Interview with Patricia Giroux, History 150 Spring 2020, Conducted by Matthew Giroux, April 1st, 2020
I am interviewing my mother, Patricia Giroux. She grew up in New Jersey with both parents and two brothers, one younger and one older. From an extremely young age she knew that she wanted to be a teacher. She also always knew that she loved children and wanted to have them. She’s a very motivated person that knows what she wants and goes and gets it. She ended up fulfilling her goal of being an elementary school teacher, and then, through a co-worker, she met my dad. Up to that point, she had had minimal experience with special needs students. That changed when her first son, my older brother, was born with special needs.
Research:
Up until 1975, there was no public education for special needs students. Parents of children with special needs had three options: 1) pursue private education, 2) educate their child at home, or 3) neglect to educate them at all. The Education for All Handicapped Children Act brought funding into public schooling to create programs for students who did not learn the same as all other children. This act eventually evolved into the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act of 2004, which even further expanded funding and rights for students with disabilities. A large reason for the push for education for special needs children was Supreme Court decision, Brown vs. The Board of Education in 1954. The victory against desegregation led to various parents taking lawsuits against the school system for segregation and unequal treatment towards children with disabilities. This led to various court cases that eventually led to the current situation of special education in the United States.
“The History of Special Education in the U.S.: A-State Online.” A, 14 July 2016, degree.astate.edu/articles/k-12-education/the-history-of-special-education-in-the-u-s.aspx.
“The History of Special Education Law.” Wrightslaw, www.wrightslaw.com/law/art/history.spec.ed.law.htm.
Lee, Andrew M I. “Individuals With Disabilities Education Act (IDEA): What You Need to Know.” Individuals With Disabilities Education Act, Understood, 4 Feb. 2020, www.understood.org/en/school-learning/your-childs-rights/basics-about-childs-rights/individuals-with-disabilities-education-act-idea-what-you-need-to-know.
Matthew Giroux 0:02
All right, so my name is Matthew Giroux and I’m here interviewing my mother Patricia Giroux about social change and education and special needs and special needs education. So mom, if you want to say hi, hello. So my mom always knew she wanted to be a teacher. So first off, I’d like to ask you, why did you always know that?
Patricia Giroux 0:26
I’m not sure. I just loved elementary school. I loved everything about it. I loved learning. I love going over the social part of it. I love the teachers. I love the decorations. I just loved it all. And so I always wanted to be a teacher.
Matthew Giroux 0:43
And you started off third grade, and you’re now [teaching] kindergarten.
Patricia Giroux 0:48
So I was hired as third grade I interviewed for second, third and fifth grade positions. And I really wanted to work at one school that had the fifth grade position but the people who hired me at that time all felt that I was more geared towards younger. So I was hired for third grade which was a lovely grade to teach for the eight years that I did teach it.
Matthew Giroux 1:15
Did you want to change to kindergarten or…?
Patricia Giroux 1:17
No so I went into reading recovery and at that time my oldest, we were starting to realize had some special needs. So I wanted to be home with the family and one of my supervisors offered me the Reading Recovery position. So then when my youngest (you) got older and I was ready to go back full time I was allowed to choose any of the grades I wanted to at that time.There so happened to be about five positions that year. And that took a lot of thought and my friends wanted me to come back to third. But I was like, I know I’ve already done that. And I wanted to try something new. And since I already had a Reading Recovery background with early literacy, it really made the most sense to go to kindergarten.
Matthew Giroux 2:12
So you mentioned my brother who has special needs. So I’d like to take you a little bit of time to ask a little bit about special needs and special education. So what kind of special education was around when you were a kid? Because obviously I wouldn’t know what that was.
Patricia Giroux 2:28
So there wasn’t a lot. There were mainly children who went to speech. I have this very vivid memory in fourth grade at one of our elementary schools, which is now our administration building, which was closed at that time and the children were dispersed among the Marlton schools. And this one boy really, really struggled and I can remember in fourth grade, and I didn’t have the kindest teacher in fourth grade, and I can remember being out on the playground and we were playing dodgeball and the teachers were standing around and I remember the teacher saying about him at one point “Hope you don’t get that one next year. He’s a mess.” And that has always stuck with me since I was in the fourth grade.
Matthew Giroux 3:15
Do you think they were just they were they actually like mean, are they just ignorant?
Patricia Giroux 3:20
Well, she was mean. And I do think because even special education has evolved so much since I went to college to now that they just didn’t have the same experiences. Everybody had to be the same. And that’s just how it was there wasn’t that whole individualism.
Matthew Giroux 3:39
So, you mentioned college um, was there any emphasis or like, what do you guys how did you guys address the topic of special education. Were their people who went for it? Because I know people now will go and actually major in special education like Trevor, my friend, his sister. That’s actually what she wants to go into.
