Interview with Phoebe
Going into this project, I felt rather intimidated by the pressure of the topic; I knew that whoever I ended up interviewing, I wanted to accurately and respectfully share their story while also celebrating it. My parents nor their parents are immigrants, so I am pretty far removed from the reality of immigration, but I have heard stories about where my great-grandparents came from and a few of my friends are either second-generation immigrants or they immigrated to the US themselves. Taking this class has opened my eyes to all of the ups and downs of immigrating, especially to the US, and although I was nervous, I felt prepared going into this interview.
When learning about this project, I was trying to brainstorm who I wanted to interview but I wasn’t sure who to choose. I felt a lot of pressure to ask someone such personal and deep questions about where they came from so I wanted to choose a person who I knew decently well. I ended up choosing someone who I was friends with in high school, and I’m really glad that I did. Our conversation went really well and my nerves disappeared once we started chatting; we even got off topic a few times reminiscing about high school. She opted to have her real name left out of my project, so I’ll be using the pseudonym, Phoebe, instead. Phoebe immigrated to America from Russia in the late 2000s at age 9, so she was in the middle of elementary school. We met in the ninth grade and for as long as I’ve known her, Phoebe has never kept her roots a secret; she was always very proud and open about where she came from. Despite her pride in her Russian heritage, this trait was never really the most important quality that she showed to her friends. Phoebe has many other traits that are of the same, if not of more, importance to her than being Russian; she was proud of her background, but she never let it define her.
I interviewed Phoebe over Thanksgiving break when we were both in Roanoke, Virginia, my hometown and the town that she immigrated to, so we could have done the interview in person, but because of COVID-19, and to ensure our safety, I interviewed her virtually. I’ve worked with Zoom a lot throughout the past few months because all of my classes have moved online, so this part of the project wasn’t too difficult, and it wasn’t uncomfortable to meet with her like this.
Figuring out the questions to ask was a particularly daunting part of this project. I’m glad that I chose someone that I have an established relationship with because I would have been pretty nervous to talk to someone that I didn’t know about something so personal to them. I tried to make some of my questions kind of broad and open ended so that her answers wouldn’t be short, but I wanted some of them to be more specific and to hone in on her individual experience. I also tried to word them so that wouldn’t sway her response in one way or another. My questions for Phoebe start out more basic and straightforward with “When did your family migrate to the US?” and “Have you naturalized into the US?”. But then I expanded a bit to “Tell me about how your Russian cultural practices changed or stayed the same after you immigrated,” and “Explain how it was to figure out your identity in terms of your nationality”. I wanted to have somewhat of a range of questions so I could learn about her past, but also to make our conversation as a whole flow easily. After figuring out these questions, I sent them to her so she could look over them and make sure that they were good. I had her check them out so she could be more prepared for the interview, and I also didn’t want to spring anything on her or ask something that would’ve made her uncomfortable.
I was excited to interview Phoebe for this project, because most of the stories I’ve heard from people who have migrated to the US have been from adults, specifically parents. And although these histories are still relevant and important in their own way, I was looking forward to hearing about immigration from a different perspective. Phoebe was 9 when she came to the US so she has memories from being a kid in Russia, but she was also able to experience childhood and her adolescence in America. Also, because she was so young, her mom took care of all of the legal issues they encountered, so this part of their immigration wasn’t on the forefront of her mind like it is for a lot of other immigrants.
Phoebe started off by telling me about the city she’s from in Russia, Cheboksary. The population is around 450,000 and it’s about a three and a half hour flight to the east of St. Petersburg. After telling me about this, we dug into the reasons why her and her family moved out of Russia and into America. She explained to me that her mom fell in love with an American man and that this was the catalyst for them immigrating. Her mom and step-dad unfortunately aren’t together anymore but Phoebe joked about this by saying that her mom was a “mail to order bride with a kid.” Despite the romance aspect of their immigration history, she also told me that her mom wanted to come to the US so that her and Phoebe would be in a better economic situation than in Cheboksary, also so that Phoebe could go to an American college and have better education opportunities than the ones she would’ve had if they stayed in Russia. She told me that they flew from Cheboksary to Washington, DC with a few layovers in Moscow and another one in either Germany or France, she wasn’t sure. The airport in Roanoke isn’t international, so they flew into DC and drove a few hours down to Roanoke. She told me that on the way, they stopped for food and she had a steak for the first time in her life: “I remember not liking it at all.” I can’t blame her; steak is kind of gross. It was fascinating to hear her talk about flying and how she couldn’t remember some of the details about the trip, because I feel like a lot of immigrants’ stories about traveling to their new home are a really grueling aspect of their history. That’s not to say that this trip was easy on her, but when you hear about how some people have to walk miles and miles or even swim across the Mexican border to come into the country, flying seems like such a luxury.
Next, we chatted about some of the legal issues that they had to deal with, and because she was so young she doesn’t entirely remember; her mom took care of all of these things. She told me that her mom had to get married to her step-dad pretty soon after immigrating so that she could get her green card so she could get her citizenship sooner, so that Phoebe could get hers too. But she waited to naturalize until after Phoebe turned 18, so now Phoebe has to get her citizenship without the help of her mom. Because they didn’t have their American citizenship, they did have to go back and forth to Russia a few times to renew their passports. Phoebe also told me about how they own an apartment that her family lives in and she said, “Since we own it, there’s some legal stuff there.” So, they have had to deal with some legal things in Russia, but nothing regarding the legality of them staying in America, which is definitely a positive. So many people who immigrate to the US aren’t able to obtain official documents that make their entry legal, so they practically live their lives on the run from Immigration and Customs Enforcement. This is a devastating reality that many people have to face, so I’m glad that this wasn’t something that Phoebe and her mother had to deal with.
This set of questions I had for Phoebe revolved her transition with moving and how integrating into American culture was for her. I asked her how she was able to adjust into her new elementary school system and she admitted that it was difficult for her. She told me that, “I think for the first month, or maybe a week I really don’t remember since it’s such a long time ago, my mom like came to school with me.” Her mom went through this specific transition with her in hopes that she would adapt to the new environment better, and she did. Phoebe only knew very basic English phrases before coming to America, but after being put into ‘English as a Second Language’ classes, she learned very quickly and could speak fluently after about 6 months. Because she advanced and learned English so quickly, she was put into Plato, the honor’s program at her elementary school. She said that this really changed the dynamic between her and her classmates because they were now on the same playing field and she wasn’t just the new kid who didn’t know English anymore. She did tell me, though, that when she was learning English, people in her grade saw her as a novelty. They would make insensitive remarks to her like, “Oh, you were so cute when you didn’t know how to speak English. I remember using a notebook to talk to you with pictures.” She knows that these kids didn’t mean any harm and goes on to say, “There’s no ill will from kids because I was just among nine year olds, but definitely people treated me as some sort of attraction.” Although these interactions weren’t coming from a place of negativity, they can absolutely be discouraging for someone who’s trying to find their place in a new environment where they’re also trying to learn the predominant language. I think for situations like this, it’s more important to pay attention to our similarities with other people instead of our differences. There was one boy, though, who would accuse Phoebe of being a communist, and she can luckily laugh about this now. What kind of nine year old even knows what a communist is? Phoebe said, “…maybe their parents really hated Russia or something.”
