Interview with King Eng, History 150 Spring 2022, Conducted by Sophia Whitfield, March 24, 2022.
Overview:
On July 7, 1937 World War II began in China when a local conflict evolved into a war between China and Japan. Although, at times, it seemed that China would have to surrender, they continued to resist. The Japanese went from village to village invading and causing harm to innocent people, directly affecting my grandfather being the reason for his need to leave China.The Chinese Nationalist government, commonly known as Kuomintang, was under the leadership of Chiang Kai-Shek, who was both a military and political leader. He worked to suppress the Chinese Communists, but when the Japanese invaded, he was forced to work with them. This so-called “alliance” did not work as Chiang Ka-Shek found himself fighting both Mao Zedong, the Chinese communist leader, and the Japanese. This whole conflict that led to the Chinese Civil War resulted in the Communists being victorious and Mao Zedong announcing the founding of the People’s Republic of China.
In the modern day, the People’s Republic of China has the highest population than any other country in the world. Being the most populated country makes it out to be a controversial nation due to many differing opinions and beliefs. However, despite other’s opposing views, nothing too severe has broken out since the Chinese Civil War, which brought many immigrants to the United States. In this interview, my grandfather, Dr. King Eng, responds to many questions that regard the immigration process and acclimating to life in a brand new country. He emphasizes that this country that offers so much opportunity to many is a place he calls home now.
Biography:
I interviewed my grandfather, Dr. King Eng. He was born on July 18, 1934, in southern China. He immigrated alone to the United States, arriving at Ellis Island, to escape the Chinese Civil War. Discrimination was a battle that he had to face, but worked hard to get his education. He eventually got a PhD in engineering, leading him to be employed by McDonnell Douglas Aircraft and IBM. Additionally, Dr. King Eng wrote a memoir for his future generations to become knowledgeable about their family history and to answer any outstanding questions. He goes into depth about his memories of life and family in China, his early years in America, school life, and how he made America his home. After many years of successful work and raising a family of five children with his wife, he is now happily retired and enjoys swimming and playing bridge.
Research:
Chinese Exclusion Act: In 1882, President Chester A. Arthur passed a law that would ban Chinese laborers immigrating to the United States, this was known as the Chinese Exclusion Act. This ban was to last 10 years. The reason for it was based on the belief that having this specific ethnic working group would disrupt the good order of businesses. If those who wanted to immigrate to the United States as a non-laborer, they had to get a certification from the Chinese government as proof that they were eligible to be granted entry to the country. This was extremely difficult to accomplish due to the loose definition of laborers in the act. Therefore, a limited amount of Chinese people could enter the United States. This directly affected my grandfather’s father while he was immigrating back in 1912.
Although the Chinese Exclusion Act was supposed to be a 10-year ban, Congress extended it for another 10 years under another name, the Geary Act. Under this new law, intense restrictions were made for Chinese immigrants and residents, forcing them to have a certificate of residence or they would be deported. The Geary Act worked to regulate Chinese Immigration going into the 20th century.
The exclusion acts were eventually lifted in 1943 when China was a member of the Allied Nations in WWII. Despite the laws being repealed, quotas of a yearly limit of 105 Chinese immigrants remained. As time passed, more acts regarding immigration were passed. The Chinese Exclusion Act was condemned by Congress in 2011/12.
Hong Kong:
During the Chinese Civil War, millions of refugees from all over China went to Hong Kong. The main goal of the Hong Kong administration was to provide economic survival and stability. In a journal article written by Roger Louis titled, “Hong Kong: The Critical Phase, 1945-1949,” it is stated “the refugees from southern China who were able to sneak into the colony swelled the population to around 3 million people by 1960.” My grandfather, Dr. King Eng, was one who came from southern China to Hong Kong after the communist takeover of mainland China and stayed for five months.
