.
Michael Azab: So, I had to live in Chesterfield, and I had to drive all the way to VCU every day.
Abigail Dixon: How long was that drive?
Michael Azab: 15, 20 minutes, I think. I don’t remember.
Abigail Dixon: But with traffic it probably was that sometimes. You’re
Michael Azab: right, [00:12:00] but I had a very difficult shift. I was working from 5 o’clock in the morning until like 8 at night.
Michael Azab: Because I was trying to do as many hours as I can. So I picked 50 hours per week to finish my internship quickly.
Abigail Dixon: So what brought you to Farmville, Virginia?
Michael Azab: Oh, okay. That’s, uh, due to your father.
Abigail Dixon: My father?
Michael Azab: I was, I was working in Rite Aid and then, uh, I think your father came over and asked if I’m interested in getting a job with Walmart.
Michael Azab: And I said, yeah, why not? I said no the first time, though. Then he came back again three months ago, which is great, because he’s a smart man, he knows. And he’s like, hey, you sure? You don’t want to come over? I’m like, I do. Then your father said, alright. There is a spot in Farmville, that’s where I wanted to be.
Michael Azab: Would you be interested in coming? So I’m like, yeah. I still drive to Richmond every day. Oh, so you still live in Farmville.
Abigail Dixon: Oh.
Michael Azab: But I do like it.
Abigail Dixon: I’m glad. , [00:13:00] so have your views about living in the United States changed since before you got here to now?
Michael Azab: So. When I left, I was just like a young guy, like 20 years old.
Michael Azab: And what I know about United States is what I see in movies. So yeah, I was thinking this big house, nice dog. You know, you know, green grass, very easy life, you have time. My views changed a little bit because when you come in, that’s, not every city is California, you know, you know? Not every house is as big as the one you see on TV.
Michael Azab: And life is not that easy. People must work extra hard. And And I believe, maybe, I started noticing as I live further in the United States, that life is not as affordable as it shows on TV. Now remember, you can only know America from just TV and movies. That’s what most of the world sees. And of course they give you the good picture of what it [00:14:00] should look like.
Abigail Dixon: Uh, get that? Are there any, family traditions that you still carry on from back home or any values that stick with you that your parents, you know, stress to you?
Michael Azab: Great. So, so basically the things that we, we do back home, like we, we cannot, um, like, like religion wise. So our Easter comes in different dates than American Easter, maybe a week after or two weeks after.
Michael Azab: Our Christmas is not December the 25th. It’s January the 7th.
Abigail Dixon: Wow, I didn’t know that.
Michael Azab: So, our church is the same as, like, Russian church or Serbian church or Greek Orthodox church. Same church, same date. Um, as far as traditions, so, we don’t believe in sex before marriage. We have to be married. For me, I’m speaking for, like, Christians.
Michael Azab: We have to go to church, get married, and then, you know, Um, and I believe the same for Muslims [00:15:00] also. So the culture is totally different. So we don’t have, per se, girlfriends. We don’t, we don’t have that. It could be arranged marriage, but not really. It’s called engagement. That’s what we call it, for like a year.
Michael Azab: To see if people get along, if it’s the right, you know, partner. But we don’t have, like, that word doesn’t exist even in Arabic. Like, there’s nothing, such thing as girlfriend or boyfriend. So either single or married. We don’t have anything in between. Egyptian do not accept, like, same sex marriage. That’s illegal in Egypt.
Michael Azab: And
Abigail Dixon: it’s more open here.
Michael Azab: It’s more open. Oh, yeah. So that was the culture shock for me. So I did not know that such things exist.
Abigail Dixon: Really?
Michael Azab: I know. So even the movies, if you know, before the 2000s, when I was watching them, it didn’t have that much influence about same sex marriage, right? Well, you go to New York.
Michael Azab: It is like a gay day and all this, so to me it was a cultural shock because you’re thinking about these things. We don’t have it back home, so it took me a while to understand it because I could not figure it out. [00:16:00]
Abigail Dixon: Yeah, I would say it is very open here.
Michael Azab: I know. And it continues
Abigail Dixon: to widen.
Michael Azab: I know. I know. To me, it was a shock.
Michael Azab: Like, I don’t understand. I still, you know, like back then I was trying to figure out how and why and it didn’t make sense.
Abigail Dixon: Do you still talk to your parents, or do you get to see them at all?
