"Why don't you go home where you came from?"
Simone O’Brien and I met while my family and I were living in Ansbach, Germany from 2011-2013, as my father and her husband worked together on the local U.S. military installation. Our families became close family friends, and, specifically, my mom and Simone became quite close and still keep in touch. This personal relationship meant that I felt comfortable speaking with her, and vice versa, and made the interview feel quite relaxed and nonchalant. This interview was done over Zoom, with the interviewer, Grace Lawler, residing in her room in Harrisonburg, Virginia, and the interviewee, Simone, in her home in Bavaria, Germany. The interview was arranged over Facebook messenger, and we decided on a time that worked for both of us. Thankfully, the time difference between the U.S. and Germany did not prove to be an obstacle.
Simone was born on a farm in a modest village in Bavaria, Germany. She was raised in post-WWII Germany, when the Berlin Wall separated communist East Germany, from capitalist West Germany from 1961 to 1989 (History.com Editors, 2009). The wall was built by the German Democratic Republic (East Germany), as they claimed they wanted to keep fascists West German ideals out, but in actuality, they just wanted to keep the East German people in (History.com Editors, 2009). The Berlin Wall represented a physical barrier for many and could’ve become one for Simone O’Brien too as she was asked at the U.S. consulate office in Frankfurt, Germany if she, or her family, had any association with the East German Stasi, or secret police, and what her feelings were about socialism before being granted a visa to the U.S (Cameron, n.d.). Despite this questioning, however, Simone stated that she felt as though the individuals that were inquiring about her life were just doing their job, and were not being rude or discriminatory towards her. Since Simone was born and raised in West Germany, she believes she led a more “spoiled” life as she had access to good health care and education. At the age of fifteen, she began working towards her beautician’s license in trade school, which she completed at the age of eighteen. She worked in Germany until her mid-twenties, when she met her then-boyfriend, John O’Brien. Three years later, in 1994, Simone and John were married and immigrated to the United States of America when she was twenty-four. The main reason for Simone immigrating to the U.S. was that her husband, John, was in the military and received orders to go to Fort Bliss, Texas. She lived in the U.S. for a total of fourteen years, and resided in Colorado for almost all of those fourteen years.
Simone (left), with daughter Alinnah, and husband John at the state fair.
It is often the case that when an immigrant migrates somewhere, the destination they go to is not chosen randomly, but it is chosen because a community of other immigrants lives and thrives there. This theory, written about by Massey and Zarrugh, is known as the social network theory, and, to expand upon the concept more, it occurs when an immigrant moves to a new place and discovers that there are not only job opportunities for immigrants, but a community of immigrants has formed, who have opened up cultural restaurants, stores, and churches, and who practice the traditions of said culture. After seeing this great community, the aforementioned new individual may tell their friends and family members from their home country about this great community and the work that exists there, and encourage them, or invite them, to move there too. While Simone O’Brien did not have a choice as far as where she moved to in the U.S., due to her husband being a member of the military, the social network theory did greatly benefit her. This is because she was able to join a pre-existing community of Germans, Austrians, and other immigrants. In fact, she said that it was the “networking inside of the German community” that allowed her to make friends, find a place of employment, and “establish” herself in her new home.
Simone (right) with her newly found friends
For instance, she worked at an airport doing security and was told about the job by her husband’s coworker’s wife, who was a German woman, and when she started the job she discovered that three German women worked there in total. She became friends with these women and has remained in touch with them. Additionally, in Colorado, she worked for a German woman at a hair salon during the weekdays, and on the weekend she worked at a German bakery and deli where she could buy “German goods, from music to lunch meat.” She also noted that she appreciated being able to speak to other Germans, as well as Americans, about their experiences at the store as this helped her to better understand American culture as well as stay connected to her own culture. She also celebrated German traditions with her group of German friends such as “traditional [German] Santa Claus on the sixth of December,” “the Christkindl,” and “the Easter holidays” which allowed them all to gather with people who “thought and felt the way we [they] did.” Additionally, these cultural celebrations allowed her to introduce her German culture to her daughter Alinnah who was born in the U.S. Many second-generation immigrants struggle with feeling connected to their foreign culture, and Simone wanted to ensure that this was not the case with Alinnah. Overall, not only did her social network help her to find employment, make friends, and become more accustomed to American culture, but it also allowed her to have a community around her that truly understood what she was going through which helped her to feel heard and at home. This is exactly why social networks are so vital in not only the creation of immigrant communities but also the continuation of thriving immigrant communities.
