Interview with P.T, a Millennial Immigrant
In moving from one country to another, where the two nations differ significantly in cultural norms, there is an opportunity for a unique point of view to be formed. Personal identity and experiences are prominent factors in the formation of one’s upbringing and was the narrative I looked for in the process of conducting my interview. PT’s immigration story provided insight into the ways being a millennial immigrant has shaped the narratives and relationships that exist in her life.
That said, I had the privilege of conducting my interview with “PT” , a Burundian-American in her mid-twenties currently residing in the Northern Virginia area. Though she is currently employed, in light of the COVID-19 pandemic, she has been applying herself to more hobbies with the influx of free time. They include biking, cooking, and working out, among other activities. She and I (Vanessa) grew up in the same African community as we live in close proximity to each other, and the families are considerably tight-knit.
As mentioned in the interview, PT’s story of immigration begins with her being born in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) in the midst of a second transnational-ethnic war taking place in the 1990s. For proper context, the first Congolese war resulted in the independence of the DRC, temporarily known as Zaire, and the seize of power by military leader Mobutu Sese Seko. During that time, several other eastern and central African nations experienced internal tension due to the division by ethnic groups, Hutu and Tutsi. Differences could be distinguished by facial features and physical attributes. Rwanda and their militarized Tutsi militia, then known as the Rwandan Patriotic Front, in order to push their agenda, imposed violence on the general Hutu population across several borders, causing the displacement and fleeing of thousands.
Location of PT’s birth.
PT’s mother is Burundian by birth, and her family left the country in the midst of Hutu persecution in the 1970s. This is where she gave birth to PT and her younger sister, despite her fears of exposure as a Hutu refugee in a nation becoming increasingly unstable itself. In the midst of the tension, PT’s mom makes the decision to apply for the green card lottery at the office of immigration within the U.S embassy. In short, the green recipient of a green card via the lottery comes about after a randomized-computer system selects applicants out of an available pool. Selection is typically followed by an interview phase where the associated family members are brought in, and background checked.
This ‘lottery’ system has been dramatically reformed over different administrations. It is now called the Diversity Visa Program, a revamped lottery system with a maximum capacity of fifty thousand applicants. The program’s qualifications in its current state (as of June 2019) calls for increased documentation on the part of migrants and requires the origin nation to be underrepresented within the U.S and have low rates of attempted migration statistically. These measures make immigrating to the U.S harder than before, as many migrants increasingly are faced with large scale life-or-death situations, where the influx of applicants decreases their chances of acceptance. Additionally, the requirement of passports and visas is not always feasible for migrants leaving their home countries, as access to offices and technology hinder them from attaining the right/needed information.
Mobutu Sese Seko
Navigating the new bounds of her home in the U.S, PT mentioned her family being supported initially by programs created to help migrant-refugees acclimate to their reformed lives. Similar to the functions of Civic Assimilation as promoted by the USCIS, the program that PT’s family applied to aided lightly in getting situated to the financial, educational, and otherwise functional norms of Americans. However, programs such as these primarily function to provide a stipend of money for initial footing, as well as arguably vague directions towards places to find community. In the case of PT’s family, their program required that they repay the loan after a period of settlement time.
Lacking vital tools to aid in acclimation to their new environment, PT’s mother took on the responsibility to teach her children English with what she had access to and could understand herself. As a single mother in a foreign country, she eventually had the opportunity to relocate and settle in the Northern Virginia area, where the family was exposed to a network of African families. These families served as a support system, able and very much willing to give and receive favors and assistance from their family friends as needed. As mentioned in the interview, the dynamic created is unique in craft and valuable to creating comfort for ours and other families spanning across the community. There is a range of African nations included in the “roster” of our little African community, as tensions from the homeland are somewhat/temporarily negated for the sake of unity, survival, and collaboration.
Growing up, PT and I had the collective experience of the deep-set trust that arises from a social network such as ours. As noted in the recording, there are many instances in which families, individual parents, and other potential migrants call on the adults in our Northern Virginian community to help out in one way or another. From a personal standpoint, I mentioned how there were a number of times in which my immediate family needed assistance with domestic matters, as did many others in the network, creating a self-established family among us all.
Over time, an air of profound trust arises within the community, as does the hesitancy/distrust towards those outside the network when it comes to handling personal matters. This dynamic exists in circumstances where childcare is involved, strange/foreign traditions, and alternatively times when thAmericans’ood-intentioned behaviors are misinterpreted by permanently wary parents. As immigrant children like PT grow up in this network and are subject to its actions, ordinary activities like sleepovers, away-week(ends), and other activities warranting a liable adult could be considered off-limits depending on the severity of a parent’s strictness.
