Interview with Sandi Swanton, History 150 Spring 2020, Conducted by Maxwell Frishkorn, 04/10/2020.

 

Biography: I am interviewing my mother, Sandra Swanton. She was born in Louisville, KY in 1960. After high school she attended Miami University and got her degree in Psychology. Afterwards, she went to graduate school at the University of Toledo, which is where she passed the Bar Exam at the end of Law School. Shortly there afterward she joined the air force, where she worked for twenty years, serving all over the world, and finally retiring in 2006 as a Major. A year later she was hired on behalf of the air force to work as a civilian on Langley Air Force Base in Hampton, VA. She has been working, reviewing contracts, dealing with labor, environmental, and other projects on base, and is considering retiring in 2023. During her air force experience, she had my older brother (born in 1998) and me (born in 2000). She is a single mother who raised both my brother and I while working as a lawyer for the entire duration of our lives.

Research Cited in MLA 8 Format:

“A record 8% of households with minor children in the United States are headed by a single father, up from just over 1% in 1960, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of Decennial Census and American Community Survey data.” This is relevant data pointing out the gender inequality when it comes to single parenthood. Although the gap has gotten smaller in the last 60 years, it is still obvious that many more single mothers are raising children in the US than their counterpart. This fact is common knowledge and is why it is easy to see a difference in the treatment of single fathers.

Livingston, Gretchen. “The Rise of Single Fathers.” Pew Research Center’s Social & Demographic Trends Project, Pew Research Center, 31 Dec. 2019, www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/07/02/the-rise-of-single-fathers/.

The Air Force has an “Exceptional Family Member Program (EFMP) Respite Care” which helps families “with children who have special needs.” The program is one of many that the military uses to aid parents. As discussed in the interview, there is more leave given to parents due to child sickness and other circumstances. Regrettably, this leave is not paid-leave, which seems unhelpful for young, working parents. It doesn’t look as though the military is changing much, as seen with this program being basically the same for more than a decade. It is now being done “internally” and not managed by an outside contractor, making the program less effective, perhaps.

“Exceptional Family Member (EFM) Respite Care.” Child Care Aware® of America, www.childcareaware.org/fee-assistancerespite/exceptional-family-member-program-efmp-respite-care/.

The generalizations of women being stay-at-home mothers and fathers having to bring home the “bacon” may be losing traction, but still exist. “These social stereotypes remain in spite of the fact that, within the last few decades, there has been a sharp increase in the number of mothers deciding to venture outside the home and into paid employment”. Although some parts of the country seem to be progressive, it is a deeply engrained idea in American society, so the general loss of these stereotypes will take generations. Surprisingly, in households with two parents, if the man becomes unemployed it is relatively likely that the woman will follow- for some reason or another.

“Working Mothers: The Effects on Society and Family.” Sociology Papers Working Mothers The Effects on Society and Family Comments, Sociology Papers, 2020, www.sociology-papers.com/working-mothers-the-effects-on-society-and-family.html.

Transcript:

Max Frishkorn  0:01

My name is Max Frishkorn. And I’m interviewing my mom, Sandi Swanton about being a single mother. So, Mom, how do you think society’s perspective on single mothers has changed in your lifetime?

Sandi Swanton  0:12

Oh, I’ve seen it change. I remember growing up on a street where we had a divorced mom and a couple of kids, and she was shunned. And, she also happened to work, which is was back then a double whammy. How dare you be divorced and how dare you work? Back then if you had children and you were divorced, and you work- you must have been a dreadful parent because only stay at home moms, and, by the way, it was always moms, it was never dads. Stay at home moms were the best kind of parent and divorced working kind were the absolute worst. That’s changed. Now of course, people don’t even ask what anyone’s status is.

Max Frishkorn  0:50

Has it changed like throughout your lifetime when you were a young adult? Do you think it was still at work?

Sandi Swanton  0:55

No, I got the benefit of by the time I ended up having kids and then ultimately was divorce. there really was no stigma, at least in this part of the US, perhaps in other small pockets there is. And also in the military since we travel around the world, and everybody’s from everywhere. We’re strange as it sounds, we’re a little bit more progressive with that idea.

Do you think the military has always been more progressive that I do with that particular idea with lots of other things? No. But yes, because we come from a cross section of society. And because we provide, we provide childcare, to military members, whether they’re single dads are the single moms that we always have. And we’ve always stressed women in the military and the numbers have gone up dramatically, just like they have in colleges.

