a. Due to the sensitivity of my topic, I began my process by messaging Loli through my cell phone and explained to her that my oral history class called for a social change project on a number of topics, including gender, and that she popped in my head. I nicely asked if she would be interested in answering some questions about her changing way of life, and I continually reiterated that her level of comfort was the prime concern and that she could withdraw from the project at any time or refuse to answer any of the questions. Loli texted me back quickly and seemed very excited to share her story! I followed up by asking which method of communication she would prefer to share her story in, and we agreed on answering questions through email. I was alone in my dorm room for a little over an hour while I was preparing the interview questions. My main obstacle during this process was deciding which questions to ask. Were they appropriate? Too personal? Too broad?Am I asking the right ones? So, I compiled a list of 21 questions but typed up a paragraph at the beginning clarifying that she could answer or not answer any of the questions, and that she could add any information that she feels like she should share that I didn’t ask about. This way, I was giving Loli the freedom to share any part of her courageous story as she pleased.
b. Loli Dorner-Leese was born Bernardo Dornor-Leese in 2001, to Marcelo and Ana Maria Dorner-Leese. She is the youngest of two children, the oldest being 18 year-old Martina Dorner-Leese. The whole family is of Uruguayan decent and speak Spanish in the house, therefore, Spanish is Loli’s first language. Loli wrote her own biography while answering the interview questions, so the rest of her biography can be referred to there.
c. My topic of gender covers the perspective of the ever-growing group of individuals that fall under the LGBTQIA (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transsexual, Queer, Intersex, Asexual) categories. Gender could mean biological sex, sex-based social structures, and gender identity. For my interview, I would say that all of those subtopics were touched on during the interview process in some way or another. My interviewee is transgender, which is defined as less of a clinical term, referring more to gender identity and gender expression than to sexual orientation or physical sex characteristics. It is also a more general and inclusive term: a transgender person may be gay, transsexual, transvestite, or even gender-queer. I also attended a lecture hosted by Justin Lee on March 23rd, 2017, and there I learned that the transgender community is one of the most ignored because their situation is not completely understood by society yet. My interviewee is also in his youth, which makes the situation a lot more sensitive because he could actually begin going through puberty as a woman before going through it as a man. Upon doing research, I was glad to find that almost every sub-community in or associated with the LGBTQIA had a website, association, or foundation. For example, in my interviewees case, there is even a Trans Youth Equality Foundation website that is available for transgender children and their families. (2017). Trans Youth Equality Foundation. Retrieved from http://www.transyouthequality.org/.
Below are the questions that I emailed to Loli and the responses that she emailed back. Due to the interviewee not being completely comfortable with face/voice interview, Professor McCleary granted me special permission to solely conduct an email-questionnaire interview.
Questions for Oral History Project
Because you are underage, please ask your parents if it okay for you to continue with this project, I will understand! Also, if you are uncomfortable with any of the questions, it is always an option to not answer them. And, if you feel like there’s something that you would like to say but I didn’t ask, feel free to write absolutely anything at the end of all the questions! Thank you so much for being so amazing to help me!
ME: 1. Please include full name and a bit of a description of your background.
LOLI: My name is Bernardo Dorner-Lees as of right now. I do plan on changing it to a more feminine name soon, as of today I do go by Loli at home, and other close friends. I am 16 and go to an art school called Governor school for arts. And I plan on documenting my life and creating a feature film about my life in the following 2 to three years.
ME: 2. How do you define “transgender”?
LOLI: I define transgender as a person who identifies personally as the opposite gender that does not correspond to their biological sex they were assigned at birth.
ME: 3. At what age did you realize you were transgender?
LOLI: I was 13 when I realized I was transgender, and it was at the end of my 7th grade year.
ME: 4. What has been the hardest part about the process? The easiest?
