Interview with Henryk Gorski, Hist 150 Spring 2024, Conducted by Agata Gorski, on March 17, 2024.
Overview for the Social Change Interview
Up until the late 1980’s, Poland was under a communist rule. World War II had placed Poland under severe conditions as they had undergone severe damages to their infrastructure and economy. The government was paying little attention to consumer needs, and more on industrial projects which caused the standard of living to worsen even more than it had previously been. These are the conditions that my father grew up in with his family. Oftentimes he would talk about how he never saw a future for himself in Poland because of the state that it was left in. The Iron Curtain separated Poland from the eastern side of Europe, making it still a part of the Western Block, controlled by the USSR at the time.
However during the late 1970’s there was an uprising in Solidarity in Poland. A trade union that was led by a Polish leader, Gamułka, called “Workers Defense Committee” (KOR) would fight against the labor unrest and demand for political freedom with government recognition of their solidarity. Towards the late 1980’s Gamułka’s movement started to gain recognition and become the first opposition to have free elections from a Soviet satellite. Henryk Gorski and his brother saw this as an opportunity to try and change their futures. As West Germany was a part of the eastern blockade, there was more freedom and a chance to rebuild their lives. Since Henryk was just a teenager, he did not have much to give up if he decided to leave Poland. However, many Poles had to leave behind their families, homes, and businesses because there was no future in Poland. During the time, Germans were giving 99% of visas to Germany for most people that applied for it. Henryk was a part of the mass “Solidarity emigration”, that consisted of over 300,000 Poles moving to West Germany, who were mostly illegal. The main drive for this movement was the implementation of martial law, which drastically limited polish people’s everyday lives. It was put into place in order to slow down the solidarity movement from further gaining traction. As many of the Poles were emigrating to West Germany, many had to learn German in order to continue their survival, including my father and his brother.
Biography:
For this interview, I interviewed my father, Henryk Gorski. He was born in 1964 and immigrated from Poland to West Germany then the United States by himself when he was 22 years old, barely knowing any english. He left Poland as the Iron Curtain had begun falling, in hopes to find better opportunities as Poland wasn’t in the best condition. His mother died when he was 17 years old, and later on his father passed away. He started working various jobs to get any income that he could, while simultaneously attending community college and learning english. He lived in a small apartment with a roommate in Baltimore with no air conditioning and a run down car. He had no family or friends in the United States at the time, besides his brother, as they all stayed in Poland. The success of his future was entirely up to him as he paved his own ways towards the American Dream.
Agata Gorski 0:01
Hi, I’m Agata Gorski and today I’m going to be interviewing my dad. Henryk Gorski. So, let’s start off with what made you want to immigrate to the United States?
Henryk Gorski 0:12
Well, first of all, when I left my country Poland, in 1986, I really didn’t plan to immigrate to United States. But I left Poland to West Germany at the time, Frankfurt, Frank winter, on the river mine, and to after living for about one year, and doing all kinds of things. So working part times, trying to find trying to plan the future, I realized that I can’t really live in Germany and have all be accepted as a immigrant, the countries who, which did that provided better status for refugees. United States, Canada and Australia. So I decided to to to really move to United States who to apply to leave to leave Germany and to move to United States as a refugee. And I did receive positive my my request was positive, positivly accepted and as a result, I joined my brother, who moved to United States a year early, and I ended up September 28 1988, in Baltimore.
Agata Gorski 1:42
So were there any struggles that you underwent while leaving Poland and Germany? Like maybe leaving your family?
