- Overview: This interview was conducted with one of my coworkers, Jeff Greendyk. I interviewed him over the phone using an Iphone app called “TapeACall”. This app seemed to work very well. It was incredibly easy to operate and made recording over the phone exceptionally easy. My Interviewee was very knowledgable about the subject thanks to his nearly 30 years of Fly Fishing and his connections in the industry.
- Biography: My Interviewee was Jeff Greendyk. Jeff has been Fly fishing since he was ten years old and has worked with the Orvis Company for nearly 13. Jeff has worked in many store locations and has traveled to Fishing Manager meeting accross the USA. This allows him to stay in contact with many of the other employees in the company.
- Research: Prior to my interview I did some research regarding the changes in fly fishing over the last century. However, most of my knowledge in this topic came from first hand experiences. I have worked with The Orvis Company for two years now and in my time there i have come to meet many of our “regular” customers and heard first hand from many of them about their experiences fly fishing. Many of them have been fly fishing for more than fifty years and have seen lots of change. Prior to the interview I also watched a documentary called “A Kinetic Loop”. This Documentary took an in depth look at some of the changes thats are occurring in Fly Fishing. I also read an article in BlueRidge Outdoors that was called “Fly Females: Six Women who are Revolutionizing the World of Fly Fishing”.
Interviewer: Andy Slawson -AS
Interviewee: Jeff Greendyk -JG
Tanscription of the Interview:
*Certain grammatical errors have been corrected in this transcription to help it make more sense*
AS: Are you okay if this is like a public interview or do you want it to be kept private?
JG: yeah, I’m okay with it being public
AS: Okay cool. Alright so can you start off by introducing yourself and telling me a little bit about yourself and how fly fishing has impacted your life, Just, kind of your back story a little bit?
JG: Yeah absolutely, um, I’m Jeff greendyk I’m the fishing manager of the Orvis store in Charlottesville Virginia. Um, Basically, I mean, fly fishing is my career, it has more than impacted my life. You know I have been doing it since I was a little kid, I’ve been doing since I was about 10. You know, when I’m not working, I’m usually either fishing or thinking about fishing. So, uh, yeah, it’s kind of become all-consuming to my life.
AS: alright so your pretty much said when you started fly fishing but when did you first start working in the fly fishing industry?
JG: I started uh when I was about age 22 or so, I started working for the Orvis store in uh, well now we call it short pump.
AS: when you first started fly fishing, like before you got a job and everything, did you notice anything about the people that you were fishing with?
JG: yeah, not really the people I was fishing with because at the time I wasn’t really fishing with around other fly fishers all that much. Um, but when I was in fly shops or when I was around other fly fishers, they were generally honestly, uh, older white men, that’s just what they were. Um you know, not a lot of kids. There were two kids who I did have quite a bit of contact with who happen to own a fly shop now so it’s cool to see them grow up and go through the industry also.
AS: yeah definitely, um, so when you first started were there any women fishing? Did you know of any or had you heard of any?
JG: I didn’t know any, I knew of one, and that was Joan Wulff who is a legend in the industry. Biggest reason I knew of her was because my dad bought his first fly rod from her at her parents tackle shop back in New Jersey.
As: Wow he bought it straight from her?
JG: He’s fairly certain of he remembers correctly that it was from Joan when she was, I don’t remember what her maiden name was, but he knows that like his first dog he ever had, a beagle, came from her shop also.
AS: wow that’s cool. Has he ever told you any stories about like whether it was weird for her or anything like that, did anyone look down on her as a fly fisherman because she was a woman?
JG: not at all, then again, my dad, my dad doesn’t judge ever, um, and just I think that if he had told me stories he might have been thinking he was teaching me to judge so even if he had known some he probably wouldn’t have told me. Um, you know that was my dad growing up, you know don’t judge, never look at anyone for any reason other than they’re doing what they do.
- Nice, alright so when you got a little older and you started working at Orvis had the customer base changed at all from when you were younger and you were just going into the shops.
JG: it was, I mean it had changed a little bit, you know there were a few more women you know, at least that I noticed, you know because I’m older and in the shop a lot more, the customer base was still predominantly still older white men, um, basically men getting close to retirement or getting to that age. But the other big group was older to mid 20s. Generally it was guys but you know I had several women also. Why they were doing it, whether they were following their boyfriends or not, I don’t know.
AS: right, what about any employees you worked with. Were there any women who were specifically working in the fly fishing part of Orvis. I know now we obviously have more people now but what about back then?
