Title: Interview with Grandmother about Immigration, Cold War, and raising a family in the US
Citation: Interview with Irina Romanoff, History 150 Spring 2020, Conducted by Thomas Rothman, March 10, 2020
Background Research:
The Tashkent Earthquake of 1966 was a very destructive earthquake in the city center of 5.1 magnitude. Although the magnitude is not that large, several “aftershock” earthquakes occurred for months after the first one. The Tashkent Earthquake left 300,000 people homeless in a city of 1.5 million. However, due to the speed and efficiency of the Soviet Union, the whole capital was completely reconstructed over three and a half years.
“1966-2016: 50 Years since the Tashkent Earthquake.” UNDP in Uzbekistan, www.uz.undp.org/content/uzbekistan/en/home/presscenter/articles/2016/04/30/1966-2016–50-years-since-the-tashkent-earthquake/.
Regarding gender roles in the Soviet Union, between 1962 and 1964, 40 percent of the chemistry Ph.D.’s awarded in Soviet Russia went to women. Additionally, the first woman to go to space was a Russian woman named, Valentina Tereshkova. Although it may not seem like it, Soviet women were treated equally to men because under communism all are equal. In fact, in the Soviet Union, women were responsible for many of the scientific accomplishments.
Eveleth, Rose. “Soviet Russia Had a Better Record of Training Women in STEM Than America Does Today.” Smithsonian.com, Smithsonian Institution, 12 Dec. 2013, www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/soviet-russia-had-a-better-record-of-training-women-in-stem-than-america-does-today-180948141/.
Transcription:
Thomas Rothman
Good afternoon Irina, how are you doing today?
Irina Romanoff
I’m fine.
Thomas Rothman
Um, so to start, can you please describe what life was like growing up in the USSR?
Irina Romanoff
Life, life was normal because of my family, we didn’t live in just the country or small or big city where they have own problems, my family lived and I grew up in a city that was doing some secret stuff producing. And of course, because of this, the government tried to send us good food, good clothes, and my parents had money. Not much but it was enough.
Thomas Rothman
What said he was this?
Irina Romanoff
That time it was a Chkalovsk
Thomas Rothman
Now known as?
Irina Romanoff
I think it’s still Chkalovsk. But I’m not aware.
Thomas Rothman
What kind of secret stuff were they doing?
Irina Romanoff
Uranium
[Chkalovsk once had the capability to convert uranium concentrate into uranium hexafluoride. The plant provided the material for the USSR’s first nuclear weapon.]
Thomas Rothman
Uranium?
Irina Romanoff
Mm-hmm.
Thomas Rothman
Okay. Um, growing up, were there any moments that stood out to you?
Irina Romanoff
But I have to add, it was a secret for us. But then later we find out in some magazine, there was an American who took pictures and said it’s a secret town in Center Asia. It was, I guess not really a secret for everybody.
Thomas Rothman
Yeah. Um, so what was school like growing up?
Irina Romanoff
High School I was very good I was a talented student. I went to the school when I was just six and a half years, and I was doing very good. I even graduated from school with a silver medal. And in the Soviet Union, it was you go into school, and in first grade. And you graduate in 11th grade in my case, because in other years it was 10 grades. And I still had exactly the same people in the same class. So it goes from seven years to 17-18.
Thomas Rothman
And growing up, did you have any jobs or chores that you were required to do?
Irina Romanoff
No, I didn’t have any job. I was just studying, and then chores it’s like a normal family. So whatever I have to do at home. Yeah, wash the floor wash the dishes. Iron clothes.
Thomas Rothman
Were there any moments that stood out to you growing up?
Irina Romanoff
Yes, it was very early, it was 1953. I was not six years old. It was like five and a half. And I was with my mom. We went to the market and suddenly the radio starts to announce about Stalin’s death. And this is of course in my memory, whole picture.
Thomas Rothman
Okay, so what happened? How did people respond to Stalin’s death?
Irina Romanoff
As I know in my town, when I heard about it, people around me were crying. And I was full of concern. Oh my god, how are we gonna live right now? But later in the big city, I heard my grandpa told me it was a I believe 30,000 to 20,000 people died because everybody tried to go to see the one last time the body of Stalin and they hurt themself was killed with the crowd
Thomas Rothman
Wow. So where did you go to university?
