Military Wife and Changing Gender Roles for Women, History 150 Spring 2023, Conducted by Brandon Walsh, March 24, 2023.
Biography:
Nana was born November 17th, 1944 and grew up in Pittston Pennsylvania with her Mom, Dad, and a sister. She grew up in a small mining town that mainly consisted of people of Irish descent or Polish descent. Both of her parents worked to make enough money, so Nana and her sister would take care of themselves and dp all the chores around the house. Nana attended a Catholic high school where she would meet her husband. Nana would not go on to attend college, but instead she entered the workforce. Her future husband would go on to attend a military institute to join the army. They married in 1968 and she decided to travel with him while he moved around for the army. They moved around and live in many different places like Oklahoma, Texas, Hawaii, Italy, Virginia, Pennsylvania, and etc.. While moving around for the army Nana and her husband would have 5 children together, all being born in different places. During these times Nana had to work also, so they were able to make enough money. She held multiple jobs, getting one every time they moved. These jobs did not range much reflecting the gendered jobs of the time: secretarial positions were for women and jobs perceived as “dangerous” were for men. Nana would take care of the children as if she was a single mother while her husband would be deployed. She has explained how this was one of the most challenging things to do with all the traveling they had to do. After her husband retired they would settle down in Fredericksburg Virginia. This is her story that has made her the person that she is today.
Research:
Women in the 20th century went through many changes and the workforce was one of them. Working class women did not have many options for work outside of jobs like secretaries, teachers, and nurses. Most did not have the opportunity to attend college.
This changed during the wars where women began to work in the factories, but after the men came back they retook their jobs in the factories and women were limited to the small amount of jobs, while the jobs expanded some as they were still allowed to work in those places like factories. Women who did not get married were seen as unattractive and nagging as compared to married women who were more respected. Women were stereotyped into being married, stay at home, teachers, nurses, and secretaries and that is what they were allowed to do, but many did not want to fit into that stereotype. Overseas in places like Italy were not much different from the United States of America, women did not have many options in the workforce. Italy specifically went through change, but it was very little and women were stuck with more “traditional” jobs.
Nana entered the workforce right out of high school she did not continue her education as it was not much of an option for her. She explains how her and many of her friends did not continue their education after high school and entered the workforce. Nana started off working in a bank at a small secretarial position. This was common for women at that time to enter the workforce right out of high school as they were very limited with options of continuing their education and with job opportunities. There were more jobs for women that were young and unmarried, so Nana fit that role. Once Nana’s husband graduated from the military institute they got married which was a cultural norm at the time. While traveling because of the army with her husband Nana was stuck to cultural norms of the jobs she could have. Women have caused change to happen that have expanded their opportunities which continue to change, but it started with the women of Nana’s era. Women like Nana were not given the opportunity to have a career and stuck to short term careers. Change has happened and will continue to happen for women in the workforce.
Overview:
Before the 1930s there really was not a place for women in the workforce, no jobs were given to them because of barriers set in place. From the 1930s to the 1970s the number of women in the workforce increased as jobs started opening up and barriers being lifted for women. Many of these jobs were for educated women only. While jobs opened up they were basically all the same job as women were mainly restricted to working as nurses, secretaries, other office jobs, or women would be stay at home mothers. Even though these job opportunities arose for women, many of the married women were stay at home mothers as it was frowned upon to be a married woman working. The jobs that opened up were mainly opened up for young women that just graduated high school that were seen as objects to attract business.
In current day society this dynamic has completely changed. The social change from when women first started working to now is a big progression towards the equal treatment for both men and women. Though there is still discrimination in the workplace it has significantly improved in the current day. Even though there is still discrimination it has made many progressive strides that are leaping us forward and finding more opportunities for women. These opportunities are not women specific jobs but rather women are now being able to compete for jobs that normally men would hold. Social change has made many strides and has not stopped as it will continue to happen along with our changing society.
