Interview with CT, History 150H Spring 2021, Conducted by Caitlin Tully, March 11, 2021.

Introduction to the Interview

It is the dream of many people to immigrate to a country flourishing with economic and social opportunity. There are countless individuals-like me-who have their relatives to thank for immigrating to a more stable country and deciding to raise a family. However, immigration is not the easiest task. We know from the stories of our relatives that the pain of leaving their home still lives in a tiny part of their heart.

Many people immigrated to America with the expectation of immediately getting a job, raising a family, finding friends and living a happy life. Unfortunately, the “American Dream” is not what it is made out to be. The process of leaving your country and coming to a new one is difficult, scary and most times unpredictable.

Neale Donald Walsch once said “comfort zones are where dreams go to die.” I believe all immigrants, young or old, male or female, deserve to be recognized for their bravery in leaving their home and exploring the world in hopes to find a place flourished with opportunity.

Carol and I discussed her experience with immigration from Ireland to the United States in the 1960’s. My grandmother was alone on her journey to America, so I hope to explore how this process shaped her into the person she is today. I am very lucky to be as close to my grandmother as I am. I’d consider my grandparents house as my second home. 

Biography 

Carol was born in Belmullet, County Mayo, Ireland. She grew up as the youngest of nine children. Both her mother and father were very supporting and loving people. She walked to school on the weekdays and walked to the Catholic church on Sunday. By the time she was 19, she decided to go to England where she worked as a waitress for four years before being allowed to move into the United States. In the summer of 1962, she boarded a flight, by herself, into John F. Kennedy Airport and moved into the Bronx. Here, she continued to waitress in the city and she lived with her sister, Ann, who had moved into America a year prior from Ireland. It was in the city where my grandmother met my grandfather who was working for an insurance agency at the time. My grandmother and grandfather got married and moved into the suburbs about an hour north of the city. They settled down and have five kids, one of whom was my father. My grandfather then got a job to work in the NYPD until he retired as a detective and my grandmother stayed home and took care of the five children. 

Part of the reason why I chose to interview my grandmother was because I know she loves to talk about the past. She is the type of woman to tell people the same story over and over and with a smile on her face every time. I have never asked her questions related to her gender role in her life in the workforce or in family life so I am eager to see how she responds. My grandmother is known for being a very strong and honest woman, so I know she will answer every question with nothing but the truth. She was a great mother and raised five amazing children. I’m so grateful that our family is so close in nature, I know I have her to thank for that. 

Transcript

Caitlin Tully 0:18

Alright ready?

Carol 0:20

I’m ready as could be.

Caitlin Tully 0:21

What drove you to come to America?

Carol 0:24

Well, I really and truly still don’t understand why the hell I did come, but anyway.  I was in England, I left Ireland in ‘59 and I came to this country from England in ‘62.

Caitlin Tully 0:47

And were you alone?

Carol 0:58

Yes, well my sister was here she came before me and that was all we had just the two of us. I came alone on the fourth of July.

Caitlin Tully 1:12

So, were you looking for a job or a husband?

Carol 1:16

A job oh yes, I got job the following week I became a waitress.

Caitlin Tully 1:26

How was the assimilation process of coming to America, were you invited?

Carol 1:43

I was-I was invited. I would have stayed in England if it were not for my sister-she was here and she was here alone, we had no relatives in this country. I was her only relative and she was mine.

Caitlin Tully 1:56

Was there any time being Irish set you back in anyway?

Carol 2:11

No, no, no, actually the Irish were very much alive in this country. We had Irish dance halls, we went dancing every Friday, Saturday and Sunday night. I wish you had experienced it.

Caitlin Tully 2:38

How divided were the people of different ethnic groups in NYC?

Carol 2:42

I don’t think there was any (inaudible). We worked with black, white every color in the world. There was never a notice taken of color. We had a lot of friends that weren’t Irish. We worked with them, so we were friends with them and that’s how it was back then. You were friends with them, you worked with them, you laughed with them, we had more laughs than anything else. Oh, there was a black guy in the kitchen, him and I used to walk to the train station together- he was funny. It’s not like today, not like today at all.