LOLI: The hardest part of realizing I was transgender was probably accepting it. I was definitely in denial. I really couldn’t accept it. I knew there was something strange going on with me but I never knew that there was a word for what I was feeling. Once I found out that there was other people like myself I honestly didn’t want to transition. These women had these masculine features and I knew I didn’t want to be interpreted and viewed as a “man dressed as a women”. I didn’t know that something like this would be possible and when I did, I just knew it wasn’t going to be possible. Transiting was a dream for me that I couldn’t mention to anyone. My worst fears was having to be sent to some mental institution and have people poke into my brain. I didn’t want to be known as a freak, or ashamed by my family. Growing up with two religious parents, you automatically know it’s not going to be easy. So I tried my best to push it aside and set these expectations for myself and to try and live like a man. At times suicide felt like the only way out. I wouldn’t have to explain myself to anyone. I wouldn’t have to transition, which meant coming out, going through surgery, changing my name, etc. Eventually I came to terms with it and the rest was easy. I realized that I had to make due with what you have and try to live your life as comfortably as possible and I knew that meant transitioning in my case. After I came to terms with myself, everything else is easy because now I had a direction as to where I was headed and what my future looked like. I found myself and nobody could tell me other wise. Others say coming out to your parents is the hardest. Don’t get me wrong it was definitely hard but it definitely wasn’t the hardest. I know whether or not they accepted me, I knew who I was and I knew I was going to find a way to transition with or without them. Thankfully I had the opportunity to stay home and home school myself, and try to figure out a plan. Most of my ideas were unrealistic, plus I was 14 and fantasying about my transition, but I managed and I came out to my parents, go on t-blockers, and dealt with everything as they came.
ME: 5. Is/was there anything that surprised/shocked you about the transgender process?
LOLI: Something that surprised me in the beginning is that there was women, who were really passable ( Passable – a word that means, being able to pass as a cisgender ( cisgender is a term for people whose gender identity matches the sex that they were assigned at birth.) women) and that there was other trans girls like myself living normal lives as everyday people. Usually when you ask someone what a trans person looks like they tend to say somewhere along the lines of a man in women’s clothing, or really feminine man with masculine features. Now with advanced studies and better technology, trans men and women are beginning to get help early like myself and pause puberty before it does irreversible changes to our bodies that would have to be corrected with surgery and other cosmetic procedures. I’m just happy to be fortunate enough to not have to wait till I’m eighteen to transition and be able to live a life where I’m a comfortable, functioning, and passing trans women of today’s society.
ME: 6. What is the transgender community like?
LOLI: My best interpretation of the trans community is probably really concealed. Most trans people try to keep a low profile, and try to live a normal life. Most of us pretend to be cis women because we hate having to be labeled as transgender which is usually interpreted as a boy who looks like a girl by many individuals. We were never boys to begin with, so why should we be seen and treated as men. as Then we move along to those who are openly transgender, and share it with everyone on things like social media: youtube, Instagram, twitter, etc. These transpeople are the ones we see and aren’t hidden. I fall under the category of a more private trans person. The less people who know, the better, in my case.
ME: 7. What were the reactions of your friends/family?
LOLI: In the beginning it was kinda hard on my parents. They thought it was a phase, thought it was really unnatural to think this way, thought I was spending too much time on the internet, watching too much tv, etc. My sister once described it as me asking for more attention. There was a lot of yelling, slamming doors, and overall chaos. With time, it slowly became everyone’s reality. Transitioning isn’t just a physical transition, its a social one as well. It takes time for everyone to be on the same page and start accepting the person transitioning. Even for families who are accepting from the begging, its still a difficult process. I’m lucky to not only have two loving parents who accept me, but a sister and a bunch of family back in South America who do as well. There’s still a lot to be said and done but, i’m a point in my transition where I’m farther away from the starting line and closer to the finish.
ME: 8. Have you chosen a new identity? If so, who?
LOLI: I identify as female and I am going through the process of changing my name socially and legally. I haven’t decided on a full name but I have decided on a nickname that I go by. I chose Loli and Lola. It’s really personal to me because growing up my family has always called me Lolo and so I felt more comfortable changing Lolo into a more feminine name like Lola or Loli, instead of making Bernardo, which is the name I go by at school and in most places, into a feminine name.
ME: 9. Do you feel that your school/community is accepting?
LOLI:Unfortunately I am not out in my school, due to my safety and comfort. Theres a couple of reason I’ve been hiding my transition from everyone. The first one being I wanted more time to think about my decisions on transitioning, and just take my time with my transition. I didn’t want to feel pressured into rushing into my transition, and quickly change my name, change my appearance, and just go all out. I wanted to slowly change so it would be this crazy unexcited thing. As of right now Im taking this medication called spironolactone. Essentially a puberty blocker that blocks testosterone. It’s been almost a year on that and I can see a lot of changes physically and mentally, and so can some classmates/individuals I go to school with. I’ve had a couple of people come up and ask me if I was a boy or a girl. My other reasoning for not coming out would also be, its no ones business. School for myself isn’t a place to show up to school and express myself through clothing and makeup. School is a place to learn and get my education. Now I don’t blame those who do show up to school expressing themselves with their clothes, makeup, shoes, etc. because I get to do that in another school where I am openily trans and get to express myself through not only my clothes but through my art. An environment that doesn’t feel like a school but more like my family, my home. Anyways other reasons for not transitioning in school is, I honestly think my school isn’t the most accepting. Even if theres more people who accept me, theres always going to be that group of people who are going to despise me, disgusted, threatened, etc. I just don’t need that much attention whether it be good or bad in a place I’m going to learn and not socialize. Now when it’s time to take estrogen and I experience female puberty, then I guess I’ll have to learn to life with the negativity but I’m sure when the time comes I’ll be more stronger and prepared.
