Interview with Mrs Natalia Speer
Mrs. Natalia Speer originally planned to temporarily live in the United States to participate in a PhD program to study post-Keynesian economics. Twenty-two years later, Natalia is a working professional, married with a family, a devoted Chiefs football fan, and is heavily involved with events happening in her neighborhood and at the local public schools. Prior to this interview project, the only side that I knew of was the one that I had interacted the most with, and that was “Mrs. Speer” a neighborhood mom that was always involved in community activities. In addition to this, I knew that she was from Brazil but very little else. The Immigrant Stories Project for the class, Sociology 318: Sociology of Immigration under the direction of Dr. Trouille, provided the opportunity for me to learn more about my neighbor and to share her immigrant story with others.
After the introduction of the project by our professor, the process began with reaching out to Natalia with the project concept and to discuss potential interest in joining with her own immigration story. An interview was setup to be over the video platform, zoom, for the weekend after the Thanksgiving holiday. Prior to the interview taking place, a slight bit of preparation was taken in previewing posts on social media and professional development websites which guided the development of some of the questions asked during the interview. The interview began with discussing her decision to come to the United States to study, the cultural differences she experienced upon arrival, and the establishment of a social network with both the school and fellow international students. We then transitioned to discussing life after school as a working professional and then of the importance of family, with some discourse on immigration policy. The core themes from the interview that were emphasized by Natalia included the willingness to work to form new relationships, and to be socially aware that culture is different for all people, but is an essential factor for forming and maintaining social networks. Natalia’s immigration journey, albeit unplanned, demonstrates the role of forming social networks and the opportunities for learning that have shaped her experiences which are portrayed in her immigration story.
Photo Courtesy of Natalia Speer
Individuals choose to migrate for a myriad of reasons including but not limited to the potential for economic opportunities, societal structural changes, environmental challenges, or to follow friends and family. For Natalia she chose, not to come to the United States, but to take advantage of an education opportunity at the only university that she applied to that had a PhD program that allowed her to pursue her research interests in post-Keynesian economics. She further elaborated during the interview, “You know it was not like I wanted to come to the US, I wanted to come to that school, to study with that particular professor.” I italicized “that” and “particular” in this quote as the emphasis in her decision was not to plan to immigrate to the United States, but to continue to learn in an area of study that she was passionate about. Her initial plan demonstrated the purpose for arriving to the United States, and that was to learn, to share with others her research, and then to go back home to Brazil while potentially remaining in academia. However as affirmed at the beginning of the interview, “It goes to say that you plan, and it doesn’t happen.” After school, Natalia continued to stay in the United States, moving from Kansas City to Washington DC, to work with a previous professor from her undergraduate program first at the Interamerican Development Bank (IBD) and then at the World Bank.
The progression of transitions from PhD student to working professional and the networking with her professor demonstrate the social and transnational aspects of immigration processes. The social network of an individual who has immigrated does not lose the connections that they had formed in their home country. These connections span across the boundaries of nations as demonstrated by her correspondence with her previous professor from Brazil. To be able to make the transition from student to working professional, social connections were required to have guidance and support for shifting to her new role. Natalia credits the transition to her social network, “Fortunately enough, I had the right connections right? I got to know the right people at the right time, and I kept those relationships, and I built with them, and I kept them.” This social connection that provided her with the opportunity to make the transition to starting a professional career in the US illustrates the broader social pattern for individuals to participate in immigration and migratory processes to partake in economic opportunities. This is further displayed when evaluating the influence of social activity on the integration and membership processes of immigration.
As a PhD student in university, Natalia had the benefit of participating in a program that had many international students from around the world studying at her university. This created the effect as she described as, “we were all kind of in the same boat” and the bonding from shared experiences created “a very close-knit community.” It is a social network that she values and maintains to this day. Additionally, her school’s international students office was a resource that aided in establishing the social connections for students to acquire any resources that they might need. In this way, the school encouraged reception of students migrating to the university for education opportunities and supported that community through acting as a social institution that made resources available to ease the transition to American culture. Through forming her social network with her fellow PhD students, her reception was positively influenced by the involvement of her university making resources available and interacting with other students that are in a similar position as herself. Her willingness to put the work in to develop relationships and learn the cultural values of others demonstrates her social awareness. Although they do not meet in person often, Natalia was enthusiastic in discussing the friends that she still communicates with on a regular basis.
