Interview with ST, HIST 150 Spring 2021, Conducted by Rose Tombul, March 14th, 2021.
Introduction to Interview:
This interview was conducted in the spring of 2021 about a man’s immigration journey from Turkey to the United States of America in 1988. The main themes discussed are the immigration process in 1988, learning English as a second language, the real estate business, and how different the immigration process is today when compared to the late 1980’s. 1988 was the very end of the Ronald Reagan administration and the George H.W. Bush administration was about to take off. Both presidents were members of the Republican Party, a party that aligns itself with conservative values. Historically, one of the conservative values that the Republican Party aligns itself with is stricter border control and making the immigration process harder. Ironically, the immigration journey discussed in this interview involved sponsorship from a Republican member of the U.S. House of Representatives. The interview covers stories from the mid-1980’s to the present. It begins with how the man met the Republican congressman and his wife at a hotel in Turkey and eventually came to America. Then it transitions to his experience in college as a student who was still learning to speak, read, and write English. After college, he talks about how he got into the real estate business because of his interest in the mortgage system. Lastly, he talks about the changes he has experienced since moving to America permanently, the most important being the technological advances that made it much easier for him to communicate with his family across the globe.
Biography:
ST is a Turkish realtor and landlord that practices in the Washington, D.C. area. He came to the United States in 1988 with an opportunity from a congressman and his wife who he met in a German hotel. At 18 years old, he began a new life halfway across the world from his family. He had the opportunity to go to college in Washington, D.C. to earn a bachelor’s degree. While in college, he found his passion for real estate when he purchases his very first condo with a mortgage. In Turkey at the time, they did not have a system similar to how Americans can make mortgage payments, so ST was fascinated and wanted to learn more about the process. Eventually, he gets his real estate license and has been practicing ever since. He now lives in the Northern Virginia area with his wife and three children.
Transcript:
Rose 0:01
Hello.
ST 0:02
Hello, Rosie.
Rose 0:05
Can you tell me about how you acquired the opportunity to come to the United States?
ST 0:10
Thank you, thank you for asking. I think one of the best thing happened to me in my life that coming to this great country in 1988. And when I was in the middle school, I wanted to learn English and I- Unfortunately, we didn’t have an English teacher, but I had to go to the special classes. I took Special English classes while I was at high school, and I work at the hotel. And of course, the reason I want to work in the Turkish hotel was this, I can practice English, I could work and make money. So then I met an American family while I was working at the hotel. Then, they stay there about two weeks, and we became friendly and they asked me if I want to visit the United States, I should let them know. Then a couple months later, it was a winter season, hotel was shut down for the season, and I called them, “hey, I am coming to United States!” They invited me and I came in this country, as a student because I always wanted to go to school in the United States. I came here in 1988. First, I went to English as a second language for about, about five months, then I started to go to college and I studied a little bit of everything. I started with business management, political science, I say “liberal arts.”
Rose 1:55
Okay, and what made you decide to go to college?
ST 1:59
Well, as you know, education is always important. So it’s if you want to be successful, if you want to do more, and you have to learn more, you know, the more you learn, and more you do better, and you’ll be more successful.
Rose 2:15
Yeah. So what languages did you speak when you met the American family while working at the Turkish hotel?
ST 2:21
Turkish obviously, and besides Turkish, a little bit English, so that’s why I was able to communicate with my little English.
Rose 2:34
Okay, awesome. So when you first got to America, were there any specific things that kind of gave you a culture shock that you weren’t used to? Or that were just really different from your culture back home in Turkey?
