Interview with Sheikh
*names have been changed throughout this analysis and transcript
“Like you know, we, we don’t realize it. What we have, honestly, you go there. I bet you any money in a day you’d like oh my goodness, dude, we are. We’re beyond blessed in this country” (39;20).” This quotation remains the theme of the conversation as Sheikh spoke about his life moving to Virginia at the age of sixteen. Virginia and Pakistan are very apart. This may be a shock to some but not too many. The beauty in this distance and the effects of globalization are seen in the contrasting culture that divulges in a great mass of acceptance. A man from Pakistan that spoke perfect English sat across from me through the digital waves of the twenty-first century an hour and a half apart and a relationship contrived of mutual connections. That is the fascinating thing about distance: the ability to maintain connections. This is something that Sheikh did not shy away from as he talked about his place of Birth Pakistan with the same love and beauty as he talked of America. I met Sheikh through mutual connections with my mother, who gave me his number and said that he was a great man that was very open with his personal history. With a stride I contacted him, and the rest is history. I had never talked to Sheikh before the interview making the first couple of minutes uncomfortable as I believed that what I was asking him was personal and I was somehow intruding on his life. This interview is a case where my ignorance shined like three thousand volts in a dark room; however, as the interview stretched into the hour mark, I found that Sheikh was very open to teaching me (and correct me) on a myriad of topics showcasing his comfort with his culture making me more and more comfortable as the interview continued. Throughout the interview, Sheikh talked fondly of his Punjabi traditions as well as his life within the United States. As an American citizen, he was able to bridge the gap between both cultures in a way that showed how they were both interrelated revealing an interesting conversation. Throughout the interview, Sheikh was able to elaborate on how it felt growing up Punjabi in America, the overall American experience, and how he retains his Punjabi roots in America.
Born in Pakistan, Sheikh painted a slight picture of what it was like growing up in America with the past grown from Pakistan. He described the journey beginning with his father’s interest in bringing him towards the states. Simply stated, Sheikh says “And he’s like, you know what, it’ll be better if you guys come and live with me. Because, you know, he’s working here. So, he’s like, you know, we’ll make a living here, you know, make your life here,” (1;18). This phenomenon has been noted by sociologists, most notably Zarrugh that talked extensively on the Latinization of Harrisonburg, Virginia. Although a different area of the country and different places of immigration, the information is still applicable. Zarrugh writes, “Once settled, it is rare that newcomers do not try to convince friends and family to join them. Some individuals bring only their immediate family, but others are known within their communities for bringing or “inviting” large numbers of family and friends to the area” (44: 2008). Although different, Sheikh’s family followed the same “formula” that was followed by thousands of Latino immigrants into the United States regarding a network system. This system is not an uncommon phenomenon that only happens in America. This network ideology is what gives immigrants a chance in a new country. For example, the first immigrant (in this cased Sheikh’s father) was the one that chartered a new experience for the rest of his family. He is the one that opened the gate for the opportunity in a new country. As a result, the family had a much better experience in America. However, the reception was varied between family members. Sheikh talked of his experience by saying “You know, I guess it’s just the surrounding that we were in. I never got like, you know, we joke with my coworkers about a lot of things like but it’s we joke about things you know, but as far as like in serious situations thank the almighty that none of that those things happen to us that have happened to other people in the past” (8;38). Through the interview, he talks of bad things that had happened in his past regarding racism but believes that the racist things that have happened to him were low on the scale of horror. However, Sheikh talks of his sister that experienced racism when he said “my sister did because people in her class they were jerks. Bunch of the guys in our class, they would pull her veil every time she would walk by. So that was something that was not good,” (29;31). The stories that Sheikh told of his childhood showed general ease regarding racism (even though there were racist moments), but the experience highlighted by his sister’s story told of something that remains not entirely safe for all members of the family and culture.
The interview brought up some interesting topics regarding how an immigrant comes into America. One of the first differences that Sheikh seemed to maintain was that of fashion. Sheikh said, “But back then a lot of guys were wearing carpenter and cargo jeans. And they were loose. And what I was wearing was straight fit jeans, because that was the fashion in Pakistan,” (16;09). Although a small thing, the integration into American culture remains an interesting topic. Another large change towards the American experience that Sheikh mentioned was his transition into speaking English. “So, we learn English, from kindergarten, however, we never communicated in it, if that makes any sense. Like, we would understand it, that what somebody is saying, Do I or extend, I would say, and then came here, the first two months, we could communicate, but the accent was different, not because I mean, two reasons. One, because I’m from I came from Pakistan. Second, they teach British English there” (11;48). Hearing the differences between the English language experience in Pakistan versus the language in America is another interesting facet that provides the understanding between the differences between the two countries. While Sheikh said he hasn’t a lot of racism in his past, he says that there are small things that affect his day-to-day life. Nothing that remains life-changing, but still things that seem to bother him. Sheihk said, “I come in with my wife and you think I’m just, I don’t know, of a leacher, or something was gonna come to sit there eat your food for free and walk-up. But that’s my opinion. As I said, I might be overthinking it. I do that sometimes. It’s weird” (30;54). This racism comes from the “The mainstream vilification of Iran and Iranians in US foreign policy, political culture, and media representation has been well documented (616:2020), as documented by Maghbouleh.