Shoreside view of Lake Tanganyika
As this transpires into the level of acceptance she received from her time in school, PT admits that her childhood hometown (Northern Virginia) location was increasingly more receptive compared to her family’s initial residence in New York. The area statistically holds a higher number of diverse backgrounds than the rest of the state, arguably due to the high level of reception and adaptability within the established communities and preexisting networks for various nationalities. Where education is concerned, district curriculums were moderately inclusive to broad concepts of race-centered diversity. Still, they could not delve further and highlight other cultures’ details. Despite this reality, the Northern Virginia area is affluent with opportunities to find entry and higher-education level work due to its proximity to the nation’s capital. In the case of many migrants living in the area, prosperity is a bit closer than in other places. The median household income rests comfortably at $100,000, the job market has steadily inclined over the past ten years, and more than 20 of the area’s high schools were ranked in the top 50 for the state.
For PT, social interactions with her peers did not usually include sharing an overwhelming amount of information on her heritage or displaying Burundian/Congolese behaviors in public. To a certain extent, she felt as though it was much more comfortable for her to assimilate towards the American aesthetic, an idealized childhood independent of cultural expression. Early schooling proved this right for PT, as she did not feel pressured to express her roots by her mother, nor the African network we both belong to. Despite a lack of pressure, the inclination to hide traditional outfits brought from “back home” and refusal to pack homemade dishes still trickled in to reinforce the Americanization occurring. This is not out of embarrassment for her native culture, but rather a signifier of issues to overcome inherent individuality, something I assume many other immigrant children experience as well.
A marketplace central within the capital city of Burundi, Bujumbura. Fruits and other products are bartered here.
Though extensive scale discrimination did not fall on PT throughout her schooling years, there were a few remnants of microaggressions at the hands of her peers, perhaps a mix of confusion and blunt curiosity. In one of the stories she told during the interview session, PT noted a time when a boy in her class pointed out her “big lips,” a physical attribute she could not control, nor she did realize (at the time) made her look different from her other classmates. Similarly, she mentioned another instance where she was told by a peer that she could not dress up as “Cinderella” because she was not the right skin tone, referencing her complexion. The occurrences are certifiably problematic in nature, though it just stood to shape how she understood identity as an African American immigrant at the time of the interaction.
An extension of peer acceptance is the way in which one both consciously and subconsciously molds their identity as they age. That said, many immigrant children can find themselves asking, “Who am I if I can be the person I want?” In the process of growing up and learning to understand herself, it is evident that PT embraces the person she created herself to be after accumulating various parts of hers, her mother’s, and her expanding identity as an American-raised child. Nonetheless, it is strenuous for immigrant and migrant children alike (as to not exclude second-generations) to establish their identity and ground themselves in an expression of culture when there is a lack of material to learn from. Specific to PT’s case and perhaps other refugee children, it isn’t entirely comfortable inquiring about your familial history when it can be riddled with pain and suffering your source can vividly recall. The events that took place in Congo and Burundi took place not more than 30 years ago, and claimed an influential and trying time in the lives of adults within our network, rendering it a sensitive topic unless otherwise stated.
Rural landscape of Burundi
For many children of migrant parents, and those who immigrated at an age too young to remember details, much of their international identity is reliant on the information passed on by their parents. Though stories, recollections, and pictures can vividly portray what “back home” is like, there is nothing quite like experiencing the country yourself. PT had the opportunity to visit Burundi with her mother after fleeing Congo in the 1990s, and it was there that she could piece together the stories she had heard with the landscape in front of her. She recalls (as do I on my respective trip) being fascinated with the food she ate and an immense sense of unity that poured out of her family members meeting her for the first time. The fruits, she said, were bright in color and immensely rich in flavor. Unlike the fruits found in American supermarkets, they are very much, and PT’s mom makes sure to remind her of that fact. 
Many of the experiences that PT was exposed to during her time in Burundi she carried back with her to learn from and further enrich the influence of her heritage in the present. She has been able to contact her cousins and relatives over the phone and via Whatsapp, as best she can. In her experience, she has had a lot of fun interacting with cousins, noting the importance of keeping a disconnected family unified. In addition to this, PT aims to establish a legacy for herself, current members, and those to join her family in the future for the sake of, again, a united and loving front.
To PT, the millennial immigrant point of view meant that her understanding of the world is inherently broadened as she is continuously in the mindset to comprehend the interactions between (sometimes) differing customs. There is an advantage to having such a unique point of view. It creates a space for others to perceive themselves from an alternative point of view, and as a result, develop a profound understanding of them. Nonetheless, there are some lighter aspects to being a migrant millenial, she mentioned, as she references the use of social media apps such as “Vine” and “TikTok.” In their designs to provide funny content, these apps subsequently create and connect online networks of African migrants children through videos alluding to the funny instances they find themselves in when talking to adults in their lives.
Typical environment surrounding Burundian villages.
