Clara Lumpkin Interview, History 150 Spring 2016, Conducted by Amy Antigha, Civil Rights and Social Change, March 12, 2016.
a. This interview was conducted in person and no edits were made to the audio. An audio recorder was used to conduct the interview and a quiet location was prepared; there is a little bit of background noise, however. The interview was set up and scheduled via text messages and phone calls.
b. Clara Lumpkin is a 83 year old Caucasian mother, grandmother, and great grandmother. She married her high school sweetheart and stayed married until his passing in 2014. She was born and raised in Richmond, Virginia where she raised her 4 children with her husband, Robert Lumpkin. They lived in Miami, FL from the mid-50s to the mid-60s for my Granddad to go to college. Her and my granddad attended John Marshall High School in Richmond City and their twin son’s attended Thomas Jefferson High school, also in Richmond city. At the time my grandparents went to school in Richmond, schools were segregated completely but, by the time their children were in school, desegregation laws had been passed. My grandma has seen the transition of Richmond City from a majority white to majority black population.
c. Preliminary research was conducted to help aim the questions for the interview. I watched a PBS documentary on the Black Panther Party and how they were portrayed versus what they actually did. According to the documentary, the Black Panthers were seen as a threat, as anti-white, and were sabotaged and murdered by the FBI when, in reality, they had community outreach programs such as their breakfast program for low income children during the school year and they promoted a sense of pride in black youth. They were not violent towards whites as believed by many people. I also read different history internet pages about massive resistance in Virginia at the time of the Civil Rights Movement such as the authority for the governor to shut down schools that were issued a desegregation order. In my reading, I also found that Dr. MLK visited FL while my grandmother resided there but, it was nowhere near Miami.
Interview Transcript
Amy Antigha: Can you please state your name, where you grew up, and the states that you have lived in?
Clara Lumpkin: Clara Hall Eagles Lumpkin, the state I live in is Virginia, I was born and raised here, I lived in Florida for 8 years—Miami.
AA: Around the time you graduated High School (1950s), Virginia passed several “Massive Resistance” laws to block integration in public schools. For example, the governor was authorized to close any Virginia school facing a desegregation order. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Clara Lumpkin: About the law or?
AA: About the experience about the law or anything related to it.
Clara Lumpkin: It really followed my graduation because I graduated in ‘54 and this was not…I can’t remember whether it just preceded my graduation or just followed it.
AA: Given that schools were segregated when you were growing up, how did you react/what were your feelings when legislature passed the desegregation of schools? Was it shocking or was it just whatever…?
Clara Lumpkin: I didn’t think anything of it, it was like a new experience, I hadn’t experienced it so I didn’t have any particular feeling about it one way or the other
AA: Did you ever see protests or demonstrations? If so, can you describe them?
Clara Lumpkin: I’d never seen a demonstration. Except on TV.
AA: you can describe that if you want.
Clara Lumpkin: Alabama, the mobs, the little girl going into school—I saw all that on TV. But of course that was much later, or at least I think it was. You know time, as old as I am, is hard to keep everything in chronological order.
Amy Antigha: When you moved back to Richmond, how had it changed since you left?
Clara Lumpkin: Routes, Belvidere did not exist across Broad. That was opened up so you were able to have better traffic communication. And other than that, everything seemed pretty much the same.
AA: Can you describe reactions (yours and/or other’s) when African Americans were seen in previously segregated areas such as Bryan Park and Virginia Beach? Was it shocking, worrisome, not a big deal, good, etc.?
Clara Lumpkin: When blacks were seen in these areas? It didn’t faze me, you know I had been out of state for 8 years and I was there for the immigration from Cuba and a lot of people were objecting to Cubans. I had some Cuban friends, I didn’t really pivot around the problem, it was just—what was there was there and I just accepted things as they were and that’s all I can say.
AA: Did you experience social pressure to either contribute to or stay away from the Civil Rights Movement? Did you ever see or hear about White Americans being threatened for trying to help?
Clara Lumpkin: Yeah, as a matter of fact, I do remember when my HS was integrated and the white students that went there, one of them was the chief of police’s daughter, and she was mobbed. She had her head shoved into the toilet, she was attacked, and this spread like wild fire and everybody was saying get your kid out of there because they’re going to attack you. And that’s what happened to her.
AA: What HS did you go to?
