Interview with Mannah, Vietnam War: From My Grandfather’s Perspective, Hist 150 Spring 2022, Conducted by Brandon McKinney, 2022 March 24.

Overview to Social Change Interview:

A main theme covered in my interview is how the draft worked for the Vietnam War and the impact my grandfather’s time in Vietnam had on his life and that of his family. He was drafted and had to leave behind his family without choice. A few things we talked about was how the training worked when he was in it.

We then talked about what his camp was like in America but also in Vietnam when he was there. He shares fun stories about animals, food, and friends to help shed light on what was a rather dark time. He talks about the strategies they took in war and the experiences he has when he was in the battlefield. Being that he was my grandfather, there are personal jokes mentioned as well between us that hold a big significance in our life.

You can see many other stories like this if you look in the Military section of the website. There are also many interviews if you look up the tag “Vietnam.” There are numerous people who have similar experiences to that of my grandfather since the Vietnam War greatly impacted his generation. There were numerous people that got drafted in the same war as my grandfather and share very similar stories. While some may not be as “happily told,” as my grandfather was, they still will be just as interesting. My grandfather likes to find the light in it and not focus so much on how bad it could have been.

If you are looking to read an interview about the Vietnam war and how it impacted an individuals life, then you are in the right place.

Interviewee:

I interviewed Mannah, my grandfather. Mannah is on my mom’s side of my family and has been a big part of my life. He served in the Vietnam War, where he was drafted when he was around my age. This interview talks about his experience in the war and how it impacted his life.

Research:

Transcitption::

BM: Thank you so much for joining me today, Mannah, how are you?

M: I’m doing well. How are you doing Brandon?

BM: Doing pretty good. I can’t complain. So to start off, before we get going, I just want to ensure that I have consent to is this interview on a public website.

M: You do.

BM: Perfect. So my name is Brandon, I am a freshman musical theater major. And I’m speaking today with my grandfather, who will be referred to as Mannah. My brother came up with a name when he was a kid. So don’t ask me the meaning because I could not tell you it. And it’s a little weird, because that is far from your name Mannah. So quite funny. Anyway, I’m very thankful to call you my grandfather and say you’re a veteran, because you served in the Vietnam War when you were around my age. Today, we’re going to dive deeper into the Vietnam War, and learn more about your story and the changes we have seen in the draft and the military over time. So are you good to get started now?

M: Sure, go right ahead.

BM: Perfect. So to start off, I know that you were drafted. So I want to hear a bit about how the draft worked, how you found out like how old you were and how you found out, you were drafted.

M: Alright, there has been drafts and all wars, but in 1964. They reinstituted the draft for Vietnam War. And what you had to do was register, as you have to do now about 30 days before you turned 18. And then you would wait and they would call you for physical where you would go down to an area where they would give you a physical to make sure you were physically fit to be inducted into the army, should you be drafted.

They had classifications that one a knee meant that you were able to be drafted for F meant no, you were not. And they had other classifications for conscientious objectors, those who for religious reasons, did not want to fight. And oftentimes they might be drafted, but put in a non combat role or something like that. So I went through all that procedure when I was nearly 18 years of age, I entered college after graduation, from high school, and I got married in 1968. Well, I’ve been in college for two years, and I decided, probably not the best decision I ever made to drop out full time and go part time. Now there was the ability for those people who were in school at a full time basis, not to be drafted, they will differ from the draft. So if you were in school, doing well, you would not have to worry about the draft for the four years that you were in school or till age 24. Well, when I dropped out after my sophomore year, and went started going in the evenings, part time, it made me a non full time student. So I got a letter explaining that I was eligible for the draft. And then one day, my wife your grandmother, yep. picked me up from work crying. And I said, Well, what is wrong? The reason I had dropped out full time was to work full time so that we can make a little money to outfit our apartment and stuff. She said you got your letter inducting you in to induct you into the army.

BM: Wow.