ST 2:49
Oh, well, I could tell because coming from the little town, you know, I was born in the little village that population is 350 people. And when I came in, I was working in the hotel, at the front desk. So when I, customer were checking out. And as soon as he checked out, he wanted to make a reservation. Again, I said “oh then,” customer asked me, “I’d like to make a reservation again.” I said, “Sure. When?” The customer said “next year.” I was like, “next year!?” Of course, because you used to- I wasn’t used to, like, doing the schedule, like a year ahead. You know, it’s- and it’s what I find on the scheduling is very important, obviously, back then, now it’s changed. But for example, back home, like you’re walking on the street, and your friend is probably- was going to see other friends or had to do something, but it stopped talking to you and other friends probably waiting. So here when you are someone, they do want to do something, and in the American culture and first thing they say, “let me check my schedule.” You know, it’s this was kinda… it just interesting a little bit, how nice you have scheduling you know, it’s back then, like a calling here, for example. But in this little town, when you want to visit you just knock the door and you open the doors. You know, here it was… I cannot say over all Turkey but my coming from Little Village. It was kind of interesting that thinking a year I had and also your schedule that thing like I have to be there at 3, you are there 2:59 kinda.
Rose 4:50
Yeah, that’s so funny! So were there any specific struggles that you say you dealt with while you were in college?
ST 5:01
Well of course, because college is very difficult, or was difficult besides this college and being in the different country, and there’s a language, like English, I have to learn English first, then, you know, go to the college. And of course, there’s no ending to learn, I’m still learning. And it was very difficult for me, of course, because English is my second language. But it was tough. But I was so lucky that my professor, they were very helpful. They understood me. They were giving me extra tutoring. My difficulty was that I understood, but I could not explain myself, like I could not put in writing. Like, sometimes when in the oral exam, when they asked me to orally I could have explained well, but I had the issue in writing. But again, I didn’t not get the best grades, but I passed. But the main thing, of course, I always want to get better grade, but main thing was to learn the college life and college education and of course the English.
Rose 6:21
Yeah. Okay, so why did you decide to go into real estate after college?
ST 6:28
Well, I always interested in the real estate, because I first purchased my real condo when I was taking Economics 101. When I was taking Econ 101, I learned the term “mortgage.” Like when I asked, “mortgage, what the mortgage means?” When they explained that you go to the bank, you get the- you put some down payment, you can get the loan and you can buy your own house. And back in Turkey, we did not have the mortgage system then. We had mortgage or ‘bank of mom or dad or uncle.’ So what we were doing in back home, that family they work, they save money. And every few years they purchase the house like uncle one, uncle two uncle three. Saving of the family, then they buy the home every three years or five years. So we didn’t have a mortgage. When I learned the mortgage system. At that time, I was going to college and I had two jobs, I was eligible to get a loan. Of course, my loan was in 1992 was $45,000. So now, as you see you cannot buy a house, I mean the condo now, but I was lucky that I got a mortgage. So I purchased a one bedroom condo, and I rented, we shared the room, I rented the room. And my rent was paying the mortgage. So I always wanted to learn real estate. Then, when I purchased my own condo, I asked my friends, mostly Turkish friends, they’ve been here longer than I am. They were here five years, 10 years, 15 years, they didn’t have the house. But I told them, “look, I’ve been here for years, I purchased a home, why did you get one?” So I helped them and I advised them what had to find the agent and find a mortgage company. And then at the time there were four or five of my friends purchased the home. Then I told him it was very difficult to become a real estate agent. So I took a class and I passed when I became licensed so I could help more people from my country or anybody who wants to buy a house, of course to make money.
Rose 9:13
That’s so awesome. Okay, so do you think that the immigration process would look different if you were to try to immigrate today, instead of back in 1988?
9:28
I do not know much now. But back then there was a process that you have to go through. But back then, for example, it was easier I believe. Because when I arrived here in 1988, as a student visa, I could have get driver’s license, social security number, and I could work 20 hours a week. Back then I think it was much easier, but it’s just the process of course. Now of course, I’m sure that new policy and more people want to come to this great country. Now, I do not know much. But back then was much easier if you follow the rules and regulation.
Rose 10:19
Yeah, that makes sense. Do you think that the living situations in Turkey are better or worse today than they were when you left? So I kind of like what you were saying with like buying houses and stuff like that? Do you think that it’s better today, or it’s better back then?
