A. Interview Subject: Julie Mays. Interviewed on March 7, 2019.

B. Our Interview was done in person in my home. My dogs were also home so that caused a couple of sounds in the background of the audio. I did not find myself editing the audio very much though. I did edit the trascript because I realized many of our answers were long sentences with many conjunctions. She sat across from me at our dining room table, and I used my phone to record the interview. I tried to prepare as quiet of a space as possible; however, my dogs made a sound at the door. That was the only outside issue I ran into. The main issue we ran into was that my interview subject had caught a bad case of the norovirus a few days before our interview. We were still able to get through the talk with limited coughing. Something readers might notice is that my questions for the interviewee were longer at the time. This was because I noticed during sensitive topics my interview subject needed a couple of extra seconds to compose, so I decided to extend my questions a little further during times I thought she might need a tiny break. In the audio, there are moments when emotions made it hard to hear, so I am hoping the transcript helps with what is being said.

C. My interview subject’s full name is Julie Mays, my grandmother. She was born in the late 1960s and raised in the Shenandoah Valley. She had her first child, my mother, very young in her final year of high school. She went through the struggles of being a mother in the home. She also has been through many jobs that were both traditional and nontraditional female jobs. She has held many different positions like being a high-ranking prison guard to being a factory line worker. She also found herself trying to improve her life by going to college later in her adult life. She is such an inspiration to me and a perfect interview subject to speak on gender social change.

D. I chose to do some research on things that occurred in my interview subject’s past. Through google books, I researched information on female prison guards, life in the 1970s, and the traditional place of women in the home. In the book Prison Masculinities, I found that certain prisons give fewer rules to female guards, and I’d like to ask my interview subject if this was the case in her position. I would like to learn more about female prison guards because it is so rare. I found it hard to find information on the topic because of how rare a female prison guard is. Next, I looked in a book titled The 1970s  because I thought researching the time period would help me prepare for my interview by getting me into the mindset of what growing up in 1970s was like. I also wanted to consider what in history would be influencing people during that time. A lot of what would have affected my grandmother in her teens and young 20s was inflation. For example, the price of a new home almost tripled from her high school years by the time my grandmother would have been buying. The last book I found was titled A Woman’s Place: a Christian Vision for Your Calling in the Office, the Home, and the World. This book spoke a lot of women in my grandmother’s position. It spoke of how the home life would be strained when the wife and husband both worked jobs, while the kids also needed tending to. I asked my interviewed subject a lot about this to see what she could confirm. 

1. 1. Sabo, Don F., et al. Prison Masculinities. Temple University Press, 2001.
   2. Hamilton, Neil A. The 1970s. Facts On File, 2006.
   3. Beaty, Katelyn, and Christine Caine. A Woman’s Place: a Christian Vision for Your Calling in the Office, the Home, and the World. Howard Books, 2017.

Transcript

HL: Can you describe growing up in the 60/70s?

IS: Well…I don’t remember a whole lot about my childhood. Uhm..

HL: and why is that?

[we laugh]

IS: It’s a big blur. No. Uh let me think about my childhood. Mm. Unique childhood in many ways. Lived in Virginia most all of my live. Riverdale, Maryland for several years that I recall and moved to Virginia actually when I was seven and going into the second grade. But because of the very big difference in the school system between Maryland and Virginia, I was put back to first grade. I was way below their learning level.

[she began to get emotional]

IS: I hated that. Hated it. Could still cry. Most embarrassing…it was very embarrassing. Big change in our life at that time. My mother had left my father, and moved us to Virginia. And then issues with school was very tough. I’ll never forget, its funny funny now, I could not spell “bird”. This was a big thing. I couldn’t spell very well, and I spelled “bird” with a U instead of an I. And it was a couple other words, there were only like 10 words and I think I only got four right. That was were they declared that I needed to go back to first grade because I couldn’t spell the basic words. And I’ll never ever forget how to spell “bird”. I didn’t from that day forward.

HL: So if you think about high school, uhm, like if you think about me in high school, would you say that activities that boys and girls did then are the same now? Like were girls also playing sports…boys and girls doing the same things? Or would you say the activities that the genders did in high school were a bit different when you were there?

IS: Maybe a little different but not much because it’s still a lot of the same sports. Uhm… of course there’s more available now for male and female to do I believe as far as things that are included in school that weren’t back then like wrestling and other things but it was pretty much the same. I feel that even then the females had just as much opportunity to play any sport that they wanted to uhm in high school.

HL: Okay. In your high school, would you say there was, growing up and going to high school in Virginia, would you say there was any racial tension in your high school, or were there even a lot of races represented in your high school?

