Interview with Kasia Nowacki
“No Regrets”
Kasia’s story
Within a week, Kasia thought about leaving the only place she had ever called home, decided she wanted to leave, and left. She made the difficult, risky decision to come to the United States in search of better opportunities for her and her son. Without telling anyone other than her immediate family, without quitting her job, and without second guessing her decision, she left her home country, Poland, illegally and all alone with her son.
Kasia was born in Poland in April of 1961 and left Poland when she was twenty five years old. She could only think of one push factor that heavily influenced her decision to leave Poland. Push factors are aspects in immigrants lives that motivate them to leave their home countries. Her push factor was political. She left Poland because it was still a communist country. Martial Law had also just ended a few years prior, so there were lots of hardships in Poland at the time and she knew she could not continue to live like that. Her family stayed because it was illegal to leave a communist country back then.
Her departure from Poland was not due to social reasons as Kasia stated that she has “nothing but good memories” from her time in Poland. Other than the Communist Party, she loved living there and loved being close to her family. It was not due to economical reasons, either, because in Poland, she had graduated college and was working her dream job of being a teacher. She was at a good economical place because her parents owned a house, and she was happy living there with her siblings and friends. She never became a teacher again, which is sad for her to think about.
Her process of immigrating, relating to the actual movement from Poland to the United States, went smoothly. She remembered her heart racing every time she crossed a border because she thought she would be sent back to Poland. She had to apply for a passport, and bribe someone into granting her one, right before leaving since people there were not supposed to own passports with Communism. She first took a train to West Germany, which was a transitional place for her. From there, she had to apply for immigration to either Australia or the United States because they were the only countries granting political asylum at that time. Australia did not grant her a visa, so she stayed in West Germany for two years until the American government granted her one. With Australia rejecting her application, her choice to come to the United States was not really a choice as it was her only option. There were not many “pull factors,” or things drawing her to the United States because it was so far from home and she did not know the language. She did, though, have confidence that she would be able to find a job in the United States. She was aware of a concept mentioned in Michael Piore’s essay titled The Jobs, in which he discusses the constant demand for migrants in the United states.
Kasia noted that she did not know what to expect coming to the United States. The German government paid for her plane ticket, and she flew here. She was interviewed upon arrival to make sure she was entering for the right reason, which was political for her.
Kasia said her arrival was “a really nice experience”. The immigration and naturalization service people, along with her sponsor, greeted her and checked her papers. Her sponsor was Polish, which she said helped immensely as Kasia did not speak any English at that point. Overall, she felt as though her arrival was “nice and smooth.”
Natalia Deeb-Sossa wrote an article titled “‘Why do your people do things that just aren’t right’? Latinas/os and race relations at a community clinic in el Nuevo south” and talks about the importance of immigrants “contexts of reception.” One’s context of reception can result in an immigrant’s incorporation or exclusion in host societies. I believe Kasia’s reception in the United States was one that led to her incorporation in society.
Her transition into American life was greatly and positively influenced by the social network she found here. Social networks involve the social interactions and personal relationships in one’s life. Kasia’s neighbors greeted her immediately after she moved into Narberth, which is in Pennsylvania. She noted how friendly and helpful everyone was when she first got there. Kasia stated, “we were like celebrities” when they had arrived because not many immigrants had moved there before. She acknowledged that her social network here is not huge as she has not met many people but that the people she does know are great friends; she values those people and considers them family.
