Interview with Guilherme Brito Pereira Veloso
Introduction/Methods
Following the introduction of this project, I contemplated who I knew that immigrated to the United States and would be able to sit down for an interview. First, I thought about the cooks at the restaurant I bartend at, but they speak little English and work twelve hour days, so I didn’t want to intrude on time with their families. I was also unaware of their immigration status and I felt it would be inappropriate to ask, given our relationship. The next place I turned to was my mother’s coworkers. I remember hearing she worked with a woman who immigrated here from Ghana and thought that she would be really interesting to interview. On Thanksgiving day I was drafting up a text on my computer to send in regards to when she would be available.I had a few family members over and I was explaining what I was doing. My cousin’s husband, Gui, was sitting next to me on my left and I asked him if he could read over the text to see if it sounded suitable. As he was reading over it, I was telling the rest of my family about the cool project I was doing for my sociology of immigration class. In the middle of me talking, Gui and my cousin Roman look at each other and start smiling and Gui says, “you know I immigrated here from Brazil right”? My jaw dropped and both my mother and I started laughing and yelling because we had spent so much time thinking about who I could interview. All along it was one of my family members that was currently sitting right next to me. I then realized who better to interview than a new member of the family, who I didn’t know was from a different country! Gui was more than willing to do the interview and we immediately started talking about his experiences in Brazil, but soon had to stop from getting ahead of ourselves. We changed the subject and planned to set up the interview within the following couple of days before I went back to school.
At about 3pm on November 28th, the Sunday after Thanksgiving, I got in my car to drive to Gui and Roman’s house about twenty minutes away to finally do the interview. This was my first time at their house and I was very excited to learn about Gui’s life before I met him. I parked my car and Gui met me at the door. We walked in, grabbed a glass of water, and sat down at a huge table in the dining room. We sat right next to each other, which made the interview feel more like an intimate conversation than a formal interview for a class project.
Before I tell Gui’s story I would like to include a few details about myself and my background as it pertains to the knowledge and experiences that surround sensitive topics such as immigration. I am a twenty-one year old senior at a liberal arts college named James Madison University. I am a communication studies major and sociology minor. I come from an upper-middle class family and have lived in the same community in the suburbs of Washington D.C. my whole life. The classes I have taken in my course of study have really shaped the way I think about the world and communicate with others. These classes have helped me understand that my perspective on the world is a privileged one and they have taught me how to be reflexive. I thoroughly enjoy learning about people and listening to the vastly different experiences that others have lived through. I created a very vague interview guide with almost all open questions because I wanted Gui to tell his own story the way he experienced it. I had a list of guiding questions in case I needed them, but I really wanted the interview to flow organically.
Gui’s Immigration Story
Gui and his father
Guilherme Brito Pereira Veloso, Gui for short, is from Rio De Janeiro, Brazil. Immigration is inherently historical in nature, so first I would like to share Gui’s family history as it pertains to immigration. In the 1800s, there were a lot of investments made by the Brazilian government to bring over families from Europe. The government gave them land to farm and take care of for coming over to their country. This is called a pull factor; something that attracts people to a place. Brazil was pulling people into their country at this time. His father’s side of the family came from Portugal, while his mothers came from north-western countries of Europe, and they ended up settling in Rio in the 1800s and have been there ever since. Gui lived in Rio with his parents and his older brother until he was nine years old. His father worked for the Brazilian government, which was the reason his family made the move to the United States when he was nine. Gui described his father’s job by stating, “My dad worked for the Brazilian government . . . I guess it would be the equivalent to the Department of Defense here in the U.S.”. Gui’s immigration story is unique because he didn’t leave his home country out of necessity, in fact, the U.S. wasn’t even his family’s primary choice when his dad was given the chance to relocate for work, “I actually don’t think that the United States was even my dad’s first choice”. Nonetheless, Gui and his family moved to the United States in 2003 and stayed in the country until he was 18 years old.
Gui describes Rio De Janeiro Brazil as a vibrant, personable, and lively place. He said that the biggest difference he experienced when he moved to the states was the amount of people;
“Rio is a very large city, it’s very busy . . . 24 hours there are things happening. It’s very loud. It’s very warm . . . I think that the biggest difference that you see immediately when you come from Brazil to here, or from here to Brazil, is the amount of people on the streets. Where here, you don’t really see people like walking to places or just sitting down at a bench”.
Another difference between the two countries are the values people hold and the differences in the culture, “I definitely think that
Brazilians tend to be less individualistic . . . and I think that people in Brazil just enjoy being around people a little bit more”. I was curious about how Gui was able to handle such a drastic transition from such a vibrant loud city to a more quiet suburban area, as well as if he thought the transition was easier given his age. Gui recalls, “I remember there was a sense of community where we moved in, and our neighbors came over with cookies”. He said that when they heard that his family was Brazilian the community reached out to a Latin family near them and they came over. The context of reception that Gui experienced seemed to be very welcoming and inclusive; “We felt welcomed and that was really nice”. Although Brazil and the United States were different in many ways, Gui still had a welcoming experience that made it a bit easier for him to integrate into the culture of a new country. He explained that his childhood in Brazil prepared him for his new life in the states, “I think that living in Brazil was really good for me moving here because it made it easy for me to make friends. I’ve never had difficulty making friends, I’ve never had difficulty fitting into places, and I definitely think that a lot of it has to do with my growing up in Brazil”. He was taught some English in school growing up, but not much. He said he picked the language up quickly when he moved here, “Because I moved here so young I remember picking up English extremely fast. Within six months I was already speaking English pretty fluently”. Gui assimilated into the culture fairly well because of his age, community, ability to speak and learn english, and socioeconomic status.
Although Gui assimilated well into his community in the United States, he felt a bit out of place when he would go back home to Brazil to visit.
“So much of my identity was built around living in the United States and when I moved back to Brazil, it was kind of difficult for me to even see myself as Brazilian at times because even though I don’t have American citizenship, it was difficult for me to see myself fitting in 100% with Brazilian people, because I just thought that I was so different from them”.
Gui’s feeling of not fitting in in his home country connects to what I have learned in class about DACA recipients and dreamers. DACA, Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, gives temporary authorization to a select group of people who came to the United States as children to remain in the U.S. with work authorization. DACA was set in motion by President Obama and was called into question by President Trump, but it is ultimately still in place today. Many of the DACA recipients explain how they would feel foreign in their home country because they grew up and were raised in the United States. A lot of dreamers report that they would feel very scared and nervous if they were required to return to their home country. Gui’s feeling of being a bit of an outcast when he returned home to visit, along with the dreamers’ feelings surrounding the fact that they may eventually be forced to return to their home country, demonstrate not only the significant distinction between cultures, but also the impacts that decisions made at the political level can affect people’s sense of self and belonging.
