HIST 150: INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
Spring Semester 2016
Jessica Kelly
Military, 9/11, Social Change
a. My interview was conducted in person at my home on March 14th Raymond Anderson was a very clear speaker so fortunately I did not have to edit the interview at all. The interview was conducted in my basement because it is the quietest place in my house. The technology I used was very basic, I simply used garage band on my MacBook to record the interview using the microphone in the computer. I gave the questions to Raymond Anderson prior to the interview so he would be prepared and not taken by surprise by any questions I asked.
b. Raymond Anderson was born on August 8th, 1964 in Queens NY. He attended high school in Queens, and two years at John Jay Criminal justice School before being recruited to the NYPD. After spending 15 years there and being promoted to detective, he got his firefighters certification in 1999. After 9/11 he has worked multiple jobs including a military advisor and intelligence analyst and is now living in Northwestern VA.
c. The era of 9/11 is hard to pin point, to be more accurate there is pre 9/11 and post (which we are currently still in.) Prior to 9/11 America thought they were invincible. There weren’t metal detectors in every court house, bags weren’t being checked before a Taylor Swift concert, Box cutters weren’t considered weapons and when you heard a loud bang noise the first thought that crossed your mind was not bomb. Why? Because the last time the US was attacked on its own soil was pearl Harbor (Jason Villemez). After 9/11 we face a much stricter, scared, society that we are currently in today. (Villemez, Jason. “9/11 to Now: Ways We Have Changed.” PBS. PBS, 14 Sept. 2011. Web. 24 Feb. 2016.)
d.
JK: Hello my name is Jessica Kelly and today I will be interviewing on the topic of 9/11. Please explain where you were on the morning of September 11, 2001
Raymond Anderson: On September 11th I was employed as a firefighter with the New York City fire department, and I was originally suppose to work that day however I had someone cover my shift because I had to take my son to the orthodontist. So I got up that morning, took him to the orthodontist and dropped him off at school after. I then went back to my house and was watching ESPN and had no idea what was going on until the TV cut into the events that were happening and by that time the first tower had already been struck. And then I got a phone call from the fire department saying I was mobilized so I responded from there. I drove in from Long Island to Queens as close as I can get because they shut the bridge down to vehicle traffic and stuff like that so that’s why I was I was at the orthodontist my son and then respond later in the day.
JK: How do you feel the morning of when you found out/arrived on site, what was the energy like at the scene?
Raymond Anderson: I didn’t actually get to the site until about four-ish in the afternoon a little bit right before building #7 came down so what happened was were all directed to report to Shea stadium and mobilized to the towers from there. From Shea we took about 20 trucks to get out to the towers so by the time all that happened it was about four in the afternoon until I actually got there and literally within 10 minutes we watch building #7 collapse. Um the, the scene was really unlike anything I’ve ever seen before as a firefighter, I was a member of the NYPD also so I’ve gone to a lot of scenes as a first responder, numerous emergencies but this was by far the most unbelievable chaotic scene I’ve ever seen or been apart of. The energy was very very high but very chaotic, it was very disorganized a lot of emotion a lot of raw emotion people screaming, people crying, their were fist fights going on The full spectrum of any emotion possible for an event like that.
JK: When the first plane hit the tower did you think that it was an accident, the call that you would be responding too? Or an act of terrorism?
Raymond Anderson: Well I actually didn’t see the first plane hit until as I got home I was watching ESPN when they broke the news coverage so I saw that and then they broke it and said that the second plane had hit. Initially first plane I thought of that that’s really bad like how did the pilot so tragically go off course and I knew that before that my guys would be going there, and then after seeing the second plane hit there was no doubt in my mind or any persons mind that there was an attack of terrorism so very quickly went from thinking about how to respond to a very catastrophic accident involving a domestic airplane to an act of terrorism unlike anything we’ve ever seen or expected or been trained to deal with before. So the range of emotions changed pretty quickly.
JK: Did any anyone person take control and give directions at the scene or was it a joint collaboration of everyone?
Raymond Anderson: I can only tell you from when I got down there and Um there was no command or control, um what the bad part or the reason why there was a lack of it was that or leaders from Deputy commissioner down to Chief were all caught in the rubble of the first two towers collapsing all of our leaders were either dead or unaccounted for So we had no leadership. On like a senior executive leadership you basically had 3rd and 4th line managers having to make decisions on the scene, which had never been trained or prepared to deal with before. Um it was very chaotic there was no communications um you know when you are dealing with a response to a situation like this, a large scale mass casualty. Particular in an urban area like New York the only thing that makes works if there’s continuity of efforts and communication with your various agencies your police department, your fire department your emergency response department, your ambulances, there was none of that. It was complete anarchy. There was no body in charge for probably at a good three days before anybody really held what you would call like a brief like “okay this is what we’re going to do, this is why we are going to do it” um and there were a lot of issues that came from that because what was happening was you had pockets of individuals: firefighters, police officers, Emergency medical technicians, welders, that were just freelancing on their own at various points on this massive pile that was like 4 by 4 [city] blocks long. So there was no command or control. And that was one of the big issues, um, afterwards because whenever an incident happens the senior leadership will look back and see “okay what did we do wrong, what did we do right, what could we do better,” and that was one of the key findings from the after action review was the lack of continuity of command and the lack of the ability to instill a command stricter as quickly as possible.