How Sheikh retains his connections to his native country while in America can be attributed to his connections, religion, and family. Sheikh talked about his father was a cab driver and was a driving force for him to come into the states. During the interview, he stated, “So he knew a lot of other cab drivers who were, you know, of course, mostly from the same area, same country or same religion, I mean, the same region, and they will talk and then some of them live near his house, and then they had their families over, so they live nearby. That’s all you got to know. A lot of my other friends and then” (25;39). This created a connection that was formed between all the cab drivers and their children. The phenomenon is what helps creates communities within the United States. While the taxi drivers helped bind communities, another binding force was religion. He talks of how his religious strength had changed since he first entered the United States versus where he is now. He mentioned how he has adopted halaal traditions of meat consumption that forces the ethical cutting of meat. Sheikh talks of pray and his life in the following quotation, “But yeah, it is a, it is an integral part of life, along with other things that give you more discipline, and you can manage your time better, because you’re like, Oh, I got to pray at this time. So, I’ll try to finish something by this time. And then I have to prayer this time. And that and so far, so yeah, you know, it happens. And we try to teach that to our kids as well” (21;44). Although Sheikh did not say he was as religious when he was younger, he retains his Muslim traditions as an adult and has become stricter with his religious values. With his religion and culture, he was able to meet to wife. “We met in Pakistan. But that was about the time of our engagement, there was an arranged marriage. So, I did not know her. Like, you know, like, literally didn’t know her before. And then we got engaged” (18;00). Talking of his wife, the arranged marriage of his wife is a way that tradition has survived the transition into the United States and has helped him retain values that are important to his religion. This is another way that Sheikh has retained his culture and tradition in the United States.
After conducting the interview, I found a myriad of questions that I should have asked. As the transcription process began the analysis began to take form, I couldn’t help but to slap myself on the head a few times and vigorously ask myself why I didn’t ask some important questions as well as some nervous blunders that were inevitably displayed throughout the interview. I wish that I had asked about further education (if he was even involved with further education). We talked about his schooling; however, I never asked about further education. I also wish I had asked if the culture had helped him become the man that he had become. Sheikh talked extensively about the benefits of hard work and how it will be transferred into good opportunities. One story that comes to mind is his brother that had to travel long distances on his motorcycle to get to work and how it was something that he just had to do. If I were to do the interview again, I would have asked if that culture of hard work has made a positive impact on living in America. Of course, one could say that hard work is always a good thing; however, what I would want to ask is if the Pakistani culture is different from American culture in how hard work is perceived in the quintessential “American dream.” It was evident throughout the interview that Sheikh was ingrained into the American culture in the sphere of pop culture. This is evident when he quotes the movie, Napoleon Dynamite, by saying “vote Pedro.” Although a small thing, it would have been interesting to ask whether or not he kept up with Pakistani culture or if he didn’t, what was the draw towards American popular culture. While He talks of language, I wish I has asked him about his children’s language. As he is bilingual, It would have been interesting to access if his children spoke any of his languages or if they only spoke English. This would test research regarding south American populations and language as assessed by Walters and Jimenez when they wrote, “The immigrant generation makes some progress but remains dominant in their native tongue, the second generation is bilingual, and the third generation speaks English only” (110: 2005).
“So, yeah, we don’t realize it How, how good we have it here (42;42). Finishing with another quotation, Sheikh talks of his life as better now than it would have been in Pakistan. Now with a wife and children, Sheikh has lived the American life while still maintaining his identity as Punjabi. Early life has been characterized by a network system that has brought his family together and a different view of racism that maintains the conclusion that he did not have it “that bad” compared to other individuals within the states. However, this conclusion is challenged as he describes instances of racism that have affected his life. The community that he has known has been built by the connections that were formed with cab drivers and the religion that surrounds his culture. As a result, Sheikh was able to be comfortably Muslim and adopt halaal traditions and become more and more Muslim as he gets older. Through this comfort, he was able to marry his wife through an arranged marriage. As the interview concluded, I wish that I had asked a few questions about work ethic, pop culture, and how his children have adapted to his native language (or if they have at all). Overall, the conversation with Sheikh had been an enlightening one and one that I will not forget soon as his conversation brought life and comfort to a subject in which I was unaware.
References:
Zarrugh, Laura. 2008. “The Latinization of the Central Shenandoah Valley.” Blackwell Publishing. 46(1), 1-41.
Maghbouleh, Neda. 2020. From white to what? MENA and IranianAmerican non-white reflected race, Ethnic and Racial Studies, 43:4, 613-631.
Waters, Mary and Jimenez, Tomas. 2005. ASSESSINGIMMIGRANTASSIMILATION:NewEmpirical and Theoretical Challenges. 31, 105-125.
Second image provided by Adeel Shabir. @adeelshabir. Taken in Lahore, Pakistan. https://unsplash.com/photos/J2PUDyY3kIs
Transcript:
Alex 0:02
All right says it’s recording. So, I mean, first of all, at the say, oh, like, are you? Are you married? What’s up?
Sheikh 0:17
I am.
Alex 0:18
Oh, happily. Okay, awesome. Awesome. And then do you have other family here and children? And
Sheikh 0:28
yes, I have a mom and dad, my brothers, their wives and their kids, my wife and kids and some cousins that are like, you know, few hours away. My sister is in Texas. So, yes, there is a family here. Not that I visit them often. But we should. Yeah. are here.
Alex 0:50
Awesome. Awesome. I mean, like, right off the bat I can ask. Um, so like, what led to your kind of immigration to the United States was Did you have like family already here? Or was it?
Sheikh 1:08
Oh, that yeah. So my dad was here long ago. Like, you know, he would work, go visit us and this and that. And he’s like, you know what, it’ll be better if you guys come and live with me. Because, you know, he’s working here. So he’s like, you know, we’ll make a living here, you know, make your life here. We came here. And I was thinking, you know, what, we’re just gonna be here for two, three months, you know, live that American life, you know, parties and stuff. I was 16. I mean, imagine, you’re at the peak of your hormones, so you’re not thinking straight. But they’re like, Oh, yeah, you know, that’s what I was thinking. We came here. I think a week passed by and we’re in school. Oh, great. Thanks, Dad. And yeah, it was a joy ride for that part. That’s another long story. But uh, yeah, so he was there. He’s like, you know what, let’s move here. guys can go to school and college here. And, yeah, so that’s how it started. Back in 99. Geez,
Alex 2:19
so I’m guessing I’m Oh, yeah. I mean, it’s not you’re not that you’re not old. But so, I’m guessing that probably led to some difficulties, right. Like, I mean, of course, 2001 was two years later.