ST 10:38
Absolutely, much better. As you know, with the new technology and new ideas and work, the world is getting smaller and smaller. Now, of course, back then we didn’t have a mortgage, but now it’s much improved. Life expectancy is better, and the economy’s better, technology is better. For example, in my little village, back then only two three people have a car. Now everybody has a car. And so it’s much better than before, of course. Now, I mean, one thing is much better. Of course, thanks to technology. Back then, when I came here in 1988, when I wanted to talk to my parents, like a telephone call, it’s so expensive, like it was $6 per minute. What I did not know that expensive, Rosie. Like AT&T, I call Turkey and I care, I did not know that it is $6 a minute. And I receive a bill at the end of the month. It was like $500! Oh my god, it was more expensive than like my mortgage payment, their rent. But then I call the company and of course they help me with that. But now as you see the technology now I’m talking to you where you are and I am home and it’s of course much better.
Rose 12:10
Yeah, that’s crazy. So how do you incorporate your Turkish culture here in America?
ST 12:20
Well, of course, in America as you say, ‘melting pot,’ as long as you follow the rules and regulations, and you do the right thing, and also you can continue with your own culture, in Turkish culture. And in Turkish culture, of course, it’s a little bit different like we call each other a lot, we check each other a lot, we help each other a lot. We of course, food is different, we get together, and we do you know, on our Turkish nights, people get together to picnic. This gives opportunity in this country that you can do- follow your own culture still, while you are living in an American culture. So I think that since I lived in this country, more than I lived in Turkey now I am like, you know, I have both culture so I can I don’t have any, like a difficulty with obviously american people. I go to the American picnic or meeting or reception. Sometimes I feel much more comfortable, you know, at American meetings and parties then as much as Turkish meetings and Turkish people getting together.
Rose 13:56
So would you say you’re a little more attached to American culture than Turkish culture?
ST 14:00
I believe Yeah. I think both but probably more American culture.
Rose 14:06
Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, well, thank you so much for letting me interview you.
ST 14:12
Oh, of course. Yeah. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. If you have any question you know how to reach me
Rose 14:18
Awesome. Thank you.
Research:
Prior to conducting this interview, research was done in the area of Turkish immigration to America. There were roughly 400,000 immigrants from Turkey that came to America in the past 200 years. Today, there are fewer than 100,000 Turkish immigrants living in the United States. There were large waves of immigration from the Ottoman Empire (the land that is today called “Turkey”) from 1850 to 1920 because U.S. immigration laws were very loose. However, after several acts passed by congress in the 1920’s with the goal of making immigration more strict, immigration from Turkey slowed down significantly. It was not until about 1965 when immigration laws became more liberal that the number of Turkish immigrants coming to America per year was much higher. During this period of time, many more women were immigrating from Turkey to America with their families, rather than in the early 20th century where most immigrants were young males. After 1980, there were more immigrants that were students (like ST) or professionals, but there were still many immigrant from turkey that were uneducated but had manual labor skills. When ST came to America in 1988, he had finished high school and was looking to pursue a college education, so he would fall under the category of “student.”
Bibliography:
Akcapar, Sebnem Koser (2009), “Turkish Associations in the United States: Towards Building a Transnational Identity”, Turkish Studies, Routledge, 10 (2): 165–193, doi:10.1080/14683840902863996
Heisel, D. (2009). Book Review: Turkish Migration to the United States: From Ottoman Times to the Present. International Migration Review, 43(4), 995–996. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1747-7379.2009.00793.x
Kaya, Ilhan (2004), “Turkish-American immigration history and identity formations”, Journal of Muslim Minority Affairs, Routledge, 24 (2): 295–308, doi:10.1080/1360200042000296672
Follow Up Commentary:
Transcript was approved by interviewee on 03/28/2021. No changes were requested.
Technical Elements:
This interview took place over a Zoom video call as both parties were not in the same area. Otter.ai is a free transcription service that was used to transcribe this interview.
Transcription Process:
After the interview was transcribed by Otter.ai, there were many mistakes detected from the service. Due to this, I listened through the interview again and made all of those corrections. I made the decision to not include stutters or pauses in the interest of making the transcript easier to read. Although it was suggested to keep these pauses in in order to preserve authenticity, I decided that the benefit of a transcript that is easier to read outweighed the benefits of including the pauses and other non-verbal vocal cues (such as multiple “um’s” or “uh’s.”