She said she was able to adapt much easier due to their help. This relates to the topic of assimilation, which is when an individual becomes less different and more similar to the norm. In this case, it is when immigrants have a decline in ethnic distinction and become more like Americans. Kasia still tries to keep some Polish traditions alive, and still cooks Polish food often, but has come to enjoy American holidays such as Thanksgiving. She learned English, and assimilated to American language, entirely on her own. When she got to the US, she said, “I could only say I love you and count to ten.” She read books on how to teach yourself English and studied every time her son took a nap. She always kept the TV on and running in English to get accustomed to the language, as well. An older woman in her neighborhood was a teacher and offered to help her learn English. Whenever she came over, Kasia was three lessons ahead because she was so eager to learn and be able to communicate with people. They communicated with hands and drawings until Kasia was able to hold conversations in English. Kasia highlighted a memory from when she arrived in the US and went to a food store. She wanted to make cheesecake and did not know what to buy because she could not read anything. So, with the very limited English she had, she asked someone for help and ended up leaving the store with only sour cream.
Kasia also assimilated to the American way of life. She feels as though everything in the US is easy compared to Poland; She said if you ever need anything here, “you just get in a car and run to CVS or one of the 5 million other stores” to get it. She vividly remembers running out of eggs during her first month in the US and going to ask her neighbors to borrow one in order to bake a cake. This is what they did in Poland, rather than constantly running to the store, but her American neighbor looked at her like she was crazy. Now that she has become accustomed to the way of life here, she understands why her neighbor gave her that crazy look, and she now goes to the store instead of asking anyone to borrow anything small.
There are also many instances in which Kasia demonstrated staying true to her ethic self. She noticed that the United States is extremely fast paced compared to Poland. The American way of life is to always be doing something, whereas in Poland they make time to sit, drink tea, etc. She does not like “just running, running, running,” as she phrased it, so she has continued to find time to just sit. She also found that people are friendlier in the US; in Poland, no one smiles or says hi in passing. With that, though, she’s noticed how empty American greetings are. Everyone asks how you are, but no one actually wants to hear how you are. In Poland, if and when someone asks that, they mean it and are there to listen. She has partly adapted to this as she wants to be friendly and now smiles as she passes people, but she still does not ask how someone is unless she has time to truly listen to their answer. She feels similarly about the phrase “I love you.” People in the US, from what she has seen, say it so often and say it so easily. People in Poland rarely use the word love, but again, when they do, they mean it. She still places so much value on the word love that she will never say it often.
Kasia also does not like how much value is placed on money in the US. Material items have never been and will never be a priority in her life. In addition, she gets uncomfortable when people ask her what her profession is as they meet her. This would be considered extremely rude in Poland, she said. She still considers this a rude question, and at times when she tells people she is an office manager for a dental office, which she has loved doing for 24 years now, people give her looks as though that is not good enough in the social status here. Despite the looks she receives, she is proud of what she does and how far she has come.
In an article titled “Assessing Immigrant Assimilation: New Empirical and Theoretical Challenges,” Mary Waters and Thomas Jiménez write that “Research supports the notion that immigrants are being successfully incorporated into American society,” and “The United States continues to show remarkable progress in absorbing new immigrants.” Kasia experienced this first hand as she has successfully learned the language and became accustomed to American life.
With assimilation and all of the other changes immigrants go through in a new country, many immigrants face identity struggles. Kasia talked about how when she visited Poland, it did not look anything like how she remembered it as it is now similar to any other western country. Even though she grew up there, she does not feel connected to Poland since she has lived in the United States longer than she lived in Poland and because of how much Poland has changed since she left. However, she does not feel at home in the United States, either, because of her accent and since she was not born here. This is “a weird feeling” for her. This demonstrates the tension immigrants face between finding a sense of belonging in their original countries and in the country they end up residing in. Kasia does not feel a sense of belonging in either place.
With this, she has visited her family in Poland many times but goes less now because her father passed away and her mother lives with her brother, so she is taken care of. When she visits, she said, “it is emotional; everyone is happy when I get there and crying when I leave.” Kasia expressed how difficult it is for her to not be able to travel right now with the Coronavirus. She told me that she misses seeing her mom, who is now ill, and that COVID makes it “too complicated” for her to visit; she can no longer just drop everything and go back to Poland to see her mom. So, missing her family is a big factor in Kasia’s life. She said, “I have missed so many Christmases.” When she hears her friends say, for example, that their sisters are coming over for Sunday dinner, Kasia said, “my heart bleeds because I would love my sister to come and have dinner together with me.” That’s always extremely hard for her.