The Journey of Legality
During the years that Gui immigrated with his family, they were in the United States on diplomatic visas. The legal part of his move was all covered because of his dad’s work. Although his first nine years in the United States were a big part of his experience as an immigrant, it wasn’t until he was on his own that it was legally and mentally challenging to stay here in the United States. After graduating high school, Gui decided to attend college at a university back in Brazil. Once he obtained his undergraduate degree, he made the decision to return to the United States. Gui came to the United States on a tourist visa for a few months to research graduate schools. During this time he met my cousin Roman. Gui and Roman started dating shortly after he arrived back in Maryland and Gui ultimately decided he wanted to stay in the U.S. to be with Roman, so they got married. They decided to get married because they wanted to be able to stay together, “I didn’t want to go back to Brazil, he didn’t want me to go back to Brazil either. We knew that basically the only way for me to be able to stay here was for us to get married”. Gui overstayed his tourist visa for a while while he saved up money to pay for all of the processes that come along with applying for citizenship. Since he overstayed his visa, he was then considered to be undocumented. Overstaying a visa is the leading cause of undocumented migrants in the United States. In 2016, approximately 62% of undocumented migrants overstayed their visa. A large amount of visa overstays can be contributed to student visas because they were unsure when it expired, forgot to renew/change the visa, they were still looking for a job post-grad, etc.Other reasons people overstay their visa include being unable to return home due to lack of money/resources, not wanting to return home to avoid unstable or dangerous environments (within their country or from a husband/family member), and wanting to remain in the U.S. to get care for a child. Gui was, like many others, considered undocumented by overstaying his visa due to financial reasons and was in a kind of grey area while he worked towards applying for citizenship and researching his career path.
The few years following his decision to stay in the U.S. were some of the most challenging years of Gui’s life. He had to work to save up money to pay for all of the things he needed to become a citizen. He described the jobs he had while he was considered undocumented:
“it’s easy for you to find a job here while working in a restaurant without things like work permits, but you don’t have any rights. You don’t have the right to overpay or paid time off. . . I believe that if you were scheduled to work for over 40 hours, you are supposed to get pay and a half. That never happened even though I was working 60-70 hours at times per week”.
What Gui is describing can be explained by the segmented labor market theory. This theory states that there are two sectors of jobs in the United States; the primary sector and the secondary sector. The primary sector is described as well paid, stable, high prestige jobs with opportunities to move up the hierarchy. Secondary jobs are poorly paid, low prestige, difficult, and come with minimal opportunities for mobility. The main reason that people are in secondary sector jobs is because they are not U.S. citizens. Gui had no choice but to work in the restaurant industry because of his citizenship status.
Current Events
A big factor in Gui’s journey to citizenship was the Coronavirus. As Gui was saving up to talk with a lawyer and send all of his paperwork in, COVID hit and he lost his job. This was really hard for him because, since he was not a citizen, he could not receive unemployment. Gui and Roman went through a tough time during that year, but eventually Gui found a job at a kebab house, “I stayed for like eight months working there. And again 60-70 hours a week. I was doing night shifts, working till three o’clock in the morning, getting home at four”. Again, Gui worked tirelessly to save up the money to become a citizen and he was finally able to send in all of his papers on October 27th of 2020. Because of COVID, everything was taking a long time to process, so Gui only received his work permit and social security number about two months ago. At this point he had liminal legality, which is an “in-between” status in which immigrants possess social security numbers and work permits, but have no guarantee of eventual citizenship. Gui talks about how it felt to wait that long:
“I had no assurance of anything, if the process was going to be accepted, if it was going to go through, when my papers would arrive. You feel like half a person . . . because, in the eyes of the law, you kind of are”.
COVID also affected Gui in other ways, for example he was worried about his family back home in Brazil, “Especially during the pandemic, you’re worried about things like is my dad gonna die? and I’m not going to be able to go to his funeral?” The implications of current events like the Coronavirus play out in the lives of people such as Gui who had no control over how fast his papers were being processed.
As we learned in class, immigration is a political process. Movement is not free and not all passports are equal. The rules and regulations on immigration constantly change with new political leaders and other current events such as global pandemics. President Trump made it significantly more challenging for anyone to immigrate into the country during his time in office. Although Gui was trying to immigrate during both a global pandemic and the Trump administration’s strict immigration policies, he was eventually able to acquire the necessary documents that he worked so hard for.
Gui recently received his green card, in fact, he pointed over to a ledge across the room and said that it actually might be in the pile of mail sitting over there. Gui explains that the green card means so much to him because he can finally go back and visit his family, “it means that I can finally go back home and spend some time with my dad . . . spend some time with my friends who I miss so much. I’m almost crying just talking about it. To me, that’s the most important thing, feeling like I can leave the terminal”. Gui explained how he felt like he was stuck at a terminal with nowhere to go. He was scared and lonely. He explains how he felt during this whole process:
“The uncertainty of are the papers coming out? When are they coming out? The feeling of not having rights, the feeling that you’re doing something unlawful by working. Which it was. I was doing something unlawful. But necessities. you have to do it”.
The immigration process and the path to citizenship isn’t easy or clear. Sometimes people have to make decisions that include breaking the law or not following all of the rules. Imagine what it is like to live in a constant state of uncertainty just to have what millions of others are born with.
Implications
Although Gui went through all of this in the past couple of years, he recognizes that other immigrants have it much harder than he did:
“My story is an extremely privileged one from birth. And my immigration story is an extremely privileged one. And that doesn’t mean that it wasn’t hard. There was a lot of hardships, there was a lot of insecurity, there was a lot of abuse at times because of my undocumented status, but it’s basically the best scenario if you’re immigrating under these circumstances”.
We talked for a while about all of the people in the world who had no choice but to come to the United States, legally or illegally, for the safety and future of their families. We both started to tear up thinking about all of the people who suffer every day and all they want is to provide a safe place for themselves and their children. Gui shares this beautiful metaphor:
“I recently saw a map where they tracked an Eagle. They put a chip on an eagle and they tracked it for 20 years until it died. And you could see all the places that it flew to. All over Africa, the Middle East, all the way to Russia, all through Europe. It’s part of our instincts sometimes to move and get to know the world and it’s our instinct to look for better opportunities”.
