Interview with Rich Dubi, History 150 Spring 2024, Conducted by Ashley Dubi, March 19, 2024.

 

Overview to Interview:

The last thirty years have witnessed a substantial transformation in the legal profession, driven by improvements in technology, globalization, and societal shifts. The growth of digital technology and the internet has completely changed the practice of law, with virtual courts and online tools for research becoming standard. Due to the increased opportunities that globalization has brought forth for lawyers, proficiency in international law and transactions across borders is now required. The legal profession is experiencing an increase in efforts to encourage diversity and inclusion, which has resulted in a rise in the representation of minorities and the promotion of social justice causes. The field of law has undergone changes as well, with a focus on multidisciplinary methods and instruction in practical skills. Lawyers have been essential for advocating changes to the law, expanding human rights, and maintaining the values of justice and equality in a legal system that is changing quickly.

Rich is a qualified attorney with thirty years of experience. During our interview, we discuss his path as a male lawyer and the changing gender roles in the legal industry. Rich, who runs his own legal practice, offers his perspectives on how to deal with changing social norms and how the COVID-19 pandemic has affected his job. Rich speaks candidly about his early days in the legal profession, stressing the difficulties he encountered and the tenacity that kept him going. Using his own experiences to highlight these changes, he effectively depicts the evolving perspectives of male lawyers over time. His insights make it easier to comprehend the relationship between individual experiences and more general social shifts in the legal field. His open observations provide insightful viewpoints on the resilience and adaptability needed to prosper in a world that continues to evolve quickly. Rich’s experiences offer as an understanding into the past as well as a source of inspiration for the foreseeable future of law as we continue to navigate challenging circumstances.

 

Biography

This is an interview of Rich Dubi who has been a lawyer for about 30 years, conducted by his daughter, Ashley Dubi. He is 64 years old, born in 1959. Rich is a husband to my mother Karen, and a father to three- Ashley (me), Adam, and Olivia. His parents are originally from Russia and the Middle East, however, he has lived in New York his whole life, specifically Long Island ever since having children. He has seen and experience a tremendous amount of growth and change in the world regarding generations, technology, norms, pandemics, etc. During our interview, I ask him about his experience through the change in times and advancement in technology, specifically what changed during the covid pandemic. I also question him about how his career started, how it took off, how he became his own boss and created his own law firm, and what his experience in accounting before being a lawyer was like. Additionally, I ask him to give me his insight on social change and if gender plays a role in this field of work or not- specifically whether he thinks there is a noticeable difference between how many men versus women work in this field. Rich is a very wise and intelligent man, and I learn so much from him being my father.

Ashley Dubi 0:02
Welcome, everyone. My name is Ashley Dubi, and I’m a student at James Madison University. Today I have the pleasure of speaking with my father, Rich Dubi, who’s an attorney, and I am excited to ask him questions that I’ve actually never asked him before. Before we start, I want to briefly give an overview of Rich on a personal and a professional level. Rich is a personal injury lawyer who owns his own law firm, he’s a retired CPA, and he serves as trial counsel to a number of law firms. But most importantly, he’s my dad. But for this interview, I’m going to call you Rich, is that okay?

Rich Dubi 0:35
Sure. That’s fine, Ashley.

Ashley Dubi 0:37
Okay, Rich, I’m so glad to have you here and I hope you all enjoy this conversation. So Rich, a lot of college students, they don’t know the path that they want to take and, like myself, they struggle with picking majors and knowing exactly what trajectory they want to take in life. How did you know that you wanted to be a lawyer?

