From India to America

Lillian: [00:00:00] Okay. This is Lillian Lindeman starting the interview. Would you like to introduce yourself?
Pooja: Sure. I am Pooja Krumenacker I am her aunt. I’m married to, um, her mother’s brother.
Lillian: Okay. And you were born in India, right?
Pooja: Yes, I was. Yep.
Lillian: So how, how long have you lived in India when you were younger?
Pooja: Um, I was born in India. Then we lived there until I was about two or three years old. And then we moved to Germany for a few years. I moved back to India when I was about five and then, um, came to the U. S. when I was 10.
Lillian: Wow. You moved a lot.
Pooja: Yeah, I did. For a while. Yeah.
Lillian: Do you recall your, like, reason for moving and migrating to different countries?
Pooja: I’m sorry. Say that again. Sorry.
Lillian: Do you recall your reason for migrating?
Pooja: Yeah. Um, they were all [00:01:00] for my parents work.
Lillian: And your parents work as?
Pooja: They are scientists. Or they were scientists, they’re retired now. Um, but we moved to Germany because of something my dad had some opportunity in the lab. And, and we moved to the U. S. for that same reason, for their work opportunities.
Lillian: Do you recall anything about India or Germany?
Pooja: Yeah, um, Germany maybe not as much because I was very young, two. You know, we lived there for about two years. Um, but India, yeah, a lot.
Lillian: What do you like about India?
Pooja: Um, I loved the fact that it’s like, family is very family is important here too, but there it’s very, um, extended. So, you know, your family, yes, you live with your parents and all that. But then I lived also with my grandparents, my aunts and uncles live very close by my [00:02:00] cousins live close by. So there was always life. There was always people around because of extended family.
Lillian: Wow. That sounds great.
Pooja: Yeah.
Lillian: Do you miss that? Like living?
Pooja: Um. Yeah, I, I mean, my parents live close by, which is nice and as you know, you know, you’re everybody else lives close by too. But, um, yeah, it was very like community sort of tribal.
Everyone kind of took care of each other atmosphere.
Lillian: So I know your cousins moved here, but do you still have family in India?
Pooja: I have two aunts who live in India on my mom’s side, and I have one aunt on my dad’s side who lives in India still.
Lillian: Okay. Um, so what do you recall about migrating to the U. S.? Like how did you feel?
Pooja: Um, well, I was, I remember I was 10. [00:03:00] My parents had actually come earlier because for work. So I was actually, uh, living with my aunts and my grandmother. And when it was time, they actually put me on a plane and sent me to the U. S. by myself.
Lillian: By yourself when you were 10?
Pooja: Yeah, isn’t that crazy?
Lillian: I, I mean, I went to the plane the first time this summer by myself, and that was scary in itself.
Pooja: Right! Imagine, like, going, yeah, ten across the world.
Lillian: Like, I know it’s slightly different because, like, it’s not as, like, because that was before 9/11, so you didn’t have as much security to go through, but still, did they walk you to the gate?
Pooja: Yeah, so they would walk me to the gate and then they had like a, you know, I don’t know, it was flight attendant or whatever who made, there were a lot of unaccomp- they called us unaccompanied minors who were coming either there or there, like, and then, so they would, um, make sure we all sat together. There was always somebody [00:04:00] watching us. And when we got. To where we needed to go, they would take us through, like, customs and passport and all that. Yeah, I know it was definitely a very different experience.
Lillian: Yeah, and so I’m guessing your parents meet you at the gate after you arrived
Pooja: Yeah, when we landed. Yeah.
Lillian: And when did you like, live. This were you in Virginia still?
Pooja: Yeah, all of my life when we moved here, we moved to Arlington. And then moved to Springfield. After a few years. So, and then that’s where I lived most of my life until I graduated college to go to JMU.
Lillian: Nice. And before you went to JMU, was there like any major institutions that helped you out with moving?