IS: There was a lot represented at my school at Fort Defiance. Uhm.. I don’t think there was a lot of race issues. I feel like now there’s a lot more of… I guess brought to the forefront of discrimination. Uhm Im sure then and maybe me as a teenager didn’t realize, especially as a white female, that there was much discrimination towards blacks or the asians or people from other countries. But I feel today it’s…It’s even worse than it was 80s, which is sad.

HL: The discrimination is worse now?

IS: That it’s grown to be…Well that it seems worse or that it’s…I don’t know what the word is to use.

HL: Do you think that it’s worse with the kids in the high schools or their parents and grandparents?

IS: I believe it’s the older generation that have made it worse because it’s not the children really because it’s true that ya know if we don’t teach color difference or difference to our children and grandchildren then they don’t know to discriminate or learn to discriminate. I think they learn that more so from their parent or grandparents to discriminate or separate because you could put any little black and girl or vise versa together and they’d play fine and never even say…think anything different of the color of their skin. It’s a friend, somebody to play with. You don’t care, so that’s something I feel through any generation has just been taught.

HL:  So, uh, finishing up on high school what would you day was expected of girl and especially you after high school from parents or grandparents or teachers. Were you expected to go to college, get a job, stay home…?

IS: It was hopeful to go to college. Of course for me things changed very quickly when I became pregnant with my oldest child uhm in my senior year. Well actually end of my junior year. She as born in October.

HL: Of your senior year?

IS: Of my senior year at the start of school, so that certainly changed the events of my life there forward. And the only regret I’ve ever ever had through all of this is that I didn’t go on and go to college as suggested by my father. Though it would have been hard.

HL: So what were the other girls, like your friends, what were they doing after high school? Did you have any friend that also had kids or were they going to college? What were they doing?

IS: Uhm…I had some that were going to college, some were just planning on getting out in the world and going to work. Uhm working towards getting out on their own that they wanted. I didn’t really have any close friends at the time that had had a child or was going to have a child…

HL: That doesn’t sound…

IS: So then I graduated and got married three days later.

[we laugh because it was a funny moment to think about]

[I made some weird verbal words trying to find my train of thought]

HL: So did you move in with [her husband] when you got married or were you living in separate places?

IS: I was already living with [her husband and his mom].

HS: In high school?

IS: mmhmm

HL: Okay, so how was homelife with [her husband and her daughter]? Like was it mostly the gendered roles like did you take care of the house and mom, while he was working? What was that homelife like?

IS: Uhm…he was working, and I did too after getting out of school, but I didn’t work before, as I wanted to graduate, and I did. Then I did go to work shortly after once I found a job.

HL: And what was that first job? Could you describe it?

[in the next answer my dog decides to go outside, so that’s’ the noise]

IS: Uhm…well actually I did work some while pregnant and before I got out school, but then it became too hard for me. I worked at a place called “stop-in” in Verona. That was a convenience store/ uhm they made for for delivery and to put into other convenience stores. So most days I worked making up sandwiches and side salads… things to be put into the other convenience stores for sale. But then, uhm, they were working me way too many hours, and the doctor said it wasn’t good for me ot the baby, so I stopped until after she was born. Then I got a job at uh Sears Surplus store in the mall that I loved. Went there as a cashier [and] worked my way up to shipping clerk, and then shipping supervisor, and then as a part-time night manager within two years. I was very proud of that at that young age, but then they went out of business, and I had to give it up.

HL: So when did you…I already know… but I know you worked as a guard. Was it in jail or prison?

IS: Yes, maximum security prison in Craigsville, Virginia.

HL: So how was that job?

[she had mumbled a comment to herself about the name of the prison]

IS: That was one of the toughest I ever had.

HL: For what reasons?

[she does get emotional in this next portion]

IS: Uhm… it was very stressful, life threatening. You had to constantly be on your toes.

HL: Do you feel you were ever treated differently than male guards there by other guards or by prisoners. Were you only dealing with female prisoners…?

IS: No they were male.

HL: They were all male?

IS: It was very different. Much harder for a female in that environment. Not only from the inmates but also from high up authority. Sergeants and captains. Not my captain but my sergeants and lieutenants. Uhm they also could be disrespectful and sexist towards female officers. Of course the inmates it was constant.. Uhm… things being said and done that were very inappropriate, but it was much harder on a female versus a male correctional officer ‘cause the larger majority of the inmates were interested in females. So having a female just to look at or talk trash to are the nicest words I can use; uh it was a hard environment. It was very very stressful and depressing, so you were in jail with them all day.

