Interview with Sandy Wolfsom
The U.S. has always been known as the great melting pot. The fact that people of different cultures and countries both near and far can come to the US and integrate themselves is a testament to the amount of acceptance and diversity in the US. For the person I interviewed, my uncle, Sandy Wolfson, he may have only immigrated to the U.S. from Canada, but he certainly has his own story and perspective on what it is like to be an American immigrant. Alexander (Sandy) Wolfson was born in Toronto in 1974, where he lived until he came to the U.S. to go to grad school in his mid twenties, and never looked back.
Migration
Sandy first immigrated to the U.S. in his mid 20’s to go to M.I.T. for graduate school. He was fortunate enough to get a student visa and a scholarship which covered most of the initial cost for coming to America, needing to just buy the plane ticket. After graduating, Sandy moved to D.C. where he began working for an international organization. After living in D.C. for a few years, he moved to New York, where he currently lives. In each location, Sandy had help from his employers to cover the cost of a work visa, with different employers renewing the non-permanent work visa until it expired. When Sandy’s work visa did finally expire, he was fortunate enough to be working for a company who really valued him as a member of their staff, and covered all necessary expenses for Sandy to get a green card. Sandy reflects on the fact that he was very lucky to have most expenses covered for him, and that most people don’t have that luxury. He says that the fees for the green card for things like fingerprinting and medical tests would’ve been too much, and would not have been able to afford it. Since then, Sandy has married an American woman (my mom’s sister), and lives in New York City where he is able to make enough money to renew the green card without any outside help.
When he first came to the US, Sandy had a family friend who lived in the Boston area who he could go to for help or assistance, but other than that, he knew no one. One thing he did have though, were the other grad students in his program. Sandy was part of an international program for grad students, so he had about 30 peers in the same situation as him. He recounts how they were able to come together and forge social ties with one another, by practicing American traditions that were new to all of them, and overall just make the experience of transitioning to the US easier for everyone in the group.
While there were a number of factors both pushing and pulling Sandy to come to America, there were definitely more reasons for him to come to the U.S. as opposed to leaving Canada. The biggest factor that “pulled” Sandy to migrate to the U.S. was simply the fact that he had a scholarship to MIT, and pretty much every aspect of his grad school journey cost-wise was covered by the university. In addition, for the program he wanted to study, all of the top schools in that field were in the U.S, and Sandy was always interested in Boston as a city, so it seemed like a no-brainer to go. In addition to their being factors pulling him to the US, there were also factors “pushing” him out of Canada. The biggest push factor for Sandy was the fact that he just wanted to get out. He had lived in Toronto all his life, and just was so used to the day in, day out routine, that he wanted to change it up. The other push factor for him was the weather. While Boston definitely does have their share of harsh winters, it pales in comparison to that of Canada, so just being able to get out of the bleak and incredibly long Canadian winters.
Integration
Even though Sandy only knew one person coming into the US, the fact that he was in a group of grad students around the same age and in the exact same situation as him made it easier to acclimate to the new U.S. culture. Living with people who were going through the same thing he was, made Sandy feel more welcomed in the country, as they went out and experienced uniquely American traditions, such as the Super Bowl and Thanksgiving, which made him feel more so a part of the US. While some of the traditions themselves Sandy had never participated in before, he still knew what they were, just because Canada’s culture is very heavily influenced by US culture, which made it easier to integrate. One thing that did really surprise Sandy was just the level of directness Americans had, and the more individualistic approach the US had. While one cannot take away the fact that Sandy is an immigrant, Sandy recognizes that living so close to the U.S. gave him a huge advantage when immigrating over because not only did he obviously already knew the language, but was already a bit aware of what the culture was like in the United States.
After graduating college, Sandy started to work for the IMF, which is an international organization and believes the fact that he was a Canadian living in the US actually gave him an advantage in getting this job, which he acknowledged is not the typical immigrant experience. In his next jobs, Sandy’s particular skills allowed him to continue to work in the US, as companies were willing to put in the time and money to keep him on their team. Because he was a work visa holder, and was now living in the US for an extended period of time, he had to go through all the legal channels that most Americans do, like taking a drivers test and opening up a credit card account. Sandy recounts how originally his credit card limit was $300, for a person who was working a full time job. So navigating the different social and governmental services was a chore.