Towards the end of the interview, PT and I discussed our raising kids’ reality in relation to our unique upbringing and blended identities. It was evident for both of us that we wanted to retain the honorable sacrifices that our parents made for our well-being and the reality of our families’ immigration circumstances. There is a legacy to be built yet…
Vanessa Nkurunziza 0:02
This is an interview with Vanessa Nkurunziza and PT.
We are [conducting] this interview for my Sociology of Immigration class, Dr. Troulle, Sociology 318.
PT 0:18
And we’re here to discuss P’s immigration and her story that led up to [it] and how she’s living her life now. So if you’d like to introduce yourself and talk a little bit about where you’re at right now [in life], briefly?
Perfect. Hi, I’m P. I also go by P, that’s my nickname. Currently I’m doing well [living] in Virginia, I’m doing work from home kind of just doing the best I can. I spend a lot of my time cooking. [B]efore when it was warmer, I would go outside, I love to rollerblade and go biking as well. That’s me.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 1:02
Awesome. Could you tell us [listeners] where you migrated from and how long you’ve been in the U.S?
PT 1:08
Of course. So I was born in DRC, Democratic Republic of Congo, back in the 1990s. And in 2000, that’s when me and my small little family came to the US.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 1:22
Awesome, okay.
[So] obviously, I am also a child of immigrant parents. And we have a small connection, like culturally. But that will come into play, I guess a little bit later on. So to start off, what situation or series of events led to your initial migration to the US?
PT 1:44
[The migration occured when] I was I was a young child. So, everything is coming from my mom and the stories that she’s told us. But essentially, we came to the US, due to a what’s called a Green Card Lottery. [I had to] look it up to see what it was actually called.
It was the diversity visa program, so during that time (it was about 1998) when we started the process, and basically, in DRC, there was a few different wars going on. [That said] we were classified as refugees trying to get out of the country. Luckily, we were able to get access into the Green Card Lottery and [eventually] ended up in New York.
How exactly does a Green Card Lottery work? Did your parents apply for it directly? Or is everyone submitted into [the drawing]?
They have the office there [in the DRC embassy], they have the the immigration office there, and you go there and you test your luck. If you’re selected, you move on to the next process[…]then it’s, it’s just like a betting there isn’t any rhyme or reason. [Normally] it’s like, you can grab a ticket and they go 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8. [For] my mom, she went in there and there were people waiting, they’ve been waiting in line to try to get a lottery ticket.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, to try to get a green card, some people were waiting for years as well. Just as it’s the US like, everybody was trying to enter the US, everybody wants to go to the US or Canada. But for my mom, she was able to walk in there…she by the grace of God, was able to pass on to the next step. [At] the final step, they they have to check to see who who the kids are and who the parents are. She passed the net and then that’s how we ended up over here. But yeah, it’s it’s very random. It’s not it’s a lottery. It’s a lottery system. Yeah, but you apply and if you get in…you get in then and if you don’t…you don’t.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 4:01
Do you [happen to] know why they like have to check-in on the family after she won? Like, is it not that the whole family gets to [leave] automatically?
Unknown Speaker 4:10
Correct. Yeah. So in my situation, the whole family was not a part [of the lottery] ,the whole family was not included in the ticket. The agent just had to make sure that both parents were aware of the situation, both kids were leaving the country [and such].
Vanessa Nkurunziza 4:33
[Additionally, you] mentioned wars. Could you give a little bit of backstory for our listeners on that [aspect]?
PT 4:43
Of course. Yeah. I’m not sure how much listeners are aware of DRC. The DRC is known for being just like common battlegrounds [in central Africa] for a long time, throughout history, just because there’s a lot of wealth within the country. With wealth, I’m saying [rich] with diamonds and oil, a lot of natural resources, so people are continuously fighting for it. During our time there, from [what my mom and] I remember it was between Rwanda and Uganda, and, and they were trying to overthrow the government of Mobutu. Yeah, and that’s is basically, as far as I know, I don’t know too much of history from that time.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 5:37
[So], would you say your family was in imminent danger leaving [DRC], at the time that you won the Green Card Lottery? Or was it just sort of a sigh of relief, being able to leave the country?
PT 5:45
So my mom always tells me that, I didn’t look Congolese. So it’s like,[she would hide me and my sister inside] we would only come out at night for the fear of being like something happening to us during that time. So for her, I was definitely sigh of relief, she was ready to get out of there. That is never fun, to be in a war-torn country.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 6:11
After getting the Green Card Lottery ticket, do you have to pay for your own plane tickets and everything to get to the U.S? Was it hard? Do you know, as far as you know, was it difficult for your parents like coming up with money? Or are there ways that people were able to help them get there [the U.S] ? Did they save up?