Pooja: You know, I don’t know, because I was so young, I know my parents had a lot of support. They had a lot of friends here [00:05:00] who helped them. They had a lot of like work colleagues who helped them. So they had a good support and good community when they moved here.
Lillian: That’s nice.
Pooja: Yeah.
Lillian: How was like grade school when you moved here?
Pooja: Let’s see, I started fifth grade in the US, that was my first grade. Um, and it was, I mean, it was definitely. It was an adjustment in the sense of, I only went to an all girls school in India. So I went to an all girl Catholic school. So it was definitely an adjustment because it was a coed public school. Um, you know, wasn’t as structured. It was a little bit more, fluid and that was a change. And then it was also like the, um, curriculum was a change because I’ve done a lot of this stuff earlier, like, in India, like, when they started teaching in 5th grade. So I remember being like, I’ve already done all [00:06:00] of this. Um, so it was interesting for my parents, I think, to say, oh, wow, they are ahead there than they are here. But then it evened out, you know, then everything caught up.
Lillian: So, like, ahead of, like, math or, like, all subjects?
Pooja: Math and science.
Lillian: Nice.
Pooja: And then the other stuff, though, like, I didn’t know a lot of the history, right? Because you guys learn in fourth grade, you learn Virginia history. In fifth grade, you learn this history. I never learned any of that. So all of that I had to catch up on.
Lillian: Yeah, that’s really easy because they kind of, like, lower it in elementary school, so….
Pooja: right, so it was easy to catch up, but it was still like, I have no idea what Jamestown is, you know, or I have no idea what you’re talking about here with the Civil War, Bull Run, all of that. So it was interesting.
Lillian: And did you do like any clubs in high school or middle [00:07:00] school?
Pooja: Um, I was, I started playing violin in fifth grade, so I did orchestra throughout, uh, elementary, middle and high school. And I did French honor society. It was national honor society. I really liked math and science. I was in a lot of like clubs for that.
Lillian: That’s pretty cool. And why did you chose choose James Madison University?
Pooja: Um, I chose it because it was close. I wanted to be no more than 4 hours away from home. And I really liked their biotech program, which is what I majored in and they had one of the best ISAT programs even now they do. Um, for what I wanted to do with the biotech. So that’s why I went there.
Lillian: Nice and trying to think about how to answer this, uh, you were a Tri Delta, right?
Pooja: [00:08:00] Yes, I was. I was the 1st charter. Ever I was the originating charter at JMU
Lillian: I’m sorry, can you just define charter? I’m not really know much about.
Pooja: Yeah, no, no, it’s okay. So, you know, like, have sororities and each year they have a different class, right?
Like, they have an alpha class and the next year is a big class. When we, when we were part of the sorority, there was no other Tri Delts before us. So we were like, the founding members. Of Tri Delta at JMU.
Lillian: Oh, really? That’s so cool.
Pooja: My class. Yeah.
Lillian: So, did you like a couple of friends create it together?
Pooja: No, they came. I mean, the national charter came and was like, oh, we want to create a chapter here in JMU and I really, really like the. Girls who were going to be joining, you know, we all had like common interest. We all like math and science. We always serious about our schoolwork. And so I was like, this would be fun. So that’s what made me join. Cause they were all joined or starting it up. [00:09:00] And I thought it was really cool that we were founding members. You know, it was like, we had created something fresh and new.
Lillian: I would say. Thats, great. Cause like Tri Delta is like a very. Famous sorority on campus, you always see them with their, like, little shirts and stuff.
Pooja: Shirts!
Lillian: You know, the, like, the 3 triangles.
Pooja: Yeah, well, 20 years ago. That was that was, uh, our 1st. yeah, actually. Yes, exactly. 20. no, I, yeah, about 23 years ago.
Lillian: And so going back a little bit, how are you received? Like, were you ever subjugated to stereotypes?
Pooja: For sure. For sure. I mean, when you move to, when I moved to Arlington, you know, there were not a lot of Indians in my class. So I get a lot of like questions, stereotypical questions, like, do your parents work at 7 [00:10:00] Eleven or do your parents drive a taxi cab? You know, stupid questions like from kids, um, whose only exposure to Indians were people who did that.
