This was recorded in person with the speaker on my laptop. In doing this again I would try to use a better quality microphone and help her stay more streamlined on the questions. 

Joyce Ann Thompson was born in Crab Orchard, WV in 1941 – a mining town outside of Beckley, where her father, Sam, worked. When she was 9, Sam passed away and was survived by his wife, Lessie, my grandma, and her two younger sisters, Fran and Betty. In junior high, her school was one of the first to be integrated. She went to high school in Beckley and was studying to be a nurse and ended working at a Baltimore hospital during the Vietnam war, where she met my grandpa. They later got married and had 3 children and live in Harrisonburg.

KL: [00:00:00] Okay, I’ll just set it right here. I think that should be good. I think it should just pick it up. So first of all, what like what was you grow up in Crab Orchard? Is that right? What was that?

JL:  It was a very small little town. You knew your neighbors pretty much all over all. We went to one school to the 8th grade and then they built a new school and well, we went to one school until the fourth grade I think and [00:01:00] then they built a new school and we went fourth to the eighth grade and then in the ninth grade, we went to a junior high school and that was in Beckley and they’d pick us up on the bus and take us and then 10th, 11th, and 12th. We went to Woodrow Wilson High School that was another school, so there’s where I graduated from.

KL: So was did you go to school first in Crab Orchard? Was Crab  Orchard part of Beckley or is it a different place than –

JL:— it’s a little town outside of Beckley.

KL: Do you remember like the demographics of like Crab Orchard and Beckley like do you remember interacting with a lot of people who weren’t white or was it mostly whites?

JL: They were [00:02:00] mostly white and when I was in high school, that was year that segregation was….

KL: …outlawed?

JL:  And we had one colored person in junior high where I was where I went to school when I got to Junior High.

KL: Is that — I read here somewhere that said Stratton high school was integrated into Woodrow Wilson High School. And that would have been your high school right?

JL: Woodrow Wilson. Yeah, because that’s the– Stratton was the black school, yes.

KL: Okay. That’s what  – I did some research on it before.

JL: Oh! You did? You did good! I’d even forgot that part.  

KL: Thanks. Um, oh and was Crab Orchard a like a mining town or was it like a like was it one of those that like had their own currency and stuff or was it not like that?

JL: Yeah, I guess they did they had scrip.

KL: Yeah, that’s what – okay, I’d just forgot what it was [00:03:00] called.

JL: It was called Scrip. Yeah well and yeah, there was a little mine down there and I remember the railroad tracks going through. Was-wasn’t much but…  wasn’t a big mining town, but it was a mining town.

KL: And most people worked there, I guess? And did your dad work in the mine – Did he drive trucks for the mine or did he work IN it?

JL: No he drove the truck.

KL: Yeah

JL: And he hauled the mail some too, in my lifetime. I don’t remember much because he died when I was in second grade, so. I don’t remember much about what he – what all he did.

KL: Yeah, that makes sense. Umm, Do you remember any laws that would affect how people who weren’t white could act in Beckley or Crab Orchard like were there still Jim Crow laws at the time?

JL: (at this point she whispers to me that she doesn’t know – that’s why we’re laughing)I don’t know about that. [00:04:00] It was one black girl that came to the…. … High School when in the laws were changed.

KL: Yeah.

JL: Yeah and we’d sit with her in the auditorium before school started all the time.

KL: Oh really? Did, you know her well, like were you guys friends?

JL: Yeah we got to be friends. But I mean not –  yeah, I didn’t visit outside of school, but we always sit with her when we got to school in the morning in the auditorium before school started.

KL: Oh, that’s fun. That’s good. Was it weird when she came or was it just kind of just kind of…

JL: — just natural.

KL: Yeah, oh that’s good.

JL: We accepted or her [yeah] or she accepted us or we got along yeah. we looked forward to sitting with each other [yeah] every day.

KL: Yeah, that’s good. Were there… oh! And where there are people who didn’t want the school to be integrated?

JL: I’m sure there were but I didn’t see it. [yeah] or hear it.

KL: Yeah, because a lot of times like when you hear about schools being [00:05:00] integrated like you it’s a long with those like really angry people.

JL: (here, she remembered that her best friend was Marjie Byrd, who was Senator Robert Byrd’s daughter)Margie Byrd – Senator Byrd’s daughter went to Junior High School. Yeah. Yeah if you want to yeah, that’s that’s true.

KL: So did she have a reaction to that?

JL: No

KL: She didn’t care either ?

JL: Her dad and mom — she lived with her grandma and they lived in… DC. Yeah. Yeah see and but we got along great. We did lots of stuff together her sister went to Sophie high school for some reason and Margie went to uh junior high where I went hmm, then when I guess when she when she would have got to the high school age I guess. I think they then that’s when they moved to Washington  

KL: okay, to be with their parents?

JL: Yeah. Yeah, I think yeah, but I [00:06:00] mean she was there when we first started junior high.

KL: Yeah, so her dad probably wouldn’t have been like super great with integration, but she was fine with it.