M: And so we went home. We talked about it and all of that. So on June 1 1969. I went down to the main post office in Richmond and was inducted into the United States Army then was put on a bar sent to Fort Dix, New Jersey for basic training. After basic training, I went to Fort Polk Louisiana for advanced training. They are part of the basic training you did is they test you to find out what you might best be adapted to do. One day I was called in and they said how would you like to go down to Alabama to learn to fly helicopters we’ll l send you to warn officer school and then you will go to flight school to be a helicopter pilot. But then they added to turn off. After all the training you will be required to stay in the army three more years. Now as a draftee. I was only required to be in there two years and that includes the training and everything. So I clearly said no, thank you. So I went through my basic training and then went to AIG in Louisiana. To learn to be an NC treatment and the United States Army.

BM: So when you’re at basic training and later advanced training, were there people who

did not like make it through? Do they have sort of like a cut process and send people home or once you were there.

M: They had they had a cut process, they called it recycling someone, they gave you one chance that you couldn’t make it to be recycled, which meant you started over again, and then they would let you out with a less than honorable discharge of from the service. And we had people that were like that one interesting story is, we had one young man who was in our basic training company. And one day he disappeared, we didn’t know what it happened to. And later, we found out, they found out that he was a golfer, and they pulled him out to join the army golf team. So instead of going through all the training, and he went straight to become a RMA golfer, in other words.

BM: Wow.

M: That went on, but they recycled you through. And again, if you didn’t make it the second time, then you were cut from it. They emphasized in basic training. One is a lot of knowledge of the military, customs, all of that, but also physical training they want to do in the best shape you could ever be. And so things like having to carry somebody up to the chow hall or on your back, and then go through the lab have to go through monkey bars and stuff like that. That was all part of getting from your where you stay to the chow halls.

BM: Wow. How long did you have to stay at training?

M: I was in basic training for eight weeks. I went in again, on June 1 on July 4, I got my first leave, I was able to fly back to Richmond and be with my family and wife for the weekend and then went back and then didn’t get any more leave until such time that left for Vietnam.

BM: Gotcha. Did everybody go through the same training no matter what their job was going to be:

M: There’s something called an MOS, which is a military operation service or occupational service rather, and what it does through the tests and they think, what would you be good at in the military traveling a tank, shooting artillery, sitting behind the desk, typing on a typewriter, being a medic, any number of occupations, they tried to figure out what you were best for. So all of that went on during they went to basic training and then you graduated, and they sent you to the advanced training was what your MLS was going to be. Mine unfortunately turned out to be an infant treatment. So I was sent to what I call the hellhole of the United States of Louisiana for nine more weeks of training.

BM: That is awful.

M: Yes, it was. I felt the same way. Only in between the time I was sent to ait and before advanced ait, so I didn’t see my family away for nine weeks. One interesting factor we found out later, anyone who had graduated or had any college education was sent down to Fort Polk for the infantry. So we found that to be very interesting, we felt like well, maybe they didn’t want to be real dummies. So that’s what happened in an AIt they gave you more advanced training in what you’re going to do. So we went on the new verse, we learned more by firing different weapons. We went on escape evasion course for two days where you were tracked by others who opposes the enemy and if they call it you they put you on appeal that your camp and and tortured you and stuff like that just to get used to what it was gonna be like. We ended it by having a week in the field where we acted like we were in combat and learn to repel from helicopters and that type of thing.

BM: So that’s insane. Did it end after that nine weeks.

M: I was sent home for three weeks of leave with the orders report to Oakland, California for assignment in the Pacific. They didn’t tell me I was going to Vietnam. They just said report to Oklahoma. I mean to Oakland California for assignment and in the Pacific. Then when we arrived there, they put us in a large airplane hangar kept us locked in until like we boarded airplanes to hit for Vietnam.

BM: Wow. And did you know anybody else that had been drafted?

M: I knew the people that had gone with me. From basic training into ait, only one person who was from Lady Smith, Virginia left with me for Fort Dix and wound up going down to Louisiana with me as well. But when I got to Fort Meade got to Oakland, California. I knew no one that I had trained with or anything like that.

BM: Well, and did you have any sort of communication? While you’re at training, or even at war with family members back home?

M: We were able to a training call home once a week after the first three weeks? Ah, and then same thing in ai t. Then once we got to Oakland, we were able to call home a couple of times, I think it was twice while in the airplane hangar waiting to be transported to Vietnam.

BM: Gotcha. And when did you find out you were going to Vietnam.

M: Once I got there.

BM: Gotcha. Wow and you didn’t have a choice?

M: Let me I’m glad you asked. And let me go back and say one thing about the trail. Like I said, you weren’t you were drafted for two years, if you joined the army. That was three years. However, if you joined instead of being drafted, you had the ability to pick what your job you wanted in the army. So oftentimes, those who knew they were going to be drafted would go ahead and join or you could join the Marines you can join the airforce it or you can join the Navy. And then you could pick more or less what job you would have in that branch of the service God. So I had no other options have to arrive in there, I was headed to it to be what we call a grunt, which is a ground Army soldier.

BM: Did they treat those that chose to be in the war differently than those that were drafted?

M:  No, once you get to basic trade if you were treated like dirt, everybody didn’t matter who you were, where you came from, what color you were anything like that you were all treated the same as dirt, you’re not worth the time, but in their opinion. You were every company, when they first started was told the same thing. Y’all are the worst looking recruits I’ve ever seen in my life. I don’t think we’ll ever make soldiers out of you.

BM: I’ve seen spent a lot of time watching videos of basic training different things. And it’s really, I mean, terrifying to say the least. And I just was wondering, I see watch a lot of videos and it’s a constant, you know, screaming in the face. Did you ever do water training at all?

M: Point of order training? No, no, the only thing we did water wise was in when we went out for that weekend in ait? That was water, we had to go through a river to go through. But as far as water training like this Navy SEALs do and things like that. No, nothing like that.

BM: So I think we can talk a little bit about your time and Vietnam. Because you’ve already done a lot of lead up which is nice. So, I think I just want to start off with just a simple thing. Is there any like sort of story that one big standout story you would want to tell of your time in Vietnam? That kind of highlights a lot of what you experienced? And if not, that’s okay.

M: But no, no, no, there is. A couple of things. One is, contrary to popular belief. We don’t have a lot of large battles in Vietnam, there were small skirmishes. And I was stationed in the central highlands, which is in the mountainous region of Vietnam. So one of the one story I can start off with when I arrived in Vietnam, I went through two more weeks of training, which basically amounted to the dad drill sites and saying, forget every damn thing they told you. Back in the States. We’re going to tell you how it really is over here, that type of train. So I thought that I was in good physical shape, I will have to say that excellent physical shape. However, after I got to my company, which was the Fourth Infantry Division, we had to go on patrol. And it was up the side of the mountain. And these mountains were not like you’re climbing Mount Everest, they were more like, around Charlottesville, the Blue Ridge, mountains, that type map.

I thought I was going to die, the best shape I was in was not a match for that man. Grid trees, I was grabbing dirt, I was grabbing anything I could to try to get up that mountain and look at those old timers, as we call them. We were newbies. They were old timers, how easily they could do it. I thought, I’ll never be like this. Well, part of the problem I found out later was the height of the mountains to the oxygen level was not as great as it would be on flat land and stuff like that. So I had not yet adjusted to that. But when I got to the top, I said, Oh, somebody please find me a new job.. Because I don’t think I can do this. I was worn out. And then after months of doing that you became used to it and stuff. Some interesting things that happened in Vietnam, There was boredom, a lot of boredom. We were a in our infantry group. We were flown by helicopter out to certain areas, we then would go on patrols for 234 weeks of an attack through the mouth rooms in the jungle. And then we would go back to base camp to stay for a week. So we were constantly on the move. Unless you encountered the enemy, then you didn’t. You had a lot of idle time on you set up on guard duty you did this, you did that I read a lot of books over there’s a matter of fact, because of the apple tapped, but right before Easter in 1970. We were on patrol and hit by a sniper who shot one of our people in our platoon

for the next 13 days, not necessarily the same sniper. But someone picked off, only one person died, but 13 elders were wounded during that 13 day period during that time.

One of the other interesting things that some people ask did you kill anybody? Well, that’s one of the things you really can’t answer for most people, because when you came into combat, what you did is tried to put as many bullets into the area where you thought they were as possible. So everyone put their guns on automatic us tore up the vegetation. And then you went in and see if you had hit somebody it did a body count. So that’s why it’s so hard to say. Or I could easily say I never put my sights on any one individual pulled the trigger and took their life may have but it would have been in one of those skirmishes that we had were where the error occurred. So we ran into that many times. And but they weren’t large battles, they would last we call them a firefight they would last maybe an hour, even less a half hour sometimes where we were in, in north in the central highlands are in being the smaller the army of the North, the mid north Vietnamese and the Viet Cong we ran into Vietcong were guerrilla fighters every once a while, but we ran into more regular army from North Vietnam than we did.

One thing I will say it’s interesting is the animals that are over there. We had one man in a company not my company, but another company, who one night on a listening post out away from everyone else listening for the enemy. He was with a companion, and he was drugged off by a tiger and killed Hmm. We have what was called the two steps snake over there, the bamboo Viper they called it that because they said if it pitches you don’t take two steps and then you would follow the mosquitoes were terrible over there. The weather and being in the in the mountainous region. It was very hot. But at night it got really cool and the rainy season which began in April. You stay wet the entire time because of rain and stuff like that. So if you got any injuries or anything like that they were hard to heal because they stay wet so long.

BM: Would you say that’s what caused your snakes? Are we can we blame policies for that?

M: No, I had that here snakes long before, back then we saw two snakes the whole time I was there. One was in a band booth. The second I was I had taken a break and was sitting back on the trail and there so I’m sort of going through the bamboo and the others back at base camp one night we were watching a movie and one came into the building where we were watching the movie it did buy the dog the dog one of them started messing with it and it didn’t bite the dog.

BM: Right. I another thing that interests me is what kind of support did you get like and meal form and like meals and more ammo and different types of stuff?

M:  During basic and ait we will supplant the regular green fatigues to where you head to your laundry and that stuff. Once you got to Vietnam, you wore jungle fatigues. Now, as I told you, we used to helicopter out and stay on patrols for two weeks to a month. Oftentimes we will the same clothes. We are resupplied with clothes. We wore jungle fatigues. They were loose fitting green fatigues that drag quickly when wet. As a matter of fact, I told you we stay wet during the monsoon season. We had poncho liners that if you wrapped him around you at night and you slept you woke up dry in the morning to your body heat and that on July it helped to dry you out and stuff. Thing is it all clarified to us they weren’t always new, they are functional clothes and they were critical.

But they weren’t told stuff they were in good shape. And I’d say that’s the was the condition after being a month of wearing them out in the jungle though, that they were in such good shape of ammunition and weapons, things like that were supplied to us. Helicopters brought major supplies so they brought it, we had to cut what we call an LC Laindon area where the helicopter could land in the jungle, and then they would bring in the clothing, the food, the weapons, all that kind of stuff. The food we ate was supplied with we’re mostly Kay rash of sea rations. Now these were boxes that contain a can of meat can prove I can have some unrecognizable edible substance of subtype some crackers some cigarettes and it and a little gadget cola p 38. Which was a little can opener that used to open everything those you heat it up. they also supplied you with these tablets that you set on fire and use those to heat up the food and stuff like that we also what they call today MREs– Meals Ready to Eat we have what was called works and they were freeze dried foods that were just heated up water and poured it into squeezed them up and then you ate that and occasionally particularly around curse us and around Thanksgiving they brought hot food out feel the helicopters

and stuff like that but we’re well supplied with well sometimes it was slow getting the supplies because the helicopters could not fly the foggy conditions or if it was severe rainfall and so sometimes, we might get very close to running out of food before we were supplied I never ate it but some people in our company had killed monkeys and ate those while

we were over there when they were running short of food stuff like that. Plus, it was there were banana trees and stuff like that, I know you heard the story but I tried to get some bananas down or some coconuts I can’t remember which it was now, I went to chop the tree down they fell on top of me, I wasn’t a  great woodsmen back in those days. We were well supplied. They gave us everything that we needed to sustain ourselves and we carried everything we need in a backpack which we call the rucksack so everything we carry was that we got air mattresses asleep on at night. They supplied us with some hammocks that were just basically some netting the strong between two trees, because in the mountains, it was hard to find a flat place to sleep on as well. Right. But we were supplying the will with that.

BM: Gotcha. And did you have any sort of communication while you were in Vietnam?

M: Yes, our letters, we hear it sent back and forth. And I’m glad you again brought that up, because that’s what we got some of our food, we were allowed to receive packages out in the field. Again, they the mail and package be brought in by helicopters … get them. So your grandmother, my parents, friends would send me packages, that we would have cookies and cakes, stuff like that, that we thought was a real treat. We shared them with everybody. all at one time, I had your mother’s and your grandma’s and your frying pan. And we took turns carrying that around and we use it to cook some of those sea rations and to try to make some meal that was palatable is that one of the stories I always tell about that I brought back from Vietnam was a distaste a great distaste for fruit punch. Because the water we had, you had to put purification tablets into it. It made the water tastes like that. So they would send us Kool Aid. And we would put the Kool Aid into the water, which would help to kill the bad that taste I drank so much punch kool aid that I never want to see any of any type ever again. But that was some of the things that we got to from support from family and friends who sent us letters, they were very valuable to us getting a letter from home. And we were able to write and send letters back home. But there was no place where we could make phone calls back home or anything like that.

BM: How long did it take, you know, for the letters to get to and from?

M: Probably about two weeks, you had to the people sending us letters had to go through a Pacific post office box. And so letters were sent to that they were sorted and then they had to go to Vietnam then they had to be sent sorted and sent out to the various companies wherever they weren’t so so it took about two weeks to get a letter or a package from home. And probably about that long for one to get back home from us too as well. Gotcha.

BM: What uh, one other question I have is, did you have a nickname? While you were serving?

M: Did you know I was just known as (Real name). And then later when I made the sergeant did everybody say Hey, Sarge? Hey, Sarge, that kind of stuff.

BM: Oh, so you did end up making sergeant?

M: Uh, yes, I started out as a private like everyone else.And then I finally made it up to sergeant and I was the squad leader for him. 16 machine gun squad. So all of us all six people who two of which were gunners carry the M 60. And the other four were ammo bears who carry the ammo for an M 16. Machine gun. Gotcha. And were y’all kind of taking a few steps back.

BM: Were you trained since you didn’t know that you’re going to Vietnam before did the training? I mean, you said you got to the field. And they said this is how it actually is. But did they train you to fight certain like the North Vietnamese did you have to train a certain like, learn new things to fight them versus?

M: Yeah, because this was this was unlike a conventional war. This was again, like guerrilla warfare, where you might come on the enemy and they might be 25 feet away from you by the time we finally saw because of the thickness of the jungles and all that, you learn guerrilla fighting, how to instead of just you know, having a battle land where there they are over there. 100 yards in here you are, you weren’t mixed in with each other, that type of thing. One of the interesting things about the training you went through, it carried over it through my job after I left the military was in the army, they train you to kill. Police officers are trained to last shoot someone as a last resort in the army. If you’re in the infantry, you’re trained your number one job is to kill somebody. So that is what they trained to do either hand to hand or with a baonette.

 

Technology:

This interview was conducted over zoom. It was very simple to record the audio and then transform it into a new file. We set a time and date and then went forward with our zoom call.