Rich Dubi 0:58
Well, that’s a great question. I always was interested in law. When I was a kid, if I saw a TV shows or movies, I thought that the lawyers were, you know, just always portrayed as very sophisticated and powerful and intelligent and I was always drawn to that. But then when I entered college, I didn’t know which direction to go. I was actually a theater major, I thought I might try to acting and, and I studied economics, so I was all over the place. Until I had a sports injury. I was playing roller hockey, and I collided with another player, and he fell on me and I broke my ankle. When I was in the hospital with a cast, my father who had his own accounting practice and I sat down and we had a heart to heart, and he said, you know, maybe you should take a look at accounting, I have a, you know, nice practice you could step into, and, you know, I think you would really like it. So I decided to switch majors that require transferring colleges, the school I was at, didn’t have accounting. So I transferred to a different school, I went from Stony Brook to Adelphi university, to the School of Business, and I learned accounting. But it really wasn’t, it really wasn’t, you know, my heart wasn’t in it. And that was, you know, one thing I just couldn’t avoid. So I went into practice with my father, I took the CPA exam, and I became a Certified Public Accountant, and I practiced accounting for about seven years. And I just was not fulfilled. And I sat down with my father and I said, you know, I had always considered law school, I wanted to go to law school. And had I not been sidetracked into accounting, I would have been an attorney by now and it’s really my calling. And my father said, look Rich, this is your life to live and go for it, I support you any way I can. So in my late 20s, I was 27. I had to retake the LSAT, the Law School Admission Test, and I was still working with him in accounting. So I went to a local law school. And I nose to the grindstone, I just locked in and became an attorney on my 30th birthday. So I turned 30. And I was just starting a career. So that was something that you just have to stay committed. Was not the timeline I originally expected, but that’s where I ended up. So I just have been working steadily ever since.

Ashley Dubi 3:32
Oh, that’s a great story to hear and it’s insightful to see how it’s very relatable to start somewhere and not know your exact path and to be able to go in a bunch of different directions and then finally figure it out when it comes to terms that it wasn’t working in the first place where you started, and it’s great to know that your father didn’t have any hard feelings, and he was understanding and your relationship wasn’t affected with him.

Rich Dubi 4:02
No, in fact, our relationship got even closer because we we collaborated professionally, and he had a lot of respect for me that I was able to pivot and change directions and follow my heart, and he was very, very loving and supportive in that so well. We grew very close.

Ashley Dubi 4:23
Yeah that’s great to hear. I mean, it’s hard to think that you’re ever going to disappoint your parents or your family and knowing that he was so supportive is probably such a great feeling and helped you be successful in where you are now.

Rich Dubi 4:37
Yes, absolutely.

Ashley Dubi 4:39
So I’m curious to know what the LSAT was like then when you took it versus if you know what it’s like now how much it’s changed.

Rich Dubi 4:47
Well, at the time when I took it, it really was more of like brain teaser, they were quizzes, they were just not the normal type of q&a that you were accustomed to in school. I don’t know how it changed over the years, I think it’s probably still consistent. But, I can say having gone through it, it bears no indication on one’s ability to practice law. Some people are very good test takers with standardized tests and others struggle with it. To me, it has absolutely no real relevance, I would be fine if they abolished it. I just don’t think it’s diagnostic of anything, frankly.

Ashley Dubi 5:29
I agree. I mean, I think that taking standardized tests isn’t very indicative of much skill set, it’s it’s definitely a challenging exam to have to go through it for anyone.

Rich Dubi 5:44
It does train you because it’s a stressful environment. You know, most kids take a review course, and then they cram for it, and they walk out saying, oh, my God, I did terribly on it. And then they think they could do better, you know, but ultimately, you know, there’s a curve and there’s averages and some fall below some fall above. But, the good thing with law, is there are law schools for almost every type of LSAT grade, whatever your grade point averages in college, and your LSAT, there’s certain criteria, so there’s some safe schools, some harder schools to get into. But, if you really want to become an attorney, there’s a law school for you, and at the end of the day, it’s all the same textbooks, and you know, each state is the same bar exam no matter which law school you go to. So if you really want to be a lawyer, don’t get hung up on the LSAT, just lock in and follow your gut.

Ashley Dubi 6:37
Yeah, that’s a very valuable lesson to hear. Did you like the school that you went to? Which school did you go to for law school?

Rich Dubi 6:44
I went to a small school in Long Island called Toro law school because I was living in Long Island at the time, and I was working for my father part time in accounting, so I didn’t have the luxury to go travel out of state. But, what I liked about the small law school, were the people that I met. I have met lifelong friends, my law school colleagues, and we have all gone on to be, for the most part, have had illustrious careers. Some of my colleagues have become judges, some of them have built major law firms, some of them have become superstars in other law firms, some, like myself went out on their own and we, you know, we confer all the time. It’s just a very collegial feeling- we’re like old army buddies. So that’s a very nice benefit to being in a small school.