Patricia Giroux 3:56
So I didn’t know anybody but I went to a small college and we had the smallest education class going through. There were only 11 girls in the elementary and there was a secondary education as well. But so us 11 girls went all the way through together. And we had like special education classes. But because it wasn’t really well known, there wasn’t a lot of emphasis on it and there and we didn’t really have opportunities to go into special education classrooms and modify, you know, different lessons or find different ways. So no, it really wasn’t something I knew too much about.
Matthew Giroux 4:35
And have you talked to anyone, any of your co workers that have like come out of college more recently, where it’s different, obviously, I don’t know if that’s something you would talk about, but…
Patricia Giroux 4:43
Yeah, we do. It’s definitely a lot different.
Matthew Giroux 4:46
Just the whole curriculum.
Patricia Giroux 4:48
Yeah, well, everything is more vigorous and so they definitely do a lot more. And I think I would have been overwhelmed sometimes when I hear what they do being an 18-19 year old woman, you know. It’s different being older and having experienced it and the changes have gone, it’s made it so much easier for me to watch the changes and to kind of evolve with them slowly.
Matthew Giroux 5:12
So is there anything specific about – was there like a certain or specific thing, a certain point where you felt like special education changed?
Patricia Giroux 5:21
Um, I don’t know if it changed or I became more aware. So you know, so when I first started teaching, we homogeneously grouped children and I lots of times got the low reading kids. And then I had the average math for a while. And there was a huge difference in those children. So we were supposed to modify and do different activities and things like that. But and then we start to get the special education into our buildings, but special education 20 years ago, looks a lot different than it does now. So those children that were in special education then most likely would not be now, they would be in a regular classroom or inclusion situation with modified programs.
Matthew Giroux 6:10
So how does it look different than it did?
Patricia Giroux 6:13
Special Education is more severe academic and emotional and social issues. Where it tended to be more just academic back then.
Matthew Giroux 6:23
Yeah, people are just a little bit, you know, not unintelligent, but if they’re struggling a little bit they would be put there.
Patricia Giroux 6:30
Yes.
Matthew Giroux 6:32
And you said you became more aware. So I assuming raising my brother had a lot to do with that. So how did you-
Patricia Giroux 6:39
So there’s two things that really made me aware; when I trained and worked reading recovery, which was for at risk readers in first grade, and at the same time, Timothy was 18 months old when I took on that role. So that learning about special education and I’m putting him in the preschool disabled class and then emotionally handicapped, and then in the learning disabled, and then having him mainstreamed and learning about sensory integration and about emotional issues and all of that, along with what I was learning in the literacy area about children who struggle in reading all, I think the combination made me so aware. And then also, Timothy, being involved with other special needs children, getting to talk to those parents and talking about their needs and what they’re doing and who they’re seeing and what doctors and their modifications impacted me as probably a parent and a teacher – significantly as a teacher.
Matthew Giroux 7:46
Yeah, so how exactly would that change the way you taught your students? Because you see how each student requires a lot specific things.
Patricia Giroux 7:57
Well it changed and I have to say, so having children on two ends of the spectrum, one who never struggled in school, Matthew, and then one who did, but worked very, very hard at what he did, has made me very aware of the needs of both the higher and the lower children. My gut feeling always is that the higher kids will be okay, they will be fine. The problem is if you don’t give them enough or give them enough challenges, they become behavior issues. So monitoring that, while you’re dealing with children who academically and emotionally are very low, can be quite a challenge and a frustration. So it’s taught me how to be flexible, how to modify how to be open to different learning styles, and it’s made me research and talk and go to workshops and so that I feel like I’m a more effective teacher than I used to be.
Matthew Giroux 9:03
Um, so obviously raising my brother, like putting him through the special education system was a lot different experience than what I got. So what were some of those, you know, unique challenges that come with having a student in special needs program? Dealing with different teachers than me?
Patricia Giroux 9:21
Well, I was fortunate enough that Timothy went through the same school system that I was teaching. So I had a lot of people on my side and one of the curriculum, one of my supervisors was also my very good friend, we trained Reading Recovery together. So I didn’t have some of the same challenges other people did, because I was in and I could ask the questions, but I did watch, like friends, not colleagues, but friends have challenges with their kids and I had to keep my mouth shut. So that was, that was a very tricky part for me, I think. I was always open to listening to the teachers. I definitely, when he was younger, had more direct ideas of what I wanted for him, so I wanted him to make it out of MH (mobily handicapped) and go into LD (learning disabled). And when he was an LD, I wanted him to be mainstreamed. And then he came across one very difficult teacher and in fifth grade and it flattened his self esteem. It was just not a good setup. She is not a strong teacher. And so I had to like kind of take a step back from what I had anticipated, and put him back in a mobibly handicap which wound up being the best thing for him. So you have to listen, you have to be open. You have to be willing to be flexible and change. And,again, you need to work with everybody.