In all, Kasia said she has “no regrets” about leaving Poland. The older she gets, though, the more she misses her family. With this, she is sad that her kids didn’t grow up around their aunts, uncles, and cousins. Her kids do speak Polish, but she is aware it is not the same as them living in Poland. Her children do not have close connections to her family in Poland. So, she has learned the importance of having family around but has found friends that have become family in the United States.
In conclusion:
By doing this interview, I learned a lot about Kasia and a lot more about the possible daily thoughts, feelings, and emotions of an immigrant. There are an endless amount of factors in American life that I have never even thought of, such as the language, accents, and the fast pace in which Americans move at, that affect immigrants on a day to day basis. I am also aware that although Kasia has had mostly positive interactions and experiences in the United States, not all immigrants are as lucky. Kasia is white, or in the majority race here, and is female. Both of those factors may have played a part in her not facing as much discrimination as many other immigrants do. I am relieved to have heard such a happy and peaceful story and to know that immigrants are, in general, more accepted nowadays than they were previously in American history. I was also able to connect almost every story from the interview to a concept we had gone over in class, such as the context reception, social networks, assimilation, and push or pull factors.
Methods
The interview was held virtually over zoom. I knew of Kasia because she is friends with my roommates parents. My roommate refers to Kasia as her aunt; they are like family. I had only met Kasia once before this, but I do not know many other immigrants and she seemed so willing and interested to help with this project. The technology aspect of the interview went extremely well. It was also so interesting and eye opening to me to hear Kasia’s story. At times, though, I had trouble understanding what she was saying due to her accent. She still has a strong Polish accent, so as I wrote the transcript, I had to listen to a few parts of the interview multiple times in order to understand what she had said. With that, I was able to understand what she meant throughout the entire interview after playing the audio back a few times. I loved being a part of this interview and this project and did not mind the altercations that were involved due to COVID-19.
References
(2020, December 02). Retrieved 2020, from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Poland
Narberth, PA [Photograph found in Maps of Narberth, PA, Narberth]. (n.d.). Retrieved 2020, from https://www.bestplaces.net/city/pennsylvania/narberth
Map of Divided Germany/Berlin. (n.d.). Retrieved 2020, from https://www.pinterest.com/pin/361062095100124654/
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Phoenix Spencer 0:01
Okay, so I just began recording.
Kasia Nowacki 0:04
Okay.
Phoenix Spencer 0:05
This is a digitally recorded interview; my name is Phoenix Spencer and I’m interviewing Kasia Nowacki on November 27 2020, at 1pm. So to start, what is your full name?
Kasia Nowacki 0:19
Kasia Nowacki.
Phoenix Spencer 0:21
What country were you born in?
Kasia Nowacki 0:24
I was born in Poland in April of 1961.
Phoenix Spencer 0:31
Okay, what was your experience like there? You can talk about how much family you had there, what the discussion about leaving was like for you, including who was a part of it and when it began, your education, likes and dislikes, or anything regarding those topics.
Kasia Nowacki 0:48
Oh, so I left Poland when I was 25. I graduated college when I was 24. I worked as a teacher in an elementary school for a year only, and decided to leave because Poland was still a communist communist country at that time. Martial Law just ended a couple years before; we really went through lots of hardships. I was young and just thought that it would be maybe a better opportunity for me and eventually with, for my children if I were to stay in a western country. So I left in September of 1985. No one really knew that I was leaving because it was very illegal to leave a country, Poland, a communist country at that time. I really didn’t even have a- well I had to buy my passport. Because we couldn’t just keep passports at our homes during communism. We had to apply for them and give good reasons why we needed a passport. So, after I bribed someone, basically, to get my passport- only my closest family knew, my brother, my sister, my mom, and my father, no one knew. I didn’t even really tell the principal of the school I was teaching because I was just afraid that he would go straight to the authorities and tell the authorities about my plans. So I was very- I remember I took a train to Western Germany where I had a German friend. And I remember every time we crossed the border with Poland, East Germany, West Germany, my heart was just pounding because I thought I would be sent back to Poland, but nothing like that happened. And I ended up in Darmstadt, which is a small city near Frankfurt, in what was then Western Germany.