Ashley Dubi 7:35
Yeah that’s great. And I’m gonna piggyback off of that, and going in the different directions that your that your colleagues went in, can you tell me what fields you study besides personal injury?

Rich Dubi 7:44
So in my practice, I do plaintiff’s personal injury. That’s, you know, representing injured people. And just for the listeners, the scope of personal injury is rather broad. It’s not just car accidents, it could be, you know, an accident with the truck or a motorcycle, there could be multi vehicle accidents. But, there’s also a whole array of professional malpractice, medical, “mal”, dental, “mal”, accounting “mal”, legal “mal”, engineering, architecture, any profession with a license, are held to certain professional standards, and if they make mistakes, that gives rise to negligence claims. There’s also trip and fall or slip and fall, there’s fallen objects, some people can walk in Costco or Home Depot and a box can become dislodged and fall, I’ve handled many cases like that. And then there’s construction site cases where workers fall off a scaffold or down an elevator shaft, anything with gravity involved, and those are major cases in construction. But, if people get hurt on the job that falls under the heading of Workers Compensation, [When insurance provides the injured person with cash benefits or medical care.] but I come in on third party claims. So, if a lady walks into an office building and trips on a rubber mat, there may be an outside maintenance company who’s responsible for the care of that mat. And if they were negligent, [failing to take proper precaution.] then we can bring a claim against that maintenance company. So that’s a personal injury. But, I also do transactions, buying and selling of real estate, buying and selling the businesses, there’s a niche area with contested estates, where if there’s a will or a trust, I represent both sides, either the proponent of the instrument, or objectants of the instrument. So that’s known as contested estates. And then commercial litigation, lastly, company A suing company B with business disputes. So, it’s a it’s a robust practice but, the big emphasis is plaintiff’s personal injury and I’m a trial attorney so that all the defense firms know me and the insurance carriers know me and they know if I’m on the case, I’m capable of going all the way to trial to take a verdict, [final decision made by the judge at the end of the trial] rather than just looking to settle the case early. So being a trial attorney has a little cachet in that field.

Ashley Dubi 10:12
That’s great! Thank you for giving me that detailed explanation of the other fields that you study. Now, I’m curious to know how you feel that your field of study over the past about 30 years has changed. Have you noticed any huge social divide or change or gender inequality in this field?

Rich Dubi 10:32
Well, definitely When I started, I’ve been practicing 34 years, it was definitely more of an old boys club. It was more of a man’s world, especially in court. Very rarely did you see a woman attorney. And if you did, people would be on edge. [inaudible] She’s got an attitude, she’s a little bitchy, she’s aggressive… whereas now that’s really not fair, because she’s as licensed and credentialed as any of us. Now, I think it’s probably still a little more males in the court, but probably maybe 55%-45%. But, I have tried cases against some phenomenal, phenomenal women attorney, and I would take them any day of the week, over a lot of them an attorney. So, I think attitudes have certainly changed, where now it’s much more of a level playing field for women. And I have women attorneys in my firm, and women paralegals, and the pay rate is the same whether they’re men or their women. It’s just based on their skill set.

Ashley Dubi 11:45
Yeah, I was curious to know what you felt about that, because I have done some research on this topic, and I have noticed that over the course of several years, it has become more of an equal playing field, but there has definitely been a social gender divide in this field. So I was wanting to know what you thought about it.

Rich Dubi 12:05
I think it’s a long time coming. But now, you know, at least in my mind’s eye, there’s equality there. And it should be merit based. So I’m happy to see, you know, I’m happy to see energetic, ambitious attourneys, men or women

Ashley Dubi 12:20
Yeah, I completely agree with that. And going along with that, do you think that technology has played a huge role in how law has changed over the years?

