Overview of interview:

This interview was conducted March 16, 2023 with my Nonna in person at her retirement home.

This interview is about my Nonna (A.R.) who was actually born in Northern Africa due to the second world war, and her and her family having to move around from Africa to Italy, and eventually immigrating to the United States. The hardships of A.R.’s life as well as major moments will be discussed. She discusses how she adapted to new  environments including to the United States, where she currently lives.

Now, about the in-person interview, I asked my Nonna about what her initial feelings about the war were, and if she had to move homes often. I also asked her about the immigration process and why she eventually moved to the United States. She did repeat herself a few times, as I expected her to, but I was able to draw a lot of good information about what her life was like. My Nonna lived in Africa in the 1930’s into the 1940’s, then she moved to Italy and lived there until the mid 1950’s, where she moved to the United States to get married and start a family. It is important to notice that North Africa was a big battlefield on the ground and in the air. Nonna said she saw many of the planes fly over her home and heard the loud booms. “It was a nice sunny day, skies were blue, and then BOOM, the planes would come out of nowhere” she said. Her favorite point to talk about was her learning of the English language, and how excited she was when she moved to America. She had to choose to learn Arabic or English, and from what she said, Arabic was difficult to comprehend because the letters were hard to distinguish. Plus, English had more similarities to the Italian language. Nonna very much liked talking about her husband and how many Americans were “cute” or “good looking”. She also emphasized how Europeans saw America as a great country that was free for all. Nonna was proud do talk about becoming an American citizen, because she lived in a good area, and had four successful children. Immigration is such an important topic to talk about, and so many of our generation’s relatives come from a different country. Whether it was an easy or a hard transition, immigration gives us new cultures and interesting stories to hear and tell.

A.M. 0:00

Good morning. My name is Aidan Master and today I will be interviewing my Nonna. She was born in North Africa and lived in Africa and Italy for lots of her life. We’ll be first starting off with this question. Could you tell me about your childhood and any troubles you faced?

Nonna (A.R.) 0:14

Oh, yes. To us, it was not trouble. Because we had mother and father that they always watching us. So when it come to the war, and then you know, starting, they say, okay, my two daughters, I’m going to send them to have to be away from the war, a little bit farther up in the little mountain, well, don’t call it mountain, but you stay there during the war to hide from bombs and stuff like that and there were a lot of children. So that’s why my parents stayed home in Benghazi. To clear out of the house, because they were also having four or five rooms that they would rent to the Italian military. So we were out. And we were so happy to be there, up in the mountains taking care, you know, of us while the parents working.

A.M. 1:33

Thank you for letting me know. And you also lived in Africa for part of your life. Can you tell me what that was Like?

Nonna (A.R.) 1:39

I was I was born and raised in Benghazi. Until I went to Benghazi, I just stayed until I was six or seven years old. But they say we had to go to Tripoli and the rest of my life was at the capital, Tripoli, Tripoli Libya.

A.M. 2:07

And were there any scary times in your life where do you think the war impacted you?

Nonna (A.R.) 2:13

Oh yes, yes. But we were so excited because we were always with mother and father watching. I can hear the planes are coming, during the day with a nice blue sky. Oh, but we want to see the planes that throw the bombs down. No, we have to be on an anticrollo, anticrollo, meaning to go to something that is been like rooms you and your houses and they put it with you know stuff to protect us, because at the time the bomb but they were not that big they were small but if they would come they still kill you. So we would stay in something in fact, that the school was closed we went to all here is the seat here are the planes so let’s go out of the rooms and they had an anticrollo means protecting us from because bombs were not there. Let me say oh look the sun us shining in the blue sky. But they throw them out if we were inside inside the the school. With the with the protection we were okay. Okay, so that’s how I remember when I was only what 9 or 10 years old and my sister was only seven; two or three years younger. So she like she wanted to go every time mom and dad would come. So, we were we were protected and this is this is I remember there’s many things I can see I can see that planting the bombs and they were not found they were something long and you know the enchant Yadi meaning that if they hit the ground, it will come it would come with a with… all the pieces would work out so that’s where the very you know, you put your wouldn’t have to be kind of protected from something. But, you know, we made it. We made it, and here, and here we are. What else would you like to know?