PT 6:29
Yeah. There was a program we were part of, a program that because again, we were refugees so there were a few different organizations, there’s a list of them, I don’t have the list off the top of my head.
But they have taken refugees and tried to settle them in [acclimated culturally]. And then they provide you with education, so they helped my mom get into school. They help they help you find your footing. It’s not a big amount, but it’s enough in the US. And so after that you have to eventually, you have to repay back the debt.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 7:07
Well, that’s good. That’s convenient. So coming here is really a lot more expensive. Paying for stuff.
[What] was the family dynamic? Were you guys very bonded during this time? Would you say that, you got very close with, like your family members when you were this young? Do you remember certain [experiences] that brought you guys together in this difficult time?
PT 7:33
When we first got to the US, we weren’t in the in the nicest of places. {Refferencing time in New York}. [Initially] it was a lot of just me and my sister, we were together all the time. All the time, we were together, because we only had each other you know. My mom, she was doing her best to make sure that we felt integrated with everything. She was teaching us as much English as we could learn as we could, like, push down our throats. It was a learning experience for all of us, Yeah.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 8:02
Gotcha, and you mentioned learning English [after arriving]. How would you say your experience with learning English was? [Did] it interfere with your knowledge of your prior language? {If yes,} What did you speak?
PT 8:15
My first language is French and I/we spoke French back in Congo. We saw once we came to the US, that the U.S. education system like they prefer especially immigrants to learn English, you know, this was before. Nowadays, they’re more accepting of bilingual students, but when we were coming in, English was the way. English was very important. They [schools] didn’t have the resources to provide translators or things like that. Man, I feel old. So, my mom taught us English. I was like five years old so it wasn’t too hard to start learning English. In fact, I don’t actually speak French now that I’m grown. I don’t speak French at all, I lost it just because we never practiced it in the house. My mom was adamant about us learning English so that we can integrate more for education.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 9:22
I know that I experienced the same thing…my parents. I went to preschool knowing our native language, Kirundi and now I don’t speak it anymore.
Anyway, so as you were growing up, did your mom enroll you in school? Like, how was that growing up with your peers and stuff. [Your] experience with education?
PT 9:53
That’s a good question.
[School] was good. I have like faint memories here and there. But one of, just this random thing that I remember from school [I was in] first grade. It was Halloween. I know it was kindergarten, my first Halloween in America. And I want it to be a princess. Okay, I want it to be a princess. I got this blue dress with Cinderella on it. This one kid in my class, he comes in and he’s like, “You can’t be a princess”. And I’m like, why? He’s like, because “You’re not white”. I was like, “why?” But at the time, it didn’t make any sense for like, looking back now. I’m just like, dang. Um, but school was good. We were very fortunate to be placed in the Northern Virginia area where school is plentiful. And school is…they’re very engaging.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 10:51
I think like, Yeah, [there’s] a little more diversity around the Northern Virginia area. So there are things that make their students different from each other and different from their surroundings. A little bit.
PT 11:04
Yeah, well, when I talk to other people who went to other school districts, like for us for field trips and stuff, like we learned a lot during our field trips, you know, we’d always had a Washington, DC [trip] and we’d always visit important places, honestly. But not everybody has those same advantages. Even being close to this close to DC is another big advantage. But education was great. Honestly, I cannot complain about my early education or even my middle school education or high school. Very fortunate. Very blessed. Yeah.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 11:33
Did you feel like there were any microaggressions [present]? Or did you feel like you were accepted by your peers? For the most part?
PT 11:44
As much as it was diverse, like, I noticed, especially with black Americans, like I was, I started noticing a difference maybe in, third grade or something. When this one kid made fun of my lips, and I was like, what, like, What the heck? I don’t know. But as for any microaggressions not when I was younger, I wasn’t aware of them. You know, but then looking back now you’re like, oh, wow, like that…that definitely was. But none come to mind right now I’m sorry.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 12:55
So would you say that, um, like, your periods are accepting of like your culture? Did you feel inclined to share things that went on at home with them? Like, from home that maybe your mom wanted you to embrace as a Congolese child?
PT 13:10
That’s a really good question. Yeah, I mean, growing up, like my mom, she wanted me to wear like just the traditional outfits and stuff. But I pushed away my African side for a long time for a while. That’s just because like, it wasn’t what everybody else was doing. 100% it was because nobody else was doing it. Then even for food and stuff, I stopped wanting to eat my mom’s cooking. And because I only wanted American food, silly me. But, um, it was there was definitely some of that happening as I grew older, and I never really shared or, told people really, that I was African. I was just like, you know, I never made it a big deal. I wasn’t loud and proud. I was just like, Oh, I’m African, and we move on. But that’s definitely changed now [with] growing up. And not so much so much. And people weren’t. I mean, because I never really said anything. I guess nobody really asked you know, so it was really interesting. Yeah.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 14:18
No one, actively asked you to engage with your culture is that correct?