An additional point of reception for Natalia occurred after she had moved from Kansas City to the Washington DC area to the neighborhood her family currently lives in today. Prior to having her son, Eric, she described a daily routine. “I’d go to work, come home, got to work, and come home and never interact.” However, it was after Eric had joined the local school and his socialization with other students and then joining the local swim team that established a new sphere of reception within their community for Natalia and her family. She expressed, “I learned about swimming, and at our own pool, and that’s when I got kind of put into the bigger community, neighborhood community, and I learned, met a lot of people, and developed a lot of friendships.” The groups of friends that Natalia has made from her time as an international student and then with other families in her neighborhood demonstrate both a positive integration into her community and forms of membership as well.
Speer Family Photo – Courtesy of Natalia Speer
Throughout the interview, there were several ways in which membership was discussed. In a global context, Natalia’s previous experience as an exchange student taught her about the role of culture and identity. She recalls, “I went to an exchange program that believes that the only way to get to world peace is through knowing different cultures. It’s through understanding that cultures are different, and people are different and they’re not better or worse, they’re different.” The teachings from this exchange program teaches students about membership regardless of status through promoting social awareness. It is this lesson that has been portrayed throughout our interview in examples where she discusses the community that she found membership in with her fellow PhD students, in her occupation, and in her community with her friend group, “the Cupcakes”. Membership within the US political sphere was also portrayed in the brief discussions on her personal experience acquiring her student visa, various green cards, and then finally when she partook in the naturalization process. As a means of ensuring that she would always be considered equal, in terms of legal status, Natalia partook in the process to become naturalized not because she wanted to be a citizen of the United States, but for her family.
Her decision process mirrors her initial decision to migrate to the United States back in 2001, which was to study in school. She chose her school for its program and faculty, not for its location. Similarly, that has recurred with attaining citizenship because her goal was to become a citizen for her family, not for the location that she was living in. The last form of membership that ties most closely with the story that Natalia shared, is in the form of sharing cultural identity with their son through teaching, and making sure to explain that it is a responsibility that is shared by both her and her husband.
The Speers participated in a community group that teaches Brazilian culture as a means of providing membership to the younger generations, as Natalia describes, “teach less Portuguese but like Brazilian culture to kids of Brazilians, ex-pats.” Eric learned about the history of Brazil and traditions like “Capoeira, a Brazilian martial arts…its kind of like a dance, and it’s a fight.” Community groups such as these, in addition to providing a form of membership for kids like Eric, provide membership for the parents to form a community and to establish a social network based on a shared cultural identity. In addition to participating in community neighborhood groups, such as around the neighborhood participating with swim team and the program teaching Brazilian culture, the Speer’s teach their son that his identity is not one-sided but is multifaceted and each part should be cherished equally. The family travels to see both sides of the family, Brazilian and American, speaking Portuguese and English, and sharing food and music from both cultures. It was with pride that Natalia said, “Social justice is something that for him, for him, from him highly is really important.” For Eric, his lived experience has been growing up in a biracial and multiethnic home. Based on the examples in which Natalia has provided on encouraging equal emphasis of Brazilian-American cultural customs, it suggests that there is a connection that has encouraged his interests in social justice.
Mrs. Natalia Speer originally planned to come to the United States to partake in an education opportunity in a university that was becoming a focal point for her area of research in post-Keynesian economics. It was all meant to be temporary, but plans change, and transitions are made to adapt. At the center of Natalia’s immigration story is the value and acceptance of cultural identity. A value that she shares with her husband, and one that they have both taught their son together. Furthermore, Natalia’s story demonstrates the vitality of having extensive support systems from establishing social connections which has been aided by her willingness to take the time to learn from others about their cultures. Her immigration story is representative of how immigration is transnational, and that it is a social activity that involve migration, integration, and membership processes for individuals leaving a “sending” society and entering a “receiving” society. Migration occurs for a multitude of purposes, and for Natalia it was for education, and she entered the education sphere of a society that had social institutions available for international students, like her, to aid in their integration in American culture. She found membership with other international students that were in similar situations creating membership through participating in a shared experience. Integration and membership continued after school when Natalia and her husband moved to Washington DC to begin her professional career which was an opportunity to further integrate through a societal economic sphere. Membership for herself and her family continues to develop in their current neighborhood, and now her social network spans worldwide. As I have discovered from Mrs. Natalia’s experience, having social awareness for cultural identities and the willingness to put in the work to build and maintain social connections has been the foundation of her support system and the basis for her unexpected immigration journey.