Sheikh 2:43
Yeah. So honestly, speaking, the first two years were not that much of a cultural shock. It was in an extent to when I was in school, and how the the schools are here, you know, and how somebody dresses how somebody you know, how males and females in school, how they were mingling with each other, ideally, when their boyfriend or girlfriend, that was something you didn’t get to see in Pakistan? Because in Pakistan, even if you had co education schools, they were like, even if you were dating, which was kind of frowned upon, if you were dating, you would still large sea of boys and girls holding hands or, you know, that’s to say, kissing in school, you know, but you came here and it’s like, but you can do that. So, the very first time I saw that, literally, I was like, Huh, and one of this other guy goes like Dude, keep walking, what is wrong with you? Like, I’m not trying to stare at something. Like it’s not like I’ve not seen somebody’s kids before. It’s just that you don’t see that in school. It’s, it’s something so weird. And, but that was for the school from the schools aspect as far as a life outside of school and whatnot. Quite frankly, it wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be. However, you heard horror stories of how people get abused because of their ethnicity or their religion or their background. Has it happened to me? Yes, it has on multiple occasions and not just happened in back then. But it happened a few years after that. And for years after that, I had one guy cursed me out. As I was taking a break, I used to work at a grocery store. I was taking a break and I had other people, other kids with me that were on break with different ethnicities. You know, and this guy, he was drunk, I wouldn’t reveal his race or anything because I don’t know the guy or anything. He was a bit drunk. I think it was middle of the day. And he just started cursing me out. I don’t know why. And everybody was just looking at me like, dude, you’re gonna take that? I’m like, What do you want me to do? Hit him, you get in trouble. He just cursed me out. He’s like, you know, blah, blah, blah, you this you that go back to your country, blah, blah, blah. And it’s like, dude, like, what do you mean your country? I’m a citizen of this country. So you know, like, I came here on a on an immigration visa. It wasn’t like I came here on a tourist visa. You know what I mean? So everything legal from the get go. And I’ve been a US citizen for shoot, I don’t know what, 20 years now. Yeah, I’m 20. That’s more than I was born. Right. So. Right. So I almost just as much of a US citizen as probably you are. Normally factors. I cannot run for presidency, and you can. But my daughter’s can, so hey, I’m good. So, for that aspect, yes. It was not horrible. Because it didn’t happen frequently. Like that instant. That instinct that thing happened. And then a few years later, another instance happened at the like, you know, it was just something I was somewhere and the person asked me, Where do you work? And I told him, I work at that, this base, and he goes in their minds. They’re holding my US passport, and they go, Oh, how did you get that job? And it’s like, excuse me.
So like, these kind of thing, like minor things like that happened, but since then, oh, it’s been much better actually. Not gonna lie. Like, even if you hear something, you try to just ignore it. Because it’s a, it’s a smart way of going by, not that it happens a lot. I mean, you see the news that something happened to this guy, some guy got beaten up for it, you know what I mean? And whatever, whatever, just because of their ethnicity, whatever the I’m not saying like I’m talking about the current issues, I’m talking about the issues that cause that were caused by 911. You know, the ripple ripple effect of of that situation. But to me or my family, dude, I’m not gonna lie. It’s been not that bad, actually.
Alex 7:48
It’s awesome to hear honestly. Yeah, I was definitely question. What’s up?
Sheikh 7:57
Huge answer for a small question.
Alex 8:00
Yeah, I mean, good to hear though. I mean. I was kind of expecting some horror stories, following 911. And, like, seeing like the difference between like, before and after. Um, but yeah, I’ve
Sheikh 8:15
been, I’m not gonna lie. I have been blessed. My family have been blessed where we didn’t encounter much of that, I guess our surroundings were just the way they were that people were caring or loving. I don’t know. I mean, I’m not gonna praise myself be like, oh, because I was loving and caring people were loving and caring. You know, I guess it’s just the surrounding that we were in. I never got like, you know, we joke with my coworkers about a lot of things like but it’s we joke about things you know, but as far as like in serious situations thank the almighty that none of that those things happen to us that have happened to other people in the past.
Alex 9:03
And where did you live wherever you live in the United States since you’ve been here?
Sheikh 9:10
Great home Virginia baby. Awesome all day every day.
Alex 9:16
So like, like in like the he said in Northern Virginia?
Sheikh 9:21
Yeah, like,
Unknown Speaker 9:22
awesome.
Unknown Speaker 9:24
Um, Woodbridge or Dale City? I don’t know if you’re familiar with any one of those.
Alex 9:29
Yeah, I think my roommate is from around the rock Ridge, but this is what, four
Sheikh 9:39
would be your deal. So you’re better this way. Have you been to comic Mills mall?
Alex 9:43
I think so. Yeah.
Sheikh 9:46
It’s that big outlet mall?
Alex 9:49
Yeah, I think so.
Sheikh 9:52
It’s close to I don’t know Fort Belvoir or Marine Corps Base. Quantico. Imagine it. It’s between Fort Belvoir and Quantico. So it’s like, what a 10 mile stretch on the 95?
Alex 10:08
There’s a pretty diverse area, I would assume.
Sheikh 10:13
Oh, yeah, I was almost fluent in Spanish when I was in high school. Geez, almost, because a lot of folks that were speaking Spanish there, but then there were folks who were from Bangladesh and Afghanistan, but they would speak Urdu, which was, which is my native language. So it was, like, you know, was, it was perfect, wasn’t that bad at all?
Alex 10:41
And did you know English before we made it, the states.