Caitlin Tully 3:48

Looking back at how far you have come since immigrating from Ireland is there anything you would change?

Carol 4:02

No really no I’ve got five lovely kids came in 62 and got married in 66, and he became a policeman.

Caitlin Tully 4:29

Oh, he wasn’t a policeman when you met him?

 

Caitlin Tully 4:42

What was he?

Carol 4:50

He worked for insurance; he was an insurance guy. And he was Irish he was from Galway and I was from Mayo.

 

Caitlin Tully 5:04

Oh, okay. Was there ever a time you wish you could have left the traditional role as a stay-at-home mom to pursue a career?

Carol 5:12

Oh God, definitely-yes. Well- but- if I had to do it again, I would have done the same thing. Because five kids came out as you know they were loved, and they were as close as peas in a pod. I mean all of them have great jobs.

Caitlin Tully 5:53

What job would you want to do if you could have?

Carol 5:57

If I could have? I might have gone with the nuns-haha. I wouldn’t have, I wouldn’t have. I definitely wanted to go nursing. I’m always taking care of old ladies- and now I’m old myself.

Caitlin Tully 7:03

From the time you entered America to now, what was the biggest social change you’ve experienced?

Carol 7:11

That there is too much liberty with children, I have a very good old saying in my mind that I did with all five kids, “spare the rod, spoil the child. In other words, if you don’t beat the child for doing something wrong, then you’re spoiling it. The rod we got if we did anything wrong. Today, someone would call the police on you if you hit your child.

Caitlin Tully 8:29

What about the Civil Rights movements, anything about that you remember?

Carol 8:35

There was- after we got married in 1966. I think they (activists) started a riot, and your grandfather was on duty in the middle of the night so that was hard, it was hard to have him out worried about him being killed or hurt.

Caitlin Tully 9:11

Did you find America was more accepting or constraining with women’s rights compared to Ireland?

Carol 9:19

I never thought of anything like that on the women (inaudible). I enjoyed every day that I worked, I worked in a restaurant. I enjoyed every single minute of it, and it was when I got pregnant, I had to give up. Do you want me to tell you when I was in the magazine? Best and courtliest waitress in New York City. How do you like that?

Caitlin Tully 10:00

What year was that?

 

Carol 10:08

That was ‘64. And the manager goes to me the next day, “how did you manage that”. Two guys were in there the night before that, and they were the spotters, and they would come in you know. I happened to be nice that night and in a good mood. And the next day, oh look there’s a picture of me on the magazine. Oh yes- truly that was back in the 60’s. I loved waitressing and working and being with people and I had black friends, white friends’ Mexican friends, I had them all.

 

Caitlin Tully 11:18

Was there anything men could do that you couldn’t, was there ever a time someone told you were unqualified because of your gender?

Carol 11:39

Oh, they wouldn’t do that to me because they’d know I would slap them-ha-ha. No, I was never that way. I could take the wheel barrel.

Caitlin Tully 12:00

Can you provide me with an example of a main cultural or social difference between Ireland and American.

Carol 12:11

Well in Ireland it was way different because you knew everybody. The way I was brought up we spoke Gaelic; we were not taught English at school. That’s how my English was so bad because we were brought up with Gaelic. We weren’t allowed to speak English in the school or the school yard. Our Gaelic was taught, I had a bigger brogue than someone that was taught English at school. Kids would come to our school to be taught proper Gaelic, now like for Mary Madden was not taught proper Gaelic. Mary O’Keefe came to our school to be taught proper Gaelic. That’s why she speaks differently because she was taught English. We weren’t allowed to speak English. But when I went to England, and I loved England, I will have to say.

 

Caitlin Tully 14:20

Because you got to speak English?

Carol 14:24

We spoke English before we went to England- the kind of English we are talking now is the same English we are talking now. We were never taught the grammar of the English. Now you know. You are learning more about me every day.