HL: How would your supervisors [extra mumbling] displaying that you were a woman, you were lower than them. Were they being discriminatory to you… was it verbal or physical?

IS: Well…it was somewhat verbal, but there were some sergeants and ones that weren’t as reputable as they should’ve been and respectful to women. Uhm they didn’t take things serious enough as far as when you did report issues of things being said or done inappropriately. Uh I feel like they didn’t take it serious enough. That kinda like uh it kinda just comes with the territory because you’re a woman working in a prison, but I think they could’ve done better in a lot of those ways of how things were handled and being more respectful towards women in that field; knowing it was very difficult for them to deal with all the sexual harassment from the inmates alone that you didn’t need added pressure from your Sergeant or Lieutenant that also sometimes would say inappropriate or… especially for me knowing that I was married I had to literally put someone in their place strongly and say “enough’s enough. I’m happily married. You need to stop.” So he did because I think he thought and realized that I may take it to the Captain, which ya know could’ve turn into some reprimand for him as my superior.

HL: So how long did you work there?

IS: 5 years. A very long five years from 1988…, which was funny I started there on April fools day 1988, and actually when I first went there I was what was call the commissary. It was like a cashiering clerk position, which I had experience of course from Sears. But uhm, within a few months I thought “Well shoot if I’ve got to deal with the inmates daily…”, which I didn’t realize to the degree until you’re inside a prison how much you really walk and talk with them everyday. You have those scenes of a movie where they’re always behind locked bars or in their cells, but that’s not the true story of a real prison. So I decided to go for officer, and I got approved for it and became an officer a few months after that. I left in November of 1992.

HL: So once you had both your children and you were working jobs, whatever they may be, how did your home life change while both parents were working?

IS: Well it was difficult. Especially I think for moms because you know you have all the duties of household and the cooking and the cleabig and the homework with the kids. Plus working your full time job. There were several times I worked two jobs, through raising my daughters. The need was there for extra income, and I was the one that always stepped up and did that. And so it was difficult to balance all those tasks and hours and also try to have quality time with my kids and husband.

HL: Okay so the last thing, because I’m very interested by this, is I want to know what made you take the leap and go to college later in life and why you chose to study what you did?

IS: One of the main reasons was uhm the Trade Act Agreement, which my folks don’t know much about that today even though it’s still in affect. Uhm the Trade Act Agreement had come in affect I think just a few years prior to uh me taking it in 2010, and it was the result of my job being sent to Mexico, and I was being downgraded in my job. Then my job got eliminated, so I was eligible for the Trade Act program, which gave me $10,000 to go back to college and get a different degree, which I was thankful for to get out of manufacturing. Mainly because that was the second I had within about ten years that had gone away. Uhm… companies were going out of business or moving to Mexico or China and other places were it was much much cheaper labor. I was told my job, which was through American Safety Razor, at that time that went to Mexico; I was making about $16 an hour, but over there they were making $15 a day to do the exact same job. So in the balance of lower wages but the expense of shipping the product back to the US was still cheaper than paying me to do it 8 hours a day at the hourly rate. That’s why a lot of companies took their business to these other countries, unfortunately, because of the very low wages and the cheaper much cheaper cost to produce their products.

HL: So are you working in what you went to college for now?

IS: Well when I went to college, like I said why I selected what I did it was limited as to what I could do. It had to be something I could get a degree in within two years, which was all that was allowed, and a cost of $10,000. So, when I sat down with my representative through the VEC [Virginia Employment Commision], we looked at different option. Also, one that that helped me decide to get the degree in accounting [was] that we looked at jobs in this area that were high demand. Uh, that was one that was in high demand in Virginia and a higher pay rate, which I wanted to try and get myself back close to where I was. Uhm..and so I went for the accounting. I always like working with numbers, and actually many people don’t know it but my mother and father both also had a degree in accounting. I didn’t even know until many years later that my father had that same degree. When I graduates, that’s when he told me. I didn’t even know it, but I knew my mother did. I also had minored in business management thinking in my mind “maybe in some day or down the road I could have my own accounting business or something or manage.” Ya know? So…but that degree has definitely helped me get to where I am now as a manager with Kroger uhm… because without that degree I wouldn’t have qualified. So, I’m very thankful that I made I through that tough time of college in my 40s. Uhm… it wasn’t easy to go back to school some 25 years later almost when I graduated high school, but I pushed and pushed and made it through, through everything that happened during that time.

END

Overall I am happy with how the interview went. I felt the interview flowed as well as possible. We only ran into some trouble with the emotional topics in the interview. I found it very helpful to have my questions already with me and prepared. We went off topic a few times, but we ended up still getting some great information.