Rich Dubi 12:31
Without question. When I was in law school, we used to have to manually look up research cases in books, and there was indexes, and we had to shepardize them, which was a method to see if they were still current, or if the case was subsequently overturned on appeal. We may be relying on a case, [Example:] Smith versus Jones- Smith won, and we think, oh, that’s the law, and if we didn’t do our homework, we didn’t realize that Jones took an appeal, and the appellate court reversed that and Jones won. So if you don’t stay current, well, now with the internet, and with services, like Westlaw, you can push a button, and it will give you the immediate research like a search engine, and it’ll tell you what the current state of the law is if it’s ever been reversed. So the technology has really facilitated the practice of law in great ways. We can do more research and put together better quality papers and memorandums for the court. So the technology has just been incredible.

Ashley Dubi 13:38
Yeah, I can’t even imagine what it would have been like living in that type of environment with no technology as someone who was born in this generation, and has only had tremendous technology. So that kind of leads to my next question- the COVID pandemic, which was only a couple of years ago, that had a huge effect on so many people in the world, some negative some positive. And I would like to know how it affected your practice.

Rich Dubi 14:07
Well, COVID, affected all of us greatly. I mean, at that time, in March of 2020, when it began, there was so much uncertainty, the world was coming to an end. The courts were closed, cases ground to a halt. In my business as a plaintiff’s personal injury attorney, we take these cases on a contingency, meaning we don’t get paid until the case is ultimately resolved, either by a settlement or by a verdict. And if I litigate a case and I lose, I don’t get paid. So that’s always the the financial risk taking a case on a contingency. Well, when the pandemic hit, all the courts were closed, all of my cases ground to a halt. So it adversely affected the cash flow, and it was extremely stressful. But, then, an unintended consequences happened with the advent of zoom, where people were now video conferencing, so the courts started to integrate and utilizing video conferencing to try to move cases along, and for me as a plaintiff’s lawyer, it was it was an absolute benefit because I could conference the case, sitting in my office without having to drive to the different counties where I practice. And I would lose time, an hour, two hours each way driving, sometimes in traffic. Whereas if there was a 10 o’clock conference, I log on to the zoom, at five minutes before 10. I handle the conference. And when it’s over, I’m still in my office. So, the level of productivity increase. And then as cases moved, it turned out that in that regard, COVID really was a bonanza for the plaintiffs bar, not necessarily the defendants bar, because the defendant attorneys bill hourly, so they rather enjoy sitting in traffic and waiting around in court for the calendar to be called, because they’re billing for all that time. Whereas for us plaintiff attorneys, it was a total waste of time, until our case got called. So that became very efficient for us. So that was a big, unintended consequence.

Ashley Dubi 16:25
Seems like you had a lot of positive and negative effects from the COVID pandemic, in regards to the use of technology, I’m sure zoom made a huge difference. And in most people’s law practices. Did you lose any severe cases during that time? Or do you feel like it made you a stronger lawyer and you and you were able to persevere through it?

Rich Dubi 16:47
Well, a little of both. I had some very, very large cases, one in particular, where my client was a pedestrian hit by a car, and he had a fractured spine, and he was doing rehab, and he was in a nursing home. And his disability was going to be permanent in nature, and he had a long life expectancy because he was in his 50s. So he had another 30 years life expectancy. One of the elements of personal injury is the past pain and suffering that’s compensable. But, another is the future pain and suffering. So his future life expectancy was long. So the future claim he was going to be suffering for 30 years, and that part was compensable. Well, when COVID happened, a lot of people who were positive with the Coronavirus were migrated into nursing homes and rehab facilities, and people were exposed to it. My client was exposed to it, and regrettably died. He contracted COVID, and he passed away. He was on a ventilator. And he was one of those statistics that he would not have otherwise been exposed to COVID, and he died. Well, when he died, a tremendous chunk of the value of the case went out the window, because I lost that whole future damages claim, and that’s the way insurance carriers value cases. They actually determine what their exposure is when they do a risk analysis. So that you know, it was morbid for the family, and he was a lovely man, I think of him often. But it was unfortunate that his beneficiaries ended up getting less money because he died, where had he lived, I would have gotten the more money.

Ashley Dubi 18:45
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That’s terrible, I’m sorry to hear that. Well, it seems like you have a lot of experience in this field, and you’ve been doing it for over 30 years. Do you feel like you could give anyone any set of advice who is trying to become a lawyer?