Next, Phoebe and I began to discuss her identity in regards to her nationality and how figuring that out was for her. I was a little nervous to ask these questions because I was nervous for their answers; Phoebe and I were good friends in high school and it would’ve broken my heart to hear if she had a tough time finding where she fit in. High school is such a difficult time in a young person’s life regarding finding your true friends and your identity, I can’t imagine the added pressure as an immigrant. Our conversation about these topics was really open and honest, and it was almost refreshing to get so vulnerable. She said that because she spent her entire middle and high school years in America, which she admitted are “your most formable years”, that she was able to fit in okay with people of her generation. But when she went back to Russia recently, she said, “I felt this other alienation, like I’m not Russian enough to be in Russia.” This feeling that you have two identities but you still have to prove yourself for one, or even both of them, is a reality that a lot of immigrants have to face. In class, we learned that this is a particularly difficult issue for second-generation immigrants, but Phoebe said that she felt this way because of her status as a first-generation immigrant. “I definitely feel that that term really applies to me, because I feel like by the second generation and third generation, like your parents are already here, like your grandparents. So, it’s a little bit easier to feel American than when you like, actually moved.” Despite when the move to America happened, struggling with your identity in this way could be so upsetting for a person as they’re trying to figure out who they are, especially in their teenage years. Phoebe said that even though this was a slight struggle for her, she’s grateful that it wasn’t as difficult as it could’ve been. Her biological father isn’t a big part of her life, so when she found out about his Kazakhstani heritage when she was a middle schooler, she said that she began to relate to other women of color through shared intersectionalities. In high school, she said that although her Russian heritage was very important and prominent to her, this wasn’t how she identified herself, nor was it how her friends saw her. We saw her as a normal friend; although we knew about her Russian identity, no one ever tokenized her for this. Phoebe’s history was important to me because it was important to her, but I saw her for her qualities as a friend because that’s what she wanted her friends to see.
I asked Phoebe about her Russian cultural practices that she held onto after immigrating, and from her answer I gathered that they didn’t keep their practices not because they left Russia, but because they were now in America. What I mean by this is, they let go of them to adjust to American culture, and because there wasn’t a big Russian community in Roanoke, they didn’t have that kind of support to keep these traditions alive. However, if there had been a prominent Russian community in their Virginian city, then they probably would’ve wanted to keep these practices. In our class, we learned about both sides of this coin, and it is a very circumstantial issue. Some immigrants are fortunate enough to move into new cities that have a very vibrant community from the place that they emigrated from. While others move to places without these environments and they typically assimilate and let go of some of their cultural traditions. Phoebe told me that in Russia, it’s more common for people to celebrate New Year rather than Christmas, and that they had to adjust to this, but they still celebrate New Year’s on their own. She said, “There’s not a culture of Christianity in Russia the same way that there’s a culture of Christianity here,” and that a lot of our Christianity practices and views aren’t a thing in Russia. For Phoebe and her mom to adapt to this, it would fall into structural assimilation as they were adapting to a new institution. 
Towards the end of our interview, Phoebe and I talked about her progress with naturalizing and how she felt about this, and her answers were different from any that I have heard before. She hasn’t gotten her citizenship yet because her mom waited until after Phoebe turned 18 to get hers, so now Phoebe has to get it by herself, and also because at the time it cost $700, and they just didn’t have that kind of money to spend. She plans on getting it soon and not so she can permanently live in the US, but so she can leave. “Why I’m looking to get my citizenship right now is so that I can travel to European countries without having to get a visa which would cost not as much as $700, but also so I can travel to european countries and then get healthcare.” She explained to me that having universal healthcare was very important to her, and she really valued it when she was living in Russia this past year.
Phoebe moved to St. Petersburg on her own and found work teaching English, and in social media marketing. She told me about how wonderful it was to see her extended family and family that isn’t blood related, but that her and her mom chose. The way she described her community there sounded really beautiful and I wish this was more culturally accepted in the US. “I went out to play with all the kids in the apartment, there’s people that I call aunt to this day that are not at all related to me but they took care of me when I was younger.” This is how I view my godparents, so I can relate on that level, but I think Americans would be better off having these kinds of connections. However, she explained a little later on in the interview that Russians are more reserved than Americans are, and they don’t bother with small talk like we do. But she has had a few encounters with people who share their entire biographies in a matter of minutes. For example, she met this woman in a store and by the time she left, she knew that this woman’s son didn’t know what he wanted to do in life, so we joined the military. She says, “People are very friendly if you get to know them and start conversations but usually people don’t start conversations on the street or while shopping for their stuff.” This also goes along with her having to adjust to American culture; Americans love to smile at you on the street or ask about the weather, and Phoebe isn’t a fan of this. We moved onto discussing her plans for the next few years, and she told me that she wants to move to Europe soon and go to college there; her goal is to study game design and make video games of her own. “And eventually I’m going to hopefully make some stuff that will inspire other people… That’s something that I’m really passionate about, that’s what I really want to do in life so I’m going to try my best to do it.” I’m actually studying abroad in London and in Florence next year so hopefully Phoebe and I can hangout in the EU!
I’m really glad that I chose Phoebe to interview for this project. I learned new things about someone that I have known for years, and I’ve also heard an immigration story completely different from the ones that I’m used to. She was brought to this country by her mom, she grew up here and integrated easily, for the most part, and now she’s ready to move to a different country, but only after getting her American citizenship. My main take away from talking to Phoebe is just knowing that every single immigrant story is valid and important in its own way. Even between Phoebe and her mom: they value different things in living in America. Two immigration stories might be seemingly identical, but people perceive and experience situations differently, and this should be celebrated.
Abby Danielsen 0:00
Okay, so I’m gonna have you introduce yourself, and then we’ll get into the questions.
Phoebe 0:05
Gotcha. So should I introduce myself now?
Abby Danielsen 0:08
Mhm.
Phoebe 0:09
Okay, gotcha. I’m Phoebe, I came over from Russia to America when I was nine years old. I think that’s about it. Besides for like, yeah.
Abby Danielsen 0:23
Okay. So where did you grow up in Russia? And what do you remember about your time there?