JK: Why is it, do you think, that it took an act of terrorism to bring our country together?
Raymond Anderson: Well I think for my generation when 9/11 happened we had never had an experience like that. We had no experience in any type of warfare like our grandparents, our grandparents fought in WW2. Basically all we had was like Grenada under president Reagan and that was like 18 hours and nothing happened so we were very much living off of the comfort and freedoms that were provided by our four fathers, our grandparents so we didn’t have to deal with anything like that. Um, so I think with that level there was a level of complacency where people just accept it we know its good we don’t have to worry about anything like that and this was a real eye opener for my generation particularly. I mean to have this happen, you know in the center of our city in such a dramatic way, The feeling of unity you know when I was down working on the pile, we had a lot of non uniformed personal that were working with us, iron workers, construction workers stuff like that that were working with us and it was basically like team American, USA, go go go, it was invigorating. And then afterwards at all your sporting events you know the World Series happened after that, the level of patriotism was off the charts. It was great! It felt really good. There was no race, there was no nothing, and we were really just all Americans trying to work together trying to lift each other up, trying to get through this situation that was placed on our laps.
JK: How has working on the ruins effected your health long term?
Raymond Anderson: Well I’ve been very fortunate, as you know I’ve had no long term effects. I go every couple years and have I have a medical that is issued by the fire department city of new york and its monitored by the federal government um, OSHA which is occupational safety hazards [association]. But that is not necessarily the case, there was a lot of guys that I have worked with that have died from various cancers that have developed in regards to responding there, there have been police officers that have died also, construction workers, some of the non uniformed personal like I mentioned who helped out, out of the goodness of their will, goodness of their heart, have developed a wide verity of cancers. And to be honest with you a lot of the people who responded there are almost, well they are kind of like test subjects because nobody had ever really been exposed to that level or that combination, of different toxins mixed together at one time where they had such a dramatic direct inhalation I mean the first three months it was almost like a snowstorm of all the dust and the fibers and we were all breathing that in and we really had no masks. We had like little painters masks that you get at home depot, which had brought truck loads of equipment to the site, and you know every four or five hours your eyes would just crust shut from the flakes just building on it. We had doctors there that would like wash our eyes out and stuff. In retrospect that’s a direct inhalation of all these, now we know toxins being inhaled into your system. So I have been very fortunate, not every body has and sadly there’s going to be more people that have some pretty serious long term effects from that, again we were never trained to deal with anything like this. No one had ever dealt with anything like this previously in terms of first responder capacity. Usually you respond to some sort of like a train will overturn a specific toxin on it so everyone knows “this is the danger of it, this is how you prepare for it.” This was everything mixed together and no body knew the impact it would have or what the effects would be. So actually a lot of us, the people who responded we were very much providing case study information for doctors on how to treat these previously unknown conditions that develop as a result of that.
JK: How do you feel about the freedom tower? Do you feel that it is unsafe, and when you go back to the tower what kind of emotions does it evoke?
Raymond Anderson: Well I haven’t been back to the site directly yet, I have driven by going back up to New York I still have family up there and stuff. I’m ambivalent; on one hand I thought that it was very important that we rebuild it immediately and build it bigger to show that we cannot be defeated as a country. But on the other hand my police background is saying how safe can it really be? And we’ve seen now since 9/11 as the war on terror has expanded and how the terrorists have shown themselves to be very adaptive, very resourceful, and that’s what their end state is. They are looking to achieve that unpredictability and that’s the terror aspect of it. You are not safe no matter what you do. So I guess ambivalent would be the best way? I think its great they had to do it. But I’m actually kind of glad that I don’t have to work there to be honest with you because it is still a target, you know, New York stock exchange all those areas. You know as this war on terror still keeps going on that’s all you hear about is these major city areas are very symbolic targets and stuff like that. I think we’ve learned allot. I have gone down to the firehouse across from where the freedom tower is engine 10 and ladder 10 a couple of times during the pre construction phase and that’s very hard its emotional. You know having been down there seeing it at the worst like that day to basically walk on a pile of rubble and now you go back there and its like a quiet, you knew holistic wishing well and its quiet and its tranquil it’s a little dramatic and you know I’ll get back there one day right now I don’t know if I am ready for it or not. I don’t know how to respond. I’ve spoken to people who have gone back after and they said it was hard, it was really hard. They didn’t know what to expect. A lot of guys are really into going to the museum across and doing their audio taped testimonies like kind of what we are doing here now, for their families and for future, and for the historical documentation of that and that’s something I want to do. But it’s hard even now on the anniversary just to watch when they read off the names there. You know and you hear the names of the guys that you worked with, I had guys that I went to high school with, I had guys that I was cops with you know its hard its emotional so I guess ambivalent would be the best way to say it.
JK: How do you think 9/11 will be remembered 50 years from now?
Raymond Anderson: Let’s see that would be 2051, well hopefully ill still be around! And somebody like you will ask me questions about it and allow me the time to speak. I think for me when I was going through school like middle school, high school, college, we always heard about Pearl Harbor and we saw the pictures and we saw the stuff, but yet it was kind of surreal to us because we didn’t experience it. I think in many ways your generation and stuff since you guys were so young you’ll still have remembrance of it, but I think the guys the people after you that really don’t have a connection or memory it’s going to kind of be like their pearl harbor. For example like here okay, here’s this holiday, a lot of people died, it’s really important for our country but at the end of the day they really don’t know anybody that went through it, you know their parents may tell them about it and a lot of it I think is regionally based. Unless you were in New York or in Washington near the pentagon or in Pennsylvania where the plane crashed. You know you really don’t have a direct impact of it, and that’s not to say your memory of it is right wrong or different [in a bad way] it’s just different. New York was dramatically effected by 9/11, you know DC the people at the pentagon dramatically effected so you got people in Maryland and Virginia who had family members that were working in the pentagon so they have a first hand experience dealing with it. You know so now if we go back to World War 2 during pearl harbor if we were living here in Virginia, yeah pearl harbor was still significant but it really didn’t impact us but if we were in Hawaii and we had family members who were there and impacted by it obviously we’d be, it would have effected us more dramatically and we would remember it more and more deeply. So I think Pearl Harbor would be the best analogy of how it is going to be remembered.
JK: Last question, what are some positive and negative changes you have seen as a result of 9/11?
Raymond Anderson: Well there have been a lot of changes, Um on the negative side I would think, I could say off the top of my head as somebody who was flying frequently for a period of time. The advent of the TSA and “take your shoes off” and all that stuff which really at the end of the day does not deter the actual terrorism as much as they say it does, um its actually pretty annoying for people who have flown. So for the level of impact that it has I find that to be one of the negatives of it. Additionally one of the negatives I find personally is, right after 9/11 they passed the patriot act which gave the government a lot of authority in terms of collections in communications both within the US and abroad and initially when it came out it sounded really good but sometimes when you give government a power they tend to abuse it and weather it is the government of the police department or any agency when they have a new found authority they find ways to abuse it and manipulate it, and I think the patriot act has been dramatically abused. I mean the level of surveillance and collection that we have on our iPhones and stuff now by the government under the guise or what I think are the guise of counter terrorism, is really, um it’s a challenge to our constitutional civil liberties and they’re just making major issues with that an I am one of the people that think that you know, I think that’s a problem. They really have not thwarted that many terrorist attacks by downloading all our Gmail accounts. So I have an issue with that, I think that’s a negative, positively. I think people are a lot more awakened and in tuned to the threat that terrorism poses to us and radical Islam and the threat that’s posed not just to us but to people all over the world. Now previously most Americans we would go over seas to Europe, and everything and we would just think its, everything is good. Now people are aware like, hey listen if you go to Europe and you’re in certain areas, you know they’ve seen these attacks happen and you kind of have to pay attention now so that’s a good and a bad. I think it’s good because people are more aware, I think it’s a bad because obviously this kind of infringes on your travel planning and when you’re going. I think its been good with the level of cooperation between our country and some of our, what we call our coalition partners. Which were kind of you know, not as good as they could have been have been short of dramatically and we have relationships with countries much stronger now then we ever would have. Particularly a lot of Muslim countries where, we kind of really just didn’t really have so much to do with them but you know they have the same issues we have with radical Islam and they are just as anxious as we are to address it so these relationships, you know which were previously kind of just like on the back burner have taken prominence and that’s good because that allows us as Americans to see you know Muslims that are not terrorist, and that are not jihadist, and realize like we have that commonality together and they are just as threatened and angered by it. Where as before 9/11, I didn’t really know any Muslim or Arabic people other then if I was driving by a mosque or if there was someone driving a cab you know; now I know a significant amount of Muslim people. You know and I’ve had dealings with them and I’ve had the opportunity to learn their cultures, so, and a lot of people had that same experience. I think it made us as a country look at like why did this happen, and just kind of like look into it and see what is it about this culture and where these people came from.
JK: Okay, well thank you so much for allowing me to conduct this interview today.
Raymond Anderson: My pleasure.
- My interview with Raymond Anderson went extremely well. If I had to do the interview over I would have asked him to go further into detail about the site on the day of 9/11 because I found it very interesting hearing about it from his point of view, and he only talked about it very broadly. Mr. Anderson did get off topic at times but always brought it back to the question that was asked to link his points together. Although, when he did get off topic he brought up very interesting points and comparing the events of 9/11 to past history events which ended up making it more understandable. I could tell he had prepared for the interview because of how well his answers flowed and how put together the interview came out.
Citation Information:
Raymond Anderson Interview, History 150 Spring 2016, Conducted by Jessica Kelly, Military and terrorism, March 14th 2016