Transcription:
Brandon Walsh 0:00 : Hi. I’m Brandon Walsh. I’m interviewing my grandma, who’s going to be going by Nana, this interview today about life traveling with the military spouse and the gender differences. So to start off, how was your childhood growing up with as I as I know, you only have you only had a sister, how was that growing up? Where you were.
Nana 0:35 : I grew up in a small mining town, coal mining town, and I had one sister, who, we didn’t have much money, my father worked on the railroad, but he had a low paying job. But my mother didn’t work. She had to go to work when we were seven. When I was seven years old, and my sister and I had to fend for ourselves. We didn’t have babysitters or people back then. And it was just a normal living, you know? Back then that’s how most people did live. Go ahead.
Brandon Walsh 1:21 : And then was would you say like, anything is different from like, me growing up compared to you as like, you guys. Were? I were Irish. So is that have? Were there any like customs or traditions that you guys did?
Nana 1:41 : Okay, well, different than what you guys grew up with? I would say, yeah. We just we always lived close to her grandparents and stuff. But we had certain foods that we ate, we had certain traditions that we did. Like, like Irish traditions, we like now you kids, you need a lot of spaghetti sauce and things like that. We didn’t eat that back then we eat a lot of potatoes and meat, and things that my grandparents used to make you make everything yourself. I don’t know how to describe, you know, the difference is we didn’t have supermarkets available like you guys did. You could just go buy something come home. We had to make our own food. We had to go out in you know, we grew a lot of our own vegetables and things like that.
Brandon Walsh 2:48 : Well, different a lot of different times a lot of different things, new inventions and stuff.
Nana 2:54 : Yeah, you. Well, you guys have TV. We never had TV. Yeah. I didn’t have a TV until I was 13 years old. It was the nine entity black and white TV that we were thrilled over. You know, we’d go outside at seven o’clock in the morning and be out there till it got dark at night. And soon as it got dark. Everybody knew they had to go home. My sister and I walked to school. We didn’t like you guys, you learn a pair of shoes. You go buy a pair of shoes. Our days we used to put cardboard and paper in your shoes when you got holes in them. Because we didn’t have money to go get new shoes. Yeah. But everybody was in the same situation.
Brandon Walsh 3:45
And then I’m going off of like childhood and stuff like that. Like more towards high school. I know you met Papa in high school. And he went on to to the military college I forget the name of it.
Nana 4:06 : But at that time was Pennsylvania Military Academy. Yeah.
Brandon Walsh 4:13 : But like for you What did what did women usually do after they graduated from high school?
Nana 4:21 : Women back in my day, mostly got married after they very few very few girls went to went to college. Okay, you go get a job. I got a job in a savings and loan association. I worked in I worked in the office of a factory. I worked in you know in a savings and loan association. I worked there. And then when Papa and I got married when he went into the military, back then they used to work six days a week. I worked when I will first just went in, I worked, like just secretarial jobs wherever we lived, you know, it wasn’t a career, it was a job just to make ends meet. But it wasn’t. I didn’t actually have a career. Yeah. Well give it women did back then.
Brandon Walsh 5:17 : Yeah. So the that was, those were pretty much the only jobs you that were open for women. Just like the secretarial jobs and stuff like that.
Nana 5:28 : Yeah, secretarial jobs or Yeah, or factory jobs. A lot of woman, you know, worked in factories. And yeah, back in my day, yes. And then a lot of opportunities.
Brandon Walsh 5:44 : So, and then were there because then Papa went into the military? And then you traveled with him with all the kids. Were there? Any, like the different places you guys lived? Were there different job opportunities that were open compared to like the last place you lived?
Nana 6:03 : No, no, it was the same wherever you went. It was just most most military wives. You know, they either they stayed home with their children. Or if they did have a job. It was like in I forget what the name of the places were back then. But with like places like Walmart and stuff, as clerks, we worked as secretaries we worked. We didn’t have like, firms or anything like that, that you went to work for. School, you know. I don’t know how to explain the different jobs, but there wasn’t a lot of opportunities, just like growing up. You know, Papa played sports. And he did. There was girls didn’t play sports in our day. There was no opportunities for girls to play sports. There wasn’t a lot of opportunities for jobs outside of, you know, very few women were educated went on to get good jobs. Most of the women, and especially military women, they stayed home and took care of kids or they had low paying jobs. No, no, very few had careers. Yeah.
Brandon Walsh 7:19
Well, that’s changing now. So that’s good.
Nana 7:25 : Oh, it changed a lot since that. Like now women are just, you know, they’re just as important and they go out and it’s a different error.
Brandon Walsh 7:35 : Yeah. So, um, and I know you guys lived overseas, were there like different expectations? I would use different expectations for women overseas or like, compared to the states, or were they just about the same
Nana 7:57 : as overseas? Yeah, overseas, it was probably just about the same. We’re where we lived, it was just about the same because there wasn’t any job opportunities for women. Other than the same little basic. They didn’t have careers. I don’t remember anybody overseas having a career. They just went about, you know, just for their husbands do what they needed to do to, to back their husbands up by their husbands were gone. And go in places. So no, there was no, I think it was worse being overseas than it was back in the States.
I’m sorry.
Brandon Walsh 8:52 : No, I’m just saying like for as, as women,
Nana 8:57 : as women, yeah. Being a military wife overseas, I think was worse than being in the States. Because in the States, you had family and stuff that you know, that you could probably get jobs and stalking new people. You could get things. If you were stayed long enough in one place. Yeah. Overseas, you had nothing and there was overseas when I was there, there was no opportunities for women none. So there was really nothing. You could go as a woman
Brandon Walsh 9:35 : and for like, as you how was would you say it was? How difficult was it just traveling and moving all the different places was especially with all the kids to
Nana 9:54 : move in every few years was very difficult for children because they were just They just didn’t, they’d make friends and they just make friends and they’d have to move. Your husband would go ahead and mean, and he was there, you were left with your children, to pack up, to sell a house to get everything they needed to talk to the kids. I mean, we’ve went when we went overseas, my oldest children did not want to go at all. And they wanted to stay back with their grandparents or somebody. And it was just, it was up to the wives to convince the kids, you know, to go and to try it. And, you know, you know, just, they had the responsibility of it all, because men would just go ahead and they’d be there. But the women had to get them ready, get their passport, get, you know, the schools get their things, look out, you know, right, and find out what schools what the school required what they did. And that was that is difficult for military wives. Yeah. Because they have nobody, and they don’t have anyone back there who could help them.
Brandon Walsh 11:15 : Yeah, they were all handling all that on their own. Right. Yeah. And so I guess I only have one more question. It’s just for, for you, and all you’ve done, what like advice would you give to like the next generation of like, women?
Nana 11:40 : of women? Yeah. No, I hope. Well, women our age, we were strong to make we weren’t as aggressive, as aggressive as women, I think are today. And I’m very proud of the way my daughters and my granddaughters are growing up, because they’re growing up independent, not feeling like they’re second to anybody that their careers is just as important as their husbands or brothers or friends or whatever. That that’s very, that’s very important that they realize that they are, their value is the same as it is back in our day. Women didn’t feel that they were as good or valued as good as as a man. And I just want I just want the girls growing up now to realize that their worth is just as valuable and to stand up for what they believe in and not be afraid. We were afraid of everything. I don’t want them afraid of anything.
Brandon Walsh 12:50 : Well, thank you. Thank you for your time. And yeah,
Technology and Process:
The interview was not done in person, rather it was done online. The interview was conducted over zoom and was recorded off zoom as well. To prepare for the interview I first explained what the interview would be with my interviewee and found a time that worked well. Then I prepared the questions and tested out zoom to figure out how to work it. Then the interview was conducted and not much editing was done to the interview itself. To make the small edits that were made, were made by editing software of the Mac The transcript was helped by Otter.ai which was easy to use and sign up for.
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