Phoebe 0:28
I grew up in Cheboksary. Basically, it’s the nation’s capital for Chuvash people, and I’m Chuvash. And what I remember from my childhood, I guess, was just basic kid stuff since I moved away when I was nine. I remember going to school, I remember just like, my childhood, I remember traveling and stuff like that.
Abby Danielsen 0:56
Nice. So when did you come to America? And why did your family choose to make the move?
Phoebe 1:03
It was in 2009. And my mom chose to make the move, because she met up with this guy in Russia, actually, he’s from America, my step-dad, Steve. She met up with him in Russia through a friend, and they kind of, you know, fell in love and stuff like that. So yeah, that’s why she came over to America, because she also wanted some economic opportunities too.
Abby Danielsen 1:28
Yeah, that’s really sweet! I knew that, you’ve told me about your step-dad, but I didn’t know that they met in Russia.
Phoebe 1:34
They’re divorced now so… No you’re fine! You’re good. But yeah, no, they did meet in Russia. It was fun.
Abby Danielsen 1:42
Yeah, and that brought you here so that’s cool!
Phoebe 1:42
Yeah, yeah. My mom’s “a mail to order bride” with a kid.
Abby Danielsen 1:49
So, how did you guys make the trip? Like, physically, how did you come?
Phoebe 1:54
Yeah, so physically, well, what had to happen was I’m pretty sure my mom had to, like, be married to my dad in order to like, actually stay in the US for more than some months so she got a visa, after my dad had come here in in Russia and not in here, because this is America. So while he came there, she got a visa to the US. And they got engaged and everything like that. After that we came over on a plane. So it was like the 16 hour plane ride with like, some stopovers. And since I’m from Cheboksary, I actually had to fly to Moscow. So then from Moscow then to, I don’t know, layover in Germany, or France or something. And after that, to America.
Abby Danielsen 2:43
Mm hmm. How close were you from Moscow or St. Petersburg?
Phoebe 2:50
I was just a day’s trip away, which might not sound like much, but obviously, it’s a lot of distance. But, I feel like trains in Russia are really easily affordable. And a lot of people travel by them. I’ve gone to like, when my step-dad did come over to Russia, I went to St. Petersburg just to see him. So then after that, I went to St. Petersburg again, and just like a trip and then to Moscow. And then after that to Russia. Yeah.
Abby Danielsen 3:22
That’s cool. Have you visited? I know that you’ve been back and forth from Russia since moving, but have you visited your hometown?
Phoebe 3:31
Yeah, actually, so in 2016, we actually went to Russia, just to like, I don’t know, I guess just to visit, probably some economic stuff, too. And recently, I went back to my hometown and because I was going back to America, and actually my flight got canceled because of COVID.
Abby Danielsen 3:56
Oh no!
Phoebe 3:57
Yeah, no, it’s fine, it’s just like, it’s weird how that happened. And so I was just like, “Oh, God, I don’t know where I’m staying.” because like, I just recently sold my apartment. Right. And so I went over to my old apartment in Cheboksary and that was nice. It was pretty nice to see all my old stuff that I saw. And yeah, it’s just, it’s not really a small town. It’s way bigger than Roanoke, but it’s way smaller than St. Petersburg. So it was a little uncanny in that way, I guess.
Abby Danielsen 4:26
Yeah! It sucks your flight got canceled, but it’s good that you got to spend some time there.
Phoebe 4:30
I stayed in a capsule home, which is like a great experience. So you know apparently they’re like these little… Oh my god. I was in the Moscow Regional Airport and they had like, little basically beds in like, where you could stay for 24 hours if you’re waiting for your flight and stuff like that. So yeah, and it was just like it was really comfortable. I don’t know. I really liked it.
Abby Danielsen 4:54
That’s good! Look on the brighter side of whatever happens. Okay, so you kind of talked about this already, but another question I had were, what were the push factors for leaving Russia, and the pull factors like for coming into the US.
Phoebe 5:16
So my mom really wanted to go to America because the economic situation and Cheboksary was not, is definitely not great now, but it wasn’t great back then either. There’s a lot of people are moving to St. Petersburg, because they’re looking for jobs. And I think on the better side, and this opportunity, a lot of people don’t have this opportunity, but to move to America to like, end up finding employment and stuff like that. Basically, I guess, like, obviously, the emotional factor was still there for my mom. She wanted to move in with this guy who she was just like, “Oh, great, like a husband who loves me” and stuff like that. But she also wanted a good future for me because graduating from an American school would mean that I have access to everywhere around the world. Especially she was thinking about college and stuff there; Russian colleges aren’t really taken as seriously as a US education. And I guess, that’s pretty much the reasons why she ended up choosing to go over to America. So yeah, love and also money.
Abby Danielsen 6:27
They’re important factors.
Phoebe 6:28
Yeah, true.
Abby Danielsen 6:29
Do you remember any legal issues that you guys had to face when coming into America? I know you were pretty young.
Phoebe 6:37
I was pretty young, but I do remember getting my passport and stuff done. There weren’t any legal issues as much as stuff that you did have to do in order to be able to stay in the US. So like, for example, my mom had to pretty much, like a month for maybe three months after we’d gotten there, they’d actually got married at a courthouse so it would be official. And so my mom would eventually, like get, like after… So the standard procedure for immigrants is to get their ability to register for citizenship after 10 years of living in the US, but if you’re married to someone, and that boils it down to three years, so after three years, she could have gotten her citizenship, which would have gotten me citizenship too, except she got her citizenship after I turned 18. So now, I don’t have my citizenship so that’s a legal issue of like, I need to do that to actually be a citizen of the US, and vote and be able to access stuff. Besides that, we did actually have to, like, go back and forth like 2016, we also had to go back to Russia to renew my passport there. And my mom also had to go back to Russia, I think before that for a summer, or maybe after that, sorry, I don’t really know, to renew her passport and renew my passport and do some legal stuff. Currently, we have a house in Russia that’s not really being occupied. Well, our relatives are occupying it, so my cousins. But since we own it, so there’s some legal stuff there. And that’s kind of also another reason why I went back to Russia.
Abby Danielsen 8:19
That’s nice. You have a house there, though, so you don’t have to worry about that.
Phoebe 8:22
Yeah, well, it’s not a house, it’s an apartment, but it’s still a pretty big apartment. It’s like two bedrooms, three bedrooms, actually.
Abby Danielsen 8:29
I know that you at least grew up in Roanoke for the latter part of adolescence, but did you guys move straight to Roanoke?
Phoebe 8:45
Yes, we did move straight to Roanoke. And especially like, when I came over, I came over to DC on my first flight and so we had to, like drive the five hour or four hour trip back to Roanoke. And I remember stopping at this American food store. And I just had a steak for the first time in my life. That’s not really you wouldn’t assume that’s like American because like, it’s not a hamburger or something like that. But I remember not liking it at all. So yeah. But yeah we went straight to Roanoke.