We as people aren’t meant to stay within the manmade, arbitrary borders that our governments deem certain and necessary. As Gui beautifully stated, “immigrating is part of the human spirit”.
This conversation sheds light on the fact that all of the rules and laws surrounding immigration, and the sheer fact that millions of people live in uncertainty and abuse every single day because of these rules, are not natural or inevitable. In Gui’s words,
“Immigration is now at the hands of the coyotes. It’s in the hands of people who do not want the best neither for the immigrant nor for the country. And it leaves so many people just completely disenfranchised, with no rights, no voice, no way out almost. Because it’s its own prison in a way”.
My interview with Gui shows how every immigrant has their own story. It is disheartening to see all immigrants being grouped into one in the media and public sphere. Each person is unique in their journeys and struggles. I hope that by telling Gui’s story and sharing his lived experiences that we can all take a step back and realize where we stand in the world. For those of us that were born with citizenship and the rights that come with it, we are lucky. We can learn so much from those with differing backgrounds from our own, so I encourage people to listen, talk with, fight for, and share the stories and knowledge of the immigrants in your lives.
Okay so we’ll start off with your name and where you’re from.
Gui 0:10
Alright, my full name is Guilherme Brito Pereira Veloso and I’m from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
Quinn 0:16
Awesome. And what was your experience like growing up? What’s your family like? Just start off from there all the background.
Gui 0:23
Um, I lived in Rio till I was about nine. My family. . . Well, growing up, it was me, my brother, an older brother, who’s eight years older than me, my mom and my dad. And we lived pretty close to my dad’s family, but my mom’s family was very far away. I don’t know how many. . .It’s something like 2700 kilometers away. But we would still see them once a year. For summer we were usually go up there in Brazil summer’s during November, December, January. So we go there for like Christmas and New Year’s and spend some time with my mom’s family. We lived in an apartment in Rio. My dad worked for the Brazilian . . . I guess it would be the equivalent here would be the Department of Defense. In Rio, usually people would be living in Brasilia, but they have a office in Rio as well. So we lived there, which is where my dad’s family’s from.
Quinn 1:33
They’re all from Brazil? Like the whole family forever?
Gui 1:37
No. So my family from my dad’s side is second generation Brazilian. My grandfather moved from Portugal, my grandmother came from like, so actually my grandmother’s part of the family . . . they’re from Germany, Switzerland, but it was before the territories were unified. They moved to Brazil in the 1800s. So I guess they’re like third generation or something. So I guess, the more common I think it would call it Prussia, really, because of the time it wasn’t Germany, it wasn’t Switzerland, it was just like, separate little feudal states or whatever.
Quinn 2:18
And you know why they moved to Brazil?
Gui 2:21
In the 1800s, there was a lot of investment made by the Brazilian government to bring in families from Europe and give them land basically to take care of, farm. . . kind of like the Oregon Trail, you know, where they took Americans to the west side and gave them land and stuff. Brazil was doing that to a lot of European nations. So people came over from Holland, Switzerland, Italy, Germany, France, I guess some people came over from England as well, but smaller numbers, a lot of people came from Japan. So they came to, you know, start a new life. And were given plots of land by by the government stuff.
Quinn 3:09
That’s interesting.
Gui 3:10
Yeah.
Quinn 3:11
And so, when you were growing up in Brazil, like was there any experiences or customs that are different from when you moved here? Like, what was? What’s it like living in Brazil? What’s your experiences there?
Gui 3:26
Um, it’s definitely very different, especially because I’m used to living in Brazil in like, the heart of the city, Rio is a very large city, it’s very busy. It’s 24 hours there are things happening. It’s very loud. It’s very warm, year round, it’s extremely hot. So definitely, like the way that people access the city is different. There’s a lot more . . . I think that the biggest, like difference that you see immediately when you come from Brazil to here, or from here to Brazil, is the amount of people on the streets. Where here, you don’t really see people like walking to places or just like sitting down at a bench
Quinn 4:09
In Virginia?
Gui 4:10
Yeah, in Virginia, sometimes you do in DC, but even like, when you go to Rio, the sheer amount of people is something that takes you back. And there is like, I remember, we moved to Maryland first. So I moved to Maryland when I was nine. And because my dad was working for . . . he had been transferred to work at the embassy in DC. So I lived in Maryland from the age of nine to 18. And even then, like I remember there was a sense of community where we moved in and our neighbors came over with like cookies and you know, when they heard that we were Brazilian, they tried to reach out to other like there was another Latin family near us, so they reached out to them and they came over so you know, we felt welcomed and that was really nice. But at the same time there is a little bit more of isolation. People keep their lives very private in the United States where in Brazil it’s not very much like that. And you know, some people prefer it that way. Some people prefer the other way. But there is a little bit more of . . . things are, are nicer here. They’re like, more respectful in a way and more like orderly and organized, even in interactions, usually, wherein in Brazil, everything’s more personable in a way.
Quinn 5:48
So do you think the age you came over here affected how you like adapted to coming to a new country?
Gui 5:56
Definitely. I mean, yeah, definitely. Because I moved here so young, and I remember picking up English extremely fast. Within six months I was already speaking English pretty fluently.
Quinn 6:15
Is there any English in Brazil like that you were around?
Gui 6:19
So we do take English in Brazil in school. So I had been studying English in school, even at the age of nine. Most schools in Brazil will teach you English at first and then English and Spanish later, or I say most schools but most private schools, I guess, because I did go to private school in Brazil. But my English was not like any thing I remember. This is like something that I clearly remember was that one of the only phrases in English that I really knew how to say was, I want a black and white hamster, because I really wanted for my parents to give me a hamster when we moved here. So that was the first and my parents hired like an English tutor for us, when they knew that we were moving. But it was for a very short amount of time. Like, it really wasn’t enough for me to pick things up. My brother. On the other hand, he’s eight years older than me, and he had a lot more time studying English. So he knew the basics of it. But even for him, it was like, it’s different when you like, are studying language in a country and then you move in and you have to, like, speak with people who are fluent.
Quinn 7:25
I couldn’t imagine, yeah. So do you? Do you speak Portuguese or Spanish?
Gui 7:28
I speak both.
Quinn 7:29
Oh Okay.