Irina Romanoff
I went to Tashkent Polytechnical Institute, and at that time I was thinking I need to have some professional work can prove or make me recognized and make other people recognize I’m not worse than men so I can do what men can do, and it was unusual for the girls but I went for the physical or not physical, physics at the University. But it was just one year because in May earthquake happen very bad. And I live in campus outside the center. So our buildings was okay. But still, it was kind of a scary moment because of all this earthquake, smaller than first one continue like months, months and a half later. So I decided to go to move to transfer to another college and of course, I thought about Moscow because of my father, that time he lived in Moscow.
Thomas Rothman
So you went to the University of Moscow? What university?
Irina Romanoff
It was not a university, it was the Moscow energy and power Institute.
Thomas Rothman
Okay.
Irina Romanoff
So I went there. And because I was transferring, they didn’t have exactly the same specialty what I had in Tashkent but I picked up steam generators, what was available that time and in order for me to go on the second grade, second year in the Institute, I have to take few exams and I did it on my own. So, I heard the time like three months or four months period, I have to do it. So I done that. So I continued to study on steam generators specialty. And then in 1971 when I graduate, before I graduate, I was doing half a year my diploma, but that time it was available computers calculation for the best model of the steam generators. Because my profession was to create plans to produce steam generators. So because computers became available, I decided I’m gonna pick this field and I will do my diploma on computers. So I was the first tryer and I was successful. I got my diploma and I got my workplace.
Thomas Rothman
Did you get to choose your workplace or was it assigned?
Irina Romanoff
Ah no I get to choose, but it was particular jobs what was offered to me, like a fair, like in the United States, and I chose the computer center at the Ministery of Energy. So at that time it was a very popular and they created a computer center on the base of the Ministry of Energy. I went there to work. When I start to work at the computer center the Ministry of Energy was ready to buy a brand-new, big, big computer what will be set up in a huge, huge room, and the name was Minsk 32 [The most advanced model of a mainframe computer of the Minsk model was the Minsk-32, developed in 1968.]
So computer was produced by Belarussia. It’s another Soviet Republic. And in order to know what to do with this computer they will send people to learn in Minsk. So I went to Minsk. And my choice was a computer programmer. So I took a classes. I believe it was three, four months. And then I pass a test and I became a computer programmer. So after that, I was working at the computer center, and I was very much glad I’m doing this job. I was doing extra job to finish project, but big disappointment for me was when I finished the project, my boss said, “ahh you know what, nobody needs it right now. They already changed the plan.” So whatever I was doing, and I was doing, like almost a year, so it’s gone in a basket, in the trash. Okay, so I was chill out, so didn’t want to work over there anymore.
So I decided to change my job. So, I went to a library by name Lenin. And I was working there in the computer department also. So I will work there not as a computer programmer, but I will work there is a supervisor. Like we had the team, five people and we were doing some stuff that time it was automatisation of the library. So I was working on that because of the some circumstances so later, I changed and I went to a different department as a Vice Director of the Department of Mechanization Library. So I was still in the library and that time I had already married and I had my two kids. So everything was fine. So I was making good money for that standards. And because I remember the lowest pay for the people was, I believe it was 45 rubles or 60 rubles, and my pay was 220 rubles. So it was good. And of course, my husband worked. So this is how it goes.
Thomas Rothman
So throughout all of this, were there any opportunities, were there any times that you felt gender impacted your opportunities?
Irina Romanoff
No, I don’t think so. In Russia, in Soviet Union, they always tried to promote woman they tried to promote people from different republics. So they call us like a miner, minorities. So, no, not really. And I was very much happy. So finally, I came back to other minister, I transferred myself. It was an opportunity to became, become a director of the computer center, in the Ministry of Culture. So I was working there. Again, we had a company who was doing actual programming for us, but we’re the ones who will put them goal and then pick up the company who will do this assign the task. And it was until the Perestroika [First proposed by Leonid Brezhnev in 1979 and actively promoted by Mikhail Gorbachev, perestroika originally referred to increased automation and labor efficiency, but came to entail greater awareness of economic markets and the ending of central planning] came. After that, we got some companies what called joint venture created and one of the joint venture. It was an Interquadro. So it was an international company in Russia, so it was a French company, it was a Russian Minister of Agriculture. And it was Italy. And on top of this, it was the fourth one in the Department of Education. So, and after it was registered they open space for the people to work there, so I moved there and it was a very good time to work there. And I was making very good money. And on top of this, they will bring in a lot of mission days from France or Italy to sell our employees.