Abby Danielsen 9:17
I’ve never been a big steak person either.
Phoebe 9:19
Yeah no.
Abby Danielsen 9:21
So how was your experience when you first moved to Roanoke? Like that transition for you.
Phoebe 9:27
Well, the transition, I think with the school system, in particular, it was a little bit hard. I think for the first month, or maybe a week I really don’t remember since it’s such a long time ago, my mom like came to school with me. I should probably ask her about this, but it doesn’t really come up, but she was in there with me for like a little bit. Just so I wouldn’t be in a completely new environment, not knowing the language and just not knowing what the fuck to do. But then I got ESL classes as soon as I came to America and I ended up learning English pretty fast, in like six months. So after that I ended up speaking well, and because I learned English so fast I got placed into the advanced program. But besides like when I didn’t really know this much English I guess people saw me as a kind of novelty. It’s just like, “Oh this weird foreign kid”. Like I know Amelia, Amelia, remember from our high school? She was just like, I remember everyone’s talking and she was just like, “Oh, you were so cute when you didn’t know how to speak English. I remember using a notebook to talk to you with pictures.” And I was just like, “Yeah, cool.” because I was just like, you know. Of course, it’s not like there’s no ill will from kids because I was just among nine year olds, but definitely people treated me as some sort of attraction. And when they did, like I know that’s because some girls made friends with me, but I know that there was this one guy who was just like, I he called me like, “You’re a communist! You’re a red!” or something. You know, a young version of slurs. Definitely some pushback from kids that are more ignorant and maybe their parents really hated Russia or something they grew up with that stuff.
Abby Danielsen 11:26
Yeah, no, I can imagine that that would be difficult, learning English, but having people be like, “Oh my gosh, this is so cute that you can’t speak English!”
Phoebe 11:37
Yeah, no, definitely. And there’s just this feeling of being other from your classmates, but that did eventually, since I went into Plato, like it, the relation, the dynamic really changed, because then I was just like the new kid since I knew how to speak English.
Abby Danielsen 11:53
Yeah, that’s good!
Phoebe 11:54
I know these two kids that were in my ESL class, they stayed in, like I guess they didn’t get put into the honors program. So I just wonder what their experience was like, because I feel like staying with a bunch of kids that kind of teased you a little bit or, like you said, they’re just like you felt a otherness from them. It’s just like, I wonder how that experience was.
Abby Danielsen 12:23
We have a pretty established ESL program in high school. And I feel like a lot of the kids in there were in that classroom for a long time throughout the day.
Phoebe 12:35
Yeah.
Abby Danielsen 12:35
And there’s obviously nothing wrong with that.
Phoebe 12:37
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Abby Danielsen 12:39
But I can imagine that there would be a lot of like, I don’t know, just like a struggle to fit in I guess because of that.
Phoebe 12:46
Yeah, just in general, because like high school is just such a time and a person’s life. But I feel like it’s good that Highland Park had a really good ESL program and my ESL teacher was really good. She gave me a little souvenir after I had stopped coming to her classes; she gave me this little wooden camel that I still have.
Abby Danielsen 12:50
Aw! That’s so sweet
Phoebe 13:06
Yeah, I know. It’s weird, but she was really sweet. And she was really easy to understand. So yeah, ended up being good.
Abby Danielsen 13:14
Did you speak any English before moving?
Phoebe 13:16
I only knew basic phrases like apple or, “Hello, my name is Phoebe” and stuff like that. But besides that, I didn’t know anything since I just started learning English the year prior. So like second grade?
Abby Danielsen 13:30
It’s good that you got in, though, when you were young because learning a language when you’re older is so hard.
Phoebe 13:35
Yeah, oh, my God. I know, like, tell me about. I’m trying to learn languages now. And I’m just like, “No, it’s just not working”.
Abby Danielsen 13:44
Same here. Do you think it was overall difficult to make the adjustment once you immigrated?
Phoebe 13:55
I feel like for a few months, it was definitely really difficult for me. I got support from my mom; my stepdad, I mean, he just didn’t end up being a great person in the end, so that’s why the divorce was a little more hard on me. I feel like once middle school came, but I mean, in elementary school, I remember… Yeah, it was definitely hard to adjust to a new life. But I mean, since I was so young, it was definitely easier than it would have been if I was older, I think. Yeah. I don’t know, it’s a weird question because that’s so far back that I don’t really think about it all that much and, you know.
Abby Danielsen 14:37
I think that you’re looking at it from a positive perspective, so that’s good!
Phoebe 14:43
Yeah. I mean, like, you can’t change the past.
Abby Danielsen 14:47
Yeah there’s no point in focusing on it.
Phoebe 14:51
Yeah, yeah, true. Seriously, that’s like some, I want to say Einstein stuff, but like, it’s just like some philosophical stuff. I don’t know.
Abby Danielsen 15:00
Thank you!
Phoebe 15:00
Yeah no problem!
Abby Danielsen 14:58
So when you guys move to Roanoke, do you think that Roanoke itself was accommodating in easing your transition? You talked a little bit about how your elementary school had a really good ESL program. What about the city?
Phoebe 15:19
I kind of can’t answer this question because I was nine years old when I came. So, the stuff that I had to accommodate for was like, you know, just stuff that my mom like, took me to places and stuff like that. So, um, yeah, definitely, the school was very accommodating. For legal stuff we went to DC since like where you have to, you know, it’s like the, fuck. Is DC the capital of the United States?
Abby Danielsen 15:54
Yeah.
Phoebe 15:55
Sorry, I’m really bad with my geography. So yeah, a bunch of important legal stuff was there. But in Roanoke, when I first came here, I think like, out of school, I still did a program for a little bit with someone, just so I could get adjusted to like going to school and figure out how to, how a school system worked. And I’m pretty sure that, now that I think about it, it could have been taken care of by a social worker, cuz that makes sense, since they, you know, take care of people.
Abby Danielsen 16:37
Yeah.
Phoebe 16:37
I don’t know, yeah. Besides like, my schooling being accommodating, not much more that I could say about that.
Abby Danielsen 16:45
It’s good that your school was accommodating.
Phoebe 16:47
Yeah, seriously.
Abby Danielsen 16:50
I mean, high school and like, middle school and high school were difficult, just a time in your life, but moving to such a new place as such a young kid would be, like I can imagine that that would be really hard.
Phoebe 17:03
it couldn’t be like, devastating to be fair, but like for me it was good.
Abby Danielsen 17:06
Yeah, that’s good! So the next question I have is about kind of like your identity, and your nationality. So like, have you, or did you, and do you feel American?