Photos Courtesy of Natalia Speer
00:00.01 Lorelai: My name is Lorelai, I am going to be interviewing my neighbor, Mrs. Speer, for my Sociology 318 Immigration Stories Project. Welcome to this interview this morning!
00:12.5 Natalia: Thank you.
00:13.7 Lorelai: Could you start with a brief introduction about yourself? Just to give a little bit of background of who you are?
00:22.1 Natalia: So, my name is Natalia Speer, I am from Brazil, born and raised. I moved to the US to do my PhD. So, I did my undergrad and my master’s degree in economics back at home, and I came to the US to do my PhD. Initially I came for a couple years, that was the plan, but then I got married, had a kid, and stayed. That’s been like 20 – 22 years. So, yeah those couple years got extended by a little bit. So that’s another show. My whole family is back in Brazil, I don’t have any family here besides my nuclear family and my husband’s family.
01:06.4 Lorelai: Alright, so what were some of the decision factors that influenced your decision to study for your PhD in the United States?
01:14.8 Natalia: So I, back at home I used to study a very niche kind of economics, it’s called Post-Keynesian economics, and there was a big center in the US where people were kind of coming together… it wasn’t big yet actually, we were kind of building it, and there’s a lot of different scholars that were coming to that place, and it was a great opportunity to come to study with some of the big names and help build that. So actually, when I applied to my PhD, I applied to one school. You know it was not like I wanted to come to the US, I wanted to come to that school, to study with that particular professor. And so yeah, that’s what made me decide to come, but again that plan initially was to come, to study, to pitch it, and then go back.
02:07.7 Lorelai: Ok
02:08.01 Natalia: And I at that point, I thought I would be in academics, uh that was the plan.
02:15.9 Lorelai: The plan shifted, a little bit.
02:18.5 Natalia: It goes to say that you plan, and it doesn’t happen.
02:22.8 Lorelai: So, during your PhD experience in the United States, did being an international student influence how you experienced that program? Versus when you were in Brazil doing your undergrad and masters, being a more native student change how you perceived your college experience to be?
02:44.9 Natalia: No, it’s very different for many, many different factors. So, to begin with, in Brazil, I studied, and I used to… I am from Rio, right? So, I come from a big city, and because of that I had the benefit of having great schools. And some of the best schools in economics were down the street from where I used to live with my parents.
03:09.3 Natalia: And in Brazil, we don’t have this habit, especially if you are from the big city where you study where you live of moving out of your parent’s house. Most schools don’t have dorms, or anything like that. So I, in my graduate, sorry my undergrad, I lived with my mom, and in my masters I lived with my mom. So, I left home when I came to the US. So you start with that, you know there is all this different cultural experiences. I did my undergrad and my masters, living with my parents, and when I moved to the US to do my PhD, I had my own apartment, I was living by myself for the first time. I, there was, culture it was very different, right? And culture is not something that is written. So you have to learn by living it, and sometimes you receive or send signals that there not correct, right? You understand in a way that is not really the way that its meant, and the people that are receiving on the other side, receive it differently as well. So all of that was interesting. I was lucky enough that a lot of the students in my graduate program were international students. So we were all kind of in the same boat, and we were all a big family, right? We all together, we all helped each other, students and professors. We kind of became a very close-knit community, and so that support system was very important for me and there help.
04:49.7 Lorelai: That’s awesome!
04:50.0 Natalia: And it made a huge difference to be home in your own space and be abroad. Trying to learn all the signals and signs of culture, and language as well, right?
05:02.5 Lorelai: Alright, so do you, in that family unit, that you had with those other international students, was culture a big part of your identity? To be able to connect with the other students and were there times where you shared cultures, shared activities to further bond with each other?
05:23.8 Natalia: So, I was an exchange student when I was 18, 17 actually, so I lived in Jamaica, for a full year with a Jamaican family and went to a Jamaican school. And I went to an exchange program that believes that the only way to get to world peace is through knowing different cultures. It’s through understanding that cultures are different, and people are different and they’re not better or worse, they’re different. And if you understand that, like you can communicate and get to world peace. In a nutshell that is what it is. So, I was always very attune to culture, and that is why one of the reasons that I loved when you reached out was because I am fascinated by this topic. So, yes, we did lots of dinners together, and every now and then there would be like a barbeque gathering and, you know like, we would share different interesting topics, and things from our own country or culture. So, there was a lot of that sharing of our identity. I was, for the longest time, the only Brazilian in the group, so we had people from all over. We had Mexican, a Colombian, myself, a Canadian, a French, people from Tunisia, and Bulgaria, so we had people who, you know, were from different cultures, and that was very interesting to learn about each other.