PT 14:23
Correct. Yeah, because I never brought it to the forefront. I’ve never.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 14:29
So would you say that you presented yourself more as an American child than a Congolese child?
PT 14:36
Oh, 100% 100% 100% Yeah, just because it was it was the norm you know, especially a new child coming in, you don’t know much. And you just want to fit in. You just want to be like everybody else. And everybody else is not from a different country. Yeah, you know, but yeah,
Vanessa Nkurunziza 14:59
Mm hmm. Okay, so moving along, what would you say was like the social dynamic of your Congolese-African community in the US?
PT 15:10
In the US? Oh, when we were younger, like it was…it’s funny because everybody, everybody, yeah, we {Vanessa and P} kind of like grew up all together.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 15:21
So there were other kids your age?
PT 15:23
Yeah.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 15:23
…migrating from other countries? If you want to name some…
PT 15:30
Rwanda. We had a close family. [They were] from Rwanda. We grew up like, like, sisters. And we were, yeah…and like we were. I mean, I feel like when we were younger, we just were over at each other’s houses all the time. All the time.
Yeah. Fun.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 15:54
*laughing and agreeing*
PT 15:56
Right? Oh, my gosh, it’s like 2am. I want to go home like, Oh, yeah, no, we’re leaving now. Yeah. That “going home” speech lasted maybe four hours.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 16:05
Exactly!
PT 16:06
And you can’t explain that {shared mutual experience} to other people who aren’t African because it’s like other other moms especially they’re just like, “Okay, time to go home” and we go home, like us, you know, when your mom says, “I’m gonna go home”, give her two hours, then put on your shoes, wait another hour, then go get some food, and then you’re good to go?
Vanessa Nkurunziza 16:26
Exactly.
If they don’t bring us 7 things of chicken at first. You know what I mean?
PT 16:32
Um, no, I feel that.
So how would you say was the relationship with other migrant children your age? Just like I guess within the community? Did you guys rely on each other because you were in the same situations…or not so much?
I think it was more just proximity, like we were always with and around each other, you know? I guess but also like, we never really like looked at it as, we’re from a different country. Of course, as we got older, I want to say [around] middle school and high school, we started recognizing and noticing. But when you’re younger, you know, you’re young, you’re carefree. You’re just having fun with this person who you see almost every weekend. Um, yeah, so it was never really, I would definitely say it’s because we were always just close to one another. Even in my current neighborhood, too we had a close family-friend from Sudan, and we were just, again, always, with each other, always near each other.
But I know, our {Vanessa and P’s} moms rely, lean on each other for support.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 17:34
Absolutely, yes, I know, like, I guess getting personal, my [little] sister had a lot of health issues growing up. I know that your mom would come like with you guys, and help take care of us like with my mom and everything, which is just like, shows, I think the African community even though like my parents immigrated from Burundi. It shows that there’s still a level of like “understanding” between [everyone].
PT 18:04
Mhmm.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 18:02
There’s a a lot of transparency and willingness to be vulnerable, and you can’t necessarily be in a new situation with people who don’t relate to your culture as much
PT 18:13
Correct. Oh, yeah.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 18:16
So moving along, what would you say is…what do you feel is the most unique thing about being a millennial[migrant]?
PT 18:24
Ooh, I think I always say this, but I always say that everybody should go overseas to a country and just to see the the differences. I think you gain a different acceptance or appreciation of life, and I think that’s what makes me as a millennial… just because I’m able to really focus on where I’ve come from, and to use that to, fuel me to go further, you know?
I think that’s something that like, not everybody possesses, but if you come from a country where it’s not like a first world country, like it’s different, like you’re fighting because you got to fight. You know, and then you just have a different appreciation of life and working hard to get what you want because one, you’ve seen your parents go through it, and you know that they can be done. It’s just, it’s just more fuel.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 19:31
Would you say you have like a unique point of view compared to other people that you work with? Or like your peers and such?
PT 19:39
Oh, 100% and then it’s hard to explain that {factor] to some people. When people ask me, “Oh, why are you so positive?” [Blah, blah this and that..] I’m like, “oh, because I’ve seen what life could be and been and I’ve lived through it”.
The life that I live now is beautiful, you know, so it definitely keeps me positive and it but that idea that like, appreciation of life is you can’t really teach it…
Vanessa Nkurunziza 20:08
You know, I agree, I think it’s sort of a humbling experience. Knowing that your parents have come from one place, and then being in another.
Well, let me also…let me ask this, have you had the opportunity to go back to Congo?
PT 20:22
Congo? Yeah, so I wasn’t able to go back to Congo, but actually went back to Burundi. That’s where my mom is from. Yeah, so we went back to Burundi for like, two weeks, a few years ago, and it was Oui {oh my goodness}, my skin, my skin was glowing. My skin was glowing!