Phoebe 17:33
Mmmm, So I’m not American enough to really… I feel like to fit in with people of my generation, I am, since, obviously, your most formable years are like in middle school and high school, and I grew up among American kids in middle school in high school. So in that way, I do feel American and that I can relate to anyone, just by talking, then a lot of people are just like, “Oh my god, I didn’t even know you’re Russian” and stuff like that. But definitely when I’m in Russia, for example, this past year that I was there. I felt this other alienation, like I’m not Russian enough to be in Russia. So it’s just a little bit of a weird tangle between like, yeah, I’m definitely like, I feel two identities. Like, I think I’m a first generation immigrant, right, since I just moved here?
Abby Danielsen 18:28
Mhmm.
Phoebe 18:28
Yeah. So I definitely feel that that term really applies to me, because I feel like by the second generation and third generation, like your parents are already here, like your grandparents. So it’s a little bit easier to feel American than when you like, actually moved.
Abby Danielsen 18:29
So, when you were trying to figure out your identity as a whole, like, those good old preteen and teen years, trying to figure everything out. Was it difficult for you to like, figure out your nationality in terms of your identity.
Phoebe 19:09
Let me think. I feel like since middle school, I kind of like… That’s, that’s a really good question. And it’s good, because it’s like, it’s making me think about how I came to my identity. I feel like, I’m Russian foremost, like, I’m a Russian immigrant foremost, but I never identify myself as that, like, as soon as I talk to people, and I don’t think that that’s the number one thing that people see about me. I mean, obviously, since I’m a person, that’s not all that I talk about, but there is definitely like a sort of alienation that I felt from my peers in elementary school that I think maybe carried over to middle school because in middle school, I was kind of just like, I wasn’t really communicating with my peers and stuff like that until like eighth grade, which I really decided to push myself and to just go out and like talk to people. And so in high school that sort of otherness from people didn’t really matter to me as much that I felt that it mattered in my teen teen years, because, well, I mean, obviously, in high school, you’re still a teenager, but it’s like you find the, I found a place to fit in among, you know, like theater and stuff like that and just like the more creative people. So it wasn’t really all that hard for me to kind of disassociate myself from the identity of being an immigrant since that wasn’t the foremost front thing, like in my mind. It was more like, building relationships with people and like, it’s just like, “Am I their friend, or like, their friend?” Like, my identity didn’t really matter to me that much in high school.
Abby Danielsen 20:55
Yeah, I think that’s good. I can imagine that people would have an internal struggle with figuring that out.
Phoebe 21:01
Yeah, definitely.
Abby Danielsen 21:01
Hearing, it’s like, “you’re not American enough, or you’re not Russian enough.” But yeah, it’s good to hear that that like wasn’t really the case for you. Like figuring out your identity. And I mean, we met in ninth grade. Yeah. And I never saw you as a token Russian friend or whatever. You were just a friend!
Phoebe 21:26
I do feel like I identify, well, since I am half Asian, at least on my dad’s side; He’s Kazakhstani. I feel like I identify a lot with people of color, since I am a person of color I identify with other people of color, obviously. But in a way that’s just like, since I didn’t actually know like, where my dad had come from until like, I asked my mom in middle school. So like, since I didn’t know, I was just like, basically, I thought of myself as white, but an immigrant, but after I found out that I’m not actually, I’m not as white as I think even though like, I’m white passing. It’s a little weird, because I feel like I could, let me put it this way. It’s way more simple connecting to non white people for me. You know, it’s just like cuz non white, non upper class or like, upper middle class people I feel like I have a more easy way of understanding because I came from poverty in Russia and the economic situation didn’t really change all that much since I came here. Like right now. It’s definitely not like that I moved up like, echelons of classes and stuff like that. I was basically like, poor there. And I am poor here now. So it’s just weird. Yeah. It’s like… I don’t know.
Abby Danielsen 22:57
Yeah. And you have the added identity, I guess, being a woman of color. Yeah, that’s important, and I’m glad that you do have that. As a white woman, I can’t understand.
Phoebe 23:15
Of course, but still. It’s just like, it’s cool that you’re so understanding and just like are well, it’s good that you’re attentive to and listen to people of color when they’re talking about stuff like that.
Abby Danielsen 23:27
Well thank you. Honestly, the least I can do.Yeah, so that was really interesting. Thank you for sharing all of that.
Phoebe 23:35
Oh, no, no problem.
Abby Danielsen 23:38
So I had another question. I think about identity or whatever, but it kind of blanked.
Phoebe 23:46
Okay.
Abby Danielsen 23:47
But like with about high school and stuff and we knew each other there, do you have any like, when you were talking about people kind of tokenizing you in elementary school, was that the same experience later on?
Phoebe 24:03
Later on? I feel like besides stuff, being kind of joking like, “Oh, this is Phoebe , she’s my Russian friend” like not really. Especially to people that I closely connected to I feel like since, like you said, you didn’t see me as like my token Russian friend, you just saw me as Phoebe, this girl that I share classes with and stuff like that. I know that for a bunch of immigrants that are older than me or that maybe didn’t assimilate as fast as I did into American culture, it was a little bit harder for them to. Oh yeah, there’s actually another Russian immigrant our senior year. You remember Megan? Maybe not.
Abby Danielsen 24:04
I’m not sure I ever met her.
Phoebe 24:46
Yeah, probably not. I think I just like, but I remember her and she did feel like there was this sort of tokeness about her like, especially to American kids. She was like in ESL classes, so she made friends with the ESL kids. But, well in her regular classes, she definitely, people talked to her because it’s just like, “Oh, cool that like, you’re Russian, like, you’re different than us, So like, that’s why we’re gonna talk to you.” For me since I lived in America for such a long time, that didn’t really happen. But I know for her because our like, my mom is friends with her mom and so like, we occasionally talk, she’s like a hairdresser, she does my hair. Occasionally I get to talk to Megan about that. And I think that’s like, I don’t want to put words in her mouth, but from what I’ve heard, that’s her experience that she had, she did have a little bit of a tokenisation problem with kids in the school.
Abby Danielsen 25:42
I think that that is more of a problem than people realize it is.
Phoebe 25:47
Definitely.
Abby Danielsen 25:48
People want to make their friend groups diverse, but at the same time, they’re not doing it for the right reasons.
Phoebe 25:55
Yeah, no, it’s just like, you definitely should just make friends because you want to know this person and not like, why are you trying to diversify your friend group more? It’s good to, you know, be friends with a lot of people, but definitely make friends with them for the right reasons because it’s just like, “Oh, I want like a black friend.”
Abby Danielsen 26:16
Yeah, it’s not good.
Phoebe 26:17
Yeah. No, yeah. It’s just like, that’s unwoke, come on.
Abby Danielsen 26:22
I know, people, I don’t want to like name drop or anything but, people that we were friends with in high school would say things like, “Why all of you guys only friends with straight people.” And like, although it is a problem to limit yourself I guess, but like, yeah, don’t have gay friends for the sake of having gay friends.