While all of the refugees were streaming in, Hong Kong was going through a transformation that makes it the society it is today. Three factors that resulted in this growth were the high population that resulted in low-wage labor, Hong Kong no longer being the entrepôt, (a place where goods are brought for import and export), for China’s trade, and multinational companies finding Hong Kong for a platform where they could outsource production of goods. Change was made, and the government provided public health and education, moved refugees out of unsafe/unhealthy conditions, ensured water and food supplies, built transportation infrastructure, ultimately creating a safe social environment. This all made the postwar economic and policy growth very successful for Hong Kong, making their refugee population content with avoiding the “New China” that was being created after the Chinese Communist Party’s victory.
Ellis Island:
As many know, Ellis Island was historically the most populated and active immigration station. It can be sometimes referred to as an “Island of Hope” as it represented the first step for immigrants to start a new life of opportunity. For others, it was an “Island of Tears” because of how dreams of a new life would be shut down with the denial of entry to the United States. For my grandfather, Ellis Island turned into an Island of Hope as he was granted entry.
There were three different classes of passengers. Those who were first and second class passengers did not have to go through the inspection process as it was assumed that because they could afford the first/second class ticket, they were affluent and unlikely to be a public charge, somebody who is unable to support themselves and depends on benefits that provide cash from the government for their income. Unfortunately for third class passengers, they experienced overcrowded and unsanitary travel conditions. Upon arrival, they were required to go through a detailed inspection that involved going through paperwork and health of the immigrant. For many immigrants, my grandfather included, this time was scary, confusing, and extremely frustrating.
Transcription:
Sophia Whitfield (SW) 0:02
All right. Hello, I will be interviewing my grandfather, for him to share his story on immigration from China to the United States. So, let’s get started. Alright, the first question I have is what was lifelike in China before you immigrated to the United States?
King Eng (KE) 0:30
That was right after the Chinese Civil War, when Chiang Kai-shek and Mao Zedong conflict was basically over, but you know, that was the toward the end of 1949. Then, I went to Hong Kong right after the takeover. Basically, about one or two months after that, we went to Hong Kong, that was 1950. In 1950, I stayed in Hong Kong, about five, five months, and then in June, around June time I came to the United States.
It was through Ellis Island. That was I stayed there, you know, I was afraid because they keep me there for two weeks. I had no contact with anybody. And, of course, my mother stayed back because only one at a time. And that was very restricted at that time.
So, my father was here, and he was working on a farm in New Jersey. Okay. But my uncles and my half-brother, you know, my father was on the second wife, because yeah, the first wife die. And he, he was here way before me, you know, he came here in 1912. That was a long time ago, 1912, that was over a century ago. But he come in and out, in and out. You know, went back to China and come back, went back to China at that time it was see the Chinese Exclusion Act at that time. So, immigration very, very restricted.
So anyway, I came here. When I get on Ellis Island, the first news I heard was the Korean War. That was, I think, is when I came out early July, you know, and the newspaper or, you know, of course, I couldn’t read. And that’s how I arrived to the United States.
SW 3:58
Very nice. Very nice. So, you mentioned that immigration was very restricted. So, you came to America by yourself, or did your brother come with you?
KE 4:11
No, no. Just me. One at a time.
SW 4:16
So, you had to slowly find your family when you came through Ellis Island.
KE 4:21
My father was here, my mother’s in China. And they came about 10 years later, you know, my brother and the other brother and my mother came there was another act. I forgot what the name of it, the Immigration Act that was relaxed. You could have family over here, and you can bring them over. And you, of course, you can support them. That was the rule.
Okay, I think was when, when they came, your mother was born your mother was married at that time. And yeah, I graduate of course I graduated from college at that time. And I, when your mother was here, your mother was born when I got my master’s in aeronautical was astronomic.
SW 5:35
Nice. So, you mentioned college, what made you decide to go to college in America? And how was that process of getting into a higher level of education with language barrier?
KE 5:56
Well, it was difficult. One of the things is, you know, when you don’t like what you do, at that time, what’s the other alternative? You try very hard, and try to get in college, I was so fortunate that I can get into St. Louis University, which is a Jesuit school. And at that time, I, you know, the priests was very nice to me, and, really, they helped me through this school.