Phoenix Spencer 3:37
Okay.
Kasia Nowacki 3:38
But in general, I had really, really good experience in Poland. Since you know, my family was there and, other than the Communist Party, it was a nice country to live in. Yeah, times were hard, but, you know, we got used to it, I guess long lines. And the stores at the time I was leaving, I left Poland, it was really no jobs- the stores were pretty much empty, so, but you know, you always have a good time when you are close to your family. So, I had nothing but good memory in my personal life in Poland.
Phoenix Spencer 4:28
Okay. So was that kind of a quick decision to leave once you decided you wanted to?
Kasia Nowacki 4:34
Yes, it was very quick. I was, it was really- it was a decision probably didn’t take me more than a week to decide that yes, I will leave and either stay in Western Germany or try to immigrate to a different country. Actually being in Western Germany- I couldn’t really live in Western Germany because this was just a transitional place for me, and I had to apply for immigration to either Australia or the US. Australia didn’t grant me or my husband, then my boyfriend, visa, so we ended up staying in West Germany for two years and waiting for the American government to grant us visa.
Phoenix Spencer 5:41
So did you move with all of them? Or were you by yourself?
Kasia Nowacki 5:45
I left by myself. You mean my family?
Phoenix Spencer 5:49
Yes.
Kasia Nowacki 5:50
No, I’m the only one who left Poland, my sister and my brother and my parents, everyone else still lives in Poland.
Phoenix Spencer 6:01
Okay. Have you seen them since? Have you gone back at all?
Kasia Nowacki 6:04
Yes, of course, I visited them many times, especially when the kids were smaller. We used to go and spend vacation there a couple, not a couple, probably more for six weeks when the kids were small. Now I don’t go that often. My father passed away. My mom is living with my brother and has good care. I was there last time three years ago.
Phoenix Spencer 6:39
Okay. What’s it like going back?
Kasia Nowacki 6:42
Oh, it’s very emotional, always. It’s great to see my family and see the changes. Poland is now very much like any other western country. It doesn’t look like nothing of what I remember from my experiences from, what, 30 plus years ago. It’s always very emotional to see them. It’s happy when I get there. And then everyone is crying when I’m leaving. And my mom always says, oh, this is the last time we see each other. But it’s also, I guess, it’s kind of weird. Because even though I grew up there, I don’t feel connected to it that much. Since I left, I lived in the US longer than I lived in the Poland. So you know, this is kind of my home, but not really because I still have the accent and everything is different than I’m accustomed to from Poland. But then when I go to Poland, then things are different. So I don’t feel really like at home, neither in Poland or in the US. It’s really weird. Obviously, this is my home. But you know, I’m still sometimes surprised by some things that I experience in the US.
Phoenix Spencer 8:19
Yeah. Could you share a little bit about your experience relating to the actual movement coming into the US, so what coming into the US was like, your arrival, what customs was like, what you were thinking, feeling, anything of that sort?