06:56.9 Lorelai: Awesome! Do you still communicate with them today?
07:00.0 Natalia: Yes!
07:02.8 Lorelai: Do you, have you had get togethers with them recently? Or do you share online?
07:07.2 Natalia: No, no the last time I was with them has been several years, yeah, several years. But we are, you know, like very, we communicate all the time, we are very close, yeah so yeah we remain very much in touch.
07:24.5 Lorelai: Awesome! That’s really nice!
07:25.0 Lorelai: After graduation, what were your plans after you achieved your PhD, you mentioned that you were thinking of academics but you ended up deciding to do something else?
07:38.4 Natalia: Yes so actually I am what you call an ABD, an “All But Dissertation”, so I didn’t finish my PhD.
07:46.0 Lorelai: Ok
07:46.2 Natalia: I had just passed my qualifying exams, and I was about to start writing my dissertation, when an old professor of mine called and said would you like to… I was in Kansas City, that is important that I mention. So I lived in Kansas City, so a professor of mine from Brazil, he was my undergrad professor, and he helped me with my dissertation, my advisor, my undergrad dissertation advisor, I was his research assistant as an undergrad, so we were very close. And he was here in the US in DC, so when he reached out to me and he said, “I have a position, do you want to come work for me? It is something temporary.” And I was, you know a little burnt out and I really needed a little break. The idea that it was going to be temporary was like, “ok that’s great”. He’s a professor, you know he’s somebody that’s going to keep my mind going and it’s not going to be putting me in a bad job. So, he was at the time the ‘Executive Director’ for Brazil in the Interamerican Development Bank. So, what does that mean? That means he was the representative of the Brazilian government in the board of directors of the IDB. And he was asking me to come to work as his counselor. So, I became, ideally was to be for a few months, I had just gotten married not much earlier than that, and my husband stayed in Kansas City because, you know I was going to go back, finish my dissertation and do all of that. That was 2007, today its 2023 and I am still here! So, my professional life started, and I was involved with the IDB, and a few months later he moved to be the ‘Executive Director’ at the World Bank. You know the Brazilian government, every now and then shuffles chairs and moves people around. So, he moved to the World Bank and brought me with him, and we worked there for a long time as well. Same thing he was the director, and I was the ‘Senior Advisor’ working in a group of lots of other people at that point, and uhm, so yeah life just happened! Nothing was planned. Actually, what was planned, something was planned, and whatever was planned never happened! So, what happened was that life just kept going and I kept flowing with it. I liked to say that. Fortunately enough, I had the right connections right? I got to know the right people at the right time, and I kept those relationships, and I built with them, and I kept them. Again, this was a professor from undergrad, from Brazil! Here I am in Kansas City!
10:43.7 Lorelai: yeah?
10:43.8 Natalia: We’re still in touch, we’re still talking, he had gone to visit me in Kansas City, I invited him to a seminar, so he went, and so it’s the connection and the relationships are something that I treasure a lot. That is something for me is very important.
11:01.1 Lorelai: Ok, that yeah no, having those connections and like being able to transition and like have those people to help you along that, I can see that its really important to you.
11:12.6 Natalia: It is, he, he’s my son’s godfather now!
11:14.9 Lorelai: Awwww that’s so cute!
11:17.2 Lorelai: Ok, uhm, so as an international student in the United States, you do have to have a visa. Was the process to getting that, what was the process to getting that visa? Your personal experience? And how did that maybe influence, your work at the International Development Bank after your ABD?
11:42.2 Natalia: So that was before 2001.
11:48.3 Lorelai: Ok?
11:48.5 Natalia: Actually, that was in 2001 before September 11th.
11:53. 2 Lorelai: Gotcha
11:53.4 Natalia: So, everything was different, everything was simpler and easier. I don’t recall, I honestly don’t recall having any much of a trouble getting my visa. Uhm my student visa, the school was very much involved, uhm and I do recall that regularly every time I went home, I had to renew my visa, you know? And I would go home every year for Christmas, and I had to renew my visa and all. So, I don’t recall or remember a lot of problems with doing so. The school was a good support, you know like they helped a lot, and all the paperwork and everything was ready and prepared. So yeah, that was not a big issue, but yes you need a special visa, and you cannot work which was a big restraint in your life.
12:51.5 Lorelai: Would you consider your school, not like the professors, but the school itself, as a social institution that was a part of your social network?