Gui 7:30
yeah, I speak both. But it was because, um, so in Brazil, Portuguese is our first language. And then, you know, some people will learn Spanish, Spanish is very, very similar to Portuguese. I also ended up living in Uruguay for two years. So I did pick up some Spanish while I was there. And then, you know, moving back here, again, I working at restaurants, you work with a lot of people from Latin America, and that really helped with my Spanish.
Quinn 8:01
So do you think there’s different values that like Brazilian people, like put value on more? Or, like, what’s the differences would you say and like the, the traditions and like the values.
Gui 8:16
Um, I definitely think that Brazilians tend to be less individualistic. So we tend to think more. And I don’t mean this in in a bad way, or a positive way. It’s just the there’s a thought process that is more communal, and less, and even like, it’s less focused on the family unit, and more focused on the community. Even the family unit is wider. So when we think of family unit, it’s not usually just mom, dad and siblings, it’s aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins, cousins twice removed, you know, family that isn’t family, it’s people who live in the same building as you there’s definitely there, there’s a more I guess there are closer bonds, in a way between people. And I think that people in Brazil just enjoy being around people a little bit more. And I mean, that’s a generalization that I really can’t say about all people from the United States. But I do think that like life in the United States usually tends to keep you more to like, smaller groups and talking within like people that you already know, doing things in people’s houses instead of going to public places. In Brazil, there’s just this . . . growing social interactions, where you have them all the time with different people random people.
Quinn 10:00
Do you think that helped you moving here, having that? Or do you think it isolated you?
Gui 10:05
I think it helped me because I’m, I’m very extroverted.
Quinn 10:08
Yeah.
Gui 10:09
And it’s definitely because of my growing up in Brazil, where like, I’m very extroverted here, but in Brazil, I’m considered introverted.
Quinn 10:17
Wow.
Gui 10:19
So I actually think that, you know, living in Brazil was really good for me moving here, because it made it just easy for me to make friends, like I’ve never had difficulty making friends, I’ve never had difficulty fitting into places. And I definitely think that a lot of it has to do with my growing up in Brazil. But then the time that I spent here kind of made it difficult for me in Brazil. When I went back, especially because I spent so much time here, and I lived here from nine to 18. So much of my identity was built around, you know, living in the United States. And when I moved back to Brazil, it kind of was difficult for me to even see myself as Brazilian at times. Because even though, like I don’t have American citizenship, it was difficult for me to see myself fitting in 100% with Brazilian people, because I just thought that I was so different from them. But that was an initial, like thing in my mind. And it was like, it went away. Eventually. I lived there for another five years, and I did college there and stuff. And that was also very transformative for me. It changed the way I see things a lot.
Quinn 11:27
So can we go just like chronologically from when and why you left Brazil? It’s because your dad’s work, right?
Gui 11:34
Yes. So I was born in Brazil, I lived there till nine. And then at nine years old, my dad was transferred to Washington, DC, to work at the Brazilian embassy. So we moved to, you know, the DC suburbs, we were living in Maryland.
Quinn 11:52
Had you guys previously thought about ever moving to United States, were there any push factors that were pushing you out of Brazil or you guys it was mainly just that reason?
Gui 12:00
It was just that reason, there was nothing really pushing us out of there. We I don’t think that we ever really thought of it. I actually I don’t think that the United States was even my dad’s first choice. I believe he wanted to go to Canada instead. And before that my dad had done like work trips, but it was never for very long. So we never went with him. And they were all stuck to Latin America. So my dad had gone to like Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, things like that for two months, three months, six months interval at the most. And because the the time was so short, we, like my parents didn’t see a reason why, you know, uproot us from school to go and spend six months in a different country. But when he was transferred to the United States, it was for us to spend three years here.
Quinn 12:48
and what year was that?
Gui 12:49
That was 2003.
Quinn 12:51
Okay.
Gui 12:52
So 2003, we initially moved here to spend three years, and three years turned into five.
Quinn 12:58
And it was easy for us to move because it was work. So you didn’t have any, like, legally, you didn’t have to have anything?
Gui 13:05
No, everything was through work. We were moving. We were here on a diplomatic visa, the Brazilian government paid for everything. It was, I mean, I was also a little too young to remember. But I do remember, like some stuff. I remember there was like friction between my parents. But it was mostly just because of like, my mom not necessarily wanting to come and you know, missing her family and things like that. And the uncertainty of it all. Neither of my parents speak English. So for them, it was, you know, probably much more traumatic than it was for me and my brother, who, you know, were children and going to school, it was easy for us to make friends and well for my mom, it was a lot, a lot a lot harder. She was always very close to her family. And I remember my mom spending like four or five hours on the phone every day with her sisters back in Brazil. But like in terms of money, and like in terms of documentation, it wasn’t a problem because of the conditions that we’re moving here with, which was not just for work, but it was for diplomatic work. So even that, like we had certain rights and privileges that someone who works for like IBM, for example, wouldn’t have. So, you know, we moved here to originally spend three years
Quinn 14:37
To Maryland. . .
Gui 14:37
Maryland. and three years turned into five. My dad ended up staying at the Brazilian embassy for five years. And then he had another job opportunity and this time he really wanted to go to Canada. A friend of his was going to Canada and possibly they were opening up a position there for him. I don’t even know where probably like Montreal or something. And but last minute, they told him that they were changing the consulate around. And they asked him if he didn’t want to stay in DC for the consulate. And in the end, he ended up deciding to stay here mostly for us. He didn’t want to take us out of . . .
Quinn 15:22
Uproot again?
Gui 15:22
Yeah, because I, it was really mostly for me because I had adapted to life here really, really well. Especially at the five year point. By then, like, I was 100% fluent in English. I mean, I only went to Esol classes for a year, I think. And I was already in, I don’t know, middle to high school, possibly.
Quinn 15:46
Public high school here?
Gui 15:50
Public. Yeah, public. And he just didn’t want to do that to us. So he ended up transferring to the consulate. And he stayed at the consulate for four years. And the reason why we decided to leave was because my mom had passed away while we were living here. Yeah. So while my dad was on a trip to Brazil, visiting family, my mom passed away of a brain aneurysm in like the middle of the night.
Quinn 16:13
Im so sorry.
Gui 16:14
Yeah.
Quinn 16:15
Thats awful.