Clara Lumpkin: John Marshall High School, and it was a good school. Which they had to tear down. It was too old. [talks about the location John Marshall High School]
Amy Antigha: From what you remember, how was the Black Panther Party portrayed by the media in the 60s and 70s.
Clara Lumpkin: Frankly I didn’t see a whole lot of it but it was not portrayed in the same light as the Klu Klux Klan. It was two separate items and that was one of the things that bothered me because the BP were an aggressive unit. The Klan was an aggressive unit. But yet, it was the Klan that was the only thing you heard anything about. And you don’t hear anything today about the Panthers and the only time you heard anything about them was when they tried to block the voting poll building in Chicago; that hit the news. But other than that that’s the only thing I’ve heard about them but I know they exist and why they don’t portray both I don’t know except that it’s not politically correct.
AA: From what you remember, how was the Klu Klux Klan portrayed by the media?
Clara Lumpkin: Well you always saw marchin’ and you saw of course the cross burning and all those things and they were very prominently put. And you never saw anything about the other side. And there are always two sides to every issue.
AA: In this century, there has been a great amount of fuss over the legalization of gay marriage but in the 20th century interracial marriage was the big social change. In your adulthood (1967), interracial marriage was legalized in Virginia. What can you recall about public and/or personal opinion and reaction to this new law?
Clara Lumpkin: It was in the paper. What do I think about it? How did it affect me?
AA: Just anything about it: public opinion, personal opinion or experience or reactions
Clara Lumpkin: Well you just didn’t know anybody. There was still a lot of, particularly the older generation, just would not here of it you know and I think as generations came on from that…that was a really big issue and it takes time to overcome, even in small steps. I didn’t have any feeling about interracial marriage, first of all I didn’t even think about it, it just wasn’t a thought. And this is ’67? (Thinking aloud about chronological order of events.) I can’t explain how these issues take place but I think the general public kind of set back and said let the legal guys take care of it or do what they’re going to do. I don’t remember any…because it was a non-issue issue, you know, because you didn’t see it, you didn’t run into it anywhere, and you didn’t know anybody who did it. But there was one prominent couple here that you did see in the paper recently who was an interracial couple and I think they’re out in Powhatan County, I can’t remember which county, and it was the boonies at that time. They were married at that time and I don’t know if they had to leave the state or if they did it for their safety, I don’t know. But they came back just recently as a 20-25 year old couple and it was in the paper but I don’t remember anything about the conversation except that they told a story about their earlier years as a couple and difficulties that they took. I know there would have been difficulties because you can’t take people who’ve had one train of thought for jillions of years and change it that quick, it’s just not gonna happen, its slow. As with this couple, after all these years and they’re an older couple, I don’t remember their ages even, but 64 to now, 77 87 97 07, that’s 50 years? So that a long time and I think the couple just came back because they could but anyway that’s the only thing I remember about that issue and I only knew about that just recently well before they came back their story was in the paper. I thought what a really hard time they must’ve had but I don’t know any of the things that might’ve happened to them, or threats, I’m sure they got ‘em. Because even if you were dating, the people who are against it can be very mean and I’m sure they got some stuff dumped, I don’t know what, but I just know there would be people mean enough to do some hateful things.
[Concluding this interview, my grandma told a story of back when areas were being desegregated in Richmond and there was a grocery store that was in a black neighborhood that she liked going to but when she went, she got hateful stares and finally one day after she finished her shopping, she went outside and her tires had been slashed and everyone around said they didn’t see who did it but she remembers one man in particular that glared at her especially mean that day before she went into the store. She said my granddad had to come change the tires so she could get the car home. She said that there was resistance on both ends during this time and neither blacks nor whites wanted the other in their neighborhoods or areas that were predominantly occupied by one race.]
d. I don’t think the interview flowed as well as it could have but I stuck to the script relatively well. I think I could’ve gotten more from the interview if I had given my grandma a list of topics and let her think about it and then talk about those things. After the interview, she had said that when being asked specific questions on the spot, it’s hard to remember everything but if she had broad topics, it would’ve been easier to talk about specific events and stories. For an interview like this, I think better results can be reached if there wasn’t a script but instead, a guide. When discussing social change, it seems easier to talk about it in a conversational manner so if I were to conduct another interview similar to this, I would give a general talking points list to my interviewee and ask reactive questions rather than proactive questions. What I mean by this is that my questions would be based on what the interviewee said. I believe this method would lead to more detail and clarification in what is being shared.