And this was time when situation in Soviet Union change and Communist Party was not in power anymore. So a lot of people will drop communist party membership. It was an interesting time and people were demonstrating try to go for the better life, make better choice. And that time looks like Yeltsin [Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin was a Soviet and Russian politician who served as the first President of Russia from 1991 to 1999] was much better choice. Yeah. So I was working there. For a while, and then I switch for another joint venture. And it was a tour company. So it was very much interesting. So because I already had experience working with tour groups, it was my kind of hobby or second job part time so I was a manager of tour groups. And I manage to travel with groups almost every week or definitely every other week. And then for the vacation time we nice vacation like a whole month. So I went to Vladivostok it’s far, far east of the country and then Peninsula Kamchatka, and then the island of Sakhalin. It was a very nice time.
Thomas Rothman
So these travels were inside the Soviet Union, right?
Irina Romanoff
Yes, it was inside Soviet Union. But on top of this, my husband and I will travel abroad. So maybe that time it was easy to get the tours. So my first tour was in 1981 when I went to Cuba [Cuba had close relations to the Soviet Union and the Soviet Union subsidized the Cuban economy until about 1991 when the Soviet Union collapsed], so I flew there and it was an excellent vacation almost whole month. So it was very, very nice. And never had this experience before of course, so everything was new for me and for other people. But then the other big trip was in 1986. I went on a cruise around Europe. So it was again a whole month, and it was very nice. A lot of fun. And we came back in the Baltic Sea in, I believe it was a Latvian Republic, and it was the name of the port I believe it was Riga, and it was a second day after Chernobyl [the Chernobyl disaster was a nuclear accident that occurred on Saturday 26 April 1986, at the No. 4 reactor in the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant, near the city of Pripyat in the north of the Ukrainian SSR] happened.
Thomas Rothman
Wow.
Irina Romanoff
So and we didn’t know about it. So they were working around, but then later I find out, the wind was blowing in that direction. So we didn’t know what to expect after that. So I guess that’s it. And my work experience in Russia and my kids is going to be grown up. So my son is 18 he graduated from school, he went to regular school and then she went to art school. Where he got a diploma from so he’s a very talented artist. But in Soviet Union when the boy is 18, he has to go to serve in the army. But if he is an institute, university, he can be, it can be postponed until he graduates. So he went to educational institute to become a teacher of art. But a year later, we decided after I had a couple business trip to United States, so I like it very much in the United States. So I decided it will be a better future more opportunities for my kids. And, of course for me, because I remember myself when I came first time to Boston. I met my partners there. But I didn’t tell the story.
I come back a little bit when I work at the joint venture Interquadro, one of the project was developed Russian language course for foreign people. And we had a huge exhibition technical exhibition. And I was working at the stand to try to promote that. And I met some people from United States who was interested in that. So I got in contact with them. And this reason I went to business trip because they invited me to visit them and discuss all the business opportunity. So, first time in Boston, I’m working in a park and the all these squirrels are jumping around me.
And the people lay down in the grass. Everybody, relax, have fun. And I was crying because I thought, it’s so good because in Soviet Union, you couldn’t lay down, you couldn’t sit down on the grass. It was not like freedom. And, of course, if you want to see animals like a squirrel, you have to go to botanical garden. It was nice. It was not far from our house, but it was nice, but it still was not the same. So that time I decided I’m gonna do whatever it takes to bring my kids and myself of course, to United States. So a couple years later, or even a year and a half later and get the opportunity. So we came to United States was not a refugee yet nothing it was just a tourist visa. And of course my English was not very good. How I find out later, because when I saw the sign ‘restroom,’ I was thinking, why is there a restaurant over here? it’s funny even when I think about it. So, we got a half a year tourist visa to stay in the United States. And that time when you’re in Russia in I’m talking about not Russia Soviet Union was, it was a lot of changes. But it started when I was there, because I remember, putsch [The 1991 Soviet coup d’état attempt, also known as the August Coup was an attempt made by members of the government of the Soviet Unin to take control of the country from Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev] everybody probably heard about putsch in August. It was 1991 I believe. 1991, Yes. 91 and I was there and everybody was glued to TV because the time in Moscow, we could watch CNN already. So so I was witness of everything that has happened there and actually, my partner from United States was suppose to come to Moscow for a business visit. And they when they stop in Polish, in Poland, they get scared about this putsch so the called me and said, “What should we do? Should we go back to the United States or should we fly to Moscow?” So for me that time it was kind of everything new I didn’t know what to expect. So I said, No, you sissy guys, just come to Moscow. So everything is fine. So they came and really they were interested to see what’s going on and a young guy was with us. So he was constantly taking pictures on the streets like tanks! tanks! So it was a interesting time.
