Introduction to Interview
Back in the 1930s, 40s, and 50s life was very different. Changes [both good and bad] have taken place over these years that have changed life forever. Today, some of these social changes [social change, according to Southern New Hampshire University is, “change in human interactions and relationships that transform cultural and social institutions”] that we can most closely relate to is Covid-19. However, there is so much more than that. As Nana explains in this interview, she talks about social changes over her long lifetime during the past 100 years. She brings up topics such as World War II, the Great Depression, and the overall life experiences that she lived through. She is asked about broader themes such as Women’s Rights. She tells funny and fascinating stories ranging from her almost lighting her Brooklyn home on fire as a child to a very close call during World War II, practically saving her husband from dying on the beaches of Normandy. She tells battle stories of her husband when he was fighting in Italy.
To say that Nana has lived through a lot would be an utter understatement. She is 99 years old, born all the way back in 1922. Not many people are living at this age and are still as coherent and enthusiastic as her. She has a passion for sharing her life experiences, and an obsession with doing what she can to help out her family. Being the oldest and most wise in my family, she is without a doubt the perfect person to interview about what exactly has changed over the past 100 years.
Transcript:
SPEAKERS
Evan DeSousa, Nana
Evan DeSousa 0:02
All right, we are live.
Nana, how are you doing today?
Nana 0:06
Okay.
Evan DeSousa 0:07
Doing well doing well? Well, um, so this is our interview I’ll be asking you about, you’ve been through a lot. You’re, what? 98 years old now.
Nana 0:18
And next week, I’ll be 99.
Evan DeSousa 0:22
Big 99. So, this will be like an interview. I know you’ve been through a many years in your life, but 99 years young, that’s nothing. Um, so I thought you were the perfect person to interview and ask about your life what you’ve been through. I mean, since the Great Depression, World War Two, you’ve been through it all. So I thought you were the perfect person to ask this. So I’m happy you came out on would do this for me. So the first thing I’d like to start off with is, can you just tell me about your childhood and your early life? When were you born, where were you born? And that all that stuff, all the good stuff.
Nana 1:05
I was born in March 20, 1922 .
Evan DeSousa 1:13
1922
Nana 1:15
We lived in New York City. And my mother went to work. And I was brought up by a nanny little lady in the apartment house on the fourth floor. And then this nanny wasn’t very careful with me, because I went to the front window on the fourth floor, and I dangled out the window, waiting for my sisters to come home from school. Now, I could have fallen, but I didn’t.
Evan DeSousa 1:52
[Chuckles] No way! So how old were you at that point?
Nana 1:57
Three!
Evan DeSousa 1:58
You were three years old, dangling off the balcony?
Nana 2:01
Uh huh.
Evan DeSousa 2:02
Crazy Crazy. And you said, you’re in New York.
Nana 2:06
And I still remember that. Three, I think I was three years old, maybe almost four.
Evan DeSousa 2:12
I’m telling you. 96 years later, you still remember that [shocked tone in voice]. You have probably one of the best memories. Every year you’re always the first one to call me on my birthday. No one ever remembers before you. I’m telling you, you have the best memory for being 98 years old.
Nana 2:27
I still do.
Evan DeSousa 2:29
Very impressive. But um, so you said you lived in the city, right? In New York City, when you’re younger?
Nana 2:39
I was in New York City and then my mother and father they bought a home in in Brooklyn. We moved to Brooklyn and and one night during the night. I must have been about six years old. I got up to go to the bathroom. And I was sitting in those days we have a potbelly stove. And I slept right next to the potbelly stove. And I got up and I brushed against it. And the gas went on.
Evan DeSousa 3:15
No.
Nana 3:17
And I almost made the whole family die.
Evan DeSousa 3:20
[Laughs at how real she was being] Sorry I should not be laughing, that’s not funny.
Nana 3:23
I didn’t go back into bed. I went to sleep with my mother in the other room. And she smelled the gas because I woke her up and the fire engines came and and they tossed us all out of the house.
Evan DeSousa 3:42
Wow. Wow. So you didn’t even realize you hit the gas and your your mother smelled it? I guess.
Nana 3:48
Yeah.
Evan DeSousa 3:49
Wow. That is crazy. So how were like early on how are the conditions and how is the city different than it is now? Like what kind of changes have you seen since the past till this day?
Nana 4:03
Well, when I first moved to Cherry Hill it was all farms. Now it’s all built up no more farms. And lots of changes the the Verrazano Bridge went up that [New Jersey] Turnpike went up and a lot of changes.
Evan DeSousa 4:25
Was there was there like a difference in was it cleaner back then it was a dirtier back then in the city. Then you notice like any difference between like the cleanliness of the city at all? The same
Nana 4:40
In New York? No, it was pretty clean.
Evan DeSousa 4:44
It was good.
Nana 4:45
I remember dangling from the window I just saw that the trash people picking up trash.
Evan DeSousa 4:52
[Laughs at how much she loves the window story] Funny, but um, I so we’re gonna roll on to you said you live with Great Depression, right?