Sheikh 10:48
So it’s kind of weird, because we started learning English when I was in kindergarten. But um, and from that point on, you know, you always have how the school system was over there. So you had English class, and then you had all the other subjects, like if they have subjects here, like you have a subject for English, you have a subject for math, same thing, they’re starting from kindergarten, it was like, he had English class, you had to do class, you had your math, Islamic Studies, start off with basics. And then as you went up in grades, your subjects would like, you know, get different, like, then you would have physics, chemistry and bio, but besides that, the basic subjects were there social studies, Islamic studies will do English math, those five were, like, you know, like a mandatory thing that you have here, you know, yeah, math class, English class. So we learn English, from kindergarten, however, we never communicated in it, if that makes any sense. Like, we would basically understand it, that what somebody is saying, Do I or extend, I would say, and then came here, the first two months, we could communicate, but the accent was different, not because I mean, two reasons. One, because I’m from I came from Pakistan. Second, they teach British English there. So the, like, certain things are different. Like, as in spelling as in pronunciation. You know, like, we hear in the US, we say, we can’t, in British, they say we can’t. And they were very strict of losing the word shell and will. Because in in there, and the way we learned was, you can only use shell with I and we, with everything else, it has to be will. So, I mean, that and then you know, how you would read something in English class, and everybody would start laughing? Because you said they can’t do this, or, you know, stuff like that. But, I mean, you know, and, and besides that, it was funny, I came here. And we had to take ESL classes. You familiar with that? He’s all classes
Alex 13:24
Sign language, right?
Sheikh 13:27
English as a second language class, right? So that that basically just gives you so what what they have is like, teachers that actually, you get extra assistance from your teacher for English, basically. So I came here, and they’re like, Oh, you took English classes in the past. So you don’t need three you need two. They gave me two years old classes. And then they’re like, Oh, you know what? We’re gonna send you to an English nine class. You take that because I came here in 10th grade, but since I didn’t take the ninth grade, they’re like, Oh, you need to take English nine as well. Okay. So I went to English nine class, and this guy is sitting beside me goes, What’s up? It’s my second day in school. second week in the US. I am not familiar with that slang. And my reaction was I looked at the ceiling. I’m not even exaggerating on it. either, but the ceiling I was like, What is he asking me and he goes, What is up? And I just went up and I’m like, lights, and he goes, nevermind.
It is one of those stories where it’s like, oh, my goodness, I cannot believe I said that to the guy.
And then I came outside and asked this one guy who, who was from India, but he could speak Hindi, which is similar to do so I asked him like, Dude, this guy asked me in class, what’s up and He just gave me this weird look when I told him lights. And he laughed and he goes like No, dude, you just say so he told me is like audio, just like if somebody says what’s up? Just say What’s up? And that’s it, you know? And yeah. And the dressing shock was one thing to
Alex 16:00
the dressing
Sheikh 16:02
like, you know, clothes that I wore versus the clothes that people wore back in 99. I mean, you probably don’t know. But back then a lot of guys were wearing carpenter and cargo jeans. And they were loose. And what I was wearing was basically straight fit jeans, because that was the fashion in Pakistan. So yeah, they look girly back then. Now it’s a fashion.
Alex 16:34
I mean, I mean, you can use them now?
Sheikh 16:39
Right, so yeah, so that was the the whole English thing with school and whatnot. But besides that, it wasn’t too bad actually. Like, I wouldn’t say I was like the brightest of the brightest, but I did pretty well in school for that part, especially my English classes. Surprisingly.
Alex 17:01
You speak really good English. I just have to say I mean.
Sheikh 17:07
I mean, I finally got U and V sound fixed. So that’s a achievement. My colleague used to make fun of me, because I used to say a window instead of window. So she would always say, hey, did you look out the window? I’m like, ah, not again. So yeah. And I’m making sure my daughters don’t have that. So far. They don’t. So that’s a good thing.
Alex 17:37
Yeah, I mean, so you mentioned your wife. She is she she’s born in Pakistan as well.
Unknown Speaker 17:48
Yes.
Unknown Speaker 17:49
So do you guys meet in Pakistan or in United States?
Sheikh 17:55
Oh, we, um, well, we met in Pakistan. But that was about the time of our engagement, there was an arranged marriage. So I did not know her. Like, you know, like, literally didn’t know her before. And then we got engaged. And then we started talking, because I think I saw her picture a few days before our engagement. And that’s before ever even talking to her or anything. I just saw a picture. My parents were like, if this is the girl that we have chosen for you, what do you think? And I was like, Oh, she’s cute. Okay, good. It works. So, and then we started talking after our engagement, not before, and then I filed for her papers. She came here. We got married. Now she’s a US citizen, and she voted. Don’t ask me who but she voted.
Alex 19:08
So has so I assume you’re very ingrained with like religion. Like, is it a big part of your life?
Sheikh 19:20
Oh, now, yes. In the past. I was born and raised Muslim. So yes, we would. Like when we were kids, it wasn’t like too strict that we would pray five times a year supposed to like any Muslim is supposed to pray. But we were kids and you’re like, Ah, okay, you know, I missed a priority. That’s fine. But then even when I came here that went on for a while like, you know, oh, yeah, I would they gal pray later or something. And then oh, yeah, you know what, I’ll eat the chicken from McDonald or from any girls. Even Hello. So like, you know a lot is I don’t know if you know halaal or not?
Alex 20:05
No, not very familiar.
Sheikh 20:08
So halaal is? Are you familiar with kosher?
Alex 20:12
Yes.