Max Frishkorn  1:46

With that being said, how did your life change working in the military after having kids?

Sandi Swanton  1:54

Well, I actually had more freedom to take care of you all the military. Has you We always say 24 seven. But it also gives you the time off when your kids are sick, you don’t have to take time off, you don’t get charged time off. Families are really important in the military, and we get to take care of our families, we get to go to their school events without worrying about taking time off. Obviously, there’s different parts of the military different times that God can’t do that. But it actually it’s a pretty good thing. Overall, forgetting the fact that some people get deployed for six, 8, 12 months and multiple times. So that can that can be difficult. So you got to look at the whole picture and what works for you.

But I had the kind of job where I wasn’t being deployed. I wasn’t being sent TTY very often, you know, on business trips, so I got to stay home with you all.

Max Frishkorn  2:41

Do you think there’s a stigma in your job specifically being a lawyer being a single mom has that changed as society changed when it came to being a- I don’t know? Was there any type of thing there when you went to law school was there not very many female lawyers? How did that work?

Sandi Swanton  2:55

I’m trying to remember back in law school.

Probably just I’m not I’m not even sure how many women we had in there didn’t ever really register with me to be honest with you since I grew up. I grew up with boys and men. I just never honestly paid attention. Yeah.

Max Frishkorn  3:14

Why did you choose to be a lawyer?

Sandi Swanton  3:16

It goes back to third grade. Susan B. Anthony in the in the school play and Mrs. Stewart, my third grade English teacher mentioned something about being a lawyer. So that got the bugging me and from then on, that’s what I decided to do. And for better or worse, here, here I am. Yeah.

Max Frishkorn  3:36

Do you think society should make more changes in order to help single parents?

Sandi Swanton  3:41

I’m not so sure necessarily about single parents. I think parents generally and families, anybody with kids.

Obviously single parents have a little bit tougher. As I used to tell you guys you know, when whenever I needed to go out whether it was to get groceries or go to an appointment, when I was off of work You all had to come with me until you got older. There was no such thing as going anywhere without taking you guys.

Max Frishkorn  4:09

So do you think do you think there are less opportunities afforded you for being a single mother because you have more stuff going on?

Sandi Swanton  4:16

Now, I just wish our society had better, better childcare, like the rest of the civilized world does a station in Holland, and the rest of the world and Germany as well. They give you a lot of time off to parents, not just the the mom to parents, when you first have your baby. And over the course of the next few years, actually, and even kindergarten and skipping preschool is free in a lot of those countries and daycare as well. They have a different tact on the significance of family to society.

Max Frishkorn  4:48

So don’t you think there should be more leave given to parents when they have kids?

Sandi Swanton  4:54

Yeah, there should be more leave and we should have more opportunities for childcare that are more affordable so that people that Want to work can and it’s not going to take their whole paycheck to pay for childcare? Because you do hear about that-

Max Frishkorn  5:05

Opportunity cost to them?

Sandi Swanton  5:06

Yeah, yeah.

Max Frishkorn  5:08

What obstacles Do you think that you faced? Whether it’s being whether it’s because being a single mom or from your job? What obstacles Do you think being a single mom is like brought to you?

Sandi Swanton  5:21

Well, being an attorney and being an Air Force attorney, I was pretty limited. While I was actually on active duty with the Air Force, I always had to find care for you guys, if I had to go overnight anywhere. Thankfully, that didn’t happen often has, and I would have I had to be wherever the military was going to send me. And again, thankfully, I wasn’t deployed and we only got moved a couple of times, and you guys are pretty little and then I became a civilian, it was completely up to me to get a job where I want it and then I could stay there or quit if I wanted. So nobody’s moved us and it’s gonna come up on 12 years here. But otherwise, being a single parent. Again, just just refer especially when you’re when everybody’s younger when the kids are younger, because there’s just so many responsibilities with little kids that you don’t have now that you’re older.

Max Frishkorn  6:08

What do you think all those responsibilities are? Do you think they’re more on to you? Because you’re a working single mom compared if you were stay at home single mom, it wouldn’t be the biggest deal.