12:59.4 Natalia: At the time, well yeah, I mean am I considering the students as well? Not the professors, but the international students at least? I would say so, they had an international students office that was very much engaged and we had them to connect to, so besides my small group, there’s a lot of international students at that school, and you know there was a lot of support if we needed anything. That was a place that we knew we could go to uh to get help in any different type of help. Right? And to adjust to the life in the US, to learn different things, to get to know other people, if you need help with finding a roommate. So, there was a lot of help from the international students office.
13:49.4 Lorelai: Yay alright! Had school and even after school, are their social institutions or community programs that have helped with you bonding with your community, like with your international students, your work colleagues, or even with your family in your own neighborhood with your son and your husband? What kind of programs have helped with expanding your social network?
14:17.0 Natalia: A few things, the first one is, from my year as an international exchange student, and after when I moved to the US. I always try to not stay within the Brazilian community. Right? If I am here, I am learning the life in the US. I treasure my culture extremely, I am very much connected to it, I do a lot of things, if my radio isn’t on an NPR, it’s on a Brazilian radio station, that only plays Brazilian music. So, you know I am always trying to feed from that, that helps me keep going. But I never wanted to be, you know only, I did not want to live in Brazil in the US. I want to live in the US. So that was something that was important for me from the beginning, and because of that I tried to connect with different groups. When my son was born, I had very clear to me that he is a Brazilian American. So that it was very important that he experience and knows of both sides, and he keeps the roots on both sides. So, at that point, I did connect to a Brazilian group, it is a community group, and the purpose is to teach less Portuguese but like Brazilian culture to kids of Brazilians, ex-pats. So there are a bunch of kids that, they start it at 3 years old and they go all the way to 14, and then they move on to be volunteers in the group, so it is a way for different kids to learn a lot about the other side but also see “I’m not alone in this”, “My mom is not the only weird person that speaks to me in a different language”, and “its awkward with some of my mom’s friends because she does things that other people don’t do!” So, it is nice for him in that sense. So that was an important community group for me for when Eric was 2.5 years old. And then the neighborhood at first, I didn’t connect when he was little. We never connect, I’d go to work, come home, go to work, and come home and never interact. Until he was in kindergarten and got exposed to the other kids in the neighborhood, and so I start having a different group. I have a group of friends, that we call the “Cake Group”, so its about 5 or 6 of us and we are very close. Most of us neighborhood moms, all of us have a kid that went to the same grade together, and they are the “Cupcakes” and the husbands are the “Beefcakes”, so we have that one group that is a good support group, and we have people from different backgrounds as well. And then at Eric’s, the end of his Kindergarten, I learned about swim team. I learned about swimming, and at our own pool, and that’s when I got kind of put into the bigger community, neighborhood community, and I learned, met a lot of people, and developed a lot of friendships. So yeah, work as well, work I usually… I don’t do anything halfway, so when I do anything I, you know, dive in, and because of that for me it’s very important that I work with people that I can actually call friends, that I can relate. I cannot work with somebody if I do not have a minimum cordial relationship. So those people also end up becoming friends a support system.
18:15.6 Lorelai: Awesome! So, building off of diving headfirst into everything, and how you have had past experiences with as an exchange student in Jamaica and as a PhD student, and international student, does it take a lot of effort to be able to dive into building those relationships, building those social networks, and diving in to those other social cultures to learn and connect?
18:44.1 Natalia: So, I do not know if it takes a lot of effort. This was something that I did without thinking. I wasn’t afraid the first time, I was 17, I had never left my parent’s house, and I went to another country. I didn’t speak the language, I couldn’t speak English when I moved to Jamaica, and my family there they couldn’t speak Portuguese, and to this day 30 plus years I still call them “Mom” and “Dad”. We communicate regularly, and I had a Jamaican sister. We had a few years back, a family trip, we all went to Disney together, so yeah it was my parents, my sister, her husband and kids, my husband and kid, and we all met in Florida. So, I wouldn’t say that it takes effort. I would say that it takes attention sometimes, right? Its understanding that you are dealing with different cultures, and I would say that it is even more important. I am in an intercultural relationship; my husband is American. And there are to this day, and we’ve been married for 17 years, and to this day there are things that I do that he doesn’t understand and there are things that he does, well it’s not that he doesn’t understand, he reads it in a different way. There are reactions that I have for things, expressions, and all that he reads in a way that is not what I am saying, or I’m reacting or how I am reacting to in the same way from him to me. So that relationship takes a lot of attention, it takes a lot of understanding that you are not always talking the same language. You are not always, I cannot expect from him what I would expect from a Brazilian husband, because its different. It’s a completely different thing. So that relationship, especially you need to have, if you want to have a successful relationship which I believe that we do we are very happy. But it is something that you need to, communication, verbal communication is very important. Sitting together and talking through things, and saying, “Listen, this is what I am trying to say” explicitly talking through things. Sending signals and expecting the other person to read those doesn’t always work. And in the same way, I cannot just assume that he is saying something with signals because the way that I am reading is not necessarily what he is saying. So that relationship is the one that I would say, and I wouldn’t call it effort, because effort comes to me like ‘a burden’, right? It takes more work, more attention, more dedication to it. The others I think that I need to be attentive to it, and I always do it where every time I cross the line where I do something weird where I use a word that’s weird. I’m like, “I’m sorry guys, it’s just who I am!”