Vanessa Nkurunziza 20:42
It’s like a full body detox, haha.
PT 20:44
It really is, really is. I don’t know what kind of sun they have down there, but it’s glowing. But other than that, it was very eye opening, I got to see my cousins, I got to see my other family members. It was, I didn’t understand what anybody was saying. But I had a whole lot of fun.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 21:00
Was it difficult or was it interesting, finally, like coming back to a place that you’ve heard for so long? I know for myself, going to Burundi in 2012 and in 2019, I was just sort of like, “Oh, the puzzle pieces fit!” just sort of like, being able to see everything that your parents have talked about for so long.
PT 21:33
Yeah, I was gonna say like, those stories that your parents always talk about, it’s like, now it makes sense. “Now I see it. Now I see it”. I think my favorite part of going back and like visiting Burundi was when mom, like, I mean, I don’t know if your mom shares a lot of stories with you but my mom, she loves sharing stories.
{Referencing her trip to Burundi}…and like, we’ll be riding through with the Jeep and she’ll be like, “Oh, this is where this and this and this happened” ,and you’re able to be like, “OH”, like, just like you said, connect the two dots and kind of like, really visualize and see where, where they where she was or where she came from.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 22:09
And it’s so funny especially when in Burundi my parents are like, “Oh, this is like my hill{home} and stuff”. And so I’m like, Oh, this is, this is the scene, this is a setting like, I can see everyone here talking like in the story. It’s kind of heartwarming, too because like, I think that as much as our parents, needed to come here for their respective reasons, there’s a way that they light up being able to go back to their home.
Oh yeah, um, it’s that nostalgia.
Did you feel a weird sense of nostalgia leaving [Burundi]? Or did you feel like you were leaving a part of yourself behind? What was your experience, just like, after the fact finally going back [to the U.S.]?
PT 22:49
I, after coming back I had to like process a lot, because that’s mainly where I like, just became really thankful for everything that my mom did and where I came from. That’s actually just where like, where I looked more into being African, like, what that means, etc, etc.
So coming back, I had to come back to like, finals. So that part was not fun, but coming back, but yeah, it was just a deeper appreciation for my mom and like, where she came from, and who she was as a person. And just like, me being like, it’s almost like I learned a little bit about myself. You know? I feel like my identity is so wishy washy, just because, it’s like I’m American, but I also have this other side of me. And I know my American side very well. But it’s like, how do I learn more about the other side? And that was definitely eye opening for me.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 24:03
Absolutely. I feel like for at least the 12 years before I was able to go to Burundi, my Burundian identity was reliant on what everyone had told me about it. I only had access to the knowledge that people wanted me to know. It just felt like a certain sense of like, gatekeeping from your own community? Like your parents don’t want you to know everything, at least in our situation. With the with the wars that went on, I know that it was painful, and everything so there’s certain things that they don’t want to say, but there’s so much beauty in the country. So being able to experience it for ourselves…it’s just it’s so enlightening and it’s a yearning for belonging that you can finally put a finger on.
PT 24:41
And can we talk about the fruit though? Like the fruit just *chef’s kiss* ah! oh!
Vanessa Nkurunziza 24:45
So organic!
PT 24:47
Everything is good. Everything is fresh and [sometimes you’re like] what is this?
Vanessa Nkurunziza 24:52
No, I just remember my mom like sticking different fruits in my face like “Try this! Try this!”. And I was like, What is this like purple thing? Wow, oh my goodness…and the bananas. My parents go crazy. Like they literally go bananas for bananas.
PT 25:05
Do your parents like… not like the fruits here? Or do they always say something when they bite into a pineapple or something?
Vanessa Nkurunziza 25:16
They’re like “it doesn’t taste the same!”. Yeah haha. I’m like, “guys, like, it’s the best we’ve got right now”. Um, I don’t know about you guys, but like my parents always talked about finally being able to go back to Burundi, enjoy and have the ability to be comfortable, and make their families comfortable in their old age and stuff. Which is also like…kind of nice, but also, like, sombering to see, because they don’t want to stay here [in the U.S]. I don’t know, regardless of how we {P and Vanessa} both feel about staying in this country, it’s just kind of interesting to see that we might not be able to be in the same country as our parents when we get older.
PT 25:53
That’s an interesting point. Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s what they, [desire].
When you think about it, like they lived a lot of their lives in another country, you know, and, the values that are in America, it’s like, yes, there’s a lot of opportunities, but that family like aspect, and not just living a good life… You know, if you look at peoples’ happiness levels, like people are so much happier back home, just because they’re more content, you know? Yeah, it’s not a constant battle. I mean, you’re battling other things, but it’s not funny…but it’s just, it’s just more comfortable back home.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 26:36
You mentioned just then, norms and everything for [respective] the countries. Did you ever feel like your mom or whoever in the community was holding you to a certain expectation for either, your Burundian, Congolese, or an American side of you? That like you really couldn’t, like compete with?