Sheikh 20:15
So it’s basically in that sense. However, when you cut the animal, you recite the name of a lot to, like, you know, do what I ran, it doesn’t have to be a priest or a mom, to cut the meat, whoever’s cutting, the meat has to recite the name of allah to make it halaal. And they have to cut it a certain way. You know, but, so I wasn’t into that. Until, I don’t know, maybe like, what, three, four years ago, then I switched to like, Okay, you know what, maybe I should just eat halaal, allow me, you know, but before that, in our household, it was always halaal meat. But when we went out to eat, or when I was working anywhere and whatnot, I would be like, ah, chicken store, I wouldn’t eat pork, you know, pork or bacon was strictly zero. Alcohol was a No, no. So yeah, as far as prayers are concerned, now I try to pray make sure that I pray five times, and I pray on time, which usually doesn’t still doesn’t happen much, which is bad. But yeah, it is a, it is an integral part of life, along with other things that actually gives you more discipline, and you can manage your time better, because you’re like, Oh, I got to pray at this time. So I’ll try to finish something by this time. And then I have to prayer this time. And that and so far, so yeah, you know, it happens. And we try to teach that to our kids as well. But we are not enforcing it. Like, you know, we are teaching them the ways like you know, how parents teach their kids like, Hey, don’t do this, that is bad, or do this, it is good. So we are doing the same thing, like my family is not super strict, when it comes to like being generous, and my family in general, not as strict as to when our wives went outside their core their selves from like, head to toe completely. That’s not how it is my wife covers herself, but it’s to the point where she has like full clothes on. And then she would have like a scarf or a veil on our head, you know what I mean? And for my daughter are too young right now. So like, my older one is nine. She’s getting to the age where she should wear a scarf. But I am not forcing it, I discuss it with my wife and mom, and they’re like, don’t force it. Because if you force it, it kills the purpose. eats them the right thing. And if they do it or not, that’s when it matters the most. Because if they do it themselves, then it’s perfect. Because you know, that’s the the teaching as well of the religion don’t force it does mean you are forcing it, they are not actually afraid of afraid of the Almighty as they should be. They’re just afraid of you. And the consequences that you know, the circumstances they will be in because this because of disobeying you, not? who they are praying to. So like, okay, that’s fine. And then I see that even I’m not even forcing it. And I was, I don’t know if I told me or not that I saw my daughter praying by herself. And I was like, Whoa, this is awesome. I didn’t force her. I didn’t tell her. She learned she’s learning it because we all learn. And she’s like, Oh, I’m gonna pray. Hey, by all means, you know. So now she prays once in a blue moon, but it’s better than not bringing it all. So yeah, you know?
Alex 24:11
And do you think that the I’m being religious in his states? Do you think that kind of helps you build a community around like your culture?
Sheikh 24:25
So I wouldn’t say that, like, back in the day, maybe. I wouldn’t say that. That was the case that the religion caused your community to grow. It was mostly from Oh, you’re from that part of the world like you were from Pakistan or Bangladesh or India. You’re generally speaking similar time, you know. So when you go to these, like, you know, festivals or whatever, whatever, that the artist is coming from a different country, and you listen to their music You’re like, Oh, that is cool. And then you get to meet other people there. Or in school when you’re, you know, somebody from India speaks Hindi, or somebody from Bangladesh, but they happens to speak or do. You just talk and that’s how you grew. But then you also had another circle, because that’s the same people you see in your surroundings, when you go to grocery store, you went to some place, or your kids went to school with the person, you know, that’s how it was with my dad, because he just knew people that he worked with. You know, he was a, he’s a cab driver. So he knew a lot of other cab drivers who were, you know, of course, mostly from the same area, same country or same religion, I mean, same region, and they will talk and then some of them live near his house, and then they had their families over, so they live nearby. That’s all you got to know. A lot of my other friends and then. And then on top of that, it was a religion aspirants afterwards that, oh, when you go for Friday prayer, there weren’t many mosques back in the day, you know, like an hour 20 to 30 mile radius. I think there are only two mosques back then. Now it’s like, not have one near my house at a walking distance. But, you know, so back, then you go to the mosque, guess who you see? The same people you saw your dad’s friends, their families, and then somebody else who lives in that area of the town, but you got to see them and then you like, you know, standing and talking like, Oh, hey, how are you? And then that was with the the same community as in, like, if you were from the same part of the world, like your family was from Pakistan or some lived in India. And then in recent times, that expanded even more because now it’s like, now I go to the mosque near my house. There are people there from like, basically, around the globe, you know, but we are, like, super cool with each other. I was out for a month because I was on vacation. I went back today and I kid you not. I I walked in there, like, you’re here. You know, they were just excited to see me they’re not related to me. There we are only related because of our religion, you know. And I go pray with them every day. And it’s amazing. You know, now that is the family that extended now if you have like feasts, were like, you know what, let’s have a piece in the mosque. You take the food there. Hey, guys, bring your families and all. And you know, you that’s another way of having a extended family, you know, the extended community? Like I say,
Alex 28:04
yeah, that’s a I mean, it’s kind of cool. How communities can be set up outside of the country within like a new country. I don’t know. I think it’s pretty cool. How that works. Um, has your wife ever experienced? Like, do you think she’s experienced more like culture clash than you have? Now that I think about it just like, it’s like, I’m gonna try not to say anything (bad), but if she’s like, wearing like, a, like a scarf? Like I obviously I think people might see that as more foreign then not knowing I mean,
Sheikh 28:43
that, that not really, because I haven’t seen that. Because most of the time, she goes somewhere. She goes with me. Let’s just all pray together that she gets her license soon. So I don’t have to deal with that. But, uh, no, beside that. I mean, we haven’t seen that the where it feels weird that she’s wearing a job or a whale. Because there are a lot of like, girls here in this area now that were paid jobs in Wales, one of my best friend. She wears it in my sister Ward when she was in college. And I had a girl in school. She wore a job all the time. And I don’t recall them encountering any issue. Yeah, my sister did because people in her class they were jerks. Bunch of the guys in herr class, they would pull her wail every time she would walk by. So that was something that was not good. So yeah, but besides that, as far as something for my wife, no pretty chileld back on that part. Sometime I think somebody is being racist, but that’s my opinion based on how I feel about You know, like, you go to a restaurant, you sit down, the waiters come in, they’re like, Hi, this is my name. Would you like to start off with water? That’s one. And then the same waiter goes to the table right next to you where a different color families sitting. And we’re like, Hi, this is my name. How are you today? Can I start off with something? How would you feel about? You would think that, WTF? What is wrong with you? You know, like, you can’t do that to me that I was like, rude to you. So, I guess still, maybe it’s me overthinking it, you know what I mean? So that the only thing that bugs me sometimes when I go out to restaurants with my wife and kids, it’s like, come on, dude. If I’ve been to this restaurant with somebody else, you treat me like a king. I come in with my wife and you think I’m just, I don’t know, of a leacher, or something was gonna come sit there eat your food for free and walk up. But that’s my opinion. As I said, I might be overthinking it. I do that sometimes. It’s weird.