Membership
Sandy states that he doesn’t consider himself American, but also states that doesn’t consider himself not an American either. He considers himself to be in a middle space, partly identifying with American culture but also wanting to maintain his distance from other inherently American things, such as the poor healthcare system and gun legislation. Culturally though, Sandy does consider himself an American. He celebrates American holidays and follows typical American traditions, and has lived his entire adult life in the US. Sandy says that even though he technically isn’t, he feels like a dual citizen. He never wanted to pick one country over the other, so he didn’t.
Even though he has lived in the U.S. his entire adult life, Sandy and his family make trips back up to Canada to see family. Sandy talks about how he used to visit Toronto five or six times a year, and now after COVID especially, he’s lucky to go up twice a year. However, he also talks about the fact that he had more connections in Canada when he was younger, and as time has gone on, more of Sandy’s life started taking place in the US, and the Canadian aspect of his life fell more so into the background. One of the biggest things Sandy talked about always having been interested in is politics. Obviously when he lived in Canada he was following Canadian politics, and when he immigrated to the US he started following both Canadian and American politics. However, over time Sandy talks about how over time, he became less invested in Canadian politics simply because they didn’t have as big of an effect on him. This was one of the biggest parts of making Sandy feel like he was an American, was the fact that the outcomes of American politics now had a direct effect on him.
There was never one specific moment when Sandy decided he wanted to reside in the US full time. It became a progressive scale of coming to the US for school, finding a job, ending up in a relationship, starting a family, ect. Over time, Sandy has acclimated to life in the US and would consider himself an American. He’s not an official American citizen, but doesn’t really intend on becoming one anytime soon. He’s not against having dual citizenship, but his current green card situation works more than well, and simply does not want to put worth the time or money to become a citizen when what he has is already fine.
Relation to Course Material
One of the theories we learned about in this course was the theory of Migrant networks. While most of the theories we learned about in class typically applied to immigrants who were coming from much poorer areas, and revolved around them taking essentially any job they could find. This did not apply to Sandy, he was sought after by companies due to his skills, and was seen as a valuable asset to his company. While it wasn’t much, the fact that Sandy already knew someone in Boston made him much more confident in going. The fact that there was a family friend who he had a good relationship with living in the same city as him, meant that before traveling to the US, he could talk to him about what life would be like in America. In addition, when Sandy finally did arrive in America, having a network of someone he already knew increased his confidence, and was a person who Sandy knew he could always turn to if he needed it.
Conclusion
Hearing Sandy’s story, while it is one of the easier immigration stories I’ve heard, still makes me very thankful to be born in a country that I want to spend the rest of my life in. Regardless of where you are coming from or where you are going, immigrating to an entirely new country where you know almost no one is an incredibly daunting task and hearing Sandy’s firsthand account just made me appreciate his journey even more. While some may brush off his story and say his immigrant journey wasn’t difficult simply due to the fact that he came from Canada, I think it is quite shallow of someone to think that way when every immigrant went through their own hardships and struggles to get in the position they are today. I think in general what I can take from this interview is that every immigrant has a complicated and personal story of how they arrived in this country, and in my opinion, as native born Americans, it is our responsibility to hear their story, to know how America became the great melting pot we know today.
Sandy right after graduating college
Okay. So, I’m Noah Solomon, and this is Sandy Wolfson, and he is a current Green Heart holder from Canada. And so, Sandy, what was the main reason why you originally left Canada?
Sandy: Yeah, so originally it was to go to school. So, I went to grad school, I needed a student visa. I went to university in Boston, outside Boston, Um, and for that, I needed a student visa. And then actually I did not know what my plan was going to be after that. The job I got coming out of school actually was for an international organization. So I got a different kind of visa that was in Washington DC. Then actually I met. Personal, I’m now married to, um, while I was in D.C. and then moved, actually got a job in New York on a different type of visa, and then after doing that for a few years, decided, well, at this point, you know, I’m married to an American, my kids are American, and it makes sense to actually make this [00:01:00] Official or more official. And so at that point I applied for, for a green card.