Gui 16:15
Yeah. And I was 16, my brother was eight years older than me. So math. And we, like I went to Brazil, and I spent a couple months there with my dad. My dad’s work really helped us out with everything. I mean, the consulate, really. . . it ended up all falling into the shoulders of the consulate and my brother, making sure that the autopsy was done and shipping the body to Brazil, and getting funeral arrangements done and paying for everything. And it was a lot of work. And I remember it took, like, two weeks or something for her body to get to Brazil. And anyways . . .
Quinn 16:57
You were in high school at this point?
Gui 16:59
I was in high school. Yes.
Quinn 16:59
So you hadn’t graduated yet . . . when you went back to Brazil?
Gui 17:03
I went back to Brazil only for like two months
Quinn 17:05
Oh okay
Gui 17:05
At this point. So I like spent two months there. And, you know, I had spoken to all my teachers and stuff, and they all understood that I needed like, this time by myself. And I came back and I did like final exams and stuff. but I hadn’t, I did not finish high school here. Because my mom passed away in 2010. And then, end of 2011, we, we had already decided that we didn’t want to stay. I personally didn’t want to stay anymore. I was I just wanted like change. I wanted to I really wanted to go back to Brazil, I really wanted to, I saw how difficult it was for my dad to deal with my mom’s passing and being far away from family. And it wasn’t just my mom’s passing. I mean, I remember my dad saying that, every time that he would go to Brazil, someone would die. And it was like this, this thing that you carry that he carries with him to this day, like he would go to Brazil and a brother would die, he would go to Brazil and an aunt would die or a sister or you know, at the end was my mom. So I saw that like it was . . . he was stressed out he was you know, sad and angry and there was just like no joy him. His boss was a complete asshole at the time because they changed the ambassador. And so I talked to him and I was like, Okay, let’s just forget everything here and move back to Brazil. And so that was originally the plan. But then his job offered him a position in Uruguay. And Uruguay was really enticing to Him, not to me. But to him, it was really enticing because we would be getting paid more, he would be getting paid more, I wouldn’t be working, he would be getting paid more, we’d be really close to home. And Uruguay is considered or that specific place in Uraguay that we went to because we didn’t move to Montevideo the capital we moved to. . . he was working at a consulate that was in the border between Uruguay and Brazil, very small town in the middle of nowhere, like closest airport was eight hours away. And because of that it was considered a Class C post. Because in Brazil, we have that. When if you work for where my dad works with diplomacy, the posts that you can go to they have a class system. So a b, c, d, e and it all depends on infrastructure, education, security, things like that. And the lower the class is the more you get paid and the more benefits you have. So my dad had like a really nice bump in his pay and he had like every three months he could take 15 days off. And one month off every year. So he had like. So he had three 15 Day vacations and one 45 day vacation every year for living there. So we so for him, it was it was great would be closer to home and everything. And yeah, I really didn’t want to go. But I accepted it in the end, I really didn’t have much to say about it. And we moved to Uruguay in November 13 2011. I remember because it was the day of my dad’s birthday that year. So we moved there. And we spent two years in Uruguay, which was rough, because it was such a small town, it was so like, completely different from what I was used to. I felt really isolated. I didn’t I mean, I made I made friends. But at the same time, I was really unhappy there. And once the two years were done, we moved to Rio, and my dad worked for six more months. And then he retired. And he moved to the town where he lives now, which she lives in a town in the mountains called New Freiburg. And I was I stayed living in Rio because I was going to college there at the time. So I finished college in 2018. And in 2019, February 2019, I moved here.
Quinn 21:29
Why?
Gui 21:32
Originally, I came to spend three to four months because I was dating Roman, your cousin. And I wanted to look for master’s programs in United States. I finished my undergrad in Brazil, and I wanted to do a master’s in museum studies or some sort of curating studies, or curatorial studies. And I came here to spend, you know, a little bit of time just to figure that out. But in the end, I decided to stay mostly to be with Roman and I wanna say like two and a half months into my stay here we decided to get married
Quinn 22:21
for like legal citizenship reasons type thing? For you to be able to stay in the states?
Gui 22:27
For us to stay together. Um, I didn’t want to go back to Brazil, he didn’t want me to go back to Brazil either. And we knew that basically the only way for me to be able to stay here was for us to get married.
Quinn 22:47
So can you tell me a little bit about that process? How hard or easy it was? How do you think it was different than like, maybe going about it a different way?
Gui 22:58
Um, I definitely think it’s the easiest way for you to do it. I honestly don’t, for there are some because the United States has different rules and regulations depending on where you’re from. So for people from Latin America, it’s difficult to immigrate here legally. And basically, unless you have a job that is sending you here, or you have you know, someone that you’re going to marry, or you’re born here really, there aren’t many different ways of doing it.
Quinn 23:38
Right.
Gui 23:39
I know that my brother’s a US citizen. So when we moved to Uruguay, my brother decided to stay here. And he stayed here working. He currently lives in Maryland. But he also got married and also got his citizenship. And you technically Can I could technically get citizenship through him.
Quinn 24:02
Oh, really?
Gui 24:03
Yes. Because you can give citizenship to your family members. So he, he could give it to, theoretically, to me and my dad. But it would take something like 10 years for the process to go through. And the other way for me to immigrate here was through school, you know, if I got accepted into a master’s program, they would give me a student visa for me to stay here. And that is also not that difficult of a process. I mean, it’s as difficult of a process as it is to get accepted into university. Once you get accepted, they usually figure most things out as long as you don’t have, you know, any criminal background or if you haven’t been caught by immigration or immigrated here illegally before.
Quinn 24:56
But that’s only temporary right? Because it’s just university would just be going here. then have to go back.
Gui 25:00
Exactly, it’s temporary, you can’t work while you’re on a student visa. So it does like make it more difficult because of access to money, you know, for you to be able to, you would need to have money in your home country enough for them to pay for your rent, pay for your school pay for your food. Because, you know, even then unless you get a scholarship, you’re going to have to pay for the master’s degree as well. And I think that money is a big thing. It’s not cheap to immigrate here, it’s very expensive. In total, I think I spent around six to seven grand in this whole process, just immigration fees was like three grand, and then I had to spend, you know, money getting a, I had to get a, a checkup with a doctor, they do like a specific checkup for immigration statuses where they make sure that you don’t have any infectious diseases. And that was like 600 bucks. Because I don’t have insurance. And even maybe if I had insurance . . . I don’t know how that would work. And then getting all my documents translated. And that was another like 400 bucks, and the lawyer to do everything because I didn’t trust myself to do everything. It’s you know, legal jargon and a lot of paperwork. And they are very nitpicky with things. And if you know you follow one thing wrong, they could potentially throw away your whole case, and all the money that you’ve spent will be gone down the drain. So I paid a lawyer to do everything.