Lillian: Wow.
Pooja: Those jobs, not that there’s anything wrong with those jobs, but it was like, right. Yeah.
Lillian: That’s a very different, like, I’m not being offensive, but it’s a very different stereotype, like, nowadays when people think about it. Because usually it’s like, doctors and stuff like that.
Pooja: And engineers, like, educated. Yeah. Yeah, like white collar jobs. Yep, exactly.
Lillian: Did those, like, kind of die out as you got older?
Pooja: Much, yeah. By, um, middle school, there’s a lot more diversity, um, people are, and then they were exposed to more people who had, parents had jobs like mine did, you know, who were [00:11:00] strong in math, strong in science, like, strong in school.
Lillian: That’s good.
Pooja: Yeah.
Lillian: And you mentioned there wasn’t like a big Indian culture in Arlington. Did, like, that grow or like, did Springfield have like a bigger Indian culture?
Pooja: My parents started hanging out. My cousins started moving over here. So, we kind of created our own culture. So we had a lot of. Like, my aunts moved here, my cousins moved here. So then we started having more and more family here, so that became our culture. And then when I went to school, I met a lot of Indians, um, in, when we moved to Springfield, in the school, because the school was bigger. It was much bigger. And so, um, yeah, it was by then, then, then my parents became their, you know, their, their parents friends. So just kind of built up that way.
Lillian: Wow.
Pooja: Yeah.
Lillian: Do you still hang out with them today? [00:12:00] Like,
Pooja: uh, some of them we keep in touch, like Facebook friends, but they moved, you know, after school all over the country. So
Lillian: still good.
Pooja: Yeah.
Lillian: And have you ever been back to India after you moved here?
Pooja: We’ve been a few times. Um, I haven’t taken the kids back yet, but I should, but I think the last time I went back was like, Early 2000s before Rich and I got married.
Lillian: Did it feel weird, like, going back to where you were born?
Pooja: Uh, not really, because when I was in high school, I moved back a lot because my grandmother was still alive in there. Um, so I would say I went back maybe four, almost every year, up until like my early mid twenties. So I’ve been back a lot [00:13:00] since we moved here. At least six, seven times.
Lillian: Wow. And I’m assuming you got used to flying or you weren’t flying alone again.
Pooja: This time, of course, I wasn’t flying alone. I was with my parents because we’d go visit, but I was older. I could have totally done it on my own this time, you know? Um, but yeah, that was no big deal. It was, it’s just a long flight and it’s very expensive.
Lillian: Yeah, that is true. Um, do you still feel like connected to Indian culture
Pooja: for sure. Yeah, because we have, because my parents are here, my family’s here, you know, we celebrate, even though we’re Catholic, we celebrate. Like, the national secular holidays, like Diwali. Those kinds of things, just so to keep the kids grounded in the culture to cook it, we cook Indian food. Um, I try to teach them, like, phrases and words and languages. That, [00:14:00] I think, you know, they should know, that kind of thing.
Lillian: That’s good. Sorry, I’m trying to think of questions to continue this. How was Uncle, like, Rich, when you were dating, was he, like, into Indian culture? Like, try to, like, get to know that part of you?
Pooja: Oh, yeah, he was very good about it. Um, I mean, he hung out with my family all the time. You know, he loves celebrating Diwali. He loves Indian food. He loves, um, yeah, like he’s starting to learn phrases and stuff. So he’s very embracing of the culture.
Lillian: That’s good. That’s good. And do you have a dual citizenship with India? Or is it just…
Pooja: oh, no, I’m, uh, I’m an American citizen. Yeah. They don’t let you do. I don’t think with [00:15:00] India.
Lillian: Okay, just curious about that, because you say you went back a lot of times, so I didn’t know if you become dual doing that.