Simone’s daughter Alinnah (right) with her best friend in the U.S.
As aforementioned, Simone didn’t have trouble finding a job due to some help from some other immigrants, however, she noted the issue was getting a job with higher wages and higher mobility. She said, “… getting a job was always easy, that’s not a problem, just getting into a higher paying job without the American college, it was quite difficult. But I could not see myself getting in debt for $40,000 just to make $12 or 14 bucks an hour, you know?” This education requirement is an unfortunate barrier for many immigrants, as according to the Pew Research Center in 2018, 27% of immigrants have not completed high school, in comparison to the 8% of Americans who haven’t (Budiman, 2020). In general, Simone’s experience of only being able to find low wage jobs with low mobility is not a unique one among immigrants and can be explained using the segmented labor market theory. According to Massey, the labor market consists of the primary sector and the secondary sector. The primary sector is made up of jobs that have high wages, high mobility, high prestige, and are stable. On the other hand, secondary sector jobs have low wages, low mobility, low social status, poor working conditions, and are often seasonal and unstable. Due to the capitalist economy of America, many secondary sector workers are needed, however, most Americans are unwilling to do these jobs due to the aforementioned reasons of low pay, mobility, and prestige. However, due to barriers like education, and legal status, many immigrants fill these positions in the secondary sector, but not without risks. For instance, an immigrant named Maria got her hand smashed by a turkey while working at a poultry farm in the Shenandoah Valley (Knadler, 2016). This eventually led to both of her hands becoming injured from having to work with only her non-smashed hand for roughly eight hours a day (Knadler, 2016). This resulted in the poultry company she had been working at for seven years putting her on unpaid leave for five months (Knadler, 2016). While Simone was able to work in establishments with better working conditions, she was still restricted to the places of employment that she could choose from. She always felt unsettled by these labor divisions and restrictions, and commented that all individuals, regardless of the jobs of their parents and the associated social status, “should have the same shot on a better future.”
While Simone was able to meet friends and find employment, the ability to settle into a new place and feel at home does not only depend on these factors, but also the reactions of those around you may affect your ability to make a comfortable and safe life for yourself. In other words, how an immigrant is received by the people and places of the native country they have migrated to can impact their ability to establish themselves, otherwise known as the contexts of reception. Unfortunately, many immigrants do not receive a warm welcome and face prejudice and discrimination, and, unfortunately, Simone was no exception. While working at the airport, she had to request that a retired Airman’s bag be checked, “because first off, he smelled like alcohol, and second off, he had alcohol in his bag.” This bag check requirement was not welcomed by the airman, and he proceeded to say to Simone, “Well you must feel right at home Nazi bitch, why don’t you go home where you came from?.” This comment not only understandably upset Simone but caused her to ask herself, “maybe this [moving to the U.S.] is not as good of a choice that I made.” Despite these thoughts of regret, as I mentioned earlier, she didn’t have much choice regarding where she lived if she wanted to be with her husband due to her husband’s job.
This xenophobic incident occurred prior to the terrorist attacks of 9/11, however, Simone commented several times that she felt as though “the country definitely shifted after 9/11.” Specifically, in her experience, she believes the country used to be more accepting, and became much more “paranoid.” The Patriot Act, as discussed by Massey and Pren, was enacted by the U.S. government as a response to 9/11. The act established the Homeland Security Department in order to perform the increased surveillance and deportation of immigrants that the act also enforced. This act may have encouraged, justified, and legitimized the newly found fear that some American’s had regarding immigrants. Like I discussed earlier, Simone had an overall positive experience when she received her visa at the U.S. consulate in Frankfurt, Germany. However, her experience going to get her green card renewed in Denver, Colorado after 9/11, was, to say the least, unpleasant. She said that on that day it was at least one-hundred degrees out and that her and roughly one-hundred other immigrants had to wait outside in a line before entering the building. She had her newborn baby Alinnah with her, and she said she felt like she was in a “dictatorship” as the immigration workers took away everyone’s water and, in general, made her feel as though she was not “wanted” in America. Even though Simone found that 9/11 increased the American people’s discriminatory attitudes and actions towards immigrants, even before 9/11 she experienced prejudice for having a foreign accent. When she initially got her green card, she found that the context of reception of language was an issue, as she felt as though her accent, and the fact that she was still learning English, caused the employees to act in a discriminatory way towards her even though she stated that “they also were immigrants and they spoke with an accent. So I was like, why are you so mean?” Not only did her accent act as a sort of barrier, but she also noted that, in general, she had to get used to the different American dialects, such as southern, as well as the American sense of humor, however she noted that learning a new language was an overall enjoyable experience for her.