But soon after that, like I said, we went to United States and we stay in New York. And I did not have connection with my partners. When we came to New York, we stayed, a little bit with friends, and then I tried to rent apartment and it’s happened. I was able to do it because I had another friend who signed lease with me. And apparently it was in North Bronx, where it was a lot of Jewish people from Soviet Union, a big Jewish community center. And of course, my apartment was empty. And a lot of people from my neighborhood tried to help so they brought a lot of some furniture from Jewish community and people brought me like bedsheets and pillows because we didn’t have anything and some kitchen dishes and pans and pots, and was very good for us. We found among them in the middle of the stack of the bedsheets. It was like a bag not a very big bag, but it was a bag and a full of different jewleries. It was a lot much and not very expensive but I didn’t know who gave it to us. Was it mistake or so I didn’t know who to return it. So we decided to keep it and it helped us a lot because I was able to sell it in a pawn shop. So to have a little bit more money because my son was 19 but my daughter was 14 so she went to school, high school and my son supposed to find a job because he graduated from high school already. So we were working little by little try to serve some people I was working with some old guy, too. Just help him to do daily routines. And then I went to Rabbi family who lost his wife, tried to clean his house. This is what happened and then our friend his company moved to Columbia, DC, Washington, DC.
Thomas Rothman
Maryland.
Irina Romanoff
Yes, Maryland. And he already rented three bedroom apartment in Columbia, Maryland. But his wife decided she not gonna move from New York. So he was by himself, new job and a brand new three bedroom apartment that he rented. So he invited us to go to Maryland, and this is how we moved to Maryland. So this would be our life in Maryland. So if you have any other questions, let me know
Thomas Rothman
What was it like to raise a family as an immigrant in America?
Irina Romanoff
It was, like I said, my character, I’m a very strong woman. So for me, it was a everyday task. And I did not stress out myself was not upset. So it was just normal life try to survive. And of course, because we didn’t have money, so I learned how to buy cheap stuff in the supermarket. And everything what cost more than a dollar. I didn’t allow myself to buy that time, but of course, it was different prices because of inflation, 28 years later. So, basically, for me, for us it was a very difficult task because when you go in and Soviet Union, to buy some food, it’s not a big choice. So you’re going over there and you buy whatever they have, especially later, before we moved out. It was an empty, empty store, no food. So you have to catch the time when food will be there. And you buy whatever they have. So over here going to supermarket. I was just stunned. I didn’t know what to buy. So, like, when they look in the butter, it’s like, I don’t know. 30 kinds of, butter, but I didn’t know. So I learned about all this stuff. And my goal at that time was if it’s on sale, and it cost, like in the final, a dollar, so I will buy it. So everything. Of course they learn how to use coupons. When the later I even got the name queen of coupons. Because I was doing it’s very great.
And even when I got married to American man, we going to the store and I will tell him, let me show you how to use these coupons. So I ended up I’m, you’ll be like getting money back like $3-$5 so it was fun. So then I decided I got married, of course, and my son already was, I believe he was 21 at the time or 20. So he decided to join American army. So he went to training camp. I believe it was in Georgia. But then after that, after months and a half 10 people from whole school was sent abroad. And of course it was my son. So they sent him to Germany, I believe it was Frankfurt base. And Kosovo [The Kosovo conflict took place from 1989 to 1999. The immediate cause of the conflict in Kosovo was Slobodan Milosevic, and his oppression of the ethnic Albanians there for the preceding decade.] So he was there. In Kosovo. He was in the medical Battalion, so he was helping people and because it was wintertime, so he got upset, upset his arm, his hands got frozen, because it was winter and he has to do the job. That time the Army cars and emergency cars was very, very bad shape. So he told me when we going on a mission to help people save people, our emergency car broke down in the middle of the road. So it was very, very bad. So I guess compared to what we have right now, it’s much better now.
Thomas Rothman
How did you feel that part of the reason you left the Soviet Union was for him not to have to join the army?
Irina Romanoff
Yes, it was very weird feeling
Thomas Rothman
Uh huh.