Sandi Swanton  6:18

Oh, God. Yeah, I mean, think about it. You don’t have another parent in the house. So, I have to do everything I have to take care of you, me the house my job when there’s another spouse in the family. You know, the ideal is that you help each other out whether it’s the kids, the family and each other. I never had any of that. It was just me always me. I never got a break. single parents never get a break. And I’m not complaining because that’s the other thing. Every once in a while, someone would say, well, gosh, you know, how do you do it? And frankly, single parents, they don’t even notice after a while. It’s just you have to do it. It’s kind of like brushing your teeth. You just do it and you don’t think about it. You move on. Interesting.

Max Frishkorn  6:59

Do you think in the future, do you think there will be laws or policies passed to help single parents in your position in a working position?

Sandi Swanton  7:07

I don’t know. I don’t think as much as our society doesn’t shun single parents and especially female ones, I think we still don’t pay attention to the family, overall family, whether it’s single parents or or two parents, we just we just don’t pay enough attention. We think as a society, we as a society, as a society, it’s not just a single parent thing. It’s a two-parent thing.

Max Frishkorn  7:32

What do you think- we’re headed that way? Because you said the military is already running around affordable health care, not healthcare, affordable childcare to the parents. And also, do you think as a society, we’re headed that way?

Sandi Swanton  7:41

I don’t know. I don’t see a whole lot of I don’t see a whole lot of evidence of that, to be honest with you. I mean, we have we’ve passed some laws, the Family Medical Leave Act that gives people 1212 weeks of unpaid leave, but frankly, most parents can’t afford to pay take unpaid leave. They need money. They need money in their pockets, too. pay for those kids and those family members they’re taking that lead for Yeah. So yeah. It’s kind of a half assed answer to it.

 

Max Frishkorn  8:07

Well, do you think like working the military is a bit of a blessing than having kids? How do you think you would have done it if you weren’t working as an attorney for the military?

 

Sandi Swanton  8:14

Yeah, like I said, and in some ways, the military is good, depending on the job you have in the military. Again, the job I had the type of job within the jag Corps, it could have been different in a different jag corps job. But I had I had enough freedom, being an attorney in the jag Corps and the couple of jobs that I finished with it, that let me take care of you guys as needed. Like Sam was really sick and then you were in a sick in the hospital for five days, and there was no blinking of eyes. I just, you know, took care of it.

Max Frishkorn  8:44

So do you think do you think there’s a difference at all between being a single mother and maybe being a single father and in society nowadays, do you think there’s different types of, I don’t know awards or opportunities granted, or help granted to single moms or single fathers

Sandi Swanton  9:00

Well, it’s kind of funny that actually made me think of spouses who are left behind military spouses while their husband or wife goes deployed. And we give extra attention to them, the organization that has the deployed spouse, you know, comes over to the house and calls them maybe cut the grass or do whatever, you know, because there’s, they’re what we call situational single parents. And yet real single parents never get any of that attention. Yeah. And honestly, since most single parents are female, and that’s become the norm over time, the men who are stay at home or not stay at home or single parents seem to get a lot more favorable attention. Yeah. You know, people think they’re tremendous for staying, or for taking care of their kids as single parents. Nobody ever says that to a single mom.

Max Frishkorn  9:49

Not to break into gender roles?

Sandi Swanton  9:50

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You’re breaking the gender roles, but you’re not doing anything different. But because you’re a man doing it. Yeah. Yeah. So, it’s kind of funny how that works out.

Max Frishkorn  10:00

Interesting. So, if you if you were to go back, would you have done it differently having kids when you had kids at you know, a later age? Would you have had us younger? Would you have waited until you’re out of the military?

Sandi Swanton  10:12

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. I don’t know.

Max Frishkorn  10:14

You don’t know. You don’t think about it?

Sandi Swanton  10:15

Yeah. I mean, Sam was a happy surprise. And you were happy planned event because we loved him so much. But if I’d been doing something else other than the military, who knows? I have no idea. Who knows? I’m not sure anybody can answer that question. People so called plan for having kids but plans usually don’t work out.

Max Frishkorn  10:39

Yeah. Do you like being single mom?

Sandi Swanton  10:42

Yeah, it’s worked out so far. It was better than the alternative at the time. Yeah, that’s true.

 

Max Frishkorn  10:48

That’s funny.

Sandi Swanton  10:49

Oh, yeah. Yeah, you guys were pretty easy. Fact. Sam was just talking today since I gave him an early birthday present that you guys have never really asked for anything even. We’re near literally kids. at Christmas time you never had the Christmas list and when we were going through store you were never the kids crying saying I want this get me that you guys have always been pretty easy.