ME: 10. Have you faced any discrimination?
LOLI: I cant really think of any times I’ve been discriminated. I cant remember any from the top of my head, but the most recent time was at prom. I was walking into governor school prom ( Art school that I go to ) and I remember hearing someone yell out,” Oh shit thats a boy.” I’m sure this individual didn’t have any intention of being mean or anything but I did find it offensive because the last thing I want to be reminded at prom, a night that I felt beautiful, that I’m a boy. Other times I’ve just been given weird looks or just been starred at for the longest time because I’m out with my friends, wearing feminine appealing clothing and my friends will slip up and call me Bernardo and male pronouns a bunch of times without them noticing, and people will catch on. I’ve flirted with waiters that showed interest in me and their body language will change, and completely be thrown off guard, as soon as they hear my parents use male pronouns and associate me as Bernardo. Thankfully I’ve never experienced discrimination that can mentally and physically hurt me, or potentially traumatize me for life.
ME: 11. Who/what has been the biggest supporter of you during this change?
LOLI: I think my mom is my biggest supporter. Although she was someone who seemed to be completely against me and my transition, she continues to educate herself/others, love and support me, and continues to transition with me. I love that, even though it almost seems impossible for her to wrap her head on any ideas, not even dealing with my transition, she’s always so hard to reason with. She’s defiantly someone who is not use to change and with each generation always changing, it can be a lot for her to understand and get use to, which is completely understandable for anyone. She will always be my favorite person to fight with, laugh with, and cry with. I would always tell her that she’s my best friend and she’s always saying that she’s not, she’s my mom, and the difference between being a mom and a best friend is that, good mothers will never leave, they will always support their child in anything, love their child unconditionally, and you don’t tell your mom everything, but if you had to she would judge you, but instead listen, support, and love you.
ME: 12. Have you been other people of the transgender community?
LOLI: I unfortunately don’t have any transgender friends. I know of two in my high school and I tried being friends with both of them but we had nothing in common and I found both of them kinda annoying not going to lie. I respect that they are apart of the same community as I and that I hope for the best for them and their transition, but I realized i can’t be friends with every trans person and get along with them. I wish I had someone was going through the same thing as me and have other things in common that don’t deal with transition, because trans people are just people. It’s the same thing as being friends with a cis gender male or female. I do have a close friend named Denay and we met through social media and we use to FaceTime time all the time and she’s like really far along on her transition and she would let me know about things she experienced. And we talk about things like boys and her experience dating as a trans women.
ME: 13. What has been your favorite/proudest moment?
LOLI: My proudest moment has to be the time I went to GSA prom in a dress. I remember planning it and trying to make sure that everything was perfect. I knew I needed to do this for myself to kinda open myself up to the idea of telling people. That year I hadn’t been on medication yet and I had promised myself that I wouldn’t ever present myself as female to the public until I was further along in my transition, to save me from being called out as a man in a dress or drag. I honestly didn’t want to be called these things because I was extremely sensitive and just didn’t want it to seem like it was this costume I was putting on for everyone to see. I just wanted to be a normal girl going to prom in a dress. In the beginning I thought I wasn’t going to be able to pull it off, and that my other school that I went to would find out what I did, and I just wasn’t confident enough to do this. Then I built up the courage and said fuck it I’m going to do it because I need this, I need to feel confident and beautiful in my own skin. I then found this gorgeous dress online, bought a wig, and got my makeup done. It couldn’t have gone better. I was so happy for myself for doing that. If it wasn’t for that night I don’t think I would have the guts not to dress as feminine as I do at GSA.
ME: 14. What was your lowest point?
LOLI: My lowest point was probably the first couple of months of coming out to my parents because I had written them a letter and left it on their bed for them to read. It was my first day of high school. My freshman year, and I was terrified of going back to school, keep in mind that I homeschooled myself my 8th grade year. I was going back to school and knowing that I was transgender and not really doing anything about it. I didn’t tell anyone, I just minded my own business, did my work, and went home. I was dealing with everything I went through when I got home. Thank god for GSA because.
ME: 15. Is there anything that you would like people to know about the transgender community?