Quinn 26:34
And where are we getting this money from? Did you ever have a job when you were from nine to 18? Here or when you went back to Uruguay or Rio?
Gui 26:41
I didn’t work well, I was living here
Quinn 26:44
because you couldn’t or because you were young and you just didn’t?
Gui 26:46
because I just didn’t. So while I was living here, I just didn’t work. When I moved to Uruguay sort of working as an English teacher. So in Uruguay I was working as an English teacher. In Brazil I also stayed working as an English teacher, I stayed at the same chain of schools. So I worked with them for like three years. Then I quit. And I started working for the Energy Industries Council, which is a British Energy Organization. It’s part of the British government. And they work with like, companies that are in the energy field. So any company that works with oil and gas, renewable energies, anything like that they work with them with networking, and things like that. And they have an office in Rio, so I worked with them for a while, not for too long, because it was really miserable there. And then it’s sort of my work as an art curator in Rio, which really didn’t give me that much money. But it was something that I did for a year. I mean, a lot of the money that I spent though, was money that I had from like, inheritance or family. I inherited an apartment when I was very young, from one of my dad’s bosses, really, she loved us and her son passed away in like the 70s. And my dad named me after her son, because he was my dad’s best friend. And she was a very, very, very wealthy French lady who lived in Brazil. And when she passed away in 2001, that was the reason why my dad decided to start taking international jobs. He didn’t want to leave Brazil for very long while she was still alive. Because they just had a very deep connection. And, but anyways, I was born, she loved her family, she loved me from the beginning, she was very happy that my dad gave me the name Guilherme which was her son’s name. And she decided to give me an apartment. And while I was in college, I would work and stuff. But I also had this apartment that was rented. So I would get monthly money from the apartment. And I would try to save up as much as I could and work to like, you know, enjoy life. And I rented another apartment with three of my friends. So I was paying very little rent every month. And I was able to amass some money. Enough to get me here and to like spend the four months, but what ended up happening was we postponed sending in all of our information to USCIS because I needed to amass, I had the money that I had I basically spent to get here and to stay here. And it was the money that I had to like, allow me to live for a while it wasn’t enough money to pay for everything. So we waited and I got jobs at restaurants.
Quinn 29:59
here?
Gui 30:00
here.
Quinn 30:00
was that easy? Or was that hard? without citizenship..
Gui 30:04
It was surprisingly really easy. It was very, very easy.
Quinn 30:07
Really? Interesting.
Gui 30:08
Um, yeah. I never had difficulty finding a job here in restaurants.
Quinn 30:15
So at this point, what was keeping you here? Was it a tourist visa?
Gui 30:20
Yes, tourist visa. Because originally I was here. So originally, my first visa to the united states was a diplomatic visa. But once we left, that visa was cancelled. And we got tourist visas, because we would come here every once in a while to visit my brother. That’s how I met Roman I was here visiting my brother.
Quinn 30:38
And how long did each of these trips were you allowed to stay? Did you go back on time? And do you have to renew it whenever you want to come back?
Gui 30:46
So the tourist visa that we had, I think I’ve had two in total, they last for five to 10 years, the second one that I got lasts for 10 years. But they allow you to stay for six months. So I came and I was allowed to stay for six months. So I came here February 4, that meant that August 4, I think, I had to leave and go back to Brazil, and then wait, you know, six months or whatever, before I could come into the United States again. Since I decided to get married with Roman and stay here. I overstayed my visa. And I knew that that was not going to affect our, our petition for permanent residency, because I googled it and stuff. And I talked to my lawyer. And she mentioned that as long as you come into the United States lawfully, it usually doesn’t pose a problem. And it didn’t.
Quinn 31:49
That’s good
Gui 31:49
Yeah, it wasn’t a problem and everything was accepted. I think my green card is possibly at my lawyer’s house currently. If not here, might be that actually.
Quinn 32:02
Good timing
Gui 32:02
Yeah. And that didn’t pose a problem. But I did overstay my visa for a while, because I was working at a restaurant to you know, trying to save up money. And it’s easy for you to find a job here while working in a restaurant without like, work permit, but you don’t have any rights.
Quinn 32:31
Right
Gui 32:32
Right. So you don’t have like the right to overpay or paid time off. Or you know. . . Like, I believe that if you were scheduled to work for over 40 hours, you are supposed to get pay and a half. That never happened even though I was working 60-70 hours at times per week. So but you know, I was, it was whatever I liked my co workers, I was just trying to save up the money. And I have a pretty good work ethic. So I just looked it up and did it. And I was able to save up the money to do everything. And March 13 of 2020. Me and Roman, or sorry, I think it was March 15 or 16th. I honestly can’t remember the exact date right now. Roman and I got married. And that was right before COVID hit. It was literally the weekend before COVID hit. And we got married in a really small ceremony. And it was it was a very. . . it was an emergency situation almost because it was like, Well, if we don’t do this now, I don’t know how long we’re gonna have to wait. But what ended up happening was, you know, I lost my job at the restaurant because the restaurant closed down because of the quarantine. And I spent and Roman also lost his job. And we spent like four months unemployed and all my savings that I had saved up to pay for the immigration process I had to spend.
Quinn 34:02
And obviously you can’t get unemployment because you’re not . . .
Gui 34:05
Exactly. Because I’m not a citizen. So, it fully drained out all my funds. I did not have you know, the money to do things. Roman’s unemployment was all going to paying the bills and making sure we were getting fed and you know, paying off his car bill and things like that. And in June or July, I got another job at another restaurant. Because I was like okay, well, I don’t have the privilege of staying home right now. I have to find a job and you know, things were looking a little bit better back then. So I was like okay, I’ll just find a job and I started working at a kebab house. And I stayed there for like eight months working there. And again 60-70 hours a week. I was doing like night shifts, working till three o’clock in the morning, getting home at four. But I was able to save up money. And I also asked for a small loan from my brother. And we sent in all of our papers on October 27, or we sent them in early October, and they received them October 27.
Quinn 35:19
Of 2020?
Gui 35:20
2020. Yes. And I ya know, started paying my lawyer and sent all of that in. And theoretically, the timeline that they give you is that within three to six months, you’re supposed to receive your work permit and social security number. If you know everything’s approved, but because of COVID, and you know, restrictions and quarantining and things like that everything was really, really late. So actually only received my work permit and social security number like two months ago.