PT 26:56
Um, no. No, never really felt like I was never really felt like I was competing against anything or anybody. Of course, education is number one, of course, and you have to do your best, you know, but as for competing, I mean, I’m the oldest. So it was kind of just me, myself and I. Since we’re [one of the] first families over here in the U.S we literally started from the ground up, we don’t have answers. There wasn’t a lot to compare to, you just know that you had to get good grades, go to college and get a good job.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 27:35
How is college for you? If you’d like to share, I guess with other listeners…
PT 27:41
College was college. Hnestly, I never really thought it was going to go to college when I was younger, just because my financial situation. I never could see myself affording college but I busted my ass and I did it.
I don’t know, college was college. I didn’t have like the typical college experience. Sometimes I wish I did. Sometimes I’m happy I didn’t because I was able to focus on other things. I definitely view college as experimental; you get your degree and then you keep going. I’m not the biggest fan of in America, we love to push the “college experience” and then that leaves a lot of people like…
Vanessa Nkurunziza 28:37
…yearning for something that doesn’t really exist?
PT 28:39
Yeah, yeah.
Then it’s like, they [society] almost make it make you think that college is like, “Oh, that’s the best time of your life”, when in reality, it’s really get your degree and keep pushing. That’s just, that’s just the start of everything.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 28:56
Absolutely. Yeah.
PT 28:58
Then nowadays, like, I don’t even know what up with education. I don’t know what’s gonna happen with that. Yeah, with COVID and stuff, too.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 29:06
So would you say that you’ve developed a relationship with your family members back home since going back/returning?
PT 29:12
Oh, 100% 100%. We were texting back and forth a little bit, but when we came back, like I really grew really close to one of my older cousins, like, and we’ll text and we’ll talk nowadays. I also became really close to some of my other cousins as well, but they don’t live, in Africa. I definitely…I’ve also wanted to keep us together because we’re all that we have, you know? It’s like, what happens when our parents are gone? You know, our parents are the ones that are communicating the most right now. But when they go like, we need to be able to communicate like we need to be able to keep each other together like come on!
Vanessa Nkurunziza 29:54
Absolutely, absolutely. No, I feel that. I think that sometimes I get a little bit timid, trying to talk to my cousin’s on the phone just because my Kirundi is not good. It is very broken. Obviously, they don’t speak the best English either, so sometimes I feel like I’m lacking depth in the conversation or story.
PT 30:16
That language barrier really does stop a lot. One thing I will suggest, I don’t know if you’ve done it, but sit down and like make a spreadsheet with everybody’s birthdays and names and who their parents are.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 30:31
Mhmm, haha yeah.
PT 30:32
Just make a spreadsheet of all the cousins, get them all together and get their birthdays, get their names. Get their parents, get wherever they are [in the country].
Vanessa Nkurunziza 30:43
Honestly, that’ll probably keep me on task {in a family context} and keeping them as an importance in my life.
PT 30:48
Mm hmm.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 30:51
How similar would you say your experience in the US has been to your siblings? Do you think that like, they took a different route trying to process the different aspects of being American and being African as well?
PT 31:09
Yeah, I was the oldest so I definitely am able to remember more and like, I was going through more, I was processing more because I was older. My siblings, they’ve had pretty standard American experience, I will say me and my sister we discuss about that sense of belonging and not feeling like we belong to any certain group. Just because it’s different to try and explain your [migrant] situation, you know. The only other people who really get it are other immigrant children, that’s the only people willing to get it. So it’s like, kind of hard to, we’ve had this discussion of wanting to feel like you belong somewhere, but like not finding that place.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 31:54
Yes. Which can be totally frustrating,I think. I know that in talking to my sister I’m always just like, I feel like I missing like a puzzle piece. It’s just the wrong puzzle, like all together. Which is just very frustrating. I don’t know where to bury my identity and I think that it’s, it’s interesting, I think. I like to think of myself as a dynamic character in a story because I have a lot of different parts to me that are pieced together because like, I like to pull certain things from my like, Burundian idenity and things from American side, things that carry over culturally and stuff. At the same time, like, no one is like me, and being unique is like a single track thing. Trying to become confident in myself.
PT 32:45
Hmm.