A.M. 5:04

I’m sure that was a very scary time in your life. Could you tell me about your friendships? Or did you have a lot of friends? Or did you spend most of your time with family?

Nonna (A.R.) 5:13

We’ve been hanging out with a group of classes; we have the rooms. But But yeah, we were in school with the majority of the people, they start making the leave, and leave to go to Sicily and go to Italy. But we did, we stayed, we stayed until, for some reason, at one point, they were just, it was the new people that came to get to get the, the, the North, the northern part. And they say, Now, you’re not going to stay to Benghazi, you have to go to Tripoli. And sure enough, my mom and dad, close their doors, told the people to leave, because they were also the people that belonged on the on the on the Navy, and the Navy on the day, they would come in to, you know, to visit, you know how the soldiers are, they will go and they’ll go to restaurant, they were closing, they were they wanted to go shopping. So one of the most favorite places was my my parents if they have the bedroom, but they had to abandon that, too. So mom and dad sent us to this place, away where there was no fighting until until we had to come back. And after maybe six or seven months of all, they were starting to dry farms, even where all us kids were there. So they start the military to take up an in line a long line of us, did it this one I remember to all these lines of big communes in you know, with us to bring them back to Benghazi from the outside and take them to the parents that were there waiting for us. So we did the work. That’s what we decided they stay one or two years, but I think they had they had to leave. So one of the last family was the Innocentes with the two daughters in the middle of this, of the the piazza. And this was was a big, big cambian. It says if I’m going from Benghazi to Tripoli, would you like to come with me, you can come in I you know, I don’t ask you to money or anything, but I have to go to Tripoli. So there was this is a nice, this was a God sending to us. We had a few suitcases, we went to Tripoli. And it was about 1000 Kilometers and 1000 and some kilometers took an hour now if they may be half a day, next day, we had to go to Tripoli. And that’s where we’d stay until we were teenagers and I remember that, and then when the war. I mean, it was just less they were they were people that wanted to have more land. It’s what I can say, I can tell you that.

A.M. 8:49

And to travel did you have to walk places or were there any other vehicles?

Nonna (A.R.) 8:54

Oh, yeah, if he would stop able to stop he says I am tired. I remember the guides that he took us come in my camion in you, you know that is a touch paper, a piece and we were just mom they lived two of us, my sister and I and he says but I have to travel in and falling asleep. Let’s stay a little bit a couple of hours or maybe two or three hours in the night rest and then we keep on going from two to Tripoli. And I stay there that’s when I grow up. That’s where the English one of the owners no more the Arabs. And then we just did almost a normal life because the schools were reopen and life was okay. We got along with it permitted on in honor of Benghazi and Tripoli because they were the Arabs. It was the Italian they went to Vatican. You know they want to uplift when you fight for more land and stuff like that. But everything seemed seem to the the English it was the English over there. Yeah, good day school went, we did well then how much how much school if you don’t get we make we they make too much school because my sister and I me first what three years? Yeah, three or two years difference. I was the first that I had to go and find something, some jobs. And what they were agency and everybody else that was trying to make from us Italian to say we take if we lost everything is the Italian going to to take care of us. And sure enough, she went to Mom and Papa and went to officers and tried to say just we lost everything, lost everything we had. And, but God was always watching us. And then then they went to offices, and then they went to the the higher society to say, what are we going to do for all we lost? Well, the Italian government paid us back for something.

A.M. 11:36

And you also lived in an orphanage for part of your life?

