Interview with Kate Harold, A Mother’s Journey through Social Change in the STEM field, History 150 Spring 2024, Conducted by Grace Wisler, March 24, 2024.

Overview

Before WWII, Social structures set in place made it seem like men were more suited for certain professions, like STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics), and that women were only capable of domestic roles. At the start of WWII, men who traditionally held most of the jobs in the workforce were forced to leave for war, leaving women to fill the vacancies. Figures like Rosie the Riveter were created to recruit women to the workforce and stuck around as a symbol of women’s fight for independence and inclusion in the workforce. The women who took over when the men left played an important role in sustaining the war effort and beginning to reshape society’s ideas of women in the workforce.

Even after much work to increase women’s inclusion in society, they still face discrimination, specifically in the STEM field. Kate, a female mechanical engineer who attended the University of Virginia for engineering and currently owns her own consulting company, has been in the field for over 20 years. Her story shows the challenges many women face when going into the STEM field. Today, while women make up almost half of the U.S., they remain underrepresented in STEM fields, making up only 27% of careers in STEM fields.

Biography

Kate was born in Allentown PA, and grew up with her mother, who was a homemaker, and her father, who was a Mechanical Engineer. Kate went to Emmaus High School in 1991 and later graduated from UVA with a BS in Mechanical Engineering in 1998. The engineering cohort at UVA started with approximately 20% women; and graduated 5% of women with a BSME Bachelor of Science in Mechanical Engineering). She then went to the University of Maryland for her MBA in 2002. She was hired into an engineering Quality role after college because this was viewed as more appropriate for women at the time. In 2004 she became pregnant with her first daughter and decided to leave her job and become a stay-at-home mom. In 2015 she decided to re-enter the workforce and is currently a Self-employed Medical Device Consultant for Quality Engineering & Regulatory Affairs.

Research

Because of gender norms, historically, especially in the Western world, women have faced barriers in fields traditionally dominated by men such as Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics (STEM). In the early 20th century, women rarely worked outside of the home, and only about 20% of women were categorized as Gainful Workers (labor force participation outside of the home), and only 5% of those women were married. If a woman were to choose to work, they commonly left once they became married. Over the years, a better high school education yielded an increasing graduation rate, contributing to an increase in the women’s labor force. Over the coming decades, many increasing changes also influenced the increase of women in the workplace.

With the onset of World War II, there was a demand for labor in industries that were previously held by men who were now fighting in the war.  Many women entered the workforce to replace men at this time. At the end of World War II, when men returned home, women were relegated to lower-paying, less skilled positions. They often faced discrimination and unequal treatment in the workplace. In 1963, After much upheaval, the Equal Pay Act of 1963 was passed, which prohibited employers from discriminating based on sex. Today, women make up around half of the US workforce, but only 27% of STEM careers.

Transcript

Grace 0:01
Hi, are you ready? Sorry. Can you say it one more time? Yes, I’m ready.

All right, the mic wasn’t close. Hi, my name is Grace. And today I’m going to be interviewing my mom, who’s going by the name of Kate, about her experience as a woman in the STEM [Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math] field And her life. So. So my first question is what led you to become a mechanical engineering major at UVA [University of Virginia] to begin with? Was there anything specific that pushed you towards that path?

Kate 0:40

I think mostly I grew up in house, My father is a mechanical engineer. So, I was definitely raised to value math and science and had some interest in those careers. If I’m being honest, I’m not sure I knew 100% what it meant to be an engineer when I decided to apply for that major. I had taken calculus and physics in high school and did well, [and] I had a couple teachers in high school suggested that I might look into majoring in engineering. So that’s what I did. But really, did I fully understand what I was getting myself into? Probably not.

Grace 1:27
That’s funny. I didn’t know that before. so, I know, you mentioned that your father was a mechanical engineer as well. Was he the main person that you looked up to as a mentor? Or was there anyone else specifically? I know, you mentioned your teachers, too. Were any of them? I know, it would have probably been helpful to have a woman as a mentor, do you think that would have helped? Or was there any women in your life that led you on that path?