JL: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah like where we went to church he… had a bible –  they went to church where we went. Hmm, and he started a Sunday school class, and as far as I know, it’s probably still called Byrd Bible class.

KL: That’s cool. Yeah.

JL: (laughs)But im getting off subject

KL: that’s okay.

JL: But you’re recording.

KL: No, that’s okay. Um, and then this is kind of another question about the girl who was at school. Like did she face any obstacles that you know of that she wouldn’t have faced if she had been white or was it just kind–

JL: –it was just kind of natural.

KL: That makes sense. Yeah.

JL: We’d just sit together.

KL: Was she involved in a lot of stuff or do you know or?

JL: I don’t know.

KL: [00:07:00] Yeah. Yeah.

JL: I don’t think either one of us were because we had to ride the buses and [hmm] It was hard to get back and forth. And yeah, we didn’t have good transportation.

KL: Yeah.

JL: Your parents didn’t have good transportation to get you there, you didn’t join in much.

KL: Yeah, that makes sense.

JL: We did more things with church in Crab Orchard than we did with school that was too hard to get back for. [It] wasn’t as accessible with cars and things then as it is today, I think yeah for most children or young people.

KL: Yeah, that makes sense. So then I have – well then I have did you have classes with the kids from Stratton? But did you have classes together with her? Were you guys in the same grade?

JL: Yeah. But I don’t think she was from Stratton [okay] but that was the black school.

KL: Yeah. Okay.

JL: I don’t know where she really came from. I don’t remember.

KL: Did you have [00:08:00] classes with her though, or did you just sit with her in the auditorium?

JL: I just had — just sit with her in Auditorium. Hmm, but it might have been some more black people that I didn’t really get to know ya in my classes. I think we just accepted it. Mmm.

KL: Yeah, I think I’m not sure what year, they integrated Woodrow Wilson, but I think it was not sure but it would have been right around then. So I just wanted to I just want to put that in there. But yeah.

JL: It was in junior high I think that’d be 9th grade.  I don’t know how old I was then.

KL: Yeah, that’s okay. I guess I could look that up. I have the link here that I could look that up. Um, okay. Okay, so then in nurses training, so did you have to go to college to go to nurses training or was that like kind of college?

JL: Yeah, that was college.

KL: And where was what nurses training was that?

JL: Montgomery

KL: Montgomery

JL: […] Memorial Hospital.

KL: Okay

JL: Our pastor helped us get in [00:09:00] and he took us the first day down there.

KL: Was that far from Beckley or

JL: … Montgomery it was about forty Miles, I think from where we lived.

KL: That’s cool that he took you down there.

JL: Yes. He wanted us to go. I think it was four or five of us went down there.

KL: Had you wanted to be a nurse from when you were little or –

JL: –yes, yeah.

KL: Yeah and who all went there was like he said you said that he took the all of you, so…

JL: It was another girl that lived next door to us. Okay, and I don’t know – and two more. They were from Crab Orchard too.

KL: So then was there diversity in nurses training?

JL: Was what?

KL: Diversity –  like was everybody white or were there people of color there as well?

JL: I don’t remember any of color. [00:10:00] Uh… Dr. Laird. was the doctor that had the hospital over it took care of the hospital in Montgomery. Mmm. He was very well, liked or well, uhh..

KL: Popular? Yeah.

JL: Yeah.

KL: Yeah was and wherever in Montgomery, is that where it was, is that a town?

JL: Yeah

KL: Did you see any like things about race there that were different than Crab Orchard or Beckley was it bigger or smaller or…

JL: It was bigger.  It – West Virginia Tech was there.

KL: Okay. Okay.

JL: Yeah, across the railroad tracks.

KL: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, and then how did you get from nurses training to being in Baltimore?  Like [00:11:00] what was the chain of events that happened to get you to Baltimore?

JL: (I think she is whispering here that she doesn’t remember exactly)

KL: That’s okay. Was it where you there around? Was there a war the time like was it around the time of the Vietnam War?

(She is here asking my grandpa about the war – he has alzheimer’s and struggles to communicate which is why it takes some time for him to respond)(to him)

JL: Was the war in Vietnam war going on when you were in Spring Grove?

WL: What?

JL:(To him)Was the war going on? (To me)I guess because he did it for a conscientious objector. (to him)When you went to Spring Grove was a war going on.

WL: Yeah.

JL: (to me)Okay, that’s part of the reason he would. Because well he went to the Brethren Church.

KL: Yeah, I didn’t, I was a Baptist.  

JL: Huh – I found that too – I was trying to look up what hospital it probably would have been at and I came up with spring [00:12:00] grove, huh. It was Ken’s and Clark[…]. That’s where they send us to after we went to Spring Grove.

KL: So did you finish nurses training before you went to –

JL: –no.  

KL: So did you have to go to Baltimore like suddenly like was there’s–

JL: — no we knew when we were going.

KL: Okay.

JL: You had three months you had to go stay.

KL: Oh was it for nurses training?

JL: Yeah it was psychiatric affiliation. We had to learn how to live with and learn how to take care of people with mental health issues.

KL: So you guys were both in the mental hospital there?