Okay, in high school, it’s a kind of funny thing, you know, at that time, I, I would say in China Town, and in China Town and the high school I went to, is on Lower East Side in New York City. And at that time, that was a very mix. I would say, mixing both because mostly people from Lower East Side and New York City. They came from Eastern Europe, and mostly a good population was the Russian Jews who escaped, you know, from communism in Eastern Europe.
So, I feel very good about it at that time. The funny thing is one Jewish lady at the high school, I went to, mostly Jewish teachers, high school. She noticed that I have a little give that I’m very good in mathematics. And I got a good memory, when I see something, I can remember. And, so learning process is through my memory, and try very hard because I don’t like to work in the laundry. I don’t want to work in a restaurant. I just wanted a better job.
SW 8:53
Yeah, so you, we’ve talked about education, and you just mentioned jobs. So, how was finding employment in the United States for you as an immigrant?
KE 9:08
Well, when I graduate from St. Louis University, I got a degree in Aeronautical Engineering. And at that time, the Russian put up a little satellite called Sputnik. Okay, and that was when I was in school. So I said, aeronautical engineering. So, and that Sputnik gave me the incentive to get in there because I liked that job. Okay. I didn’t stay there too long because there was competition, and the first thing…talk about that, forgive me for not too continuous (not continuing).
One of the problem was a experience of lot of discrimination. But the fortunate thing is, some people I work with like what I’m doing, and they’re the one that try to keep me. So, when we lost the contract, that at that time we were working on, you won’t believe it, it’s called the Apollo Project. It goes to the moon. So, in mathematics, you have to compute trajectory, orbits and stuff like that, and how much, how do you get to the moon? There’s, you know, you have gravity on the moon, gravity on Earth, and then the spacecraft had to find its way to get there. So, I work under another mathematician, and his jobs to compute the trajectory for how to get to the moon.
The unfortunate thing is, I’d like that job very much. The unfortunate thing is… there was…I worked for a company in St. Louis, Missouri, that doing that job that the company’s name is McDonnell aircraft, not McDonald hamburgers, okay, McDonald aircraft. But we lost the contract to a North America something something you know, that was another company competing for the Apollo Project. And they lay me off and I went to grad school and got my other degree. I end when your mother was born, I worked for a college, engineering college course, called Stevens Institute. And from there, I got my, I worked there and got my PhD at the same time. And I worked there for about eight years.
And then…after I got my PhD, I worked there for another year. So I decided I need more money. I worked, and IBM at that time hired me. And I stopped working for IBM and I retired from it, then, I think in 1997, I retired. I’m retired long time ago. And I enjoy every minute of it. And I love my job. And they give me a decent retirement. Don’t have to worry about things. That’s how I got there. And I I bring up a wonderful family. As they all graduated from college. And now 12 of my 15 grandchildren already graduated, and to the remaining two in college.
SW 13:59
Yes, me being one of them.
KE 14:05
And I love it. And I enjoy every minute of it. And yeah.
SW 14:13
So I have a couple more questions left. You mentioned raising a family of five kids. My mom being the second oldest, how was managing your job with raising five children?
KE 14:33
Yeah. My wife, I met her as she was born over here. You know, native American [meaning born in the US], and she’s a very good manager. So I make the money and she manage it. Okay, I’m not a good manager, but I like my job. And you know, of course, in the process of working, I experience a lot of discrimination. But somehow that that’s what’s so wonderful is that this country, even though there’s a lot of discrimination, and there are enough people in there notice what they can use you for and give you a decent job. I’m one fortunate guys, that always meet some of those people along the way all through my life.
SW 15:58
Could you touch on, if you feel comfortable, about how that discrimination towards you in the workplace looked like?
KE 16:08
Well, the workplace somehow in the technical community is not that much, is hardly any discrimination. But people, all the people of course, you know, you don’t just stay in that little group. Okay. The discrimination is from everyday living more or less. There’s a lot to be elaborated on, in like housing when I worked in St. Louis University, work in St. Louis, Missouri. Okay. And then, of course, when in Brooklyn, when we were there, in the area we live in, where Popo lived in there’s a lot of immigrants. European immigrants.