Despite the negative experiences that Simone had, she also asserted that she met so many wonderful, kind, and welcoming people while she was in the U.S., some of which she is still friends with today, and that she would love to return to the states to visit the places she enjoyed. Simone’s story is a great example of how many immigrants experience the same things when it comes to discrimination and xenophobia, regardless of their race. However, Simone is privileged in the sense that, even though she was only able to find jobs that were low wage, her family was not fully dependent on her low wage income, as her husband was in the military. Additionally, she was able to work in a safe environment, where her physical well being was not at risk. On that same note, due to her ability to gain a visa, and later a green card, I can imagine that she received the same workplace protections that Americans do, and she was also able to live her life in the U.S. without fear of deportation. This is not to say that Simone did not experience struggle, but that while immigrants may experience the same sorts of barriers, there is no universal immigrant experience.
References:
Budiman, A. (2020, September 22). Key findings about U.S. immigrants. Retrieved fromhttps://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/20/key-findings-about-u-s-immigrants/
Cameron, J. D. (n.d.). Stasi. Retrieved from https://www.britannica.com/topic/Stasi
History.com Editors. (2009, December 15). Berlin Wall. Retrieved from
https://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/berlin-wall
Knadler, J. (2016, November 17). Poultry Workers Speak Out on Work Conditions. Retrieved
from https://www.wmra.org/post/poultry-workers-speak-out-work-conditions#stream/0
O’Brien, S. (2020, November 22). “Why don’t you go home where you came from?” [Online interview].
Hi, my name is Grace Lawler and I’m here with Ms. Simone O’Brien, and we’re going to be talking about her story as an immigrant to the U.S. So first we’re gonna talk about, you know, where you were born, you know, in general, like what was your life like before immigrating to the U.S. as far as like friends, family career, all those things?
Simone O’Brien 0:24
Alright, so well, I was born and raised in Germany, Bavaria, in a small village on a farm, which it was very, was, Lord, it was beautiful, actually you know, had a large family, extended family, went to school started an apprenticeship as a beautician, which took three years to finish, as you know, in Germany it takes—it’s more intense of the whole trade schools. And then I’ve been working as a beautician since I was 15, finished trade school with 18 and then worked until, here in Germany, until I was 24. And then I met my boyfriend [John O’Brien], then later husband and immigrated to the States, yes.
Grace Lawler 1:28
So what was the reason for going to the states with your boyfriend?
Simone O’Brien 1:32
Actually, because he was in the military, and we’d been dating for two years, and then we decided to get married. And then we stayed for another year in Germany, and then it was, he got orders, and it was either me staying back [alone], you know, but so we decided I move with him to the U.S.
Grace Lawler 2:00
How did you feel about that?
Simone O’Brien 2:03
It was, it was, I think, the hardest decision I’ve ever had to make, because I love my family, my country, my hometown, everything. I had a great job, I had a great career and had friends who I grew up with, so I had pretty much you know, my life here. But it was like I said it was a tough decision, but it was also heartbreaking for my family too for me to leave. So, but yes, but we did it.
Grace Lawler 2:37
Where did you move to when you moved to the U.S.?
Simone O’Brien 2:40
First, we moved to Texas, Fort Bliss in El Paso, and then—but we didn’t stay long there. Then we moved up to Colorado after I think three or four months.
Grace Lawler 2:55
So what was the process like getting a visa? Did you find it overall easy, hard?
Simone O’Brien 3:01
Um, it was it was actually not that hard. We did it at a consulate in Frankfurt, which I had good experience there, I mean, it was a little weird because it was right after the [Berlin] wall. You know, two years after the East, Eastern Europeans wall fell. And so I get asked question if my family was involved with the Stasi, or how I feel about socialism, like I was just so shocked is like I didn’t—was never in touch or grew up with any of this so. But it was played as if they were all very nice, helpful, so it was no problem.
Grace Lawler 3:43
Okay so, you didn’t feel like necessarily they were like, treating you differently because of this they just wanted to like make sure or did you feel like maybe there was some like weird?
