Oral History Interview—Segregation in the mid to late 1990’s

A. I conducted my interview with my Granddad over FaceTime and recorded it on GarageBand, because I have not been home since winter break to see him. I didn’t edit it because I am not technologically savvy at all and do not have the capabilities to do so. I went into my suite and called my family on FaceTime because they were all together at my house back home. I was very nervous that it would be difficult to hear my recording, given that I am so bad at technology, but I think in the end it turned out pretty well. Since my Granddad has Alzheimer’s, my mom stood by to supervise the interview and help make sure it was going smoothly. My mom cut in at one point to help get him back on track. Granddad talks a lot so it was hard to get my questions in at times and I think that was my biggest obstacle in the interview process, besides my technology struggles. Overall, however, I think my interview was successful.

B. My Granddad’s name is Raymond Michael Keating. He was born January 17, 1931 in Pittston, Pennsylvania. He went into the Air Force after going to Georgetown undergrad then went to law school at night, then worked as a prosecutor and finally opened his own practice. About a year ago, Granddad was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s and it has been one of the hardest things my family has ever had to cope with. That aside, my Granddad is one of the smartest, most cultured people I know.

C. I focus on segregation in the mid to late 1900’s during my interview. Granddad talks a lot about different situations that occurred in D.C. or the greater D.C. area. African Americans have been a significant part of Washington, DC’s civic life and identity since the city was first declared the new national capital in 1791. In 1957, Washington’s African American population was more than 50 percent, making it the first predominantly black major city in the nation, and leading a nationwide trend. The 1963 March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom brought more than 250,000 people to the Lincoln Memorial, which we briefly touch on in the interview. The assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr., on April 4, 1968, triggered immediate and intense reactions throughout the nation and the city. During the 1968 riots, when buildings were burned and destroyed, many African Americans rebelled against continued racism, injustice, and the federal government’s abandonment of the city.

McQuirter, Marya Annette. “Www.culturaltourism.org.” A Brief History Of African Americans In Washington, DC. DonorCommunity, 2017. Web. 26 Mar. 2017.

Naacp, Alan Locke, L.W. Washington, Fred Knollenberg, Clifford Kennedy Berryman, Gordon Parks, Nathan Margold, Eleanor Roosevelt, Charles Hamilton Houston, Thurgood Marshall, and Lillian Johnson. “The Civil Rights Act of 1964: A Long Struggle for FreedomThe Segregation Era (1900–1939).” The Segregation Era (1900–1939) – The Civil Rights Act of 1964: A Long Struggle for Freedom | Exhibitions – Library of Congress. N.p., 10 Oct. 2014. Web. 26 Mar. 2017.

D.
Casey: So Granddad, what were some specific circumstances of segregation when you were in the air force? Did you encounter any segregation?

Ray Keating: Yeah, I was in the D.C. international guard and we were called to active duty for the anticipated trouble and we had briefings before the event. We had headquarters on Connecticut avenue…a friend and I decided we’d go down to the Lincoln memorial and see what was going on. There were some incidents, but the black people were so well disciplined there was no trouble at all from the blacks. Larry and I, both white, were walking down Constitution avenue with all black people…we walked to the Lincoln memorial…King’s speech, we could see it. We stayed on Constitution avenue, we didn’t go all the way over among the crowd that assembled near Dr. King’s speech. We could hear it though. We stayed there for a while…then we just wandered on back to our command post. So, yeah, there were some incidents from the Ku Klux Klan. There were people coming around in monkey suits and things like that.

Casey: Woah.

Ray Keating: But they were taken away right away by the police and the guard just stood ready to aid the police, that’s what we’re there for. But we actually didn’t have to get involved with anybody at all…It was kind of interesting because it was very historic. Yeah, anyhow, that’s about it.

Casey: Okay, so there wasn’t much then?…There wasn’t much segregation that you noticed within the Airforce?

Ray Keating: Within the Airforce? No.

Casey: Just outside of it?

Ray Keating: Yeah. You mean segregation within the Airforce itself?

Casey: Yes, within it.

Ray Keating: Well, we didn’t have any segregation in our unit. It would vary from place to place I suppose. Army International Guard in Tennessee might be different.

Casey: Yeah that’s true, depending on the state.

*Mom cuts in*: Why don’t you tell Casey about when you were working at the lunch counter and black people were not allowed to sit…

Ray Keating: Oh! Oh sure. We moved down here in ’63 from Pittston, Pennsylvania…Oh, no 1943, I was 12 years old, anyhow, it was different for us in Falls Church had black people…they’d live in a certain section. But we got to know some of them. I was down there visiting my father before we moved down there in 1943, I worked in an ice house…my dad would be working during the day and I would be working with him…some black people would come get ice. One black guy…had a big car full of kids, he’d come in and get his ice, so there was never any problem. There was even a black doctor in town, a lot of white people went to him for service. He had a good reputation…I would go to school in D.C. because the schools were better…sometimes I would take the bus…I like to sit in the back of the bus, where all the black people sat…

Casey: How did they respond to that? Were they okay with you sitting back there?

Ray Keating: Oh yes they were fine. No problem with the black people. But the bus driver was bigoted, and he’d say, “hey boy, what you doing back there? You can’t back there get up here.”…We’d see that stuff once in a while. And then I worked at People’s drug store at the soda fountain, making sandwiches and all. The black people could come in and buy stuff but they couldn’t sit at the soda fountain, they’d go down to the end of the fountain and make their order…Going into D.C., the school I went to, I guess you might say segregated…

Casey: Georgetown?

Ray Keating: I’m talking about high school. Nanny and I went to the same high school in Washington…got my high school diploma, then just down the road to Georgetown, and law school and everything else. I didn’t see many problems. Now, in the Air Force itself I think they were discriminated against. In the air guard, black people, getting out of the Air Force like myself, wanted to become a member of the guard, and they would find some reason not to let them in.

Casey: Would they make excuses that weren’t related to that?
Ray Keating: Well, they would find some way of not processing the application. That was in 1957…D.C. was segregated. They had Dunbar and a couple of other black high schools, and then all the others were white. Sometimes there was a school that had a lot of Jewish students…(gets off topic)

Casey: Another question I had was, did you have any friends that were different races? Did you have any friends that were African-American?

Ray Keating: No, never got close to African-Americans back then. We were segregated by different schools and all, so we just never came into contact. But there was never any problem at all, for example, I liked music…there were good black performers. We [friends] would drive into what is now a really black area, parked the car, go into the arena…nobody ever bothered us, we were pretty much welcomed, even over in the heavy black areas where we hear jazz music. It really was very segregated in my high school days…In Georgetown, we didn’t have many black students, but they weren’t segregated.

Casey: So the high schools were segregated but the colleges weren’t?

Ray Keating: Yes, well some colleges were. Maybe the University of Virginia, for example…But Georgetown was not. We had some black students, I guess there just weren’t that many black people going to college. Just couldn’t afford it or something…