LOLI: I would like to let everyone know that we are just like everybody else, and people need to start seeing us that way. We don’t need special treatment, we just need your respect. I think it’s best to say that we all deserve to use the same restroom as you and do things as if we were just an everyday cis gender person. We don’t need your sympathy and we don’t need to be reminded that we are transgender. We are just people trying to live our lives comfortable and to our full potential. Our community is not a phase or a chose. We don’t choose to be transgender and to transition, we are just born this way. We don’t transition because we want attention or because we think we’ll look better as the opposite sex, we transition because it helps with our dysphoria and not all of us transition. Being trans doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to transition. Every transition is different and we don’t all want the same things. If theres anything we want is to be accepted and to normalize transpeople.
ME: 16. What changes do you feel could be made (in schools, laws, public areas) to improve the comfort of transgender people?
LOLI: I would want hormones and gender confirming surgeries to be covered by insurance. Our community faces a huge problem with processing hormones illegally and getting surgery done on them in very unsafe places because insurance doesn’t cover it. Most people would think that gender confirming surgeries are cosmetic but they aren’t. These surgeries are helping us with our dysphoria and it should be overviewed as something very serious. Another issue I would like to change is being able to go to the restroom that matches with your gender identity, and not what my licenses or brith certificate says.
ME: 17. What was your biggest fear (if any)?
LOLI: My biggest fear was probably rejection and discrimination. I didn’t want to be rejected by anyone, whether that be my family, friends, those who I go to school with, strangers, etc. I didn’t want to be jected or discriminated for being trans. I know that not everyone is going to like you, but I just didn’t want me being trans be the reason for that hate/disliking of me. I still deal with it today. I’m not out in my school and one of my biggest fears is coming out in high school because the day I do come out I’ll find out who’s accepting and who’s not. I really want to move to a different school before that time comes so I won’t have the knowledge of knowing about those who don’t accept me. It would also be a really hard transition from changing my name, pronouns, and appearance all in one year, and just expect people to easily get it. These people have known me my whole life as Bernardo, and identifying me as male. That way if I move I can just start over and if there is someone who doesn’t accept me, they won’t know my given name, or anything about me they could possibly use against me. I also have a fear of dating someone I really like and being rejected, murdered, or fired from a job because I’m transgender.
ME: 18. What did you look forward to the most?
LOLI: I use to have major anxiety because I really wanted to get on t-blockers really bad so I wouldn’t have to fully develop into a man, so the first thing I looked forward to was the t-blockers. I literally dogged a bullet when blocking male puberty. After taking it all my anxiety went away and now I look forward to starting estrogen and see the effects that has on my body and then after that Im really looking forward for SRS ( Sexual reassignment surgery) which might be the number one thing I’m looking forward to. I know that no matter what genitals I have I’ll always be a women and have always been a women but I’m really looking forward to this surgery for many reasons. I will finally get to be free, have intercourse, wear whatever I want, and be comfortable in my body. I will hopefully have no more dysphoria with my body, and thats what I’m really looking forward to.
ME: 19. Do you feel that the attitudes and behaviors towards transgender people is acceptable? If no, why not?
LOLI: I defiantly think that attitudes towards trans people has changed in over the years. Theres still a lot to work to do which involves educating others about trans people and fighting for our rights. But I am incredibly grateful to be apart of the generation that is noticing more and more trans people. More and more people are being educated on what being transgender means and what it is like to be trans. More and more people are coming out as trans because they feel like they have the right support and safety to do so. Support and safety that not all trans people have and fought to have. I’m glad I get to be apart of this community and fight alongside my community and its issues.
ME: 20. Do you have any regrets?
LOLI: I regret that I want educated on this sooner. I could of transitioned at a younger age and I could of probably been further along in my transition, but rather than that I do t have any regrets. I’m really happy with where I am to and I’m incredibly thankful to my parents for being fortunate enough to have helped me get to where I am today.
ME: 21. Describe how you feel about yourself now.
LOLI: Before transitioning I was defiantly unhappy, completely lost, and very self conscious with my body. Now that I’m transitioning I do see a major difference in my confidence, my attitude, and my anxiety has defiantly decreased. If I feel like this now only taking testosterone blockers, I cant even imagine what I’ll feel when I start estrogen.
d. Although I was not able to conduct a face-to-face interview, I feel like the email-questionnaire went very well, exactly the way that I wanted it to, and let more information about the transgender youth be available to the public. If I could do anything differently, I would have conducted a personal interview so that the true emotion of the subject could be seen/heard. Overall, Loli did a fantastic job of communicating her story and letting more be known about the transgender youth.