Quinn 35:58
wow
Gui 35:59
Yeah. And, you know, for up till two months ago, it was basically. . . I had no assurance of anything, if the process was going to be accepted, if it was going to go through, when it was going to arrive when my papers would arrive.
Quinn 36:15
How’s that feel? Like . . .
Gui 36:18
Oh awful, awful. Yeah. Like, you feel like half a person.
Quinn 36:22
Right.
Gui 36:23
Because, you know, in the eyes of the law, you kind of are.
Quinn 36:26
Yeah
Gui 36:26
You don’t have . . . you feel like, um, I don’t know, you’ve probably never seen the movie terminal with Tom Hanks. But it’s a movie where Tom Hanks is flying. And he’s from a fictional country. And he’s flying, but it’s based on a real story. He’s flying into New York. And while on the plane, the country that he’s from, there’s like a coup, and the country doesn’t exist anymore. So his passport doesn’t work. And he’s stuck in the airport terminal for six, seven months, I honestly don’t remember how long with no money, no way to work, he can’t leave the airport because he can’t step on U.S. grounds. He has no rights. He doesn’t have a home country anymore. And in a lot of ways, that’s how I felt. I felt stuck at that terminal. And yeah, it’s, it’s honestly a great movie I used to watch it a lot with my mom. But like in that movie, he does what he can to eat. And to make money. He he grabs like shopping carts or the like luggage carts from around the store. Because he doesn’t speak English either. I speak English at least. He noticed that when you return the carts, they give you 25 cents. So he would start getting all the carts and turning them in to get those 25 cents to be able to buy like a hamburger from Burger King. Before that, he would be like asking for ketchup packets and crackers, to like just put ketchup on crackers, and that that’s what he would eat. And of course, like, that’s not my experience. I lived in a house, I had some sort of support, you know, my brother was close by I had food. But like emotionally and mentally I do empathize with him a lot, because that is how I felt at a lot of times.
Quinn 38:19
So what does a green card mean to you?
Gui 38:22
Well, most importantly, it means that I can go visit my family. Because during the whole process of you know, asking for this, you are not allowed out of the country. Even if I hadn’t overstayed my visa, I wouldn’t be allowed out of the country during this whole process no matter how long it takes. So for me like my green card arriving, it means that I can finally go back home and spend some time with my dad spend some time with my friends who I miss so much. I’m almost crying just talking about it. Like to me that’s that’s the most important thing is like feeling like I can leave the terminal.
Quinn 39:00
So have you been back?
Gui 39:01
Not yet.
Quinn 39:02
It just got here
Gui 39:03
Yeah. Potentially just got here. Um, it might not be that um, I honestly think that they sent it to my lawyers house instead because that’s what they did with my Social Security or with my work permit. But I did log into USCIS the the account, and they did say that it has already arrived.
Quinn 39:20
Awesome and we’re planning a trip.
Gui 39:23
Yes. we’re planning a trip, we’re going to go to Brazil. I honestly can’t wait to go back and spend some time there. But you know, I also need to think of finances and stuff I’m working currently. But I would like to go sometime early 2022.
Quinn 39:41
So where do you work now?
Gui 39:42
Right now I have two jobs. I work as an admin assistant remotely for a pediatrics office. And I also work at a restaurant nearby at night
Quinn 39:53
Are you a server or a bartender?
Gui 39:56
It’s not a sit down restaurant. It’s a kind of . . . It’s called pokey works. It’s a Chipotle style restaurant with Japanese food pokey bowls. And we also have like a ghost kitchen. So it’s mostly just like making the plates, being a cash regi . . ., not being a cash register, but attending the cash register, things like that.
Quinn 40:17
And for those two jobs was it the same thing? was it easy just . . . like paperwork wise, like, since you hadn’t had the Green Card yet and stuff like that? Was there any. . .
Gui 40:28
I did not have the green card yet, but I did have. . . So for my job at poker works, I had already, my work permit had already arrived, I just started there like two weeks ago. So I already had my work permit and social security number, so it was perfectly fine. My other job, I started off as, I still am just a contractor. And it was through a friend of mine recommended me to her because she was looking for an assistant, and she was more than happy to, you know, Venmo me my paycheck for the time being until my paperwork arrived. She was, you know, wonderful boss, very gracious I’m thankful for her. And, I mean, honestly, with that remote job, it was luck for me to find someone who was willing to do what she could to help me out. In restaurants, not so much. I mean, the truth is, restaurants in United States are dependent on illegal or undocumented workers.
Quinn 41:34
That they can exploit.
Gui 41:35
That they can exploit. And that they can, you know, not have, that they don’t have to pay. Overtime that they don’t have to pay, you know, like, right now I’m getting paid $13 an hour at pokey works. My first job at a restaurant, I was only getting paid nine, like, and that’s already a lot, you know, because I wasn’t working as a server. I was also, I was always working at the cash register. But you know, servers don’t get anything, they only get tips. That’s like the easiest way for you to get a job in United States as an undocumented worker. And it’s, you don’t know how much your paycheck is going to be. Because some nights might be good, some might be terrible, you might get nothing some nights. And I mean, the privilege that I have of having a safety net in Brazil, having, you know, knowing that I can, if everything goes wrong, I have a life that’s very privileged in Brazil, and that I have a brother who’s close by who has, you know, the money to lend me in case I need anything, even though I personally didn’t want to ask, and I still don’t, and I, I only asked for a small loan to like, help me with my stuff, because all the money that I had saved up had been completely eradicated from this world. But you know, while working at these restaurants, all of the people that I worked with were mothers and fathers, and they were working, having to keep you know, two children fed, paying the bills, sending money back to their home countries to make sure that their mothers and fathers are being fed and have their a roof over their head. It’s it’s a lot of work, and they all pay tax. I haven’t met a single undocumented worker in United States who does not pay tax, because in their mind, and this is a lie. Like this is a lie that the US government doesn’t tell like doesn’t, in their mind, paying the tax will be like in the future a good thing for them to possibly get documented. But it’s the US government is not going to do that. No matter what basically, if you are an if you arrive into the United States in an unlawful way, you’re not going to get citizenship, you’re not going to get documents you’re not that’s just kind of the truth. Your child might, you know, if you have a child here, or if they come here young enough, they might, but if you are, you know, over 18, you’ve arrived in the United States in an unlawful way, it doesn’t matter how much in taxes you pay, you’re never going to be a full person in this country.