Max Frishkorn  11:10

Do you think being a single mom was a learning experience? Did you did you gain character traits from it?

Sandi Swanton  11:17

I got really tired. I think that’s the thing. There’s no break. It’s you’re on all the time. There’s nobody that can take. Take it from you all your single parent. You learn how to prioritize. I probably would have had a cleaner house if I didn’t have kids that again, if I had a spouse, I’d probably still feel the same way. But yeah, some of the things that are priority priorities to you even while you’re married and have kids don’t turn out to be the same priorities when you have single when you’re single parents simply because you don’t have the time. You don’t have the energy to do this. Yes. That’s not the truth.

Max Frishkorn  11:58

What, you said you said being a single mom gave you a lot of freedom, but what type of freedom do you think it took away? Did it take away from any, any outings? Any?

Sandi Swanton  12:06

Oh yeah, again cause when up until the age of 12 really 10 for you for going to school on your own. But up until that age, you guys had to go everywhere with me. So, there was no Hey, okay, Hey guys, we’ll be back in an hour or two, I’m going to go shopping or Hey, I’m going to go out and see a movie. I’ll be back in three or four hours or, hey, I’m going out with my friends or going out for a run. See, you know, you guys had to go everywhere with me. You remember we had a Baby Jogger? Yeah. And had a double Yeah, I used to push both of you, which is exponentially more difficult than one. And then when Sam grew out of it, then he would ride his bike and I would push you and that’s how I got my runs in fun. Yeah, but there was no Hey, I’ll be back in a little while. No, he went everywhere with me-

Max Frishkorn  12:52

Was that a big sacrifice at the time?

Sandi Swanton  12:54

It takes some getting used to and then again, it just becomes the norm that you don’t even think about it. But you do your life does change because of it because you can’t do all those things.

Max Frishkorn  13:05

When you see other single moms or single parents in general, what’s the first thing that pops into your mind?

Sandi Swanton  13:11

Um, I just know what they’re going through. Yeah-

Max Frishkorn  13:15

A little bit of respect?

Sandi Swanton  13:17

Yeah, yeah. And, yeah. Yeah. Because it wears you out. It wears you out you do the best you can. And then you hope that your kids realize that later when they get older. What how it all happened and not that anyone ever would really but yeah-

Max Frishkorn  13:34

Don’t put you right in a home soon as soon as they roll out of the house?

Sandi Swanton  13:40

next year or something?

Max Frishkorn  13:42

Yeah, yeah. About that age.

Sandi Swanton  13:44

Yeah. Well, honestly, when I hear about single parents, I honestly don’t even think twice about it anymore because things have changed so much. And the other thing it’s funny because this all plays into the military But the other thing is lots of lots of single parents have family and friends that can help them out in the military, not so much because we travel so much, I never had family to help me out. And you’re not around long enough, no one wants to look after your kids three or four nights a week or, you know, for an hour every day while you go for a run. So just some of that stuff. Because the military wasn’t even possible. And there are plenty of civilians who aren’t part of the military don’t have any hope either.

Max Frishkorn  14:29

Yeah. What do you think you think they should society should just give single parents a helping hand somehow, like more money or healthcare that’s almost free or-?

Sandi Swanton  14:40

Yeah, those are those are different things. I think, again, that’s it goes back to be a family. It’s I don’t think single parents especially should get anything special. But I think that we should probably provide more time off for parents provide. Reduces Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. take leave and Provide a reduced preschool and an after school because people forget that even when your kids are out of preschool, they got to go to school and eat before and after care. And you got to get up. You know, and that’s the other thing you got to race to get there at the end of the day or you get in big trouble. You can lose your spot and you always have to pay a fine. I mean, just little things. It’s like you can’t even stay late at work because you got to pick up your kids and then your boss doesn’t necessarily like that idea.

 

Max Frishkorn  15:24

Yeah. All right. Well, I appreciate your time for the interview, Ma.

 

Overview: The entire interview was done over the kitchen table. No editing went into the recording after the interview was over. All in all, I used my computer’s voice recording app along with a Blue Yeti Microphone to pick up our voices. Everything was converted to an MP3 afterwards and transcribed.

How was it? The interview flowed nicely with many questions going off-script. Next time, I would prepare many more questions, and try to ask for more detailed answers. We diverged a few times to talk about family matters, and that was positive- it kept the interview feeling nice and friendly.