Alex 31:13
It’s basically justified. I mean, you see, see like a bunch of ghost stories all the time. And it just makes you like, like, well, like, obviously, like the voices changed. And that can be unnerving. For anybody really? Um, but I mean, yes. Like, it’s pretty brash comparison. But when you’re a kid, and you go to a restaurant, the friends a good way to treat you differently than, like, adult and I don’t know. Oh, well, yeah, you can. But, um, so So you came to the States? Did you? So you can you come with all your family members at once? Or was it kind of like a, like a process like where they kind of came in after you or before you or?
Sheikh 32:05
No, so it was a, my dad was here. And it was my mother, myself, and my two brothers and sister. We all came together. And then we all live here. I was just back there. Four weeks ago, before three weeks came back last week. Took my wife and kids there. It was fun. Spend time with the family went out to places had some good street food. So yeah, every few years, I go back for three weeks. visit family. My wife goes because I have to go with her. You know, it’s like being married. If you want to be happy. Sometimes you just put your head down and be like, yes. Ba Okay, off we go.
Alex 33:06
Yeah, and it was it difficult with COVID and everything with like all the travel
Sheikh 33:13
the only thing that was difficult was that you have to keep your face mask on the whole light. And honestly, like going there was the flight is quicker, it’s like 11 hours from here to Doha, and then two and a half, three hours from Doha to Lahore coming back however, it was three and a half to four hours from level to do her and almost 15 hours from Doha, Washington and imagine having a face mask on for 15 hours not 15 hours from the moment you got to the airport from Lahore you put your face mask on because they require you to have it on from that point all the way to like got out of the airport in Washington my the back of my ear was hurting but the the thread from the facemask got at that’s the thing I hated however I love to travel because from here to Doha the long flight The plane was pretty much empty so I got three seats
loved it
Alex 34:22
it’s it’s pretty nice.
Sheikh 34:24
Oh dude. Yeah, boy. That was that long flights you would love it
Alex 34:31
Yeah, I I went on a trip with my family to Idaho to see some family and it was kind of nice having a plane because it was like a mandatory like seat between you and the next person to you never got like the middle seat, which was pretty nice. And being over Yeah, looks like room. It’s just it’s definitely Yeah.
Sheikh 34:57
But from Doha to Lahore where the flight was Packed, our family had a seat empty in the middle because we booked our seats from here. I don’t know if it was something like an air guideline or something. But there were families that were sitting three in a row. I mean, three people on three seats. But for all the seats that me and my family had, there was an extra seed on the side.
So I was I was happy. I was like, hell yeah.
Alex 35:26
And however, the COVID guidelines down in Pakistan,
Sheikh 35:32
Oh, dude, in Pakistan, the guidelines are, okay. Like, it’s only requirement is that if you’re traveling, you got a euro mask, and you got to get your COVID custom. So I had I got my COVID test done when I was departing from here, three days before departure. And I got my COVID test done there. Three days prior to my departure from there. It was like a mandatory thing. But as far as like, general requirements, and like general public and stuff, it’s pretty similar to what’s here. Like you’re required to wear a mask when you go into a store. Um, you are somewhat required to wear a mask when you go to a restaurant over there, but not as much because you’re going into a restaurant, and you’re going to take off your mask regardless to eat. So but the the staff in the restaurants wore masks. Now, so they were masks, people in big stores wore masks. But people in small shops that are like how do you say like bazaars they It was like they had a mask on, but it was like I’ll put a mask on and that I’ll yank it down to right here under my beard. And if somebody comes into school like this, above your lips, not above your nose, killed the purpose. But hey, you got a mask on? And guess what? And that’s only bad people, like a lot of people getting their masks. But now yesterday think the government block is on? Did this mandatory curfew thing where all the shops have to be closed by? like four 6pm? And they shut down schools?
Alex 37:42
Geez,
Sheikh 37:42
no.
Alex 37:43
Are they doing online? Or is it pretty? No.