Rich Dubi 19:07
Well, absolutely for anybody who’s listening, if they have an interest in law, they should talk to lawyers, and ask them kind of like you’re asking me, lawyers are very, very gracious in my experiences, especially with younger people. They’ll give you the inside baseball of what it’s like with law. And what I tell people, there’s a difference between the business of law, and the practice of law. In my setting, I own my own law firm, so I have to get the work, I have to service the work, I have to get paid for the work, and once I’m done with the case, I’m unemployed until I find another case. It’s not recurring, it’s a series of onesies. So the business of law is challenging. Whereas the practice of law, I have to look at the case and say, okay, what’s my burden of proof? How am I going to win my case? What do I need to document? How am I going to convince my adversary, who’s a paid professional, on the other side of the table with considerable skills, whose sole purpose is to disrupt and defeat my case. So it’s very challenging. So I have to get past and out-lawyer, the defense attorney, and I have to convince the insurance company to settle the case, and if it goes to trial, I have to convince the jury that I’m right. So it’s a you know, it’s pushing the boulder uphill. So the business of law is very different than the practice of law. For those who are interested, build up a network of people, take note of your classmates and what fields they’re in, and what businesses their families are in, because it’s a connect the dots when you get out of law school, the network grows, especially with social media, people can keep in touch with everyone from all over the place. And when you have a network, you can collaborate, and you can get better exposure to build your practice and just, you know, career advancement. So yeah, it’s exciting, it’s a very exciting time now, with technology. I envy you college kids, it’s very different than in my day.

Ashley Dubi 21:32
Yeah, I bet it is. Well, I mean, for my brother, your son, Adam, he’s, he’s in the process of becoming a lawyer. So I’m sure that it’s very helpful for him to have a mentor like you, who’s a lawyer who he can look after, because you seem to have so much great experience with this. And yeah, that was great information to give to anyone who’s in interested in this field and it was very insightful.

Rich Dubi 21:58
And with this with respect to your brother, I never pushed him for law. He came to me and said, he really wants to become an attorney, which I embraced. He clerked, he worked up in my law firm for two summers, because he showed an interest, and he really developed an aptitude for it. Now, he’s graduating college in a couple of months. And he’s just gotten accepted to a few law schools, and we’re waiting to hear back from some others, so he’s, got some choices. So I’m very, very proud of him, and I’m very optimistic for his career.

Ashley Dubi 22:34
Yeah that’s great, I’m so excited to see where he ends up. Well, I really, really appreciate you sparing me some of your time. You were very inspirational, and I might be biased because you’re my father, but you are a great lawyer, and I really appreciate you answering some of my questions.

Rich Dubi 22:51
Thanks Ashley, it’s very unique to be interviewed by my daughter, but you did a great job. I’m proud of you. Terrific.

Ashley Dubi 22:59
Thank you. All right. Bye, everyone!

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Research

Personal Injury Law: This Forbes article titled “Personal Injury Law: Everything You Need To Know In 2024” provides an overview of the Personal Injury Law field. It covers what personal injury is, what type of legal claims arise, what can be sued, what must be proven to win a case, the potential damage of a claim, and how claims are resolved. With this article, I learned more of generalized description about what this field is really about and what legalities are included. If someone else hurts you, personal injury law outlines your rights and gives you the ability to make legal claims. These lawsuits involve medical negligence, slip and fall accidents, unintentional injuries like auto accidents, etc. You can file a lawsuit against the people or organizations that caused your injury, frequently involving their insurance providers. You must establish the defendant’s liability and the full value of your losses in order to win a case. Pain and suffering, lost pay, and medical expenses may all be included in compensation. Although cases can be resolved out of court, a personal injury attorney can guide you through the procedure and assist you get the largest settlement possible. The information that it provided is congruent with the insight that Rich gave me during this interview about his personal experience with this field of law. He explained what different types of cases he deals with, including many of the ones listed from this article. Rich is a plaintiff attorney, who deals with the injured person in a case. 