And, you know, when I reflect on it now, I’ve actually spent more of my life living in, in the United States than I have in Canada. Um, although I definitely still think of myself as a Canadian.
Noah: Cool. Did it like cost any money to leave Canada? Like to get the whole, I guess the whole, um legal aspect of that cost any money, like getting the green card and going?
Sandy: Yeah. So it’s interesting along the way. I think originally the student visa, this is going back a ways was not that was not the huge cost. I mean, you know, the university helps, you know, there are other people in similar situations. They help them take care of that. And then the next 2 times when I changed my visa status again, not as a permanent resident, it was the place that I worked for that helped me do that.
I mean, they wanted me to work there. So they took care of that. So it didn’t cost me anything out of pocket. Um, the green card. Same thing actually [00:02:00] place I was working for I was on a visa and they couldn’t renew anymore. So they were willing to help me with that but I know that would have been actually quite expensive because just the fees itself.
You know, the, the processing fees, you have to get fingerprinted medical tests, like all that stuff, um, is costly. Plus, I think it’s hard to do without lawyers telling you, you need to fill out this form in this order and all that kind of stuff. So again, you know, my company pay for all of that, but certainly that is, you know, that would have been an expense. It’s not like a small part to think about it in the whole thing. Mm hmm.
Noah: And then, so. Was, was there anything like pushing you out of Canada or was it stuff mainly pulling you to the U. S.? So is there anything kind of like getting you to leave Canada? Yeah,
Sandy: so it was definitely more pull because again, you know, originally it was to go to school and, you know, it was clear the top universities with the top students, [00:03:00] etc. were in the United States, right? I could get a decent education in Canada, but for what I was doing, it was clear sort of the top was in, was in the U. S., so that was a definite. Pull factor. Also, you know, went to school in Boston. Growing up, we’d gone to Boston a lot. I always, you know, thought, hey, it’d be really cool to live in this city.
So there definitely was a pull there. Push factors, you know, beyond the fact that it seemed like things were, you know, I grew up in Toronto, which was kind of like the biggest city in Canada. Um, so I felt like, well, I’ve already done this, like kind of where is there to go? And also, you know, You know, at the time, I didn’t really think about it, but now I see, like, weather as well.
I mean, the winters in Canada, I mean, can be dark, they can be cold, they can be long. I mean, the summers are glorious, but like, you know, and just, it’s a dredge. So, there’s definitely that. But, you know, there was no, you know, I wasn’t believing oppression or anything like that. It was really to, you know, [00:04:00] it felt like the opportunities were better in the U.S.
Noah: Okay, so cool. That’s kind of the migration part of coming to the U.S. so I’m going to talk about like kind of how you integrated into the U.S. and so did you know anyone originally when you first came to the U.S?
Sandy: Not really, there was one person, there was like a family friend, um, who worked in Boston, who was someone who I could then, which is where I was initially, so, you know, I knew if I had an issue, I could always talk to him, you know, when I first came down, he took me to like, to brunch a few times, so it was nice just knowing that, but otherwise I was on my own, but again, I was in a school situation.
So most of the people I was around were very similar, right? There were, you know, a lot of international people. Um, I’d say half of my cohort of, you know, 30 people was not from the US and the others from the US were [00:05:00] from other parts of the country for the most part. So we kind of naturally were trying to sort of make our own community, which definitely, definitely helped. And of course, I had the language too. So, you know, I could speak American.
Noah: Because you kind of were in a group with a bunch of other people who were not citizens, did that kind of make it easier to integrate yourself into the community?
Sandy: Yeah, I mean, it definitely. Well, yeah, because we’re definitely people who are there who are with together. So, you know, some people were sharing their cultures of the holidays and things like that. So, um, you know, and people even if they’re different right. You know, I’m Jewish. There were like Jewish students. So, you know, showing up when there were Jewish holidays, there were people who were actively looking to try to get together.
