Vietnamese artillerymen fire from a mountain position during field training. 6 July 2019. Unsplash, https://unsplash.com/photos/grayscale-photo-of-men-standing-near-cannon-TNU8604rMVk. Accessed 9 Apr. 2024.

Interview with Phillip Meyer, History 150 Spring 2024, Conducted by Dylan Meyer, March 11 2024.

Overview of Interview

Throughout the early 60s, America was engaged in a cold war against communist nations seeking to spread their influence. As a result, America would get into what is considered today to be one of the most controversial wars in all of American history. This also happened to be one of our first televised wars meaning information on all the battles and behind the scenes conflict got back to the public in a quick manner. As a result, the American public shared their lack of support for the war by protesting and in some cases refusing to accept the draft as a valid system and not deploying.

However, there were some people like Phillip Meyer, who while they may have not supported the war, agreed to go anyways. In this interview, he explained how he was an educated man at DePauw University who upon completion of schooling, agreed to go to war regardless of the opinions he felt toward it. While he never ended up being deployed, Phillip gives his recollections of what it was like living on the Homefront during this time and what the public’s general perception was. He went on to explain his thoughts on different major events from the 60s through the 70s including Vietnam involvement, Kent State, and even the Watergate scandal. His opinion on how different administrations handled these events and feeling toward the war give a genuine and direct perspective from someone who lived through them. It’s important to hear these stories during this time of immense revolution and changing culture. Hearing these stories and first-person accounts can help balance our opinion’s and give us an impartial perspective on our history.

Biography

My Grandpa was born in Northern Indiana on February 15, 1944. He lived on a small farm with his family and siblings helping out whenever he could. He got a good education and graduated from high school before eventually attending DePauw University, a small liberal arts college in Indiana. It was here he became an educated man and constructed his own opinions and beliefs on politics, morals, and war. Despite being largely Anti-war, he was drafted in 66′ and decided to fulfill his commitment to his country. After, graduating college, and landing his first job at Etna, he married the women of his dreams, and prepared for war. Plans changed after being rejected by the army after his last medical examination ruled, he was not healthy enough for war. He handled and went through numerous character changes moving from Indiana, to Ohio, to New Jersey, before finally settling in Pawley’s Island, South Carolina. From Rasing 3 kids, handling a job, and being a loving father and grandfather, he really knows what it means to embody the American dream.

Historical Background

Before Vietnam, the reality of war was masked and disguised to the public. Traditionally, during this time the only way to find information about the war was to read the weekly newspaper’s which were heavily biased and propagandized towards the pro-war movement. At this time the anti-war view was still present but in a definite minority. The media was highly controlled by the government and any story that put the U.S. military in bad lighting was scrapped and thrown under the rug. It was because of this that American patriotism was so high during this time. In a Gallup poll from September 19-25th of 194o, over half of the participants said that they would support helping England win even at the risk of getting into the war.

Fast forward a little over 20 years and the U.S. finds themselves in a cold war trying to prevent the Soviet Union from spreading their communist movement any further, having already had set up communist governments in many Eastern European countries. As more and more countries began to collapse and form communist governments, concern began to build in the U.S. about what this meant for our future and for principals of democracy. As a way to combat this growing concern, the U.S. began to support ant-communist southern Vietnamese government in their fight to keep communism out of Vietnam. This brought us into what would be our first televised war. America thought what they would do in Vietnam would be similar to all the other wars they fought before it. However, with growing suspicion of our military’s transparency and the rise of the anti-war movement, America would soon learn the difficulties of fighting a war with a divided country.

For the first time in our nation’s history our country experienced backlash for the war effort. Many young Americans including my grandpa at the time were supporting the anti-war effort by protesting and making their voices heard. Noise would soon be heard from teens in Iowa wearing black armbands to school in opposition to the war effort in 65′. This idea would soon catch on and by 66′, public demonstrations of protest became very popular. The most infamous one being the Kent State protest of 70′, where four students were shot by the national guard. While we here so much about what was happening in Vietnam, hearing direct testimonies from what was going on back at home can be just as important.