Phoebe 26:44
Yeah, seriously.
Abby Danielsen 26:45
That’s not true friendship at all.
Phoebe 26:47
No, I feel like oh my gosh, that’s like, the same experience like now, I met up with my friend in DC. We started talking in middle school, I don’t know, we were just onto some forum of a cartoon we watched and anything. Yeah, I met up with her and I spent a week with her that year, my senior year in high school. And so she was asking me about, she’s an Iranian immigrant, and she was asking me about like, I don’t know if it’s actually Iran or Persia, anyways, hold up. But she was asking me, “Why are you only friends with, like, theater kids?” And just like these straight white people, because that’s not her experience. And I was just like, well, I don’t know. I feel like I mean, there is something to be said. Because I felt like I kind of forced myself into that culture, because I was just like, “Oh, well, I have to have friends.” Because like I said, I was kind of a loner in sixth grade and seventh grade. So like, eighth grade, I was just like, “Oh, let’s just, like hang out with these people.” And so just like I did, and I did theater, like a group theater thing in middle school. I don’t, I literally have no idea what year. And I think as an immigrant, you really choose who to be friends with. And you choose, or like, just as a person you kind of like, I don’t know. There’s like this point about minorities, like you can choose what sort of culture you’re going to be friends with? I feel like, maybe if you like, don’t think about that or like, maybe if you’re a kid that moved into a new city? I have no idea. I don’t know the point that I’m trying to formulate here.
Abby Danielsen 28:34
No, I understand what you’re saying.
Phoebe 28:34
I definitely chose my friend group, but also, like, I was friends with them. So it’s not like I could just talk to like, a whole new group of people, you know?
Abby Danielsen 28:46
I mean, I guess in a similar way that like, I could have chosen friends or chosen to be friends with like, the popular kids. It’s just more prevalent.
Phoebe 29:00
Yeah. She basically had like, a bunch of friends like of the LGBT community, you know? So like she’s bisexual herself and she was just like, “Imagine being friends with straight people” and I was just like, “Yeah, it’s my everyday life.” And obviously, there’s like a thing to be said about just wanting to be closer to your community, but also it’s just like, you know, straight people aren’t that bad.
Abby Danielsen 29:23
Theater was pretty diverse in that regard.
Phoebe 29:29
It was pretty diverse. Definitely a lot of white people in there.
Abby Danielsen 29:39
We don’t have to talk about the productions that we completely whitewashed.
Phoebe 29:44
Oh my god, yeah. And Mr. Smith just being casually racist. Maybe you need to bleep that name out.
Abby Danielsen 29:52
I haven’t thought about him in a long time.
Phoebe 29:57
Yeah, oh my god.
Abby Danielsen 30:00
It got better when, I don’t know if I should say the name, but when the director after him came in. Just because she was an incredible director. Yeah, she was really great.
Phoebe 30:17
Also she wasn’t an old white fuddy duddy.
Abby Danielsen 30:23
For the sake of my audio, she’s like, confident and strong black woman and that was definitely what we needed for that department.
Phoebe 30:31
Seriously. Especially I feel like there was a lot of typecasting and a lot of just like the PH players that were like people of color because like we had just like kids from all over that wanted to do plays. A lot of them didn’t end up being considered because they weren’t a part of theater originally. Or they weren’t like Mr. Smith’s favorite little pets or whatever.
Abby Danielsen 30:31
No exactly.
Phoebe 30:39
And that’s like, But there was just a lot of kids that were just, I don’t know, it’s crazy. It’s crazy to think about.
Abby Danielsen 31:08
To focus on a pro of our high school theater, that’s how we became friends.
Phoebe 31:15
Yeah! God, remember Stardust?
Abby Danielsen 31:18
Yeah, it’s crazy to think about.
Phoebe 31:21
What a world, what a world we live in.
Abby Danielsen 31:23
Yeah, there’s something nostalgic about it. But also I don’t really miss it.
Phoebe 32:08
Yeah, definitely. Oh, my God. Yeah, theater is definitely a good time. I want to know how it was for people that weren’t like… There was such a friend group of people who got cast to stuff, you know? It’s just I want to know how it was for other people.
Abby Danielsen 32:25
And I feel like because, I mean, I did tech crew, so it was fun to be outside. And like, I don’t have any experience acting in the theater, but it was fun to be outside of the main group of people who always got casted. Like the popular actors.
Phoebe 32:45
That’s like during Into The Woods, I always came over to your guys’s little tent. I was just like, “It’s a little more fun in here. It’s a little more chill. There’s a lot less drama.”
Abby Danielsen 32:56
I don’t know if it was less pressure, I guess. But it was nice to be out of that inner circle.
Phoebe 33:03
Yeah. No, I feel like in that inner circle, there’s a lot of pressure to like, put on airs or something like that. But at the same time, I don’t know, since obviously I did theater, I was in that circle. But also I was like, in you know, Holly eventually ended up doing theater, Ham as I call her. But I was also friends with a bunch of Woodrow kids who didn’t do theater like, Eloise, Amy, and Molly. Molly ended up doing theater too. So I definitely did have that group to fall back on if the theater got too much and stuff like that.
Abby Danielsen 33:36
That’s good, too. And that was like a stable group too.
Phoebe 33:39
I don’t know if Margot, Noah and Piper still talk to each other. I really want to know, though.
Abby Danielsen 33:47
I don’t know either. That’s interesting.
Phoebe 34:30
Well, anyways, that’s reminiscing too much. You could go on about the interview questions.
Abby Danielsen 34:36
Yeah, to completely change gears. So I’m assuming that you guys have a lot, or at least a few traditional Russian cultural practices and whatever that you practiced when you were there. But tell me about how that changed or stayed the same after immigrating.