So there were different ways to sort of, you know, bridge, bridge things. And yeah, no, and even early on, you know, doing Thanksgiving with, I’m not sure [00:06:00] anyone when there was American, but right, you know, you got days off school, everyone else was going home. You were stuck at school. Do something together. And now I hear you’re supposed to have a Turkey. Right? So we sort of like, you know, made it up on our own. So it was, you know, it was nice.
Noah: Cool. So after graduating college, was it difficult to get a job as a non-citizen and non-green card, green card holder at the time?
Sandy: So in my case, um, it was not. So I originally worked for. The IMF, which is an international organization. So actually in their perspective, I was Canadian. Um, and they were, I think that actually was a plus for me, but I recognize that’s not the typical situation. You know, I think, and now I’m on the other side where I’m hiring. Um, so in my case, I’m saying now that I’m actually higher students often now who come off and I know in my case, it’s difficult because the coming off a student visa, they only have a very limited. Period in which they can work. Sometimes if they don’t have that many months left, it’s not actually like [00:07:00] that attractive.
You know, it’s difficult, right? All else equal. It’s much easier as an employer to hire an American than it is to hire, hire a foreigner. Right? So, or an immigrant. Again, an immigrant is one thing, but a But, you know, someone who is, is here just, uh, you know, on a visa requires sponsorship, et cetera, is much, is much harder. So I was lucky. And then when I, in my next job, again, I’m, you know, particularly specialized. So again, once the company decided that to get the particular skills, they were willing to go through all of that, but I certainly recognize, right. If I wasn’t skilled, et cetera, it’d be much, much different.
Noah: Were there any, like, okay, I didn’t write this question down, but were there any, like, unexpected difficulties that you found? So you didn’t find, like, difficulties in finding a job, but were there any parts that you found, like, difficulties in, in because of the fact that you were an immigrant or, like, that you might not have expected or anything like that?
Sandy: There were some things, right? You don’t think about, right? I, I [00:08:00] was. Again, I came out, I did undergrad in Canada, so at that point when I was, you know, early 20s, I had, if you want to think about it, it’s the things you don’t think about, right?
I’d already had a local bank account, I had a local credit record, you know, local driver’s license, all that kind of stuff, and when you come to the U. S., you have to redo all of that, so I remember, you know, I was like, so, Okay. I was able to open a bank account, but I think, you know, the first credit card I had, and this is going back a long ways, I think my, my credit limit was, I don’t know, 300 or something, right?
Like it literally, you know, so I wasn’t like at some point I was actually like, well, what do I do if I, you know, groceries, do I need to make sure I withdraw cash and what happens? And, you know, it took a little while to get all that stuff. So it was just, it was just those kinds of things, right. I had to figure out.
I think I had to, you know, retake a driver’s test and all these kinds of all these kinds of things. So it was more of those, those small things of, you know, you have a whole history, kind of an official history and official records somewhere else. And you don’t have that when you come to the [00:09:00] US for the first time.
Noah: Okay. Um, so were people ever like unwelcoming to you as a non citizen, or did you feel like a part of the country?
Sandy: Again, I recognize it’s easier, you know, you can’t tell that I’m not American, right? You know, um, you know, people who know I’m Canadian, sometimes they make fun of it, but again, it’s not, you know, it’s, you know, it’s more in a good, good natured way.
No, but I’ve, I’ve always felt again, it’s called dual allegiances or something. Right. Um, so I’ve, you know, I still, I failed my Canadian citizenship. My kids have Canadian citizenship as well. Right. I do it, it still is part of me, but yeah, I, I, I’ve never felt any issues being down here. Well,
Noah: okay, so for the last part, I’m gonna talk about membership, which is kind of like your current feelings towards the US I guess, I dunno. um, so [00:10:00] was it tough, I guess this one isn’t really about membership, but was it tough to get all like necessary social services like health insurance, dental insurance, like, or did it come with like the job?
Sandy: So again, I was lucky in this, when I went to school, it was part of school, you know, they provide, and again, a community health service, but again, I had no issues.
