Tracey Amey and Joel Amey Interview, History 150 Spring 2019, Conducted by Natalie Amey, March 8, 2019.

 

1. This interview was conducted in person with a snowball microphone. I used my room to create a quite space for my interviewees to answer all of the questions. During the interview with Joel, I edited about two minutes out because we were laughing and you could not understand what we were talking about. Due to my interviewees having conflicting schedules, I did their interviews separately. After they were done, I used Audacity to put the interviews together, so they would be in one MP3 and I used Temi.com to create the transcription.
2. Tracey Amey and Joel Amey both graduated from The State University of New York at New Paltz with their degree in elementary education in 1991. While both applied to teach after college only Tracey was able to get a job. Joel then went into the military and then into the corporate sector instead of teaching. Since Joel joined the military, both Tracey and Joel moved around for several years. Because of this Tracey had to continue to apply to new schools and enter new school systems. After this Tracey and Joel moved to Virginia, were Joel started working for Capital One and Tracey worked as a teacher until they had children. At this point Tracey stopped working until about five years ago, when she started working as a reading specialist in an elementary school.
3. Starting in the 1970s, Americans were more likely to go to college and get their bachelor’s degree. In 1991 more women were attaining a bachelor’s degree than men. This flip would have been occurring as Joel and Tracey were growing up and going to college. Since this took place in all majors, it contextualizes why Joel was in the minority in his classes during his college career. In 1991, when Tracey and Joel were graduating college and beginning to apply to work as a teacher, 56.45% of teachers were female worldwide. This made it harder for a male to get a job as a teacher, especially in elementary school, since most male teachers were hired for higher levels of education. In 2011 to 2012, 76% of teachers were female. In elementary schools there are fewer male teachers than there are in middle schools and high schools. As the students get older there are more male teachers, but even in high school male teachers only make up 41.5% of the teacher population.
4. [Start of Transcription]

NA:     My name is Natalie. Amy and I will be interviewing Joel and Tracey. Amey For my interview about gender norms in the education workplace. Can you please state your name and if you give consent for this interview to be published.

TA:      My name is Tracey Amey and I give consent for this to be published.

JA:      My name is Joel Amey and I give consent for this to be published.

NA:     Tracey, you grew up in the 80s while you were going to school. Do you remember having many male teachers or was it mostly female teachers when you were in elementary school and high school?

TA:      Yes, I had maybe about eight male teachers that I can remember.

NA:     Okay, so you went to college at Suny New Paltz University in New York. When did you graduate college and what was your major and minor?

TA:      I graduated college in 1991 I was an elementary ed major with a dance minor.

NA:     Since you majored in education, when did you decide that you wanted to major in education and then later become a teacher?

TA:      I kind of fell into the major. I took classes that interested me, like child psychology. I knew I wanted to do something with kids. I thought about possibly teaching dance and then finally I just decided elementary ed. seemed to fit.

NA:     What do you remember about the number of males in your education classes during college?

TA:      I remember there being a fair amount of males in the general education required classes, but then the ones that were more specific to elementary ed, there were very few.

NA:     While in college. Did you ever feel out of place based on your gender and your education classes?

TA:      No, I was definitely in the majority with women in my classes.

NA:     After college, you applied to become an elementary school teacher. Were there any difficulties that you remember from this process or anything else that you remember from applying to work as a teacher after college?

TA:      After college, applying to teach elementary education where I was from, which was New York state, it was much more competitive. There they have a ten year system and teachers often don’t leave unless they’ve retired, so there’s many, many people applying for few jobs. Here in Virginia however, I found that there were a lot more opportunities and because it’s a more transient area, I was able to find jobs easier.

NA:     Did you ever feel that your gender played a role in whether or not you got a job when you were applying after college?

TA:      I don’t think my gender played a role. I think that being young was a plus and also, being newly out of college was actually a plus because I think they looked at teachers that are young and fresh out of college as though they have some great new ideas and they’re ready to put forth 100% effort in their new positions.

NA:     Once you began to teach after college, did you have many male coworkers? Has that change since you began working again in 2014?

TA:      When I first started teaching the only males that worked in my school where the PE teacher and the administrator, now that I was out of the classroom for many years and back into the classroom, I have males in many different roles. I teach alongside males. Several of the computer technicians are males and even administrators are both male and female. So, I feel as though there’s many more males in the elementary program in today’s day.

NA:     When you started working, you were teaching in New York, then you moved to North Carolina, and then Virginia. As you moved around, was there a difference in the number of males you’re working with? Can you explain or give any examples?