Henryk Gorski 1:49
Oh, sure. Yeah. So at the time, I was 22, when I left Poland, but well, first, when I was 17, my, my mom passed away. So she was sick for cancer. So it was really at the time there was not under the Iron Curtain and under communism in Poland and after a solid, solidarity uprising, there was really no, no future was that very, very difficult time in Poland during those years, especially, I would say 84, after 83 to to until Iron Curtain fell when Poland gain independence. But so an 86 to make story uh… 85, 86 was 85 where we made me my brother, we decided to really, there’s no future for us. So we decided to emigrate, by the way, the very important point I need to make the, during that time, especially 85, 86, massive number of Poles, I would say, over half a million really were immigrating, we didn’t have anything. As a result, we didn’t have anything to lose. But many people actually were leaving abandoning their houses, businesses and selling them or just and and they didn’t see the future either. So I was I was I was young and didn’t have anything, so why not to try it. And that’s how we decided to leave it was very easy decision for us. And also, very important point I have to make that I was a student. So as a student, I was for for us it was easy to get to, for us to get a visa to West Germany at the time. So we went to Warsaw apply for for visa and Germans at a time they were giving 99% of people who apply for for visa to West Germany, they were getting that. What was difficult at the time was getting a passport. So just just to this is very important to to know, and especially for the young generation, it’s you didn’t have a passport at home. Pass your passport, in order to travel, you needed to go to the police station and get a permit. I want to travel abroad and then you are questioning why you want to go, especially to the western countries. Oh my God, why do you want to leave? So you don’t like the country? What are you going to do there for? How long are you going to leave? Who do you know, there are all kinds of questions were being asked during that process. And then basically you apply. They, they they decide they made the decisions and they really, they could reject and you could not get a passport. As a result. You couldn’t apply for a visa and therefore you cant leave the country. And we were we were fortune because there was a one person from our village who work at the police station. And I went directly to him and asked “Do you have a object toward travel abroad,” and he said no. So as a result we we there was no really cooperation, I just simply he knew us he did know us and my father as a result he, he didn’t object because when you apply for the passport, they asked to do you know those people? So they either ask somebody who? Who knew? And so we’re like, yes.
Agata Gorski 5:23
So what was your image of the United States before you immigrated? And how has it changed since you’ve been living here? Now?
Henryk Gorski 5:31
Before I immigrated, or when I arrived?
Agata Gorski 5:34
Like when you were in Poland, and or in West Germany, like and you thought about the US, what was your thoughts about the US?
Henryk Gorski 5:41
Oh okay, got it. So that wasn’t really very good. And the reason why is because the United States was portrayed by media, like, like today, and simply U.S was, it was end of the Cold War, and U.S was spending massive amount of money for for for, to compete with Soviets. And as a result, they were kind of neglecting many things. West Germany, on the other hand, it was kind of the country to show off and to to to show other Soviets that there is there is this better life and and and they were not they were not spending much on military as a result they were that their money was putting into economy and and peoples need so really the quality of life in West Germany, was very good for me, I didn’t didn’t complain at all, it was easy to to to really establish your your presence and kind of move on. People actually asked me “Why you want to move to the United States?” And I simply said, Well, you know, initially first year when I when I in West Geremy, I didn’t. But after, after a year, when I thought what I’m how my future is going to look like what I want to do in the future, I decided to go back to university and study and finish my degree and basically I thought in the United States over a longer period of time is giving better opportunity.
Agata Gorski 7:17
Okay. So you already kind of described the immigration process a little bit. So were there any hardships that you underwent, like, while you were in the US for the first few years?
Henryk Gorski 7:28
Not really.The only challenge for me was when I arrived here, I needed to learn English. So I didn’t I did not come with English and so because of experience learning German, and I already knew that in order to to to move move on and establish your presence in any country, you have to you have to really know the language. So that experience helped me from Germany to to really put all my efforts to to, to learn English and so I did I basically didn’t go to work for six months and I studied 8,10,12 hours a day. And six months later, I received results. I was able to carry conversations and then I went to community college and sign for courses and initially English courses, but then I was able to resume my study.
Agata Gorski 8:29
Okay. So while being in the US did you see any cultural differences between your life in Poland? And the one the United States?