Irina Romanoff
Because I didn’t want him to go and risk his life in Soviet Union. But here when I find out I said, you didn’t want to go there to serve in army. You’re going over here. So he told me, Oh, Mom, you don’t understand American army, It’s like a regular job. And he had some examples because that time he was already married and a brother of his wife all his life was in the service in North Carolina, in the medical battalion working in the hospital. So in the he made career of that, so my son was hoping he will do the same, but apparently it didn’t happen. And on top of this, when he is in Germany, he was hoping by that time, he already will get his citizenship because he had just a green card. And because of green card, you couldn’t go to officer school. So, and the citizenship was not coming, not coming. So I try to find out what’s happened. I went to my Congressman, it was already in Virginia, and I find out they lost his paper. So but congressman was very helpful. So his staff helped my son to fly back to United States and make application again and fingerprints and everything so they said they’re gonna expedite it and he left for Germany again. And supposed to wait when they will be ready for interview. So again, takes time. Nothing happened so I went to congressman’s office again and apparently they lost his fingerprints again. So congressman said, Okay, we’re gonna fly him in again and this time he’s not gonna go back until he can get his citizenship. So and it happened finally. So but that time already was too late to go to officer school because he got his hand injured and then he just went how to say the quit.
Thomas Rothman
Discharge.
Irina Romanoff
Discharge. He discharged from army. Yeah. And this what our life. So he came back to our place in Virginia because he wants to continue his education. He made few credits when he was in the army in Germany. And of course, he had one year Institute credits in Moscow so he was able to transfer all this credits. So he decided to go to Harrisonburg, James Madison University, and very unexpected for me was because he’s a very talented artist, but he couldn’t make bread and liveing drawing art. So he decided to go maybe computer animation or computer graphic. But then after first semester he said, you know, anybody can do it. I don’t need to have my talent to be an artist. So he switched for the political religion, something else, so when he graduated with his diploma that time he already knew he will go and continue education to be an attorny at law. So he did. So he became a lawyer, and now he has his own business more than 10 years already.
Thomas Rothman
How does that make you feel?
Irina Romanoff
Yes makes me feel very proud. And meanwhile, my daughter, she also graduated from high school with an honor. And because she already was with my ex husband family, I was married that time. So she had the green card but she didn’t have citizenship yet. So she was able to get she was not able to get a scholarship for her good study, but she was able to get some help from government because of our financial situation. And she went to the same James Madison University and even it was before my son went there, so I messed up the dates. So she graduated from James Madison in computer science and since that time she’s working in this field. So I’m proud of my kids. And I think I was okay also. So I was at the beginning of my life in Virginia, I went to work as a front desk clerk in courtyard, in Alexandria, and then they promote me, they offered to me position in the accounting department. So I took that and since then I was a payroll management and Benefits Administrator in another company. So I continue to work until I was 55. And then, I decided my kids has grown up, has own families so I can do something else. So I was not married anymore. So I went to North Carolina, and then Myrtle Beach, and I got my real estate license. And it was very nice, so I made a good living at that time. And then at the end I decided to come back to Virginia. So now in Virginia, retired. But before I retired, I went to get my other license health insurance license. And I was working at the insurance agency for a while. So using all my credentials, so and then I retired. So now I’m retired. Just enjoying my kids and grandkids.
Thomas Rothman
With all this information in hindsight, would you have done anything different throughout this entire process?
Irina Romanoff
If you’re talking about since I came to United States? No, I guess I try my best and then I did it. I don’t think I had an other way. Maybe if I had a little bit more luck, maybe I could do better and different. But when I think back, I thinking maybe if I come to Unitas came to United States earlier, at least in my thirties, not in fourties, maybe it will be completely different outcome.
Thomas Rothman
Yeah. Okay, well, thank you.
Irina Romanoff
You’re welcome.
Overview of Interview Process:
I conducted my interview on the Tuesday of spring break before the restrictions due to COVID-19 were too extreme. We talked in person at my grandmother’s apartment in Northern Virginia. I reserved from the JMU library and took home with me a Blue Snowball microphone over spring break so that the audio quality was clear for the interview. I did so a significant amount of audio editing because there were several moments where I had to pause the interview so both I and my grandmother could collect our thoughts.
Overall thoughts of the interview process:
I thoroughly enjoyed the interview process. I learned a lot from my grandmother and my family and I fell like I got closer to my grandmother by hearing more of her story. I think the interview went about as well as I could have expected. I do not think my grandmother and I had an issue of communication because we are very close. I liked just letting my grandmother talked because it allowed me to understand what moments were meaningful to hear without interfering.