Simone O’Brien 3:52
No, I think they just want to make sure and they didn’t treat me differently here [in Germany] in Frankfurt. Coming to the States, Lord, it was a different it was a very, very different experience. But like I said, it’s it it’s the country, you know, it’s the people so so it’s it’s really, I was just I had really great experience here [in Germany].
Grace Lawler 4:16
Can you speak a little about your experience?
Simone O’Brien 4:18
Yeah, yes, sure, here in Frankfurt, or—Den in Denver? (unintelligible – 04:22) was —
Grace Lawler 4:24
in Denver,
Simone O’Brien 4:25
In Denver, um, I have to say, with the green card, you know, I applied for the visa and then I applied for the green card, and there was no problem because I got it mailed to our house and I could start working after, I would say three months, and there was no problem but I had to re-renew it after a couple years. And let me think Grace, it was after 10 years, yes, that was also no, that was before, after five years, it was before [the terrorists attacks of] 9/11. It was just not very pleasant because it was in Denver, you had to go up to Immigration and just you know, Colorado Springs we traveled for two hours and people were just not as friendly. They were very rude, and my English is not as good but I try to understand, but there was not much help. You know, it’s like, and the funny part is, they [the immigration office workers] also were immigrants and they spoke with an accent. So I was like, why are you so mean? But it was okay, you know, it really got to me when Alinnah [my daughter] was born, and, like I said, five years later, I had to renew my green card and that was no, no fun. They were, they were super strict, which I understand, I get, but it was almost 100 degrees [and] I had a newborn. We were waiting outside with, I would say at least 100 other immigrants and it was hot. They even took our water away because it could be a potential weapon. So I was like, I was felt like in a dictatorship, you know, was not very pleasant. I was literally questioning myself why I’m even still here, where clearly I wasn’t tolerated, wanted or even I was, you know, discriminated against, but again, a different story.
Grace Lawler 6:32
That was after 9/11 you said?
Simone O’Brien 6:34
Yes, yes, there was when people started, I would say really became paranoid. You couldn’t really—it was a shift. You know, fear does that to people, and when you don’t really when you kind of don’t see the enemy, but you always feel threatened then you kind of get thrown into the spoke of other immigrants, but I guess they just you know, there’s a difference between terrorists or immigrants or who just want to make a life or actually want to be there. But I think it’s also the opinion of the individual.
Grace Lawler 7:16
Yeah, do you, do you recall, like a particular negative or positive story where you feel like you were treated differently?
Simone O’Brien 7:28
I mean, they were unfortunately it was when it comes to green card immigration traveling I really didn’t hit any positive stories, it was mostly negative. On top of it, my car got broken in. When I came, when I just received my second green card and got stolen my purse, everything was gone. And after this, the journey just wasn’t easier because now I have stolen green card and I was in every flight I took it doesn’t matter if it’s overseas or in the States I always had it was got a special search even with Alinnah now you know, you have a newborn. You sit you I miss my plane so many times because of that. So yeah, it was never nice. But I also met wonderful people who in other areas of my life [while living in the U.S.], were super helpful when it comes to my job to friends it was, it was good experience too.
Grace Lawler 8:28
So going back to like when you first got to the U.S. had you had you been to the U.S. before? Was it your first time? What was like your general first impression if it was your first time?
Simone O’Brien 8:40
No, I was, I traveled to the U.S. before first time I went to the U.S. was when I was 18 and I travel to Washington State, Oregon and California, the National Parks spent there with a friend of mine rented cars been there eight weeks to travel. The second time was in Hawaii, which was also just vacation leisure time. And then the third time was more to the Middle West, not Colorado but more Arizona, Nevada, the southern part of Arizona. And I—it’s a beautiful country, you have everything in one continent and I experienced so many wonderful people, met great people it was really a pleasant experience.
Grace Lawler 9:38
So when you when you came back then after you had been the first time for kind of like vacation—
Simone O’Brien 9:44
Yeah
Grace Lawler 9:44
Like there was like a difference in like experience of like you know, being there to live as opposed to like being there just like to visit?
Simone O’Brien 9:52
Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think living there it is different, but it’s also because I grew up so differently. I’m sure if I immigrated there in the 70s, our values would match up more. I don’t know if it makes sense, you know, family values more traditional. But vacationing, you know, no matter where you go, if it’s Thailand or Australia, it’s always it’s your time you can do as you please. But I have to say people are extremely helpful, you know, super friendly [in the U.S.], that was definitely a plus.