Nana 5:02
I think I was maybe eight or nine years old. I do recall that there was a big day used to send messages verbally, you know, they there was messages sent throughout the state aloud, they will, they will announce it. And I remember hearing them say that there was a big crash in the stock and the stock market. And people were committing suicide because they were so they lost all their money. But I was only about eight or nine years old. So, I do recall that.
Evan DeSousa 5:55
Do you remember where your parents working at the time where they did they have jobs?
Nana 6:00
Yes. My mother worked as a Furrier [Someone who deals with clothing, specifically fur]. My father worked for work for WPA [Works Progress Administration], that was they had jobs for people who didn’t have jobs, you know.
Evan DeSousa 6:16
So he helped people find jobs?
Nana 6:19
No. He went to look for a job in tech. In the WPA [Works Progress Administration], the I think it was [Franklin] Roosevelt. That, that said, the all people would be working. Like in construction.
Evan DeSousa 6:37
Yep. Yep. I heard. Um, so I was actually reading about the Great Depression, maybe an hour ago. And I saw that WPA is one of the things he created to help get the economy out of the Great Depression, help people get jobs and start working again, because the Great Depression was a really bad time for working the economy and all that. So that is really cool. How your your father, right?
Nana 7:04
Yeah.
Evan DeSousa 7:05
Your father worked in the WPA. But that was that was yeah, that was one of the groups he created to really help them get out of the Great Depression. Did you notice like, like a shortage of food at the time? Because I know, I know, it was hard to come by. From what I’ve heard at least, it was hard to come by food wise. So there’s like people rationing. Did you notice any of those? Those changes?
Nana 7:32
I don’t remember.
Evan DeSousa 7:33
Yeah, okay. Well, um, so, I guess we can move on, because you were young at a time. So we’ll move on to the World War Two, which you’ll definitely remember a lot better because you were older. But you said, Pop Pop your husband. He fought in World War Two, right? Pop Pop your husband, he fought in World War Two?
Nana 7:57
Oh, yes. He was in the infantry. And he was a sergeant.
Evan DeSousa 8:02
Sergeant, where he told me a little bit about that, like, where was you deployed to when? And you were telling me a story about you being married before the war the other day? And I think you could explain it better than me. But if you want to tell me a little bit about that, that’d be great.
Nana 8:21
Okay. I don’t know whether they knew that the war was going to, but they try. They were trying to protect themselves, the United States. So they had a draft. And they were drafting men from 18 years and up, and everybody had to register. And [your] great grandfather was classified 1A [Today, role for generally non-combat positions], because he was 18 years of age, he joined the National Guard’s. So when I married him, he was classified 1A that means he was going to be drafted.
Nana 9:10
But, War was declared. I was married November 30 [1941]. And more or less, December 7 [1941], [Pearl Harbor Day] war was declared. So they called your great grandfather that he had, he had to go into the service. However, I became pregnant and I appealed it. And he lasted another almost a year. And then your grandfather was born. And as soon as grandfather was born, he had to leave. But then there again, I tried to appeal it because your great grandmother, your great, great grandma. Mother, she had four children going into the service and I figured. So I thought, well, maybe he could be saved. But it was a no no. So he had to, he left the day after Christmas, after the grandfather was born. Then he was in the, his platoon that he was assigned to was going overseas. However, in February, his father died. So they pulled him out of that platoon so that he could go to his father’s funeral. And his entire outfit that went to Normandy was wiped out. So he would have been dead. But then when they want to send them to, to Europe, again, they couldn’t find his papers because they got misplace because of the his father being, you know, called him being called out of the service for a while. So he went, he stayed around from February to April. And, and he was coming back and forth. He was he was stationed not too far from home, and he would come home on weekends. Then in April, he went overseas to Italy. Okay. He fought the Germans.
Evan DeSousa 11:44
So he fought in Normandy, you said right, and then he also thought, months in Italy too?
Nana 11:50
He didn’t fight in Normandy he would have, but he pulled out, right. His entire outfit was wiped out.
Evan DeSousa 11:59
So he got he got really lucky there.
Nana 12:01
Yes, he got really lucky.
But then he was in. He was fighting the Germans. Yeah. And then he yeah. He was in a foxhole. And the, his person, the soldier that was next to him. He got killed. Your grandfather, your great grandfather got shrapnel wounds and it was blood all over himself that he went berserk. The the medics came and transported him to the hospital. And he had shrapnel wounds and damage to his ear. So then he was reassigned. Doing duty in the hospital, he didn’t go back to the front-lines, but that was after he had fought over a year.
Evan DeSousa 13:01
Yep. Yeah, I remember that story. That’s probably one of the first stories, I was so obsessed with pop pop telling me stories about the war when I was younger. And I remember specifically, we were at Navesink Country Club. And I was sitting next to the dinner table. And he was telling me that story about how his partner next to him got shot in the foxhole. He literally and physically dodged the bullet at that point. That is, I was shocked. Shocked to be, the only way to save for it is that is a great story. So um, I guess we can stay on this topic more, but more move to the homefront and what you experienced personally. So I did a little bit of research, and I saw woman in the labor force grew at 6.5 million more than there was previously in the war because all the men were away fighting. So people like you were needed to be in the workforce at home and your friends. I’m sure you knew people. So did you work at all? Are you taking care of the child at that time? Or did you know other people that started working at home because the men were away?