Transcription

Start of first clip:

Summary: For the first clip I asked my grandpa about his experience with Vietnam. Everyone at this time had a story to tell, regardless of whether you were on the front lines or back on the Homefront, and my grandpa happened to be an educated student coming out of college around the time Vietnam started, giving him a justified and well-studied opinion on the war effort. He shared his memory on the origins of the war effort, his thoughts on how it was handled, along with his own story on getting to drafted to Vietnam, and finally the effect he believes it had on this country.

Dylan Meyer  0:00

So the fact that you had a job immediately after you graduated from college at a time where a lot of young boys around your age were being sent to Vietnam, did that exempt you from going to war?

 

Speaker 1  0:14

Yes, the, you know, the Vietnam thing was, of course, the Vietnam cons. I was in college from 1962 to 1966. So, the Vietnam War, the conflict had already kind of started, actually, earlier in 19, in the 60s, when we actually sent advisors over to Vietnam. Not sure what they did, but that was our first involvement. (JFK sent over 500 troops and military advisors to assist the government of south Vietnam) And then slowly, we kept getting backed into sending more people over. So, in college, I was aware of the wear of the involvement in Vietnam. My opinion of it was not good. You know, the President was Lyndon Johnson. At that time, I was, you know, my, the issues I was thinking of in college was, first of all, getting a job, and graduating, so I got that done. I got my job, hired by Aetna. (A healthcare insurance agency) But I didn’t know what I was going to do with the draft. And I knew I was going to be drafted, everybody of my age was at that time starting to be drafted. And so, I had those mixed emotions. I, I was not pro war at all in college, I was against our Vietnam or our Vietnam involvement completely.

You know, there were the people that are government, governmental people, not necessarily the president, but some of the senators and Congress, congressional people felt that in the it was a real risk that that China, Communist Chinese Communists would come down onto the Vietnam Glenside peninsula, and install a communist regime, clearly in Vietnam (satellite states), and the Vietnam regime I believe wasn’t necessarily communist. I don’t believe it ever never, never was. But anyway, I was against our involvement. You know, part of it was that I didn’t want to be drafted, you know, so I wasn’t supporting the war. But the draft was ominous for me. And I didn’t really know what to do. But I decided I was going to if they, they called me, which they did in 1966. This was after I had been with that, I was in a training program in Connecticut. I got a draft notice. And I was called to a to a induction center, I had to get on a train at a certain time and place to go to an induction center. And that was before I was actually sent into the into the army, but I decided I decided to allow myself to be drafted. I didn’t want to spend any more than two years and as a draftee, I could limit my involvement to just two years. So, they I had some health issues due to some athletic injuries with my shoulder. But my first physical exam they took, they accepted me. So, I got it. I was accepted into the army and wasn’t taken in yet. They deferred my going in until later in the year since I was finishing up a training program, so I was told that I would probably get another notice in November of 66′ to report for duty and I did get reported for duty on a troop train, in which the destination would have been Fort Dix, a big army base. Most of those people would end up later being in Vietnam. So, I was on the way. And then we stopped for one final, they gave us one final physical exam. When we were after we were on the train, we stopped. I don’t even know where it was. It was some Army Center in New Jersey. And they reviewed my medical record and decided to reject me. Oh, yeah. I was. I was happy about that.

I was very happy about that. Yeah. The injury was it wasn’t faced with the Vietnam issue. I didn’t support the war. And but I was willing to go, I was not I was not willing to. You heard some people, some have some kids at that time, go to Canada and do anything to escape the obligation. Some declared that they would conscientiously object. (Mohammed Ali was a pioneer of this at the time) (became very popular) involvement in Vietnam was, was pretty, it was pretty significant. It was obviously it was quite different than, I’m sure. the Korean and Korean War and the world and World War II, we had more television media people involved in Vietnam, in the in reporting to Vietnam activities. I don’t I don’t know that. The media changed very much, though. And our involvement. It reported it, it had obviously, some of the more famous in some of the more famous battles and situations that happen in in Vietnam, like the Mai Lai massacre, [U.S. soldiers massacred Vietnamese citizens] where the army unit just destroyed and killed everybody in the town. That was that was reported. So, I was not sure if it was reported properly. And punctually. But it finally did get reported. Probably because of the media. There was some photography that became very important, there was a photo of a Viet Cong person (Communist side) being killed by someone else on a city street, and just the brutality of that was made very clear. Everybody saw that photo. (Photos like this got back to the U.S. sparking political unrest) (media’s role in the war)