Quinn 44:05
So the most challenging aspect like mentally . .. what do you think that was of the whole immigration process?
Gui 44:13
Um, being far away from like my support system? The uncertainty of are the papers coming out? When are they coming out the feeling of you know, not having rights, the feeling of and also like the feeling of that you’re doing something unlawful by working. That like you’re doing . . . which it was. I was doing something unlawful. But necessities you have to do it. It’s either that or what the fuck. You know?
Quinn 44:53
I couldn’t even imagine like having, you know, like, No, I don’t know what that would do to my head. So looking back, would you do anything differently? Do you regret anything? Are you . . . do you think all of this was worth it?
Gui 45:08
I mean, sitting here now and you know, knowing that my green card was approved, and I was currently accepted to do my master’s in San Francisco for museum studies, and, you know, things are working out and I don’t regret it. I through a lot of times I did. through a lot of times, you know, I would think back like, is this the right thing for me to be doing? Especially during the pandemic, like you’re worried about, like, is my dad gonna die? and I’m not going to be able to go to his funeral? But none of that happened. So you know, thankfully.
Quinn 45:56
Yeah. I mean, I can imagine because we’re family now, we care about you. And thank you for telling me your story. And I just want to hear everything about you. Because you’re so interesting to me.
Gui 46:07
Thank you.
Quinn 46:08
Yeah. Every person is different, like I’ve met a lot of immigrants I work with, like, in the restaurant industry, I’m a bartender, and all my friends now that are the cooks fled from like, Guatemala, or El Salvador. And just like hearing a different perspective of what you’ve been through, is not taking away from yours, because theirs might have been harder. But it’s just telling a different story. And I think that you guys. . . or people that haven’t, like fled, don’t get that much recognition of how hard it is mentally. So thank you for sharing that with me. And I’m so glad that you’re having this talk. But is there anything else you wanted to add about anything?
Gui 47:02
Um, I’m an empath so seeing you cry is making me want to cry. But I think that like, my story is an extremely privileged one, from birth, and in my immigration story is an extremely privileged one. And that doesn’t mean that it wasn’t hard. There was a lot of hardships, there was a lot of insecurity, there was a lot of abuse at times because of my undocumented status, and but like that’s, it’s basically the best scenario, if you’re immigrating under these circumstances. If you look at like, what people who are coming here from El Salvador who are fleeing gang violence, or trying to give their children a better life, who don’t see an exit for themselves in their home country, because they have a newborn child, and they’re worried that they’re going to get into gang violence, or that they’re going to die before reaching the age of whatever, 12, whose family are hungry, and someone told them like, okay, if you go to United States, I can take you, I can take you there for no charge right now. And you’ll work at a restaurant, this is how much you’re going to work, this how much you’re going to make, you’re going to give me this much until you paid this much. But you’re going to have a good like your, your child is going to have an education, you’re going to be able to send some money back home, to make sure that your parents are being fed. Like those stories are truly heartbreaking.
Quinn 48:57
Yeah. It’s hard to think about people who are against all of this stuff, when if you were put in the same position for your child, you would do that in a second to take them away from the gang violence and all that stuff, whether it’s legal or not. It’s at this point, it’s a moral obligation. It’s not just this is illegal in the United States. I can’t do it. So I’m not going to.
Gui 49:17
And there’s also a lot of, I honestly think that immigrating is part of the human spirit. I currently saw a map where they tracked an Eagle, so for 20 years, they put a chip on an eagle and they tracked it for 20 years until it died. And you could see all the places that it flew to. All over Africa, the Middle East, all the way to Russia, all through Europe. It’s part of our instincts sometimes to move and get to know the world and it’s our instincts to look for better opportunities. And there’s a lot of fear mongering. There’s a lot of people trying to make it seem like it’s something that it isn’t. Because they’re, you know, there are some problems with immigration as well. But the thing is, at the end of the day, the way that it’s currently being dealt with in the United States, immigration is now at the hands of the coyotes. It’s in the hands of people who do not want the best neither for the immigrant nor for the country. And it leaves so many people just completely disenfranchised, with no rights, no voice, no way out almost. Because it’s its own prison in a way
Quinn 50:44
It is. And I’m a very pessimistic person. And it’s like hearing all this and like learning about all of this makes me so like, I feel like nothing can be done to fix it, because it’s so bad, the way we deal with it. But like, you were saying, we’re human, we’re meant to like, like go places, and the fact that like, the borders are like a manmade borders
Gui 51:05
They are.
Quinn 51:06
It’s just, it’s crazy to me that we’re living like this and that we can’t like change it. Right now.
Gui 51:11
They’re manmade, and they’re completely arbitrary. If you look at, like, the whole process of the expansion of the United States, you know, a lot of the territory that Mexican immigrants are migrating to use to be Mexican
Quinn 51:26
Right
Gui 51:27
This is territory that used to be theirs. But you know, because of deals made by high profile figures, by politicians, by people who do not live in those areas, mostly, this land was suddenly not theirs anymore, it becomes part of a different country. If you look at the process of . . . if you look at Africa, right, the way that the countries in Africa were divvied up, it was all through colonization, none of it was decided by the people who live in those countries. European nations went to Africa, colonized the shit out of it. And then they started drawing straight lines through the country and saying, Okay, this is mine, this is your, this is mine, this is yours. And when they left, you know, the people had these borders stayed because they left and they left, you know, power structures already built inside these countries that maintain that. And, you know, each country, you know, the way that France left their colonies is different from the way that Portugal left their colonies. And there’s a lot of nuance to that. But, you know, in a lot of ways, the power structures that they left back there was to maintain their influence over those countries. Borders are manmade, they’re arbitrary, and the people who live inside those borders really don’t have a say in anything. The same way that American citizens don’t really have a say in what the borders here look like. We were born into it. And we’re taught that this is your country, and only this.
Quinn 53:05
and it’s based so much in sociology, and just it’s all about people and money, power. And yeah
Gui 53:14
and resources, making sure that you have as much land as possible to make sure that you’re, you know, getting all of the money that’s coming from farming or from mineralization or from you know, whatever. It’s all power play that doesn’t really think of the well being of people.
Quinn 53:40
Well, it’s a sad note that we’re ending off at, but I think that it draws to like the reality of what all of this is about. We can’t just make it a positive to end this, but thank you for sharing your story. And I can’t wait to put it into words and show you what I come up with the project.
Gui 54:00
I can’t wait either.
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