Pooja: Yeah, you need a visa when I went back a lot. I was still an Indian citizen, so now you do need a visa to go back for U.S. Citizens. Um, but when I went back a lot, I didn’t become a U.S. Citizen until I was. 19 or 20 so for 10 years,
Lillian: and was the process of like, becoming a citizen when you’re older, you think it’s easier if had you did it as a child or, you know?
Pooja: Um, you know, I don’t know. Uh, that’s a good question. I, I, I have. For me, it was easier because they would ask you questions about, like, the country and all of that, and I learned all of it in school. So it wasn’t like I had to, like, my [00:16:00] parents, I have to, like, read books about it and figure out, like, what questions they were going to ask and answer, you know, for the Internet. So we can just look it up. Um, they had to actually go to the library, talk to people, that sort of thing, because it was stuff they hadn’t learned in school. You know, um, a lot of it was basic, but like, what are the first 10 amendments called? Like, who was the first president of the United States? Like that stuff, you know, but just to make sure that they knew American history.
Lillian: Is there anything you’d like to add to the interview?
Pooja: Um, not really. I mean, I think your questions have been great. Um, I think that You know, it’s interesting now to see, like, when you see immigration experiences now, it just seem. [00:17:00] Um, like, I, and I identify with these kids come in and now, but they have so much more at literally at their fingertips in terms of social media to.
Um, I don’t know, I don’t know if that makes it easier or harder. As they get acclimated, you know, it could be. Either I think for me, it was, I think it was kind of nice because people had to talk to each other when we came because we didn’t have all that. And now I don’t know how I can see it being easy to retreat in screens and into social media because you want to.
You know, when you’re like, 10 or 11, you’re worried about what people think, like, you’re going to be different all of that. So just kind of not putting yourself out there more, I think I have easier because we have to, you know, no other choice.
Lillian: Um, you talked about phones and I was thinking about like, when you’re talking about, I was [00:18:00] thinking that they learned about American culture before they came over and…
Pooja: Yeah.
Lillian: I was wondering, did you have any idea about like, because I know you said your parents were here, but did they talk to you about United States in any way before?
Pooja: Yeah, we visited, you know, we had come like for vacation and stuff and a lot of most of the movies I watched for like American movies. These and, um, you know, we used to get American TV shows and that sort of thing. Um, so I knew like a little bit about American culture. Um, I mean, what really, really got me was like, how quiet it is here compared to India, like it was so noisy all the time, you know, and there was also like so many rules like, um, and India, like when you go to school, they, I remember this like van used to come get us and they just like, I think it was seated six, but they will put like eight or nine kids in and take us to school. No one cared. There were no seatbelts, nothing right. And so here we went out to have a seatbelt. You have to have a car seat if you’re under this age of [00:19:00] this way, like there were so many regulations and like, okay. It was just so quiet all the time. And I was like, this is so different. So it doesn’t prepare you for that, right? Like it doesn’t watching a movie or whatever it is doesn’t prepare you for that culture shock. But, um, I had, I, you know, because I went to a Catholic school, I was taught a lot by some British nuns, some American nuns. So I was used to accents and I was used to different cultures, but I think that that really got me was the quietness
Lillian: Oh, because you said you live in Arlington and so I wasn’t thinking Arlington would be quiet, but I guess you lived, right?
Pooja: Compared to India. It is. It’s not Arlington is not quiet, you know, but it is still, um, definitely a suburb. Like, I wouldn’t think of it as it’s not like, where your parents live, like, quiet, but, um, it’s that’s really quiet now, you know, [00:20:00] but it’s, um, it is. Definitely not what you see in India. This India, this is just always life. It’s kind of like more like New York. Have you ever been to New York City?
Lillian: Uh, no, my older sister has, but I haven’t.
Pooja: Okay. But there’s like always stuff going on, you know? Yeah.
Lillian: So it’s like when you live by like an interstate, or like a main highway, you just always hear the cars.
Pooja: Yes, but it’s not just cars, you’ll hear people, you’ll hear, like, dogs, you’ll hear, um, like, cows, you’ll hear, you know, people singing, you’ll hear music, it’s like, it’s just not just, uh, like, vehicular traffic, but just, like, the life of the city. You hear it more.