Nonna (A.R.) 11:39

No, no. No orphanage. Well, if you want to call it that orphanage, yeah, because when the parents to come and visit us, once in a while once, you know, maybe 10 days, because there were no buses to take you there. And, you know, Or… or somebody with the motorcycle Mom would work with a motorcycle and hold on, you know, in a drive to see us to see my sister at night. In fact, my sister said, I don’t want to stay here anymore. I want to come with mommy and daddy. So she did. Because she was only four or five, six, seven, eight or nine. I like it. I like we thought my level 9-10 years older people. So this is I don’t know, am I explaining. explain something?

A.M. 11:39

Yes, I think so. I think it makes sense very well. And I’m sure you had a very tough childhood. But you also had your fun moments. When did the war sort of come to an end.

Nonna (A.R.) 12:44

of 44′ 45′ it started to get to do better. By the time we moved from Benghazi, to Tripoli, and he was there until 2000. And then I was I was 15, 17, or about 20 years old. No, I was in Tripoli. I was there. Oh my gosh, I have to I have to remember the time. If it was that we moved, we moved to Tripoli, and we liked this city. And my father was working my mom was trying to fix stockings and send us to school. And but it didn’t last too long. We were about 15 years old when we were going to one on one we did with professors not teachers, professors to teach us because we couldn’t go to school. They were not still you know English. They took their time to make schools for us. But it helped, it happened. You can’t you couldn’t go to college, let me tell you, you had to go to Sicily, Italy, and then people didn’t even care about the war. You just do your best.

A.M. 14:20

And after the war ended, you when did you meet your husband Richard?

Nonna (A.R.) 14:25

Okay, so when we moved, we finally decided that my mom said “you are 20 years old and she was 17 my sister”. She says we have to we have to go. We have to go to Italy, because oh what when you can take the thing is when I went to school I had to learn Italian, Arabic and English. I found that in Arabic very very difficult with the letters Yes, yes. But with the English it sounded it sounded more like a language and you can learn and we did, the two of us we would go to school to evening about. First of all to go to work and to do something to get some money and for Mommy and Daddy to run by it’s because the banks were closed so when we had no money and but but they were working and they were just going to do other jobs you know kind of fun jobs anything that they could could do anything that you can do like my father for instance, he was he used to make things like that but he said if I make these things, you pay me to some today. Yeah, but but it was also different, it’s what do you want me to do? What kind of was the boss you want instead of staying here and work in a you know, can you please have my wife but the wife was Italian and take care of her what clean the house. Oh yes I can do that, and Mom tried to start things to make the stockings you know when they will be on that shelves. She made money money to fix it to fix it. You know and I can explain like maybe even your mom doesn’t know you know the stockings that they put up. In this case…

A.M. 16:47

Oh the Christmas stockings.

Nonna (A.R.) 16:49

Yeah, yeah, but not that one, the one you put it on.

A.M. 16:53

Oh, the long socks?

Nonna (A.R.) 16:54

Yes, that go up there on knees. But but it was another job it is invented somebody invented it. So my mom she was making money too. So, what else?

A.M. 17:07

What year did you move to the United States or immigrate?

Nonna (A.R.) 17:12

Oh yeah, I’m getting United States well when I did, let me see. I went over there. Or when? but oh okay. So mom My mom was she is smarter or not? She says mom and Chi Chi (sister) you go to school now instead of going to fifth, sixth, seventh grade go go to learn how to do Arabic and English. Well Arabic is very difficult, but English we like them. So we want to we want to learn how to you know in open because I go back when we started to learn English. Arabic, We couldn’t even go here but English you get your needs and that saved us, because even if you even if you did start at something to tell you the truth. We will kind of go look into what you learn you learn you’ll learn English you’ll see and we did and sure enough we have a language okay I was about 20. I Was 20 Mom says 20 and 17 was Chi Chi so say okay, okay we go we go to Italy that’s all we have to do. We had two big Air Force Air Forces and I went to one and my sister went to the other one and she says don’t use it we need we need employees here can you speak English? Yeah, we can make it we have a professor teaching classes to us and then how to talk the Arabic. Arabic We said no I don’t think so i It’s too hard but the English we stuck with that so the sister and myself I went to these places they presented themselves and they say a few words in English but to tell you the truth, speaking English we had a good time but they did they were so cute. I don’t know what happened. I don’t know what else and then in other in other than we always say the angels. I don’t know. So when these of these American came they all to both houses and everything. But when Richard, for him for me, and for my sister happened the same thing, but for me, it says, You know what? I take you out every morning to pick you up to take you to a plane. And you know, so because you’re ready. I, you know, I liked somebody there in the Americans. And I said, Okay, he says, You come with me, because we’ve been married with kids. When I was a young woman, my sister was a young woman. And he said, Okay, but you I’ll take you to work every morning, and I take you home. And sure enough, I did. I did it… and Something worked.