Forbes Advisor is dedicated to enabling people to make informed financial decisions by making research and information easily available. Their goal is to provide people with confidence-boosting, unbiased, and useful suggestions  so they can concentrate on what is really important to them. With decades of combined experience in personal finance, the editorial team guarantees thorough coverage in a wide range of financial areas, such as real estate, credit, banking, investment, insurance, and loans. They follow rigorous editorial norms and procedures and base their information on independent research, data analysis, and expert opinions. The editorial staff upholds journalistic independence and integrity while their business team seeks out possible advertising options to fund their reporting.

Covid-19 Pandemic: The article titled “Practicing Law in the Wake of a Pandemic” discusses the impact of the pandemic on attorneys. Despite initial concerns, it turns out that many law firms in fact performed very well financially. Lawyers worked from home, but they were still very busy processing legal matters. There was also a great need for inexpensive or free legal assistance. Lawyers were in great demand because the pandemic exacerbated pre-existing challenges, including as financial difficulties and social justice concerns. It wasn’t all positive news, though; several attorneys who worked from home experienced severe stress or other mental health issues. Law companies are starting to make changes to better accommodate young lawyers who are searching for meaningful and equitable work. Overall, despite the difficult circumstances, there is hope for improvements in the legal world. During this interview, my father Rich explains his experience as a lawyer throughout the duration of the COVID pandemic. Much of this information that I recieved from this article is similar to what Rich experienced. He stated to me that there were some positive effects, and some negative effects that the pandemic had on him and other attorneys. One positive was the ability to work from home. The evolution of technology and the utilization of zoom allowed plaintiff attorneys like my father, to work with their cases and still maintain interpersonal interactions, while abiding by the social distancing regulations. He felt that this time period increased the efficiency in his work days, as he wasted less time driving in traffic to and from work everyday, and instead joined zoom meetings from his at-home office. Similarly to the article, my father also found that the Covid pandemic helped attorneys like him increasingly become successful, and it had more of a positive impact than a negative impact.

Gender Change: The article offers a thorough analysis of the progress made by women in American law schools throughout the previous 100 years, emphasizing significant changes in student enrollment, faculty makeup, and administrative leadership. It shows how the percentage of female law students has increased from just 5% in the early 1900s to a majority of 55% in 2021. These trends are also reflected in the percentage of female teachers and administrators. The study examines a number of aspects of women’s experiences in legal education, including academic accomplishment, admission to law schools, and comparisons to applicant pools, using a unique panel database that dates back to 1948. By means of diligent examination, it reveals past inequalities and ongoing obstacles encountered by female attorneys, providing valuable perspectives on the complex elements impacting the relationship between men and women. During this interview, Rich gave me insight as to what social and gender change he has seen over the years that he has been in this field. As I have noticed, he proved that back when he first started, women were much less credentialed to be in the field of Law. He stated that years ago, women were not trusted, and were considered unequal in comparison to male lawyers. Now, gender plays a different role in the field. Rich explains that he encounters tremendous lawyers, judges, paralegals, etc, who are women, and are considered to be equally as knowledgeable and trusted as the males in the field.

Christy Bieber, J.D. “Personal Injury Law: Everything You Need to Know in 2024.” Forbes, Forbes Magazine, 26 Jan. 2024, www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/personal-injury/personal-injury-law/.

Katz, Elizabeth D, et al. “Women in U.S. Law Schools, 1948–2021.” OUP Academic, Oxford University Press, 21 Aug. 2023, academic.oup.com/jla/article/15/1/48/7246687#416806856.

“Practicing Law in the Wake of a Pandemic.” Harvard Law School, 15 Aug. 2022, hls.harvard.edu/today/practicing-law-in-the-wake-of-a-pandemic/.

 

Process and Technology of Interview: This interview between the host, Ashley Dubi, and the interviewee, Rich Dubi, was conducted via zoom on March 19, 2024. During this zoom, I was located in Harrisonburg, Virgina, while Rich was located in Huntington, New York. The audio file that was recorded was ultimately converted into an MP3 format, and uploaded to my downloads on my laptop. I then used Otter.ai to transcribe the audio recording of the interview, and edited the transcription manually as well.