Henryk Gorski 8:38
Oh, yes, well, so… so when I left Poland, I went to West Germany, and the cultural difference was was Germ, was Germany. Some some some, the first reaction was arriving at the train station where you see vending machines, you see Coca Cola oranges, these goods which which were kind of luxury or are not not common. Only in special stores like Pevex, Pevex was the store where you could go if you had dollars you can buy these things. Not fruit, but but but all jeans got all kinds of cosmetics and Marlboro, Camel and things like that during those 80s it was like a… a sign of luxury for if you had this in Poland and it was a status to be Westerner. And so when we arrived in Frankfurt it was like oh my goodness first things were when we arrived we get off the train and when and what we did we bought Coca Cola can machine in the can. It was and we say, “wow, we are free”. This was the this was the sense. So really the the the shock experience was really mostly West Germany, and how, how everything from basic things was widely available when I arrived to United States on the other hand I ended up in Baltimore. So really, I have to be honest I felt like I’m I went back not to Poland but but the quality of ordinary goods were not as good as as West Germany. West Germany was kind of… given a good comparison, it’s just like pretty much every market every every store was gourmet store in West Germany. In the United States wasn’t upscale at the time. So really, you went to ordinary store, yes, you could buy things but they were not really as high quality. Of course, you do find with where I was able to find good quality stores in the days but but the prices were much higher. They were not commonly available, especially when you are when you are on the lo low wages, minimum wage, type of work. So that’s one fundamental difference now plus, you know, safety. Safety. Now suddenly the difference was the neighborhood. Suddenly you have segregation, bad neighborhood. This was the first first time exposure to this in the United States we didn’t Yes, there were kind of less safety but not to… United States was a contrast. And an example so the there was a I don’t remember exactly the title “America, America”, I believe the movie they made about United States and and they were showing this on German TV’s kind of… and people watch this many, many of my German friends say,”Are crazy, your going to United States?” I said yes. I still want to try it. But but not so for to make story short really didn’t some some of my peers who arrived the same through refugee status, they really complained a lot. I was since I was young, for me was was easy to adapt. And I adapted. I once I started speaking English went to university I really didn’t care anymore.
Agata Gorski 12:06
Yeah. So you know, after going through a few years of university and when you were looking for now like careers, did you ever feel limited when looking for careers?
Henryk Gorski 12:17
Uh… Initially Yes. And not that I was discriminated, it’s simply that it was… Cold War collapse. I mean, was was ended. And United States emphasis on industry was purely to compete with soviets and mad there was a massive amount of layoffs, especially from engineering skills. And and so when I was studying I was debating should I go mechanical engineering and and or something else computers and I went, since I work at Science Department, I went to the head of science department and the kind of chatted with him and and he he advised me you know, knowing these changes, what is what is going… I better if you better do if you finish computer science. So I finished computer science and at the time we really there were only jobs for for people who had a citizenship so which is Americans and uh, and really that’s the only way you could get the job so of friends even even they didn’t have as good grades they were able to get the job I couldn’t. Because simply I didn’t have I wasn’t naturalized yet. And and so the only for me was a private sector. Private sector was was was not really hiring a lot. And but yeah, I didn’t give up I was sending my my my resume applications at the time. So it was a little different process, 80’s… So finally, I I did get a call in I believe it was October, no no not October, August, and and I started work in mid mid probably September, 93′. And so I was living at the time in in Gatersville, Maryland and I got a job in Rockville, Maryland so.
Agata Gorski 14:16
So like with those jobs like starting there, is that how you decided upon the job that you currently have? Or how did you decide upon that.
Henryk Gorski 14:23
No, the the the the job in the computer field field its evolving. So in other words, there was a dif different job types, if you have finished computer science in 90s, and simply they were focused on programming. So you learn the language at this time I did know C language and then you are kind of evolving the as the industry evolves. So then then… so industry evolved and then you needed to acquire new skills. So even though I finished university, I was taking for instance computer courses every every semester at community college, so I learned C++ then I learned another one, then I was taken private courses. And so in… so I started my my first job was as a programmer at two years later, just just I got like the when the economy started booming, and every every company was hiring, it was like explosion of in in computer science and computer jobs, any computer related jobs was explosion mid 90’s. So really, I was getting offers like, I could, I could switch jobs without any problems. So I I did switch. So I already acquired a different skill set on the job plus on my own, and my job really evolved from… that’s majority jobs evolve. So you start with the basic type of work, then you evolve, then you become an architect. That’s, that’s my, of course, after many years on the job, and then kind of you go into leadership if you want. And that’s that’s my case. That’s what happened.