22:00.6 Lorelai: So, it’s an ever-learning process that you are going through?
22:03.7 Natalia: Yes! An eternal learning process. I am always going to be, I am an American citizen, I have been here for 22 years, I am always going to be Brazilian.
22:14.2 Lorelai: That’s really nice!
22:14.6 Natalia: That’s my roots, that’s who I am.
22:18.9 Lorelai: So, what are, we’ve touched on this a little bit with the program that your son went to learn Portuguese, Brazilian culture, are there other ways that you maintain that culture but also acknowledge that he is also American in your household.
22:38.4 Natalia: So yes, I speak a lot in Portuguese to him. There are some words that in the household, even my husband, who doesn’t speak Portuguese, that’s the word that we use. He doesn’t call me “mom”, he calls me “mamãe” which is the Portuguese word for “mamãe” for “mom” “mommy”, and that is how my husband refers to me. So, there’s a little, food we cook, well my husband cooks Brazilian food, I don’t cook. So, my husband cooks Brazilian food, and I am always in contact with my parents. Before the pandemic, one thing that I always, was very important to me was, I used to take Eric to Brazil every year. And when he goes there, he is a true “Carioca surfer” you know like a “kid from Rio”. He’s surfing, he’s in the water, you look at him and he belongs in there, he fits in perfectly. So yeah, the contact with the culture through food and music, and when he was little, I used to read him different Brazilian books. He did “capoeira”, so “capoeira” is a Brazilian martial arts that is very much Brazilian and it comes from, it was something invented by the slaves. It’s kind of like a dance, and it’s a fight. It’s a fight but it was disguised, it was a fight, but it was disguised as a dance for the slaves to be able to run away from the masters. So yes, he did that for a long time, and he learned a lot about the history, Brazilian history through the capoeira, so that was nice.
24:19.1 Lorelai: Awesome! So does this create the effect of having one foot in both worlds for both you and your family in general. You have a foot in Brazilian culture and a foot in American culture, so that makes you both Brazilian-American and Brazilian, if that makes sense.
24:38.1 Natalia: Yeah, I think it does, but not in a bad way. You know it’s not in a conflictive way.
24:44.4 Lorelai: Yeah
24:44.8 Natalia: And for example, I told you that I always made a point to bring Eric to Brazil every year. I did that, and I remember once we were there in October when he was little and classes didn’t matter, and we were there in October. Because I also recognize that he is American and not only Brazilian, he’s American, I made a point to be back in the US on October 31st. Because he is American and Halloween is an important holiday for him, a celebration for him. Right? So, it’s not because I am the Brazilian mom that I overload him and forget about the other side. It’s not just Brazilian culture for me. It’s very much important to me that respect both sides, so yeah, we keep a foot in both each one of the sides, in a good way. In a positive way.
25:39.5 Lorelai: That’s nice, so it’s a sharing of worlds
25:42.6 Natalia: It is, it is, and it is not only a sharing of worlds but, yeah, it’s like a grouping of worlds, right? Yeah, it’s not, we at home kind of put them both together. Like I told you that my husband cooks Brazilian food, and he does it sometimes completely by himself. I remember at one point, we didn’t have Eric at one point, and I got home from work, he had cooked, I would say it’s the equivalent to a baked pot pie, a chicken pot pie. He had cooked that, and completely out of the blue. He got on the internet, he got the recipe, and he cooked it. Every bite that I took of it, I cried. I tasted just like my grandmother’s, and so it was him, right? I had never asked for anything. He had eaten it at my house in Brazil, and so he got home, and looked for it, looked for the recipe, got everything, cooked it, and every bite I took, I cried. But again, it’s not just me bringing it in, it was him bringing it in. So, it’s, we kind of put it together.