Let’s see if you… it’s very hard to describe all those things that people say to you and to the you and humiliate you throughout the everyday life, like you know is not all the time but if you live in certain area, you are very welcomed. Like right now, you know, the group I play bridge with, and they really enjoyed my company.
I experienced a lot discrimination, okay, throughout my life. But not in the technical area, not in my workplace. The people I work with, I work for, they really welcomed me as a team. Yeah, and throughout that, I went to a lot of places. You know, I worked I worked for IBM for as a company about 27 years total. Okay.
They sent me from upstate New York, Binghamton area to Virginia, and from Virginia, I got an opportunity to teach in a minority college, which mostly is a black college, and that’s how I met your father. How my children met your father. There’s lot of a nice moments and when I do that. Teaching the black college for one year, and IBM let you do that. (inaudible)
At that time, IBM has a program called: Faculty Loan Program. They loan, a person with high education to teach in the minority college for one year, but IBM will pay you the regular salary and all the moving expenses at that time. And I was selected to go to North Carolina for one year, that was 1977. Later on, when I come back, I stayed there one year. That’s in Greensboro, North Carolina. When I come back to Virginia, I got another chance to teach another black college. That’s Howard University in Washington DC for another year. Okay, that was almost 10 years later. After I finished that year, I come back, I work some more at IBM and I find a job in England. IBM sent me a job in England. And I stayed there for three and a half years, In England. And that was a very good experience. When I come back, I worked for another year and then I retired.
SW 21:39
So, sounds like you got to travel and experience many different environments to live and work in. I just have one last question for you is that if you were to give your younger self, one piece of advice, what would that advice be?
KE 22:03
Well, if you like what you do, go after it, and make up your mind. Don’t let the little *inaudible* things bother you. Focus, you have to focus what you do, and things along the line don’t bother you.
And of course, you know, I must say that I really enjoy the life over here and I’m very fortunate. And to be…I’m not the Chinese anymore. I’m an American, and this is my country. Why? There’s opportunity here. No, matter. And you look at people I mean, that’s what makes you so unique. You look at every corner in the world has people over here. So those people you know, there’s a saying that, what was it? The smart one and the bright one move away what they don’t like and the conservative one stay back. The joke is that those stayed back are mostly mediocre. I mean, it this is a joke. But you have to have opportunity and a way to get here. Getting here, I don’t know how my family manipulate to get me over. Okay, I I don’t know that. But like, I’m here. And I basically I know some detail and I have written something in my memoir abot how I get here. And yeah that’s it, I’m so happy here.
SW 24:40
Yes. Well, I’m so glad that I was able to interview for my class. Thank you so much for taking time to do this. Yeah, so I’m going to stop recording now.
KE 24:55
Okay, yeah.
Reflection:
Interviewing my grandfather was so rewarding as it gave my a stronger sense of connection to my family’s history. I grew up aware that he had a rich history and worked hard for where he is today, but actually getting to discuss his story with him and asking personal questions about it allowed me to have a better understanding of how life was like for him. It is eye-opening to think that because of his immigration and educational and work path, I am living the life I am today. I definitely feel that having the opportunity to learn more about one’s past allows one to have a greater sense in themselves in their own story.
Follow-Up Commentary:
The interviewee, Dr. King Eng, approved the transcript on April 17, 2022. No changes were requested.
Interview Technology and Process:
This interview was held over zoom while I recorded it on March 24, 2022. I was located in Harrisonburg, VA, while my interviewee was located in Northern VA at the time of the interview. The recorded audio file was converted to an mp3 file and saved on to my computer. Otter.ai was used to transcribe the interview, and I went through and manually edited the transcript.
Bibliography:
Interview with King Eng, History 150, Spring 2022, Conducted by Sophia Whitfield, March 24, 2022.
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