A.M. 20:46

And what year was that? That you moved to the United States?

Nonna (A.R.) 20:56

1957, I got married 56′ or 55′ or 54′, I was 20. I think I was married.

A.M. 21:08

Okay. And did you have to go through like an immigration process? And like study American culture to become a citizen?

Nonna (A.R.) 21:16

No, no, America, of course, it is already on that time, I was all the English that we had in classes and the and the little bit, but we did. As soon as the American made open up their places there. We knew English. And you know, you probably didn’t know sometimes what we were saying. But it was, you know, it is required in you that words did you didn’t have to go to school, you know, you’ll have to look it up. They just looked at to make me go and my sister too. And the English was not that great, but, but we were, we were working with them. And then my sister met somebody in American, which was Italian descent, but he was an American. And I had mine, and I know was a sargeant. And I liked him. And he liked me and something. He was okay. It was lucky. We had luck.

A.M. 22:32

I’m glad to hear that. And What job did you work for in the United States? or did you have a job?

Nonna (A.R.) 22:41

Because when I came to the States, no, I was already married. I mean, I just got married, my sister got married to an American to American of Italian descent. But because mine was not Italian, he was like from Ohio. And I, I knew I got it You sense you’ve also have sense to see a person and you know that that is your husband, then you adjust to Catholic. Catholic, you have to be Catholic? If not we… can I can you ask me a question?

A.M. 23:31

So I see religion has impacted your life a lot. I’m really glad to hear that. And you had to experience lots of things growing up and learning all about it. But can you also tell me about how your life in the United States was, raising your family? And like, how everything came along and what places you moved to?

Nonna (A.R.) 23:54

Oh, yeah, so I’m taken to tell you the truth. Our husbands that when we got married. And I had four children. My sister had three um, we were not worried, because they husbands Americans, they knew what to do. You know, they just Yeah, I go better and my and my husband stays in the service. So I just went too, I just traveled a lot with him because he wanted to do is the 20 years of work. And how you say Man, look now I’m gonna have a loss, my sister as funds. He just just didn’t go any more I just I just with my husband, he wanted to do that 20 years service for the Americans and I went through it with him with my family, with my mother whenever they weren’t assigned, that’s why I was in the Philippines once I met him. We weren’t three years. That’s where Paul was born.

A.M. 25:28

Yeah, I remember you talking about the Philippines and you traveling a lot. I’m sure that’s impacted your life a lot. I just want to thank you so much for taking this time to talk about your life with me. I understand you faced hard times and you have trouble remembering the many aspects of of it.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Bibliography:

“Italy during WWII.” Life in Italy, 6 June 2020, lifeinitaly.com/italy-during-wwii/. https://lifeinitaly.com/italy-during-wwii

Zabecki, David. “How North Africa Became a Battleground in World War II.” Historynet, 12 June 2006, www.historynet.com/how-north-africa-became-a-battleground-in-world-war-ii/.https://www.historynet.com/how-north-africa-became-a-battleground-in-world-war-ii/

“Immigration and Citizenship | USAGov.” gov, 2019, www.usa.gov/immigration-and-citizenship.

Reflection: