Interview with Sue Hoeft, History 150H Spring 2022, Conducted by Madison Latiolais, March 26, 2022. 

Overview: 

In the summer of 1945, Nazi Germany and Japan formally surrendered, marking the end of World War II. In 1946, U.S. troops became tasked with restoring order in both countries. The rise of military bases in Japan and Germany rose up until the Cold War with the intention of “keeping the peace.” Around the same time, women were allowed to serve in all branches of the military. This law, however, was very restrictive, and the majority of women who joined were only allowed in nursing or administrative positions up until the 1970s. Finally, President Harry S. Truman passed a law, and women were allowed to train with their male counterparts. Though women could eventually train with other male soldiers, women did not have total freedom to serve in positions, like ground combat roles, until 2013. 

Still, in 2022, women are seen being mistreated in the military. While the mistreatment and sexism need to be addressed, it is not stopping the increasing number of women serving and even receiving combat action badges. Sue Hoeft was one of these women that were a force to be reckoned with. Sue served on a military base in Germany from 1976 to 1979  and witnessed the integration of women in the military firsthand. In this interview, Sue speaks about her time in basic training and her roles in the military. She also shares her experiences and obstacles as a woman and even while pregnant during her time in Europe. It is very important to highlight the accomplishments and obstacles of women in the military to encourage more diversity and change in the future. 

Biography:

My grandmother, Sue Hoeft, was born into a military family on an army base in Japan in 1958. She traveled across Europe with her parents and two siblings before settling down in Dunkirk, New York. With the experiences gained from traveling with her family, at 18, right after graduation, she found herself joining the military in 1976. Sue was expecting and received a role in mechanics, which involved being available 24/7 for any type of maintenance support needed for trucks, etc. When Sue arrived at basic training, she was told that her group would be put into men’s boot camp. Men’s boot camp typically tested if one was physically fit for combat situations. After basic training, she was awarded the First Stripe (PFC) and recognized as one of the top three of 250 women completing U.S. Army basic combat training. PFC, Private First Class, is a rank typically given after a year of service to recognize higher responsibility and overall strength when received straight out of basic training. After two years of serving, Sue found out she was pregnant. She continued to work grueling schedules but later had her first and only child, my father, in 1979. Shortly after, she left the military a year before her tour was over and moved to Helm, Pennsylvania, and later Waynesboro, Virginia. Sue felt it was necessary to leave the military as she had no family in Germany to assist her in taking care of her child. While raising her son, Sue completed an associate’s degree and graduated with honors at Yorktowne. Sue is currently working as an Administrative Assistant to the Associate Athletic Director at the University of Virginia. 

Research:

I decided to research the topic of women and their roles in the military, with a preferred time period of the 1970s. I had very little knowledge about the military beforehand but quickly discovered that the 1970s was a very influential time period for women who wanted to join combat roles. I also researched women’s activism to include more diversity in the military and the problems women still face today from a military perspective. The first source was about how military roles for women had improved but how women still faced challenges. More and more women are seen gaining combat positions but not receiving the same benefits as men. For example, women aren’t getting equal pay compared to their male counterparts. The second source is a research article debunking sexist remarks to prevent women from enlisting. Many shared opinions claim that women are ill-equipped to handle combat roles and wouldn’t be able to handle the workload physically. The article does an excellent job of encouraging rethinking traditional norms and believing that women can do the same as men. The last report covers women’s activism to list restrictions and gender barriers in the military. The author describes how in the 1970s, several servicewomen protested and fought to knock down several walls leaving a few leftovers in 1978. Though the servicewomen knocked most barriers down, the last gender barrier wasn’t taken down until December of 2015, finally allowing women to be considered equal to the other male soldiers. Researching these topics assisted me in understanding what my grandmother went through as women were beginning to be introduced into combat roles in the military. 

 

Transcript: 

 

Madison Latiolais  0:03  

Hi, my name is Madison Latiolais. I’m interviewing my grandmother, who will go by the name of Sue. And I’m going to be interviewing her about her time in the military. So to start off, can you describe a little bit about your childhood or life before enlisting?

Sue Hoeft  0:22  

A little bit about my childhood: um, I guess we’re talking about the military. And that was my childhood. My father was in the military; we traveled all over the world. Not all over the world, mostly nationwide in Europe, France, Germany, predominantly Germany. But that’s what prompted me to go into the military in the first place because I just love that way of life. 

Madison Latiolais  0:49  

All right, well, you answered my second question for me, which was what made you decide to enlist? Was there any other like specific things? Or did you just really enjoy, like the traveling and the experience of it?

Sue Hoeft  1:01  

All of it. And I will tell you that women are now well, um, military roles for women have it have improved. Women are now able, without exception, to enter all military occupations, if qualified, to meet the standards that are set forth by the military. Which means that women are now in without exception, in any role a man, a male soldier can be part of. And no, all women are no longer pigeonholed as they were when I went in the Army to administrative and nursing only. 

Madison Latiolais  1:47  

Oh, wow. The next question is, can you describe the enlisting process?

Sue Hoeft  1:54  

Sure. The enlisting process is normally you can go in the military if you are physically fit, and you pass the ASVAB test, which is basically an aptitude test that kind of culminates what you’re capable of doing thus far. So obviously, I scored high in administrative. 

Madison Latiolais  2:19  

Mm-hmm. 

Sue Hoeft  2:20  

But I didn’t want to do that. Because I was doing that in high school. So I thought, let me do something different. And my next highest score was in mechanical aptitude. So I thought, Okay, let me go. Let me try to be a mechanic; I could always use those skills somewhere. So that’s where I went in. And once you pass the ASVAB test, you pick your occupation; then you have to go to get your physical, and that’s a big thing. When I went, there was a girl who had gained five pounds over summer, and she was so excited to go in the military, and she had to lose five pounds, then go back to get retested again. 

Madison Latiolais  3:07  

Oh, my goodness.

Sue Hoeft  3:09  

very stringent on weight.

Madison Latiolais  3:11  

 Yeah. So the next question is going to be, how were your experiences in training for the military?

Sue Hoeft  3:19  

The training provides, I mean, the military provides excellent training. After basic, you go to school, and my school was eight weeks, in Aberdeen, Maryland to go to learn my mechanical, my mechanical skills. And then I was transferred to Germany. And I worked for a 586 Maintenance direct support, which meant you were on 24-hour notice all the time. You didn’t matter when the trucks broke down if you were in the rain or the mud, or you didn’t have weekends, and that’s not what I signed up for. [Laughing] Because when I went in, I knew that combat wasn’t going to be part of it. 

Madison Latiolais  4:08  

Yeah.

Sue Hoeft  4:09  

 Because again, when I went in, it was still females would not go to combat. Yeah, I didn’t have to worry about that. But when we got to basic training, they said, “Congratulations, ladies. You are going to be going through men’s boot camp.” And it was like, “oh, no, what does that mean?” 

Madison Latiolais  4:37  

Yeah. 

Sue Hoeft  4:39  

But you know, at the end of it, well, when you get to basic, they kind of test, and then the drill sergeant said that we’re going to test you to see how well you do in combat situations. To see if you are you’re mentally fit, physically fit, and if you can do things on your own, so let me see what oh god that with that entail, okay. So when, when we got there after you get your uniforms and get all your blood tests and everything, they take you, and they test you on everything to see where your starting point is. And that, at the end, they retest you. 

Madison Latiolais  5:28  

Okay. 

Sue Hoeft  5:29  

And yeah, so dramatic improvements because, you know, those monkey bars?

Madison Latiolais  5:37  

Yeah. 

Sue Hoeft  5:38  

Okay, that was one of the tasks, and I remember I made it three monkey bars, and I dropped. I dropped. But at the end of basic, I could do—Monkey Bar back monkey bar (forward). I could do it two times. And then I dropped. 

Madison Latiolais  5:54  

Okay! 

Sue Hoeft  5:55  

That was an amazing, amazing thing. And not only that, basic training takes you out of your comfort zone. You are no longer someone with your own opinions. You are a soldier. You are a soldier. 

Madison Latiolais  6:14  

Yes

Sue Hoeft  6:15  

And it’s a great it was a great discipline mentality. And I think that changed me the most I really, I thought I knew it all, had the world by the tail, I could do anything. Nah, that didn’t happen. That didn’t happen. So in the military and men’s basic training it’s quite different than from women’s most basic training. Okay, you have to qualify with weapons like an M-16 rifle, both day and night. You have to go through live-fire-out obstacle courses where they use real bullets. Um, what else did- you have to do survival training, you have to do self-defense, you have to learn first aid, gas chamber, and you have to go and bivouac training. bivouac means no tents. Which means the days were hot. And the nights were so so cold.

Madison Latiolais  7:14  

 Yeah

Sue Hoeft  7:16  

They were so so cold. And based on my experience, I pushed myself. I don’t know why I pushed myself. And at the end, I was one of three girls out of 250 that got their first stripe out of basic training. That’s pretty amazing. Because I remember the first, the first woman was a former Marine. Second one was a Native American long-distance runner. And then there was me. Then there was me.

Madison Latiolais  7:53  

Shows your hard work.

Sue Hoeft  7:55  

Yeah. So that was pretty amazing, actually.

Madison Latiolais  7:58  

Yeah. Now I know you want to go into the topic about gender bias. So and I understand by what you said that, of course, when you first enlisted that women were only able to go and jobs like nursing. So, could you describe like any differences you noticed between men and women during training or serving?

Sue Hoeft  8:22  

Absolutely. Especially during my time um here, I am a mechanic. And you got no preferential treatment. And even the other sold the male soldiers thought, “Oh, this is what you want it you need to carry your own load.” You know, there was never same-same treatment. But it was just their mentality that they did not like that. They did not like women in the military. And I was surprised by that. 

Madison Latiolais  8:54  

Yeah.

Sue Hoeft  8:56  

 But the only time I think I got preferential treatment was when I found out I was going to have a baby.  And I told you that we had grueling schedules. Like, again, you were on call 24/7. And when I when I found out I was going to have a baby; I didn’t want anyone to know right away that I worked with because I didn’t want to take any, “Oh, she’s gonna get preferential treatment. She’s gonna doesn’t have to work the hours we work.” So I didn’t say anything. And then my belly was starting to show a little bit, and my supervisor pulled me in and asked me, and I said, “Yes, I was.” But he said, “We want to move you to the shop office.” I had a lot of knowledge about trucks and parts, and that would be would have been a good fit. But I still had to work those hours with everyone else. You know, I was still there, part of that team. So it was the other soldiers, the male soldiers, that I noticed the bias. 

Madison Latiolais  9:58  

Yeah.

Sue Hoeft  9:59  

And when I found out I was gonna have a baby again, I was tired of that grueling schedule. I don’t know if it was the hormones or what. But, and even in even the politics of being that maybe I just had enough. And I was not in the United States close to family. And when I went out to the field, I didn’t know if I was going to go out one day, one week, one month, and I had no one to watch a baby. Yeah, so I decided to get out. And you let me just surmise everything. Being in the military was one of the greatest experiences of my life. I went in immature and naive, but I came out of it knowing that I could be just, I could be a soldier, you know, just as capable as a male. And I could be a partner with them side by side because I was physically capable. I knew the skills. And I think by the time I left, I was accepted as being a soldier. Not necessarily female, but just a soldier.

Madison Latiolais  11:13  

Yeah. So did you personally experience any type of gender bias while serving?

Sue Hoeft  11:21  

Yeah, from the other male soldiers. Yeah. That was that was it primarily. Oh, and then the community. Well, I spent my time in Germany; the community did not like female soldiers, the German people. Yeah. So we encountered that that was looked down upon. I was surprised by that. So.

Madison Latiolais  11:42  

Like, Can you describe like how you were treated? If possible, kind of like was it just, like odd looks? Did people talk about you?

Sue Hoeft  11:52  

It was the looks and the chatter, you know, after you left, you know, the pointing of fingers and that kind of thing. But it was just basically the stares. And then, one time, I had a conversation with a German person, and they told me that German people look down on female soldiers. 

Madison Latiolais  12:09  

Oh, wow. So you were told that directly? 

Sue Hoeft  12:11  

Yeah. Yeah. 

Madison Latiolais  12:17  

So, I know, you kind of mentioned this. But could you describe the differences, just like, overall, in general, like before and after you had your child? Maybe this can go into more how people treated you before and after they found out you were pregnant? 

Sue Hoeft  12:33  

Ah. Well, they didn’t say too much, then the other soldiers they work with didn’t say too much at that point. Because, as I mentioned, I had proved myself with them. And I knew that the office that my supervisor switched me to I could be I could be an asset there. If even if it meant getting parts for our soldiers to put the things together are working or making calls to the inspection station. So I feel like the only thing that a made accommodations for me was to move me in the office; I was treated just the same as they were.

Madison Latiolais  13:15  

Okay. Um, and then, so having my dad, of course, was that the reason that you left the military?

Sue Hoeft  13:26  

It was. It was because the rest of my tour for another year was still going to be in Germany. And I worked. Like I said, my schedule. I didn’t have anyone there to help with taking care of him. In case an emergency came up. 

Madison Latiolais  13:44  

Mm-hmm. Yeah, of course. And then so, after you left the military, would you say that you still experienced gender bias in your place of work today? Because I know you work at UVA (University of Virginia) now.

Sue Hoeft  13:56  

Oh no, not at all. There’s pride. There’s pride. There’s a lot of pride for myself. And people kind of respect that. They’re almost surprised that I went into the military. Well, that is maybe because I am 65 years old right now, but let alone a mechanic. Yeah, they’re impressed. They didn’t have the courage to go in. You know? 

Madison Latiolais  14:24  

Yeah. 

Sue Hoeft  14:25  

They didn’t have the courage to go in.

Madison Latiolais  14:27  

Exactly. Well, that is great. So that was all the questions I have for today. Thank you so much, and thank you for your service.

Sue Hoeft  14:36  

Thank you. You’re welcome.

 

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

How the Interview was recorded:

This interview was conducted over Zoom. The transcription was made by Otter.ai. All edits were made by Madison Latiolais. 

Bibliography: 

1. Robinson, Lori, and Michael E. O’Hanlon. “Women Warriors: The Ongoing Story of Integrating and Diversifying the American Armed Forces.” Brookings, The Brookings Institution, 6 Jan. 2021, https://www.brookings.edu/essay/women-warriors-the-ongoing-story-of-integrating-and-diversifying-the-armed-forces/. 
2. Kennedy-Pipe, Caroline. “Women and the Military.” Taylor & Francis, 24 Jan. 2008, https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01402390008437811. 
3. Roth, Tanya. “Redefining Women’s Place in National Defense: A History of Women in the Military: Perspectives on History: AHA.” Perspectives on History, American Historical Association, 22 Dec. 2015, https://www.historians.org/publications-and-directories/perspectives-on-history/december-2015/redefining-womens-place-in-national-defense-a-history-of-women-in-the-military. 
4. Burton, Kristen D. “Occupying Germany and Japan: The National WWII Museum: New Orleans.” The National WWII Museum | New Orleans, The National World War II Museum, 20 Oct. 2020, https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/united-states-occupying-germany-and-japan.   
5. DeSimone, Danielle. “Over 200 Years of Service: The History of Women in the U.S. Military.” United Service Organizations, The USO, 1 Mar. 2022, https://www.uso.org/stories/3005-over-200-years-of-service-the-history-of-women-in-the-us-military#:~:text=In%201948%2C%20three%20years%20after,a%20guarantee%20of%20equal%20opportunity.