Grace Lawler 10:33
But you do feel like there are some, like, differences when you when you would think about, you know, back home in Germany versus like, now in the U.S., like, if you’re like, there are some, like—
Simone O’brien 10:43
Do you mean, socially, economically?
Grace Lawler 10:47
Yeah socially, culturally, like was it hard to, like, adjust and get used to that?
Simone O’Brien 10:52
Yes, it was, um, for me, it was always (unintelligible – 10:57), especially, you know, I was very spoiled, I grew up in Bavaria. So for me, health care, education, that is, for us like should be right to everyone, you know, should be basic human right to, especially when you come from a rich country, industrial, you know, and I just didn’t quite understand why it’s not like this in the States. Why it is such a struggle, and people have to work no matter where you go, there is no handouts, there’s no freebies, I in Germany, if I wouldn’t work, I wouldn’t have access to the free education or health care. But I figure if you put your hours of labor in, no matter which job you had, if you’re (unintelligible – 11:41) a janitor or a CEO, your kid should have the same shot on a better future, then, you know, everybody else especially when like I said the country’s wealthy.
Grace Lawler 11:55
Yeah, and I know you mentioned that you had an accent. So did you speak English when you got to the U.S.? Or were you in the process of learning? Or (unintelligible – 12:06)?
Simone O’Brien 12:07
I think it was more in the process of learning, and I did not realize the many dialect there is just like it is in Germany. And it—it’s quite funny, because I think anything south of Oklahoma, Colorado, it’s like, I did not understand anymore North East the same. I’m like, what are they talking about? But it was it was interesting, you know, it’s kind of, but it was the same for me. I even now when I speak English, you can hear that I’m from Bavaria, versus from north of Germany, you kind of carry it’s the same thing, you know, kind of carry it with you. Yeah, but there was there was actually a great experience, you know, learning another language and also, knowing there is so many undertones to it, in a matter of being sarcastic or jokes. It-that’s quite a, I would say a roller coaster or no another [metaphor]—it’s quite a slippery slope to walk to figure it out. You know, for me, when when I go shopping, and 18 year old old calls me honey, I get like, almost insulted, why? But (unintelligible – 13:19) she didn’t mean bad ,it’s just I, I didn’t get it.
Grace Lawler 13:25
(unintelligible – 13:25) Yeah, I know, you hinted at this maybe a little bit before but did you feel like you ever may be treated differently? Because it was obvious to others when you’re speaking to them that you’re from a different country?
Simone O’Brien 13:39
Oh, yeah you know, absolutely. There’s people who were like super interested, hey, where you’re come from, and there’s people as like, especially when you kind of don’t think the way they want you to think or, you know, when you have a difference of opinions like, well, why don’t you go you know, I. I’ve been called many names I didn’t know they existed, so it was it was quite interesting how on one part, people can be super friendly and helpful, and others are very disgusting and very mean. So I had this one incident I worked right after I got there after I get my green card I worked as a security guard on in the airport before 9/11. And it was it, was a really cool job, you know you had to check people’s bag and, and my supervisor, he was this retired Air Force, I don’t even know what rank you know me, I don’t have no clue of that [military ranks]. But [his name was] Reggie, and he’s so funny, he is this tall, skinny black guy, right, and he walked like the pink pan-, you know them The Pink Panther. Like Reggie, you remind me of somebody, well anyhow, so we got a really good connection because he was stationed in Germany, also back in the 70s (unintelligible – 14:57). And I had to pat down, not, [correction] search a pilot, because first off, he smelled like alcohol, and second off, he had alcohol in his bag. So I called him [Reggie] over and said, Reggie, we need to search him the police was there. So anyhow, I call the bag check on this guy, and he called me, he told me he cussed me out, and he said, something like, why don’t you go or go, he said, hold on, “Well you must feel right at home Nazi bitch, why don’t you go home where you came from?” That was like, Grace I was, so you know, my, like I said, my English was a little raggedy, and maybe I didn’t understand (unintelligible – 15:40). But then, no, I understood, right I was so shocked, and when I’m mad I tear up, you know, so I was so in shock, and of course, the police was right there, they they came to help me, and I was crying. No, keep in mind, it was my first time [being insulted based on my nationality] so I was like uh why. So anyhow, and that really struck me when Reggie told me, “Oh, girl, don’t be upset I’ve been called worse, and you get used to it.” I’m like, Reggie, I do not want to get used to this. And you know, this is this 70 year old guy who tells me, you get used to this abuse I’m like, oh, my God. So there was still cheer up in this because he [Reggie], he was such a good guy, you know, so I had to hug him, and he sent me home, because I couldn’t work anymore. So anyhow, that was my first introduction to [discrimination in the U.S.] is like, hmm, maybe this [immigrating to the U.S.] is not as good of a choice that I made but it’s okay.