End of first clip:

 

Start of Second Clip:

Summary: In this clip, I wanted to get my grandpa’s opinion on what role he thought the media played in the war effort, and if he felt there was too much being hidden from the public. We went into longer talks later on about his thoughts on how the government influenced the media and what he thinks about how media has evolved over the years from giving the news from a strictly informative perspective to opinion based and bias ridden sources that mix up the truth. This clip also went over the Kent State shooting and his original knowledge and first reactions to this event.

Dylan Meyer  8:16

Do you think there should have been greater transparency from our gov’t in Vietnam? (less gov’t control of the news) and what role do you feel like the media should have played in that?

Speaker 1  8:23

So, what are you talking about? Transparency? Yeah. That’s tough for me to report on. I think there was. there was a lot going on that the public didn’t, did not know at that at that time. And but I so I guess I do think that greater transparency of, of our activities would have should have occurred. Yes. Yep.

Dylan Meyer 9:01

So, the public can really see more or less what was going on? And not the and not have it be hidden from them by the government? Yeah, yeah. So, kind of going back to the antiwar movement. I wanted to ask, are you familiar with the Kent State shooting of 1970?

Yes, I was very aware of it. Because at that time, I worked in Cleveland, which was only about 25 miles from Kent State. I work downtown Cleveland and the coverage of the Kent State. situation. The response from the National Guard was local news there. And there was an example of again, where we had I think a large student protest was happening and I’m not sure. Well, what happened is, is the National Guard overreacted, and started shooting and killed some students. (killed 4 students and injured 9) And it was, it was just horrible. So, it was done because it was the cause of it, the cause of the problem was just lack of training. And from the National Guard standpoint, lack of management of particularly of the unit that was there. And I guess you have to recognize that it was I don’t think there was a lot of protesting in other areas. Other I think this is one of the few protests in this in that part of the country, at least, it was occurring. Protesting wasn’t commonplace, is what I’m saying. [Vietnam War protests on College campuses tended to focus on universities which were involved in military weapons production.] So this was different, and that’s probably the excuse why the unit wasn’t prepared, why they improperly use their firearms, when obviously, they shouldn’t, but it’s just a horrible situation, obviously.

End of second clip

Start of third clip

Summary: Building off the effect of the Kent State shooting, I wanted to give my grandpa some context to this tragic event with some information he might not have known at the time. I wanted to touch on the event’s real life effect on the people involved and even more the country’s view of this horrific event and how it might have affected their trust in leadership. While he empathized with the students and the sadness of having to deal with these losses, I was surprised to hear that he didn’t think the event had a major impact on the country as a whole and their trust in government officials. He mentioned that he still thought most people’s attention was for the most part on the war and getting our country through it.

Dylan Meyer  11:22

So, there’s been a lot of investigation into this event. But some of the details were that some of the students started throwing rocks at the National Guardsmen as they were surrounding the protest. And they were kind of cornered, which led to the guards explaining in their testimony them feeling like it was a life-or-death situation where they had to shoot. And as a result, four students were shot, nine were injured. And one of the most famous photos from that was a video, it was just a picture of a woman standing over one of her friends who was shot. And that photo made national headlines in the newspapers and spread. And it was kind of like the pinnacle of the anti-war movement.

Speaker 1  12:10

Right? Yes, yes, you’re right. I remember that photo very much. The young woman just kneeling over her dead, dead friend. And it was, you know, obviously, obviously, she was terrorized. And as were I think, other students at that time. But it was a bad mistake. It was poor judgment. From the leaders of the National Guard unit. And you know, it’s people in that area still remember it? Remember what happened? Kent State? Certainly.