JG: Uh no, I mean it was a boy’s game, there was one fishing manager that I knew of that was a woman back then but you know it was a boy’s game.
AS: so, if you had to give me an overall description of how fly fishing or the fly fishing industry has changed over time. It doesn’t have to be specifically about women just any changes you’ve seen.
JG: I’ve seen its gotten a lot easier to get into. I think Orvis has been a big part of that but I think everyone has, with just getting more people into the sport. Um, they’ve made the gear easier to understand, they’ve tried to get rid of some of the challenging parts of the sport that are not necessarily needed to be a challenge. Fly choice will always be a challenge, I always tell people I’m still learning how to choose the right fly because there are still days when I do it completely wrong. Um, but, you know, they’ve just done a lot to make it easier. They’ve also done a lot to make it seem less like a rich person sport and more of an everybody sport, which I have been really happy to see.
AS: so, do you think then that Orvis with their classes and just how much easier it is to get into it do you think that could’ve been something leading the way for younger people and more women to get into the sport?
JG: That was a help. I think for younger people I think it was social media. You know I think for younger crowds seeing these cool pictures being put up by people who are fly fishing, um, it gives them inspiration to think “oh I can go do this” and you know when you get one or two of them then they bring their friends and it just kind of expands it greatly.
AS: yeah, like an exponential growth?
JG: yeah it you know, I can tell you, I remember you when you were a kid coming into my shop, just watching how many of your friends now are doing it, because of you. Um, and watching it the same I’ve got another kid in the Richmond store who I watched the exact same thing happen. And I’m proud of you guys for watching you guys grow up with that.
AS: well you guys were helping along the way.
JG: yeah well, you’ve gotta pay it back, someone did it for me so.
AS: yep, well do you remember anything specific other than what we’ve been talking about that would’ve maybe brought more female anglers into the world of fly fishing? I know earlier you were talking about Joan Wulff as kind of a stand out leader.
JG: She was, she is for the older generations, for the new generation there are a lot of women who have become the stand out. But the one that kind of started it all in my opinion or the first one I noticed was April Vokey. I remember watching April Vokey on the fishing channel oh probably 15 years ago on a show called fly max and I think she, you now, helped to push women in and, you know ,now you have Rebecca red and just so many others. They’re showing women you can do this. You can still be a girly girl and be a fishing person. And I think that They’re going to be the catalyst.
As: So, social media helping again.
JG: yeah social media, it’s the way of this world, it’s the way of the modern world, and I think that were going to see an explosion in the next ten years as soon as some companies start kind of getting the idea. Nobody has quite figured out how to work the women’s market yet. I know Orvis has tried, I watched it go down in flames. Oh, I remember when it went down in flames, oh that was a bad idea. They came out with new pack colors that were in pinks and purple.
AS: oh, yeah that probably just made more segregation than a community
JG: yeah exactly, and I can tell working in the industry that there are women out there who want that segregation but most don’t. most just want to be a fishing person.
AS: right, yeah one thing that made me think of, I know now we sell the waders that are specifically for women but, um, do you remember when you started working for Orvis did they have that available?
JG: There were women waders, they were basically just smaller sizes for men, they weren’t really cut for women. I remember when we went through the whole process of designing the women’s waders and they got I think about 30 women up at corporate office to use just for fitting. I remember the video they sent us it always makes me laugh. They used Chrissy Penn, I don’t know her name since she has been married but they filmed her getting fitted, and the look on her face was hilarious because she was so uncomfortable with the camera on her, but she was and still is one of the leads for fly fishing women for Orvis. She has never put a social media presence out there because she doesn’t see a need to apparently.
AS: well then, I’ve only got one more question for you then, so earlier I had asked about whether you have worked with any women at Orvis in the fly fishing department in the start of your career, but what about today?
JG: I’ve done quite a few but honestly, I can’t remember all their names because there have been that many.
AS: wow so quite a large change then.
JG: yeah large growth, you can take for example Mary in charlotte. She might now be a store manager, she used to be a fishing manager. You can take Caitlyn Groundwater who used to be at Woodbridge and is now managing a lodge out in Montana.
AS: wow okay
JG: You know, so, you know, there are quite a few and those are two that worked very closely with and have contact with regularly.
AS: Awesome well thanks for your time
JG: Not a problem man.
Overview: I think that the interview process went really well. The Iphone app made the recording process much easier than i had expected it to be. I feel like i got some good information but that it might have been a little bit more in depth if i had asked more follow up questions and was less afraid to stray from my pre-written questions.
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