I had no family, right? It was relatively straightforward. Since then, it’s been with, with You know, through work, so it’s, it’s been provided. So that hasn’t been an issue. You know, I got again, you know, the university helped me get like a social security number, right? So I have a social security number. So those types of things, which I recognize if I didn’t have or trying to do it on my own, I don’t even know where I would start. Those are really, you know, they were largely taking care of me
Noah: Okay, cool. Okay, so now, like, getting into the last part of membership, so do you feel American? Would you, like, I guess you would consider yourself a Canadian, [00:11:00] obviously, but would you also consider yourself an American? It’s,
Sandy: it’s interesting. I mean, I You know, I really, I mean, I like this country a lot. I think I, perhaps coming from Canada, I, you know, there are a few things here that still drive me crazy, that I can’t believe. I mean, I understand why they’re allowed to happen, but, you know, I, I’m still surprised, you know, I would say, to some extent, the system of healthcare and certainly the approach to guns just is insane to me.
But that’s, you know, yeah. So those are kinds of things where I sort of look at okay well that’s sort of American exceptionalism right so I don’t know if I sort of distance myself from those, you know, I would say, culturally in a lot of ways I probably do feel like I fit in as. An American, you know, Thanksgiving, Super Bowl, all those kinds of things, right?
They all feel very innate to me at this point, um, but at the same time, you know, I think I, I [00:12:00] still definitely feel myself as Canadian. So, you know, I know Canada allows people to have dual citizenship. I feel like I’m a dual citizen. Sort of just picked one rather than the other.
Noah: cool. Um, how often do you return home and visit to, I guess, like, your actual home and to, like, Canada as a whole?
Sandy: So, Much less so than I, than I used to, you know, obviously COVID made it harder for a while to go, but, you know, these times it’s probably, you know, averaging less, only once or twice a year, you know, it’s not that far, but it’s, you know, it hasn’t, it hasn’t been all that often. Certainly when I was younger.
It was more frequent, um, you know, probably five or six times a year, um, maybe more, um, again, I still had more connections up there, family, friends, et cetera. But, you know, my life is now here for the most part. Mm hmm.
Noah: Okay. And so. Even though you really [00:13:00] aren’t obviously spending as much time there, do you still feel like a connection to both countries and kind of a duty to both of them? Or is there one that you feel more, like, responsible for? I
Sandy: mean, I do feel to, I feel to both of them. I mean, I’d say if you’d asked me this maybe 10 or 15 years ago, it was probably much more on the, the canvas side. Like I was paying more attention probably to the politics, how things were going, et cetera.
I probably felt more invested in what was happening. It’s over time, I probably feel more in the U. S. More invested on, you know, the politics and all that kind of stuff down here. So I’d say over time, it’s probably natural, right? It’s probably more, you know, or my life is here and the decisions that get made here affect me more than the decisions that get made, you know, back home.
Noah: Cool. Okay, so those are all the questions I have written down, but I’ve thought of a couple more, so I’m going to be skipping around. Sorry about that. Um, when you first came to the US, was it [00:14:00] difficult, like, economically for you? Was it tough to, like, have a sustainable, like, money source? Or were you able to find a job soon enough or come over with enough to be fine?
Sandy: Yeah, so, look, I lived a total student lifestyle, right? I was on, Um, you know, I actually have a scar. I’m going to school provided and I had a scholarship and a small living stipend, which if I look at now was some ridiculously small amount, but somehow again, there, you know, I was in, you know, student housing grads, graduate student housing, you know, roommates, all that kind of stuff.
You know, we didn’t spend all that much money. So it was You know, if I had a family would have been very difficult because obviously in school I couldn’t be working but at the time it seemed like it was enough. And then somehow, that works, you know, I would get summer jobs, and then that worked. Now, if I had to pay for school I don’t know how I would have done it. Mhm. [00:15:00]
Noah: Um, were there any cultural norms or like even work norms or anything that like surprised you or you thought was odd? Um, just in the US environment.
Sandy: Yeah, I mean, to me the biggest and maybe this is a little bit stereotypical is that, you know, Canadians in general are much more reserved less, you know, the general approach like hey if I want to get ahead.
You know, the government will help me or my community will help me all, you know, it’s less on sort of the individual to say, Hey, you want to do something, go out there and do it. Right. Don’t be a jerk, but go out and do you want to do? I think just sort of, you know, be around more people where that was sort of more innate.