Kate 1:51
There really weren’t. I mean, I would say my dad was the primary person that was helping me when I was looking at colleges and considering majors. I had a physics teacher in high school, that was also a man, who really, I would say, pushed me. And I had a couple classmates in high school, too, that I took those same kind of STEM classes with, that also ended up going into engineering. So I think in a lot of ways, because I had some friends that were on the same path, it made it seem like something maybe that I could do. But to answer your question, I never knew any female engineers growing up, I didn’t really know any women that worked in any STEM fields that I can think of. And even through college, I don’t think I had any professors that were women at all through four years of engineering school.

Grace 2:54
Wow, that’s crazy to think about, because now a lot of my professors are women. That’s crazy to think, in that small amount of time. I know in our pre interview, you talked about how you felt that being a woman helps you get into UVA. Could you elaborate on why you think that and what made you feel that way?

Kate 3:15
Yeah, I think at the time, because there were so few women that were going into STEM fields, I do think that it was an advantage on my application. So I got into quite a few schools that I might not have otherwise. And we certainly have a lot of conversations around, you know, programs like that, that would, you know, give preference to a gender. For me, I think it helped. And I think at the time, it was probably necessary. And is probably a big reason why we see a lot more women now going into these fields. Because you know, when I look at work now, most of the young engineers I work with are actually women, which is a huge change.

Grace 4:05
That’s really interesting. Do you think it would have helped if you did have a woman mentor?

Kate 4:15
I think so. And really not even so much when I was first you know, considering going into engineering or through college. But when I was early in my career, I think if there had been more women doing, especially the more technical roles within engineering, that would have helped. Some examples, just when I was starting my career, you know, making decisions about, you know, what path I wanted to be on, what kind of jobs I wanted to apply for, what promotions I was seeking. It would certainly have helped to have somebody, you know, a generation older than me that could have helped him We think through, you know what the right next step was, and particularly back then trying to figure out how to like, have a career path in the field, and also plan for wanting to have a family and like how that would work and work life balance and all of those things. I certainly could have used a woman’s perspective on some of that. Now, I did, I did have some great male bosses that really supported me and my career path and would talk about those things, but not quite the same as having somebody that’s lived it.

Grace 5:39
Right. I think if I was going into engineering, I would definitely want someone who was like me to tell me like, what to do where to go. I think I’d be way in over my head, But. [Laughter]

Kate 5:51
I mean, you figure it out. But and I, I had women that were senior to me in, in other roles, like, not necessarily in the technical aspects of the job,

Grace 6:00
Right.

Kate 6:00
but like, there was a QA [Quality Assurance] manager, that was somebody that, you know, supported me for some of those things. But not like what I see the young engineers starting now they have so many people they can go to when they’re making those, you know, career plans.

Grace 6:19
Right, right. In our pre interview you talked about, well, the main point of this interview, pretty much is how you were one of five women in a class of 100, 150 people, pretty much throughout your whole college career, can you describe what that experience was like? Or give [some examples of that].

Kate 6:41
So my class at UVA, I would say, I know, we started with about 20% women in the class, because they made a big deal about it, that it was, like the highest number of women that they had admitted into the engineering class. And what I saw happen after our first year is, so many of that women dropped out and changed majors. And I think there’s a lot of reasons why that was happening at the time, I think, for all of us in STEM fields. And I think you’re seeing this to grace, there’s that kind of weed out period where it’s really hard. And there was something unique about the women in the class that were very used to getting, you know, all A’s, that as soon as they got that first C in a class immediately switched, whereas the men in the class, were able to kind of push through that. So by my second year, within my major, we were down to five women out of I think we graduated 100 in the class.

So on the upside, we had a very tight group of five girls.

Grace 8:01
[right at least you made good friends!]

Kate 8:02
Yeah, we all became best friends, because we needed each other. And, but it was very interesting, just watching trying to think what I was trying to say, but a different approach to to the work. And like it would stand out when we would do labs, like I was always more comfortable if I had a lab and it was something I was uncomfortable with and trying to do for the first time, If I was in a class where like I could team up with the other women versus trying to work through some of those projects with just the guys.

Grace 8:50
I definitely understand that.

Kate 8:51
Yeah, and particularly, I mentioned, I didn’t have any female professors. And by and large, my professors in college were in their 50s-60s at the time.  They really had never experienced teaching women, they didn’t have women colleagues. So there were some of them that really, just kind of didn’t know, know how to take having women in class. I took a class, it was basically learning how to work in the machine shop in the engineering school. And it took me showing up for class several times, like the first three times I showed up, the professor asked me like what I was doing. They’re like, I’m in your class. He thought I was like last year I was coming to deliver his mail or something. Like no, I’m taking the class.