Sheikh 37:48
Oh, no, definitely not online. Because only I think only a few schools might be doing something online. But the school system over there is a lot different than here. Most of the schools are private. And the network connections over there are lesser say, for schools even are just okay. And I don’t know. But the schools I went to, if this school closed or school closed, no studies. Because no school have that much budget to buy iPads for kids. You know? Yeah. So that’s an that’s another thing. When you say America, you say a land of opportunities. And there’s a reason you say that. You might not feel it. But I did. All right. Do you know because you were born and raised here. So you grew into this thing? Like if I tell you hey, we fasted few months ago and you be like, How the hell did you fast in the middle of this heat right in the middle of summer? Right? It was like, What? 17 hour 18 hour fast. Where there’s no food or drinks. You can’t even drink water. from sunrise to sunset and you’ll be like, there’s no way in hell I can do that. damn thing. League grew into it. You know what I mean? So same thing here. Like you know, we, we don’t realize it. What we have, honestly, you go there. I bet you any money in a day you’d like oh my goodness, dude, we are. We’re beyond blessed in this country. You have no idea. No, mind me telling you. I’ll tell you this quick story. Just to give you an idea of how some people are. I’m not saying everybody’s like that. But how some people are happy with what they have. And this story is at least I would say about 1015 1516 years old story. I was at my grandma’s house. embarks on I was visiting from here, right. And I went out to get something and I saw this dumpster bed, the guy had a donkey and a bed in the back. And he was collecting garbage from the neighborhood, right? Putting on the flatbed and just taking it to wherever the dumpster site, wherever that may be, right? He had three kids with them. I don’t know if there were two girls and a boy or two boy and a girl. And they were like about, I don’t know, four or five, six years of age, probably. And they were sitting on the flatbed as well. And since they were ahead of me, the street wasn’t that wide, so I couldn’t pass them. So I was behind them. And these little kids, they were sitting on that dumpster bed, going through the trash of people, and seeing if they can find a little piece of leftover apple or anything, you know. And I saw one kid found a leftover apple. And he was taking a bite, and he was happy. And smiling. I was like, Oh my goodness, we don’t even eat an apple that was bruised. You know what I mean? And then you see people living on the streets, but you see that here as well. People who have houses there, they barely have any electricity. Because I live in huts, you know, cottages and all that stuff. So you still have those, they’re like, you know, here, it’s a fun thing you camp out for a day or two over there to people’s living situation. And it’s not that the government gives them any social, what do you call that? Like the welfare thing, like, you know how we have here, right? If you’re unemployed, or if you’re not making enough money to, you know, to live well, or at least live properly, the government provides you assistance, right? You get a EBT card or like something that helps you with your food situation, or you get low income housing, and all right over there, it’s not like that. So when you come here, you live in a central heating in AC housing. You know what I mean? You work in a nice office space. I mean, just to start off, that’s more than what average family over there can have.
You know what I mean? Yeah, like, average family over there. I’m not saying a poor family or a middle class. I’m saying something above middle class. You know. So, yeah, we don’t realize it How, how good we have it here.
Alex 43:04
Yeah, that’s, it’s crazy. I mean, I’ve grown up like in what, like a middle class home my entire life. So it’s pretty easy to kind of forget that. other cultures live in that way. I’m not saying oh, there’s just compared to like, just us culture, I guess.
Sheikh 43:28
Yeah, I mean, we are. I mean, it’s not our fault, either. We grew up in this society, right. So whoever grew up in whichever society, they’re comfortable with it. So I see people that were there. They’re fine with I mean, yeah. And their mindset, they’re like, oh, it’d be it’d be nice if it’s better. But everybody thinks that don’t we think that like, Look, we’re sitting in a house, right? We are not feeling cold or warm, because we were sitting in a central heating NAC system, right? But isn’t it in the back of your head that you’re like, oh, man, I hope it’s, I get something better. That’s a human nature, right? So we are in this country, you live all the countries like, if you live in Pakistan, you live it the way people live there. You can’t be like, Oh, I live in Pakistan, but I’m gonna live the American way. What is that? Then it’s like, I don’t know. I mean, people have nine to five jobs there. They don’t have I think some companies or there have weekends off like Saturday and Sunday. Some have Friday off, but you work the rest of the week, six days. Even schools over there. Most of the schools are six days. And oh, by the way, over there, you don’t have lockers. And you have to Buy your own books and all that stuff. So when you go to school, and you’re seven years old or eight years old, and you have six classes, guess what? You have six notebooks and six books in your backpack. So yeah, so when you come home, you take your backpack off, you have like these, this, these marks from pressure off your bookbag on your shoulders.
Alex 45:31
So what are your opinions on a modern, the US immigration policy?
Sheikh 45:42
Oh, that’s a good one. Because I have a parently any knowledge, and I’m not gonna lie. I only know is that when my wife came here, she was fiancee then came here, we got married, then we submitted because she came here on a fiance visa as well. So it wasn’t like Oh, she came in just to visit and then we got married bla bla bla, like, we try to kept it as like gimme not kept. It was all legal, you know. So she came here, we got married, filed her paperwork, she got her green card. And then the rule was, she has to have her green card for five years. And she have to be in the country for three and a half or something years, amongst the five years. And then we can apply for her citizenship. So and then I think the thing changed to three and a half years now. So besides that, honestly, that’s all I know, as far as the immigration thing is concerned, I know back in the days, if you wanted your uncle to visit or somebody to visit, you would just type a letter that, hey, this is me, I would like my uncle or my grandma to visit us. You know, we’ll take care of their residents and their food and whatnot and whatnot, you know what I mean? And you were send that letter to your whoever your relative, whoever wants to come, they would take that letter along with their visa application and submit it. And it used to work. You know, my dad did that for his brother. He came here. He visited for what, three weeks, I think and he’s like, okay, deuces. I’m out. We went back. Besides that, and honestly, I am not as good of a person to ask about immigration policies, I should pay more attention, maybe. But I’m like, my wife is here, and my kids are here. My mom and dad is here. Mine was not going to come here. never asked they never mentioned any desire either. So I mean, you know, that’s just me. And like,
Alex 48:11
do you know if it’s like harder now? Because he said, it was pretty easy. You said write a letter for like, your father is just harder now.