Nana 14:12
I was. I was a housewife. And I was I was raising two children, because I conceived while your great grandfather was waiting to be sent overseas. So I had your uncle Dennis. And I had your grandfather and Uncle Dennis. I had two children to raise and then there was rationing. And in order for us to get things that we needed, and we couldn’t afford to buy them, we had to go to the Red Cross for help.
Evan DeSousa 14:27
So did you know people that were previously not working in the workforce. And then as people started leaving the country, were they being implemented in the workforce because they were needed? Did you know anybody like that? Because I know that was a huge thing at the time from for women, especially because in the 1940s, there weren’t as many in the workforce. But after the war, that’s really what was a huge change. That woman started working more and it was like today, it’s, it’s completely even with men and woman, but that was like the turning point. Did you notice that?
Nana 15:33
No.
Evan DeSousa 15:35
But it was it was more of a gradual thing from when you saw?
Nana 15:39
I didn’t go to work until I moved to Cherry Hill.
Evan DeSousa 15:43
Okay. Um, well, so obviously, the war was like a horrible, horrible time. But did you know and notice anything good that came out of it? Was there any, like a sense of unity in the country when everyone came home? Was there any different changes that came in the wake of it? That you saw?
Nana 16:04
Well, there was a change in your great grandfather. He has post traumatic stress [disorder]. And during the night, he would scream. And what was good is that he came back alive!
Evan DeSousa 16:23
That is a very good thing! That was a very good point. Because I never would have met pop pop, he was awesome. I love pop pop. But um, yeah. So I think that’s all I got for you today for the interview. Is there anything else you’d like to say? Leave off with let people know?
Nana 16:47
Yes, it was a difficult time in my life. For the three years during the war was very heartbreaking. You heard of the friends dying in the war. And it was a pleasant thing when you saw when I went to the river front and your great grandfather came off of the boat [back from the war]. You know, and there was a lot of hugging and kissing and, and happiness.
Evan DeSousa 17:20
That was a day to remember. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming out for this interview. And I really appreciate your time. And I love you being a part of it. Thank you so much.
Nana 17:34
I love having you as a great grandson!
Evan DeSousa 17:37
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Nana 17:39
I’m so proud and so loving. And now I just adore my my whole family. I am a very lucky Nana, grandmother, and mother.
Evan DeSousa 17:53
Well, we are lucky to have you, Nana. And I really appreciate you doing this for me.
Nana 17:59
Thank you very much for having me do it.
Evan DeSousa 18:02
Yep. All right.
Nana 18:04
Love you very much.
Evan DeSousa 18:05
Love you too.
Nana 18:07
Bye.
Unknown Speaker 18:07
[END OF INTERVIEW]
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Research:
I decided to spend a majority of my time researching about the social change over her lifetime surrounding gender. Previously, I did not know too much about this topic and thought it would be important to inform myself about it prior to the interview. I found that men and women began to become more fluid between their roles in the workforce and at home. During the 20th century it wasn’t completely shocking to see a stay at home dad with the wife working. Before the 20th century, this was something that would simply not be accepted. Women had little role in the workforce compared to men. In fact, according to a statistic by MSU Denver, the female labor force grew by 6.5 million during WWII. This change on the home-front proved that women could do the same work at the same level that men did before this era. WWII was a huge and necessary turning point in the previously male gendered workforce. In 1944, during the war, 37% of women were employed. And in the defense industries, women employment grew by 462%. During the time the main reason for gender roles being transformed was because it was absolutely necessary for women to work at home while the men fought in the war. Without women working at home, nobody would be able to produce war supplies for the United States. In addition, the economy could not simply shut down now that men are not working. Women were able to take up these roles and work. This information helped me contextualize the interview and get a better understanding of questions that should be asked.
Bibliography:
Hartmann, Susan M. “Women & World War II.” Women & WWII | Camp Hale | MSU Denver, MSU Denver, www.msudenver.edu/camphale/thewomensarmycorps/womenwwii/.
McEuen, Melissa A. “Women, Gender, and World War II.” Oxford Research Encyclopedia of American History, 9 June 2016, oxfordre.com/americanhistory/abstract/10.1093/acrefore/9780199329175.001.0001/acrefore-9780199329175-e-55.
Goldin, Claudia D. “ The Role of World War II in the Rise of Women’s Employment.” Jstor, American Economic Association, Sept. 1991, www.jstor.org/stable/2006640?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents.
Follow-up:
On March 25th, 2021, I called back Nana and she gave me the approval to make this interview public. She wanted to thank Dr. McCleary for letting her be a part of my education and she said she really enjoyed doing this.
Technology used:
This interview was recorded on Zoom which was aided by my aunt (Nana isn’t the best with technology). And the transcription was made by Otter.ai.