Grace 9:50
Oh my gosh, that has to be hard to go through for your whole four years of college.

Kate 9:56
and then on the other hand, I had professors who were so supportive But it was just it was a major generational change.

Grace 10:07
Wow, that’s interesting. And then after college, you also talked about how the workplace environment might not have been as inviting as it was for men as it was for women, and that your experiences weren’t that great. Could you describe what that was like and how you felt during that time?

Kate 10:29
Yeah, I had several of my first jobs like an internship that I did during college. And I would say, like the first two jobs that I worked out of school, where I was the first woman on a project team. And so there was kind of a culture there, men used to just working with each other. And suddenly having a woman on the team, you know, they were forced to make changes in their work environment, and you know, how they behaved and what was appropriate to talk about and all of those things. And I think the hardest part of that, for me really was, like, being perceived as I was coming in, as forcing them to make all of these changes. So I always felt like as I started a new job, like, they weren’t real happy to have me there right off the bat. And I worked through it. But it’s so different today with how people are trained. And how kind of just the culture in companies is so different than it was back then.

Grace 11:47
That makes sense.

Kate 11:51
Yeah, I had, you know, early on, I applied for a job. And it was on a very technical team and a small group, and they worked really closely together. And I remember the hiring manager said to be straight out, he said, I think you could do the work. But I feel like if I added you to this team, it would be too disruptive to our team’s culture. Like, basically, the guys on the team wouldn’t welcome you. Yeah. And so I definitely ended up, you know, I went into quality engineering, which is, you know, if you were a woman in engineering at the time, that was the path you were most likely to follow, because it was seen as kind of the most appropriate for for women. And it’s still that way, to a certain extent. Whereas really, my interest, like the job I applied to was in the like, shop that was building like robotic machines for manufacturing, it was very, like, technical. And in the manager, like I, you know, he continued to support me, but he was very direct that like, he didn’t think that it would work out because he didn’t think his team would be open to it.

Grace 13:16
That’s crazy to think about now, but I don’t think that would really happen anymore. ,

Kate 13:20
No, I mean, these days, even if a manager was thinking that he would know better [than to say it]. [Laughter] Right? Oh, it really has changed a lot. And it’s so cool to see like, I work with teams of engineers now. And like I said, I think it’s probably 70% women that are on the teams that I’m working with now, which is unbelievable. Like, I’ve never had a peer, female [come out]

Grace 13:57
[Its crazy to think about its] majority women now.

Kate 13:59
Yeah. And I don’t think that it’s that way, you know, across the board in engineering, I think it’s still, you know, pretty heavily male. But I work in like biomedical engineering. And I think that’s, again, if women are going into engineering, they’re much more inclined to be interested in like biomedical than civil engineering, where you’d be working on roads and bridges. And so that’s culture and whether you’re welcome there or not, right.

Grace 14:36
Now, when I was doing my research for this interview, I found that even though there was a huge increase from the 1990s When you were in college and starting your job, there’s still only 27% of STEM careers that are held by women. All of [ the U.S] and all around, which I think is crazy, and we definitely need a few more.

Kate 14:56
We sure do. Grace.

Grace 14:57
Yeah.

Kate 14:58
We need a lot more. [Laughter]

Grace 15:02

You talked about a little bit that you had some struggles when you became pregnant with me at first. Could you describe some of the experiences you felt? And also, what were some of the deciding factors that made you decide to be a stay at home mom after working full time with me, after having me for two years?

Kate 15:23
Yeah, I think I remember feeling very much when I was, you know, in those like, year [or] two, thinking about starting a family, that boy, I wished I had picked a job that was more flexible, that I could do, you know, partially [work] from home, all of those things. It’s, it’s amazing now that I work, fully remote, but you know, back then that wasn’t an option. So the job that I was doing at the time when I got pregnant, you know, required me to be like, in the manufacturing plant, where we were making products like walking around on the floor all day long. I could have done it, some women did, but it would have been tough.