TA:      When I started working back in, I guess it was 1991-1992 time frame in New York, the only males I can remember in the elementary school working with me was the administrator, the principal, and the PE teacher. Now, as I moved to North Carolina, the only male teacher we had in the entire school was the PE teacher. When I moved back to Virginia, once again, I would say it was only the PE teacher and then, I took a leave of absence, which extended to many years while I stayed home raising my kids. As I’ve come back into the workforce, though here within the past, say seven years, I noticed there are more male teachers dispersed within the elementary school. We have not only is the PE teacher male, but also, our ITRT is male, we have a fifth grade, a third grade teacher that are both male and it seems as though my administration now almost looks to hire more males because of the positive influence they can have on young children, especially children today that may or may not have a strong male figure in their life. So I would say there wasn’t much difference comparing place to place, but more comparing the start of my career to my current career. Did I see an increase in male presence in the elementary school?

NA:     Okay, you quit your job when you had Emily. Did you feel obligated to quit instead of being a working mom?

TA:      Well, I had my first child and I had always dreamt that I would stay home with my kids when I had children. I just feel really strongly about wanting to be there for,their firsts first time they talked and first time they walked in, so forth. But, I didn’t know it would be financially possible when I first found out that I was going to have a child. So my plan was to take a leave of absence, which would hold my job for one year and then I could come back to teaching, but at least I would be there for that initial year because I have read so much research that emphasizes what a big and important time, the zero to three is in the formation of a child life. So I want it to be there for as much of that as I possibly could. Interestingly enough, as a teacher, my pay didn’t really change very much, but my husband was able to get a large promotion, which included a pay raise. So what was supposed to be a year leave of absence turned into many years. I went on to have two more children and I was able to stay home with all three. It was only when my third one was a toddler and sort of looking to her going to kindergarten over the next couple of years did I start to think about maybe heading back to the classroom. And at that point, literacy had always been something that I loved myself and thought about maybe teaching. So I decided to go back to school and I spent the four years before she went to school working on my masters, one class at a time. When my youngest child got to first grade and was in school full time and well established, then I felt more comfortable going back to work. So for me it was a personal choice. It was definitely influenced by finances, but I was fortunate enough to be able to make that choice. For many women and men alike, that choice, isn’t even possible because of financial reasons. So, I considered myself very lucky to be able to make that choice, but it was ultimately a personal choice.

NA:     Why did you choose to quit your job instead of quitting his job?

TA:      Well, as I said, he had gotten a promotion right after our first child was born and therefore, he was able to make an increase in salary, which happened several times over the next five years. Whereas as a teacher, I would say there have been stretches of five years where we haven’t even seen a small increase in pay, so it would not have been financially possible for him to have stayed home with the child and my, my teaching alone to have supported our family. He was able to create enough income that we could live as a family of three, then four, then ultimately five on one income, whereas that would not have been possible for me. Also, he had the advantage of having been in the military at one point, so he was able to do reserves, which supplemented the income as well. I just felt like there was more opportunities for him at that time.

NA:     Okay. Now that you have gone back to work, can you explain any differences you see between gender in the schools that you work in?

TA:      Well, I know I’ve already talked about how I definitely see more male presence in the elementary school,, which is positive. But one thing that I did notice recently is as a reading specialist, I attend many, many trainings that happen, professional development of all sorts that happened within my building and countywide. And one thing that I have noticed is that oftentimes the presenter will refer to the room full of teachers as women. Okay ladies, let’s get back to work. Okay. And every once in a while don’t catch themselves and say, Oh, and gentlemen too, because maybe there’ll be one in the crowd or two in the crowd. And I always felt that that was kind of interesting because I wondered how they felt about that being sort of the, lesser of the species in that particular situation, I guess. So I wondered if that bothered them, if they just, you know, if that just rolls off them that they’re used to that, if that’s how they see it or if they’re in fact, just so proud to be able to be that male figure for students, which I do think is so vital, especially at the elementary school level. I also notice that oftentimes when we’re looking for students with our, we have a team at our school that’s called the problem solution team. And we, we sit down together sometimes when a kid is struggling, either academically or behaviorally, and we brainstorm ideas of how we can help this student. And oftentimes it’s to find them a peer mentor that they can look up to and so forth. And so sometimes we’ll even reach out to our high schools and try to get some of the older male students to come on over and just play basketball with the kids for a little while or help them with their homework or mentor them in some way because there’s such a desperate need for small children to have positive male influences in their life. And, so that’s another thing that I’ve noticed is that we do make more of an effort to do some of that as, as opposed to when I started my career I didn’t, I did not see much of that.

NA:     To get a male’s perspective on the topic, gender differences and the educational profession. I am now going to interview my dad about his experiences trying to become a teacher. You grew up in the 80s while you were going to school. Do you remember having many male teachers or was it mostly female teachers when you were in elementary school and high school?

JA:      Yes. I had one male teacher through seventh grade and then after that I had five for a total of six male teachers.