Michael Azab: Correct. So, my father came here about four or five years ago.
Michael Azab: Um, he stayed with me for like six months and everything, but he didn’t like America. I guess because, especially Virginia, I guess because of the fact that the distance between places, unlike Egypt. So it’s easier to get down from your house and your coffee shop is right there. There’s a walking distance to everything.
Michael Azab: He can just walk around and walk, but here you can’t do that, you know. So he thought, oh my gosh. His English was not that great, so he could not communicate with people. He said, and he’s only, he’s 72 years old. He’s old. He’s like, I cannot come here anymore. I just go back home.
Abigail Dixon: Do you go home, often?
Michael Azab: So, of course I still talk to my dad.
Michael Azab: [00:17:00] I talk to him daily through Facebook. Um, I went there like two years ago with my kids and my wife. My wife didn’t like it. I mean, my wife is Egyptian too.
Abigail Dixon: Was she born here? She was born in Egypt.
Michael Azab: She’s only been here for like ten years. But I think we get used to life so much here. Um, I mean, you have to understand it’s a third world country.
Michael Azab: It doesn’t have air conditioning. It doesn’t have a lot of things. Food is not, maybe not that clean, water is not that clean, so my kids get sick a lot. And my wife did not like that. So we decided right now that I’m going to go to Egypt by myself without my wife and my kids.
Abigail Dixon: How did you and your wife meet?
Abigail Dixon: Did you meet her here or did you meet her in Egypt?
Michael Azab: That’s a very good question. So my wife’s brother is my best friend. So I have known him for like 30 years. But when I went back home, you know, looking for a wife, you know. I wasn’t really looking for a wife, I was just visiting, because it hasn’t been so long since I’ve lived in America.
Michael Azab: I have not visited Egypt for a while. So I met him, and I went to his house, [00:18:00]and then I saw her. And I was like, oh, was that a little girl? Because me and my wife, we’re like 9 years difference. Yeah, that’s right. So, when you think about it, if you’re 20, she’s only 9, she’s just a child. But when you’re 30, she’s 20.
Michael Azab: That’s not a child.
Abigail Dixon: Yeah.
Michael Azab: You see what I’m saying?
Abigail Dixon: So, , your kids, how old are your kids?
Michael Azab: So, I have Amanda, she’s nine. I have Eileen, she’s four. And Ed, I’m about to be three next month.
Abigail Dixon: Ah, do they, go to school in Richmond?
Michael Azab: Mm hmm.
Abigail Dixon: Public schools?
Michael Azab: Yeah, just my daughter. The rest, they’re not in school yet. Oh, they’re too young. They’re too young, only three.
Michael Azab: But Amanda, yeah, she does go to school in Chesterfield. I think it’s called Old Hunter Elementary School.
Abigail Dixon: Does she like it a lot?
Michael Azab: Yeah, she likes it a lot. Yeah. That’s good. A lot of activities. Anything she has to do with playing, music, and all that, she likes.
Abigail Dixon: Speaking of kind of community stuff, um, is there any community events or organizations that you know you’ve [00:19:00] participated in since you’ve been here?
Michael Azab: Right. So, we’re very involved in our church and we have, um, about four or five churches, Egyptian churches in Richmond, uh, and we do something called Egyptian Festival every year. Actually, I’ve done one this year. It was in the news. I’m not sure if you see it or not.
Abigail Dixon: Oh, I didn’t, but I’ll have to research into that for this.
Michael Azab: You’ll see it. Yeah, yeah. So, I was interviewed a couple times, too. Um, so, we introduce our culture, food, uh, our traditions. Um, like, we have, we’ll have some, like, gifts and, like, you know, like, Egyptian pharaoh old stuff. You know, like, like, metal chain and statue, pyramids and so on. Um, in addition to the food, of course.
Michael Azab: And also we, we did provide like a church tour, get people, the community to know about our church and so on. And we did the fundraising to help change the rules on that church because we’re a poor church and there’s not that many people that go to that church.
Abigail Dixon: So , the Egyptian churches, , in Richmond, they’re Christian?
Michael Azab: [00:20:00] Yes. Yes.
Abigail Dixon: I was just curious because I know you had said back home there was a lot of, Muslims.
Michael Azab: So they call it mosque. So, and I think there is a couple of mosques in Richmond, yeah, but we’re church. Like, like, um, yeah, like a Greek Orthodox church, if you’ve been to any Greek churches. It’s the same faith.