Grace 16:17
[right]

Kate 16:17
I was very fortunate that I had a senior manager in another department that I had been working with, that really valued my work and figured out how to bring me on as a consultant. So I ended up I actually, like, quit my full time job with that company. And then they hired me back as a consultant that I did for two years. And I was able to do that from home. But really, that took like an individual manager going well above and beyond to make that happen for me. You know, in the last like, couple of years before I had you, I had a couple promotion opportunities and was interviewing for jobs. And like, in one instance, the hiring manager, straight up was like, Well, I’d love to hire you. But like, I know, you’re newly married, and you’re probably gonna get pregnant and leave in a couple years.

Grace 17:19
Oh, my gosh, she said [that too you?]

Kate 17:21
That’s right.

Yeah! yeah. And didn’t offer me the job. Right. And so [and he] turned out to be right, because that’s exactly what I did. But, but I did it, because I also felt like, the opportunities weren’t there. So the opportunities that would have been good enough, that would have made me want to continue working while having a new baby, it just wasn’t worth it. So, you know, nowadays, I have, you know, young engineers that I work with, and they, they take their maternity leave, and they come back, you know, part time, and we’re all working remote, so they can kind of work when they need to. And there’s a whole system to support that. And, and also, I see the men taking maternity leave and supporting their families that way. So that’s also I think there’s been a huge change. It’s not just that, you know, we’ve made it easier for women to take time off and come back. But we’ve also made it easier for dads to take time off so that their wives can continue to work.

Grace 18:34
I think that’s amazing. I’m glad that has changed in the [past few years]

Kate 18:38
[its] better. Still not easy, but you know.

Grace 18:43
it’s always balance when you’re having kids, I feel like.

So my last question for this interview is, is there any advice you would offer to women interested in entering the STEM field or engineering or just women entering careers in general?

Kate 19:00
I think my advice for women entering STEM is, you know, as you know, it’s hard. And I think sometimes we as women were trained from when we’re really young, to think that, like, we have to be excellent at something right from the start. Right. So I think for women, a lot of times it’s it’s just stick with it. Right? And for some reason, men seem to be just fine with like, the concept of, you know, failing a little bit and working harder and pushing through and I think we need women, particularly those going into STEM to kind of take that same attitude. And then I would say for women of your generation, like look for mentors, because I think they’re out there now in a way that maybe they worked when I was was coming up, and I certainly I tried to do my part with, you know, the younger women that I work with and make sure that they have somebody to talk to and talk through, you know, career decisions and next steps. And you know, which paths look easier for somebody that that is, you know, thinking about potentially having a family down the road. So I think it’s so important for women your age to realize that people will help you if you ask, right, and sometimes I remember when I was younger, being like, intimidated to ask, you know, right people older than me for help, but like, certainly women my age that have done it are more than happy to help people coming up behind us, right, because that’s how we that’s how we grow, you know, women in our field.

Grace 20:52
That makes sense. With that, thank you so much for being here for this interview.

Kate 20:58
You are very welcome. It was fun!

Grace 21:00
That’s all I have for today.

Kate 21:03
All right, thanks Grace. Good luck.

Grace 21:05
Thank you. Bye

Kate 21:06
bye.

Interview Technology and Process

This interview was recorded over Zoom, as Kate lives in Pennsylvania and I am living in Harrisonburg, VA. The meeting was recorded, and the audio file was converted and saved as an mp3 file. I used Otter.ai to transcribe the interview and then edited the transcript manually.

Transcription Process

The transcription process was conducted following the Columbia University Center for Oral History Research Transcription Style Guide. The interview was first transcribed by Otter.ai, which automatically generated name labels, time markings, and spacing, as said in the Style Guide. Then I read through the transcript and made edits, correcting words the platform couldn’t understand and adding in places where emotion couldn’t be felt. I also took out most filler words, unless they held meaning, and fixed grammar and punctuation.

Bibliography 

Yellen, Janet L. “The History of Women’s Work and Wages and How It Has Created Success for Us All.” Brookings, 6 Jan. 2021, www.brookings.edu/articles/the-history-of-womens-work-and-wages-and-how-it-has-created-success-for-us-all/.

“The Equal Pay Act of 1963.” US EEOC, www.eeoc.gov/statutes/equal-pay-act-1963. Accessed 9 Apr. 2024.

Brawner, Catherine E., et al. “Women in Industrial Engineering: Stereotypes, Persistence, and Perspectives.” Journal of Engineering Education, vol. 101, no. 2, Apr. 2012, pp. 288–318. EBSCOhost, https://doi.org/10.1002/j.2168-9830.2012.tb00051.x.