NA:     Okay. So you went to college at Suny New Paltz University and New York. When did you graduate college and what was your major and minor?

JA:      I graduated college in 1991. I was in elementary education as well and a math minor.

NA:     When did you decide you wanted to major in education and then later become a teacher?

JA:      I decided in my junior year that I was interested in teaching. I’ve always been part of sports, captains, leaders, and I felt like this was a good parallel for a profession.

NA:     What do you remember about the number of males and your education classes during college?

JA:      Honestly, there were not a lot of males in the education classes. I was one of a few.

NA:     Since you were a male, in a more female centered major, did you ever feel out of place in your education classes while in college?

JA:      Despite being in the minority, I never felt out of place.

NA:     After college you applied to become an elementary school teacher. I know your experience was different from Tracy’s experience. Can you tell me about your experience applying to work as a teacher and if you did get any interviews or jobs from this?

JA:      I submitted lots of resumes and applications that summer after school and I was able to get one interview and unfortunately, through that one interview I did not get the job.

NA:     Since you did not get this job and you only got one air view, do you think your gender played any role in this?

JA:      I don’t think my gender played a role. I think the lack of experience at a very youthful look, was, the detriment for trying to get a new job.

NA:     Your answer was very different from what Tracey thought played a role in getting a job. Do you think that there was anything that could have made you guys feel differently about this?

JA:      So, a couple reasons for maybe why my job experience or trying to get a job the first time it was school is different than Tracey’s was. One I was, I went to school in New York. It was trying to get a job primarily in Virginia, so maybe that played a factor. People unfamiliar with the school that I went to. Also, I was, uh, a guy, maybe that had a factor in terms of what, what folks were trying to hire back then in terms of the right gender for the role that they were hiring for and then I was also very, very young looking. And, which probably the biggest reason why I didn’t get a job offer was, you know, how useful I looked and, you know, how, how does that represent the school in terms of parents and, while, I might’ve been great with kids, but there’s other factors of the job, that are required to be successful. And I’m interacting with parents and perceived as a good thing as you, as youthful as I looked.

NA:     What did you choose to do after you did not get hired as a teacher? Why did you choose to do this?

JA:      So, after I was not hired that summer, I decided to go in the Marine Corps to, get some immediate experience as a leader in and then into the corporate world after that.

NA:     When you went into the military, what was your ranking?

JA:      So, when I went in the Marine Corps, all marine officers start as a second week tenant and my role in the Marine Corps was a finance officer and over the next couple of years I was promoted from secondly tenant, the first lieutenant and subsequently to captain before I got out of the Marine Corps.

NA:     Did you work with many females while you were in the military?

JA:      So, in the role that I had, it was a support role and so at the time, different than it is now, many, most of the women were placed in the Marine Corps in support roles, not in front line infantry or flight roles like pilots. But that was changed now. But when I was in the Marine Corps, I had a finance division and, the role was, the roles were probably 50, 50, in terms of men and women. And then when I was about to leave the Marine Corp, I was also when supply role and again, being in a support role, it was also a dominated, not dominated with, you know, 50, 50 men and women in, in that role.

NA:     Okay. When you left the, you started working at capital one, what was your job when you first started working there?

JA:      So, when I first joined capital one, I was in a call center. It was a customer service sales call center and that call center, also in the, customer service environment, there were lots of women that worked in customer service at the time when I joined capital one.

NA:     Okay. Did you work with many females when you first started working at capital one?

JA:      Well, I guess that I did have quite a few women, both in the call center representative roles as well as many of the leadership roles. Were also, filled by many women. I was actually the minority in terms of the role I started at capital one as far as being a man and relative to my peers.

NA:     Since working at capital one, you’ve worked with many different teams. Can you tell me about your current team and are there many females that make up your team?

JA:      So, my current team, it’s a team of six right now as a project team. And of the six, I’m the only male on the team. But the, the women that we have on the teams you know, a variety of, a sense of experiences, that has helped them get to where they were at this point in their careers.

5. During my interview I found it difficult to find questions that prompted my parents to talk a lot about this topic. After the interview I asked them why they did not elaborate as much as they usually do when they talk about the past. Both of them admitted that talking about gender was not what they like to talk about, so they had less to say. I thought that having both a male and female perspective in my interview was helpful because it shows the contrast between the genders in college and the work place.

Work Cited

“Data About Men Teachers.” Data About Men Teachers | MenTeach – Recruiting Male Teachers for Education, www.menteach.org/resources/data_about_men_teachers.

“The Gender Gap in College Enrollment and Graduation.” Population Reference Bureau, www.prb.org/gender-gap-in-education/.

“The NCES Fast Facts Tool Provides Quick Answers to Many Education Questions (National Center for Education Statistics).” National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) Home Page, a Part of the U.S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics, nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=28.