Abigail Dixon: Yeah, my church is Southern Baptist. Southern Baptist. That’s where I’m from. Which is
Michael Azab: almost pretty close. Like, when you, I mean, the Bible doesn’t change. It’s just, you know, the rituals and how you pray and how you do things. But it’s almost the same.
Abigail Dixon: So, faith is a pretty big part of your life here?
Michael Azab: Most Egyptians, yes.
Michael Azab: So, my life involves around the church and activities around the church. Me and my kids do.
Abigail Dixon: That’s really nice.
Abigail Dixon: What about some different jobs you’ve had? What have you enjoyed or disliked about some of the jobs you’ve had?
Michael Azab: Oh Lord. Okay, so, I work as a waiter in a restaurant in New York. I work roofing for like three days. But it was too tough for me, I couldn’t do it.
Abigail Dixon: Yeah, that sounds tough.
Michael Azab: It’s very tough. Uh, I was a [00:21:00] manager for Subway.
Michael Azab: Two stores, actually. One of them was in Richmond City. Next to Richmond University, and the other one was in, uh, downtown. Um, I work at Pizza Hut, as a delivery driver. What else? I work as a painter, believe it or not. Oh! Yeah, I know how to paint pretty well, and I love it. Yeah, yeah. A carpenter, a little bit.
Michael Azab: A couple things. And a pharmacist.
Abigail Dixon: Is the pharmacist your favorite? Yeah.
Michael Azab: The easiest.
Abigail Dixon: The easiest? You would think that would be one of the hardest things that you do have your license.
Michael Azab: Me take that back. Maybe, maybe not even the easiest. Because I was about to say maybe physically not the easiest compared to like roofing.
Michael Azab: But mentally is the hardest because I have to focus even more. So I don’t know if you call it easiest. I don’t know. I guess I’m talking about the physical part. Maybe not this much.
Abigail Dixon: So what is some stuff that you do, as a pharmacist?
Michael Azab: So, normally your day starts with filling prescriptions. But in addition to filling prescription, you also give vaccination, you do [00:22:00] testing, um, you do something called MTM, which is like patient evaluation of medicine and see if they’ve taken it on time or the side effects of that medicine of some sort.
Michael Azab: But the most you do is consultation and filling prescriptions, which is a lot. Because you almost never catch up. Like every day, there’s always some leftovers for the next day.
Abigail Dixon: Mm hmm.
Abigail Dixon: What is the best or happiest time of your life? What would you say?
Michael Azab: The happiest time of my life? I guess when I had my children. Oh. Yeah, it’s, you didn’t get to that part yet, but once you get married and have children, you’ll understand what I’m talking about.
Abigail Dixon: And so, I’m sure your children and your religion is some of the things you value most in life here?
Abigail Dixon: Correct.
Michael Azab: Yes, yes. Family, family. Amen. [00:23:00] It’s a good country, especially if you make good money. You’ll be able to do things that you can’t do back home. Of course, I’ve noticed that family ties are not as strong as back home. Like, we even have ties with our neighbors. Like, remember, I told you that people don’t move?
Michael Azab: Yeah. So, we’ve known our neighbors for like 40 years. Like, it’s almost a family. So, we go to their wedding, they come to our wedding. We cook together, we bake together, and so on. So, our connection to everybody is very close. Here. Yeah, but not as much.
Abigail Dixon: Usually, here, family is one of the most important things, I would say.
Michael Azab: Sure, yes.
Abigail Dixon: Did you get married here or did you get married back in Egypt?
Michael Azab: Back in Egypt.
Abigail Dixon: So, it was kind of a big family thing with your neighbors and stuff?
Michael Azab: It was a big family thing. It was very expensive because there’s also culture in there. For example, when you marry, the man provides the apartment. You have to pay for it.
Michael Azab: You have to get it furnished. And you also buy, like, what it’s called, like A gold theory, like, I think I paid [00:24:00] like 10, 000 back in 2013.
Abigail Dixon: Oh, wow. So you have
Michael Azab: to pay gold to get married. Yes. In Egypt? In Egypt, which is very expensive. Yeah. It’s 10, 000 worth of gold.
Abigail Dixon: I would say that that’s a big difference from the weddings here, because people would just get married in fields here.