26:54.6 Lorelai: I like that, kind of like a puzzle piece almost, I like that.
26:57.3 Natalia: Exactly! Exactly!
27:00.3 Lorelai: So, you have been in the United States, you have stayed, you planned to be temporary, but you have stayed, and you have a wonderful family, a very nice son, a very loving husband, Did that influence your decision to become naturalized, to become a US citizen?
27:20.3 Natalia: Yes, and actually I only became a US citizen recently. I think it was 2018 or so? And it was interesting, it was right before Hillary/Trump’s election, and I had never been illegal in this country, I was at first on a student visa, and then I got married and had my green card, I was never illegal. But at that point there was a lot of discussion, but at that point there was a lot of discussion on immigration, right? I, not because of that, but more that because if something ever happens if I have to go to court in the US, for whatever reason, I am not an equal, that is how I felt. Actually, I was afraid I would not be an equal, right? So, I was like, “I need to do that”, so I went ahead and got my citizenship, not because I wanted to be an American, but because I feared that if anything happened, I needed to be an equal in this country if I am living here. And fair enough right after my citizenship came, I was riding in the car with Eric, who was little, he’s 14 now, and he looked at me and said, “mamãe I can now relax”, and I said, “What do you mean sweetie?”, “well now you cannot be sent back home”. Right? That kid had never expressed anything, he had never said anything. But that was something that was inside of him. The fear because of all, and it was not something that we discussed at home, but the fear because everything that he heard around him, it was eating him inside. So, I was really sad, it hurt me a whole lot when I heard him saying, “I don’t need to worry anymore” which means, “I worried before that you would be sent home”
29:30.7 Lorelai: That, that both, is sad but also his social awareness at such a young age is very impressive.
29:40.0 Natalia: It is, it is, but again it is because, so Eric, besides being a Brazilian-American, his father is a biracial man. So, his parents, his mom was a white woman, a Caucasian woman, but his dad is a black man, and it’s the side that he identifies with most, as black, but his parents got divorced at a very young age. And his father married again to a black woman, and all of the cousins, everybody it’s a black family, it’s a black culture. That’s who he identifies with, so if you ask Eric, “What are you?”, “Well I am a black-white person, I am Latino, I am American – Brazilian”, you know he has like all this different boxes that he needs to check, and because of that I think that he pays a lot of attention to a lot of things. Social justice is something that for him, for him, coming from him highly is really important.
30:44.1 Lorelai: That’s good! That’s good! So that naturalization, becoming a US citizen, was more of like a safeguard? During that time because it was so politically turmoil regarding immigration?
30:55.7 Natalia: So, it’s not because of that, it was more if anything happened, I felt that I needed to be an equal.
31:02.5 Lorelai: Right, sorry, that was my misunderstanding!
31:03.9 Natalia: That is ok! It’s because I never felt, you know, I had a green card, I never felt threatened, you know, like I was never scared for my status or anything. So it wasn’t that debate that made me go ahead and get it.
31:19.5 Lorelai: It was family.
31:20.8 Natalia: It was family, yeah.
31:23.4 Lorelai: What was the process that you took to naturalized, or what was your personal experience with that process?
31:30.7 Natalia: It was, and again I am always like, “Right before!” So, I was right before 9/11 and I was right before Trump came in, so it was still a little easier, simpler. When I did my green card process, I did it myself, we did it at home, I never hired anybody, I never asked for help with anything, my husband and I did it together. And when I went for the citizenship, we did it the same way. So, I got all the papers, I filled them, I was a little nervous about the interviews so I did practice a lot online for the questions and all. For the naturalization, I did, I have a friend that is a immigration lawyer, I did not know him when I was doing my green card, but he is from DC. So he is an immigration lawyer, so after I filled all my paperwork, I just send it to him and said, “Can you just check and to see if you have any comments to give”, so and he said, “your fine all I would do was take this date”… because they ask for all the dates that you have been out of the country, and I think it was for the last 5 to 7 years and I had one that was a little older than that and he said, “Take that out, they are only asking for the last 5 don’t put 6.” So that was the only comment he had, and I remember sending everything, and then going for the biometrics. And I remember being very impressed when I went to the interview, because I sat in front of the immigration person in a little room, and he got my paperwork. When I did my green card, I was in Kansas City, so I used the immigration office, I think it was in Kansas City – I can remember, it wasn’t DC. So, whatever I was supposed to send I sent it to that one. When that man in DC got all my paperwork, he had the envelope I had sent in Kansas City. So, they keep everything you had. Everything you sent, I was like, “seriously?! Where do you store all this?” So, they had everything that I had, so my entire immigration process was there in front of him. My first green card, my conditional green card, my permanent green card, and then now my naturalization papers. So yes, I was a little nervous for that, he actually asked me 2 or 3 questions and then he was like, “yeah ok, that’s fine” and I’m like, “What does it mean?”, he said, “You’re ok!” So yeah it wasn’t overly stressful, but I think that the part that I was most concerned for was the interview.