It is no, it is girl, especially when you’re younger. I mean, now that we know, like, we’re able to kind of like create things. Imagine if you were told this or like, had somebody talk to you when you were younger, somebody like you right now, but you’re able to talk to them when you’re younger. I feel like a lot of like, we learn all of this {finding our identity} , and we process this by ourselves. It kind of makes it harder, it draws out the process {of becoming yourself}. I feel like it draws out the process. Imagine if you had an older Vanessa to talk to little Vanessa, you know? That would solve so many things, to be like, “It’s okay to feel like this”. I don’t know, I definitely feel like that would have helped.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 33:29
Like we’re together. But it’s still a part because it’s just like identity, I think is such a an interesting thing to interact with on your own. I think it’s nice. I think it’s refreshing for other people. I think it gives you a unique point of view to bring to the table as well.
PT 33:48
Totally. That’s why you need diversity in all your teams.
Absolutely, yes because then you got a new point of view coming in and providing some advice. Okay, well, would you like to add anything else to our interview? Any advice for our viewers, or maybe things that we should know about being an immigrant moving forward that are unique to you?
Yes. Since you talked about in the beginning, I want to look into dating. Actually there’s two things.
Right, like on social media, when you look at these tik tok about, “Oh, my, my African mom does this or this or this?” Can you relate to those?
Vanessa Nkurunziza 34:56
Oh, yes, for sure. Those are really funny.
PT 35:01
It’s funny how you can relate. I agree it’s crazy. We can still relate to that but have…
I think it’s really funny how social media has been able to almost like connect different groups of people. It’s almost like everybody had the same childhood. We did, but we didn’t. I don’t know. *chuckles*
Vanessa Nkurunziza 35:20
It was like [a network of] brothers and sisters because I remember, I think it didn’t even start on TikTok. I remember Vine. Me and my sister, we just…I think get started and didn’t stop like different videos of situations that African kids find themselves in with their parents. Like, for one reason or another, there’s like a miscommunication of how, like, you understand a certain concept or how Africans in a certain concept. It’s just like, the scenario is making you laugh, because you’re feeling this is like content just for me. It’s like family humor.
PT 35:54
Yeah.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 35:56
It’s kind of nice. I think I could…not bury my identity in it, but just, resonate with some more people and know that I’m not alone. That I’m not the only person experiencing this. At least like, I’m not going crazy. You know?
PT 36:11
Correct. Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. And then I just wanted to touch on like, your future kids, if you plan to have any, how do you plan on raising them?
Vanessa Nkurunziza 36:24
Like you’re asking me?
PT 36:27
I’m asking you, yeah.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 36:28
Okay haha
PT 36:30
Or you can ask me, I don’t know.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 36:33
So I’ve changed my mind all the time. I think that having kids is a difficult thing. I like to think that my parents did the best that they can, in a not hostile but new environment, you know what I mean? I think [as far as] doing things without your immediate family, like your grandparents and your siblings and such. They were both like younger, like younger siblings in their family so they helped raise their older siblings, children. Not having that back is just a very difficult thing. I think.
PT 37:04
Isn’t it? Oh, my God.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 37:07
Then taking into account to that, like they escaped, war. So it wasn’t really on their own terms, I think that maybe there’s a slight resentment. I think that maybe each immigrant child can maybe attest to that just a little bit…of stress that maybe you could be bringing your parents because they might have been happier raising you back home.
Knowing that they they care about you, and that they’re here because they want what’s best for you, I want to be able to share that story with my kids. Know that like there’s empathy that grows. And that their story, the things that they did for me, and the sacrifices they made are for them, too. It’s like a legacy that we’re starting.
PT 37:50
Yup, mm hmm.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 37:52
Maybe perfecting certain certain cultural habits, like I know. I’m just going to put it out there, spanking.
I think that certain things with parenting that way, and like, I know that my parents at least were very sheltering, because they were unsure of what was going on outside of their own limits. With the community and stuff, you know, like going and hanging out with friends that aren’t within our [African] community is big trust issue for them, I think. So maybe also, I want my kids to breathe a little bit more than I could, would be the first step in my parenting and then bringing in the unique perspective and making sure that they know that they’re people who are comprised of a diverse background. That was a long answer. Okay, now you.
PT 38:46
I like that. I agree with your points. Yeah, I could not figure out the words but I agree with your points in the sense that there are some things that are, completely out of their control just like my mom, she came here by herself. She didn’t know too much. So it’s like it was a learning process for her. But other than that, like I definitely want to bring or teach my kids just the amount of sacrifices that their grandmother made for them. Carry on and like to keep it pushing and to know that like we’re out here for a reason. We’re trying to build a legacy, it started with your grandmother. Yeah, as for like cultures and stuff we’re still eating African food. So definitely keeping food definitely keeping outfits and definitely going to parties.
Vanessa Nkurunziza 39:47
Yes, absolutely.
PT 39:48
Also the family values and like the sticking up for your family. I feel like American families here are not as close either to their community or to their family. So definitely trying to instill that idea of community and staying with your family.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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