Phoebe 35:00
Well, actually for cultural practices, I don’t think that there was a lot of things at all. I think that like, for example, we celebrate New Year instead of Christmas in Russia. So that definitely changed. I started celebrating Christmas instead of New Year’s, but me and my mom still would celebrate New Year’s by ourselves. And there’s not really, actually, there’s not a culture of Christianity in Russia the same way that there’s a culture of Christianity here. So like, for example, like a Creaster, what I was, like a person that went to church on Easter and Christmas, that didn’t exist in Russia. You went to church on like, there’s like this day, масленица, it’s this day where the church gives out food to people. So like, even if you’re homeless, you have to wait in line for people to give out food. I mean, I wasn’t really a church going person in Russia either. Like, for example, I never did that. I don’t think, of course, that’s again a super long time ago, so I wouldn’t remember even if I did. But I do remember the only times I did go to a church in Russia was when I was remembering an old like a person that passed away. So like, for example, like my mom, her mom, my grandma passed away, and like, we’d go to church on her birthday to put a candle for her, light a candle for her. And that culture doesn’t exist at all here. So like, it was just very different adapting to a new form of Christianity, which I’m not even Christian myself. But like as far as cultures go, there’s not really that much of a shift, for example, like me being Chuvash, they’re like, I feel like if I grew up in Russia, I would have way more of an identity of being Chuvash, because we were actually taught it in schools. You know, like, my cousins who lived Cheboksary their whole lives can still speak it. Meanwhile, I don’t remember anything at all from the language, my mom can still speak it a little bit. There’s a little bit of a culture there. We have festivals, we have our own national attire and stuff like that. My dad wasn’t really in the picture, so there’s nothing from my Kazakhstani side. I mean, since I lived in the city, and I moved to a smaller city, it was maybe a little bit actually weird to adjust to not having public transport and stuff like that, but that’s not really a culture thing, so.
Abby Danielsen 37:44
That’s still a relevant change.
Phoebe 37:48
It was definitely super different, especially with healthcare, oh, my God. When I went back this year I was able to do everything. If I was a little bit sick, just like go to the doctor. I have these stress warts that pop up occasionally, I can just go to the doctor for free completely, and just remove them, and my wisdom teeth, also removed for free. So yeah, just like America not having any health care system at all. Stuff like that definitely changed.
Abby Danielsen 38:23
This is kind of off topic, too, but I’m planning on studying abroad in London next fall. And I’m not exactly sure how their healthcare is. because they’d had like a few political changes, more than a few but like, I’m just not super educated on their politics.
Phoebe 38:41
But I mean, that’s no, that’s understandable because I was talking to a friend that lives in Britain. I don’t think it’s in London, but he goes to college there. And he’s studying game design and I want to study game design. So, I was talking to him, I was just like, “What’s the course there?” And I really wanted to know what the healthcare system there was because I’d be moving there and like, what if I break a leg or something? There’s no information like that online. It’s so hard to find, I mean maybe I’m not looking for the right stuff. I just don’t really know what the policies are. Are you going to be studying in a specific school there?
Abby Danielsen 39:30
So, JMU has a program that’s JMU in London, so it’s not through another school.
Phoebe 39:39
Gotcha.
Abby Danielsen 39:41
But I think they have universal health care.
Phoebe 39:43
Okay. Uh huh.
Abby Danielsen 39:46
That’s gonna be a big change. From avoiding the doctor completely to like, “I might as well go crazy.” That sounds ridiculous. But, if I’m doing something spontaneous, I don’t have to worry about potentially hurting myself but not being able to afford it.
Phoebe 40:06
I didn’t really party, but I partied by myself a lot in Russia, since it’s really cold outside. Wow, what a surprise in St. Petersburg.
Abby 40:18
Gotta stay warm.
Phoebe 40:26
So hey, if I did get alcohol poisoning I’d be able to get it cured there.
Abby 40:34
You would’ve been covered!
Phoebe 40:40
I wanted to get my tonsils removed, they wouldn’t do that because the tonsils are really important in your body for regulating infections and stuff like that. Especially during COVID, they were like, “Okay, no, that’s not happening because what if you get COVID?” And they’re working fine but I do have tonsil stones, these little white balls that smell horrible, they’re from food particles so like that sucks. That was such a problem for me and eventually I was like, “What can I do about this?”. And my cousin, who I call my sister, which is another cultural thing. Actually, I’ll save that thought, but she was just like, “Go to the doctor, she’ll just do that for you in like two minutes,” and I went, and she found like seven tonsil stones in me but my throat was clear by the end of it. But the cultural thing, so in Russia, you know how like the nuclear family dynamic is really popular in America, so you’re neighbors don’t raise your kids, only you raise your kids. In Russia it wasn’t like that, especially living in an apartment complex, well most of Russia lives in apartment complexes not actual houses. So my whole building raised me almost. I went out to play with all the kids in the apartment, there’s people that I call aunt to this day that are not at all related to me but they took care of me when I was younger, so obviously I’m going to call them auntie or stuff like that. Also, when went back to see тётя тамра, thats Aunt Tamara, it was cool because we’re not related at all but she took care of me, she was like my mom’s friend when I was younger. She took me in, she fed me, she was just like, “You can stay at my place if you want, if it’s too lonely there at your house.”
Abby 42:48
That’s special!
Phoebe 42:50
There’s so much more unity and community in Russia and in Russian culture that I didn’t get to experience while I was here. Like my mom would have known all of my friends parents meanwhile I feel like my mom didn’t know any of my friends’ parents really here. But that’s her story, not mine.
Abby 43:14
Despite not having that here, I’m glad that you got to go back to it in russia and the dynamics were the same.
Phoebe 43:22
Yeah, seriously. I’m so close to my cousins which is just really weird because I just call them brother and sister but like obviously… I have a nephew who’s 18, so it was super weird, he was just like, “I’m applying to college” and I was like, “Wow I’m not in college yet, I’m your aunt” I’m literally just two years older than him, it’s crazy. And we’re buds and I’m buds with his cousin too who’s his mom.
Abby 43:52
That’s good, I’m glad you got to see them! You talked a little bit about how you haven’t gotten your citizenship in the US yet, and you talked about your mom waiting to get hers. Can you just talk a bit more about that process or what it means to you to have your citizenship?
Phoebe 44:16
For me there’s not much need for a citizenship besides the fact that I would be able to visit a lot of European countries without having a visa. Since I plan on studying in Europe and that was supposed to be the plan before COVID hit and the whole entire aspect of getting a college education much less traveling anywhere went out the door. That’s like the only reason why I need a citizen besides I don’t really think I’ll be living here. Having healthcare is really important to me, I’m not neurotypical so like I need to like, I have depression. So the whole process of getting medicated here, which I can now through a free clinic. Why I didn’t get my citizenship, that’s because it costs $700, we just didn’t have that amount of money to spend on something. Why I’m looking to get my citizenship right now is so that I can travel to European countries without having to get a visa which would cost not as much as $700, but also so I can travel to European countries and then get healthcare. Basically the only reason why I want to move out of the US is to get healthcare. Basically why I want to become a US citizen is very much linked to my reasons to want to get out of the US.
Abby 46:04
That’s really interesting, I’ve never of it like that before. But your reason makes so much sense.
Phoebe 46:13
If I didn’t have depression, if I broke an arm, that’s like 30k out the window. I can’t afford that at all.
Abby 46:27
That’s awful, I mean I’m not planning on living in the US like into my later adult life. And I know you spent some time in Russia, and you’ve talked about that before. Were you an English teacher?