Sheikh 48:22
I am pretty sure is based on like, all the documents that you have to provide just for you and your own self. You know what I mean? Like, for my kids a passport? Both parents have to be here. And what was it? Yeah, even if when I had to do my wife’s passport, it was like, oh, provide this for wide that provide this this name this that, like, it was like, holy crap, are you going to stop with something like, Oh, you need to bring your marriage certificate, you need to bring your husband’s like, photocopy off his passport, you need to verify that you still live with your husband, you still need to verify your husband is still employed. And you know, your kids birth certificate and all that stuff. Like, you name it, it was like, they wanted to make sure that you know, you are still with the person, you know, just to get her citizenship. And she’s been here for how long? So I’m assuming it’s not easy. And based on what the whole thing with the travel ban and all that stuff was, which I don’t know much about because all I know is that whatever you saw on the news about the travel ban was I guess one third of the story and that is based on what I heard as well you know what I mean? So I am very unpolitical. So All About policies and stuff, it’s honestly I should pay more attention to. But I am not as political or know much about those immigration policies, they might be strict because of, you know, how things are happened in the past and, you know, all the threats and how, how each thing is related to one another, you know what I mean? I’m not gonna say, Oh, it’s, it’s only from the Muslim countries that a bad guy came. You know what I mean? Because we all know, that is not the truth. But how things have happened, they have probably changed their, like, you know, their procedures on who comes in, it is fine. Like, if you want somebody to visit your country, you got to make sure that you know, your, your borders protected. Like you wouldn’t let a random person walk into your house, right? Like, if you didn’t know me, and I come and knock on your door, you wouldn’t be like, Oh, hello, come on in. I was like, hey, I want to come into your house. You’re like, excuse me? Who the hell are you? You know what I mean? Yeah, so same thing, so that I understand. I’m totally cool that if they’re making it strict, that is perfectly fine. It should be. Because it not only protects them, but it protects us too, because we are part of this society as well. So yeah, if you’re making it good enough. Yeah. Yeah.
Alex 51:45
I mean, that’s what we’re learning in this class in particular, is how, like policies influence certain groups, um, with a strong focus on kind of like Central America and South America, but yeah, it’s definitely stuff.
Sheikh 52:05
Yeah, that that is the you know, that one is a very political height, like, you know, very heavy political topic when it comes to Central and South America, you know, so But hey, you’re, you’re studying about it. So it’s good, you know?
Alex 52:30
So would you want to add anything else to the conversation? Or?
Sheikh 52:35
Ah, oh, yeah. tell the kids stay in school. No drug? Oh, no, honestly. In conclusion, what it is, is the decision of coming here, even though it wasn’t ours. It was a good decision. has life be any different if we were there? Probably. But it might have been probably the same way as well. You know, like, people live there. They party. They enjoy their life. I’ve seen it. So same here. You’re here. Our families are here. Just concluding on like, you know, we’re just a conclusion of what it was that came here. It was a you know, minor challenges as far as like, crossing the communication barrier. But after that, like things happened in the world that changed some things but didn’t affect us much. I’m not gonna lie. have got a job. Then chain life changed, got another job life seen some more. And then as the time went by, things got So far gotten better? You know what I mean? It’s just your perspective how you look at things. And I honestly am not complaining. Would you have it any other way? Based on what you have? No? What if it was any other way? Then it is what it is, you know? So generally people ask this question be like, Oh, so, what do you like the most living in the US or living in Pakistan? Now, that’s like, what the hell? It’s like it, there’s no answer to it. They bought her amazing places in their own sense. You know what I mean? Like, if you think about having a lavish lifestyle and focused on, you can have a lavish lifestyle in pockets. You can have a lavish lifestyle here. You can have people that do everything for you, you don’t have to clean anything. You don’t have to cook anything. You know what I mean? You don’t have to iron your clothes. You don’t have to do your laundry, you don’t have to do dishes. You don’t have to wipe clean the floor or do any cleaning in the house. You don’t have to make your bed. You know what I mean? You don’t have to watch your kids, because you’re going to have a full time nanny. Who does that for you. Like these kind of things. You want to have a lavish lifestyle anywhere you can have it. Where do you have more opportunities? No, God is you have more opportunities in the United States. But you can’t just expect them to be falling on your lap. You know what I mean? Any place you are going there are here, you have to bust your behind to get what you want. So when this a hard work pays off, that is not only a blicket applicable to the people in the US that is applicable to anybody in the world. And I have seen that with my eyes. My cousin. He used to go to his workplace, on his motorcycle. Now motorcycles over there, like back then you had a 70 cC 125 cc imagine it’s like a tad bit bigger than a moped right? Not even that maybe, but he used to take that and he used to drive as far as from from north from my house, or from Quantico base to Washington, DC. Now, that’s a good 35 mile drive on a motorbike on the streets or the roads that were there. Even on a bike here, if you go, it’s like, oh, man, it’s a 35 minute drive. That was a one hour ride for him. And he did that every day, day after day, six days a week, right? Guess what? He busted his ass. Now he is. Now he has his own business. He has his own factory. You know what I mean? No, he has a car. He has a house. It’s one example. You know, there are many other example. people close to their ass. They worked hard. They did whatever they could. And now they’re having a decent life. Why? Because they worked hard. I mean, we worked hard. And we have a decent life. I’m not saying we have made them but not but so yeah, it’s good here can complain? Because I have seen how things are and how lucky we are. Us complaining even on a worst day, of course, is still multiple polls better than somebodies best day over there.
Alex 58:46
Yeah.
Sheikh 58:54
So that’s my concluding. And as I said, there’s a I’m not political. So I don’t know if he had any political questions. But since I’m not political, I don’t have any. Like, you know, affiliation or something. Like I can have my opinions on things, but I don’t have any, like a strong bias toward one or the other parties. And over there, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What for Pedro?
Alex 59:36
Well, thank you very much for taking the time out of your day to talk with me and help me with this project in mind. It’s been awesome talking and kinda hearing other people’s stories. I appreciate it. Thank you very much.
Sheikh 59:57
I’m glad. Let me know if I can be of any other help. You know, it was good talking to you,
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