Kasia Nowacki 8:34
Well, so I came in September of 1987, and then with my son who was then 11 months old. My husband was already here for six months in the in Philadelphia area. We decided that and actually, in perspective, it was a good decision that we didn’t want to come with the baby, since we really didn’t know the language at all- English language. We didn’t know what we were to expect, how we will be greeted, what conditions we will be living in. So my husband came first, and he was lucky that he found a job with an apartment taking care of an older gentleman. And six months later, in September, my son and I joined him and lived in that small apartment in Narberth. The coming, we flew from come kalon in Germany, the German government paid for our tickets. There was no responsibility, whatsoever. I had to go to, and I was interviewed at, the US consulate in, I believe, I don’t know what the consulate was, but they interview you, made sure that I am entering us for the right reason, which at that point was political since Poland was still communist. And other than that was fairly nice and smooth. The immigration and naturalization services people greeted us, check all the papers. And I only had a sponsor, the sponsor was Catholic social services and the representative for that organization also greeted us at the airport, which happened to be a Polish lady. And that made it much easier since I didn’t speak any English at that point. But, it was a really nice experience. I didn’t have any harsh questioning or experiences at that time.
Phoenix Spencer 11:21
Okay. When did you learn most of your English?
Kasia Nowacki 11:26
Oh, I learned it all by myself really.
Phoenix Spencer 11:31
Oh, wow.
Kasia Nowacki 11:32
Yes. I took German in, in high school and in college, so and then I left with some, so when I came, my German was just excellent. But my English was very limited, I really could only say I love you and count to 10. So, that wasn’t very helpful. But I brought a book from, from Poland, how to teach yourself English. So whenever my son went for a nap, I would sit and study. I also tried to watch TV or always have TV in the background, just to get accustomed to the language. And I was really, really lucky that I, or we, ended up in Narberth, which is, at that point was, small town with the most wonderful, friendly people and everyone was approaching me and tried to help me. There was an older woman who was a teacher that at that time, she offered to meet with me and help me with, with learning the English, but of course it was very helpful, but I remembered when, whenever she came, I was always like three lessons ahead, because I was so eager to learn, to learn the language because it was really difficult to- I couldn’t communicate with anyone. We, we somehow communicated with hands and drawings. But also it was hard to even food shop. I remember when I, I wanted to make a cheesecake, and I went to the supermarket. And of course I didn’t know what to buy, everything was different than in Poland. And I asked someone in my very limited, couple of words of, English what to buy and I ended up buying sour cream. Made the cheesecake with sour cream, that was my first cake. Actually, actually came out pretty good it was very flat and thin, but it wasn’t bad. So, either my English was really, really bad or the person I asked didn’t have any idea how to make a cheesecake. But mostly, really, I learned by myself and when, remember we didn’t have a car, so I couldn’t just get in a car and go to night school. At one point I ended up taking English for foreigners at a night school in Lower Merion High School and another polish, my friend, my polish friend who came and also was trying to learn English. She had the car so we drove together, she would pick me up and then we would go to the class together.
Phoenix Spencer 14:56
Okay. I know you mentioned a political factor, but were there any other push factors in Poland that caused you to leave?
Kasia Nowacki 15:05
No, it was really political. I mean, I had the job and it was a good job. You know, I was a teacher and I really loved it.
Phoenix Spencer 15:13
Yeah.
Kasia Nowacki 15:14
So that that was really sad, too, that I had to leave my profession. I always wanted to be a teacher, since I was a little girl. And at that time, I didn’t know if I would be able to ever become a teacher in a foreign country, you know, no language. And well, I never was a teacher. But you know, that, that’s how life goes sometimes. But no, other than that it was really political. It wasn’t that much economical. Since my parents, I lived with my parents at that time, and they owned a house, which was, you know, pretty, pretty rare in, in Poland to own a house. They were both accountants, so we were well off. So, it wasn’t an economical factor, it was mostly political. I was also 24. Just, I was thinking, oh, my gosh, I can’t live like this. Another, in another, you know, wake up in 20 years, and I’m still here, and have to ask permission to travel and etcetera, etcetera of course, Poland, then the communists went away, and, I’m sorry?
Phoenix Spencer 16:33
No, I was just listening.
Kasia Nowacki 16:35
Oh so, other than political factor, no, nothing, nothing really else was pushing me away.
Phoenix Spencer 16:42
Okay. What were some of the pull factors in the US that led you to come here?