Phoebe 46:47
Yeah, I was an english teacher and eventually I went into social media marketing. Thats super weird how i got that job, its just by speaking English basically i got it. So that’s just a custom service job I had like my last three months of being in russia. Before that I was an English teacher, and I had some success there. I was teaching for one school but they weren’t paying me enough so I quit from there. And then I was going to actually teach in China before my mom said no and that she’s never helping me. I was unemployed for a month so I had to get some help from her for bills. But eventually I got another job in English teaching, then I quit that one. That’s like my employment history basically.
Abby 46:42
You lived in St Petersburg right?
Phoebe 47:44
Yeah.
Abby 47:45
How was that?
Poebe 47:46
It was awesome. Well first of all the metro system, it’s just like Jesus Christ, that’s like so good. Just like not having to sit in the car for like an hour to travel anywhere and being able to get literally anywhere with the public transport is amazing. That’s what I want for every country ever, or every city. Besides that it’s like, it has so much cultural significance and cultural significance, like the architecture there. I went on a tour about the architecture and got to hear a bunch of stuff about it. During the winter I had a job from home, before COVID, I didn’t get to go out much because it was so cold. But even still if I did go out it was just so beautiful, it’s just a beautiful city, I think everyone should visit it.
Abby 48:40
Yeah that’s nice! And it’s good that you got to go too, I’m assuming that you really like big cities in general. But that would be really nice to go to out of roanoke because roanoke isn’t, it’s a city but like…
Phoebe 48:53
It’s so small! It’s tiny! A city was like two million people at least, not like 100,000 like Roanoke.
Abby 49:05
How was coming back to America after being away for so long?
Phoebe 49:09
I came back to Seattle initially, because I was going to stay in Seattle, but I had to move back because my mom was worried about me and worried about herself because she’s working in healthcare so what if she got sick? Like what would she do? So she wanted me to move back here, so I ended up moving back. Moving from Russia to Seattle even, moving from St. Petersburg to Seattle, that was still such a different experience, because even while Seattle has public transportation its completely non-intuitive like Russia’s is, I feel like. But obviously I stayed there for less than a month so that doesn’t really… maybe I could’ve figured it out eventually. Like you have to smile at people if you pass them but in Russia you just look down on the ground, it’s very private. You don’t really have to make small talk form the people you’re buying stuff from or getting your coffee from. Very different culture in the fact that we keep to ourselves completely. Different people from different places; who knew?
Abby 50:29
I feel like those would be a big shock too. Like its little interactions, but in the grand scheme of things, how you interact with people like that would be weird.
Phoebe 50:40
I know it’s definitely different, like you said that you’re going to London soon, or like next year but that’s just like, it’s definitely going to be different for you to go to London from America. But if you went from America to Russia that would be even more different cuz it’s just like super private people, but also, if you do get to talking to someone they’re just gonna like drop their whole life on you. For example, like I got these brooches from this woman who was selling a lot of brooches and she was just like, “Yeah so my son’s in the military because he didn’t want to go to college and he didn’t know what to do” and there’s mandatory military service for guys who don’t go to college in russia. So like I knew all about her life by the time that I was finished shopping just because I bought a bunch of stuff from her. People are very friendly if you get to know them and start conversations but usually people don’t start conversations on the street or while shopping for their stuff.
Abby 51:38
That’s really interesting, I feel like there’s something nice about that; no pressure with small talk.
Phoebe 51:42
Yeah no it’s nice, definitely. It’s really cute, I really like the culture. Maybe I was just away from it for so long.
Abby 51:51
Another question I have is, we talked about this a little bit, but how have your views about living in the US changed? How have they changed if they have? Just tell me about that a little bit.
Phoebe 52:05
I definitely didn’t think I had, just coming back from Russia, I really just, I did have it all. I was able to live on my own and grocery shop, just like the freedom from living by yourself and being able to go anywhere, as well as having healthcare if anything like that happened to you. Or just like being independent too, just like paying all of my views and figuring out all the stuff like getting people to fix stuff while I’m at my house. I feel like here there’s so much more hoops that you have to jump through to do stuff. Especially since like in the medical field. It’s completely different how you pay bills here, like you pay it to the government. I just think that America really needs to unionize? That’s not the word, but get a bunch of like… obviously like get universal healthcare as soon as possible, get rent control as soon as possible. Owning a place like while I was in Russia and coming back here, it’s just like if I want to move into my own place, because right now I’m living with my mom, I like cant cuz its not only going to be so much more expensive it’s like you’re landlord is usually a piece of shit. And in Russia you could actually own apartment buildings instead of having to rent them, like apartment rooms.
Abby 53:41
Having all of your freedom, not just within yourself I guess, but within healthcare and transportation and all that, that would be hard to come back to and not have that.
Phoebe 53:53
Yeah definitely. I’m planning to get out next year so hey!
Abby 53:59
That’s exciting! My last question is where do you see yourself living in the next few years and what would you like to be doing?
Phoebe 54:08
I’m going to be living somewhere in Europe in the next few years. Right now I’m looking at colleges and stuff like that because last year I didn’t get a chance really to apply. Well I did actually apply to some colleges in the Netherlands but they rejected me, so. The education standards in the EU and America are super different so you really just have to look at what college is right for you and stuff like that. What do I see myself doing in the next few years? Well hopefully i’ll be working in game design. Right now I’m taking a course that’s going to have me making four games by the end of the year. And eventually I’m going to hopefully make some stuff that will inspire other people, like the stuff that I read and played and like watched that inspired me to want to make art. That’s something that I’m really passionate about, that’s what i really want to do in life so I’m going to try my best to do it.
Abby 55:16
That’s wonderful, that’s a really beautiful goal!
Phoebe 55:19
Well thanks! When I’ve talked to employers when i’m trying to teach english or do marketing, right now I’m just like, “I want to major in business! I don’t know, maybe I’ll stay at this job for 10 years.” it’s completely opposite to talk about something you actually want to do. That was a nice question, so thank you.
Abby 55:50
My plans for my senior year, because I’m a junior now, I’m planning on studying in London in the fall and in Florence, Italy in the spring.
Phoebe 56:01
Oh, my god!
Abby 56:01
So if you’re anywhere near that…
Phoebe 56:05
You’re going to be so close to everything! Hopefully I’m gonna be studying in Finland because that’s close to Russia, super close to St. Petersburg, literally a day’s trip. So if there’s ever a family emergency I could just go down.
Abby 56:20
That’d be really cool.
Phoebe 56:21
Yeah no that would be really amazing. I’ll definitely visit you if I’m in Europe at the same time.
Abby 56:26
Please do!
Phoebe 56:27
Of course!
Abby 56:28
And I’ll come to Scandinavia; they’re happier there. That’s all I have for you!
Phoebe 56:35
Thank you! Fun interview, fun talking to you again.
Abby 56:37
Thank you!
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