Lillian: I think I kind of got that when I went to Seville over the summer, like, because we lived in the center of the city, and there was people, like, always partying, there’s a big club culture there, so you gotta hear it.
Pooja: Right.
Lillian: Though, I think that’s probably was a lesser extent to what you experience it.
Pooja: No, but that’s right. You [00:21:00] always are used to like, noise, constant noise, you know, and then, yes, traffic is one honking people, singing people, talking, um, dogs, you just there. It’s a constant always. Yeah, exactly. Like something like in Seville, probably like a nicer version of what you would see.
Lillian: So you said you were going to like take the kids one of these days, are you planning sometime soon or just like when they’re older?
Pooja: I mean, I think they’re old enough, like 12 and 14, but, um, it’s just the cost for four of us to go. Yeah, like almost 12, 000 or something 13. It’s a lot just for air tickets, you know,
Lillian: so would you like, you said you still have family there, so you live there with them. If you went?
Pooja: Uh, yeah, we would probably visit them, but I think I would want to take them around the rest of India to, like, show them Taj [00:22:00] Mahal. Uh, you know, there’s a lot of beautiful beaches in Southern India. That would be fun to go to a lot of like palaces, um, the golden temple. There’s a lot of stuff there that I think they would like seeing besides just staying at the relatives house, which I think they get bored. After a few days.
Lillian: Oh, that sounds really cool. I bet they’d be excited.
Pooja: Yeah, yeah, just to save up. I mean, it’s a, it’s like an investment, you know, and time. It takes a lot of time to get there. So you can’t, it’s not like going to Europe where you could go to Europe for 5, 6 days and come back. Um, because it’s like a 7 hour, 8 hour flight, it’s like a 7, 8 hour flight, then a layover and then another 8 hour flight. So, if you’re going to go 24 hours traveling, you want to be there for. You know, a significant amount of time.
Lillian: Yeah, probably like a whole month or something?
Pooja: Uh, I don’t dunno if we could take off whole month, but I would think like two weeks would be like a good [00:23:00] chunk of time, but finding two weeks that I can take off work and then Rich can take off work and then the kids actually have off, you know, that we can go is, um, challenging.
Lillian: Yeah. And it’ll be a great experience for them to get to know…
Pooja: I think so. Yeah. I think so too.
Lillian: …their mothers side. Uh, the only question I have left is what do you think of
United States?
Pooja: Um, I love it. I mean, I know the United States get a lot, gets a lot of, um, heat and slack in the media, but I really love it. I feel like, uh, like me and my family have been embraced here. Um, everybody we’ve met has been incredibly kind and wanting to know about our culture. I feel like my kids have it. A bit easier. Cause when I went to school, it was like, I just want to fit in and I don’t want to be like the odd one out. I don’t have the weird name. I don’t want to have, [00:24:00] you know, it was like that, like I want to blend in now. I feel like, which is great. The kids are more like proud. They talk about who they are. They talk that their mom is Indian. They talk about the different holidays. They celebrate the different food they eat. So I feel like, um, I love it because the way it’s turned is that it’s embraced us and like the Indian culture. Very easily.
Lillian: I’d say it because like in class we talked about the lunchbox scenario where you would come in with your Ethnic culture food and like you kind of like you get looked at weird instead of having like a lunchable and stuff.
Pooja: Right.
Lillian: But nowadays it’s a lot different.
Pooja: Right. It’s cooler. Right.
Lillian: Yeah.
Pooja: Yeah, people want to try people want to like, Oh, what are you eating like it’s, um, it’s different and I like that. It’s changed a lot, but I’m, but I never felt weird about it. But, uh, even when I was little, but, um, [00:25:00] I, I love U.S. I think it’s been great for us to move here. I think it was great.
Lillian: All right. Thank you so much for the interview.
Pooja: You’re welcome.
Lillian: And I’m gonna pause the recording.