Grace Lawler 16:37
Right, yeah, goodness, I can’t even imagine [going through that].
Simone O’Brien 16:39
It was just shock when you come from such a protected, you know, safe home.
Grace Lawler 16:46
Definitely, so I know you said you were able to get a green card, you just mentioned that you were working as a security guard. So how was that experience of like getting a job? And I’m assuming you worked like multiple jobs from what you’ve said, while you were in the U.S.? Can you talk a little bit about that?
Simone O’Brien 17:03
Yes, no, it was, um, it wasn’t that hard [to get a job]. I mean, keep in mind, those are low end, paying jobs. You know, getting a job was always easy, that’s not a problem, just getting into a higher paying job without the American college, it was quite difficult. But I could not see myself getting in debt for $40,000 just to make $12 or 14 bucks an hour, you know? No. So I got my paperwork translated, my trade [beautician] school [paperwork], so it got credited in Colorado, and I work for a German lady who had a shop and so that worked out good for me, and I made good money. So yes, but for me to realize how hard it is to get ahead without a decent education [in America], which you have to get over your head in debt for was quite [hard]. Yes, it’s another thing I don’t understand but yes is he living it? Is he living it?
Grace Lawler 18:16
So you said that you you made the job connection by meeting a German woman?
Simone O’Brien 18:22
Yes.
Grace Lawler 18:22
Or it ended up being a German woman? How did that work?
Simone O’Brien 18:25
Yes, it is quite interesting because when you’re, you know, you kind of get connected to you know, since I’m from Germany, Austrian and German [people]. So who [Austrian and German people] worked at the airport, also, I got the job at the airport through a coworker of my husband who worked there, I think, part time on the weekend, so [and they] said, “Oh we are always hiring” so I got this. Turns out, there’s three German ladies working there, which I’m still friends with today, which is wonderful. And (unintelligible – 18:57) kind of connected here, and then I did also waitressing in the steakhouse, which I got also connected to another friend of the lady I work for. So it is that networking inside of the German community, so that is very, was helped me a lot. I think that kind of [community] made it also a little bit easier for me to absolutely establish anything there.
Grace Lawler 19:19
So is that how you made most of your friends through connections with other immigrants?
Simone O’Brien 19:24
Uhm, yes, absolutely.
Grace Lawler 19:26
And was the like, overall experience then of like, being able to like meet and make friends like okay? (unintelligible -19:32) Was there any like difficulties at first, or how was it like meeting other people?
Simone O’Brien 19:37
I think it was difficult at first, before I got the job [at the airport], of course, because you have no, there was no social media back then. So, but it was definitely a connection with my coworkers. and that no, it was it was easy, but I also you know, I like to go out and talk to people so that’s not the hard part.
Grace Lawler 20:02
So how long did you live in the U.S. in total? How many years?
Simone O’Brien 20:09
Alright, um, well it was from 93-94 till 2010, so fourteen [years]? Do the math Grace (unintelligible laughter – 20:20).
Grace Lawler 20:25
And how did you feel when you found out you’re going to move back to Germany?
Simone O’Brien 20:30
I was, it was actually more of, yes, I was (unintelligible – 20:35) Alinnah [my daughter] now, you know, the school system and everything, and I got to thinking like, I do not—I wanted my child closer to family. We had great friends, but I missed my family, and I wanted Alinnah to grew up in – I wouldn’t, it’s not safer here [in Germany], but more of connections in family and my parents, you know, just I wasn’t not excited about another holiday alone. Or as you know, my husband worked as a police officer, which was not an easy job. So I, you know, it was time for a change. (unintelligible – 21:12) [Like I] Said, I was excited, yes, to see my family and there was so many years missing, but we also made sure that I flew back home almost every year, which is I’m very thankful for to keep that connection with my family and with my town and friends.
Grace Lawler 21:31
So is your family you think the main thing that you missed about Germany while you were in the U.S.? Or is there anything else?