Agata Gorski 16:01
So was this something that you genuinely enjoyed? Or was it because there wasn’t anything else?
Henryk Gorski 16:06
No no, actually I did enjoy. Initially, I didn’t know whether they were like that because I when I when I finished my computer science, I couldn’t find a job for a couple months. But then once I find, I noticed really, I like it. So it was something that I really enjoyed. I really, really enjoyed this, I was… really liked the way you could solve the problem because programming is solving the problem. So you have a problem to solve or improve something through through the through the writing, automating. So automating tasks, or solving specific business problem needs, really was exciting so that’s that’s I really like it.
Agata Gorski 16:44
Okay. And the final question I have is what advice would you give to others who are thinking about immigrating to the United States?
Henryk Gorski 16:53
Oh. Uh, it depends from which country…
Agata Gorski 16:57
Well Poland or West Germany.
Henryk Gorski 17:01
Well to be honest right now there are, it’s the days are really different. And… give example, in my time, the percentage of people who are fluent in English were very small, especially in France and in Poland, lets take example Poland. West Germany was different. More and more Westerners did know English, or at least they were trying to learn. Now, those days, if somebody wants to move to United States, immigrate to United States, well, first of all, they don’t want to immigrate United States, they would like to probably, we kind of overload the source, word, immigration, Immigration, is something that you don’t like, there is a persecution in your country or there is war, and you want to immigrate. Now, people from Western Europe, Poland, right now, it’s a kind of western country, now. So it’s, you want to move to the United States for the job opportunity. So let’s say that somebody will offer you a job. And and the majority of young people now speaking, their bilingual, or speak three languages, so really for them to move to United States, its very easy. So the only advice I could give them, really, you have to, I would recommend them to come here first, you don’t have to have a visa now, Poland is free, you can travel to the United States and see first. So I would like I would like like to kind of advise them to why don’t you go to come here for two weeks, three weeks, whenever you can and look around and see whether this is something that the environment, surroundings will be will be something that you would like to do. And really check, you know, what is the cost of living is this Is that acceptable for you that you will be living away from your your families in my case was very easy. My mom passed away. When we’re in the United States, my dad passed away. So literally, we didn’t have a parents, me and my brother. So it was very easy decision to… now if you have large families and think about this, how you going to live and obviously now you can travel frequently, but but really think about the long term. Now if you want to just move in for for a short term, I mean, to acquire a new skill set and get experience and go back that that’s also good or start a company here, but it’s completely different dynamics. Now it’s… I would say it’s much easier to move now to United States, especially if you have a skill set. So if you don’t have a skill set I would really think think twice, but if you have a high skills, I mean, and you wanna find a good good job and really progressive career, absolutely. United States has plenty opportunity. And it’s a it’s a really country where if you know what you want to do in your life, and you have a big, you know, if you think big yes, United States still good country for that reason.
Agata Gorski 19:47
So would you have done anything differently in the past, like when moving here?
Henryk Gorski 19:52
No, not really. Because first of all, you… I didn’t have that experience, knowledge. You have that knowledge of the world when eh when you unfortunately, reach certain age and at least you know, in 40s when you you can have better comparison when you’re younger 20, early 20s You don’t know. You don’t know many things so the really… I don’t regret. If I could even add if somebody, many people asked me would you do this again? I said absolutely, yes. Because life is, is boring if you don’t have a challenges. Think about this. I move from one place and you need to learn German I really spoke pretty good German… wasn’t wasn’t… I couldn’t call myself fluent, but I was really, really speaking very well German and I moved here I learned English and finish school and study and got a job and have family and really, I would say really from that point of view. It’s great.
Agata Gorski 20:57
Okay, I think that wraps it up. Thank you.
Henryk Gorski 21:00
Well, thank you very much. Thanks for your time.
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