Dylan Meyer  13:04

Do you think this affected our trust in government officials and leadership? (Nixon at the time)

 

speaker 1  13:13

You think it was your question is does it affect?

 

Dylan Meyer  13:17

Yes, does it effect America’s trust in our leadership and government officials after Kent State, did it change our trust in them?

 

Speaker 1  13:25

I don’t know that that specific incident did that. I really, really, really don’t I don’t think that that it was it was a major incident because it was reported in such a shocking, sad situation. I don’t think that it changed people’s opinions or, you know, against our government, though. I don’t think, I can’t connect that. Really, at that time. Yeah, you know. It’s not like it’s not like the anti-war, anti-war movement in terms of what was going on in Vietnam. That’s where the that’s where the real problem was, and I didn’t see Kent State as incriminating our government, necessarily. (thoughts on the impact of Kent State vary based on socioeconomic factors, location, and family politics)

 

Dylan Meyer  14:31

Yeah, that makes sense.

 

End of Third Clip

 

Interview Process:

To set up the interview, I contacted by grandpa a week in advance letting him know about the dynamics of the assignment and the role he would play in completing this project. The night before the interview I sent him a copy of the questions I would be asking him, so that he could be prepared to give detailed answers on the day of the interview. Before the interview, I sent him a zoom link, inviting him to the session on 2 pm of that afternoon. I used my computer during the call and my grandpa used his phone, however due to technical difficulties with my camera, we both used facetime on our Ipad’s to see each other. With the exception of some minor communication issues with the mic, the interview went smoothly, and my grandpa deeply enjoyed sharing his life story. This interview allowed me and grandpa to build an even closer connection, along with giving me the chance to learn more about our family lineage.

Transcription Process

When I was transcribing the interview, I made sure to look closely at the detail presented by my grandpa and highlight any major events and culture references. The way I approached transcribing this interview was very unorthodox. I had to edit my interview down into three separate clips due to time constraint. To summarize each clip, I wrote a paragraph explaining each of my grandpa’s most intriguing responses and reflecting on the information he explained. I tried to give context to areas of the interview where my grandpa’s opinion might have seemed confusing or unfinished. I also gave context and some explanation to my own questions which might be confusing to the readers who are not as educated on Vietnam.

Bibliography

“Military Advisors in Vietnam: 1963.” John F. Kennedy Presidential Library and Museum, www.jfklibrary.org/learn/education/teachers/curricular-resources/military-advisors-in-vietnam-1963. Accessed 7 Apr. 2024. 

“How Did Public Opinion About Entering World War II Change Between 1939 and 1941?” United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, exhibitions.ushmm.org/americans-and-the-holocaust/us-public-opinion-world-war-II-1939-1941. Accessed 7 Apr. 2024. 

“Why Did the U.S. Go to War in Vietnam?” Why Did the U.S. Go to War in Vietnam?, www.history.navy.mil/content/history/museums/hrnm/explore/VietnamExhibitPage/BeginningsReloadV1/WhydidtheUSGotoWarReloadV1.html. Accessed 7 Apr. 2024. 

McNamara, Robert. “How the Vietnam War Protests Started a Movement and Changed History.” ThoughtCo, ThoughtCo, 28 July 2019, www.thoughtco.com/vietnam-war-protests-4163780. 

“Vietnam: The First Television War.” National Archives and Records Administration, National Archives and Records Administration, prologue.blogs.archives.gov/2018/01/25/vietnam-the-first-television-war/. Accessed 7 Apr. 2024. 

What the Kent State Killings Did to the Student Protest Era – JSTOR DAILY, daily.jstor.org/the-kent-state-killings-and-the-student-protest-era/. Accessed 7 Apr. 2024. 

How Watergate Weakened Trust in Government – The Washington Post, www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/12/watergate-trust-government-reforms/. Accessed 7 Apr. 2024. 

 

Transcribed by https://otter.ai