Kasia Nowacki 16:48
Well, as I said, there are only two countries that you can immigrate to.
Phoenix Spencer 16:56
Okay.
Kasia Nowacki 16:59
Germany, you would, I couldn’t, you know, probably we would have loved to stay in Germany, because it was so close to Poland. So, we thought we could visit our families maybe much easier. However, only United States and Australia grants, political asylum. At least that was then. We did apply to Australia and the US. Australia rejected our application. And then US, thank goodness, granted us the political asylum. So we didn’t have, you know, it was like, we couldn’t just say, oh, maybe we move to Bermuda or maybe Iceland. No, there were only two options, either Australia or US.
Phoenix Spencer 17:58
Okay.What was your experience like in the US when you first got here?
Kasia Nowacki 18:05
It was great, really, it was great. I was really lucky, that we, we ended up in Narberth. Because it’s such a wonderful, it still is a very nice, family oriented community. They obviously didn’t have too many immigrants coming there., so we were like celebrities. Everyone knew about us, people from St. Margaret’s church. I remember for Christmas, they brought us beautiful, like, basket, package, I guess with all christmas food, ham and vegetables and stuff, which it was really so nice. Someone invited us for Thanksgiving, and I actually still see the lady who invited us for, for Thanksgiving, the first Thanksgiving in the US. It was great. It was really wonderful. People were so warm and helpful and giving clothing for my son and for me and my husband, everyone was so nice. Oh my gosh, it was really great. Of course, everything was new to me, so there was any help I was getting from those nice people was just great. And I could adapt much easier thanks to those wonderful people in Narberth.
Phoenix Spencer 19:44
Yeah, yeah, that makes a big difference.
Kasia Nowacki 19:47
Absolutely.
Phoenix Spencer 19:48
How has that original experience changed? So like, what’s your experience living here now? You can talk about job experience, family, friends, education, anything.
Kasia Nowacki 20:01
So, I was really, you know, you always wander how- you never know where life will take you. We plan things and then life just happens. I, so we met so many nice people in the US. There was this Polish woman, I just remember her first name. Her name was Anya, she helped us a lot. Because she found us a job where we lived on this big estate in Wynwood. And we had a much bigger apartment, we’re still just one bedroom apartment above the garage, so it was tiny, tiny, but it was much nicer than the apartment in Narberth and we lived in this big estate, so we had lots of grounds for David to play and walk. And then I met my future boss, which, of course, at that point, I didn’t know he would offer me a job. He is a dentist, and I’ve been working for him for almost 24 years now. So I, of course, I miss my family. My sister, my brother, I grew up there. We had, we have nothing but good memories. But, I made so many great friendships here. And some of my friends are like my family, I have girl friends who I treat like my sisters. So you know, you make the situation the best. I think we’ve had really very, very fortunate that we run into all this wonderful, understanding, generous, and helpful people on our own during our stay in the US.
Phoenix Spencer 22:08
Yeah.
Kasia Nowacki 22:09
So actually, yesterday, was the first time that we had, we were alone for Thanksgiving, because we always spend our Thanksgiving with our friends. So yesterday, I was very, very emotional I have to say. I was tearing up because I really miss my friends. And I don’t know if that’s new, new tradition that we would be alone, hopefully not, hoping that next year we will be together again.
Phoenix Spencer 22:43
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yesterday was very different. I had to go, I drove two hours to and from my grandparents just to see them through the door. Which was sad for me.So if you see any, what are some of the biggest differences between Poland and the US?