Matthew Giroux 10:46
Did you see a lot of parents like other parents of kids with special needs, not being flexible and trying to force their kids to go into higher level classes for no reason?
Patricia Giroux 10:56
Yes and this was a time where the Responsive Classroom and morning meeting was starting and everything like that and and they had to go to all their specials with a class and they had to go to and they’d have to be split up his LD class, he’d be split up, and I would get so angry and I’d say why, why? Why can’t they come to his morning meeting? Why does he have to go to them all the time? Or why can’t they have the party in his room where he’s comfortable? So I wasn’t always for mainstreaming because it always wasn’t always the best thing for him.
Matthew Giroux 11:31
No, no, definitely not. What would you say, why do you think special education is so important? Like not just for Tim but in general for everybody.
Patricia Giroux 11:48
It’s hard to say because you’ve got everything from mildly handicapped to autism to learning disabled, to emotionally disturbed to just inclusion classrooms. There’s so many different ways you can go. So I think it’s just important to have to understand that everybody’s got different needs. And you’ve got to find the solution that fits the best for the child. I can’t stand putting a square peg into a round hole, but it’s a public school system. And that happens. There’s only so many options. And parents just need to be informed and advocates. But then again, not everybody has an education background. So it’s hard for them to understand the system. I basically got what I needed all the way through. I did even in high school when we were out of our school system. I worked well with everybody and got Timothy everything he needed.
Matthew Giroux 12:43
They were very nice people as I met a bunch of them.
Patricia Giroux 12:46
They were. They were they also knew I was a parent that was on top of the situation and I was also willing to work with them. So it was a little give and take situation.
Matthew Giroux 12:55
Yeah, you have to be flexible on both ends. So I have two final questions for you. First one, what would you say is the most difficult part of raising a child with special needs?
Patricia Giroux 13:07
The emotions, his and mine.
Matthew Giroux 13:13
It’s unexpected.
Patricia Giroux 13:14
It is. I, you, go through periods of almost grief. And I said that there would be like, the disbelief, there would be the anger, there would be the sadness. It was almost like grieving the child, you’d always expected. You dream of having this child in this life and being a parent and doing these things with this kid and and that child doesn’t do it for you. And so you have to go through that. And then they also have emotional issues because sensory issues or auditory issues or whatever else, and so you’ve got to learn to adjust so they’re emotionally not capable all the time. So it’s, it’s tricky.
Matthew Giroux 13:54
But I’d like to finish with the final question. I’d like to finish and agree what do you think what’s the best part because I mean, it’s easy to complain about. I mean, how things didn’t work out. But, Tim, we all love him. He’s one of the nicest people I’ve ever met. So what would you say the best part of it all?
Patricia Giroux 14:11
Well, now we’re, you know, I’m a little more involved in an adult special needs community. I think, I think just the loving the, I don’t know, it’s, it’s almost like still living with a 10 year old sometimes, where he can just be so excited about the littlest things and, and always, and sometimes always just knowing you have a child with you all the time. Though we do try to get him out but I think just knowing that he’s a great person.
Matthew Giroux 14:44
And he really truly is. I mean, for me personally, just the fact that I’ve been introduced to so many other people, especially in his community, and they are some really nice people. I’m very, very appreciative for that.
Patricia Giroux 14:56
Yeah, it’s been a great road.
Matthew Giroux 15:00
I just can’t imagine it any other way than this one.
Patricia Giroux 15:02
No, I used to always say, God only gives you what you can handle and I use and he was a gift from God because he taught us so much as a family as a parent as a teacher. And just watching him get so excited about different things. It’s fun. It’s fun for me.
Matthew Giroux 15:20
All right. Well, thank you for your time.
Patricia Giroux 15:22
You’re welcome. It was a pleasure.
- This interview was conducted in person. I had to make minimal edits, as the audio was rather clear. I just had to fix some things that didn’t translate very well to text. We performed the interview in my room and made sure that the rest of our family knew not to disturb us. The main obstacle was our lack of mics or other quality audio equipment, but we made do with an app on my phone. I then uploaded it to OneDrive and downloaded it onto my computer.
- I believe that the interview went rather well. There were a few times where I stumbled over my words and phrased questions a little less eloquently than I would have liked, but overall I felt it was very successful. Going off script for me was difficult, but when I was genuinely wondering something I found it flowed much better. It helped that my mom and I are very close so there was no awkwardness. I enjoyed getting to know a little bit more about my mom’s career as well.