JL: Yeah, that’s where I met Winston.

KL: Okay, okay.

JL: He stayed two years. (to him)You stayed two years didn’t you, stayed two years in Baltimore?

KL: Baltimore?

JL: Yeah. (to him)You stayed two years?

KL: Okay. Okay that makes sense

JL: and I came home and then [00:13:00] later one day he called and we started seeing each other. He enters.

KL: Yeah, that’s funny. I didn’t know that. I didn’t know how you guys met or like how you guys went from being like meeting to like seeing each other that makes sense, he called you up one day.

JL: Yep, right out of the clear blue sky.

KL: That’s funny. Did you notice a big difference in how like what the racial diversity was in from Beckley / Montgomery to Baltimore?

JL: I’m sure there was but I didn’t really notice it.

KL: I was wondering if like the people that you were working with… Wouldve –  it seems like there would be more diversity in Baltimore than West Virginia.

JL: Oh Yes. I’m sure there was. It’s still we had just certain things we could do and we were very restricted on what we could do and we had to behave ourselves.

KL: Yeah. [00:14:00] Yeah, that’s good.

JL: I mean we will do people he had house mothers or people that.  You had to sign in and out.

KL: So when you talk about the house mother was that in Baltimore that you had that or-

JL: – no that was in Montgomery mainly, but we lived in uh –  I don’t know who took care of us or who ruled, but I’m sure we had to sign in and sign out, probably when we went anywhere; did anything and it was on a campus of Spring Grove Hospital so we could walk wherever we needed to walk. Okay, and when he went we had to go but we didn’t have to go there be on the – be at work.

KL: That makes sense. Yeah. So was there I think there was I think the Vietnam War was going on but that wasn’t really like involved in what …It more involved in what he was probably doing than what… [maybe]and that’s what he was doing his –

JL: yeah. He was yeah. [00:15:00] For Church. Yes serving his service term.

KL: Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, because so so he was drafted – would  that be right?

JL: Yeah.

KL: There was a draft going on that one. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. Um, and then I also had asked if – one of my questions was like in the hospital where you worked if there – if the patients were just mostly white or if they were because some some hospitals probably —

JL: —they were mixed, yeah definitely mixed

KL: yeah. Okay, and was there any like just was there a lot of racism then like would people be treated differently if they were?

JL: No, I don’t think so. Yeah, we’d have got thrown out if we were

KL: oh really? Well, that’s good. I think a lot of places like down south. They definitely would have been treated more poorly if they weren’t white.

JL: So that’s…

KL: No, we did we had to respect them.  Rules were really in effect.

JL: oh really? Yeah, that’s good. [00:16:00] that’s good. Yeah, so that’s. Doesn’t my questions but I have in the others over here.  

This interview did not go as planned in the sense that I thought my grandma would be more prejudiced than she was and then she didn’t have a ton to things to say about race. I also was under the impression, before the interview, that she had quite a bit to say about race, and then I think being recorded freaked her out a bit. However, it think that it shows a culture that was very prominent at the time. My grandma was working in a military hospital during the Vietnam war, and she didn’t even know that the war was going on at the time. I think this interview portrays race, civilians’ attitudes during war, and social change. In this time, we know everything that goes on in every corner of the world, so the idea that someone could be so close to a war and not know it was going on is crazy to me. This displays change in how and how quickly we receive information and how much value we give to it, which is something that i hadn’t given much thought to before. So, while the interview did not go as planned – I think it is still very valuable and speaks volumes in terms of recording oral history.

The Washington Post, WP Company, www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/18/AR2005061801105_pf.html.

This citation is interesting – as it details the way that Senator Byrd used the KKK to help him gain political power – its very odd in my opinion that one could use KKK to advance in anything, but in this article it talks about Byrd using his KKK connections to gain support from a ” group of elites — doctors, lawyers, clergy, judges and other “upstanding people”‘. I find it odd that my grandma would in no way associate her friend Marjie with racism, even though Robert Byrd was her father. I think this is one of the many examples of simply how uninformed my grandma was, growing up, about the things going on directly around her.

RUST BELT, www.coalcampusa.com/sowv/gulf/crab_orchard/crab_orchard.htm.

This is helpful because I’d heard about but never actually had images to go with what Crab Orchard was. It’s interesting to me that when looking at these pictures. It is nice to have pictures in my mind of what she would have grown up with.

 

“Early African American Education: Stratton High School, Beckley, WV.” National Parks Service, U.S. Department of the Interior, www.nps.gov/neri/planyourvisit/early-african-american-education-stratton-high-school-beckley-wv.htm.

Researching integration in West Virginia really helped with the interview as I was able to help jog her memory with some names of places she might’ve recognized, like knowing about the name of her high school.

 

“Segregation: Hinton, WV.” National Parks Service, U.S. Department of the Interior, www.nps.gov/neri/planyourvisit/segregation-hinton-wv.htm.

This was interesting to me – I thought that my grandma would’ve grown up in a very racist culture, which is supported by this, so it’s interesting that she was able come out of it with minimal prejudices.