Michael Azab: Which is, I’m in favor of the American way of doing it, where people like, you know, work together there now. Men do everything.
Abigail Dixon: Is that primarily how you would say where you grew up was? Is more men are in a superior role with everything? Correct. It is.
Michael Azab: Most third world country men are more superior than females.
Abigail Dixon: And so what would, a woman’s life be like in Egypt? What would they do?
Michael Azab: So, that’s one of the reasons why I’m glad my kids are here. Especially females. I have two girls and one boy. Egypt is, is, is, is, most third world countries, especially Muslim ones also, men controls, they call all the shots. Women, no.
Michael Azab: Um, I do have some saying, but way less than men.
Abigail Dixon: So if your daughter would have been in Egypt, would she have been able to get an [00:25:00] education?
Michael Azab: She would. Okay. That part is fine. I was just wondering if But the law, for example, you cannot travel outside of Egypt without your husband’s permission.
Abigail Dixon: Oh.
Michael Azab: On the passport.
Michael Azab: Which is weird, right? Yeah. But that’s the law. Like, you’re trying to travel, like, hey, where’s your husband’s permission? You can’t travel, I’m sorry. Sorry. This is Ebeck from the airport. Or your parent, if you’re not married. So, it’s very strict, a little bit of Islamic law. Part to, it’s a secular country, but it, it, it, it takes most of the laws from the Islamic law.
Michael Azab: So, that’s one of the reasons.
Abigail Dixon: Have you, traveled any since you’ve been in the United States? Like beach, or mountains, or anything like that? Any vacations, or
Michael Azab: trips? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ve been to a lot of countries. In the United States and outside, like in many states, I went to New York, of course. I went to Florida.
Michael Azab: I went to, uh, Georgia, Maryland, Washington, D. C., [00:26:00] Pennsylvania, Chicago, Sacramento, California. What else?
Abigail Dixon: That’s a lot.
Michael Azab: I know. And I’ve, I’ve went to almost every country in Europe.
Abigail Dixon: Really? What was that like?
Michael Azab: Love it. It’s, it’s, it’s a different experience. They have more history. Less technology, um, harder living than the United States.
Michael Azab: The United States is the easiest of all.
Abigail Dixon: I was about to ask that, what the difference between Europe versus here was, because I’ve never been out of the country. Yeah,
Michael Azab: so if you look, you go to like, for example, Spain or like Italy and so on, right, subways, you know, especially if you have kids, you know what I’m saying, you have like, uh, strollers and stuff.
Michael Azab: It’s very difficult. You have to physically carry the storage. They have like stairs. Oh. Unlike United States where everything, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s well, well thought of. If that makes any sense. Mobile, yeah. And there, no. It’s very difficult. So, it, it, I mean, it is a good country, but I mean, it’s not as [00:27:00] advanced as United States.
Michael Azab: Also, you can tell, like, United States is more rich in the support of the government to entities like, like transportation, you know, facilities. It’s, unlike Europe, it’s, it’s outdated a little bit, which is maybe people like it because of that. I don’t know. Could be.
Abigail Dixon: Yeah, I could see how people could be attracted to the feel of that versus somewhere like Yeah, like you go to Rome,
Michael Azab: you like that, that, that Colosseum, you know, I guess they like it that way.
Abigail Dixon: What about states wise? What’s your favorite state you visited in the United States? That’s good,
Michael Azab: that’s, that’s a good question. So, I’ll pick Florida, and the reason for that being because the climate is closer to Egypt. I don’t like Virginia when it’s cold, did not like New York, hated Chicago, like I can’t live there.
Michael Azab: That was pretty cold, like, you know, the nature of our bodies does not get used to that kind of, you know, changing in climate, you [00:28:00] know. You go to Egypt, temperature is 115, 120, you go to Chicago, I don’t know, like, oh my gosh. Yeah.
Abigail Dixon: What did you really like about Florida, just other than the weather? Which part did you visit?
Michael Azab: Okay. So, I went to Orlando, Clearwater, and Miami. I like the looks. I like the palm trees. I like hot weather. Um, no cold. So you can always have fun the entire year. You don’t have a season. You know, I don’t like, I don’t like the hurricanes and stuff, though.
Abigail Dixon: Yeah, the weather, the weather here is something different.
Michael Azab: Changes, yeah, all the time. Let’s see.
Abigail Dixon: Have you ever experienced any unfair treatment here?