Like, you want something go out, you know. Be more assertive, forward leaning, proactive, just, so I think that, in some ways, culturally, and just to see that all, all, all around you, [00:16:00] so, and again, that wasn’t a bad thing, that, but I just, you know, I think I, I did definitely.
Noah: Cool. Um, as a Canadian, was it difficult to like, I guess, because you didn’t have the same common background or the same common country as some of the other people, was it difficult to make friends in that sense, not having the same background?
Sandy: I mean, it comes with first of all, again, remember, I was around more international people. So I wasn’t, I wasn’t necessarily trying to like, do it with Americans. Anything I would say is, you know, Canada is very culturally influenced by, by the US, right? So it’s not, you know, anything that is a big trend, a fad, whatever in the US is also shown on, you know, you see it on Canadian TV, it’s in the newspapers, you’re aware of it.
So I think, You know it wasn’t as ingrained in me But it wasn’t like I was coming to this with like a foreign language, right? [00:17:00] Like I knew it seems like trite things, right? I knew what were the popular tv shows It’s not like, you know the first time I watched I don’t know. I What were the shows back then?
It’s like I you know, I lived in boston. I already knew what cheers was right? Like it wasn’t uh, I didn’t have to like figure that out, right? So that definitely helped but You know, you miss a lot. I mean you definitely either the local stuff or You know just some of the history I mean I never On my own, I was interested in history, but I never took an American history course, right?
So like, not like everyone else, I didn’t know the state capitals, right? I mean, just some of that sort of, you know, basic stuff I didn’t know, except for what I sort of picked up because it was on TV.
Noah: All right. And then kind of one final question. Overall, like, how was the experience of immigrating to the U.S. from, or from Canada to the U. S.? Like, how was it as a whole? How did it make you feel, I guess? You know what I’m trying to say?
Sandy: Yeah. No, I mean, again, it [00:18:00] wasn’t, I recognize that a very different approach, but you know, the most people, but it wasn’t, it wasn’t difficult. Um, also again, coming from Canada and being close away in some ways, I can sort of do it in baby steps, right?
Like, so I’m, I wasn’t like some people were like, I made up my mind, but I’m leaving my former life behind. I’m going to go make my way in the U S I did it in stages. Hey. I’m going to go to school. It’s a great school. I’m going to go there. Maybe I’ll come back. Well, no, I’m going to take this other job where I was employed as a Canadian.
Maybe I’ll come back. So it was more in steps. And so it’s more when I sort of look back in retrospect and realize, well, actually, bit by bit, more and more of my life is here. You know, yeah, when it comes time to, well, do you want to get a green card? Sure. Why not? Like, I’m kind of already here. It’s very different than, um, You know, if you were to come to me at 20 and say, make up your mind, where do you want to live?
Um, you know, I don’t know what I would have said probably back then. I would have said no, I want to stay in Canada. And
Noah: [00:19:00] then if any of your kids were ever to be like, I want to be like, obviously there are Canadian citizens already, but if I want to go live in Canada and be more so, I guess, a Canadian citizen than an American citizen, what would, how would you react to that?
Sandy: It’d be, it would be interesting. You know, we’re having this thinking about, Oh, well. Where should they go to school? Should they go to university in Canada, right? But, um, you know, I, I, they’re, I, I feel like their life is here. It would be, you know, it’d be, I see it, it’d be odd to think about them making their way somewhere else in the world.
I feel like this is where they belong, right? Which is an interesting thing for me to think, right? Given that, you know, I had already made that trip and I thought it was the right thing to do. I’m sort of like, not sure it would be the right thing for them, or I’m not sure it’d be the thing I would want them to do. I don’t know.
Noah: All right, cool. Uh, do you have any I mean, I have no more questions. Do you have any other like thoughts or general sentiments about immigrating to the US as a Canadian? [00:20:00]
Sandy: No, no, I think it’s again, I don’t want to pretend this is everyone’s experience. But yeah, for me, it’s been you’re glad you did it, though. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Otherwise, yep.
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