Kasia Nowacki 23:03
Oh, what are the- well, I think in the US, everything is very, very, really easy. You, you need a toothbrush, you just get in a car and run to CVS or 5 million other stores where you get a toothbrush. Everything is in reach of your fingers. You know, you need to make a copy, you go to staples, and you make million copies, everything is very, very easy. But what- it’s very fast also, which I’m always- sometimes I catch myself, just running, running, running. And I have to stop and just think for a moment that you have to stop running, running, running, but I think it’s the American way of life. At least the East Coast, I I’ve heard the West Coast is different. In- I think in Poland, the life was much slower. And of course, that’s my experience from 30 years ago, might be, you know, completely different now. But I remember my, my mom, my mom’s neighbors would stop for coffee or tea or just to gossip for a second. Nothing like this happens in the US. And I remember that many, many years ago, I was making a cake, I think, and I didn’t have eggs. And I just went to a woman I was friendly with, she wasn’t my friend, but our kids went to school together, and I went and asked her if she could, if i could borrow two eggs because I was making something and I didn’t have. And she looked at me, she was just so surprised. And then later, I thought, oh my gosh, she probably thought I was crazy, why wouldn’t she just go and buy those eggs, why does she have to bother me? But that was what I would do in Poland, you know? Just go to your neighbors, and then you would give them those two eggs back. So, there was many differences like that. Obviously, Poland is, you know, much older country than US, and we have really different traditions, then in the US. So that’s always- I try to keep some traditions going and they usually are around holidays Christmas and Easter. But, I keep some polish traditions usually food, of course. We try to go to the Christmas mass, which we used to go in Poland but the Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve, and I always have Christmas Eve the traditional Polish way. Okay, so how is it different? People are more friendlier one would think in the US. Everyone, you know, smiles and asks you how are you.
Phoenix Spencer 26:34
Yeah.
Kasia Nowacki 26:35
But it’s really an empty greeting. No one really wants to hear how are you, how I really am.
Phoenix Spencer 26:42
Yeah.
Kasia Nowacki 26:43
And so in Poland, I don’t know if it’s because it’s northern country, people seem not to be so friendly. We don’t pass each other and just saying hello to strangers passing on the street. But when we ask someone how are you, we really mean it. And we are there to listen how are you doing?
Phoenix Spencer 27:10
Yeah, alright. Are women treated differently in Poland?
Kasia Nowacki 27:17
No, no, no, no, no. No, Polish women are independent working. They are treated in a very nice way. There is nothing, no, very respected. They run their families, take care of families, I wouldn’t say that they are treated, treated in any different way than women here. Definitely more, probably, at least women, my my age, you know, they always take care of their family. Maybe men would repair their cars and do stuff around the house, but the laundry and cooking and taking care of kids mostly would fall on a woman’s, in women’s hands.
Phoenix Spencer 28:10
Okay. Are there similarities that surprised you at all between Poland and the US?
Kasia Nowacki 28:19
Well, similarities, I think the biggest similarity is that if you, no matter if you are in Poland and the US, you can always find wonderful people no matter where you live, what language you speak, they speak, you can always make great friendships that would last forever. I still have friends from in Poland where I go and I don’t see them very often, my two girl friends from high school. But when we get together is like time didn’t even pass 30 years. It just- we just catch up on everything and it feels so natural.
Phoenix Spencer 29:02
Yeah.
Kasia Nowacki 29:03
So, that, that’s a really wonderful thing.
Phoenix Spencer 29:06
Okay. How is your social network here and how is that affected or change your experience in the US, do you think?
Kasia Nowacki 29:16
My social network- I, you know, I- and that’s probably because I’m from Poland, I don’t call everyone my friends.
Phoenix Spencer 29:27
Okay.
Kasia Nowacki 29:28
But, I do have wonderful friends. Many of them are actually not- they are also immigrants. One is German, one is from Colombia. I have a Polish girl friend, as well. But, I also have wonderful American friends who are really- help me a lot in, in my life. But, I really have like, you know, I don’t call everyone my friend. Friendship is- I have acquaintances that, that- I think Americans- that’s what’s not very similar in Poland and the US, that people take the word friendship very closely. Everyone is friend. And also the word- I was thinking, even today, I was thinking about it how people very easily say here, I love you. It’s like every other word. I love you, I love you. I love this. I love that. In poland, you know, the word I love you it, we use it very rarely, we would say I like it, or I like you. So, well, I guess I kind of didn’t answer your question about my social, social- I went in the other direction.