Michael Azab: Not that I notice it. You can, but it’s not noticeable. Like, you apply for a job, they don’t take you. I mean, you can think about it different ways. You can say, hey, because of where I come from, and then maybe the people that after [00:29:00] me was better. They’re on a bit of better qualification. These are just sometimes psychological perspective to like if people and it’s always happened to people who have been persecuted before It’s just mental like, you know, you’re Christian live in a Muslim country.
Michael Azab: You feel like everything every no is because you’re Christian, but Could be or could be no because you’re not as qualified as other people. So I didn’t feel that way. I never felt that way, and I don’t like to think that way, even if it happens. I like to ignore it and brush it off my back. I don’t even tell my children anything like that.
Michael Azab: I don’t teach them anything like this.
Abigail Dixon: Yeah, I never really thought about it from that perspective, but I like it.
Michael Azab: Yeah, if you, you can, if you get persecuted, this is what happens. It becomes mental. There’s a background in your brain. Even though when it doesn’t happen, you’re thinking, you know, it’s always going to be.
Michael Azab: It’s psychological. It could happen, but you always think about it because of maybe. Maybe.
Abigail Dixon: Is there anything else about your life that you feel like I’m missing out on that you haven’t told me about? I want to
Michael Azab: [00:30:00] thank you for all of this because it makes a big difference. Now you get to learn about culture, other people, you know, like I said, you, men can hug and kiss on the cheek, other men in our country, which is actually totally fine.
Michael Azab: Women you’re not supposed to touch, but when you come to America is, is the other way around. There is culture clashes, you know, and that’s how we learn about other cultures, especially United States. In other countries you don’t have that many people that come from different, you know, regions of the world, unlike United States.
Michael Azab: So, I think this will educate people more about accepting other cultures. They might do something maybe offensive to you, but it’s not, they don’t really mean to. Once you get to know them, you understand that in their country maybe it’s not, and you start teaching like, by the way, here it’s not acceptable.
Michael Azab: If you do this if you don’t do that and so on and as because of my backgrounds now, I understand other cultures So when I come in especially working in the pharmacy, we’ll have some technician come from different backgrounds I get it if you do something wrong. So by the way, I maybe you do this back home.
Michael Azab: It’s [00:31:00] okay Yeah, it’s not acceptable here though. So you start teaching people you get to learn more and be like more Sympathy instead of just judging right away say oh this guy is rude That’s how they talk. Like, for example, Egyptians and Middle Eastern in general, they speak louder, but they’re not shouting.
Michael Azab: They’re not fighting, but that’s how they speak. Like, if you go to a party, you cannot hear them, they’re always shouting.
Abigail Dixon: I bet in New York it was a lot of yelling and very loud there, too. It was close. Versus here.
Michael Azab: Yeah, and I noticed, like, different, two different states. Like, for example, New York people are not as friendly as Virginians are.
Michael Azab: Like, here, hey, good morning. Like, but in New York, it’s a good morning. They don’t just look around like they’re not going to answer you. Like, oh, man, that was rude. So, I get it. I understand. Yeah.
Michael Azab: Do you have any questions for me?
Abigail Dixon: I feel like I’ve covered them all, I just, the main point of this is just to understand you and your life and what your life has been like versus moving here and just your story.
Michael Azab: Which [00:32:00] is great because now you know, um, and you have to understand like foreign normally when they come here they have the fear that people will make fun of them, make fun of the way they speak, you know what I’m saying?
Michael Azab: Now, English is a big language, and when you say English, do you mean American English? Or do you mean, you know, like for example, English England. I went to England, they told me the buggy. Put the buggy in the bag. And I don’t understand what buggy is. I’m like, buggy, what is it? Your stroller. They don’t want to say stroller.
Michael Azab: They say buggy. And I’m like, trying to understand. It’s the same language, but each culture is different. Each, like, each state is different. Like, you know, southern people, I thought they’re more, like, friendly. Hospitality. But up north, no. It’s more to themselves, kind of thing. I think. So, it’s a good way.
Abigail Dixon: Yeah, I’ve heard that before, but I’ve never been really up north or experienced that.
Michael Azab: Done?
Abigail Dixon: Yep. Thank you so much. You’re welcome. If you need anything,
Michael Azab: you call me. I will. I’ll be able to give you even more information.
Abigail Dixon: Perfect.
very well written! engaging and educational.