Simone O’Brien 21:37
I would say, my family, including my extended family, and the helpfulness, and I guess, to be who you are to be connected more to who you are, and also freely speak it, I missed that the most. And I always felt like I couldn’t, I couldn’t done it or do it in the States, because I felt like people are getting easy, very easily offended. Did when it takes—here [ in Germany], people don’t take it so personal you know, it’s more of a they know you for so long and then they [other Germans] don’t think that you mean ill by anything you say. And I had the experience in the states that it was always a very fine line to offend somebody, even when you make a joke or, that I’m not good in political correctness Grace, I’m not very good at that.
Grace Lawlr 22:38
Right, right, and so you went back—so you would visit you said almost every year pretty much right?
Simone O’Brien 22:45
Yes, yes.
Grace Lawler 22:46
And then so is that what really helped to keep you connected to your family and your culture and maybe not feel so like alone?
Simone O’Brien 22:54
Absolutely, Absolutely. I had a great circle of friends and family, I flew home once a year or my family, my sisters and friends came visit. And it was also very helpful for Alinnah to see both cultures growing up, you know, so it was not just from storybooks or from mom. [Simone] telling, telling her she also could experience it with people who are surrounded with us, so that was good.
Grace Lawler 23:20
Yeah. How did you like keep you know, (unintelligible – 23:24) Obviously she [Alinnah] like she was born in the U.S., right?
Simone O’Brien 23:27
Yes, yes.
Grace Lawler 23:28
And I’m sure you wanted to keep her [Alinnah] connected to like your German culture but how did you do that?
Simone O’Brien 23:35
It was, um, like I said, your—I did had quite a bit of German friends [while living in the U.S.]. So we did a traditional [German] Santa Claus on the sixth of December and the Christkindl, as you know, in Bavaria, on the 24th [of December] in the evening, the Easter holidays, we didn’t do very traditional and always gathered with, you know, Germans who thought and felt the way we did, and so that was, it was always nice, that was great.
Grace Lawler 24:06
Is there anything just I guess, like, in general, that you feel like was significant or like a memorable aspect of like your move to the U.S. like anything that really like sticks out at you. Or maybe if you were to you know, to give advice to someone else who was going to be an immigrant to the U.S. things that you would tell them or just things that were memorable for you?
Simone O’Brien 24:28
I think, like I said, there was so many wonderful people who were super helpful just I guess, don’t be afraid to reach out you always find I mean, in any culture, you find narrow minded idiots and you found find wonderful people and I really loved America, for its, I guess, pioneer spirit, which the older generation can, not-no offense to the younger ones, it’s just it was so much more [of a] yeah, can do attitude, you know, it’s not like that [now], [and it used to be like] yes you can accomplish so much. But there’s yes, it is [the United States of America] really a great country and it’s great nature wise there’s so many richness to it. It’s just like with the whole world, it’s kind of more difficult as it goes, but whoever is immigrating to any kind of other region, it’s always good to have an open mind, and like I said, you’re not, you always find good people to help you and to just reach out. And kinda, yeah, find your own kind so you don’t feel so disconnected [to your culture]. Because I think when you feel so disconnected, it makes it difficult to reach out because there’s nothing to reach out to so you need a couple friends to help you.
Grace Lawler 25:54
Were there any, like German stores? Or like German restaurants that you were able to go to? or what were you able to, like, find some of your like, favorite things [from Germany]? Or?
Simone O’Brien 26:04
Yes, I was very lucky, I worked on the weekends in a German deli, in a bakery, who, you know, imported German goods, from music to lunch meat to anything, and there is a huge German population in the States. And that was always nice, because Saturdays, it was always my German day, you know, I worked there, you talk to other Germans you kinda realize—and it’s also quite interesting, because you get to hear everybody’s stories, and also the American side of the story, the German side which it really helped me broaden my understanding of other cultures, and that, yes, you are a product of your environment. And it was it was, it was really a great time to, to, you know, for understanding and for just to seeing how different, how the same, but also how different we all are. So, it was I wouldn’t want to miss it [being at the German store] that’s for sure.
Grace Lawler 27:09
Right and I know you said, like you said, you made friends with other Germans, but were you able to interact with like other immigrants? And like, were you able to like relate to them as well?