34.30.1 Lorelai: Ok, so that social network that you had in filling out the naturalization papers, your friend, the immigration lawyer, and then in filling out your green card in Kansas City, and then you also had the immigration office at your university as a PhD student, did that social network help you to complete the process as more expedited as it is now? Well, they changed the process, but did it help having that social network?
34:56.9 Natalia: I think that it helps when you come in with everything ready, right? And everything organized. So, I did say that in Kansas City that I did my green card by myself, but I had a friend that had done, that had gotten married, just a little bit before, and she had done the same thing. And she actually gave me her papers, so I kind of you know, I wasn’t flying blind, I can, I was looking at her stuff, and that helped me to make sure that I knew what I was doing. In Kansas City, that was the only support I really had, was her paperwork. When I was doing the naturalization, having that immigration friend, immigration lawyer friend, gave me a little more…It feels a little different to do a naturalization then to do a green card, right? It’s a little more, a little heavier. So having him, having a professional person in the area checking gave me a lot more confidence that we were on the right way. But I think that one of the things that is very important that helps expedite is you have everything together, you have a cover letter with, “This is what I am attaching to this envelope”, and you have this, and you have this, and you have this, so and then check that you included everything they are asking for. Don’t think, “oh they can see it”, no don’t because the more you do that, they are going to ask for that paper, and the longer it is going to take.
36:31.7 Lorelai: Ok, so no assumptions, have everything.
36:33.7 Natalia: Yes, whatever is asked, make sure that you have, and be organized in how you are presenting it, you know have a cover letter, explicitly stating, this is what I am including in this envelope.
36:51.4 Lorelai: How has your “American Experience” evolved since your arrival to the United States as an international student and are there any lifelong lessons that you have learned along the way in your journey from international student to full time mom, full time professional?
37:07.5 Natalia: It’s hard to say Lorelai! Because again I came to be here temporarily, I didn’t come to be an immigrant. I was going to be an international student for a period of time and then go back home! So, I never thought of moving my life to the US. I came with 2 bags … 2 suitcases, that was what I brought with me. So now I can’t see myself moving back to Brazil, and that is an interesting point to say because when I first started dating my husband, I remember, it was very early in the relationship and he said, “You know I would not move back to Brazil right?” and I was like, “I never asked you too? That’s fine! I am alright! I never asked you for that!” and then several years after we were walking in my mom’s neighborhood back in Brazil, and he said, “If you ever want to go back, come back, move here, I would do that happily!” and I was like, “Ohhhhhh that is interesting!” The first time he had not been to Brazil, when he said that, so I was like, “Oh that is interesting, what a change of heart!” So yeah, it is interesting, and I don’t know if I can say how it has evolved. Lifelong lessons, is create your network. I have my family here right, I have my group my friends, that are my family, and they are critical whenever you go through challenges in life, that you have that. So, if you don’t have your own blood family, it is important to create your family. To create your village, to create people that you can count on, and from experience, had I not have that, I do not know how my life would be right now. You know I have gone through challenges that I could’ve just look back on and said, “I am leaving” and I didn’t have to worry about my son. I didn’t have to think twice about if he was going to be safe or not. So maybe the most important lifelong lesson that I have is always have your family, be it blood family or chosen family, but always have your family around.
39:40.4 Lorelai: That’s awesome, Obrigada Ms Speer!
39:44.4 Natalia: De nada!
39:49.5 Lorelai: I think that with that lifelong lesson, very heartwarming one, I think that’s where I would like to end the interview on such a high note. Thank you for participating today! I appreciate you telling me all about your story, the ups, the downs, the rollercoasters, thank you!
40:11.8 Natalia: You’re welcome! And again, as I told you before we recorded, I am honored to be a part of this, because as you can see culture is something that is very important for me and the differences and paying attention to that, so I was very glad when you reached out, and when I saw the project, when I went on the website, so I was honored for you thinking of me and bringing me into this
40:38.5 Lorelai: Of course!
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