Phoenix Spencer 30:57
No, it’s okay.
Kasia Nowacki 30:58
But, but, but, I just- you know, my point was that my social network is not huge. But I have friends who I know if I need something, they would drop everything what they’re doing and come and help me. If I need someone to vent, I have couple of those really, really good friends who will understand me, won’t judge me, will just, will just listen. And I really value their, those friendships.
Phoenix Spencer 31:28
Yeah. Okay. And then I only have a few more questions. So, what do you like and dislike about the United States?
Kasia Nowacki 31:40
You know, I’m an easy going person. So I really like, I really like the US. What I don’t like is the rushing and the value that people put on money and material things rather than, than, feelings, that I don’t like, that I don’t like. This money is a- people worship money. And of course, money is important, but it’s not the most important. I don’t really put value on where people live, how many bedrooms they have, or what car they drive. That, I really don’t like, that even young people put such a value on materialistic things. And in Europe, no one will ask you, within the five minutes you meet someone new, no one in Europe would ask what do you do for a living? It would be considered very, very rude question.
Phoenix Spencer 32:45
Okay.
Kasia Nowacki 32:46
It’s no one’s business. And I, you know, I, I think I had experiences myself with people who would ask me what I do. And I, I’m an office manager for a dental office. I’m not ashamed of it, I’m actually proud. I work for a great dentist. But people sometimes would just think that it’s not, I’m not good enough for them. You know, in the social status. Oh well, I say their loss.
Phoenix Spencer 33:23
Yep.
Kasia Nowacki 33:24
Not mine. Right?
Phoenix Spencer 33:27
Exactly.
Kasia Nowacki 33:27
So, but what I like is that people are really nice. And I love the traditions, like of course Thanksgiving, it’s not a Polish holiday. Because of he started- it’s an American holiday, but I really love it. I like- the people are really mostly very easygoing, and, and helpful, they’re helpful. What I don’t, also like is that like my neighbor- I live on in a very small neighborhood, blue collar, twin houses and I love that because we will rake leaves together or when we have snow, we get out and everyone shovels the snow and we have coffee and do it together. I really love that too, about people that in my neighborhood, at least that are so friendly and helpful and easygoing.
Phoenix Spencer 34:32
Okay. So then my last question would be, are you happy you came here and why or why not?
Kasia Nowacki 34:40
I am happy, I am happy. No regrets.
Phoenix Spencer 34:46
Okay.
Kasia Nowacki 34:47
Um, no, no regrets. But I think the older I get, the more I miss my family. And that- I have have regrets that my kids didn’t grow up around their aunts and uncles and cousins and they do speak Polish, but you know it’s not the same. They didn’t- they don’t have that close connections to my family in Poland, their family in Poland. So, that that that I miss the older I get. I just know how important it is to have family around and yes, I do have great friends who are like my family but it’s just not not the same.
Phoenix Spencer 35:41
Yeah.
Kasia Nowacki 35:42
I also miss not seeing my mom who is ill now and but even in this COVID now, and now, I can’t just drop everything and go because of COVID. It’s just too complicated. So, yeah, the part of the family- you, I’ve have missed so many Christmases. Sometimes when I hear my friends saying, oh, my sister is coming over for Sunday dinner, oh, my heart bleeds.
Phoenix Spencer 36:12
Yeah, aw.
Kasia Nowacki 36:13
Because I would love my sister to come and have dinner together with me. So that’s always hard. That’s always hard.
Phoenix Spencer 36:22
Right, thank you so much for agreeing to do this.
Kasia Nowacki 36:26
Oh, no problem, Phoenix, of course, anything for you.
Phoenix Spencer 36:29
Thank you, I’m going to stop recording now.
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