Simone O’Brien 27:18
Absolutely, two of my closest friends were Korean ladies, and they, they struggled with the same issues [of being an immigrant] as we all did, and yeah, and I’m still good friends with them. And it was it was interesting to do, like I said, you dive into different cultures, or also the Hispanic cultures, you know, you kind of connect with the different ethics, ethics, ethnic groups, and it’s because in the end, it’s same story behind it, you know, some come to the states to make a better life, others do it, because they fell in love, or they just wanted to experience something different job wise. So everybody had a different story to it and it was quite interesting.
Grace Lawler 28:03
Do you have any examples of like a shared experience or like, like some something that you guys would often talk about that was like, Oh, this [something that happens to a lot of immigrants] happened again, or like something that like, because you said, you know, you had a lot of like, shared experiences, do you have any like examples of those things?
Simone O’Brien 28:19
I think the biggest thing is really them understanding language wise, cultural wise, you always felt misunderstood, because they couldn’t understand you because of your accent. That happened to my Korean friend, cuz she couldn’t pronounce, like I said, we all learning and we working at the airport. Her—she was Korean, and there was a soldier coming through the security, and he asked for the USO [United Services Organizations], you know, the welcome center for military. And the way, the way she said it in that sing-sang, she asked our supervisor where the asshole was because she couldn’t say the USO, so we all laughed and she tried to, to pronounce it clear, but it was she was just louder calling you know, saying ass. So it was just it was so much, so so many funny incidents that it was not met. Yeah, it was just cool.
Grace Lawler 29:32
Do you feel like it would have been a lot harder than without that like community of people that you could like, relate to and talk to?
Simone O’Brien 29:39
Absolutely. Absolutely. Cuz I always told my husband without them I would feel like a fish out of water. Literally, you couldn’t breathe because you’re like, no American would understand and I would even go, not that I want to play the race card in this, but I think no white American would understand, because I experienced so many, you know, Hispanics and also in the black community [and] in the end, they [minority groups in general] struggle with the same issue as the other immigrants. They are not part of that, and so it was, it felt like you, you do belong to something, because when you talk to somebody who never they [don’t understand] because you can’t imagine that people would do this [be discriminatory] and it was quite interesting, but it was without them it wouldn’t be, it wouldn’t be so much fun, that’s for sure.
Grace Lawler 30:35
And I know you’re obviously living in Germany now. But have you ever, like thought about moving back to the U.S. or like living anywhere else? Is there like anything about living in the U.S. that you like miss?
Simone O’Brien 30:48
Yes, I’m actually thought about going back but not to live there but for longer, not longer maybe six months or so, just to do a huge road trip. And also visit places with Alinnah to, you know, kind of where she [Alinnah] grew up what we you know, Colorado or Washington State. I love this place Washington State Seattle, just to see, you know how it’s right now. But I also want to, if I can manage it somehow with once corona [COVID-19] is over or manageable, I would love to go to either New Zealand or Spain and work and travel there for half a year. I kind of get bored here too, you know, it’s like weird when you move around [to stay in the same place for long]. So it’s like, I do need to see something different.
Grace Lawler 31:40
So even though you know, you may have had like, some like negative experiences or like felt like you weren’t, like always received the best you like, still feel like comfortable, and you had like a good enough experience to like, feel comfortable going to like another country and like putting yourself out there. And now—
Simone O’Brien 31:59
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I traveled so much before I even moved to the States. You know, I went to Tanzania to Kenya, I love to visit other countries to see different cultures. And yes, like it, like we said before, there’s always idiots out there, you know, you just have to overlook that and see the good in it. The struggle is just different when you have to raise a child in this country to make sure she sees the good side of it too. And, you know, and in the end, we don’t have to earn money or have to depend on some government installation because of your (unintelligible – 32:38). So that’s the only problem other than that it was okay.
Grace Lawler 32:44
Right, yeah is there just anything else that you feel like it’s important to add? If not, that’s okay but it’s it’s just has anything like came to my mind about the questions I asked earlier or just anything?
Simone O’Brien 32:59
No, I think, I think like I said, I really enjoyed my time there. It was, it was a learning experience, but the country definitely shifted after 9/11. I think the whole world it [the presence of immigrants] was just more noticeable after that, and that is, unfortunately, because it was, you know, it is a great country, and it was a great country before, but it was so much more tolerant and acceptance and just kind of not so edgy [on edge]. I don’t like edgy I just, you know, we all have to tolerate and live with each other. And it was definitely much much easier before that [9/11]. But yeah, so I had a couple years before then and after this [9/11], so I’m like, what happened?
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